S09.E10: Omega

[Cherokee Rose]

12 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Two people that I don't care about

Oh, I like Alden. (He sings pretty well, too.) Luke adds humor, but no matter how many times they say he's a "survivor"; I don't see that he has any fighting skills. Kind of like a less-cowardly early Eugene.

[Cherokee Rose]

12 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

The Whisperers were creepy in the fog

I agree. They should've kept the whisperers more mysterious for a while. Let the terror grow gradually, as the group learned more about them. Love the graveyard scenes! Maybe had a few appear here and there; and not had the group discover the masks so soon. Or Lydia's story so quickly. I thought they had a great finish to the season, only to, as you say, have the whisperers come right up out in the open. Talk about killing any mystery they managed to create!

[Cherokee Rose]

11 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

I noticed them focusing on the hook

Wasn't the hook what Lydia used to attack Daryl? And, the keys, hanging right in the open elsewhere, were how Henry opened Lydia's cell.

[Cherokee Rose]

23 hours ago, SamBeckett said:

As to the Whisperers, okay, we now know Alpha, and maybe with her history we can see how the Whisperers came about. Maybe I missed it, but I still don’t know what their plan is. Sure, I get “surviving

I think the whisperers may be more of a throw-back to the Wolves, who lived in the wild, and didn't believe people/communities had any place in the new world order. I think the whisperers live out amongst the walkers, and roam where they do. I suspect they despise people in walled communities, as they likely feel that former society has devolved (or evolved, as the wolves felt) into a new "natural" order of the dead. Lydia kept saying how her mom said that they (their group) had to change to be like the current world, and she taught her how things would be from now. Also, they took our groups disguising themselves in emergencies with "guts" for walker protection... to the fullest extreme of always dressing like walkers to survive. Lydia also mentioned that her group took care of the walkers, since the walkers "took care" of them. A symbiotic relationship.

I'd originally thought that big herd off in the distance during the final battle, was a "nod" to the coming whisperers... both their numbers themselves, and how daunting they'd be mixed in with walkers. There also seemed to be a whisperer watching Eugene, Rosita, and Daryl (when they kidnapped Eugene from the Saviors)... which begged the question of how so many years have passed without the group running into the whisperers before.

[Haleth]

Ok, I haven't read the thread yet and I know I shouldn't be posting, but I'm furious.  What the hell is the matter with those people?  They are all too stupid to live!  I'm talking about the group picked up earlier this season, the ones whose names I don't know (the Asian woman, the deaf girl, etc).  Wandering around in the dark, looking for their friend, nearly getting themselves killed.  The Asian one says "let's come back when we have a plan."  Gee, where did I hear that before?  Maybe because Tara said the exact same thing earlier?  Stupid writing, stupid characters.

Henry.  Another one too stupid to live.  Let's tell the feral girl about his home and family.  Let's let her out for some fresh air.  Gah.

While I thought the scenes with Lydia and Daryl were well done, I kept wishing it was Andy Lincoln doing that scene.  Daryl is just not a strong enough character to take over the Rick Grimes role of leader.  He is too much of a sidekick.

Ok, I did read the thread before hitting submit.

About bullets, where would anyone find gunpowder anymore or the ingredients to make it?  The casings are useless without something that will blow up.

[Bryce Lynch]

45 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Ok, I haven't read the thread yet and I know I shouldn't be posting, but I'm furious.  What the hell is the matter with those people?  They are all too stupid to live!  I'm talking about the group picked up earlier this season, the ones whose names I don't know (the Asian woman, the deaf girl, etc).  Wandering around in the dark, looking for their friend, nearly getting themselves killed.  The Asian one says "let's come back when we have a plan."  Gee, where did I hear that before?  Maybe because Tara said the exact same thing earlier?  Stupid writing, stupid characters.

Henry.  Another one too stupid to live.  Let's tell the feral girl about his home and family.  Let's let her out for some fresh air.  Gah.

While I thought the scenes with Lydia and Daryl were well done, I kept wishing it was Andy Lincoln doing that scene.  Daryl is just not a strong enough character to take over the Rick Grimes role of leader.  He is too much of a sidekick.

Ok, I did read the thread before hitting submit.

About bullets, where would anyone find gunpowder anymore or the ingredients to make it?  The casings are useless without something that will blow up.

You would think the ZA would have weeded out all the total moron by now.  How could people this dumb have survived all those years, where one dumb mistake makes you walker chow?

I also mentioned the gunpowder issue.  There would probably be much less of that to be found than complete ammo cartridges.   I have no idea how hard the powder is to produce.  Is it something Eugene could synthesize?   

This made me think what the ZA would be like in Europe or other places where guns and ammo are far, less common.   Heck, the UK has already banned most knives that would be useful in the ZA.  I think they would be bashing walkers in the head with teapots.  :)

[SamBeckett]

53 minutes ago, Haleth said:

While I thought the scenes with Lydia and Daryl were well done, I kept wishing it was Andy Lincoln doing that scene.  Daryl is just not a strong enough character to take over the Rick Grimes role of leader.  He is too much of a sidekick.

Daryl is the less-pretty Sundance Kid to Rick's Butch Cassidy.

I can hear Sundance/Daryl right. He and Butch/Rick are watching a herd that's been following them for days. The herd is closing in.

Sundance/Daryl mutters (something Daryl is good at): "Who are these guys?"

[mightysparrow]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

While I thought the scenes with Lydia and Daryl were well done, I kept wishing it was Andy Lincoln doing that scene.  Daryl is just not a strong enough character to take over the Rick Grimes role of leader.  He is too much of a sidekick.

Norman is a supporting actor; he's not a lead.  Andrew was definitely no Brando but he knew how to stare down a bad guy.  Samantha Morton is a very skilled actor, so maybe she'll carry Norman with her.

[iMonrey]

Quote

To me, the Wolves (remember them?) were the best villain (though there was a little explanation). They were in and out and super-violent, and seemed to be purely evil ... and random.

But I understood the Wolves, and as much as I hated Negan and the Sanctuary, I understood what they were doing. I understood what they were doing at Terminus, and I understood what the Governor was doing. I'm completely baffled by what the hell the Whisperers are doing. And the longer they drag it out the more irritated I'm going to be by them. I don't think they're interesting or compelling just because they're weird and creepy. I just think WTF?

Quote

Two people that I don't care about.  I cared more about the two horses that became walker chow this episode.

Another serious problem with the show. The stakes are really low now because there are literally three people I give a shit about anymore so pretty much anyone else can die and I just won't care. Am I supposed to care what happens to Alden and Luke? The former has barely been a character and the latter we met like 2 minutes ago. 

I think the show has really over-estimated my interest in some of these new and marginal characters.

[Lady Iris]

Wasn't Lydia basically saying that their group has wiped out other groups because the civilized groups don't belong in the world now? That seems like a nasty threat to deal with in the upcoming eps.

For a moment it was nice to be old school Walking Dead creeped out by the corpse in the flashback since those people didn't know at the time about turning into a walker without the benefit of a direct bite by one. Reminded me of the old days.

I got my fingers crossed that Daryl is up to the task of doing more than grunting a few words here and there as per the past few seasons.

And for the elebenty billionth time, multiple years after the ZA how are batteries working in flashlights? Just how?

[iMonrey]

Quote

Wasn't Lydia basically saying that their group has wiped out other groups because the civilized groups don't belong in the world now? That seems like a nasty threat to deal with in the upcoming eps.

She didn't actually say that but what we've learned so far does imply that. However, how exactly are the Whisperers wiping out other groups? I theorized last week that maybe by putting on their skins they are somehow able to drive herds towards various settlements. That seemed to be what they were doing when Daryl et. al. were trying to divert the direction of a herd last week.

On the other hand, when Jesus and Aaron were watching a group of them in the prior episode, they were just milling around in a field without going anywhere. Even they were like WTF?

It also seems unlikely these Whisperers can outnumber and outgun the combined three communities we know of. And if they can it's just going to be a rerun of the war against the Saviors. Been there, done that.

[Bryce Lynch]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

But I understood the Wolves, and as much as I hated Negan and the Sanctuary, I understood what they were doing. I understood what they were doing at Terminus, and I understood what the Governor was doing. I'm completely baffled by what the hell the Whisperers are doing. And the longer they drag it out the more irritated I'm going to be by them. I don't think they're interesting or compelling just because they're weird and creepy. I just think WTF?

Another serious problem with the show. The stakes are really low now because there are literally three people I give a shit about anymore so pretty much anyone else can die and I just won't care. Am I supposed to care what happens to Alden and Luke? The former has barely been a character and the latter we met like 2 minutes ago. 

I think the show has really over-estimated my interest in some of these new and marginal characters.

I agree.  With so many new characters and so many old favorites gone, it is hard to care what happens to anybody.

I think the things that made the show when it was good were the characters, the relationships and the survival scenarios in a world where society has completely broken down.

I don't think they are doing a good job with any of those things any more. 

[Nashville]

9 hours ago, Cherokee Rose said:

And, yes, they shot a ton of bullets at the Sanctuary... and that was, what, 5 years before where we are now? So, likely some limits on bullets.

7 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I also mentioned the gunpowder issue.  There would probably be much less of that to be found than complete ammo cartridges.   I have no idea how hard the powder is to produce.  Is it something Eugene could synthesize? 

As has already been previously demonstrated, the bullets themselves are relatively easy to manufacture so long as a supply of lead is available; gunpowder even more so, if (as Eugene does) you know the proper ingredients and the proper proportions.  Two other things are liable to get in your way, though:

1. Bullet casings and primers - two things about these.  A. Every time you fire a weapon (especially an automatic or semi-automatic weapon) in the outdoors you’re likely to lose at least a few casings, unless you have a catch bag rigged up on the weapon to capture ejected brass.  B. Even if by some kind of miracle you do manage to retain 100% of your casings, eventually they wear out - explosion deformity, metal fatigue, thinning, etc. all conspire over time to render the casings incapable of sustaining a reload.  Ditto on the primers.  (Note: we had a discussion on this a while back, but helifino where it is).
2. Sufficient functional weapons.  Keep in mind (a) every group subservient to the Saviors contributed all (or almost all) of their weapons stores to the Saviors multiple times, and (b) many (most?) of those weapons were destroyed in a manner of seconds by Eugene’s bit o’ creative sabotage. Not to mention that over time, things (including firearms) simply break - and without the ability to manufacture replacement components of sufficient quality, they’re going to stay broken.  

Part of Negan’s little post-escape stroll through town (before he got back to the Sanctuary) appeared to be through the foundry which had housed the bullet-manufacturing operation, and it appeared to have been shut down for a LONG time - from which I deduced the operation had experienced either a lack of raw materials for functional cartridges, or a lack of guns for which to manufacture them.

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, Lady Iris said:

Wasn't Lydia basically saying that their group has wiped out other groups because the civilized groups don't belong in the world now? That seems like a nasty threat to deal with in the upcoming eps.

Everything we’ve heard and seen to date about the Whisperers indicates their core belief is that any attempts to replicate pre-ZA life “do not belong here” - they are unnatural artifacts in the New ZA Order, and should be expunged from existence.  

Given such a mentality - and assuming Alpha&Co. are True Believers - why should Daryl (or anybody else in the settlements, for that matter) expect Alpha to keep a truce promise given to something Alpha considers a decaying remnant of a bankrupt society?  From Alpha’s POV she already believes societal humans and their settlements are dinosaurs predestined for collapse and elimination - so wouldn’t any lie which hastens that inevitable process simply be her way of speeding up what Nature is going to do anyway?  In Alpha’s mind she may see making and breaking such promises as conservationally justified - as helping the planet heal itself of these last remaining tumors of human-inflicted civilization.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Nashville
Grammar

[AngelaHunter]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

If Daryl was on Gunsmoke he would be Festus. 

Or Chester: "Whatever you say, Mr. Grimes". Daryl is the perfect follower who now has no leader.

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

But I understood the Wolves, and as much as I hated Negan and the Sanctuary, I understood what they were doing.

Call me dense, but I never understood the Wolves. A bunch of people who seemed unconcerned with survival which had come down to food and water, all infected with the same mental aberration which made them just want to randomly race around and kill any person they saw. Nope, I didn't get it.

For me, the only group (other than Joe's although that was more of a band) who made sense was Woodbury, where people thought they could have a post-ZA life that - delusional or not -  had some approximation of their pre-ZA life. That, I could understand. People cling to what they know.

[Nashville]

17 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

other than Joe's although that was more of a band

For Country Joe and the Claimers, I think even that might be stretching it a mite. Joe and his crew were little more than a loose association of individuals (in the strongest sense of the word) who stuck together simply because they recognized the inherent value of strength in numbers when it came to conflicts with Claimer-external individuals/groups over stuff.

[maystone]

4 hours ago, Nashville said:

Everything we’ve heard and seen to date about the Whisperers indicates their core belief is that any attempts to replicate pre-ZA life “do not belong here” - they are unnatural artifacts in the New ZA Order, and should be expunged from existence.  

Given such a mentality - and assuming Alpha&Co. are True Believers - why should Daryl (or anybody else in the settlements, for that matter) expect Alpha to keep a truce promise given to something Alpha considers a decaying remnant of a bankrupt society?  From Alpha’s POV she already believes societal humans and their settlements are dinosaurs predestined for collapse and elimination - so wouldn’t any lie which hastens that inevitable process simply be her way of speeding up what Nature is going to do anyway?  In Alpha’s mind she may see making and breaking such promises as conservationally justified - as helping the planet heal itself of these last remaining tumors of human-inflicted civilization.

I don't think that Alpha is a true believer in anything other than power and destruction. I could be wrong; I'm just going on Lydia's memory of her behavior pre-and-early ZA. To quote the great Alfred Pennyworth: They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

[AngelaHunter]

On 2/17/2019 at 11:13 PM, Yakima said:

Would love to see her and her stupid slingshot as walker food.

Seriously - a slingshot? Everyone has a shtick when it comes to weapons and this is definitely one of the things that's fine in a comic book, but looks stupid in live action. What's next? Someone who is lethal with a boomerang? Ninja throwing stars? A katar?

[Colorado David]

Just how easy is it to skin a face? Because when I shave, i make nicks and cuts all over - I can't imagine successfully skinning a face intact would be easy AT ALL.

That and gross, I don't want to walk around all day with a dead mask o. Who knows what germs are getting into your eyes, nostrils, and mouth. And scalp, lice anybody???

[Bryce Lynch]

15 hours ago, Nashville said:

As has already been previously demonstrated, the bullets themselves are relatively easy to manufacture so long as a supply of lead is available; gunpowder even more so, if (as Eugene does) you know the proper ingredients and the proper proportions.  Two other things are liable to get in your way, though:

1. Bullet casings and primers - two things about these.  A. Every time you fire a weapon (especially an automatic or semi-automatic weapon) in the outdoors you’re likely to lose at least a few casings, unless you have a catch bag rigged up on the weapon to capture ejected brass.  B. Even if by some kind of miracle you do manage to retain 100% of your casings, eventually they wear out - explosion deformity, metal fatigue, thinning, etc. all conspire over time to render the casings incapable of sustaining a reload.  Ditto on the primers.  (Note: we had a discussion on this a while back, but helifino where it is).
2. Sufficient functional weapons.  Keep in mind (a) every group subservient to the Saviors contributed all (or almost all) of their weapons stores to the Saviors multiple times, and (b) many (most?) of those weapons were destroyed in a manner of seconds by Eugene’s bit o’ creative sabotage. Not to mention that over time, things (including firearms) simply break - and without the ability to manufacture replacement components of sufficient quality, they’re going to stay broken.  

Part of Negan’s little post-escape stroll through town (before he got back to the Sanctuary) appeared to be through the foundry which had housed the bullet-manufacturing operation, and it appeared to have been shut down for a LONG time - from which I deduced the operation had experienced either a lack of raw materials for functional cartridges, or a lack of guns for which to manufacture them.

I forgot about the primers.  They would be scarce as well and might be more difficult to produce than powder.

I would think shell casings would be relative easy to manufacture, though I'm not sure how much manufacturing ability they have.  Rifle cartridges were produced in the 19th century, so they are not super advanced technology.   That brings up a general question, about how long it would take to start restoring manufacturing and technology.   Have we become so dependent upon computers and advanced machines that nobody knows how to build or repair, that we couldn't get them up and running again in a post societal collapse world.

I would think there would be plenty of functioning guns remaining.  There are more privately owned guns in America than people, and that ratio of guns to people in places like Virginia and Georgia where most of the show takes place would be even higher.   That doesn't even take into account the guns that could be found at military bases, police stations, sporting goods stores, and warehouses, etc.    I think it would take a long time for the small percentage of people who survived to wear out all those guns.  Of course, rust and decay might be a problem for guns that hadn't been stored properly and got exposed to the elements in buildings that began to fall apart over the years.  

Simpler guns like bolt action rifles and break action shotguns would be a lot easier to maintain and repair, and would wear out more slowly, so they might be more common used by this stage of the ZA.  

[Bryce Lynch]

10 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Can't be any worse than riding a horse with a spear facing upwards, and we have already seen Alden do that.  What could possibly go wrong?

The Whisperers must be celibate.  No sex in the herd of walkers, and definitely no babies being born.

Spoiler

I don't know about babies, but something I heard about the comics indicated that there was a lot of sex, and much of it non-consensual among the Whisperers.  

[Bryce Lynch]

15 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Or Chester: "Whatever you say, Mr. Grimes". Daryl is the perfect follower who now has no leader.

Call me dense, but I never understood the Wolves. A bunch of people who seemed unconcerned with survival which had come down to food and water, all infected with the same mental aberration which made them just want to randomly race around and kill any person they saw. Nope, I didn't get it.

For me, the only group (other than Joe's although that was more of a band) who made sense was Woodbury, where people thought they could have a post-ZA life that - delusional or not -  had some approximation of their pre-ZA life. That, I could understand. People cling to what they know.

I agree about Woodbury.  Is there any reason it couldn't have worked, if it didn't have an insane, cruel Governor?  

The idea that groups of people would want to live like animals, doesn't make much sense, and the idea that they would survive out there in small groups, with no shelter or stable source of food doesn't seem realistic.  

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I am more than a bit surprised that the Hill Top hasn't developed blow guns.  They may not be useful against walkers, but they would be useful against living antagonists.

They would also have to find some fast-acting poison to tip the projectile/dart that can disable someone before he/she can pull it out.

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Can't be any worse than riding a horse with a spear facing upwards, and we have already seen Alden do that.

I really need to rewatch because I missed that. Sounds awesome. Gee, even when I'm carrying scissors around, I make sure the sharp end is pointing down. 🤣

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

 Have we become so dependent upon computers and advanced machines that nobody knows how to build or repair, that we couldn't get them up and running again in a post societal collapse world.

Pretty much this. I think it would generally be true that few of us (me included)aside from people who specialized in certain trades and skills pre-AZ would know how to make even a candle from scratch.

[marcee]

Didn't they receive books and books of "how tos" from weird-record-collecting-lady about how to restart society? Among those books (and the things they pilfered from museums and libraries) were there no "how tos" for effective weapons? I mean, slingshots? Come on.

Edited February 20, 2019 by marcee

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

If they had used slingshots to break Nagen's windows instead of bullets, they would still have their bullets.

Why, oh, why couldn't our gang have thought of that? Because does it really matter what you use when your aim is only to break windows? They could have come armed with rocks. 😆

[CletusMusashi]

I actually think slingshots are good call... except against humans with better weapons. They're perfectly capable of taking down a bird or rodent for dinner, and you can pretty much go through a zombie skull nowadays by giving it a paper cut or an enthusiastic high-five, so high speed rocks ought to be quite sufficient. If I were traveling in the ZA, I wouldn't want a slingshot as my only ranged weapon, but I would want to have one.

[diebartdie]

20 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Seriously - a slingshot? Everyone has a shtick when it comes to weapons and this is definitely one of the things that's fine in a comic book, but looks stupid in live action. What's next? Someone who is lethal with a boomerang? Ninja throwing stars? A katar?

You are so silly! Slingshots, boomerangs, throwing stars and katars are all indeed lethal in the right hands. And if you're talking about only fighting deadies, well I'm sure you remember Andrea killing who knows how many zeds with a teeny, tiny, itty, bitty little thumb-long knife! All those things can easily kill living beings as well. Is it a shtick? David killed Goliath with a slingshot, sounds good enough to me! Slingshots are quiet, ammo is plentiful and it seems like the sort of weapon that would be overlooked meaning easily replaceable at any outdoorsy type store. I would love to see someone roll up using a damn boomerang, that would be awesome!  Throwing stars too! The katar though....let's swap that for a chakram!

[Nashville]

@Bryce Lynch - some good stuff to discuss in your post, but I’m going to take it to another thread to respond.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Nashville
Added link

[Colorado David]

4 hours ago, diebartdie said:

You are so silly! Slingshots, boomerangs, throwing stars and katars are all indeed lethal in the right hands. And if you're talking about only fighting deadies, well I'm sure you remember Andrea killing who knows how many zeds with a teeny, tiny, itty, bitty little thumb-long knife! All those things can easily kill living beings as well. Is it a shtick? David killed Goliath with a slingshot, sounds good enough to me! Slingshots are quiet, ammo is plentiful and it seems like the sort of weapon that would be overlooked meaning easily replaceable at any outdoorsy type store. I would love to see someone roll up using a damn boomerang, that would be awesome!  Throwing stars too! The katar though....let's swap that for a chakram!

Agreed. It's knowing the vulnerable points. Wrist rockets are lethal if you know which part of the forehead to aim for. Arrows have been perfected over ages for killing targets, since what pre Roman times? Kinetic energy + sharp point equals quite deadly if used correctly. And likely much easier to produce than techy bullet nonsense. You don't need bullet speed with walking dead, plus the noise involved. and chambering, keeping the gun barrel cleaned, etc. I'd do a bow/arrow or some such 100x more than any bullet tech.

[AngelaHunter]

14 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Slingshots, boomerangs, throwing stars and katars are all indeed lethal in the right hands.

I'm well aware of that. A knitting needle can be lethal in the right hands.

[diebartdie]

Man, now Im imagining a new, even more lethal group of antagonists....The Gothic Grannies with their knitting needles!

[marcee]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I have no clue how the Whisperers can talk to each other at all when they are in the middle of a herd.  They can't just be willy-nilly walking all over the place without some sort of plan.  There had to be some sort of discussion before they arrived at the Hilltop.  I am hoping we will get a flashback scene or two.

They whisper.

*bah dum tss*

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

The Ricksters haven't raided a nursing home yet.   Walkers using walkers, and walkers in wheelchairs would be a sight to see.  If TPTB ever go down that path, I can envision someone getting hit with a bed pan.

I just had an image of a septuagenarian walker stumbling down a country road dragging his oxygen tank behind him on its little roller caddy, the cannula tubes still in his nose and around his ears, and now my sides hurt from laughing so hard and I can’t stop....  😄 😄😄 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Nashville
Can’t breathe....

[heisenberg]

On 2/19/2019 at 10:32 PM, AngelaHunter said:

Seriously - a slingshot? Everyone has a shtick when it comes to weapons and this is definitely one of the things that's fine in a comic book, but looks stupid in live action. What's next? Someone who is lethal with a boomerang? Ninja throwing stars? A katar?

A baseball bat with nails that you name after your wife's name?  🙂

[iMonrey]

Quote

I have no clue how the Whisperers can talk to each other at all when they are in the middle of a herd. 

One of the many things about them that don't make sense. It's been well-established that Walkers are drawn to noise, any noise. Just just voices. I guess now we're supposed to accept that Walkers are whisper deaf?  

[nodorothyparker]

6 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

The Ricksters haven't raided a nursing home yet.   Walkers using walkers, and walkers in wheelchairs would be a sight to see.  If TPTB ever go down that path, I can envision someone getting hit with a bed pan.

The Governor/Phillip/Bryan did during one of the two stand alone episodes it took to prove that yeah, still a dick even if he initially set out to do a good thing in scavenging an oxygen tank for Tara's dying father.  That would be the set of episodes that gave us Tara the clumsiest lesbian police academy recruit ever for those keeping score at home.  Without going back and rewatching because no, just no, I vaguely remember an old woman trying to give chase to him by padding along in her wheelchair behind him in what was a better idea for a set piece than it proved to be in execution.

[CletusMusashi]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

One of the many things about them that don't make sense. It's been well-established that Walkers are drawn to noise, any noise. Just just voices. I guess now we're supposed to accept that Walkers are whisper deaf?  

It never made sense. They are mindless shambling predators who just randomly attack anything that might be food... except each other? Or things that they think, with their shambling mindless brains, might be each other? If their allegedly nonexistent brains can be fooled by Season 1 cosplay, or for some temporary random reason by Wolf raves, then why not by using a creepy scary voice?

[Nashville]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

One of the many things about them that don't make sense. It's been well-established that Walkers are drawn to noise, any noise. Just just voices. I guess now we're supposed to accept that Walkers are whisper deaf?  

It’s been established walkers are drawn to sensory stimuli, true - but think about what qualifies as a stimulus. At the very minimum, it has to present as an aberration from the existing sensory baseline; its perceptive sensory qualities have to exceed its current environmental “background” thresholds by a degree sufficient to stand out.  A dim flashing light which would be an immediate attention-getter at night, for example, might not even be perceptible in the full light of day.  

The same sensory discrimination principle would apply to sound as well.  Walkers are surrounded by a sea of sound all the time - the rustling of their clothing as they walk, the sound of their footsteps (particularly when walking through the woods or areas of dense undergrowth), their own guttural snarls and hisses, etc.  - so a sound would have to be sufficiently loud and/or different enough for the walkers to react to it.  The whole Whisperer premise is based upon the notion their whispers are neither - loud enough to be picked up on by an ear actively listening for them, but not so loud as to constitute a stimulus response above and beyond the general background noise of a group of walkers.

All of which is kinda put to lie by the notion Eugene and Rosita could hear them from 20+ feet away, but hey - there ya go.  ;>

[Pixiebomb]

I’m pissed off at these Whisperers too because there’s no way we are going to see the Kings Fair which I totally pictured as a Renaissance Fair in Ye Olde Kingdom. 

And what a stupid idea (writers) to leave two DEAF characters out in the dark.  They can’t hear the Walkers coming- or see them in the dark. Duh?!?

now that Tara is the de facto Leader of HT I bet she keeps asking herself What Would Jesus Do?  Sorry, couldn’t resist. 

So it looks our new conflict will be the Whisperers vs the Mumblers. (Led by Daryl and Michonne). 

[diebartdie]

5 hours ago, Pixiebomb said:

And what a stupid idea (writers) to leave two DEAF characters out in the dark.  They can’t hear the Walkers coming- or see them in the dark. Duh?!?

Pretty sure there is only the ONE deaf person.

[Colorado David]

I'd like a deaf person with me, their visual acuity would be heightened to razor sharp

[CletusMusashi]

I like the idea about familiar stimulus not registering as much as new stimulus. I'll even accept that, if this is the case, speaking in snarly crypt-whispers might blend in well enough with zombie growls to work. But what about before the sound of others becomes familiar stimulus? Shouldn't a new Walker, that isn't used to anything yet, run around attacking other Walkers at first? Then when it figures out they taste like shit, it would stop responding that way. Which implies a little bit of learning ability. 

Unless maybe they have no sense of "my noise" versus "noise from others," etc... in which case a whole bunch of masses that smell and sound like their own sounds and smells would blend in with their... I can't actually say self, but the gist of this should be obvious enough in context.

About the fair: If we do not get to see Jerry jousting, Michonne and Carol joining a quilting bee and losing their atrocious wigs when all that extra gets irrevocably tangled up with the cloth, and /or Negan threatening to monologue everyone to death unless Daryl shoots an apple off Henry's head (accuracy optional!) then I am going to be very, very disappointed with all this buildup.

[AngelaHunter]

10 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

or Negan threatening to monologue everyone to death

Or have a dick-measuring contest in a tent. "Step right up, you sorry shits! Lay those pitiful peters right on this table here! You pays your money, you takes your chances!"

[mightysparrow]

16 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

About the fair: If we do not get to see Jerry jousting, Michonne and Carol joining a quilting bee and losing their atrocious wigs when all that extra gets irrevocably tangled up with the cloth, and /or Negan threatening to monologue everyone to death unless Daryl shoots an apple off Henry's head (accuracy optional!) then I am going to be very, very disappointed with all this buildup.

Jousting Jerry?  That would be must-see television.

[Red Bridey]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 10:59 AM, Macbeth said:

I also really liked the story about why Carol grew out her hair.

Am I too late?  Is anyone reading this thread?  I must have missed this particular dialogue.  Why is Carol growing out her hair?

[Gobi]

1 hour ago, Red Bridey said:

Am I too late?  Is anyone reading this thread?  I must have missed this particular dialogue.  Why is Carol growing out her hair?

I think it was because her abusive husband would grab her by the hair. He's long dead now, so she felt it was OK to grow it out. I guess zombies never try to grab someone by the hair.

[Macbeth]

4 hours ago, Red Bridey said:

Am I too late?  Is anyone reading this thread?  I must have missed this particular dialogue.  Why is Carol growing out her hair?

Carol kept her hair short due to her abusive husband's tendency to grab her by the hair to beat her when she kept it long.

[raven]

4 hours ago, Gobi said:

guess zombies never try to grab someone by the hair.

No, silly, zombies do not commit spousal abuse.

[Red Bridey]

Thanks for the answer to my question!

[Eulipian 5k]

On 2/18/2019 at 10:30 AM, mightysparrow said:

I don't know why they just don't hand Alpha's brat over and call it a day.  Hopefully they aren't going to keep Lydia around because she had a hard childhood.  Too bad, so sad, things are tough all over, kid. 

"No..., that's what they'll be expecting us to do!" Let's protect her til we lose someone much more valuable, then we can lock up Alpha under the watchful eyes of Henry (Phyfe), son of Barney.