The Stand - General Discussion

[Keywestclubkid]

40 mins in and I'm digging it... Didn't know how I would feel about the changes they made  in Harold but the actor really sold it ....

[BonnieD]

So far so okay. Not loving the non-linear structure at all, but the casting is good enough, particularly James Marsden who does not make me miss Gary Sinise after all. Plus, anyone is better than Molly Ring who was terribly mis-cast.
I wanted to fall insanely in love with the remake but I'm not there yet. As the Primetimer review pointed out, the en media res telling doesn't allow the enormity of the plague and its effect on society to slowly grow on you. You don't get to watch things slowly spiralling out of control. You're just plunked down in the middle with a lot of backtracking. Plus,  Stu's escape from the facility was torturous to read in the book, and in the first TV version. This time, he just barrelled on through without having to feel his way in the dark, step around dead bodies, or have someone grab at his ankle and whisper "Come precious. Down in the dark. We all float down here" LOL

Anyway, I'll watch because I presume it will get better. And I'm eager to see the other characters and the new (better one hopes) ending.

[starri]

21 minutes ago, captain1 said:

Did anyone else notice and find it weird that when Gen. Starkey was quoting Yeats' "The Second Coming" the most crucial line was omitted? It goes ......things fall apart, the centre cannot hold" and he didn't read "the centre cannot hold", which I believe is the line quoted specifically in the 1994 mini series.  Just struck me as odd.

What's funny is that JK Simmons pronounced "Yeats" correctly.  In the book, it's mentioned that Starkey unknowingly called him "Yeets," and they carried that over into the miniseries.  That jumped out at me for some reason.

I don't think '94 quoted that part.  I think it was the last two lines.

I thought it might have been on a title card, but I remembered that was actually TS Eliot.

[rwlevin]

Well that was...different. Interesting take on Harold. I don’t remember him being so creepy in the book, just a depressed kid with a crush on his former babysitter who gets seduced by the dark side. A very tragic character. And as far as Randall Flagg causing the epidemic? I thought in the book he was just an opportunist. Not sure about the time jumps.

I loved the 1994 miniseries so I reserve judgement on this, it’s very strange.

[IndyMischa]

12 minutes ago, rwlevin said:

Well that was...different. Interesting take on Harold. I don’t remember him being so creepy in the book, just a depressed kid with a crush on his former babysitter who gets seduced by the dark side. A very tragic character. 

He's creepy as all get out in the book too. If anything, the tv character is significantly better looking and a little less scary. 

[Arynm]

I really liked this take on Harold. His smiling in the mirror to practice and then using it on Stu and Frannie made my skin crawl. He is really creepy from the start. Frannie hasn't made much of an impression yet, I am hoping she will grow on me. Stu is great from the jump.

I loved that Flagg had a hand in getting the virus out, it's a great take and I approve. I can't wait to see the rest of the characters.

[Trillian]

I seriously need to rewatch and somehow pretend that I haven’t read the book (several times) or seen the original (several times). As it is, I wasn’t sure that someone new to the story would truly get what was going on. Maybe? What is this story without the growing horror?

And it’s really hard to wrap my mind around The Stand without Don’t Fear the Reaper. How do you remake perfection?  

Edited December 18, 2020 by Trillian
Typos

[captain1]

And I really missed “Don’t Dream It’s Over”.

[Trillian]

Just now, captain1 said:

And I really missed “Don’t Dream It’s Over”.

It was far more plausible in the original that there was still an old wind-up record player around somewhere. This was just appeared out of nowhere. And I kept thinking:  wrong song.  Sigh.  

[Keywestclubkid]

1 hour ago, IndyMischa said:

He's creepy as all get out in the book too. If anything, the tv character is significantly better looking and a little less scary. 

He looks like clea duvall anytime in the late 90s lol 

[mikal768]

1 hour ago, Trillian said:

It was far more plausible in the original that there was still an old wind-up record player around somewhere. This was just appeared out of nowhere. And I kept thinking:  wrong song.  Sigh.  

Wasn’t it in the “antiques” store that also had the typewriter Harold took with him?

[Cotypubby]

Really liking this Harold and Fran much better than the original miniseries. Owen Teague (Harold) was previously in the IT remake as Patrick Hockstetter. Not a fan of the time jumps though, I keep having to remember where in the timeline we are with each new scene and I feel like that detracts from appreciating what is actually going on. Kind of surprised they are all already suddenly in Boulder: didn’t it take several episodes to get there in the 1994 miniseries? If I didn’t already know the story it would seem too odd to suddenly have Stu appearing with Harold and Fran, like what? He was just in Texas in the previous scene...   The non-linear storytelling is a bit of a challenge. 

The line about the doctor hoping he would be able to create the most important vaccine in human history coming at the exact same time as one of the most important vaccines in human history is actually created in real life, wow. 😬 

Sucks that it’s a weekly show, my free trial for CBS All Access expires next week so I’ll only be able to see one more before it runs out. 

And yeah that was definitely Bryan Cranston doing the voiceover! I don’t think he was listed in the credits. 
 

[Trillian]

9 hours ago, mikal768 said:

Wasn’t it in the “antiques” store that also had the typewriter Harold took with him?

Shows how closely I was watching!  Thanks

[Mr. Sparkle]

I liked it. It was a good start at least. I'm a big fan of the novel; I didn't love the original mini-series. I could have done without all the vomit. 

I'm no fucking prude, but they fucking seemed to use the f-word like they got a fucking dollar every time they fucking used it. 

[IndyMischa]

39 minutes ago, Superclam said:

I'm no fucking prude, but they fucking seemed to use the f-word like they got a fucking dollar every time they fucking used it. 

My friend group must just be filthier than average.* I didn't even notice all the fucking swear words, until a couple of mentions here. 

* Spoiler alert: that was a humblebrag. We are wayyy above average. 

[mojoween]

 

 

The tunnel scene with Larry Underwood is one of my favorite parts of Stephen’s writing ever and I really hope it is not omitted, because I haven’t read the book since the unabridged paperback was released so don’t remember exactly when in the story it is.

Edited December 19, 2020 by mojoween

[jcin617]

I am not sold on the non-linear storytelling.  I generally hate that format because it seems like a cheap way to add tension to a story - one that in this case doesn’t need it.  The speed with which the virus (and fear, and confusion) spread and how society fell apart was the whole point of the first third (or so) of the book so not sure how you convey that disjointedly.

Edited December 19, 2020 by jcin617

[IndyMischa]

12 hours ago, mojoween said:

 

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The tunnel scene with Larry Underwood is one of my favorite parts of Stephen’s writing ever and I really hope it is not omitted, because I haven’t read the book since the unabridged paperback was released so don’t remember exactly when in the story it is.

Spoiler

It's when (and how) he and Rita are leaving NYC - I think it's the Lincoln Tunnel. They'll probably cover Larry's travel to Boulder in the next ep, maybe two, so you should get to see it soon! 

 

[Keywestclubkid]

1 hour ago, IndyMischa said:

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It's when (and how) he and Rita are leaving NYC - I think it's the Lincoln Tunnel. They'll probably cover Larry's travel to Boulder in the next ep, maybe two, so you should get to see it soon! 

 

Is Rita her own character this time? 

[IndyMischa]

44 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Is Rita her own character this time? 

Spoiler

Yes, played by Heather Graham. No idea of they're going to follow her book plot though. 

 

[PamelaMaeSnap]

2 hours ago, IndyMischa said:

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It's when (and how) he and Rita are leaving NYC - I think it's the Lincoln Tunnel. They'll probably cover Larry's travel to Boulder in the next ep, maybe two, so you should get to see it soon! 

 

Yes to all of this (assuming I don't need to spoil that comment). 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 12/18/2020 at 8:00 AM, IndyMischa said:

My friend group must just be filthier than average.* I didn't even notice all the fucking swear words, until a couple of mentions here. 

* Spoiler alert: that was a humblebrag. We are wayyy above average. 

On a scale of 1 (Mr. Roger's Neghborhood) to 10 (later seasons of Suits), the amount of awkward and out-of-place swearing it seemed about a 3 to me. It is the end of the world, after all. 

[Keywestclubkid]

Definitely liked the 2nd episode a lot more then the first .... the non-linear thing they are doing suited Larry's story A LOT more ...

[Cotypubby]

The second episode was a lot better than the first but I'm pissed how they changed Larry’s escape from New York. The Lincoln Tunnel scene terrified me in the book and 1994 miniseries and was one of my favorite parts. It was so disturbing and claustrophobic with all the bodies. Changing it to walking through sewer water? Lame! 😑 There was nothing scary about that (and the lapses in geography were super distracting.)

[Chaos Theory]

I am actually liking the non linear structure.  It allows the show to focus on two or three characters at a time and tell a deeper story about them.    That Harold was a budding psychopath and the Tripps virus could have been his saving grace and made him important in the CO community but he CHOSE to hold on to old grudges.  

The second episode The Larry story actually goes the other way and a selfish man finds that he is now able to help people who need it.   
 

I also really like the way the show is writing Lloyd.  He is definitely a criminal but one easily influenced by stronger personalities which is what Flagg is.  

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[IndyMischa]

I liked this ep even less than the first one. I usually like Amber Heard, but I don't think she's being put to good use here. Larry's story was fine but boring, pretty much how I felt about his book character.

The non linear structure continues to piss me off. It feels very second year film student, complicated for the sake of being complicated. Gee, looks like Larry's in danger, I wonder if he'll die? Oh wait, no, we just saw him arrive in Boulder. 🙄

Book stuff, spoiler flagged just in case:

Spoiler

The whole point of Rita's suicide, is to make Larry a little less of a self centered shithead. Glad we just saw her strolling through the evening and chugging pills instead... 

Lloyd's story was too brief, but semi interesting. Flagg is awesome, and i find myself getting annoyed that I have to wait until the last few minutes to see him. 

I'm in this one until it's over, but I see lots of snark in my future. 

[Keywestclubkid]

12 hours ago, IndyMischa said:

I liked this ep even less than the first one. I usually like Amber Heard, but I don't think she's being put to good use here.

 

I disagree on this .. what would you have her do come out twisting a fake mustache while cackling in the background? I think she and the director are playing her correctly here she is supposed to be flying under the raider there are subtle hints at whats coming and this episode was supposed to be Larrys introduction mainly .. out of everyone she was the one character I was most worried about how they would portray esp with the shitty way they did in the first adaption

[captain1]

So far not loving this as much as I was hoping to.  I love the book and the original miniseries and all the original cast (yes even *gasp* Molly Ringwald).  I guess I’ve just read and seen them too many times .  I’ll hang in because I don’t hate it.

[starri]

I was a bit surprised to learn that the actor playing Lloyd is a former Nickelodeon star.  He was FANTASTIC.  Lloyd in the book is almost-but-not-quite a sympathetic, and the miniseries really whiffed that.  

[TattleTeeny]

I keep seeing this referred to as a "limited series" -- does anyone know if after it concludes, it will be available to binge? Or is it going to disappear from CBS All Access? If the former, I guess I will do my free week then and finish it in one shot!

Quote

He's creepy as all get out in the book too. If anything, the tv character is significantly better looking and a little less scary. 

Yeah, he was awful in the book too. Basically a "nice guy" incel who thinks women owe him. For some reason, I always pictured Oliver Platt as Harold. Young Oliver Platt, that is; I first read The Stand in the '80s.

Edited December 27, 2020 by TattleTeeny

[rwlevin]

6 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

 

I keep seeing this referred to as a "limited series" -- does anyone know if after it concludes, it will be available to binge? Or is it going to disappear from CBS All Access

 

Limited series just means it’s longer than a miniseries and shorter than a regular series, ie no multiple seasons.

[TattleTeeny]

Haha, I just went to cancel my subscription and got a "Wait, please no!" message giving me a free month anyway. So now I can at least binge a few in a row. (Also, the first episode is available free for Amazon Prime members.)

[IndyMischa]

I just finished ep 3, and it's MUCH better than the first two. Probably because I'm super biased: the structural fuckery was toned way down and it had more ASkars. Amber was given something do do, a nice surprise after her dud intro last week.

Book stuff:

Spoiler

I was expecting the last shot to be Harold arriving home, to find Nadine on his doorstep. I wonder if they're going to go full on "everything but" with those two, or tone it down to a platonic homicidal partnership for TV... 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

9 hours ago, IndyMischa said:

I just finished ep 3, and it's MUCH better than the first two. Probably because I'm super biased: the structural fuckery was toned way down and it had more ASkars. Amber was given something do do, a nice surprise after her dud intro last week.

Book stuff:

  Hide contents

I was expecting the last shot to be Harold arriving home, to find Nadine on his doorstep. I wonder if they're going to go full on "everything but" with those two, or tone it down to a platonic homicidal partnership for TV... 

 

Given the prolific use of the word "fuck," I imagine there will be at least some showing of the "everything but." They may even eliminate the everything but as the insistence on virginity is kind of out of date.

 

[Keywestclubkid]

Just finished episode 3 ... why are they doing NONE of the conflict that Nadine had in the book regarding her pull away and towards the dark man? This is gonna bug me if they don't show ANY conflict that she had and she is just str8 up bad cause that wasn't her in the book and it plays into her later story line... at this point in the book shes actively trying to stay with Larry so she can stay in bolder and be free of the dark man and its his action that causes her to go to Herold.... UGH yes lets strip her of any 3 dimensional characteristics at all that made her so interesting in the book

Edited January 1, 2021 by Keywestclubkid

[Jodithgrace]

There are so many things about this series that are causing me to yell at the tv screen. I have no problem with Larry Underwood being Black, or Ralph Brentner being a woman, but why couldn't Nadine's hair be black? First of all, since they keep switching timelines, I got her mixed up with Rita Blakemore. But more importantly, Nadine's hair reflects her conflicts, adding more and more white each time she rejects love. Blonde hair is just ordinary. And what's the deal with Mother Abagail only communicating through Nick Andros? She's coming off like some horrible celebrity who refuses to talk to ordinary people. And where is her scene with Nadine and Joe? Larry came in and met with Mother Abigail alone and that was it. It's like this adaption is completely missing the POINT of everything.

One saving grace so far is Greg Kinnear as Glenn Bateman. he's pretty perfect, though his paintings are way too good, and way too on the nose. No subtlety at all in this treatment. 

I'll watch it, because there is precious little else at the moment, but I will probably continue to yell at the screen. 

 

[Schweedie]

1 hour ago, Jodithgrace said:

There are so many things about this series that are causing me to yell at the tv screen. I have no problem with Larry Underwood being Black, or Ralph Brentner being a woman, but why couldn't Nadine's hair be black? First of all, since they keep switching timelines, I got her mixed up with Rita Blakemore. But more importantly, Nadine's hair reflects her conflicts, adding more and more white each time she rejects love. Blonde hair is just ordinary. And what's the deal with Mother Abagail only communicating through Nick Andros? She's coming off like some horrible celebrity who refuses to talk to ordinary people. And where is her scene with Nadine and Joe? Larry came in and met with Mother Abigail alone and that was it. It's like this adaption is completely missing the POINT of everything.

One saving grace so far is Greg Kinnear as Glenn Bateman. he's pretty perfect, though his paintings are way too good, and way too on the nose. 

 

Very similar feelings here. Greg Kinnear as Bateman so far is the one thing I actually like better than the old mini series - he's exactly what I've always pictured Bateman to be when I read it, although agreed about the paintings. That part was a bit overkill.

In general not really enjoying it, mainly because the non-linear structure isn't working at all for me. I wonder if it's confusing viewers with no prior knowledge at all of the story (if those viewers exist), because it confuses me! And frustrates me, because I feel like they keep just barely scratching the surfaces of every character they focus on for a little bit, before they skip to something else. ...It's also possible I'm just annoyed that they short-changed Nick's whole Shoyo experience, if that was really all we're gonna get about his story before he met Tom. Nick was always my favourite. (But yeah, what the hell is this thing about Mother Abagail only communicating through him? Such a weird detail to add/change.)

[rwlevin]

I feel like this adaptation has no urgency. Even the dream sequences are kind of boring. I remember being so creeped out with the first miniseries. I mean, sure, I was only 13 at the time but I was already well versed with Stephen King and actually started reading the book during the miniseries. But with this, not even the captain trips victims seem that freaky.

[IndyMischa]

2 hours ago, rwlevin said:

I feel like this adaptation has no urgency. Even the dream sequences are kind of boring. I remember being so creeped out with the first miniseries. I mean, sure, I was only 13 at the time but I was already well versed with Stephen King and actually started reading the book during the miniseries. But with this, not even the captain trips victims seem that freaky.

Yeah, the time-shift is robbing the story of much of its creep-factor. But I felt like this last episode was less-crappy than the ones before it with that, so - hope springs eternal - that improvement will continue. 

[patty1h]

The Tom Cullen actor needs to tone it down... he was on the screen for 5 minutes and it was giving me a headache, my laws!  

[jcin617]

2 hours ago, IndyMischa said:

Yeah, the time-shift is robbing the story of much of its creep-factor. But I felt like this last episode was less-crappy than the ones before it with that, so - hope springs eternal - that improvement will continue. 

The jumping around in time is ruining the pacing of the story.  The first time I heard that’s what they were going to do with this miniseries I knew it was going to be a mistake.  Although maybe if you didn’t know the story already, you wouldn’t realize the narrative flow and character arcs you’re missing.

[IndyMischa]

10 hours ago, jcin617 said:

The jumping around in time is ruining the pacing of the story.  The first time I heard that’s what they were going to do with this miniseries I knew it was going to be a mistake.  Although maybe if you didn’t know the story already, you wouldn’t realize the narrative flow and character arcs you’re missing.

I don't know how much would be "don't know what you're missing," vs how much "don't know wtf is going on." 🙄🙄 It really was a terrible choice to do it this way. 

[Luckylyn]

I wanted to watch a few episodes before I stared discussing this.  

First ,  I like most of the casting.   Stu, Franny, Batman, Flagg, and Larry are well done.   I think this adaptation is handling Harlod and his petty rage well.   I do wish they had hired a deaf actor to play Nick.  They use the excuse that Nick is able to speak in a dream sequence in the book but they have changed other things from the book.  Instead of being  ableist and having Nick able to speak in dreams why not have others able to  use ASL in the dreamscape?  Have the world adjust to Nick in his dreams rather than him adjust to them. That would be a nice way to further distinguish Flagg from Mother Abigail.  Flagg tries to use the ability to speak as a bribe while Mother simply communicates with Nick in a way that validates him as he is.

I think this adaptation is handling Harlod and his petty rage well.  I’m glad Rita was included but think it’s odd her death happened off screen.  That moment Larry realizes she’s not asleep but dead was horrifying and traumatic.  It’s a as a shock that helped Larry go a better path.

After having time to adjust to it I think the non-linear structure is hurting the momentum and character development.  I hate how rushed Nick’s back story was handled.  

I feel like we’re not getting to know Mother Abigail as a person.  She’s a  religious figure because of her connection with God but she’s also a human being.   I feel like she’s not conveying much personality.  Is it the writing, direction, or Whoopi?  I hate the addition of Mother will only communicate through Nick thing.   Mother Abigail engages people and it’s wrong to have her cloistered away.   

Nadine does not just give in to Flagg.  She wrestles with him compelling her to him.  I agree that something is lost by not using Nadine’s black hair slowly turning white as symbolic of her struggle.   

Where is Lucy?  I realize she’s a side character but I do think she plays a role 

Spoiler

She and Larry start a casual relationship before they reach boulder that grows into something stronger.  She bonds with Joe enough for him to call her Lucy Mom.  Joe says a line about how Nadine Mom waited too long to pursue Larry.  That Nadine subconsciously waited until Larry loved Lucy and so would reject Nadine.  Lucy doesn’t have her own arc but she does impact Larry and Joe.

The 90s miniseries does the bare minimum with Lucy but at least they don’t cut her out.  I wonder if they are just dropping her completely but then that means 

Spoiler

Joe’s left an orphan at the end and Larry’s twins never get born.  That makes me sad.   

Someone posted elsewhere a concern that the show runners are overly focused on trying to distinguish themselves from the previous miniseries at the expense of storytelling.  I think that’s a valid criticism.   Style over substance is an issue with this adaptation.  There are good things in this miniseries but also a lot of issues. 

[Keywestclubkid]

1 hour ago, Luckylyn said:

Nadine does not just give in to Flagg.  She wrestles with him compelling her to him.  I agree that something is lost by not using Nadine’s black hair slowly turning white as symbolic of her struggle.   

 

All of this and it’s annoying the hell out of me 

[Chaos Theory]

I guess I am liking this more then a lot of people are.  I like the more “current” interpretation of characters personalities that might not have occurred to King when he wrote the book and weren’t possible when the first miniseries was done.   Making Harold a borderline sociopath who more then likely would have become a serial killer anyway get a chance at the love he always wanted only to lose it to another man but to not see that he has genuine friendship is the kind of tragedy that I like.    To have Nadine have a shot at a family even if it wasn’t what she intended or how she intended it but to not feel it is tragic but both are the kind of things Flagg would play on.

I love the introduction of  Tom Cullen.  He was one of my favorite characters in the original miniseries but this interpretation makes sense.     
 

The non linear format doesn’t really bother me.   I am enjoying the storytelling aspect.    This might however have worked better as a binge then a weekly.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[WaltersHair]

The non-linear timeline is killing this for me. I actually enjoy non-linear storytelling if it's done well, but as others have said, the growing horror of their situation needs a linear line. It's like showing someone being told they have cancer, then it jumps to a person in treatment with no hair, then goes back to the person driving home from the doctor, then to remission.

They also lost Stu's  "Country don't mean stupid," The first time around that was my favorite line.

If I hadn't read the book or watched the first series, I'd give up. Will wait and see.

[calliope1975]

I don't understand the non-linear choice either. I won't get to finish the show because my .99 month of CBS All Access expires before it finishes, but I'm not sure I'm bummed about that. The first time it jumped to Frannie and Stu all together, I paused the show because I thought a glitch happened and I missed my app jumping an episode. I was so confused. Shame because I am enjoying these actors, but this storytelling option doesn't work with this material. 

[txhorns79]

You can tell this show isn't great because I think my main objection (aside from the overly gross snot monsters people become before they die) is that everyone seems to have approximately 5000 candles going at a time in their homes.  It reminds me of the show Revolution (the show where magic nannites shut off the world's power) where they did the same thing.  There's no purpose to it, the reality is that half these people would have already burned down their houses and it isn't as artsy looking as the set designers think it is.  Seriously Mother Abigail.  You can telepathically communicate with people through dreams, but you can't get the power working.  What's that about?

[Keywestclubkid]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

You can tell this show isn't great because I think my main objection (aside from the overly gross snot monsters people become before they die) is that everyone seems to have approximately 5000 candles going at a time in their homes.  It reminds me of the show Revolution (the show where magic nannites shut off the world's power) where they did the same thing.  There's no purpose to it, the reality is that half these people would have already burned down their houses and it isn't as artsy looking as the set designers think it is.  Seriously Mother Abigail.  You can telepathically communicate with people through dreams, but you can't get the power working.  What's that about?

God helps those who help themselves :) they get the power on but they have to make sure that things on in peoples homes are turned off and cleaned out or there is a whole fire hazard right there

[AimingforYoko]

On 1/1/2021 at 7:43 PM, patty1h said:

The Tom Cullen actor needs to tone it down... he was on the screen for 5 minutes and it was giving me a headache, my laws!  

I would say he's overplaying it, except I knew someone who was exactly like that. He didn't have the weird colloquialisms, he just liked to tell everyone they were fired.

On 12/31/2020 at 6:56 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

I was expecting the last shot to be Harold arriving home, to find Nadine on his doorstep. I wonder if they're going to go full on "everything but" with those two

Had to wait until this episode for that. Definitely going everything but (Pun fully intended.)