S05.E05: Pena Dura

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

A military task force, led by Eduardo Dorrance (guest star Shane West) is called in to provide relief to Gotham. Meanwhile, Nygma looks for answers from Penguin, who leads him back to Hugo Strange (guest star BD Wong). Bruce is concerned about Selina's recent behavior.

Promo:

Original air date: 1/31/19

[RandomWatcher]

Holy crap, that ending!

[HoodlumSheep]

It's Harvey's turn for a speech!

i'm finding this season rather on the slow side, but they're probably just taking their time in setting everything up so i'm okay with that.

'dead' jeremiah didn't last very long :P figured he wouldn't stay down for long. That ending scene was great.

betrayal! Wasn't expecting that from eduardo (at least this soon)

vengeance for jojo! Sorry ed, i'm on the rednecks's side with this one :P 

one of my favs is back! Always a pleasure to see Strange. I wonder what this means for leslie though.

[scarynikki12]

This show is bananas. I love it. 

I knew Jeremiah wasn’t dead but that was still nicely revealed. 

[Lantern7]

We're still careening towards the end, and I am enjoying the ride. Bonus: Edward the Bulldog survived the Haven attack!

Apparently, rednecks live in the suburbs of Gotham. Apparently, Gotham has suburbs. Gotta love how Edward Nygma, the most wanted man in Gotham, was captured and tortured by some old lady and her two sons, both of whom might have been products from within the family tree. And the hag wanted to fry Ed -- via car battery -- because her beloved pug Jojo was (supposedly) killed in Haven. Quick aside, I don't know how to stick in the "But it was I, Dio!" meme in there. Thankfully, Ed manages to get the boys to catch fire when the car bursts into flames, as he's all "Don't throw me in the br'er patch electrocute me!"

And the stupid thing? That was the second time Ed got a break from the stupidity of his opponents. Look at the scene where Jim and the Army Guy have him cornered. Look at the hand reaching for the bookshelf. At that point, how did Jim not see the trap coming via false-book pull? Dumb, Jim. Really dumb. Luckily, he figures out how to save his buddy from almost-certain death . . . and said buddy basically betrays him forty minutes later.

I do feel a little bad for Ed. "I didn't kill those people! Well, yes, technically I did, but I wouldn't have done it like that!" On his journey, he reaches an understanding with Oswald which boils down to, "If I kill you, you will know I did it," which is pretty sweet given the lunacy both possess. Even better, we get the return of Hugo Strange and his classic deadpanning. "Oh, my." But it turns out the army guy had a chip embedded in Ed's head, so Ed is basically fucked. Also, here's what runs in my head: "What took you so long to find me?" "I told them to point me to B.D. Wong, but I wound up with Benedict Wong." "That would be annoying. How is he?" "Not bad. He's running a school in 1987. Ever see Fame? Core concept, only with murder instead of dancing."

Looks like Selina is following Bruce's plot from last season, sinking slowly into the abyss from killing Jeremiah. And, like Ra's al Guhl, he isn't dead. Because in Gotha City, everybody gets one more chance. Apparently, Selina didn't stab Jeremiah hard enough, or she didn't locate the heart properly.

Has Harvey ever had a moment with Bruce before?

Edited February 1, 2019 by Lantern7

[thuganomics85]

So, of course, Jeremiah is still alive because he was wearing some kind of powerful body armor that Ecco made for him.  Sure, Gotham.  Of course, Selina probably should have just stabbed his head, if she really wanted to make sure the job was done.

Shane West is here as someone who is totally going to be a major character from the comics (err, spoilers?), and it turns out, he and the character voiced by Jaime Murray are the ones that have been controlling Nygma, thanks to a chip that Hugo Strange (man, I could watch BD Wong camp it up here all day long) installed in him.  Classic Gotham! Also, that opens more questions about what he did with Lee..

It's rare to see Bruce and Bullock just talk amongst themselves, so that was a nice scene.

Good to know Gotham also as a trailer-park section in the city.  This city has everything!

It totally slipped my mind that Selina witnessed the death of Bruce parents.  Nice callback and certainly one way for her to really hit him where it hurts.

I wonder how many episodes it will be before Oswald somehow looses all of that gold he's apparently got hidden.

[Kostgard]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I wonder how many episodes it will be before Oswald somehow looses all of that gold he's apparently got hidden.

Given Oswald’s luck, probably about one episode. He wins something in one episode, he’s bound to lose it in the next.

interesting that as Ed got his memory zapped back he initially saw Oswald’s “I’ll fix you” as a threat, before seeing (after a few more shocks) what was probably closer to the truth - an emotional promise to a friend. More evidence that Ed just likes to hang his shit on Oswald and always sees him as out to get him, even when he isn’t.   

I was surprised that no one seemed too surprised to learn Ed is alive. Last week, Lucius told Ed that people believed he was dead, and unless Lucius broke his promise to not tell anyone that Ed helped him with his investigation, I don’t know why Jim wasn’t surprised to see Ed was buying rocket launchers. And Oswald should have been surprised to find him alive. Otherwise, he paid Strange to save him and then...just let Ed wander off while Oswald had zero contact with him?

But I was really surprised to see Bane break bad so soon. I would have never guessed that he and mystery-lady-on-the-radio were behind blowing up Haven. I really thought Jeremiah was behind it, but he’s too busy being obsessed with Bruce to bother with anyone else, I guess.

I’m glad they figured out BD Wong’s bald cap. It was looking kinda bad there last season. Strange is fun, I’m glad we got to see him again.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Kostgard

[Gobi]

4 hours ago, Kostgard said:

 

I’m glad they figured out BD Wong’s bald cap. It was looking kinda bad there last season. Strange is fun, I’m glad we got to see him again.

Can't wait for when he unleashes his genetically manufactured dinosaurs on Gotham! (Hey, it could happen!)

[Danielg342]

Always great to see Hugo Strange again, and Bruce and Selina really sold their philosophical differences well.

Only other thing I'll say is that I just don't get the government's move here. Why target Haven? Killing civilians is the death knell for any government, not just the "good" ones. I might have liked it better if Bane and his men went Duerte-style on the gangs, going so over the top that even Gordon hates it, leaving him no choice but to assist Oswald.

...but then, Bane couldn't be this season's baddie, I guess. I hope there will be more in the weeks ahead, because so far, it's been underwhelming.

[Sakura12]

It doesn't necessarily have to be the Government that sent them. Walker and Bane know Jim, they could've went rogue and after reading about the craziness of Gotham over the years decided to wipe them out. 

I don't really need to see Selina follow Bruce's storyline after he killed Ra's. I was hoping for better storylines for her. 

Jeremiah resurrected Bruce's parents didn't he. Of course he did. 

Harvey with a nice pep talk to Batman. 

[mertensia]

Bane: There's a puzzle to be solved?

Jim (blase): It's Gotham. There are always puzzles to be solved.

 Yep. You been there too long, Jim.

[AAEBoiler]

So when is Morena Baccarin gonna show up this season because we're running out of episodes!

[darkestboy]

An okay introduction to Eduardo but boy, did they not waste time in telling us that him and Secretary Walker were the ones using Edward to blow up Haven.

Strange really will work for anyone if the price is right. 

Edward and Oswald had some great scenes, so did Bruce with Alfred, Selina and Bullock and Barbara had a good moment with Nygma as well. Loved Edward's reaction to finding out that Oswald named his dog after him.

Jeremiah and Ecco at the end, hardly a shock tbh, 7/10

[festivus]

That scene with Ed and Oswald was what I've been waiting for because I've been pretty bored this season so far. I love Ed asking if he named his dog after him and then the I'll look you in the eyes as I stab you in the heart. 

 

Where the hell is Lee! Last I saw, Strange had two bodies to experiment on. 

[Philbert]

Best part of the episode for me-B.D. Wong channelling George Takei:

 

"oooh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy."

[tennisgurl]

Edwardo: "A wristwatch that can count his heartbeats?"

Jim: "Welcome to Gotham" 

Not too surprising that Jeremiah isnt really dead. You gotta remove the head to finally get rid of a monster for real. Excited to see what is going on there, and his lately evil plan! 

I forgot that Selina was there when Bruce's parents were murdered, that was a nice bit of continuity. Bruce and Selina just cant quit each other, even as Selina gets annoyed with Bruce's do-gooder tendencies, and her own self loathing, while Bruce is frustrated with her lack of interest in the greater good, and his general guilt complex. 

I think that might have been one of the first times we have had Harvey and Bruce in a scene just the two of them. Harvey has come a long way, giving speeches about doing small good things even in an unjust world. Generally this was a good Harvey episode, he got to be pretty badass against Penguin, and he and Jim had a nice moment where Jim told Harvey he was his best cop, and he needs him to be able to take over if Jim is killed in some kind of heroics. 

I cant blame Ed for thinking that Penguin did something to him, and that Penguin was actually trying to help him. Penguin has always been split between his trouble relating to and dealing with people, and generally showing empathy towards them, and a desperate desire to be loved and to not be alone. I mean, he really truly did care about Butch and consider him a friend, but, as Ed mentioned, he still killed him anyway! 

I always love when Strange shows up, he always brings a new level of creepiness, but also some classiness. He is truly the kind of doctor who you would imagine running Gotham General. Speaking of crazy medical practitioners, when is Lee getting back?!

Interesting that Barbara, Ed, and even to a lesser degree penguin, are truly horrified and pissed about the deaths of the civilians at Haven, but its the military that is apparently behind the mass killing. Like even the crazies of Gotham cant imagine killing so many people for such pointless reasons, and knowing that the real bad guys are supposedly "normal, respectable" people, and not a Gotham crazy. 

So, when does Bane get the funky breathing apparatus? 

[Danielg342]

12 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

It doesn't necessarily have to be the Government that sent them. Walker and Bane know Jim, they could've went rogue and after reading about the craziness of Gotham over the years decided to wipe them out.

OK. I suppose that means Bane was hoping Gordon would shoot Nygma without finding out he was being framed. The question is, then what? Will Gordon just be Bane's killing machine before Bane just decides to off Gordon?

I still think the more interesting story would have been Bane targetting the gangs and being ruthless in his disposal of them,  earning Gordon's ire. It at least asks the question, "who is right?" in a grander scale compared to Bruce/Selina/Jeremiah, and avoids the "obviously evil" portrayal.

[Kostgard]

6 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

OK. I suppose that means Bane was hoping Gordon would shoot Nygma without finding out he was being framed. The question is, then what? Will Gordon just be Bane's killing machine before Bane just decides to off Gordon?

I still think the more interesting story would have been Bane targetting the gangs and being ruthless in his disposal of them,  earning Gordon's ire. It at least asks the question, "who is right?" in a grander scale compared to Bruce/Selina/Jeremiah, and avoids the "obviously evil" portrayal.

 

I thought that’s how it was going to turn out - Bane being too ruthless in cleaning up Gotham. But now we are left wondering why these are doing this, and how long they’ve been planning to do it (I mean, they already had Strange in their pocket by the time Jeremiah blew everything up, so it’s been a while). And was he really done with Ed, or figured it was a reasonable loss if Jim didn’t stop him from shooting. I guess I’m willing to wait to see what the motivation is before making the final call.

But I’m a bit wary of the way this show is a bit revisionist. I mean, we have Ed all “I only kill people who hurt me first” and even Jim convinced he isn’t a murderer. I seem to recall him pushing an old lady in a wheelchair out the window in just the previous episode. And what about the actor in the play he killed in season three? Ed generally doesn’t blow up buildings full of people, but the “only people who hurt me” rule is far from true. Oswald was more accurate with his “Oh, he’ll commit a little murder here and there” comment. Then there’s the whole deal where everyone acts like Oswald is the worst thing that’s happened to Gotham, when, no. He’s not. (And I hope that when he does go full monster, it is because he was sick of getting blamed for everything that has gone wrong ever). All that is the say I’m interested to learn the motive, I just hope it fits what we’ve already seen and makes some amount of sense.

[Writing Wrongs]

10 hours ago, Philbert said:

Best part of the episode for me-B.D. Wong channelling George Takei:

 

"oooh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy."

That cracked me up.

 

11 hours ago, festivus said:

Where the hell is Lee! Last I saw, Strange had two bodies to experiment on. 

I keep wondering that too.

[superloislane]

I really hope Ed gets his hair cut soon.

It was almost sweet how Jim didn't really believe Ed could have killed all those people until he basically admitted it

It's pretty funny seeing someone from outside Gotham reacting to all the crazy - 'a puzzle?'

John Wick is in Gotham now! But honestly, I would get revenge for my dog too.

I like when they reference the beginning the show with Selina mentioning how she was in the alley when the Wayne's died. But if I recall correctly, she did seem frightened in that alley not that she didn't care. I liked how they showed Selina and Bruce's different stances on morality without hitting us over the head in this episode.

I love that it's a beautiful moment how Penguin and Ed tell each other that if they kill each other it won't be in a backhanded way.

No mention of Babs and Jim doing the deed last episode

Remember that whole thing about only women allowed at the Sirens and the league of assassins women staying with Barbara? I guess that wasn't a big deal after all.

I don't remember ever getting a scene between Bruce and Harvey by themselves. That was a really good scene 'Kid's fast!'- ha! Now all I need is a Bruce and Ed scene because they have never had one in the same room

You mean Jeremiah isn't dead?! How shocked I am not! I keep loving the actress playing Ecco/Harley - she's doing such a good job with that character. And it looks like his obsession with Bruce is still ongoing - were those Bruce's parents at the end? Did he make people look like them or something?

I can't believe there's only about 7 episodes left!

[WritinMan]

Interesting...I just noticed through closed captioning that the woman Jim was talking to was "Walker." Without CC I thought it was "Waller"--as in Amanda Waller (from Suicide Squad, a mysterious "director" of various bad covert things in the DC universe).

A little disappointed in that.

[Gobi]

2 hours ago, WritinMan said:

Interesting...I just noticed through closed captioning that the woman Jim was talking to was "Walker." Without CC I thought it was "Waller"--as in Amanda Waller (from Suicide Squad, a mysterious "director" of various bad covert things in the DC universe).

A little disappointed in that.

I'm wondering, is "Walker" really Lee after being modified by Strange?

[Danielg342]

21 hours ago, Kostgard said:

I thought that’s how it was going to turn out - Bane being too ruthless in cleaning up Gotham. But now we are left wondering why these are doing this, and how long they’ve been planning to do it (I mean, they already had Strange in their pocket by the time Jeremiah blew everything up, so it’s been a while).

Good point. Does this mean Jeremiah is in the government's pocket too, given all the planning involved?

[Kostgard]

20 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Good point. Does this mean Jeremiah is in the government's pocket too, given all the planning involved?

I’m not sure if Bane is actually working on behalf of the government or if he (and his partners) have gone rogue with their own agenda.

But either way, was Jeremiah in on their plan? Who knows. He and Ra’s teamed up because they had goals that aligned. Did Jeremiah do the same with Bane and Co? Or were they just waiting around for an opportunity, and jumped when Jeremiah provided it? 

[rogvortex58]

Kinda feel bad for Ed. He’s a criminal and a murderer. But he was still forced against his will to kill a whole building full of innocent people. Something I don’t think even he’s capable of.

When I first saw the beginning of the season, I had to wonder why he, of all people, would be taking up arms to defend Gotham, alongside Jim, Bullock and Oswald against this unknown army.

I guess this episode answered that question.

Edited February 4, 2019 by rogvortex58

[jhlipton]

On 1/31/2019 at 8:24 PM, thuganomics85 said:

So, of course, Jeremiah is still alive because he was wearing some kind of powerful body armor that Ecco made for him.  Sure, Gotham.  Of course, Selina probably should have just stabbed his head, if she really wanted to make sure the job was done.

See, Bruce, the problem isn't that Selina "murdered" Jeremiah (which she totally DID NOT DO, the problem is that she didn't murder him enough.  I sure hope she rubs Bruce's moralizing nose in it when Jeremiah starts killing mass nubers of people again.

On 1/31/2019 at 10:40 PM, Kostgard said:

More evidence that Ed just likes to hang his shit on Oswald and always sees him as out to get him, even when he isn’t.   

I love Ed and Oswald's complicated relationship.  They really do care about each other, even as they plot against each other.  Ed has not forgotten that Oswald killed his girlfriend out of pure jealousy.

On 2/1/2019 at 6:21 AM, Sakura12 said:

Jeremiah resurrected Bruce's parents didn't he. Of course he did. 

I hadn't thought of that -- I thought it was his own.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 5:39 PM, Philbert said:

Best part of the episode for me-B.D. Wong channelling George Takei:

"oooh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy."

I knew it was familiar but I didn't realise where from. 

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 3:22 AM, Kostgard said:

I thought that’s how it was going to turn out - Bane being too ruthless in cleaning up Gotham. But now we are left wondering why these are doing this, and how long they’ve been planning to do it (I mean, they already had Strange in their pocket by the time Jeremiah blew everything up, so it’s been a while). And was he really done with Ed, or figured it was a reasonable loss if Jim didn’t stop him from shooting. I guess I’m willing to wait to see what the motivation is before making the final call.

But I’m a bit wary of the way this show is a bit revisionist. I mean, we have Ed all “I only kill people who hurt me first” and even Jim convinced he isn’t a murderer. I seem to recall him pushing an old lady in a wheelchair out the window in just the previous episode. And what about the actor in the play he killed in season three? Ed generally doesn’t blow up buildings full of people, but the “only people who hurt me” rule is far from true. Oswald was more accurate with his “Oh, he’ll commit a little murder here and there” comment. Then there’s the whole deal where everyone acts like Oswald is the worst thing that’s happened to Gotham, when, no. He’s not. (And I hope that when he does go full monster, it is because he was sick of getting blamed for everything that has gone wrong ever). All that is the say I’m interested to learn the motive, I just hope it fits what we’ve already seen and makes some amount of sense.

Yes Ed is ruthless and he does kill but mass murder for its' own sake isn't his style. 

[Joe Hellandback]

1.  Love how the Deadly D turn up, very like Batman's entrance at the art gallery in the Tim Burton Batman movie.  

2. A nice ep for Harvey, a little scared at being 2nd best compared to Jim's old friend and giving a great speech to Bruce.

3.  Be nice to give Alfred a little more to do? Still with J's plan I can see a more major role for him. 

4.  And when is Lee going to turn up?

5.  The Ed/Oswald face off is great, we never do get an answer about 'Edward'. Ed pointing out 'You killed Butch' is so true. 

6.  Jim warns GI Joe if he goes up against Scarecrow he'll need breathing apparatus? Hmmmmm….? What might Scarecrow have waiting for him and how might it affect him?

7.  Selina at the Sirens, drowning her sorrows? Does she ever ask about Tabby?

8. The reveal about the Army came a bit too soon, it would have been nice to stretch out the mystery a little longer. But the Penguin has a point, if this was real relief there would tanks and trucks etc 

9. Ed has a chip in his head and is being used as a sleeper agent assassin? Boy, someone's been watching Buffy in the writer's room? 

10. Oh my god they cut open Ed's head! Thought this show was supposed to be 15 rated?

11. Sort of disappointed they resurrected Jerimiah so easily, his plan with Selina sounds incredibly risky but he is insane.  

12. Took me a long time to realise that Mr J had created fake parents for Bruce, I was thinking he was giving people Joke smiles. 

7/10

[John Potts]

I guess this is the break ups episode (Edd/Penguin, Bruce/Selina, Jim/Army buddy)? Or at least relationships under strain. Though at least we get the closest thing to a declaration of love from the Ed & Oswald ("If I kill you, I'll look you in the eye while I do it!") You see, they do care.

I guess the writers have watched Buffy, Season 4, what with the chip in Edd's head and the evil government troops.

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 4:03 AM, Lantern7 said:

Look at the hand reaching for the bookshelf. At that point, how did Jim not see the trap coming via false-book pull? Dumb, Jim. Really dumb.

Yeah, that was pretty dumb (Eduardo actually turned away when he had the guy in his sights). But we got a good old fashioned death trap! And a suitably Riddler-esque solution.

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 9:43 PM, tennisgurl said:

Interesting that Barbara, Ed, and even to a lesser degree penguin, are truly horrified and pissed about the deaths of the civilians at Haven, but its the military that is apparently behind the mass killing.

As always, the real monsters are in the government... in fiction, at least.

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 9:43 PM, tennisgurl said:

I think that might have been one of the first times we have had Harvey and Bruce in a scene just the two of them.

And Bruce did the "Stealth Bye" on him!

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 5:35 PM, superloislane said:

Remember that whole thing about only women allowed at the Sirens and the league of assassins women staying with Barbara? I guess that wasn't a big deal after all.

As I recall, men were allowed in for "recreational" purposes, within certain hours.

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 9:21 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

Jim warns GI Joe if he goes up against Scarecrow he'll need breathing apparatus? Hmmmmm….? What might Scarecrow have waiting for him and how might it affect him?

We already know (from Season 1, I think?) that Venom* exists in Gotham.

* The drug, not the Spider-man villain.

Edited June 14, 2019 by John Potts

[Joe Hellandback]

21 minutes ago, John Potts said:

I guess this is the break ups episode (Edd/Penguin, Bruce/Selina, Jim/Army buddy)? Or at least relationships under strain. Though at least we get the closest thing to a declaration of love from the Ed & Oswald ("If I kill you, I'll look you in the eye while I do it!") You see, they do care.

I guess the writers have watched Buffy, Season 4, what with the

Yeah, that was pretty dumb (Eduardo actually turned away when he had the guy in his sights). But we got a good old fashioned death trap! And a suitably Riddler-esque solution.

As always, the real monsters are in the government... in fiction, at least.

And Bruce did the "Stealth Bye" on him!

As I recall, men were allowed in for "recreational" purposes, within certain hours.

We already know (from Season 1, I think?) that Venom* exists in Gotham.

* The drug, not the Spider-man villain.

I was actually thinking of Buffy s7 with Spike although you could compare them to the Initiative?

[John Potts]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

I was actually thinking of Buffy s7 with Spike although you could compare them to the Initiative?

Yeah, I was imagining the Initiative, with the mind control and soldiers with sinister motives (and I've now edited my post to finish that sentence!).