S03.E09: Buying a Town (Part 1)

[Sew Sumi]

Quote

In 1974, operating under an alias, the Church of Scientology moves into Clearwater, FL and proceeds to make the city its spiritual headquarters; in 1977, an FBI raid uncovers the church's secret plans to take over the city.

Airs January 22, 2019

Edited January 22, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[DC Gal in VA]

Watching this episode now and I hope I am not the only one. Looking forward to a robust discussion tonight. All I can say is, barely at the half way point, mind totally blown AND former Mayor Cazares and former Clearwater Police Lieutenant Hammon are my newest heroes!😍

Edited January 23, 2019 by DC Gal in VA
Additional comments.

[SailorGirl]

I moved to a town just north of Clearwater and last week I had to go to a training at a hotel in Clearwater Beach, necessitating my driving through downtown Clearwater and "scientology central." The clips they showed of the buildings and the sidewalks completely empty are what it looks like ALL THE TIME. I was driving through there around 8:00 am -- a time when you expect to see people walking to work, popping into the coffee shop, etc. The sidewalks were empty -- it almost seems like a movie set -- same at 5:15 - 5:30 -- a car parked on the street here and there and only a random person every so often (they weren't in uniform, so I can't say for sure they were scientologists, but it is a safe assumption). You definitely do feel weird driving through there. I wanted to try to take some pictures to share here, but I was afraid they'd ping my tags and strange things would start happening! 

I was passing the Fort Harrison one morning and their airport shuttle was there (yes, they have their own), with the driver assisting two men to load their luggage into the shuttle. All I could think was, "how big of a check did those two write in order to be able to leave?" 

I do find it highly amusing, though, that along one of the main streets where a lot of shops are is a Christian Science Reading Room. I don't know how the cult hasn't managed to get rid of it. 

The show doesn't seem to make this clear, but Clearwater Beach and the hotels and touristy/beach area are not adjacent to downtown Clearwater and scientology, nor do you have to go through downtown Clearwater to get to Clearwater Beach. Clearwater Beach is pretty much what you imagine a beach town/destination to be. 

I wonder how many of those in scientology even know this beautiful area is just a mile or two away. Sadly, I doubt they do -- based on the show, we know they aren't allowed to do anything outside the cult. 

Prior to moving to this area, I only peripherally knew about the crazy that is Scientology. Being so close to it all, however, I've become really fascinated (and appalled and stunned) by how horrific it really is. 

Edit to add: I spoke to soon re: the show being clear that downtown is separate from the beach area. The google earth shot made it clear. 
Also, I'm so glad the Aquarium director stood up to Miss Cabbage -- a friend and I went there when she visited and they are doing great work -- they're also expanding their facility -- something I'm sure just grinds his tiny teeth . . . :-)


 

Edited January 23, 2019 by SailorGirl

[DC Gal in VA]

19 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

I moved to a town just north of Clearwater and last week I had to go to a training at a hotel in Clearwater Beach, necessitating my driving through downtown Clearwater and "scientology central." The clips they showed of the buildings and the sidewalks completely empty are what it looks like ALL THE TIME. I was driving through there around 8:00 am -- a time when you expect to see people walking to work, popping into the coffee shop, etc. The sidewalks were empty -- it almost seems like a movie set -- same at 5:15 - 5:30 -- a car parked on the street here and there and only a random person every so often (they weren't in uniform, so I can't say for sure they were scientologists, but it is a safe assumption). You definitely do feel weird driving through there. I wanted to try to take some pictures to share here, but I was afraid they'd ping my tags and strange things would start happening! 

I was passing the Fort Harrison one morning and their airport shuttle was there (yes, they have their own), with the driver assisting two men to load their luggage into the shuttle. All I could think was, "how big of a check did those two write in order to be able to leave?" 

I do find it highly amusing, though, that along one of the main streets where a lot of shops are is a Christian Science Reading Room. I don't know how the cult hasn't managed to get rid of it. 

The show doesn't seem to make this clear, but Clearwater Beach and the hotels and touristy/beach area are not adjacent to downtown Clearwater and scientology, nor do you have to . go through downtown Clearwater to get to Clearwater Beach. Clearwater Beach is pretty much what you imagine a beach town/destination to be. 

I wonder how many of those in scientology even know this beautiful area is just a mile or two away. Sadly, I doubt they do -- based on the show, we know they aren't allowed to do anything outside the cult. 

Prior to moving to this area, I only peripherally knew about the crazy that is Scientology. Being so close to it all, however, I've become really fascinated (and appalled and stunned) by how horrific it really is. 


 

Damn @SailorGirl all I can say to that is, I have no words. Thanks for your in-person observations.

[SailorGirl]

3 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Damn @SailorGirl all I can say to that is, I have no words. Thanks for your in-person observations.

I'm glad to be able to share them, and I'm happy to answer questions about the area as best I can.

There are county (maybe city?) government buildings basically across the street from the Fort Harrison as you turn right past the hotel to head to the bridge that takes you over to the beach (Court Road/Street). 

The immediate area just beyond the strip of scientology buildings they showed is not well taken care of at all. That vacant lot they showed is maybe a block or two from the "Volunteer Center." The vacant lot, and all the main Scientology buildings (volunteer center, Human Rights, etc. as well as the Fort Harrison, and Flag) are along Alt 19, which is the main road through downtown Clearwater. 

Oh, and the garage entry for the Fort Harrison is heavily gated -- its not like its just an arm that raises and lowers when you take a ticket -- you can't just drive in like you can at most hotels. I didn't see any cars in there (admittedly, I was driving and could only glance at it while I sat at the traffic light). I was genuinely wondering if anybody was being forced to sleep on one of the garage levels. . . 

Edited January 23, 2019 by SailorGirl

[3girlsforus]

I just started watching this but seriously - they called the campaign to get rid of a Hispanic mayor ‘Taco-less” ????

[Guest]

When Leah kept crying, it made me emotional. :(

[SailorGirl]

Multiple people are tweeting to Mike Rinder that Spectrum (one of the main cable providers in the Tampa/St. Pete area) curiously had "problems" between 9 pm and 10 pm and A & E was the only channel they weren't able to get. Then at 10, apparently it was all fine again. Spectrum says "a cable was cut in another part of the state." Marc Headley tweeted that he wouldn't be surprised if they hired people to drive around and jam radio frequencies -- per Marc's tweet, they hire people to go buy all the newspapers when there is a negative story published about them, so this isn't out of the realm of possibility. . . .

I don't have traditional cable, so I didn't have any issues -- I'm 10 minutes north of Clearwater. . . . 

[Ina123]

I just feel frustrated when I watch. How is this happening? <that's rhetorical>

I'm amazed that they are going to do an expose on Lisa Mcpherson next week. What a story.

They've had Paulette Cooper on but I would love to see an extended program with her full story. People need to know. Most likely Paulette just does not want any more exposure but it is the one $cientology story that I know would knock the socks off of people if told in full on this program. It could happen to anyone.

[blondiek237]

27 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

I just feel frustrated when I watch. How is this happening? <that's rhetorical>

I'm amazed that they are going to do an expose on Lisa Mcpherson next week. What a story.

They've had Paulette Cooper on but I would love to see an extended program with her full story. People need to know. Most likely Paulette just does not want any more exposure but it is the one $cientology story that I know would knock the socks off of people if told in full on this program. It could happen to anyone.

There is a book--the something Miss Lovely (can't remember the name read it years ago) what they did to her was terrible

[Ina123]

39 minutes ago, blondiek237 said:

There is a book--the something Miss Lovely (can't remember the name read it years ago) what they did to her was terrible

I've read the book. So few people are going to read a book. Leah has the attention. Do a special on Paulette.

I've been reading and studying about the problems with this organization for years - ever since the IRS raid in the 70s. None of this is new to me.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Ina123

[veronicamers]

This was a fascinating episode. I appreciated seeing Leah get emotional about her childhood years in Clearwater. A lot of that ground was covered in her book, but I feel like it is rare on the show that she opens up about her personal experiences. I found it quite moving.

I had a work trip to a resort in Clearwater Beach a couple of years ago. I made sure to drive through downtown Clearwater to see Scientology "mecca." I agree that the streets were oddly quiet. I snapped some photos of Ft. Harrison from the car to send to my fellow Scientology obsessed BFF. On the way back to the airport, I stopped at a bagel shop in Clearwater that I saw some good reviews online for. It was delicious, but y'all know I was looking for clues as to whether the owners were Scientologists! 

[iMonrey]

I haven't read Leah's book but now I kind of want to. This was a more personal episode for her than a lot of them have been. Did her mother's boyfriend stay behind, sell all their stuff then just pocket the money and run off? I guess the loot her collected on their stuff turned out to be way more attractive than Scientology. How sad that Leah's mother didn't take that as a wake-up call. 

I'm still not sure how this organization is making so much money since their membership has dwindled so far. I know they own a ton of property they don't have to pay taxes on but surely they have to pay for some upkeep and they're not making any revenue off of it either.

[Cobb Salad]

18 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I haven't read Leah's book but now I kind of want to. This was a more personal episode for her than a lot of them have been. Did her mother's boyfriend stay behind, sell all their stuff then just pocket the money and run off? I guess the loot her collected on their stuff turned out to be way more attractive than Scientology. How sad that Leah's mother didn't take that as a wake-up call. 

I'm still not sure how this organization is making so much money since their membership has dwindled so far. I know they own a ton of property they don't have to pay taxes on but surely they have to pay for some upkeep and they're not making any revenue off of it either.

I haven’t read her book either but regarding the story about the stepfather running off - I wonder if Leah’s mother talked to him about the poor conditions they were in when they first got down there and then he decided not to go.  Maybe the book gives more insight into this story?

Watching the show last night I was amazed at the lengths these people go to harass people that go against this supposed “church”.   I am hoping that one day they will overstep and encounter someone or a group that puts an end to it for good.  

[geekgirl921]

4 hours ago, Ina123 said:

I've read the book. So few people are going to read a book. Leah has the attention. Do a special on Paulette.

I've been reading and studying about the problems with this organization for years - ever since the IRS raid in the 70s. None of this is new to me.

They did an Ask Me Anything special with Paulette in 2016.

[Maelstrom]

50 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I haven't read Leah's book but now I kind of want to. This was a more personal episode for her than a lot of them have been. Did her mother's boyfriend stay behind, sell all their stuff then just pocket the money and run off?

25 minutes ago, Cobb Salad said:

I haven’t read her book either but regarding the story about the stepfather running off - I wonder if Leah’s mother talked to him about the poor conditions they were in when they first got down there and then he decided not to go.  Maybe the book gives more insight into this story?

It's been a couple of years since I read her book, but I seem to recall that the stepfather just kept putting off his move to Clearwater, and (IIRC?) ended up splitting from Leah's mother and taking up with another woman without ever leaving NY. Again, my memory isn't as good as it used to be, so grain of salt and all that, lol.

This has been a fascinating season so far, and this episode was no exception. It was really interesting to hear Leah's own reflections on Clearwater's role in her life. I give her credit for generally trying to stay back and let the guests' stories speak for themselves, but it was quite touching to hear something more personal to Leah.

I really appreciate this year has featured more people with a wider range of experiences. I've been going down the CO$ rabbit hole for several years now, so at this point I'm pretty familiar with the usual suspects, as it were - the Headleys, Rathbun (pre-crazy), Tom DeVocht, etc. And their stories are crucial to know, and essential to more people speaking out, but it's been very interesting to hear from more people as they choose to come forward, as well as people whose stories just haven't been widely told before, like Mayor Cazares. I'd never heard of him, and truly hate to imagine the extent of the harassment he must have endured as Clearwater's mayor. And wow, talk about racist Op names - "Taco-less" and "Speedy Gonzalez." Guess I shouldn't be so surprised to discover to find racism added to the CO$'s list of transgressions. *shakes head*

It is so sad to hear how Clearwater has been stripped of its heart by the CO$ takeover. Looking forward to next week's coverage of Benchgate and the Lisa McPherson story. I'm both surprised and gratified that they're finally going there and telling Lisa's story - every time I read accounts of her death it sickens me. Leah isn't pulling her punches this season, and I'm continually grateful for the work she and Mike are doing here, hard as it must be.

[green]

4 hours ago, Ina123 said:

I've read the book. So few people are going to read a book. Leah has the attention. Do a special on Paulette.

I've been reading and studying about the problems with this organization for years - ever since the IRS raid in the 70s. None of this is new to me.

 

They did.  She was there talking with Leah and Mike.  There were a couple of other people on who went through hell too as I recall so she wasn't on as a solo guest only.

 

35 minutes ago, geekgirl921 said:

They did an Ask Me Anything special with Paulette in 2016.

There you go.  Confirmation I didn't hallucinate it.

So 1975 was the year the CO$ Plague came to Clearwater then?  Weird cause that was the year I left the place.  Glad I never saw it held hostage by a terrorist group which is what is happening to it now for sure.  It was such a nice place before the plague came.  So many cool childhood memories.  So sad to see it this way now.

Edited January 23, 2019 by green

[geekgirl921]

35 minutes ago, green said:

They did.  She was there talking with Leah and Mike.  There were a couple of other people on who went through hell too as I recall so she wasn't on as a solo guest only.

 

There you go.  Confirmation I didn't hallucinate it.

So 1975 was the year the CO$ Plague came to Clearwater then?  Weird cause that was the year I left the place.  Glad I never saw it held hostage by a terrorist group which is what is happening to it now for sure.  It was such a nice place before the plague came.  So many cool childhood memories.  So sad to see it this way now.

I actually wasn't so sure but was pretty sure I remembered it so I went to The Underground Bunker just to verify.

[libgirl2]

I fell asleep before it came on. I really want to see this. I read Leah's book and remember (memory isn't as good either) some of her recollections of being there. 

[libgirl2]

For some reason, I had my response tripled! 

Edited January 23, 2019 by libgirl2

[veronicamers]

1 hour ago, Maelstrom said:

It's been a couple of years since I read her book, but I seem to recall that the stepfather just kept putting off his move to Clearwater, and (IIRC?) ended up splitting from Leah's mother and taking up with another woman without ever leaving NY. Again, my memory isn't as good as it used to be, so grain of salt and all that, lol.

That's what I recall as well. I'm pretty sure he never came to Clearwater and peaced out with another woman, leaving Leah, her mom, and two sisters to make it on their own. Ironic that he's the one who led the family to Scientology, then never had to suffer living under their structure in Florida and California.

[MelissaMinion]

17 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

I just started watching this but seriously - they called the campaign to get rid of a Hispanic mayor ‘Taco-less” ????

This mayor made news for speaking out in the 1990s about the Taco Bell Chihuahua being offensive and demeaning to Mexicans. So of course, they incorporated a Taco Bell reference in their plots against him. 

[Maelstrom]

23 minutes ago, MelissaMinion said:

This mayor made news for speaking out in the 1990s about the Taco Bell Chihuahua being offensive and demeaning to Mexicans. So of course, they incorporated a Taco Bell reference in their plots against him. 

I thought their ops against Cazares occurred in the late 70s/early 80s, when he was in office.

[Carolina Girl]

14 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

Multiple people are tweeting to Mike Rinder that Spectrum (one of the main cable providers in the Tampa/St. Pete area) curiously had "problems" between 9 pm and 10 pm and A & E was the only channel they weren't able to get. Then at 10, apparently it was all fine again. Spectrum says "a cable was cut in another part of the state." Marc Headley tweeted that he wouldn't be surprised if they hired people to drive around and jam radio frequencies -- per Marc's tweet, they hire people to go buy all the newspapers when there is a negative story published about them, so this isn't out of the realm of possibility. . . .

I don't have traditional cable, so I didn't have any issues -- I'm 10 minutes north of Clearwater. . . . 

Haha.  Wonder what they did to stop the Satellite subscribers?  Slingshot into space?  Ask Xenu to use his intergalactic powers?

8 hours ago, blondiek237 said:

There is a book--the something Miss Lovely (can't remember the name read it years ago) what they did to her was terrible

The Unbreakable Miss Loveley by Tony Ortega.  You can get it at Amazon.  

[Sew Sumi]

52 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

I thought their ops against Cazares occurred in the late 70s/early 80s, when he was in office.

They were. He was mayor from 1975-78. The FBI raid happened in '78.

[Twopper]

5 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

It's been a couple of years since I read her book, but I seem to recall that the stepfather just kept putting off his move to Clearwater, and (IIRC?) ended up splitting from Leah's mother and taking up with another woman without ever leaving NY. Again, my memory isn't as good as it used to be, so grain of salt and all that, lol.

I was sorta confused about this when I heard about how he sold all their stuff and never went to Clearwater. I guess he kept the money.  Earlier this season  (or maybe it was another season) she mentioned all the money her mother and step-father had spent on Co$ so I guess this step-father is a different person.

[CrystalBlue]

22 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

I just started watching this but seriously - they called the campaign to get rid of a Hispanic mayor ‘Taco-less” ????

Yeah, and Speedy Gonzalez.  Atrocious.

[princelina]

10 hours ago, veronicamers said:

This was a fascinating episode. I appreciated seeing Leah get emotional about her childhood years in Clearwater. A lot of that ground was covered in her book, but I feel like it is rare on the show that she opens up about her personal experiences. I found it quite moving.

I wish they could get her mom to really talk on the show.  I understand why Leah and Mike were so involved - they were brought in as children and raised to believe, and most of their guests are the same.  I would like to hear from one who joined as an adult and found it compelling enough to drag her whole family into this "mission"

[Giselle]

I wonder what has to happen for DOJ and the FBI to grow a pair and go after these monsters? 

Does someone else have to die?

8 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

They were. He was mayor from 1975-78. The FBI raid happened in '78.

 

40 years ago.

[MisterBluxom]

Wow! This show just keeps on getting better. Each episode seems more powerful than the previous.

It seems that so many people would like to see the end of This Scam (TS) and would like to help if they only knew how. The sad truth is that many of us just don't know how or are unsure how to go about it. Mike Rinder has said that one good way to help is for people to contact their elected federal govt officials and he has started to outline exactly how we can do that. If you check his blog site (by searching for "mike rinder blog") you will see he posts a new entry every day and one recent episode (I believe it was 2 or 3 days ago) contains all the info and makes it easer than ever before for anyone to contact their govt reps and make their feelings known.

I have suggested that a few ordinary people (like me) could contribute a small amount of money to commission a public opinion poll from a trusted polling corp (like Gallup). The poll could ask all Americans just 2 or 3 simple questions:

1) Do you believe that Scientology is really a church or a religion?

2) Do you believe they deserve their tax exempt status.

3) I'm quite certain there are at least 3 questions but I can't remember any more just now.

Now public awareness has been brought to new heights thanks to Leah and Mike and their Aftermath TV program, I would expect that many people are familiar with TS (The Scam) and could provide honest answers to those questions.

Once people could truthfully say, "According to a recent Gallup Poll, x% of Americans do not believe this is a religion and y% of Americans do not believe they deserve any tax exempt status.

Every time people speak about TS, they could start by reading that sentence. I believe it would take a great deal of wind out of their sales to have that statement heard over and over again. Each time would be like pounding another nail into the coffin of The Scam.

There is another project I have in mind that could also hasten the demise of this scam. I will post about that later.

The important thing is not what I want to see happen. The important thing is what you all want to see happen.

After all, remember that guy who said something about "government of the people, by the people and for the people".  Was he wrong about that?

 

P.S. Here is that entry in Mike Rinder's blog referred to above:  https://www.mikerindersblog.org/what-can-you-do-to-help-end-scientology-abuses/

Edited January 24, 2019 by MisterBluxom

[DC Gal in VA]

Have any of you ever read or seen something that hits you like a ton of bricks, leaving you so emotionally impacted that you struggle to find the words to express how you feel? Well, I feel that way every week after watching another installment of this show. Just when I think that the antics of the Co$ can't get any more outrageous and downright evil, Leah and Mike peel back yet another layer of that foul, rotten onion. I was totally ignorant of that organization's goal of taking over an entire town let alone all of the methods used to bully and terrorize anyone who got in their way.

Please someone tell me how in the Hell they have not been successfully sued for libel? They were publicly putting out outright lies about the mayor and the police lieutenant.

I have so much more to say but, as I I already said, I struggle to put into words my feelings of disgust and loathing for what is, IMHO, nothing more than an ongoing criminal enterprise no different from the Mafia, outlaw biker gangs or MS-13, albeit with even way less integrity than those groups.

Since TCo$ openly engages in libel, slander, stalking, etc. and behind the scenes beatings, imprisonment--which is really kidnapping (hello Feds, are you even trying to pay attention?)--and scamming their members out of millions of dollars, is it too far fetched to wonder if some in their organization have actually killed people? I for one wouldn't be surprised.

[Skycatcher]

59 minutes ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Please someone tell me how in the Hell they have not been successfully sued for libel? 

Deep pockets.  CO$ will use every slimy tactic in the book to personally destroy anyone who sues them, as well as field a financially-backed team of endless lawyers. Eventually you'd run out of money while with their billions, they could go on forever.

ETA: They have so many resources they could tie you up into your next two lifetimes.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Skycatcher

[Rlb8031]

13 hours ago, Twopper said:

I was sorta confused about this when I heard about how he sold all their stuff and never went to Clearwater. I guess he kept the money.  Earlier this season  (or maybe it was another season) she mentioned all the money her mother and step-father had spent on Co$ so I guess this step-father is a different person.

Nope, its the same guy. They spent a ton of money in NYC for both of them to get onto the bridge (remember the guy 1-2 episodes ago said it was $35k just for him to get to clear). That was for services for both of them, Leah and her older sister. They did that for a period of time and I *think* the mom and dad were both working at the org in Manhattan at the time they decided to join the Sea Org and move. The dad stayed behind to wrap things up - but evidently, there had been some tensions in the relationship and he started seeing another woman he met at the org. He stayed in NY, and if I'm not mistaken, stayed in $cientology as well. I don't think this was an unusual story re: families splitting up. There seems to be a lot of -ahem- FLEXIBILITY within Co$ when it comes to marriages and relationships because you're going to come back in your next life anyway and the next time around your wife could be your child, or your neighbor could be your wife. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Rlb8031

[DC Gal in VA]

37 minutes ago, Skycatcher said:

Deep pockets.  CO$ will use every slimy tactic in the book to personally destroy anyone who sues them, as well as field a financially-backed team of endless lawyers. Eventually you'd run out of money while with their billions, they could go on forever

Yes, I can see that. However, in 1988--that's 30 years ago--one woman who escaped from The Free Love Ministries, another cult, and, without a dime in her pocket successfully sued them, regained her children from the cult AND won a 1.2 million dollar award against them which, to a certain extent, financially destroyed that group. Although they subsequently trashed the properties she won, they were never the same. Granted, although they did not have anywhere near the resources of Co$, I truly believe, on a larger scale, that TCo$ can be brought to their knees, or at least be dealt a significant financial blow in 2019.

Here's a link to that cult and how they were eventually brought down: 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggressive_Christianity_Missionary_Training_Corps

Another thing that could happen is to start small. What I mean by that is instead of going after these scumbags by trying to yank their tax exempt status and/or criminal prosecutions, instead start by stripping away the whole "ministerial exceptions" rule under U. S. labor laws mentioned in a previous episode about the man who was grievously injured and lost an eye while working on a Co$ construction project without the proper safety equipment. Of course there might be religious groups who would want to keep that exemption and come to the defense of Co$. However, they too would end up shining a not so favorable light on their own practices AND I believe that legitimate people of faith would also come forward and support stripping that "right" and then at least we could begin to chip away at Scamatology and others of their ilk.

Edited January 24, 2019 by DC Gal in VA

[SailorGirl]

Today's Tampa Bay Times:

 

http://www.tampabay.com/clearwater/leah-reminis-scientology-show-puts-clearwater-in-national-spotlight-20190123/

 

Interesting highlights:

-- “Clearwater is more than the Church of Scientology,” said Mayor George Cretekos, who did not watch the episode or any of the series.

-- City Council member Hoyt Hamilton denied city officials have bowed to Scientology. Elected officials cannot prohibit a religious organization from buying property or operating its international headquarters in Clearwater, he said.

“To make it sound like the local elected officials are just acquiescing to Scientology, nothing could be further from the truth,” said Hamilton, who is in his fourth term on the council since an appointment in 2001. “We have to play the hand we’re dealt with. The only people that can deal me a better hand than what we have is the federal government. That’s not something the city of Clearwater has the resources to do. The federal government gave them their tax exempt status. The federal government is the only one that can take it away. We can’t do anything to change that.”  [TECHNICALLY TRUE, BUT THERE'S A LOT YOU CAN DO, LIKE HAVE YOUR CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT ACT IMPARTIALLY, RATHER THAN BEING THE COS EXTENDED SECURITY TEAM].
 

-- Frank Hibbard, who served as mayor from 2005 to 2012, said he was unable to watch the episode Tuesday because of a widely reported Spectrum outage that occurred at the beginning of the 9 p.m. airing.

--While the church owns significant real estate, there are still businesses and employees “that have nothing to do with Scientology.” “I’m looking out my window, I’m looking at the Presbyterian church, I’m looking at City Hall, I’m looking at the county building,” Hibbard said from his financial advisory office in One Clearwater Tower. [MY NOTE: THESE ARE NOT BUSINESSES -- THEY ARE A RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION AND TWO GOVERNMENT OFFICES].

-- "There is not consistent foot traffic because there is currently no array of retail and restaurants." [MY NOTE: THIS IS A SUBJECTIVE STATEMENT -- THERE ARE RESTAURANTS AND SHOPS. IS THERE A STRONG RETAIL DEVELOPMENT OR A "MAIN STREET" TYPE OF AREA? NO. BUT THERE ARE SHOPS AND RESTAURANTS. AND PARKING ISN'T AN ISSUE.]

-- It’s “a chicken or the egg” scenario, however, whether the void is because of Scientology’s presence or whether Scientology’s presence is able to dominate because there is no other draw. . . [MY NOTE: SERIOUSLY DUDE? WHAT NON-COS COMPANY OR PERSON WANTS TO PUT A BUSINESS IN THAT AREA KNOWING HOW CRAZY THEY ARE?] 

Edited January 24, 2019 by SailorGirl

[DrSparkles]

2 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Have any of you ever read or seen something that hits you like a ton of bricks, leaving you so emotionally impacted that you struggle to find the words to express how you feel? Well, I feel that way every week after watching another installment of this show. Just when I think that the antics of the Co$ can't get any more outrageous and downright evil, Leah and Mike peel back yet another layer of that foul, rotten onion. I was totally ignorant of that organization's goal of taking over an entire town let alone all of the methods used to bully and terrorize anyone who got in their way.

Please someone tell me how in the Hell they have not been successfully sued for libel? They were publicly putting out outright lies about the mayor and the police lieutenant.

I have so much more to say but, as I I already said, I struggle to put into words my feelings of disgust and loathing for what is, IMHO, nothing more than an ongoing criminal enterprise no different from the Mafia, outlaw biker gangs or MS-13, albeit with even way less integrity than those groups.

Since TCo$ openly engages in libel, slander, stalking, etc. and behind the scenes beatings, imprisonment--which is really kidnapping (hello Feds, are you even trying to pay attention?)--and scamming their members out of millions of dollars, is it too far fetched to wonder if some in their organization have actually killed people? I for one wouldn't be surprised.

ME. This is ME every week too. My friend who watches this with me, all we can say at breaks or afterward is "damn" or "what the HELL?" or "WHAT????"

[green]

12 hours ago, princelina said:

I wish they could get her mom to really talk on the show.  I understand why Leah and Mike were so involved - they were brought in as children and raised to believe, and most of their guests are the same.  I would like to hear from one who joined as an adult and found it compelling enough to drag her whole family into this "mission"

Her mom did talk on the show and ended up in a puddle of tears as she still feels quilty to having dragged her children into that cult.

 

2 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

... is it too far fetched to wonder if some in their organization have actually killed people? I for one wouldn't be surprised.

Be sure to tune into this coming Tuesday's episode to find out.

Thanks to SailorGirl for the whole post and especially for this being mentioned again:  -- Frank Hibbard, who served as mayor from 2005 to 2012, said he was unable to watch the episode Tuesday because of a widely reported Spectrum outage that occurred at the beginning of the 9 p.m. airing.

Which concurs with what you posted earlier which really REALLY needed to be reiterated here:

Quote

Multiple people are tweeting to Mike Rinder that Spectrum (one of the main cable providers in the Tampa/St. Pete area) curiously had "problems" between 9 pm and 10 pm and A & E was the only channel they weren't able to get. Then at 10, apparently it was all fine again. Spectrum says "a cable was cut in another part of the state." Marc Headley tweeted that he wouldn't be surprised if they hired people to drive around and jam radio frequencies -- per Marc's tweet, they hire people to go buy all the newspapers when there is a negative story published about them, so this isn't out of the realm of possibility. . . .

So now CO$ is tampering with well over a 100,000 cable customers in an effort to shut down this show and suppress both the truth and free speech.  And you know law enforcement won't do a damn thing about it.  A&E should re-run this episode 24/7 in that area for the next week.

[Twopper]

2 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

Nope, its the same guy. They spent a ton of money in NYC for both of them to get onto the bridge (remember the guy 1-2 episodes ago said it was $35k just for him to get to clear). That was for services for both of them, Leah and her older sister. They did that for a period of time and I *think* the mom and dad were both working at the org in Manhattan at the time they decided to join the Sea Org and move. The dad stayed behind to wrap things up - but evidently, there had been some tensions in the relationship and he started seeing another woman he met at the org. He stayed in NY, and if I'm not mistaken, stayed in $cientology as well. I don't think this was an unusual story re: families splitting up. There seems to be a lot of -ahem- FLEXIBILITY within Co$ when it comes to marriages and relationships because you're going to come back in your next life anyway and the next time around your wife could be your child, or your neighbor could be your wife. 

thanks for unconfusing me

[EVS]

If anyone is interested, here is a link to an article I remember reading in The Underground Bunker that details the ‘hit and run’ plot to destroy/discredit Mayor Cazares. It’s long, but fascinating, IMO, and yet another example of the lengths scientology will go to in order to destroy its “enemies”.

 

https://tonyortega.org/2017/12/12/for-the-first-time-the-fbi-file-of-gabe-cazares-the-clearwater-mayor-targeted-by-scientology/

[libgirl2]

52 minutes ago, green said:

 

Which concurs with what you posted earlier which really REALLY needed to be reiterated here:

So now CO$ is tampering with well over a 100,000 cable customers in an effort to shut down this show and suppress both the truth and free speech.  And you know law enforcement won't do a damn thing about it.  A&E should re-run this episode 24/7 in that area for the next week.

I do not put it past them at all. 

[Ina123]

22 hours ago, green said:

They did.  She was there talking with Leah and Mike.  There were a couple of other people on who went through hell too as I recall so she wasn't on as a solo guest only.

 

There you go.  Confirmation I didn't hallucinate it.

So 1975 was the year the CO$ Plague came to Clearwater then?  Weird cause that was the year I left the place.  Glad I never saw it held hostage by a terrorist group which is what is happening to it now for sure.  It was such a nice place before the plague came.  So many cool childhood memories.  So sad to see it this way now.

I saw all that but I'm talking about something like a 2 hour special just to cover what happened to her. Specifically, how close she came to prison on CO$ trumped up charges. She was just days from a prison cell, left with nothing and it bled her parents dry also. Yes, there was a final settlement which she is not allowed to disclose, but most of it can be exposed. When I read the book I scared to death at what they were able to do to her.

I'm delighted that the Lisa Mcpherson case is going to be covered.

[funky-rat]

5 hours ago, Skycatcher said:

Deep pockets.  CO$ will use every slimy tactic in the book to personally destroy anyone who sues them, as well as field a financially-backed team of endless lawyers. Eventually you'd run out of money while with their billions, they could go on forever.

ETA: They have so many resources they could tie you up into your next two lifetimes.

Also,  their PI's, paid harassers, etc, aren't Scamatology.  They're contractors.  Plausible deniability.  "We didn't hire them to do that.  We didn't tell them to do that.  They're not Scamatology members".

[EVS]

1 hour ago, Ina123 said:

I saw all that but I'm talking about something like a 2 hour special just to cover what happened to her. Specifically, how close she came to prison on CO$ trumped up charges. She was just days from a prison cell, left with nothing and it bled her parents dry also. Yes, there was a final settlement which she is not allowed to disclose, but most of it can be exposed. When I read the book I scared to death at what they were able to do to her.

I'm delighted that the Lisa Mcpherson case is going to be covered.

I agree with this. I read The Unbreakable Miss Lovely, and the details of what was done to Paulette Cooper are, IMO, seriously twisted and disturbing, even for Scientology.  I would love to see a special where she tells her whole story in detail.

[DNR]

Downtown Clearwater looks SO CREEPY on TV , must be disturbing in person ! 

I love this show & Leah Remini. Imagine being a small child and suddenly your separated from your parents living in a roach motel.... i can’t even. 

Hope this show can make a difference but going up against that 💴💴💴💰💰💰💰 it seems impossible 

[Giselle]

7 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Have any of you ever read or seen something that hits you like a ton of bricks, leaving you so emotionally impacted that you struggle to find the words to express how you feel? Well, I feel that way every week after watching another installment of this show. Just when I think that the antics of the Co$ can't get any more outrageous and downright evil, Leah and Mike peel back yet another layer of that foul, rotten onion. I was totally ignorant of that organization's goal of taking over an entire town let alone all of the methods used to bully and terrorize anyone who got in their way.

Please someone tell me how in the Hell they have not been successfully sued for libel? They were publicly putting out outright lies about the mayor and the police lieutenant.

I have so much more to say but, as I I already said, I struggle to put into words my feelings of disgust and loathing for what is, IMHO, nothing more than an ongoing criminal enterprise no different from the Mafia, outlaw biker gangs or MS-13, albeit with even way less integrity than those groups.

Since TCo$ openly engages in libel, slander, stalking, etc. and behind the scenes beatings, imprisonment--which is really kidnapping (hello Feds, are you even trying to pay attention?)--and scamming their members out of millions of dollars, is it too far fetched to wonder if some in their organization have actually killed people? I for one wouldn't be surprised.

 

What the fuck has to happen for this become a civil rights case, a RICO case, a child endangerment case, a hate crime case.

I'll say it again...

What has to happen for our federal justice departments to act? 

[princelina]

5 hours ago, green said:

Her mom did talk on the show and ended up in a puddle of tears as she still feels quilty to having dragged her children into that cult.

I know but that's pretty much all she did, while they hugged and loved her.  I would like someone (doesn't have to be her if it's too hard for them to interview her) who joined as an adult to explain how it started and how they got sucked in and pulled their family in.  The guy from a couple weeks ago was mostly focused on the $$ aspect.  I'd like someone to walk us through his/her motivation.

[MaryMitch]

I knew nothing about Scientology when this series began. This episode was so horrifying! I live in an area of the country where there are more churches than gas stations (just a slight exaggeration!) so I'm pretty certain they wouldn't want to waste their time here. This is the only time I've been happy about the evangelical stranglehold on the area.

[italianguy626]

1 hour ago, princelina said:

I know but that's pretty much all she did, while they hugged and loved her.  I would like someone (doesn't have to be her if it's too hard for them to interview her) who joined as an adult to explain how it started and how they got sucked in and pulled their family in.  The guy from a couple weeks ago was mostly focused on the $$ aspect.  I'd like someone to walk us through his/her motivation.

Ron Miscaivige covers this in his book (if you don’t already know, he is Dave’s father). However, he doesn’t blame the tech, his main beef is with Dave and LRH’s policies that led to Dave’s reign.

[Twopper]

2 hours ago, princelina said:

I know but that's pretty much all she did, while they hugged and loved her.  I would like someone (doesn't have to be her if it's too hard for them to interview her) who joined as an adult to explain how it started and how they got sucked in and pulled their family in.  The guy from a couple weeks ago was mostly focused on the $$ aspect.  I'd like someone to walk us through his/her motivation.

When Leah's mom was on the show she talked about how she wanted to be someone who helped people (I think she wanted to be, or maybe was, a nurse) and she felt that by being a scientologist she would have that opportunity.  Or that Scientology  would help people so she should help it.  Back in the earlier days and in  larger cities, they would offer free testing.  I think this was especially effective in the 60's and 70's when so many people were looking for self-help stuff.  I think it was Marty Rathburn who went into it to learn how to help his brother.  And I think they trained the people who administered the tests to pick up on people's weak points and interest to draw them in further.  How they draw people in today, I am not so sure as I don't think self help stuff is as popular as it once was and there is so much info about Co$ available.   I guess maybe they are going for groups now like the NOI, and I have heard that they have sent people into churches to infiltrate small group studies.  I have no idea how well that has worked.    And then once you are in, there are promises at the upper OT level of having special powers like reading minds.   They get you where you are vulnerable.  I felt bad for the wive a few weeks back when someone asked them if they were really into it when they joined and he said "yes" and her non-verbal message was "I wanted it if he wanted it."  I am glad they are out now, and it didn't destroy the marriage.  And I don't recall their mentioning being disconnected from people they cared about. 

[princelina]

Yes that's true - it does seem like most of these people were drawn in in the 60s-70s when they were looking for alternative (to church) measures of "finding themselves".

ETA:  I have noticed before but in this episode especially that there's something very juvenile, which I can kind of see would be satisfying, about the whole "org".  From the military imitations to the "missions" and "operations" and projects" - it seems like LRH was living out some boyhood fantasies, and despite his unattractive appearance he must have had a powerful personal charisma.

Edited January 25, 2019 by princelina