S01.E02: So Much For the Afterglow

[tessaray]

Air date: January 22, 2019

Quote

The anniversary of Rosa's death heightens tension in town; Max confronts Michael and Isobel, who fear Max's feelings for Liz will expose their secret; Liz and Kyle come to a shocking realization.

[Scarlett45]

It’s Freya from The Originals! Sweet she is getting work, and has a familiar face (although she and Nathan Parsons were only on the show 1 season at the same time). Ummm but aren’t they partners? (As in law enforcement partners) isn’t it a bad idea to get sexually involved with your partner when you’re a cop?

[Primal Slayer]

Wow Isobel/Michael are just douchebags, way to make the girl who just found out about aliens a fan. I thought it was a dream at first. Though not like they are really adding that much depth to Liz learning about aliens, she acts like she's known her entire life. 

Max/Liz just seem to rushed, where's the build up to anything?

I honestly already forgot that Maria existed in this show, really hope we get more of her. 

Fake autopsy! Wasnt expecting that! lol. Though this seems to be moving fairly quickly.

Did Liz's dad really need to do an entire speech about Max? Sure it was probably done to help dwell Liz's anger towards him but it was a bit much. They should've had Liz at least say something against Max to prompt the dads response. 

I do like Max and his partner. They have a good dynamic with one another. 

Alex looks scared during his/Michaels sexy scene. 

I feel like this episode could've easily served as a like episode 10/11 of a 13 episode season.

[shantown]

This episode did a much better job of separating itself from the original show. Let’s hope now that they got the exposition and the set-up out of the way that this show can find its own footing. I enjoyed in this episode the different character interactions. Isabel and Michael was a fun duo. Maria and Alex’s friendship was introduced, and I hope to see that grow. I would like to see Kyle make a connection outside of just Liz but I’m sure that’ll come soon enough. I really liked Max’s partner and hope we see more of her. 

 

The two two biggest things that stood out to me were 1) how much new Liz sounded like old Liz at times, and 2) the music on this show is so good! I was loving those live band covers of Third Eye Blind songs. 

[Indigo Luna]

...as a massive Third Eye Blind fan I fangirled really, really hard the first time Liz brought up the fraudulent zodiac lyric and it got worse when I heard the How's It Going To Be cover in the background in the next scene. But the end with God of Wine? Ok show. You got me. I'm yours. 

The show is still a little all over the place but I'm gonna stick around and watch. 

[phoenics]

Well that was a great episode.  Damn!  I already love this show with an unhealthy obsessive love.

Max seems to have some kind of alien PTSD.

Michael and Isabel were jerks for going after Liz like that - I too thought she was having a nightmare.  But then they come through for Max like that and awwww.

Maria is a treasure - but please give her her own storyline - don't make her the resident cheerleader.  That's a trope that should be avoided just as much as the "bury your gays" trope.

Looks like I was right about why the town hates on Liz an her family.

I really like this show - I don't believe Max murdered her - but I do believe he feels tremendous guilt about what happened to Rosa.

[Guest]

Michael is the one guy in the world that can't pull off a cowboy hat.

[phoenics]

Max in the cowboy stance with that cowboy hat (which should be its own character) is damn.  Whew.

Also - what I LOOOVE about this version of Roswell is that they are making Liz's reaction more realistic.  Her quick "oh you're an alien... cool" reaction in the first episode felt just ... too easy for me.  Even Liz's reaction in OGRoswell still felt off to me - she didn't waver even after Valenti showed her the handprint - I guess the only thing that helped her get there was the date being before Max and the others came out of their pods... but still.

But here - the show making it Rosa who has the handprints on her - THAT is a game changer and I think the show is going to milk that and mix it with Liz's fear and apprehension and use it to drive her looking into Rosa's death - which would then be a danger to the aliens and expose them for whatever happened back then (even though I still don't think they killed Rosa)... I really like this and I like that Liz doing this will bring us the tension we missed in the pilot.

Brilliant, imo.  Just brilliant.

My little Dreamer heart is a bit busted up, but I'm sure we'll get them back soon.

Oh - and Liz had a fiance back in Colorado... interesting.

And I like Max's hair a bit longer in the back.

Edited January 23, 2019 by phoenics

[Kareny]

Still really loving this strange Roswell fanfic we're getting twenty years after the fact, especially the Michael/Alex shipping. I mean, who ever thought of that? Did they even have a shipper name back in the heyday? I feel like there were shipper names for everything back then - the fantasy threesomes had pages of shipper names, for god's sakes - but I can't remember Michael and Alex ever having a shipper name. Well, apparently they had a fandom, and it's the writing team for this new series. I'll take it, only because the actors have such great chemistry and I'm dying to know more about their backstory. RIP to my Candy heart (though, is there a shipper name for Michael/Alex/Maria as a threesome? Serious question.)

There's also still enough of the original flavor Roswell to find here, between Michael and Isabel teaming up to keep Max in check, the Maria-Alex-Liz trio teaming up again, and lots of hot alien sex, which is apparently a lot safer now than it was back when it was on the WB. 

The added menace of Rosa's backstory and the more realistic threats to Liz's father are nice touches for upping the stakes. Overall, I said this elsewhere, but it's true - putting all fond memories aside, so far, objectively, this show is off to a much better start than WB Roswell. They seem to actually know where they're going, so hopefully we won't end up with exploding skin aliens again this time around and can actually get some consistent character development. 

Anyway. I'm stockpiling my nail polish remover bottles now - CW, don't you even think about canceling this. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Kareny

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Kareny said:

. RIP to my Candy heart (though, is there a shipper name for Michael/Alex/Maria as a threesome? Serious question.)

Band Candy according to the Roswell oracle. 

[Kareny]

Just now, ParadoxLost said:

Band Candy according to the Roswell oracle. 

Of course that's a thing. 

[Whodunnit]

I propose a game: 

Every time they mention politics we drink a shot.

That being said I enjoyed this episode more than the first one.

Michael  and Izzy are scary. Love that Michael is a chocoholic.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Whodunnit
Because auto correct missed something.

[phoenics]

OMG - I know this isn't based on the tv show - but do you guys think that Rosa humming the song "Fraudulent Zodiac" and writing the lyrics was indicative of her being under some kind of mind control?  

In the flashback with Max where she pushed him, she almost seemed to have alien power in the push.  Something really weird is going on here.

This is giving me strong "Alex and Thai Food and weird 001010101010 receipts and tapping" vibes, even though I know this show isn't based on the OGRoswell show... but I still think they borrowed some of it in terms of how folks might behave under alien mind control/warping/wiping.

[jewel21]

I'm really loving this show and I was on the fence about it until just two days ago when I finally ended up watching the pilot. I think this is quickly becoming my new obsession. 

Also, The Counting Crows and now Third Eye Blind?! Oh my heart!

Michael and Alex are hot, hot, hot! I wasn't sure about the pairing since I was a huge Michael/Maria shipper but oh my....

Max and Liz have some really nice chemistry. I didn't really ship the OG couple but I'm digging these two actors together. 

Is it next week, already? I need my fix. 

[phoenics]

What the heck am I gonna do for a whole week waiting for next week?  Ugh.  This is like a crack addiction.

[shapeshifter]

59 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Wow Isobel/Michael are just douchebags, way to make the girl who just found out about aliens a fan. I thought it was a dream at first.

54 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Michael and Isabel were jerks for going after Liz like that - I too thought she was having a nightmare

That makes at least three of us that thought it was a dream/nightmare. Does that mean the acting wasn't believable? Or the writing? Or both? Those scenes made me think: Oh, crap. This is going south as bad as Riverdale. But it got better.

 

54 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Maria is a treasure - but please give her her own storyline

Yes, please. But Arturo is my favorite, with Kyle and Michael close runners up.

 

23 minutes ago, Whodunnit said:

Michael is a chocoholic

Ah, yes. One of my people.

 

13 minutes ago, phoenics said:

What the heck am I gonna do for a whole week waiting for next week?  Ugh.  This is like a crack addiction.

You know what to do: Rewatch
;>)

 

ETA: Best part was the episode title.

Edited January 23, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

That makes at least three of us that thought it was a dream/nightmare. Does that mean the acting wasn't believable? Or the writing? Or both? Those scenes made me think: Oh, crap. This is going south as bad as Riverdale. But it got better.

I dont think it necessarily had to do with the acting (well slightly) but it felt so surreal to have those two confront Liz in such a threatening manner, all because Max told her about them. She hadnt shown any sign of betraying that trust or being a threat. 

[methodwriter85]

I'm going to call this now- Max tried to save Rosa but it was too late and that's why she has the print on her. It would explain so much about why Max feels guilt.

Michael/Alex is hot. Damn. This feels like a Nifty Archive fic I would have totally been into.

Also, gee, I wonder if Liz's near-fiance will be showing up at some point...

[shapeshifter]

8 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I dont think it necessarily had to do with the acting (well slightly) but it felt so surreal to have those two confront Liz in such a threatening manner, all because Max told her about them. She hadnt shown any sign of betraying that trust or being a threat. 

Plus, Michael and Isobel are adults. Shouldn't they know that scaring her is counterproductive to getting her to keep the secret? Or are they trying to push her into betraying them so they'll be justified in mindwiping her? 
Probably not, but it's just so frickin' illogical. Aren't they supposed to be geniuses?

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Also - what I LOOOVE about this version of Roswell is that they are making Liz's reaction more realistic.  Her quick "oh you're an alien... cool" reaction in the first episode felt just ... too easy for me.  Even Liz's reaction in OGRoswell still felt off to me - she didn't waver even after Valenti showed her the handprint - I guess the only thing that helped her get there was the date being before Max and the others came out of their pods... but still.

But here - the show making it Rosa who has the handprints on her - THAT is a game changer and I think the show is going to milk that and mix it with Liz's fear and apprehension and use it to drive her looking into Rosa's death - which would then be a danger to the aliens and expose them for whatever happened back then (even though I still don't think they killed Rosa)... I really like this and I like that Liz doing this will bring us the tension we missed in the pilot.

Brilliant, imo.  Just brilliant.

I wouldn't go as far as brilliant.  I'm still having to squint and look at it sideways to make it hang together.

Michael and Isabel were extremely effective with the psychopathic intimidation tactics against Liz in the diner (so much that I thought it might be Liz's nightmare).  Liz was doing the not at all intimidated thing.  It felt like all of them got extreme opposite direction on the acting and character motivation.  It didn't seem like there was a shared history that the audience is unaware of that could explain both sides of that confrontation.  It would have gone a long way if Micheal/Isabel hesitated a little or Liz let out a relieved breathe when they were all gone to show she was putting on a brave face.  

Isabel and Liz being concerned that Max was acting completely out of character for stopping Michael and Isabel's intimidation tactics also felt like it came out of nowhere.  So I was kind of floored when Max admitted to it later on.  But maybe that is just OGRoswell getting in the way and making me think it shouldn't surprise anyone that Max might choose protecting Liz over not pounding on Michael who is practicing knife throwing and menacingly towering over women.

Max's biggest problem is that he lied.  If he hadn't, Liz likely would have just asked him what happened.  

As things stand, if he hadn't lied, then the logical conclusion Liz would have reached is that Max tried to stop Rosa from getting into the car and then tried to save her and failed.

With the lie, Liz isn't going to trust any answers and scenarios where Max killed Rosa to protect the secret or Michael/Isobel (supported by their diner antics) killed Rosa and Max is protecting them are going to start getting investigated.

I think the fundamental issue I'm having right now is that there is a lot of shared history on this show that should be informing how they interact and enough of it is obscured by time and the mystery of Rosa's death that I'm not seeing how that history is informing the episode.

I need more time for the various combinations of relationships to gel.

I was so happy to have a Liz, Maria, and Alex scene.

Also Isabel's husband kind of amuses me.   He'll get Max drunk and talk about belt buckles as a metaphor for emotion. 

[Primal Slayer]

I'm still not sure why they didnt have Maria be Liz's friend instead of Rosas. Liz needs that person she can confide in and can be her partner in crime.

[phoenics]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I'm still not sure why they didnt have Maria be Liz's friend instead of Rosas. Liz needs that person she can confide in and can be her partner in crime.

I'm hoping they'll get there... but in the pilot, Maria says that she's Liz's BFF... so maybe she was BFFs with both Rosa and Maria?  I dunno.

[methodwriter85]

On the other hand, I kind of love Liz teaming up with Kyle. I totally buy them as a former high school couple where he was more into her than she was into him.

[phoenics]

19 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I wouldn't go as far as brilliant.  I'm still having to squint and look at it sideways to make it hang together.

Michael and Isabel were extremely effective with the psychopathic intimidation tactics against Liz in the diner (so much that I thought it might be Liz's nightmare).  Liz was doing the not at all intimidated thing.  It felt like all of them got extreme opposite direction on the acting and character motivation.  It didn't seem like there was a shared history that the audience is unaware of that could explain both sides of that confrontation.  It would have gone a long way if Micheal/Isabel hesitated a little or Liz let out a relieved breathe when they were all gone to show she was putting on a brave face.  

Isabel and Liz being concerned that Max was acting completely out of character for stopping Michael and Isabel's intimidation tactics also felt like it came out of nowhere.  So I was kind of floored when Max admitted to it later on.  But maybe that is just OGRoswell getting in the way and making me think it shouldn't surprise anyone that Max might choose protecting Liz over not pounding on Michael who is practicing knife throwing and menacingly towering over women.

Max's biggest problem is that he lied.  If he hadn't, Liz likely would have just asked him what happened.  

As things stand, if he hadn't lied, then the logical conclusion Liz would have reached is that Max tried to stop Rosa from getting into the car and then tried to save her and failed.

With the lie, Liz isn't going to trust any answers and scenarios where Max killed Rosa to protect the secret or Michael/Isobel (supported by their diner antics) killed Rosa and Max is protecting them are going to start getting investigated.

I think the fundamental issue I'm having right now is that there is a lot of shared history on this show that should be informing how they interact and enough of it is obscured by time and the mystery of Rosa's death that I'm not seeing how that history is informing the episode.

I need more time for the various combinations of relationships to gel.

I was so happy to have a Liz, Maria, and Alex scene.

Also Isabel's husband kind of amuses me.   He'll get Max drunk and talk about belt buckles as a metaphor for emotion. 

I agree with you that the shared history of them in high school is missing from some interactions - it feels like they're partially trading on that in some ways and then not in others.  I feel like the show is pushing some kind of mythology angle with Max's Alien PTSD (don't know what else to call it) that it overrode what should have been Liz/Max having a very normal "WTF" reaction to Michael/Isabel intimidating/terrorizing Liz.

So in that I agree.

But I still think Liz's reaction makes sense.  And Max just not coming clean about this due to his guilt is just SOOOOOO Max Evans (a combination of controlling + guilty because he has a pure heart) that I totally understand why he didn't want to tell Liz.  I think he was so surprised that she didn't hate him on sight after he told her he was an alien that it clouded his judgment - he was afraid to tell her everything because 1) He feels guilt over what happened to Rosa (due to the alien chaos - even if he didn't personally do anything to her) and 2) feels like he let Rosa down because he couldn't save her (he mentions something similar in his conversation with Cameron).

Also - am I the only person who noticed that when Rosa pushed Max, she seemed to have alien power?  Or was that just a flashback special effect?  Never mind - it appears to have been a flashback special effect.  Darn.

Edited January 23, 2019 by phoenics

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I'm still not sure why they didnt have Maria be Liz's friend instead of Rosas. Liz needs that person she can confide in and can be her partner in crime.

I'm assuming its a few things.

Having Maria be Rosa's BFF makes her a source for the investigation without having to hire as many guest stars.

After hearing the bit about Liz leaving behind a fiancee, it sounds like they want to leave a bit of mystery there to use later.  If Maria is Liz's BFF that is either harder to do or they have to deal with Maria being kind of pissed that Liz cut her out of her life for a decade.

I'm assuming Maria being Rosa's BFF will end up pulling her into the alien investigation with Liz and Kyle.

[phoenics]

So Kyle mentions Doctor-Patient Confidentiality.  Will that keep Kyle from telling Project Shepherd Manes Dude (what's his title - Captain?) about Max now that Liz outed him?

Also - Cameron feels a little bit like Tess (a non-alien Tess) and Noah feels like Jesse (he's a lawyer like him and everything).  Just sayin.  

Oh - Max Evans in a cowboy stance with his hat on is an image I didn't know I needed.  LAWD.

"Are you sassing Jesus?"  LMAO.

Edited January 23, 2019 by phoenics

[Sakura12]

Did Liz tell Kyle that Max is an alien? 

Max was dumb to lie and to share memories he can't see. He should've realized why she was asking that question. I suppose they'll just go with he's messed up from healing her. 

Also pouring nail polish remover in things is going to look way more suspicious than tobacco. 

I am glad they showed that they are friends with Alex. What did Michael and Isobel hope to accomplish by confronting Liz? They just looked like assholes.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Did Liz tell Kyle that Max is an alien? 

At the end of the episode, Liz did a little speech about finding out who killed Rosa "even if it was Max Evans".

Kyle was behind her.  Its was a very clunky TV show way to handle such a significant development.  We will hope they revisit it next episode.

Did they ever explain how Kyle got the real autopsy when someone went to the trouble of doing a fake one?

Edited January 23, 2019 by ParadoxLost

[phoenics]

Just now, ParadoxLost said:

 

Did they ever explain how Kyle got the real autopsy when someone went to the trouble of doing a fake one?

Nope - but I worry he went back to Project Shepherd.  Oh wait - maybe he got it from his mom?  But ... yikes.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, phoenics said:

Nope - but I worry he went back to Project Shepherd.  Oh wait - maybe he got it from his mom?  But ... yikes.

Manes was my guess.  And I find who covered up Rosa's death more interesting than who killed her.

I'm thinking Max tried to save her.  Maybe it was just an accident.  But someone either covered up the autopsy to protect Max/Isabel/Michael specifically or to cover up that aliens exist while not knowing who they were.

[I-Kare]

I don't know about the actor choice for Michael. He gives off a creepy vibe for me. Maybe he'll grow on me as he feels out his role though. 

[phoenics]

7 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Manes was my guess.  And I find who covered up Rosa's death more interesting than who killed her.

I'm thinking Max tried to save her.  Maybe it was just an accident.  But someone either covered up the autopsy to protect Max/Isabel/Michael specifically or to cover up that aliens exist while not knowing who they were.

I DVR'd the episode (because of course I did) and just looked at the folder Kyle gives her ... I can't make out the whole thing on the cover of the folder, but it definitely says "Classified".  He had to have gotten it from Project Shepherd.

The question is whether or not he will tell Manes about Max.  Is that doctor-patient confidentiality?

More worrying is Liz now being afraid of Max.  My poor Dreamer heart.

I also am not sure about it just being an accident where Max tried to save her.  Remember, Isabel did something to Rosa - Michael said so in the pilot.  Also, I still believe that Rosa "hearing voices" and the whole humming thing are somehow related to the alien chaos.

4 minutes ago, I-Kare said:

I don't know about the actor choice for Michael. He gives off a creepy vibe for me. Maybe he'll grow on me as he feels out his role though. 

Well I think he was supposed to be menacing in the scene with Liz.  

I love this Michael - he's the perfect combination of lethal volatility with a soft center.

Edited January 23, 2019 by phoenics

[mehtotheworld]

Can anyone clarify the pronunciation of Liz’s last name? I would assume it would be spelled Orteco, not Ortecho, based on the way it’s been pronounced.

I don’t know why, but the picture of Rosa with the handprint on her face was really unsettling to me. The developments in her death have been really interesting, when I thought it would be the most boring part of the show.

I have to admit I laughed at Max’s sadbang face at the end there. 

[kj4ever]

Okay, so I'll give it one more to see if I can hate watch or maybe even like this show.  I don't find any of the characters actually likable except for maybe Maria, but so far she seems to be regulated to being behind the bar dishing out random advice.

I will totally have to view this as a completely new show with completely new characters.  They've done a good job of destroying everything that was loved about the OG, and if you look at it like these are not based on the same people in the books or the OG it does have potential for a scifi type show.  

If the actors can get their legs under them in the next couple of episodes that would help.  Liz seems like she's being played by someone from community theater.  There were some good scenes, but so many more that were just wooden.  I think someone in the Pilot thread said she's from some reality show so many she just needs some acting classes.

I don't buy the whole she was afraid of Max.  I really, really hate when shows make something that in real life would be completely resolved by a conversation and make it into a big deal that causes conflict and problems for the whole season.  I don't buy that Liz would be afraid of Max at this point.  If he wouldn't have saved her life, shown her exactly how he has felt about her for over a decade, and then turned around and saved her Father's life maybe.  Then she goes and outs him to Kyle.  In the original I know Liz told Maria and Alex, but it was because her back was against the wall both times.  This Liz is an ass.

Speaking of asses, I think it was pretty clear that Max's partner has a thing for him, and it would be more than just "blowing off some steam".  He is an ass for taking advantage of the situation just to make himself feel better.  What, all because Liz didn't want to kiss him?  Boo freakin' hoo.  What a complete jerk.

[Sakura12]

7 hours ago, phoenics said:

Also - Cameron feels a little bit like Tess (a non-alien Tess) and Noah feels like Jesse (he's a lawyer like him and everything).  Just sayin.  

Since the original is still on my mind, I immediately thought Jenna's an alien too. Especially since they made Isobel's husband a lawyer like Jessie. Lol

Max doesn't think when he's around Liz, so while his sister and Michael are kind of assholes, they are kind of right as well. I also hope his handprint doesn't show up on that racist guy. 

I also want to know how they figured out to drink acetone. 

[Whimsy]

10 hours ago, shantown said:

The two two biggest things that stood out to me were 1) how much new Liz sounded like old Liz at times, and 2) the music on this show is so good! I was loving those live band covers of Third Eye Blind songs. 

 

10 hours ago, Indigo Luna said:

...as a massive Third Eye Blind fan I fangirled really, really hard the first time Liz brought up the fraudulent zodiac lyric and it got worse when I heard the How's It Going To Be cover in the background in the next scene. But the end with God of Wine? Ok show. You got me. I'm yours. 

 

10 hours ago, jewel21 said:

Also, The Counting Crows and now Third Eye Blind?! Oh my heart!

I'm also pretty sure I heard The Fly's Got You Where I Want You.  I got so excited.  I have done a partial rewatch of the OG show (up to Tess, Lies, & Videotape) and I am still sad about the changes to the music. 

9 hours ago, I-Kare said:

I don't know about the actor choice for Michael. He gives off a creepy vibe for me. Maybe he'll grow on me as he feels out his role though. 

I REALLY don't like the actor in this role. 

1 hour ago, kj4ever said:

Okay, so I'll give it one more to see if I can hate watch or maybe even like this show.  I don't find any of the characters actually likable except for maybe Maria, but so far she seems to be regulated to being behind the bar dishing out random advice.

I will totally have to view this as a completely new show with completely new characters.  They've done a good job of destroying everything that was loved about the OG, and if you look at it like these are not based on the same people in the books or the OG it does have potential for a scifi type show.  

If the actors can get their legs under them in the next couple of episodes that would help.  Liz seems like she's being played by someone from community theater.  There were some good scenes, but so many more that were just wooden.  I think someone in the Pilot thread said she's from some reality show so many she just needs some acting classes.

I don't buy the whole she was afraid of Max.  I really, really hate when shows make something that in real life would be completely resolved by a conversation and make it into a big deal that causes conflict and problems for the whole season.  I don't buy that Liz would be afraid of Max at this point.  If he wouldn't have saved her life, shown her exactly how he has felt about her for over a decade, and then turned around and saved her Father's life maybe.  Then she goes and outs him to Kyle.  In the original I know Liz told Maria and Alex, but it was because her back was against the wall both times.  This Liz is an ass.

Speaking of asses, I think it was pretty clear that Max's partner has a thing for him, and it would be more than just "blowing off some steam".  He is an ass for taking advantage of the situation just to make himself feel better.  What, all because Liz didn't want to kiss him?  Boo freakin' hoo.  What a complete jerk.

I think I would enjoy this show more if it weren't for the comparisons.  All I do is spend the whole episode comparing the storyline, acting choices, characters and it's annoying to myself.  If the names weren't the same it would be easier to separate it.  I probably would enjoy the show more if I could separate it.  I am going to keep trying, lol

[kirkola]

Okay, I liked it better than the pilot.  The Michael/Alex thing is better now that they are actually having conversations instead of just following the typical American straight guys pretending to be gay for a scene without having any visual clues or chemistry thing that annoys me.  It's kind of an argue, argue, kiss, cut thing that doesn't make a bit of sense.  But in this episode, I actually saw that these two men might actually like each other.

Liz makes no sense.  What she knows about Max at this point is that he's alien, he loves her, that loves extends to her family, and that he can save people.  The glowy handprint she's only seen twice, once on her shoulder and once on Rosa's autopsy file.  The most logical conclusion is that Max was there and was trying to save Rosa.  And that for whatever reason, he doesn't want to tell Liz that he failed.  So, of course, she jumps to the conclusion that he must of killed her sister.  Even though there's no evidence of this unless Kyle has told her about Project Sheridan (or whatever it's called).  But even then, she only has Kyle's word.

I loved Maria, Liz and Alex together at the bar.  Actually I loved all the little character beats.  I even liked Max with his partner.  I know they aren't endgame, but they do have pretty good chemistry.

And I'll admit, I loved Max challenging the redneck to a shoot.  I immediately thought...well that's one way to collect the bullet fragments without a court order.  I'm thinking for all his moodiness, Max is probably a pretty decent cop.

15 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

 

I think I would enjoy this show more if it weren't for the comparisons.  All I do is spend the whole episode comparing the storyline, acting choices, characters and it's annoying to myself.  If the names weren't the same it would be easier to separate it.  I probably would enjoy the show more if I could separate it.  I am going to keep trying, lol

I spend a lot of time watching reboots by telling myself that this is either an alternate timeline or it's all Barry's fault because of Flashpoint. (smile)

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, kj4ever said:

Speaking of asses, I think it was pretty clear that Max's partner has a thing for him, and it would be more than just "blowing off some steam".  He is an ass for taking advantage of the situation just to make himself feel better.  What, all because Liz didn't want to kiss him?  Boo freakin' hoo.  What a complete jerk.

From the way they were looking at each other that was not the first time they hooked up. “Blowing off steam” was clearly code for “sex”- they likely have an arrangement that they figured out a while ago. (Sex with someone they trust but they aren’t in a relationship) I didn’t take him to be an ass. 

[kj4ever]

45 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

From the way they were looking at each other that was not the first time they hooked up. “Blowing off steam” was clearly code for “sex”- they likely have an arrangement that they figured out a while ago. (Sex with someone they trust but they aren’t in a relationship) I didn’t take him to be an ass. 

Yes I realize that.  I meant it would be more than a casual thing because it was obvious that she has a thing for him.

[Scarlett45]

7 hours ago, kj4ever said:

Yes I realize that.  I meant it would be more than a casual thing because it was obvious that she has a thing for him.

Oh I see. No I still don’t think he’s an ass. If two people with their mental facilities in tact agree to meet each other’s need for partnered sex, one person developing feelings doesn’t make the other person an ass. I’m sure if Cameron (is that her name?) said she wasn’t interested any more because she was developing feelings for Max, I think he would leave her alone (respectfully)- not pressure her, or lie to her to keep getting laid on the regular. Doing THAT would make him an ass. 

[I-Kare]

12 hours ago, phoenics said:

Well I think he was supposed to be menacing in the scene with Liz.  

Oh sure! The problem is, I found him creepy in the last episode as well. 

[shantown]

3 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I think I would enjoy this show more if it weren't for the comparisons.  All I do is spend the whole episode comparing the storyline, acting choices, characters and it's annoying to myself.  If the names weren't the same it would be easier to separate it.  I probably would enjoy the show more if I could separate it.  I am going to keep trying, lol

Yeah the names is the biggest thing throwing me off from getting fully into the new series. If they kept the same three aliens (Max, Michael, Isabel), or just kept Max/Liz to start, I think it would be easier. But when everyone has the same names I get confused remembering that they're NOT the same people as the 1999 show as  adults. If Alex's name was Adam or Maria was Sophia or something. But I spend so much time trying to remember whose name is what and their current job that I miss a good chunk of what's going on.

I like the show though! I swear!

[kj4ever]

12 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Manes was my guess.  And I find who covered up Rosa's death more interesting than who killed her.

I'm thinking Max tried to save her.  Maybe it was just an accident.  But someone either covered up the autopsy to protect Max/Isabel/Michael specifically or to cover up that aliens exist while not knowing who they were.

Hell Rosa is more interesting than almost all the characters that are alive...lol

[Regalbegal]

Overall, I think the creators have made a good choice to just keep the bare bones of the story and re-conceive the characters – for me, much of the OG show was carried by the chemistry between the four leads, and any new teen Max, Liz, Maria etc would suffer in comparison.  This episode emphasized even further the difference in tone between this and the original – there is sex, violence,  the aliens are acting threatening,  Liz and Max are in opposition to each other etc.   I enjoyed the pilot, but this was definitely an improvement.

5 hours ago, kj4ever said:

I don't buy the whole she was afraid of Max.  I really, really hate when shows make something that in real life would be completely resolved by a conversation and make it into a big deal that causes conflict and problems for the whole season.  I don't buy that Liz would be afraid of Max at this point.  If he wouldn't have saved her life, shown her exactly how he has felt about her for over a decade, and then turned around and saved her Father's life maybe.

I generally agree that this type of plotting is annoying and it was pretty abrupt here, although in this case at least there was some reasonable rationale for why both Max and Liz were holding things back.  I hope they don’t drag it out too long, though – I think the chemistry between these two is a strength of the show, so I’d prefer to see the characters working together vs. cross purposes. 

9 hours ago, mehtotheworld said:

I have to admit I laughed at Max’s sadbang face at the end there. 

Yes, me too! All that was missing was the “womp womp” sad  trombone.  It wiped out whatever heat or pathos they were possibly trying to bring in that scene.   Luckily, we had the scene with Michael and Alex to bring the sexy back, so to speak.  I am really curious about their backstory. 

So, is every episode going to be named after a late-‘90s song?  If so, I like it!

[kj4ever]

15 minutes ago, Regalbegal said:

Overall, I think the creators have made a good choice to just keep the bare bones of the story and re-conceive the characters – for me, much of the OG show was carried by the chemistry between the four leads, and any new teen Max, Liz, Maria etc would suffer in comparison.  This episode emphasized even further the difference in tone between this and the original – there is sex, violence,  the aliens are acting threatening,  Liz and Max are in opposition to each other etc.   I enjoyed the pilot, but this was definitely an improvement.

I generally agree that this type of plotting is annoying and it was pretty abrupt here, although in this case at least there was some reasonable rationale for why both Max and Liz were holding things back.  I hope they don’t drag it out too long, though – I think the chemistry between these two is a strength of the show, so I’d prefer to see the characters working together vs. cross purposes. 

Yes, me too! All that was missing was the “womp womp” sad  trombone.  It wiped out whatever heat or pathos they were possibly trying to bring in that scene.   Luckily, we had the scene with Michael and Alex to bring the sexy back, so to speak.  I am really curious about their backstory. 

So, is every episode going to be named after a late-‘90s song?  If so, I like it!

I am glad that it seems Alex wasn't closeted per his conversation with Maria.  Perhaps Michael is the one that hides it?

In other news, we have a mobile dog grooming service called The Regale Beagle that I used to use when my dog was alive, and I smile every time I see your screen name :)

[Whimsy]

I forgot to mention when Liz said something about getting a grant and needing to go to San Diego... that's now how it works!  Ugh.  That pulled me out of the episode. 

[gibasi]

8 hours ago, kj4ever said:

Okay, so I'll give it one more to see if I can hate watch or maybe even like this show.  I don't find any of the characters actually likable except for maybe Maria, but so far she seems to be regulated to being behind the bar dishing out random advice.

I will totally have to view this as a completely new show with completely new characters.  They've done a good job of destroying everything that was loved about the OG, and if you look at it like these are not based on the same people in the books or the OG it does have potential for a scifi type show.  

If the actors can get their legs under them in the next couple of episodes that would help.  Liz seems like she's being played by someone from community theater.  There were some good scenes, but so many more that were just wooden.  I think someone in the Pilot thread said she's from some reality show so many she just needs some acting classes.

I don't buy the whole she was afraid of Max.  I really, really hate when shows make something that in real life would be completely resolved by a conversation and make it into a big deal that causes conflict and problems for the whole season.  I don't buy that Liz would be afraid of Max at this point.  If he wouldn't have saved her life, shown her exactly how he has felt about her for over a decade, and then turned around and saved her Father's life maybe.  Then she goes and outs him to Kyle.  In the original I know Liz told Maria and Alex, but it was because her back was against the wall both times.  This Liz is an ass.

Speaking of asses, I think it was pretty clear that Max's partner has a thing for him, and it would be more than just "blowing off some steam".  He is an ass for taking advantage of the situation just to make himself feel better.  What, all because Liz didn't want to kiss him?  Boo freakin' hoo.  What a complete jerk.

 

6 hours ago, Whimsy said:

 

I think I would enjoy this show more if it weren't for the comparisons.  All I do is spend the whole episode comparing the storyline, acting choices, characters and it's annoying to myself.  If the names weren't the same it would be easier to separate it.  I probably would enjoy the show more if I could separate it.  I am going to keep trying, lol

It's not comparing it to the original that makes me hate it.  It is the actors portraying Max and Liz.  Especially Nathan Parsons.  And to find out he does have some acting experience?  I find him so wooden and blah.  He doesn't have any energy at all.  And Jeanine Mason as Liz?  It comes across as community theater to me.

[cynic]

Yeah, I'm still not feeling the actor playing Max either. I just find him dull in the regular scenes and laughable in the really emotional ones. 

Liz doesn't bother me, but I don't see any chemistry between her and Max. I'm guessing it's more his fault than hers though. 

I wasn't a fan of Michael's attitude in the original, but at least he was a teenager. That this guy is almost thirty makes things so much worse. I didn't like the intimidation tactics either and having Isabel included in that makes me dislike her too. It doesn't help that i just find her unpleasant to look at. Its like the camera always has a view up her nostrils or something.

I did like Max's partner, but i feel like her introduction and Kyle's enhanced role combined with Michael's romance with Alex, just leaves little room for Maria in this show, which sucks since she is one of the stronger actors. I fear Liz's fiance will show up and make things even worse.

I'll hang around for a few more episodes, because I am interested in the Rosa mystery and I do like the alien/immigrant parallels (though I'm hoping they tone down the heavy handedness soon), but i think this cast might be too much of a turn off for me long term. Plus, there's needs to be some sweetness and hope, not just an hour of angst to be enjoyable. The original had that with the Liz/Maria friendship and the trust and cuteness between Liz and Max (whether they were together or not), but neither of those things is really here so far. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by cynic

[tennisgurl]

I really thought that Michael and Izzie showing up to intimidate Liz was a dream sequence, that was pretty messed up, guys! Especially now that she thinks that aliens might have killed her sister. Not making a case that you arent evil aliens, guys. I get that they were trying to look out for Max, which is kinda sweet in a shovel talk kind of way, but put the damn knives away!

Michael is as angsty as he was in the OG show, but that made sense, being an angsty teenager. This guy is in his late 20s, calm down a bit! I do like the actor alright, and his scenes with Alex are pretty good, its when he seems like he is more acting like an actual character, and not an angsty teen who is too old to be a teen anymore. 

I do like the changes to the show, it separates it from the OG show, and as I dont remember the OG show very well, the differences work for me just fine. The slightly darker tone is working well,  and the characters being older does distinguish it from the OG show, and as long as it doesent get TOO heavy handed, I think the political stuff is working out, and its almost impossible to mention in a show set in New Mexico in modern times with a Mexican American lead. I also am interested in seeing what happened with Rosa, how Liz deals with Max from here on out, and how the aliens were involved. With the handprint, I would bet that Max tried to save her, and failed, and thats why he feels all guilty. Not sure who actually killed her though, or if it really was a car crash. Maybe it was the government guy. 

Speaking of, the army guy is super dramatic, its kind of hilarious, and Liz's other boyfriend has caught it as well. "She was murdered! By aliens!" Like, alright dude, maybe lead up to the alien thing a bit more? 

I really hope that the Third Eye Blind stuff continues to be a theme on this show, its cracking me up. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by tennisgurl

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, kj4ever said:

And I find who covered up Rosa's death more interesting than who killed her.

Probably Max. A possible trope that might get recycled here: Max covered it up because he thought Isobel and/or Michael killed her, but it was really someone else.

 

18 hours ago, phoenics said:

I love this Michael - he's the perfect combination of lethal volatility with a soft center.

At least 2 of us here think so.

 

59 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I really thought that Michael and Izzie showing up to intimidate Liz was a dream sequence, that was pretty messed up, guys! . . . Not making a case that you arent evil aliens, guys. I get that they were trying to look out for Max, which is kinda sweet in a shovel talk kind of way, but put the damn knives away!

Exactly! LOL