The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[rmontro]

On 7/27/2023 at 10:42 AM, supposebly said:

It all just shows me that I'm kind of over these types of movies and TV shows. I've never been a comic book fan, so I was quite surprised how much I enjoyed them. I only started watching because I've always been a fan of Robert Downey Jr.

I guess Superhero movie fatigue is real. At least for me!

I am a comic book fan, but I've lost interest as well.  The only way they can ignite that interest again is if they get the Fantastic Four right.  At one time I was very optimistic that Marvel Studios were the ones who would do that.  Now, I'll have to see it to believe it.

[Anduin]

22 hours ago, tv echo said:

Day 1 - Marvel comics and video game news...

Everything Happening at NYCC 2023
BY MARVEL  October 13, 2023
https://www.marvel.com/articles/live-events/all-the-marvel-news-from-new-york-comic-con-2023-recap-announcements-trailers 

Thank you! I should have checked back this morning rather than at the end of the day, but better late than never. :)

However. "This “enlightened,” technologically advanced society appears peaceful on first contact…but they are not all they appear to be." Gosh. I'm shocked that a seemingly utopian society goes a bit Omelas behind the scenes. So terribly shocked, I tell you. Not like there's a trope about that with a couple of dozen entries.

Nothing you can do about it, though. Not like you're in charge of these things, or are you?

[Brn2bwild]

For me, as someone who was never into the comics and who really became interested in the movies after watching WandaVision, I think what would keep me interested is if they brought the characters we know and root for together in one new Avengers team.  Wanda, Carol, Monica, Yelena, Loki, Sam, Dr. Strange, etc.  Maybe they're planning to do that, and I realize it would take some time to form, but right now we don't even a hint that this is what will happen beyond vague titles (ex: Avengers: The Kang Dynasty).  Everyone just seems off on their own island and there is no sense of anticipation or building of momentum.

And personally, even without the abuse charges hanging over his head, I don't find Jonathan Majors appealing.  Everything I've seen him in, he's come across as a creep.  So I don't see him saving the MCU.  I wish they had the option to cast Michael B. Jordan in his role.  

[Kel Varnsen]

On 10/11/2023 at 11:13 AM, tv echo said:

Also discussed Marvel TV changes in general...

‘Daredevil’ Hits Reset Button as Marvel Overhauls Its TV Business
BY BORYS KIT   OCTOBER 11, 2023
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/daredevil-marvel-disney-1235614518/ 

Hopefully they can fix things because there is definitely some good stuff in most of the shows. But there is also definitely a decline. You would think going from Ms. Marvel which had an unnecessary villain fight at the end, to She-Hulk which broke the 4th wall to call out unnecessary finale villain fights and then to Secret Invasion which had the most unnecessary finale villain fight of them all would have clued someone in. Especially with Ms. Marvel I went from being someone who was completely uninterested before it came out to wishing it didn't have a villain at all and was just about Kamala, figuring out her powers and her family history and dealing with family and friends. 

[tv echo]

NYCC 2023: The Rise and Fall of the X-Men's Krakoa Age Revealed
BY MARVEL   October 10, 2023
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/nycc-2023-rise-and-fall-of-x-men-krakoa-age-january-titles 

NYCC 2023: New to Marvel’s Infinity Comics, ‘Avengers United’ Is an Ongoing Series Starring Earth’s Mightiest Heroes
BY ROBYN BELT    October 12, 2023
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/nycc-2023-first-look-preview-infinity-comics-new-ongoing-series-avengers-united 

NYCC 2023: 'Blood Hunt,' Marvel Comics' Next Crossover Event, Revealed
BY MARVEL   October 13, 2023
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/nycc-2023-blood-hunt-marvel-comics-next-crossover 

NYCC 2023: Marvel Reveals a First Look at the Momentous 'Sabretooth War'
BY MARVEL   October 13, 2023
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/nycc-2023-sabretooth-war-first-look 

NYCC 2023: 'The Amazing Spider-Man: Gang War' Trailer Premieres and New 'Gang War' Covers Revealed
BY MARVEL   October 13, 2023
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/nycc-2023-amazing-spider-man-gang-war-trailer-january-february-titles 

NYCC 2023: New 'Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver' Comic Series Announced
BY MARVEL   October 14, 2023
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/nycc-2023-new-scarlet-witch-quicksilver-comic-series 

NYCC 2023: Marvel Comics Reveals a New Ultimate Universe
BY MARVEL   October 14, 2023
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/nycc-2023-marvels-new-ultimate-universe-line-first-look-trailer-covers 

NYCC 2023: New 'G.O.D.S.' Trailer Debuts with More Glimpses at Jonathan Hickman and Valerio Schiti's Mythology-Shattering Series
BY MARVEL   October 14, 2023
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/nycc-2023-watch-all-new-gods-trailer-preview-jonathan-hickman-valerio-schiti-mythology-shattering-series 

NYCC 2023: Get Ready for the Fiercest Clawsover of the Century in 'Infinity Paws'
BY MARVEL   October 14, 2023
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/nycc-2023-infinity-paws-marvel-unlimited-spring-2024-trailer-first-look 
 

[tv echo]

From yesterday (Oct. 14)...

Chris Evans NYCC 2023 Panel
Gragon Productions   Oct 14, 2023

"Guardians of the Galaxy" NYCC 2023 Panel
Gragon Productions   Oct 14, 2023

Also...

MCU: THE REIGN OF MARVEL STUDIOS | Joanna Robinson, Dave Gonzales & Gavin Edwards Interview
POC Culture   Oct 9, 2023

Edited October 15, 2023 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The Evolution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe With Joanna Robinson 
The Watch     Oct 12, 2023
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-watch/id1111739567?i=1000631137925 

Captain America's Perfect MCU Introduction Was Almost Ruined By Marvel
BY MOLLY FREEMAN    OCT 15, 2023
https://screenrant.com/marvel-almost-ruin-captain-america-mcu-introduction/ 

Quote

The newly released book MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios by Dave Gonzales and Joanna Robinson dives into Marvel Studios chief Kevin Feige's early relationship with the Marvel Creative Committee, which was a group of executives who endeavored to help guide the early days of the MCU. However, the Creative Committee, which included such Marvel executives as Alan Fine and Ike Perlmutter, was vehemently against setting Captain America: The First Avenger during the 1940s. An excerpt from the book reads:

One early confrontation came over Captain America: The First Avenger. [Alan] Fine believed that Marvel audiences wouldn't want to see a movie set largely in the 1940s. [Kevin] Feige and [Louis] D'Esposito insisted that they needed to establish Captain America before making The Avengers: the movie had to show audiences that Steve Rogers was a man out of time, not just pay lip service to the notion. The meetings became "screaming matches," but Feige prevailed.

Edited October 15, 2023 by tv echo

[tv echo]

NYCC 2023: Everything Announced at the 'Women of Marvel' Panel
BY MARVEL   October 15, 2023
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/nycc-2023-women-of-marvel-panel-round-up 

‘We’ve Barely Scratched the Surface’: Kevin Feige Reflects on Marvel Studios’ Impact Since ‘Iron Man’
By Jenelle Riley     Oct 13, 2023
https://variety.com/2023/film/features/kevin-feige-marvel-studios-impact-since-iron-man-1235750580/ 

Quote

“We’ve had a tradition at Marvel Studios that started with the very first ‘Iron Man.’ For every new release, the cast, producers, director, and I will drop in on an opening night showing and watch the movie with the fans. Feeling the excitement in the theater, hearing cheers or gasps from the audience, is always a reminder of what these movies and characters mean to fans,” he says. “Being there on opening night of ‘Avengers: Endgame,’ hearing the crowds, is something I’ll never forget. Also, the feedback we received after ‘Black Panther’ came out. Never in my wildest dreams did I think it would have the kind of impact it did.”
*  *  *
“The great thing about Marvel truly is how many wonderful, interesting characters we have in the comics — they’ve been at it for 85 years. Even after 32 movies, it feels like we’ve barely scratched the surface,” noted Feige.

Edited October 16, 2023 by tv echo

[Anduin]

44 minutes ago, tv echo said:

NYCC 2023: Everything Announced at the 'Women of Marvel' Panel
BY MARVEL   October 15, 2023
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/nycc-2023-women-of-marvel-panel-round-up 

‘We’ve Barely Scratched the Surface’: Kevin Feige Reflects on Marvel Studios’ Impact Since ‘Iron Man’
By Jenelle Riley     Oct 13, 2023
https://variety.com/2023/film/features/kevin-feige-marvel-studios-impact-since-iron-man-1235750580/ 

Interesting that the Women of Marvel cover has the Asian Psylocke on it. Now there's a character with an odd history. Elizabeth 'Betsy' Braddock was originally a white English woman. Through circumstances, her mind ended up in an Asian body. Later, the original owner of that body came back, though eventually died. Then she got turned back to white. Through more circumstances, the other Asian body came back to life. I'm not so up on the Krakoa era. One or both might be MIA or dead right now, but for a while both were running around.

She's appeared twice in live-action movies, once in X3 played by Mei Melançon and in Apocalypse, played by Olivia Munn. Both actresses are biracial, which strikes me as trying to have it both ways. On the one hand, a white person ending up with an Asian body isn't great. On the other, she's probably best known as the Asian version.

She would be an interesting character to see in a modern day TV series. Like, how does she deal with being in a new body while having to run around, do action, and fight the big bad? Good writers would have a field day with that premise. Will we ever get to see it? I'm doubtful.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 10/14/2023 at 5:16 PM, Brn2bwild said:

For me, as someone who was never into the comics and who really became interested in the movies after watching WandaVision, I think what would keep me interested is if they brought the characters we know and root for together in one new Avengers team.  Wanda, Carol, Monica, Yelena, Loki, Sam, Dr. Strange, etc.  Maybe they're planning to do that, and I realize it would take some time to form, but right now we don't even a hint that this is what will happen beyond vague titles (ex: Avengers: The Kang Dynasty).  Everyone just seems off on their own island and there is no sense of anticipation or building of momentum.

There's some legitimacy to the argument that it took ten years to build up to Endgame, a decade of movies to get all those moving parts together in one place at one time. Especially since teams like the Guardians and individual characters like Carol Danvers are usually off doing their own things and not really interacting with outsiders, as it were. It took time and patience to get to the point where  everyone we'd already been introduced to were fighting together against a common threat. Hell, I still get emotional when everybody is emerging from those portals to go battle Thanos and his army, but it took a while to get there. And it will take a while to build up to that level again.

That said, there does seem to be a lack of cohesion, and I'm sure the strikes haven't helped. They've screwed up some stuff I was really interested in and cared about, and this news about a 'soft reboot' is already annoying me. Like, just admit you fucked it up, Kevin, that you hired at least one writer who couldn't create an interesting grocery list, and maybe-possibly that you should have your creatives watch previous projects so they don't walk over the same ground all over again. At this point, I'm here for The Marvels and Thunderbolts and maybe Echo, and even with Thunderbolts it will be depending on how things proceed. Get it together, Kevin. Fanfic writers shouldn't have to correct your mistakes.

P.S. - Natasha is trending on Twitter. I had forgotten that in canon, today is that day.

[Kel Varnsen]

4 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

That said, there does seem to be a lack of cohesion, and I'm sure the strikes haven't helped

For me I don't care so much about the cohesion, if they want to make stand alone movies for awhile, that is cool.  I just think at least for the movie side the majority of them were ok to good, it is just some pretty bad ones dropped the quality average lower than what people were used to. Looking at the schedule since 2021 I feel like if they just hadn't bothered with Eternals (both because it was kind of boring and 4 movies in one year was too much even after a year of nothing), and then made Ant Man and Black Panther a lot better then people would be talking a lot differently. Yes for BP a big part of it was Chadwick Boseman's death but even if it were the same Namor plot with him in it, I am not sure it would have been that great (so maybe they should have recast T'challa I am not sure). And Quantumania was just a dumb story with bad effects that didn't use any of the main actors well and didn't really make sense. Fix those two and the overall average goes up and people I think would accept what they had a lot more, because No Way Home and GOTG3 were great. And the rest were somewhere between ok and pretty good.

[tv echo]

Next on Disney+: November 2023
October 17, 2023
https://press.disneyplus.com/news/next-on-disney-plus-november-2023 

Quote

Friday, November 3

- Spider-Man™: Far From Home

Edited October 18, 2023 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Deadpool 3’: Merc With A Mouth Moving Off May Release Date As Actors Strike Shakes Up 2024 Theatrical Schedule – The Dish
By Anthony D'Alessandro    October 19, 2023
https://deadline.com/2023/10/deadpool-3-release-date-change-actors-strike-1235577067/ 

Quote

EXCLUSIVE: In one of the first major blows to the 2024 theatrical release schedule due to the ongoing actors strike, sources tell us that Marvel Studios‘ Deadpool 3 won’t be making its May 3 start-of-summer theatrical release date. Even if the strike ends in the next few weeks, a 2024 restart on the half-finished Deadpool 3 would not get the Ryan Reynolds-Hugh Jackman threequel to a May opening date.
*   *  *
There is a long shot, per sources, that Captain America: Brave New World, which originally was set for May 3 and then was pushed to July 26, actually moves back because it’s in better shape than Deadpool 3, having finished production.
*  *  *
Disney hasn’t made the Deadpool 3 move official and did not return Deadline’s request for comment.

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by tv echo

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

Streaming Friday on Disney+...

LEGO Marvel Avengers: Code Red | Official Trailer | Disney+
Marvel Entertainment   Oct 23, 2023

[Brn2bwild]

MCU Timeline Book Reignites Debate Over Whether the Scarlet Witch Is Alive or Dead

I really hope the "death" was just to the evil version of her character, because I would hate to think that the Wanda we've known since Age of Ultron and grew to love in WandaVision is dead.  Having a Wanda from another dimension take her place would not be enough.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 10/26/2023 at 10:01 PM, Brn2bwild said:

MCU Timeline Book Reignites Debate Over Whether the Scarlet Witch Is Alive or Dead

I really hope the "death" was just to the evil version of her character, because I would hate to think that the Wanda we've known since Age of Ultron and grew to love in WandaVision is dead.  Having a Wanda from another dimension take her place would not be enough.

I wonder how much of that death is because Elizabeth Olsen doesn't really seem to be interested in playing Wanda anymore.

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I wonder how much of that death is because Elizabeth Olsen doesn't really seem to be interested in playing Wanda anymore.

After they fucked up her character, I honestly don’t blame her.

[Brn2bwild]

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

After they fucked up her character, I honestly don’t blame her.

I've seen in various articles that she would like to keep playing Wanda.  I'm sure she would if offered a good enough story.  It's weird that Elizabeth Olsen has received acclaim for her acting, but aside from that HBO miniseries, I haven't seen her in anything and don't know what she'll be doing in the future.  

[Kel Varnsen]

52 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

I've seen in various articles that she would like to keep playing Wanda.  I'm sure she would if offered a good enough story.  It's weird that Elizabeth Olsen has received acclaim for her acting, but aside from that HBO miniseries, I haven't seen her in anything and don't know what she'll be doing in the future.  

Are there those articles (and if so is it just her being diplomatic)? If you google "Elizabeth Olsen Scarlet Witch" the first link is an ew story about how she doesn't miss playing the character, the second is her wikipedia page and the third is a story about how she is tired of just being known as that character. Even if it was the greatest super hero character ever, she is 34 and the reality of Hollywood is that there is a limited number of years for her to make a name for herself as a leading role actress.

[Brn2bwild]

12 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Are there those articles (and if so is it just her being diplomatic)? If you google "Elizabeth Olsen Scarlet Witch" the first link is an ew story about how she doesn't miss playing the character, the second is her wikipedia page and the third is a story about how she is tired of just being known as that character. Even if it was the greatest super hero character ever, she is 34 and the reality of Hollywood is that there is a limited number of years for her to make a name for herself as a leading role actress.

I've seen and read articles across the map.  There were rumors (in articles and in other media) that Elizabeth Olsen had signed a seven-year contract to star in the MCU and the Scarlet Witch would have her own movie.  Elizabeth Olsen denied this, but if we are supposed to assume her character is dead at this point, she could have been doing a "Jon Snow" denial where she has to lie/pretend so she does not spoil any future plot lines.  I think the bottom line is that we don't know what will happen to her character.  Elizabeth Olsen might want to do other things, but that wouldn't preclude her from also starring in the MCU.     

[BetterButter]

Crisis at Marvel: Jonathan Majors Back-Up Plans, ‘The Marvels’ Reshoots, Reviving Original Avengers and More Issues Revealed

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 10/29/2023 at 9:02 AM, Brn2bwild said:

Elizabeth Olsen might want to do other things, but that wouldn't preclude her from also starring in the MCU.     

She has said she wants to pursue other roles, but as @Spartan Girl says I'm more than half-convinced it's because Wanda got screwed over so bad. All things considered, Olsen has a relatively limited body of work, since she only has 27 credits on IMDB, but unlike her sisters she didn't begin to act until she was in her twenties. If you're interested in seeing her in other things, I would suggest Martha Marcy May Marlene and Wind River, where she co-stars with Jeremy Renner. It always could be both, that she's a bit weary of the Marvel juggernaut and wants to explore other possibilities as an actress, because either she was very choosy with what she decided to take as a role, or.....something else. I don't know what that Something Else might be.

[baldryanr]

2 hours ago, BetterButter said:

Crisis at Marvel: Jonathan Majors Back-Up Plans, ‘The Marvels’ Reshoots, Reviving Original Avengers and More Issues Revealed

Yeah, Marvel definitely over extended themselves.  It's not like the earlier material was flawless either, but fans were more willing to just ignore the bad stuff.  That's no longer the case, especially as the mostly well liked originals have left. 

That story about Blade is absolutely bizarre though, and sounds like what trolls believe "woke" people are trying to do with every movie and show. 

[Kel Varnsen]

8 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

wants to explore other possibilities as an actress, because either she was very choosy with what she decided to take as a role, or.....something else. I don't know what that Something Else might be.

It is interesting. She seems talented but at the same time her MCU actress peers have been getting a lot more recognition for their outside marvel work than she has. Brie Larson has an Oscar, and Scarlett Johansson and Florence Pugh both have Oscar nominations. Even Zendaya has 2 Emmys. And Olsen is 34 so she probably realizes it won't be that much longer before she starts getting offered roles playing the mom to an actor in their 20's playing a teen.

6 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Yeah, Marvel definitely over extended themselves.  It's not like the earlier material was flawless either, but fans were more willing to just ignore the bad stuff.  

Yea the fact that there wasn't as much stuff meant there was time for anticipation to build. Like Iron Man and Hulk came out in 2008, then it was 2 years before the next MCU movie came out, Iron Man 2. I mean it wasn't a good movie. But it also made a ton of cash, and I have to think a lot of that was the crazy amount of build up there must have been after Iron Man.

[benteen]

12 hours ago, BetterButter said:

Crisis at Marvel: Jonathan Majors Back-Up Plans, ‘The Marvels’ Reshoots, Reviving Original Avengers and More Issues Revealed

Reviving the original Avengers is desperately pathetic if true.

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, benteen said:

Reviving the original Avengers is desperately pathetic if true.

Although it is kind of funny to think of how gigantic the truckload of money they would need to be in order to RDJ to come back as Iron Man (or to get Scarlett Johansson back).

[baldryanr]

11 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Although it is kind of funny to think of how gigantic the truckload of money they would need to be in order to RDJ to come back as Iron Man (or to get Scarlett Johansson back).

With all due respect to SJ, bringing her back wouldn't move the needle enough to justify the cost.  Part of it is because her successor is already in place, and part of it is because Nat was always a secondary member of the team.  Revive Tony, de-age Steve, grab Spidey and Thor - those are the (fantastic) four you'd need to drum up real interest alongside the cries of how pathetically desperate Marvel has become.

One other thing - it already sounds like they're lowering expectations for the Marvels.

[tv echo]

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, baldryanr said:

With all due respect to SJ, bringing her back wouldn't move the needle enough to justify the cost.

Counterargument - I don't want to ever see Steve Rogers again, and I don't care who plays him. He can stay in Fake Happy Land, since that was the choice Feige made to end his storyline, and good riddance. The franchise should learn from their bad decisions, not repeat them.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Counterargument - I don't want to ever see Steve Rogers again, and I don't care who plays him. He can stay in Fake Happy Land, since that was the choice Feige made to end his storyline, and good riddance. The franchise should learn from their bad decisions, not repeat them.

SERIOUSLY.

RDJ was the only character arc in Endgame that stick the landing. Undoing that would be beyond stupid.

As for ScarJo, maybe the MCU should spend more time doing better by the female characters they still have, instead of just giving the lion’s share to ScarJo as per fucking usual.

Did K.E.V.I.N. learn nothing from the reason why Secret Invasion sucked? They threw away their writers and just rush-jobbed character twists and deaths without making an effort.

[Enigma X]

RDJ was my favorite MCU actor and Iron Man was my favorite character. I like all the original Avengers (for the most part), but I don't need them to resurrect or reassemble. Will I be mad if it happens? It depends on how it is done. The thing is, I do not need it regardless and would prefer the MCU to tighten up what it has.

[Bruinsfan]

On 11/1/2023 at 3:25 PM, baldryanr said:

That story about Blade is absolutely bizarre though, and sounds like what trolls believe "woke" people are trying to do with every movie and show. 

I've heard that the particular writer of the Variety Article has something of a reputation for sensationalism.

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

Insiders Cast Doubt On The Veracity Of Variety's Claims In Recent Marvel Studios' "Hit Piece"
By Josh Wilding - Nov 02, 2023
https://comicbookmovie.com/marvel-studios/insiders-cast-doubt-on-the-veracity-of-varietys-claims-in-recent-marvel-studios-hit-piece-a207587#gs.01qcwx 

[BetterButter]

 

[tv echo]

New Captain America Movie and Thunderbolts Team-Up Pushed Back Again, to 2025
BY MATT WEBB MITOVICH   NOVEMBER 10, 2023 
https://tvline.com/news/captain-america-4-movie-thunderbolts-release-dates-delayed-2025-1235078150/ 

[kittykat]

Personally I think pushing back the movies to 2025 is a good thing.  I think Marvel needs to have a fallow year and let people recharge and get excited for these again. 

Ten movies and nine shows is a LOT to digest over a 2 1/2-3 year span as opposed to 23 films over an 11 year span.  Having done a recent rewatch/first time view of all MCU canon/D+ shows (thanks Covid) I'm exhausted.  I'll still watch Echo when it airs 😏.

 

[Morrigan2575]

53 minutes ago, kittykat said:

still watch Echo when it airs 😏.

I had Zero interest in Echo after Hawkeye but, the trailer looked good. Granted it relied heavily on Frisk/Vincent D'Onofrio but, it worked. I will probably give the first episode a try. 

[arc]

Daniel Destin Cretton to direct future Marvel projects, still working on Wonder Man and Shang-Chi 2... but will no longer direct Kang Dynasty:

https://deadline.com/2023/11/marvel-destin-daniel-cretton-avengers-kang-dynasty-exits-1235612901/

Given the end of Loki s2 where

Spoiler

Loki beats (the Kang variant) He Who Remains and fully takes over maintaining the multiverse

I can see how Loki s2 was intended to lay the groundwork for Kang but ended up also allowing Marvel to pivot away from Kang entirely. Who knows, maybe the train is moving too fast to change tracks now, but a May 2026 premiere date seems juuuuuust far enough away that Marvel could pivot (recast Kang, switch to a different Big Bad altogether). Maybe Cretton really didn't have time, or maybe Marvel really is changing directions for this movie in a way he didn't want to continue with.

[baldryanr]

Interesting choice for Mr. Fantastic if true

I would have expected them to look at younger actors.  Plus GOT actors haven't had the best track record in superhero movies...

I'm joking about that last bit being a serious consideration, but it actually is true.  You either have them playing important roles in disappointments (Madden, Clarke, Williams, Turner) or doing glorified cameos (Dinklage, Dormer, Harrington).

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Interesting choice for Mr. Fantastic if true

I would have expected them to look at younger actors.  

I think an older Reed Richards could work. He is supposed to be the smartest man in the world a guy with multiple Ph.D's. Having that guy be like 30 would be kind of dumb to me. I always hate it on movies/TV where the world's most accomplished doctor or something is like a guy who is like 28. Plus Jack Kirby drew Reed Richards as a guy whose hair was going grey. 

It can also work story wise I think. Reed being the guy who continues to develop crazy inventions with the rocket to wherever being what he was working towards for all those years of research and development.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Kel Varnsen

[arc]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I think an older Reed Richards could work. He is supposed to be the smartest man in the world a guy with multiple Ph.D's. Having that guy be like 30 would be kind of dumb to me. I always hate it on movies/TV where the world's most accomplished doctor or something is like a guy who is like 28. Plus Jack Kirby drew Reed Richards as a guy whose hair was going grey. 

Marvel Comics has precedent for teen geniuses, from RiRi Williams to Shuri to Amadeus Cho. And in the Ultimate comics line that initially inspired the first phase of the MCU, Reed Richards was like barely out of high school or something. Definitely appallingly young.

Also, it's another way to highlight that a character is super duper smart: big words coming out of a teen.

But mainly as a practical matter, Marvel Studios usually wants someone who can and will play a role for a good long run, if they're a lynchpin character. They had Hiddleston for over a dozen years. 

[Guest]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:13 PM, kittykat said:

Personally I think pushing back the movies to 2025 is a good thing.  I think Marvel needs to have a fallow year and let people recharge and get excited for these again.

I agree. Everyone needs a chance to miss Marvel movies. 

6 hours ago, baldryanr said:

 

Interesting choice for Mr. Fantastic if true

 

It being in Deadline means it is most likely true. Although the deal could always fall through. He’s not who I would have guessed but it could work really well. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Now they just have to find a kid for him to spend the movie protecting.

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Now they just have to find a kid for him to spend the movie protecting.

Franklin? Age down Johnny? It's doable!

Or, how about Kid Thing! I like that idea.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Anduin

[baldryanr]

9 hours ago, arc said:

Marvel Comics has precedent for teen geniuses, from RiRi Williams to Shuri to Amadeus Cho. And in the Ultimate comics line that initially inspired the first phase of the MCU, Reed Richards was like barely out of high school or something. Definitely appallingly young.

That's something the MCU has been happy to continue.  Shuri has been shown to be on par with Tony and Bruce.  Cassie somehow became an expert working with Pym tehnology even though Hank, Hope, and Janet were dust for 5 years and all she had to go on were Hank's journals.  Peter (and Ned, to a lesser degree) are geniuses.  Super-genius Reed is definitely the type of guy who would have finished school early.  If they go with jackass know-it-all Reed, then forget the PhD entirely and just have him do his own thing because he sees the degree as a waste of time.  Tony Stark probably didn't have a doctorate since he was too busy partying and inventing to do it, plus no one ever referred to him as Dr. Stark.

[shrewd.buddha]

Not that Marvel cares what I think, but I believe that if the MCU refuses to create stand-alone movies -- or a separate cinematic universe that is NOT connected thru a multiverse -- they will continue to have diminishing returns.  The blob of connected content is too large for the average movie-goer to consume. People will stay away rather than do research or watch a Disney+ show before going to see a Marvel movie. 
Things haven't improved with Disney's involvement. The marketing and cross-branding is out of control. Sometimes it seems as if there is more emphasis on hiding 'easter eggs' in movies than telling a solid, satisfying story. 

I had high hopes for The Eternals to be that stand-alone, disconnected movie. The Jack Kirby characters didn't exist in the super-hero Marvel universe (until sales needed a boost).  It could have been a Dune or Blade Runner experience. But, nope.. Instead we got Kit Harington teasing the Black Knight, Harry Styles teasing Starfox and a voice teasing Blade.
It also introduced another set of characters that should have some knowledge or involvement in all the near-earth-ending events that occurred in the last ten years. 

I can remember a time when Marvel Comics published a wide array of genres: horror, romance, sci-fi, and humor.  It seems to me that someone at the top of the Disney-Marvel food chain is going to have to make a drastic choice in their priorities:  entertaining movies or cash-grab content for their streaming service.  

Edited November 16, 2023 by shrewd.buddha

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

The blob of connected content is too large for the average movie-goer to consume. People will stay away rather than do research or watch a Disney+ show before going to see a Marvel movie. 

Yeah, but isn't that just more complaining for not much reason? WandaVision was six hours long, less if you subtract time for the credits, which I thought were much too long for thirty to forty-five minute episodes.  Ms. Marvel was about the same, though I don't know specifics about the other shows. Even allowing that you "have to" watch the movies (which....no, you don't, and even if you did they generally explain things through bits of exposition in later films rather than an elaborate setup.) I thought the explanation of why Clint's hearing was gradually declining was particularly well-done, a short montage of him being caught near explosions that resulted in permanent damage. Boom, it's explained and it took something like a minute.

Again, even deciding that all of the content is something that has to be watched, it kind of sounds like, "I have the attention span of a housefly, so don't give me homework*." That research can always come in the form of an online recap, unless it's a badly written one. Once again, it took a decade to build up to Endgame, but either we keep forgetting that or it's not necessary to watch every freaking thing that happened previously to get why everyone is fighting the big purple dude who turned half of the universe into  into dust. No one ever says, How does Captain America: The First Avenger tie into Thanos' quest to "restore balance" to the galaxy? I mean, it does, but where did we put our patience that we want everything to lead to the end right now or else it's boring?

Have all of the shows been excellent? No. I loved WandaVision and Hawkeye, tolerated FATWS, and enjoyed the rest enough to watch through to the end. I might be an outlier in that all you have to do is make me care. Make me care, and while I might have issues with individual stories, you will always have a fan in me. It's when I stop caring that's my Kryptonite.

Marvel doesn't care what I think either, and honestly I would not want to be in charge of anything anyway given what parts of the fandom have turned into. It's become as bad (worse? maybe) than the Star Wars crowd, because no one seems to hate this franchise more than the people who claim to be fans. Maybe if we could stop expecting everything to be an Endgame level event, we'd be happier. Maybe.

*That is not directed at anyone here, or even anyone in particular. But that really does sound like inventing something to be mad about, since the streaming content isn't going anywhere and can be watched whenever. Lord, it's not that damn complicated.

[shantown]

2 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

Not that Marvel cares what I think, but I believe that if the MCU refuses to create stand-alone movies -- or a separate cinematic universe that is NOT connected thru a multiverse -- they will continue to have diminishing returns.  The blob of connected content is too large for the average movie-goer to consume. People will stay away rather than do research or watch a Disney+ show before going to see a Marvel movie.

1 hour ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Yeah, but isn't that just more complaining for not much reason? WandaVision was six hours long, less if you subtract time for the credits, which I thought were much too long for thirty to forty-five minute episodes.  Ms. Marvel was about the same, though I don't know specifics about the other shows. Even allowing that you "have to" watch the movies (which....no, you don't, and even if you did they generally explain things through bits of exposition in later films rather than an elaborate setup.) I thought the explanation of why Clint's hearing was gradually declining was particularly well-done, a short montage of him being caught near explosions that resulted in permanent damage. Boom, it's explained and it took something like a minute.

(Admittedly I am a casual MCU fan and haven't watched everything but) For me it's not about the amount of time it would take to watch everything - it's that when they've said everything is connected I expect things to be connected. I agree that The Eternals should have happened in a different universe. The explanation of "Oh, we can't interact with the humans" was flimsy at best. And now there's a giant robot head sticking out of the ocean and a giant six-eyed robot appeared in the sky and there has been nothing else said about that. Nothing about the change to the Earth itself, or where the sky robot came from and why it didn't affect gravity at all, nothing about the superheroes that were fighting weird monsters on a beach.

It's why to me, as a casual fan, putting all these stories on the same Earth makes no sense. Why doesn't SHIELD (or whoever) know about the Eternals? Why was Mr. Fantastic never there to help Bruce or Shiri or anyone solve anything science-y? Why wasn't that X-Man girl that kills anything she touches out there trying to play tag with Thanos?

Anyway, I'll still pick and choose what to watch and none of this REALLY matters, but for me it is one of the reasons the MCU is stumbling. Even if you do watch everything (because for me it's not about the time, it's about the content itself) things aren't interacting in a meaningful way, so why bother watching all of it?