The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Spartan Girl]

Okay, fine, so maybe I overestimate James Gunn. Let’s just agree that the MCU in general doesn’t do female characters very well. Even when they get it right, they manage to screw it up eventually.

[swanpride]

Movies in general don't do female characters very well. Sadly. 

[Spartan Girl]

On 5/20/2023 at 3:57 AM, swanpride said:

Movies in general don't do female characters very well. Sadly. 

Well, to be fair, I thought Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 did a better job where Gamora, Nebula, and Mantis were concerned. At least none of them got fridged or turned out to be secretly evil.

[swanpride]

None of them got a proper arc either. Gamora's arc is still entirely informed by Peter's needs, Mantis

Spoiler

decision to leave

comes kind of out of nowhere because nothing really happens which is particularly different from what happened before and Nebula is basically just hanging around and telling everyone they are idiots. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by swanpride

[Raja]

47 minutes ago, swanpride said:

None of them got a proper arc either. Gamora's arc is still entirely informed by Peter's needs, Mantis

  Hide contents

decision to leave

comes kind of out of nowhere because nothing really happens which is particularly different from what happened before and Nebula is basically just hanging around and telling everyone they are idiots. 

I guess you can say that Mantis had the holiday special and Nebula had Avengers Infinity War/Endgame as their moments to shine. With such a large cast all characters can't get their own spotlight in every two hours.

[swanpride]

Endgame actually managed to do that for all the Avengers plus Nebula. 

[arc]

Kevin Feige and Jon Favreau talk Iron Man 1:

 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 5/18/2023 at 1:48 AM, swanpride said:

A lot can be said about the way Gamora as a sacrifice was handled, but I don't really think that it is as much of a deal breaker as some people think it is. Because for me, it is a misconception that love and abusive relationships are exclusive. Love isn't this perfect thing a lot of people see in it, most versions if it are inherently toxic. Or, to put it differently, a problematic love is not the outlier, but achieving a love which isn't problematic is the goal we need to strife for. 

Perhaps, but this feels like an entirely different conversation. Right after Infinity War happened, someone posted that 'the award for the worst way to find out your dad loves you goes to Gamora', and I don't think that's unfair. Thanos also told Nebula that he didn't even think she was worth the effort to kill, so does that mean that if he loved her he'd have killed her too? Yes, in real life abusers say 'I love you' all the time, but conventional wisdom is that we should reject that, not accept it as truth. There's some argument in there (maybe) that Red Skull was deceived, that because Thanos believed he truly loved Gamora, her death sealed the deal as far as him getting what he wanted. Let's be honest, in life Johann Schmidt was only a reliable narrator in the sense that he was a Nazi lunatic who got even crazier when he started his quest to possess the Tesseract. Who knows what he thought love entailed. And I don't believe the Stones themselves were ever considered to be sentient, not in the way we think of it.

I know, I know, I'm wildly theorizing. Leave me be, it's been a long week today. 🙂

[tv echo]

Iron Man: 15 Years Later with Kevin Feige and Jon Favreau
Marvel Entertainment    May 24, 2023

Elizabeth Olsen talks LOVE & DEATH, WANDAVISION, advice for Marvel actors: Happy Sad Confused
Josh Horowitz    May 25, 2023

Quote

05:24 Aubrey Plaza/Ruining Infinity War
*  *  *
23:08 10 years in the MCU
*  *  *
25:49 Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness
27:45 Daniel Craig in Doctor Strange?
29:24 Advice for actors joining the MCU

Edited May 25, 2023 by tv echo

[BetterButter]

Deadpool 3 has started filming—and Ryan Reynolds isn't allowed to improvise

 

 

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, BetterButter said:

Deadpool 3 has started filming—and Ryan Reynolds isn't allowed to improvise

 

 

Seriously?!

[Raja]

4 hours ago, BetterButter said:

Deadpool 3 has started filming—and Ryan Reynolds isn't allowed to improvise

 

 

So while trying to keep productions on schedule Ryan Reynolds has taken to sabotaging the effort? I guess when the strike is over we will be hearing about the reshoots and problems with the movies.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

As per the article, any deviation from the script could be considered strike-breaking under the rules of the Guild. Reynolds is a writer on the third movie, was given a writer's credit during Deadpool's last outing based on how much dialogue he improvised, but due to the strike he won't be allowed to alter the dialogue on the fly at least until this situation is resolved. It's confusing.

[Spartan Girl]

Seriously, just pay the writers!

[Guest]

It really shouldn’t be that much of a hinderance. Assuming the strike has ended by then, the mask means he can ad lib during adr after the shoot as finished. Most of the dialogue with a mask already needs to be redone. 

The inability to rewrite everyone else’s lines if needed is probably going to be more of a factor. 

[Morrigan2575]

Interesting,  never really thought about how the writers strike could impact ad lib.

[SeanC]

On 5/24/2023 at 11:16 PM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Perhaps, but this feels like an entirely different conversation. Right after Infinity War happened, someone posted that 'the award for the worst way to find out your dad loves you goes to Gamora', and I don't think that's unfair. Thanos also told Nebula that he didn't even think she was worth the effort to kill, so does that mean that if he loved her he'd have killed her too? Yes, in real life abusers say 'I love you' all the time, but conventional wisdom is that we should reject that, not accept it as truth. There's some argument in there (maybe) that Red Skull was deceived, that because Thanos believed he truly loved Gamora, her death sealed the deal as far as him getting what he wanted. Let's be honest, in life Johann Schmidt was only a reliable narrator in the sense that he was a Nazi lunatic who got even crazier when he started his quest to possess the Tesseract. Who knows what he thought love entailed. And I don't believe the Stones themselves were ever considered to be sentient, not in the way we think of it.

I know, I know, I'm wildly theorizing. Leave me be, it's been a long week today. 🙂

Thanos "loves" Gamora insofar as he feels an emotional attachment to her and is sad at her death. That's all that the Soul Stone cares about. It's not framed as evidence that he's a good person or whatever, it's just a measure of his willingness to give up something that matters to him personally.

If you're defining love as a healthy relationship, arguably it's impossible to ever meet the test's criteria since being willing to kill the person in question for your own advancement inherently a negative.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Excuse me while I swallow my own fist, because dear God, not again.....
 

 

[Anduin]

No thanks. I've never enjoyed his movies.

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Excuse me while I swallow my own fist, because dear God, not again.....
 

 

[Kel Varnsen]

18 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Excuse me while I swallow my own fist, because dear God, not again.....
 

 

Cool. I love the Evil Dead movies, and Spider-man 2 is easily a top tier super hero movie for me, even to this day. Sure his Dr strange wasn't great but there were some cool parts, and I would way rather watch that again than say The Eternals.

Plus when I think about the Secret Wars comic storyline and what I know about it, Raimi is absolutely the one director will probably know better than to put Peter Parker in that stupid black costume.

[swanpride]

Raimi's style simply doesn't fit the MCU. That has Multiverse proven. Nevermind his inability to handle female characters with even an ounce of dignity. 

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, swanpride said:

Raimi's style simply doesn't fit the MCU.

You could say the same thing about Ryan Coogler. But personally I like how different movies have different visual styles. Everything looking the same and everyone sounding similar would be much more of an issue for me if they continued that.

5 hours ago, swanpride said:

Nevermind his inability to handle female characters with even an ounce of dignity. 

Do you really think what happened with Wanda was his decision? He didn't write the script and from what I under of how the MCU is run, the major movie plot points are decided on a a much higher level than the director or even screen writers. 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Do you really think what happened with Wanda was his decision? He didn't write the script and from what I under of how the MCU is run, the major movie plot points are decided on a a much higher level than the director or even screen writers. 

Oh, I don’t blame Raimi for everything that happened with Wanda: that’s mostly at Feige’s feet. But the whole Strange pining after Christine in all the universes? C’mon, it was the Spider-Man movies all over again…

Edited May 28, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Do you really think what happened with Wanda was his decision? He didn't write the script and from what I under of how the MCU is run, the major movie plot points are decided on a a much higher level than the director or even screen writers. 

Wanda was so massively mishandled in MoM that I think everyone (except Elizabeth Olson) gets a share of the blame. The major plot points were bad but most of the little decision were also bad. Who knows, maybe if he had actually cared about Wanda as a character enough to watch or read the WandaVision script he could have made it better. 

With a different director I might be more forgiving but Rami did write the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man movies which completely failed it’s female characters. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

7 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Do you really think what happened with Wanda was his decision? He didn't write the script and from what I under of how the MCU is run, the major movie plot points are decided on a a much higher level than the director or even screen writers. 

I put at least half of it at his feet. No, he didn't write the script, but I've seen his other work, including Army of Darkness. The Darkhold is the Necronomicon, for all intents and purposes, and either that was part of what drew him to the project or....what? At best, he didn't watch all of WandaVision, so he didn't know this was going to be a whole-ass retread of something that had already happened, something Wanda had come out on the other side of*. The rewrites certainly didn't help, because I know that Elizabeth Olsen said she quit reading those at one point because she knew there'd just be more changes later, but I do think Raimi has a particular esthetic as a director.

*"But, but, but, she brainwashed people and got away with it, so of course she'd go on doing bad things!" And I would have believed in the outrage if that loop hadn't turned into a mixtape of "Zemo's a great dancer, so it's not that bad that Bucky helped him escape from prison." Raimi can direct Thunderbolts** when it comes back into production for those who really want him here, since between unstable murderer John Walker, child trafficker Alexei Shostakov, and terrorist enabler Bucky Barnes he'd have plenty of fertile ground for a heel turn. They can be a trio of suck for the others to band together against, then dispatch.

**I'm kidding, I wouldn't want him anywhere near Yelena's next project either. He'd skip over those idiots entirely and do something stupid with her instead.

[SeanC]

Raimi's a terrific director with an actual sense of style, something lacking from a majority of MCU films, so I'm all for him doing more of them as long as the studio actually lets him bring those qualities to the proceedings.

[Guest]

Given how many of the superheroes going into the Secret Wars are women, I will be extremely apprehensive is Raimi is the director. It’s not that I dislike him as a director but I don’t think he can pull off adequately servicing multiple characters in a way that is necessary for an Avengers movie being made today.

So far the MCU has proven to me that when the directors are themselves diverse, women and characters of color are being handled more thoughtfully so it does really concern me that my point of view will be an afterthought. As much as I have enjoyed past Marvel movies, I’m past the point of being okay with that. 

[Enigma X]

On 5/27/2023 at 12:52 AM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Excuse me while I swallow my own fist, because dear God, not again.....
 

 

@Cobalt Stargazer My thumbs up is that I agree with you. I have not been enamored with any of the Marvel directors most fans love. This includes Raimi, Gunn, and Waititi. I am a complete MCU fan girl, but whatevs...

[swanpride]

Oh, I actually dislike Raimi as a director..his style is too cartoney for my taste and while it might sound out that I consider this a drawback in a comic book movie, well, there is a difference between, say, Gunns brand of cartoney and Raimis's...the main difference being that the latter ones style is kind of stupid. 

[tv echo]

FYI...

Next on Disney+: June 2023
May 15, 2023
https://press.disneyplus.com/news/next-on-disney-plus-june-2023

Quote

Friday, June 16
*  *  *
Stan Lee - Premiere
From Marvel Studios and acclaimed director David Gelb, "STAN LEE" is the official documentary film about Stan “The Man” Lee and his rise to influence in the world of comic books and pop culture. Tracing his life from his upbringing as Stanley Lieber to the rise of Marvel Comics, "STAN LEE" tells the story of Stan Lee’s life, career, and legacy in his own words through personal archive material.

[tv echo]

Stan Lee | Official Trailer | Disney+
Marvel Entertainment    Jun 9, 2023

[BetterButter]

Blade previously dated on 9/6/24 moves to 2/14/25 

Fantastic Four previously dated on 2/14/25 moves to 5/2/25 

 Untitled Deadpool Movie previously dated on 11/8/24 moves to 5/3/24 

Avengers: The Kang Dynasty previously dated on 5/2/25 moves to 5/1/26 

Avengers: Secret Wars previously dated 5/1/26 is now dated on 5/7/27 

Edited June 13, 2023 by BetterButter

[AimingforYoko]

16 minutes ago, BetterButter said:

Avengers: The Kang Dynasty previously dated on 5/2/25 moves to 5/1/26 

Avengers: Secret Wars previously dated 5/1/26 is now dated on 5/7/27 

Who are we blaming for this, Majors or the WGA?

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Who are we blaming for this, Majors or the WGA?

Probably WGA fault but they're quite happy since it buys time

Edited June 14, 2023 by Morrigan2575

[Spartan Girl]

4 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Who are we blaming for this, Majors or the WGA?

The studio executives for not giving the writers a fair deal.

[Morrigan2575]

I thought they had agreed on money, the use of AI was the sticking point...which is a scary thought

Edited June 14, 2023 by Morrigan2575

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I thought they had agreed on mone, the use of AI was the sticking point...which is a scary thought

The AI thing is weird to be fighting over since it could be used negatively by both sides. Of course a studio not hiring writers and just using AI scripts would be a problem. But so would a writer hired to write a script, then getting an AI program to do it for them and passing it off as their own. Has the WGA proposed any rules to keep that from happening?

[tv echo]

All of the delayed MCU movie and series release dates...

New Captain America Movie, Thunderbolts Team-Up and Avengers: Kang Dynasty All Pushed Back
BY MATT WEBB MITOVICH   JUNE 13, 2023 
https://tvline.com/news/captain-america-brave-new-world-release-date-delay-avengers-kang-dynasty-1234999596/ 

Edited June 20, 2023 by tv echo

[dmeets]

At this rate they should probably be focusing their eventual X-Men casting searches on middle schoolers since they'll be age appropriate by the time those movies start filming

[Spartan Girl]

At this point I only care about Deadpool 3.

[BetterButter]

‘The Incredible Hulk’ Bows On Disney+ After A Long Wait

[Anduin]

17 minutes ago, BetterButter said:

‘The Incredible Hulk’ Bows On Disney+ After A Long Wait

Have Eric Bana or Ed Norton ever talked about Ruffalo's success in the role? I never saw Norton's movie, but I remember enjoying Bana's Hulk. Not enough to see it again, but I liked it at the time.

[Kel Varnsen]

9 hours ago, Anduin said:

Have Eric Bana or Ed Norton ever talked about Ruffalo's success in the role? I never saw Norton's movie, but I remember enjoying Bana's Hulk. Not enough to see it again, but I liked it at the time.

The big thing I remember about the Bana Hulk movie is the gamma poodle. The only stuff I really remember about Norton is the behind the scenes stuff and how he was hard to work with. He also had some level of script approval in his contract. It funny to think how back in 2008 he was probably the biggest star in either the Hulk or Iron Man (maybe it was Paltrow) and maybe the biggest/most bankable star in all the phase 1 movies (at least among the title characters, Portman was probably at least as big too).

Edited June 16, 2023 by Kel Varnsen

[Anduin]

35 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The big thing I remember about the Bana Hulk movie is the gamma poodle. The only stuff I really remember about Norton is the behind the scenes stuff and how he was hard to work with. He also had some level of script approval in his contract. It funny to think how back in 2008 he was probably the biggest star in either the Hulk or Iron Man (maybe it was Paltrow) and maybe the biggest/most bankable star in all the phase 1 movies (at least among the title characters, Portman was probably at least as big too).

I just remembered the joke around Bana's movie. Between the Green Destiny and Hulk, Ang Lee really likes green. Also, wasn't the villain defeated by him throwing a grenade at the Hulk, it bouncing off and killing him? Something like that.

[tv echo]

Samuel L. Jackson Talks Marvel, [OMITTED REST OF HEADLINE]
BY MARLOW STONE   JUNE 20, 2023
Rolling Stone article link

Quote

The SAG strike is looming as well. Tom Hanks recently discussed his fears about AI, and how the studios may produce work featuring you after you’ve passed.
People just started worrying about that? I asked about that a long time ago. ... Ever since I’ve been in the Marvel Universe, every time you change costumes in a Marvel movie, they scan you. Ever since I did Captain Marvel, and they did the Lola project where they de-aged me and everything else, it’s like, “Well, I guess they can do this anytime they want to do it if they really want to!” It could be something to worry about. Future actors should do what I always do when I get a contract and it has the words “in perpetuity” and “known and unknown” on it: I cross that shit out. It’s my way of saying, “No, I do not approve of this.”
*  *  *
Let’s talk Secret Invasion. Had you been pushing Marvel to give Nick Fury his own project for a while?
I actually have not. My biggest concern with Marvel was trying to keep them from killing me more than anything else. [Laughs] I kind of liked the gig! When they called me in to tell me what’s going on, I always thought they were trying to kill me. They didn’t let me go to Wakanda, which I was kind of upset about. How could Nick Fury not know about Wakanda? They said, “Well, you do know but you can’t go.” I always wanted to tell the story about who Nick was before he had these superhero friends — when he lived in the shadow world as a spy, and how he connected with these people. Secret Invasion is not a superhero movie. It’s gritty and dark.

When you first popped up as Nick Fury in Iron Man, did you have any idea you’d be playing him for 15-plus years?
They told me they were giving me a 9-picture deal, and at the time, making nine pictures would’ve taken almost 10, 12 years. I had no idea that it would happen that quickly. I’ve been grateful for the work and the character. I’ve been fortunate to fall into some franchise things over the years, from Jurassic Park to Star Wars to this.

Was that a good 9-picture deal for you, or a bad Scottie Pippen-type deal? Did they lock you in at a low rate or do you feel you’ve been fairly compensated?
Every deal was negotiable. [Laughs] Every movie was a negotiated deal. It wasn’t like, “You do one movie and the next one will be X more dollars.” It was better than that. It’s been equitable in terms of what it’s been and how it’s played out. But there are things I wish I’d been in that I wasn’t in, like Civil War. If the kids are fighting, why isn’t Nick Fury there to send them to their rooms? They never explained that to me.
*  *  *
You’re going to be in The Marvels with Brie Larson, and you two are good pals. She got so much hate for playing Captain Marvel from the more sexist side of Marvel’s fanbase. What was it like to see her go through that?
Brie’s a stronger person than people give her credit for. We had done Kong together, which was not the most wonderful experience for either of us. We became great friends during that particular experience because we were having such a hard time. Then, when she was doing her movie [Unicorn Store] and trying to get a particular actor, I was in the makeup trailer with her and was like, “Why are you trying to hire this other actor and not trying to get me to do your movie?” She said, “I didn’t think you’d ever do it… so, will you?” And I was like, “Let’s do it.” ... Then, when she got Captain Marvel, she called me and was like, “They want me in the Marvel Universe. Should I do it?” And I was like, “Hell yeah! Let’s do it!” But she’s not going to let any of that stuff destroy her. These incel dudes who hate strong women, or the fact that she’s a feminist who has an opinion and expressed it? Everybody wants people to be who they want them to be. She is who she is, and she’s genuinely that.

Edited June 20, 2023 by tv echo

[tv echo]

No Marvel panels at SDCC this year...

Comic-Con Crisis: Marvel, Netflix, Sony, HBO and Universal to Skip SDCC as Fest Faces Another Existential Threat
By Adam B. Vary    June 23, 2023
https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/comic-con-schedule-marvel-netflix-hbo-sony-universal-skipping-1235653256/ 

Quote

.... If SAG-AFTRA and the AMPTP cannot come to terms by the June 30 contract deadline and the guild goes on strike, actors will almost certainly join writers and showrunners in sitting out promotional events like Comic-Con, leaving studios with almost no one to populate panels in front of thousands of expectant fans.

Amid that uncertainty, several studios have preemptively nixed plans for a robust presence at SDCC this year. Disney and its subsidiaries Marvel Studios and Lucasfilm are not planning any panels, cutting off the chance to showcase the casts for upcoming projects like “The Marvels,” “Loki” Season 2, “Ahsoka” and “Haunted Mansion.” ....

Edited June 26, 2023 by tv echo

[swanpride]

Well, it's not exactly a surprise that Disney skips comic-con - They have their own event after all, which is also supposed to be as special as possible due to the celebration of Disney's 100 anniversary. 

[tv echo]

Chadwick Boseman and Kevin Feige will receive stars on The Hollywood Walk of Fame next year...

Michelle Yeoh, Sammy Hagar, Chadwick Boseman named 2024 Hollywood Walk of Fame honorees
by: Christine Samra  Jun 26, 2023 
https://ktla.com/entertainment/sheryl-lee-ralph-dr-dre-sammy-hagar-chadwick-boseman-named-2024-hollywood-walk-of-fame-honorees/ 

Quote

The Hollywood Walk of Fame revealed the 2024 class of honorees on Monday morning.
*  *  *
The late actor Chadwick Boseman will be posthumously honored on the star-studded street in the Motion Pictures category. Others in the category include Michelle Yeoh, Chris Pine, Kevin Feige, Chris Meledandri, Gal Gadot, Christina Ricci and Maggie Gyllenhaal.

Edited June 27, 2023 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Behind The Scenes: Making of “Rogers: The Musical” | Disneyland Resort
Disney Parks    Jun 23, 2023

Quote

Go behind the scenes for a rare first look at the set designs, plus the dance and music rehearsals for “Rogers: The Musical” premiering June 30th for a limited time at Disney California Adventure Park. See what the action is like on stage at the Hyperion Theater and take a closer look at the Super-Soldier Transformation Chamber set.

As part of the Disney100 celebration at Disneyland Resort, the Hyperion Theater at Disney California Adventure Park presents “Rogers: The Musical” – an all-new, one-act live theater production performing for a limited time, June 30-Aug. 31, 2023. Inspired by the fictional musical number from the first episode of the Disney+ series “Hawkeye,” the real-life “Rogers: The Musical” tells the story of Steve Rogers – Captain America, including his relationship with Peggy Carter. The 30-minute show was brought to life through the creativity of Disney Live Entertainment, in partnership with book writer Hunter Bell and featuring music by Grammy-winning composer Christopher Lennertz.

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by tv echo