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Lisin

Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

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I met Emily Bett-Rickards at a convention in Chicago and we geeked out about Orphan Black and Game of Thrones. So I'm a fan.

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She's been sorely underused in recent episodes, if you ask me. Not coincidentally, this has been since Sara became a member of Team Arrow, and also not coincidentally, less Felicity Smoak has had a significant impact on my enthusiasm for the show.

She's been the best thing about it since her first scene, if you ask me. And the best thing they ever did on the show was make her a regular. But right now, she feels tangential to everything that's happening, and little more than an afterthought.

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Her first scene really was awesome.  I loved how Ollie was trying to be all "Hey, fix this computer, I spilled coffee on it", and she was just like "Those look like bullet holes, Mr. Queen", leading to hilarious lame "I... was having coffee in a bad neighborhood!" excuse.  A great way to introduce the character.

It's still crazy to think she was only intended for just one episode.  I just can't see this show working as well as it has, without her.  At least TPTB were smart to see how awesome Emily Bett-Rickards is (credit to Stephen Amell too, who I heard really pushed for more Felicity after her first episode.)

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Yeah, there has definitely been a dropoff in the amount/quality of Felicity time, but I think it's just because the front half of the season was pretty Felicity-heavy (compared to S1). I am definitely WAY more interested in Famous Original Team Arrow than I am in the Lance sisters, but I'm willing to give the show the benefit of the doubt and see how they pull off the last quarter of the season.

I think they know the kind of magic they have in Felicity, so I don't doubt they want to use her in the best way possible. I just think they're setting up some other things here.

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I think they probably are just trying to give some attention to other storylines, but that doesn't really console me when Felicity only gets two or three lines an episode.

We've talked about this on TWoP, but I do really think she brings a light and energy to the show that no other character does. She did with Oliver himself, starting in that scene that thuganomics85 outlined, when she made him smile, and she made me smile as well. Without her presence, the show becomes a dour, joyless place. And while that's fun in measured amounts, too much of it just kills my interest.

It's still crazy to think she was only intended for just one episode.  I just can't see this show working as well as it has, without her.  At least TPTB were smart to see how awesome Emily Bett-Rickards is (credit to Stephen Amell too, who I heard really pushed for more Felicity after her first episode.)

 

Yeah. So, so much credit has to go to Emily Bett Rickards for making such an impact in that initial scene, and for instantly becoming a character who "pops", to use TV network jargon. I remember that people were talking about her after that episode as someone they wanted to see again, and then when she reappeared, as someone they wanted to be a regular. Of course, by the time her first appearance aired, the writers already knew what they had in her, and had put her into a couple more episodes, with a view to establishing her.

All of this is why The Odyssey is one of my favourite episodes, despite my lack of interest in the island flashbacks. Seeing Felicity brought into the Vigilante's world was so much fun. Seeing her take everything in, banter with Diggle, worry about Oliver, and do it all with the charm I'd come to expect from her, really was a highpoint of the show.

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I really enjoyed her scene with Diggle in the Suicide Squad. It was short but strong. Even when the plot doesn't call for her to do a lot, they should still take the time to bring out more character moments.

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Not to mention the need to have humor in the show, especially now that Slade has gone all bonkers instead of snarky.  

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Pity. A bonkers Slade being snarky would be awesome.

Heh, absolutely.

I have to say I'm a huge fan of Felicity and EBR's portrayal.  EBR is one of those great actors who doesn't seem to ever 'switch off' even if she's not the focus of a scene/piece of dialog - she's always emoting, always reacting.

Even if Arrow doesn't recover from it's current story slump, I think it'll always be dear to me for this reason and I really hope EBR gets a great career off the back of it.

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Felicity and specifically EBR is why I kept watching Arrow. I was this close to stopping out of boredom when she showed up. Suddenly this dark, dull, wooden character (Oliver) became human, he seemed real.

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Looks like the TWOP floodgates have opened LOL. Hi All!

I love Felicity and I miss her terribly in these last few episodes, hopefully once we get past the "villains chapter" Felicity and Team Arrow (original recipe) will get more screen time.

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Although Oliver is for me the center of Arrow...or because Oliver is the center of Arrow, and I don't feel watching when he's douchy or in a toxic environment, I hope that Felicity (and Diggle) who make him better and more compelling to watch imo, will soon recover her (their) central place in the whole thing and make me enjoy the show again.

And I completely agree about EBR. Imo, "Arrow" struck gold three times with the "unexpected" and her, David Ramsey andd Bex Taylor-Klaus (Sin has imo the same uncanny power as Felicity to make anyone she interacts with better).

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Hooray Felicity!  Besides loving seeing a smart and capable gal on the show, I really enjoy how there is such a clarity of communication between her and Oliver; they just can't lie to or withhold from each other.  Diggle and Oliver are pretty candid, but there is still a bit of manly facade going on (which they usually apologize for later, a nice touch) while Felicity can't seem to lie to Oliver and vice versa. 

I saw a post elsewhere where someone compared Diggle/Slade and Felicity/Shado as an Island/Starling City juxtaposition - almost as if Oliver is rebuilding that triad of loving relationships (love of all types) around himself. The writers also deliberately juxtapose Felicity and Shado through mirrored dialogue in several places - "My life, my choice" / "Her life, her choice." - which indicates that they want us to compare the two characters in some ways.  I don't think that everything needs to be the same (the directions of romantic attraction, for example) since while the characters may have similar types of relationships with Oliver, the setting and their personal circumstances are certainly different.  But it's a nice starting point (and excuse to rewatch to catch the connections).

The chemistry between the two actors is great; SA has commented that EBR just brings out something in him.  So that certainly contributes.  I hope that the show writers give the actors more opportunities to have these great, clear, and vulnerable interactions to let them shine. 

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As Oliver is being a dick right now, I'm kind of hoping that the show has more one-on-one scenes with Felicity and Diggle.  The scenes that the two shared in the Clock King episode as well as Suicide Squad episode were lovely.  They have such a warm sweet chemistry, and I would like to see more of these two together.

I've been thinking lately that maybe Felicity will be leaving the team temporarily towards the end of this season either because she feels taken for granted or because she is somehow put in danger.  It could parallel the start of this season where Diggle and Felicity went to the island to retrieve Oliver.  Only this time, it would be Diggle and Oliver trying to convince Felicity to come back to the team. 

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I know it's a massively unpopular opinion, but I'm kind of over Felicity.  I actually still think the world of Emily Bett-Rickards, but the character is kind of uninteresting to me at this point.  I'm not all that interested to see the Fan Proxy as the Twu Wuv, and even though its being slow played its clear that's where its eventually going.

I'd love to see Emily Bett-Rickards on another show--one where she could be the obvious lead, not feel shoehorned in, and thrive.  A well written comedy, maybe.

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I know it's a massively unpopular opinion, but I'm kind of over Felicity.  I actually still think the world of Emily Bett-Rickards, but the character is kind of uninteresting to me at this point.

 

I do feel like her character has been massively underused lately but rather than get over her character, her absence and any little appearance she does make just makes me want to see her all that more.  I'm hopeful that we'll have more of her backstory next season.  I am a bit nervous of some contrived tie in to the past (like saying Ivo is her dad) but even if the story line stretches some credulity, I have confidence in EBR's ability to sell the material.   

I've been thinking lately that maybe Felicity will be leaving the team temporarily towards the end of this season either because she feels taken for granted or because she is somehow put in danger.  It could parallel the start of this season where Diggle and Felicity went to the island to retrieve Oliver.  Only this time, it would be Diggle and Oliver trying to convince Felicity to come back to the team.

 

I've wondered about something like this as well.  Last year during the summer hiatus we had the time jump and Oliver having been gone the whole time, effectively keeping the characters left behind in Starling City from doing much growing without him.  I wonder if the time jump and the keeping the main characters apart will be the standard way the show handles summer breaks or if they will mix it up and pick up exactly where the show left off. 

I think Felicity running away from home would only make sense if something like Ivo turning out to be her father does happen.  She finds out, freaks, and runs away because that is a conversation I wouldn't want to have.  Or I suppose it could be something much simpler, like she goes home to take care of a sick mother. 

While I do really like the basic dynamic of Oliver and Felicity working together, since the show has stepped back from scenes at Queen Industries (is that the name?) I feel like we hardly see Felicity anymore.  The first half of the season felt like the show had a bigger scope and presence.  Now it feels like things only happen in the Arrowcave or in some non-descript dark alley. 

I think one of the reasons I so much enjoyed the scene between Felicity and Diggle in Suicide Squad was just seeing them outside the normal sets. 

Edited by Lisin · Reason: Changed Olive to Oliver

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Whoa... Ivo being her dad ... I see potential there for her and Sara to connect more and some good tension with Oliver and Slade.  But there'd also be some big pits to avoid in executing it. 

That would help keep her from becoming love interest and instead keep focus on her friendship with Oliver and Diggle.  I'd prefer to see EBR's and SA's incredible chemistry used to defy expectations and show TV viewers a positive, trusting, loving relationship that doesn't have to culminate in romance... at least not so soon.  I'm thinking Josh and Donna (West Wing) or Adama and Roslin (BSG).

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It's interesting you mention Adama and Roslin. Their end was a bit more tragic than I like (I'm a happy ever after ending kind of girl) but I still consider their relationship one of the best portrayed on television. There was such respect for the characters and between the characters. It was a beautifully romantic thing to watch. It briefly at least broke the stereotype on what mattered in a love story.

Neither were young, neither were overtly sexy. Perhaps that is what made their romance so strong in the end. The show runners couldn't fall back on looks alone to explain why they would be drawn to one another. They actually had to do relationship building. They had to show them learning who the other person was and show them coming to appreciate and understand each other's strengths and weaknesses. We saw them argue and laugh and compromise and sometimes still completely disagree but while maintaining a respect for each other.

The foundation for Adama and Roslin's love felt real and I would adore if Arrow could do something like that with Olicity. Hell, I don't care if it is with Felicity, I just want to see that level of work put into whatever endgame relationship is planned for Oliver even if he only ends up sitting in a cabin on a cliff devoted to the memory of his salmon ladder. Just give me a love I can believe in.

I really see that kind of potential with Felicity, but so few shows are willing or able to put in the needed effort.

Edited by BkWurm1
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The foundation for Adama and Roslin's love felt real and I would adore if Arrow could do something like that with Olicity. Hell, I don't care if it is with Felicity, I just want to see that level of work put into whatever endgame relationship is planned for Oliver even if he only ends up sitting in a cabin on a cliff devoted to the memory of his salmon ladder. Just give me a love I can believe in.

I really see that kind of potential with Felicity, but so few shows are willing or able to put in the needed effort.

Exactly!  And they worked for exactly those reasons you pointed to - it was so well built that it almost didn't matter if there was anything overtly romantic.  That was just icing on the cake of trust and affection.  But there also was the ability of each to see each other and call each other on their BS; that's what I see potential for here.

And given that Oliver relies so much on walls (and ironically, lies), when he isn't allowed that with a character, that gives so many great narrative possibilities.  I get a feeling that SA is also taking initiative on many nonverbal interactions with EBR (I'm sure some Olicity person has tallied up how many times he touches EBR each episode) that bring some much needed subtlety (and ambiguity) to a "CW show." There is just something to her body language that invites more layers of interaction - something great to see in an actor.

I also think you've converted me to the real OTP of Arrow: Oliver/Salmon Ladder!  I suspect Felicity would approve of it, and it gives whole new meaning to seeing Sara on the Ladder as well.

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Adama/Roslin os probably the best example of what a TV relationship should be, at least for me. I wish more shows would do that but they seem to fall into the Buffy/Angel, Starbuck/Apollo angst and self destruction makes for an epic love story...NOT! At least not IMO

I love Josh/Donna as well, they fell a little more into the typical TV relationship of will they/won't they and jealousy/missed opportunities. However I felt their ending was both realistic and satisfying. I especially loved that Donna really grew and came into her own as an equal/counterpart to Josh before they got together.

I'm not sure this show is capable of doing something good with relationships, they have all the pieces in place for Olicity to follow the Josh/Donna or Adama/Roslin model but their track record kind of sucks.

As far as Felicity goes I worry about her getting some potentially angsty backstory or tie to the Island (must everything be tied to that stupid place? ).

At this point I just miss the character, I want the Felicity back who would argue with Oliver ot seems that after 210 they did an about face with the character in order to put Sara/Oliver together and I don't see why.

I just hope 219-223 brings good things for Felicity, Diggle and Team Arrow because I really miss them.

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Neither were young, neither were overtly sexy. Perhaps that is what made their romance so strong in the end. The show runners couldn't fall back on looks alone to explain why they would be drawn to one another. They actually had to do relationship building.

You guys are really making me wish I'd watched Battlestar Galactica! 

Felicity is one of my favorite female characters----not just on this particular show, but currently on TV. She's near the top of the (rapidly dwindling!) list of reasons why I'm still hooked on this show.

The thing is, I actually think she's way too good for Oliver. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of the 'sweet, smart good girl tames the shallow playboy' trope in general, even when said playboy happens to be a secret superhero. And while I agree that Felicity's character and the eminently likable actress who plays her make Oliver less wooden, warmer and more relatable, I'm more and more at a loss to see what *she* would get out of a romance with *him.* Other than an up close and personal look at those abs, of course. :) I'm just not sure how she could ever fully trust him to be faithful...and to not be an arrogant, fratty, douchey dope. 

I'd love to see her with someone like Barry, a guy who's also smart, endearingly socially awkward and sweet. A guy she could 'get' and trust. A guy who she'd never have to worry would try to sleep with her sibling ;) I get that to many this makes for duller TV, but I've always preferred couples with more commonality and compatibility over the immensely popular 'opposites attract', most of whom just end up seeming uncomfortably incompatible to me. (Needless to say, this means I find it hard to root for the vast majority of TV/movie couples!)

Mostly, though, I just want to see Felicity defined more outside of her relationship with Oliver. I get that the show isn't all about her, but I'd still like to see more glimpses of her non-Oliver life and her interactions with non-Oliver people. 

Edited by mstaken
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I realize that this show dropped Huge Huge Felicity's Father Is a Villain Anvils all over the place, but I have my fingers crossed that the villain won't turn out to be Ivo. Felicity already skyjumped into the island; she doesn't need another connection to the place. The number of characters connected to the island has gone way over the ridiculous line as it is, and DC has a lot of other potential villains who could be her father. Or they could make up a new bad guy, as long as he's not connected to the island. Whichever. 

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The thing is, I actually think she's way too good for Oliver. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of the 'sweet, smart good girl tames the shallow playboy' trope in general, even when said playboy happens to be a secret superhero. And while I agree that Felicity's character and the eminently likable actress who plays her make Oliver less wooden, warmer and more relatable, I'm more and more at a loss to see what *she* would get out of a romance with *him.* Other than an up close and personal look at those abs, of course. :) I'm just not sure how she could ever fully trust him to be faithful...and to not be an arrogant, fratty, douchey dope. 

I can understand this sentiment, but not for these reasons. I just truly don't see Oliver as a shallow playboy. I know that's who he was in the comics, but we haven't seen even a glimpse of that in this character, post-Island (aside from his putting on an act). The only person he's had sex with without feelings involved was Isabel, and I had no problem with that decision. (Except that he probably shouldn't trust her, even that far.) Otherwise, he's slept with four women in a year (McKenna, Helena, Laurel, Sara), and he was dating or in love with all of them. Pretty pathetic for a playboy.

And as far as shallow goes...that's about the last thing I'd call this version of Oliver. Especially when it comes to his relationships with the people who know his secret. But even those who don't--Laurel, Moira, Thea, and Lance (if he doesn't know)--his relationships and interactions with them are all complex and real.

Personally, I don't think Oliver is ready for a relationship with Felicity because he doesn't think he deserves someone like her right now. I think he sees her as too pure and good for him, because of the terrible things he's done and his damage. I don't think they should be together until he is ready for a good, healthy relationship, but I could see it working someday when he's done a little more work on himself.

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I do feel like her character has been massively underused lately but rather than get over her character, her absence and any little appearance she does make just makes me want to see her all that more.

 Yes, I feel the same. Just like I felt that her evolution and place in the show evolved naturally -she was never forced into becoming the center, I feel that her recent outphasing has been most unnatural and part of a "political" decision that is at the root of my growing disinterest.

 

    Felicity is one of my favorite female characters----not just on this particular show, but currently on TV. She's near the top of the (rapidly dwindling!) list of reasons why I'm still hooked on this show.

    The thing is, I actually think she's way too good for Oliver. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of the 'sweet, smart good girl tames the shallow playboy' trope in general, even when said playboy happens to be a secret superhero. And while I agree that Felicity's character and the eminently likable actress who plays her make Oliver less wooden, warmer and more relatable, I'm more and more at a loss to see what *she* would get out of a romance with *him.* Other than an up close and personal look at those abs, of course. :) I'm just not sure how she could ever fully trust him to be faithful...and to not be an arrogant, fratty, douchey dope.

I completely understand what you say about the trope of the "sweet/good woman", but that's precisely why I loved the relationship between Oliver and Felicity. She wasn't the motivation for his change, it wasn't for her that he tried to be a hero (the show tried to make me believe it was for she-who-shall-not-be-named before it went the better Tommy route -imo). Felicity understood him, and supported him because of the person she is and because she saw him for who he truly was, which made it way more interesting to me than some "for lurve". Moreover, in spite of the imho fanon image of Felicity being Oliver's sycophant, she wasn't sweet at all on him and was, I think,  the one who argued with him the most (with Diggle).  On the other hand, I liked that he seemed impressed by her skills, first and foremost, and not being a victim of the Dulcinea effect when it came to her. He seemed to believe in her and value her on his turn -and it seems she wasn't in her past, re: "[Walter] was nice to me"- and allowed her to be useful in a way she never imagined she could be. I agree that her POV on that is missing (but isn't her POV plainly missing everywhere lately?). I, like you, wish I could see more of it, and as far as I'm concerned, see more of what I think that Oliver brought to her in that sense.

I don't need for their relationship to be romantic, because it goes imo far beyond what most TV writers narrow-mindedly define as so. They are partners, they are among the most important person in each other's lives; since Felicity is one of the "only two who matter",  per Oliver to Roy. Because the Count and countless other moments. As long as this importance is kept, everything is good with me. But oops, it isn't.

So, the problem for me doesn't reside in Oliver/Felicity and the possible, eventual romantic turn of their relationship. The problem, for me, is the writers making Oliver's "written" romantic relationships interfere with the organic order of the show, including the Oliver/Felicity bond -in the most neutral sense of the term.

Either they try to make the latter a cliché will they/won't they (with Isabel as the roadbloack) denaturing it because imo it  doesn't fit them at all.  Either they try to deny the importance of Oliver/Felicity (and Oliver/Diggle, especially as partners on the field, for that matter) and make Oliver all douchy again in order to promote a purely romantic relationship "over" the one he has with Felicity. It's what's happening imo right now with Sara. I think that developping a relationship in parallel with (non-romantic) Oliver/Felicity, and not at the sake of it, would work way better for the love interest in question, especially on the long term...but it makes me wonder if the writers have any faith in any romantic relationship's ability to be more compelling than even a completely platonic Oliver/Felicity relationship; considering that they seem to tone the latter down and limit the interaction between the Arrow and his IT girl to an insignificant minimum.

Well, anyway, I feel that Felicity is currently phased out and I don't like it. And considering that I saw somewhere, per Marc Guggenheim IIRC that many people "will be infuriated" with the season finale re:Felicity (and Oliver?)...I don't know what it means, since there was just that teasing and no spoiler, but I'm not optimistic.

Edited by Happy Harpy

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Speculation about that comment:

Guggenheim said: "We'll be doing something with Oliver and Felicity by the end of the year that will really confound and satisfy some viewers and infuriate others." The options for this audience split, as I see it, are either Comic Book Canon fans vs. Don't Care about Comics Canon, or Olicity vs. Lauriver/Sariver. If it's the first, then the group that will be infuriated is the Comic Book Canon people, obviously. If this is the case, I have a feeling it will have something to do with her parentage. If it's a relationship issue, I could see it going both ways. I could see Oliver taking a step toward Felicity--maybe not romantically quite yet, but establishing his loyalty to her over Laurel or Sara, for example. I could also see something happening to come between them. But (as an Olicity fan), I'm not worried about that. It would be a bummer in the meantime, but I know the show will address Oliver/Felicity at some point, and they know that relationship (not just the romantic aspect) is one of the most important pieces of the show. It won't be back-burnered like this for long.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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Thank you, Carrie_Ann, for the full comment.  I was about to get hooded up if they tried to Joss / fridge our IT girl.  I would prefer if MG was thinking in terms of comics-canon vs. non-comics-canon people rather than shippers, although that could be the one thing more explosive than shipping wars...

I liked that he seemed impressed by her skills, first and foremost, and not being a victim of the Dulcinea effect when it came to her.

HH: I like your point about how Felicity shouldn't be (and isn't) Oliver's reason to be a hero; she's not a goal.  But I do like that she and Diggle help to inspire Oliver to remember his human side in an aspirational way.

In that vein, if Felicity's (and Diggle's) absence/lowered visibility can be seen as part of a downward spiral for Oliver the rest of this season (entirely likely, given that his past - as Slade and Sara - is back to haunt him and draw him away from his present), that could help emphasize their importance to him.

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Carrie-Ann, more speculation

Yes, I think that's the comment I saw. I just hope that M.Guggenheim doesn't have the same definition of "satisfying" as the HIMYM showrunners. The only infuriating thing I could think of was Felicity being Oliver's sister, or her dying to save Oliver's OTL...whichever Lance sister it will be that day.

But I do like that she and Diggle help to inspire Oliver to remember his human side in an aspirational way.

I like it even better when they do so in a confrontational way...because I love Oliver but he still needs a good reality check here and there. And I hope you're right about Diggle and Felicity's importance.

Edited by Happy Harpy
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Happy Harpy: Another possibility for Felicity could be

that she's the THIRD LANCE SISTER. OMG DRAMA.

  I sympathize with all the sad HIMYM fans; I never got into that show, so I was spared.  Hopefully that can be a lesson for all showrunners...

I would actually prefer that we got more Felicity backstory in Season 3 - maybe someone from her past (please not

Dr. Ivo One-Hand

) shows up and we get to develop her more.  Any development now would be drowned out by Slade's awesome Aussieness.

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I keep feeling like they're trying to turn Felicity into a combo version of Moneypenny and Q which isn't at all satisfying.  Also, Sara's chin makes me insane.  I'm sorry actor lady.

Edited by areca

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Zalyn, I was never into that show either but I do sympathize (I still seethe because of Twin Peaks, and it's been 25 bloody years). I'm actually waiting to see if Felicity will play a significant role against the Aussie awesomeness, as she should, before tuning in again.

Edited by Happy Harpy
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Oh, Twin Peaks. So much potential, so much.....second season. 

Speculation on Felicity:

I think Felicity is safe for this season. The network reportedly loves her and Emily Bett-Rickards, and CBS has been using the actress for various cross promotional things - magazines, websites, etc.

I suspect that whatever Guggenheim is talking about, it's probably tied into the other thing he's talked about - that the conversation between Oliver and Felicity in "Heir to the Demon" would be referenced again in the finale.  That conversation focused on two things: Felicity's father, and Oliver promising that she wouldn't lose him.  So my guess is by "infuriate some fans," Guggenheim doesn't mean killing her off, but any of the following:

1. Felicity "leaving" Team Arrow at the end of the season for whatever reason, with the first episode of the third season dealing with that.  She may "leave" because of a fight with Oliver; she may "leave" because she gets kidnapped by Slade or a third season villain.

2. The identity of Felicity's father is revealed! Since all signs point to "villain," possibilities include the Clock King (which I think would be cool), Dr. Ivo (which I think would be boring), Malcolm Merlyn (although this would seem to be a retcon?  Felicity is older than Thea and presumably was conceived while Malcolm's wife was still alive, and they seemed to be happy or am I misremembering this?), Slade (timing seems wrong), Ra's Al Ghul, or some other major Batman/DC villain. 

Or, given the word "infuriate," her father is one of the Green Lanterns.

The only reason I mention the Green Lantern possibility is that Guggenheim loves Green Lantern so much he worked on the movie. Given that movie, I can see a number of people squawking about bringing any of the Green Lanterns into this show.  (Me included.) 

I'm still fanwanking that her father is Carter Hall, but alas that seems to be just me. 

3. Oliver realizes that he loves Felicity and decides not to act on it because of Stupid Reasons, tying into the "you won't lose me," conversation somehow. I can see that pleasing some viewers and infuriating others.

4. Felicity tells Oliver that she loves him, tying into the "you won't lose me," somehow. Tumblr explodes. Before anyone can save the Tumblr servers, Oliver turns her down. Twitter and Tumblr combust. 

4. Oliver and Felicity have A Moment and neither decide to act on it, which....I can't see really infuriating anyone except maybe some diehard Oliver/Felicity shippers,  or viewers that want an end to all of the romance and a focus on the action, but then again Guggenheim has been known to overstate viewer reactions.

 

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I am completely unspoiled, so this is just spec on my part, but do you think they'll use Felicity in crossover episodes for the Flash spinoff? She had a nice rapport with Barry and they seemed to be laying the groundwork.

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I think the original intention was for Felicity to be a bridge to the The Flash universe but with The Flash getting its own pilot episode rather then them doing a back door pilot during an Arrow episode, I have a feeling she won't be needed to be there at the start of the new show but yeah, I'd expect them if the show gets picked up to try to play up the ratings and create excitement with crossover events. The shows just seem made for it.

Speculation with no spoiler knowledge (so not using spoiler tags): I wouldn't be surprised if Felicity ends up "leaving" at the end of season two with the show picking up that thread and going after her at the start of three. The show last year favored the "keep the major players apart and insert a time jump" way to handle the summer break. Maybe they will do the same thing with a different character. Maybe all the characters will scatter.

I'm sure she will be back no matter what happens.

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She's been sorely underused in recent episodes, if you ask me. Not coincidentally, this has been since Sara became a member of Team Arrow, and also not coincidentally, less Felicity Smoak has had a significant impact on my enthusiasm for the show.

She's been the best thing about it since her first scene, if you ask me. And the best thing they ever did on the show was make her a regular. But right now, she feels tangential to everything that's happening, and little more than an afterthought.

Agreed.

IMO, the show needs much, much, much less Lance sisters and more Felicity/Diggle/Thea (but the mature, awesome Thea from this season) etc. and plot/villain development. The writers don't seem to know how to balance story and characters.

Edited by MarDelSol
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Felicity was back to being her awesome self in this episode. Capable, confident, and completely behind Oliver, all the way. It was nice to see that their connection seemed stronger again, after fraying somewhat as the writers focused on Sara.

The moment where Oliver was bickering with Sara over what he should do, and Felicity quite literally stepped into the forefront and told him to go and do whatever he felt he should. Such a strong moment, because Sara was playing the voice of Oliver's doubts, allowing him to stand there and second guess himself while ranting that he had to go and do something. And Felicity just cut through that with a handful of words, and Oliver immediately pulled himself together and went.

Her concern for Thea, someone she barely knows, was evident, and her distress at the whole situation was nicely played by Emily Bett Rickards. Who continues to just get everything she does right.

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I thought it was interesting too, because there have been a few times this season where Oliver has set off half-cocked to take some baddie on, and Felicity has been the one to step in to question him. I think it might have been Cyrus Gold both times I'm thinking of actually. She was worried he was unbeatable and that Oliver was heading to his own death. Presumably, she might have thought the same thing here, but Slade had Thea, so being cautious wasn't the right play.

Similarly, she was never comfortable with Oliver killing people in Season 1, and has helped support his attempts to avoid killing when possible. But I think she has also come to recognize that it's not always possible. And now she's sort of like the keeper of that moral line for Oliver. So in that scene, she was just affirming for him that yes, it is OK to kill Slade. Even if you feel guilty for turning him into what he is. Even if he was your friend once.

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Felicity was great. I love, love, loooove that she was the one to get him to focus and get shit done. I also really appreciated that Diggle and Felicity are portrayed as Oliver's rocks.

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Mostly, though, I just want to see Felicity defined more outside of her relationship with Oliver. I get that the show isn't all about her, but I'd still like to see more glimpses of her non-Oliver life and her interactions with non-Oliver people.

 

Agree. I dislike the Oliver-centricism they have made this character be. She had so much potential and still does,  I dont understand why all that is being wasted on cheerleading Oliver. I want to believe season 3 will be the start of something new for her.  

I know it's a massively unpopular opinion, but I'm kind of over Felicity.  I actually still think the world of Emily Bett-Rickards, but the character is kind of uninteresting to me at this point.  I'm not all that interested to see the Fan Proxy as the Twu Wuv, and even though its being slow played its clear that's where its eventually going.

 

I still like her, thanks mostly in part to Emilly Bett Rickards, she does turn around some of the crap writing for her character, for me. But there is so much you can do for so long, she needs better material to work with.  

Felicity was great. I love, love, loooove that she was the one to get him to focus and get shit done.

I disagree with this, the person who got to him was Roy. Sometimes tough love is necessary, Felicity was cheerleading Oliver to do what he had already decided to do because Roy's words and actions got to stop being a selfish jerk even for a second and made him realise he had made some bad decisions. Still its not like Oliver really gets it, he hasnt got to the root causes of his problems. Lying and keeping secrets. 

You know what would have helped, if Felicity had adviced or even persuaded Oliver to tell Thea the truth about her parentage or the man Slade wilson is, she would likely not have been a pawn in Slade's game. Felicity felt it was necessary to tell Oliver, Moira's secret, yet she doesn't extend the same to Thea. I cant praise her to caring for Thea, seems to me rather she cares all about how Oliver feels, if his sister  was killed/injured. She after all didnt care before if Slade slaughtered Moira and Thea, all that mattered is "Save Oliver".  Its this kind of Oliver-centricism with Felicity that I'm frustrated with her writing. 

Edited by Conell

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Roy spelled out all the stupid crap Oliver has been pulling and yes, as Slade's plan came to fruition, Oliver did finally realize the mistakes he made (in a big part due to what his mother said about being so focused on keeping her children safe she didn't see the harm she was doing to them herself). So between Moira and Roy, (and the crappy day Oliver had) he was now focusing on his past mistakes. But the scene where Felicity cut through all the dithering was something separate and IMO just as important.

Oliver has instructions to go alone to the warehouse if he wants to save Thea. Sara stops him, rightly pointing out that Slade is proabably playing some kind of game. Oliver, obviously very distressed, says he's not going to keep having the same argument, that he can't do nothing and I think we at that moment were seeing Oliver start to fall apart. Part of him has to know that Sara has a point but it's Thea, he HAS to act and yet he was extremely conflicted in trying to justify his actions I think even to himself. Or maybe not justify but believe in what he was about to do and that's where Felicity stepped in.

I think she saw that this was the wrong time to second guess everything. Nothing was going to stop Oliver from going and if there was a chance him going would save Thea's life, they couldn't not send him in. Oliver would never be able to live with himself if he hadn't after. Felicity cut through all the very reasonable but extremely unhelpful doubts, focused and centered Oliver on his mission, and sent him off with her full support and belief and I think that direct, unclouded support empowered Oliver in a profound way. I loved watching him just take down those that stood in his way.

The fact that Thea wasn't there and yes Slade was off planning something bigger doesn't change IMO the strength of Felicity did in cutting straight to the heart of the matter. All the side fighting wasn't helping. Oliver was going to go but he would have left emotionally and mentally clouded. In a handful of words she gave him the clarity he needed.

Later after his world had fallen apart, she and Diggle were there to support Oliver. They didn't prop him up and deny his mistakes, they gave him their trust that they could learn from their mistakes (ok, mostly Oliver's) and their faith that though Slade had won this round, the war was not over. I think Diggle and Felicity really believe in Oliver. Not blindly, but very strongly. They both see the hero in Oliver that even he loses sight of sometimes. That is IMO what makes the core of Team Arrow strong and IMO very special.

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Felicity cut through all the very reasonable but extremely unhelpful doubts, focused and centered Oliver on his mission, and sent him off with her full support and belief and I think that direct, unclouded support empowered Oliver in a profound way. I loved watching him just take down those that stood in his way.

That's how I read it as well. There is also value in saving face - sure, there are times to be unsure and weak with your friends so they can help pick you up.  But there was no way to counter whatever Slade had planned, so the dithering was just going to sap everyone's morale and undermine Oliver as their leader.  Sending him off with support was the best decision for everyone's sanity as well - what else could they have done that would have accomplished something or sprung the trap?

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That's how I read it as well. There is also value in saving face - sure, there are times to be unsure and weak with your friends so they can help pick you up.  But there was no way to counter whatever Slade had planned, so the dithering was just going to sap everyone's morale and undermine Oliver as their leader.  Sending him off with support was the best decision for everyone's sanity as well - what else could they have done that would have accomplished something or sprung the trap?

Me too. Because despite Oliver's insistence that he couldn't just stand there and do nothing, that's exactly what he was doing. He was allowing Sara to argue with him about it, and he was allowing his own doubts about his competency to undermine him. That's how I read that scene, and I think that's how Felicity read Oliver in that moment. She just told him to stop doubting himself, and he listened. Immediately. He didn't say another word, just looked at her with what seemed to be a combination of relief, surprise and perhaps even fear that she was putting him on the spot, and then he went.

Really good moment, between the two characters, that was played very nicely by the actors.

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She just told him to stop doubting himself, and he listened. Immediately. He didn't say another word, just looked at her with what seemed to be a combination of relief, surprise and perhaps even fear that she was putting him on the spot, and then he went.

 

For some reason this made me think of when Oliver wanted to stay at the Arrow Cave and "help" after Clock King blew the circuits on all the computers.  Right before he stupidly went off to that family dinner with Sara. 

It's not like Felicity was offering advice on if it was a good idea if Oliver went or not, but it did seem that Oliver was set on not going until Felicity basically said he'd be in the way.  Until that moment, I thought he was just using the repairs as an excuse to not go with Sara since I think we saw that he clearly didn't think going was a good idea.                                                        

The man can think for himself, but I think he listens extra carefully on tricky, not black and white issues. 

Edited to add:  What I was trying to say was I think had Felicity not been wrapped up in her problems and feeling displaced and incompetent, I think she would have for one, been happy to have Oliver stick around and secondly, hopefully would have advised/backed him up that getting in the middle of a family drama was a bad idea.

Edited by BkWurm1
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In retrospect, though, I'm wondering if that scene was more meant to start showing that Oliver doesn't listen to Sara - even though he does listen to others, mostly but not just Felicity?

Wondering because although it didn't seem to be a huge thing in that particular scene, it seems to keep getting repeated. In that episode, for instance, Oliver doesn't listen to Sara about the party, and initially says no to the party until Felicity tells him to go. Two episodes later, Sara tells him not to push her away. Oliver doesn't listen to her until Laurel tells him not to push people away, and Felicity says not to do this alone. The next episode, Oliver says not to kill Helena, Sara correctly says that he's a major hypocrite, Felicity tells Sara to kick Helena's ass, and Laurel tells Sara not to kill Helena. Sara kicks Helena's ass and but doesn't kill her, but Oliver never does go back on the hypocrite thing - in fact he gets worse with Thea. 

Leading us to this last scene where Oliver listens to Felicity but not Sara.

In other words, I think this scene was not just important to get Oliver out there instead of fighting about what to do next, but fit into something more subtle that the writers have been setting up for several episodes. Or at least maybe - these writers have generally not been big on "subtle." 

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In retrospect, though, I'm wondering if that scene was more meant to start showing that Oliver doesn't listen to Sara - even though he does listen to others, mostly but not just Felicity?

I wonder if Oliver has trust issues with Sara because of their past.  I can't even count how many times listening to or trusting Sara on the island got him into trouble; even if it's not conscious, that could be some baggage at play.

Oliver does seem more likely to consider people he met since returning from the Island (Felicity, Diggle, even Roy* and Helena) as more credible than people he knew before (Laurel, Sara, Queen Mum, Thea). 

* Oliver thinks Roy is an idiot, but he is willing to take what he says at face value since he made him an informant.

(I'll take this to the Sara thread if it goes beyond this post, but I wanted to respond here because it's relevant)

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Am I right in thinking Felicity is the only one who has been consistently straight with Oliver? Never lied or manipulated him, never hid anything from him? If so, it stands to reason he would be more inclined to listen to her.

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