S01.E01: Pilot

[Stats Queen]

On 1/16/2019 at 10:28 AM, kj4ever said:

Well I had high hopes but unfortunately this pilot smashed them back down to Earth.  In full disclosure I am a die hard liberal, and even I was rolling my eyes at the heavy handedness of this show.  I felt battered by the time I was done watching from being hit over the head with so many different issues stuffed into one pilot.

I’m a die hard centrist. I stopped and deleted the episode less than 10 minutes in. The politics were unnecessary, stupid, and annoying - “We lost funding because someone wants to build a wall”. - that’s not how funding government agencies and contractors work.

I hear politics all day every day. I watch entertainment shows like Roswell to be entertained and to not hear about politics.  It doesn’t matter if I agree with the politics views or not, I want escapism.

[tessaray]

1 hour ago, Stats Queen said:

I’m a die hard centrist. I stopped and deleted the episode less than 10 minutes in. The politics were unnecessary, stupid, and annoying - “We lost funding because someone wants to build a wall”. - that’s not how funding government agencies and contractors work.

I hear politics all day every day. I watch entertainment shows like Roswell to be entertained and to not hear about politics.  It doesn’t matter if I agree with the politics views or not, I want escapism.

That bugged me too but it actually kind of makes sense with the shutdown.  Still, there's no way they could have known in advance, so yeah - dumb, cringe-y line. 

We were told from the beginning that immigration is going to be an ongoing theme for the show.  (They couldn't resist the easy parallels.) With the way things are in the SW, they don't need to be heavy handed with it, though. Just show how it is and leave the audience to work out for themselves how they feel.   

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Stats Queen said:

I stopped and deleted the episode less than 10 minutes in. The politics were unnecessary, stupid, and annoying - “We lost funding because someone wants to build a wall”. - that’s not how funding government agencies and contractors work.

FWIW, I only noticed one other cringey line by an extra-terrestrial racist.
The wall line would've worked if friend Maria (not scientist, and especially OG Maria) had snarkily asked Liz if that's why she was back.

[Stats Queen]

2 hours ago, tessaray said:

 

4 hours ago, Stats Queen said:

I’m a die hard centrist. I stopped and deleted the episode less than 10 minutes in. The politics were unnecessary, stupid, and annoying - “We lost funding because someone wants to build a wall”. - that’s not how funding government agencies and contractors work.

I hear politics all day every day. I watch entertainment shows like Roswell to be entertained and to not hear about politics.  It doesn’t matter if I agree with the politics views or not, I want escapism.

That bugged me too but it actually kind of makes sense with the shutdown.  Still, there's no way they could have known in advance, so yeah - dumb, cringe-y line. 

We were told from the beginning that immigration is going to be an ongoing theme for the show.  (They couldn't resist the easy parallels.) With the way things are in the SW, they don't need to be heavy handed with it, though. Just show how it is and leave the audience to work out for themselves how they feel.   

 

You said it better - Just show how it is and leave the audience to work for for themselves how they feel. If they had done that, I wouldn’t have minded. 

[Shorty186]

I might have been the only person who wanted Alex and Isobel together in the original, so I'm disappointed that he's gay and she's married.

 

How did Max, Isobel and Michael stumble onto the magical properties of nail polish remover? That wasn't something I ever tried to drink as a child.

 

I feel like Michael Trevino is going to be sidelined on this show too.

[Jacks-Son]

Alex and Izzy was a slightly better coupling than Izzy and Jesse or worse, Ward. I just didn’t see Izzy choosing Alex voluntarily and not because she was without a great love. Max/Liz, Michael/Maria, yes. Izzy/Michael, Izzy/Alex, Izzy/Jesse, Izzy/Ward, No!

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, Shorty186 said:

I might have been the only person who wanted Alex and Isobel together in the original, so I'm disappointed that he's gay and she's married.

No, I wanted that too, and was really annoyed that

Spoiler

Tess killed Alex

but, then again, "I Married An Alien" (the Bewitched spoof episode) is an all-time favorite--in part because my youngest daughter and I used to watch it together and have a mother-daughter bonding time with snacks.

[phoenics]

6 hours ago, Stats Queen said:

You said it better - Just show how it is and leave the audience to work for for themselves how they feel. If they had done that, I wouldn’t have minded. 

I'm really hoping the writing improves in that vein - I've been rewatching OGRoswell and one thing it really got right was in how you could overhear them talking about being outsiders and alienated, and you could almost interchange that conversation with alien talk... and at times the show deliberately conflated the two - but it was so subtle that you were left with a "oooohhhh what an interesting connection!".

To be honest, I didn't see anything bad about the "wall" line - I laughed - but the radio guy was just so over the top that it just didn't work.  Why would extra terrestrial aliens want our jobs?  They could have written that so much better.

[phoenics]

On 1/19/2019 at 12:13 AM, Kareny said:

I'm watching this a second time. God help me. Twenty years later, why do these horny, paranoid aliens still get to me so much? 

We need to be real about the fact that OG Roswell had one good season, and a lot of ups and downs afterwards. I think this reboot has a lot of potential. Even with the changes, a lot of things feel familiar, the Max/Liz connection feels even deeper and higher stakes, and Max is the same old asshole he always was.  Even more so now that he has a big(ger), deep(er) dark(er) secret. 

Could the "voices" that Rosa and Mama Ortecho heard be alien-related? That would definitely elevate the stakes. 

Another bit that I think has flown under the radar is when Liz comments about Max wanting to be a writer and he looks surprised - "You remember that?" It seems like a throwaway, but could be significant given her memory wipe and the clues that she and Max had a closer relationship before the memory wipe.

Like others have said, this could have been a fanfic back in the OG Roswell days, but it's just different enough, and the actors and writing seem skilled enough, that it justifies the reboot. There better be enough of an audience to sustain this on the CW now, because I'm dying to know where they're going with it. The original had wonderful characters, but abysmal plotting - let's be real - and so far this one feels like higher quality overall, at least to start out with.

Dare I say they might even be able to do a better job with the source material? I hope I'm right.

When the OGRoswell aired, I remember being upset that they didn't make the sheriff be connected to the super secret alien hunter organization.  And then the show went in a different direction and I ended up liking that a ton - so much so that when this new version aired - I was put off by the super secret alien hunter organization, lol.

My point is that it's good that the show is trying to be different from the original show.  If it does it well and owns it, I'll like it just like I liked what OGRoswell did.

I love that it's using much more of the mythology from the books - the alien ship debris pieces Michael had - in the books, Max and Michael used to trawl the desert looking for ship debris and anything they could find.  They found the pods on one of their journeys - someone moved them to the podcave/chamber - I wonder who moved them to the cave on the new show.

Another thing I'm liking is the Rosa thing - it struck me as odd that she accepted the truth so well - that I think she's going to have second thoughts when she finds out what happened to Rosa.

And about the part you bolded:  that's a really good catch and I think you're right.  It definitely seems like Liz and Max were much closer than the pilot makes them seem... 

Edited January 20, 2019 by phoenics

[methodwriter85]

I rewatched the OG pilot and it really was pretty different. I don't really feel like I'm watching an imitation here at all. The OG pilot was about a young girl from an ordinary life discovering something amazing. This pilot is about a woman coming to terms with a painful past she left behind as well as exploring a past crush she had. I also like that this Liz is coming from the perspective of what it's like to be pushing 30, dealing with a major setback, and having to go back to a place that brings back a lot of painful memories, yet also some really good ones.

[ellieart]

On 1/16/2019 at 11:12 PM, Emily Thrace said:

Also Michael Trevino (Kyle) is Mexican American like Kyle is supposed to be. Tyler Blackburn (Alex)  has partial Native American heritage. Which as a Native American myself I figured out just by looking at them. Also Blackburn used a Native American long ou in his first scene. It would be interesting for them to use that aspect of the actors background on the show. Especially if the show uses the Native American aspects of the book. Thats actually the one thing that worries me about them borrowing from the books more. The show did alright by us but the books not so much.

My memory of the books might be fuzzy, but I honestly don't recall Kyle OR Maria (as I've seen a lot of people elsewhere claiming otherwise) being stated as any specific ethnicity.  The Maria DeLuca in the OG show was Latina, though never explicitly stated outside of her speaking Spanish in the pilot, was written and intended that way because Majandra Delfino is Latina.  The Valenti's on the other hand, their last name alone doesn't indicate anything (I know a Valenti family and they are unmistakably of Italian origin).  So please correct me if I'm wrong!  I've been seeing so much regarding the background of certain characters and I haven't had time to go back and read the books recently to confirm.

Edited January 20, 2019 by ellieart

[Scarlett45]

On 1/16/2019 at 3:57 PM, Jenniferbug said:

I hope we get a little more backstory on why Michael is such a mess and was in foster care. The original show made it clear he hid and so wasn't found at the same time as Max and Isabel, but here they were all found together so strange that 2 would be adopted together but a 3rd wouldn't find a permanent home. 

I was wondering about this too. 

[phoenics]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I was wondering about this too. 

Me three - in the books Michael came out of his pod early, and then left the cave when he was thirsty and hungry.  Then he got picked up by a local rancher and ended up in foster care.  Easy explanation for why there were separated.

On the new tv show though,

it looks like the Evans' could have adopted all three of them, but only took Max and Isabel. So this Michael has huge abandonment issues on top of it all and probably really resents Max and Isabel.

Edited January 20, 2019 by phoenics

[Emily Thrace]

12 hours ago, ellieart said:

My memory of the books might be fuzzy, but I honestly don't recall Kyle OR Maria (as I've seen a lot of people elsewhere claiming otherwise) being stated as any specific ethnicity.  The Maria DeLuca in the OG show was Latina, though never explicitly stated outside of her speaking Spanish in the pilot, was written and intended that way because Majandra Delfino is Latina.  The Valenti's on the other hand, their last name alone doesn't indicate anything (I know a Valenti family and they are unmistakably of Italian origin).  So please correct me if I'm wrong!  I've been seeing so much regarding the background of certain characters and I haven't had time to go back and read the books recently to confirm.

Maria was latina in the books and they vaguely hinted at it on the show. On the OG show the Valenti's were white. The OG show never specified if the name was Latino or Italian in origin. Given the casting on the new show the Valenti's are Hispanic. I wonder if in this show the Valenti's are supposed to represent the descendents of the original Spanish settlers.  A few reviews mention that there's tensions between them and the new wave of immigrants. A couple of reviews mentioned the show might get into that.

[ellieart]

1 hour ago, Emily Thrace said:

Maria was latina in the books and they vaguely hinted at it on the show. On the OG show the Valenti's were white. The OG show never specified if the name was Latino or Italian in origin. Given the casting on the new show the Valenti's are Hispanic. I wonder if in this show the Valenti's are supposed to represent the descendents of the original Spanish settlers.  A few reviews mention that there's tensions between them and the new wave of immigrants. A couple of reviews mentioned the show might get into that.

On this show, the tensions allude to the fact that the Valentis came here legally vs. The Ortechos who are undocumented. This was stated by the showrunner, so I'm guessing that's what some of the reviews were talking about.

[jacksgirl]

The OGRoswell pilot was one of the best shows I ever saw. Loved the chemistry between Max and Liz. I'm in for this one too, hopefully they can get a full season of good stories.

[Keywestclubkid]

On 1/15/2019 at 10:52 PM, Primal Slayer said:

Alex/Michael seemed rushed and just a way to let the audience know "we have gay characters!" 

 

Everyone else’s love interest were established why should his have been left out just because it happens to be with a dude? They didn’t treat it any differently then the others.  Izzy and her man  got screen time max and Liz obviously so why should his not have been established? I think it had enough familiarness to it but still did enough changes to make it feel somewhat fresh. For a 1st episode it did feel a little heavy handed especially the illegal alien/alien parallel they kept throwing out but I’ll definitely stick with it and see where it goes 

Edited January 21, 2019 by Keywestclubkid

[Emily Thrace]

On 2019-01-19 at 6:40 PM, Shorty186 said:

I might have been the only person who wanted Alex and Isobel together in the original, so I'm disappointed that he's gay and she's married.

 

How did Max, Isobel and Michael stumble onto the magical properties of nail polish remover? That wasn't something I ever tried to drink as a child.

Yeah I wonder if we might see a bisexual love triangle in the future given how popular Michael and Maria were.  Alex was never disliked but he was never really popular either. Although I suppose the new fans will dictate that more than anything. Also this version seems rather passive and angsty rather than the lovable goofball of the original series. I also feel the closest case story is a little dated. I could see not being out to your family but hiding from your closest friends seems out of place even in 1997. Especially for an iconoclast like Michael. It could be a solid story it could also be tedious and ridiculous. (I also find it amusing at how close it is to Brendan Fehr's story on Night Shift)

I think Michael being placed with Evans family but ending up removed could be done to several reasons. Sometimes if a kid is acting out or running away habitually the social worker will decide to remove them from the situation on their on. Or it could have been he acted out in an initial placement and wasn't available to adopt when the Evan's took in Max and Isobel. It could also be that he was placed with the Evanses and acted out so they essentially gave him back. The way Max said it makes me think there is more to the story there.

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Everyone else’s love interest were established why should his have been left out just because it happens to be with a dude? They didn’t treat it any differently then the others.  Izzy and her man  got screen time max and Liz obviously so why should his not have been established? I think it had enough familiarness to it but still did enough changes to make it feel somewhat fresh. For a 1st episode it did feel a little heavy handed especially the illegal alien/alien parallel they kept throwing out but I’ll definitely stick with it and see where it goes 

Alex/Michael didnt feel natural imo at least not with the writing, maybe its because I was expecting Michael/Maria. But I didnt even realize that Izzys guy was her husband, I just thought it was some random hookup but he also isnt a big character. 

[methodwriter85]

Who says that Michael is closeted, though? Alex seems to be, but he's written as being from a very conservative family and totally repressed. Micheal could be openly bisexual, but he's just with women more because they tend to be the ones that go for him.

3 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

(I also find it amusing at how close it is to Brendan Fehr's story on Night Shift)

I suffered through Brendan Fehr's horrible Vampire movie from 2001 purely for the homoerotic undertones. He was also in a weird movie where he played a drug addicted hustler who had male clients.

[phoenics]

On 1/20/2019 at 5:03 PM, ellieart said:

On this show, the tensions allude to the fact that the Valentis came here legally vs. The Ortechos who are undocumented. This was stated by the showrunner, so I'm guessing that's what some of the reviews were talking about.

If so, then I think I figured out why everyone is treating Liz and her family badly... If you look at it like "legal" immigrants or natural born citizens might, 2 people are dead because the child of an undocumented person caused the death of two people.  That is, if the town in general knows that Liz's dad is undocumented.  It feels like it's something that would be an open secret because Liz and her dad were discussing it kinda out in the open in the Crashdown.

So, looking at it that way - I can totally see how unreasonable/emotional/grief-stricken-angry people would be looking at it like "that family shouldn't even be here - if they weren't, those other 2 people would still be alive..."  Still unfair to blame them, but I can see how a lynch-mob mentality probably arose from all of this... 

I think future episodes will be really interesting - though it's kinda weird/sad to see Liz and her family be so hated in Roswell.

Also - if the show would have left the weird radio alien guy out of things - or had him take a spiel more like Elsevan DuPris from the books rather than sticking anti-immigrant rightwing rage in his mouth, the whole immigrant angle wouldn't have felt so forced.  Honestly - just the part with the wall quip, Liz getting the weird looks from the town and the anger Rosa's accident would have been enough on it's own.  Then in the next episode you could really dig into exactly where and why the town anger was coming from (since them being mad at Liz made little to no sense without the legal vs undocumented part explained).

[Myrrhine]

On 1/16/2019 at 3:26 PM, methodwriter85 said:

I kept thinking they need to shave his head. Otherwise, he just looks too much like Max.

Yes! 

And thank you truthaboutluv for answering my question about Max explaining to Liz that they didn't remember anything or know anything when they came out of the pods. I guess I was distracted during that scene. 

 

On 1/17/2019 at 10:59 AM, kj4ever said:

I'm thinking Rosa's death had something to do with the aliens.  It seemed like Isabelle was adamant about not doing that anymore, so my train of thought went to the fact that maybe Rosa wasn't mentally ill at all and the aliens accidentally damaged her. 

I thought maybe something alien-y happened that resulted in Rosa's death, and then they mind-wiped Liz so that she wouldn't remember that the pod squad (or other aliens) caused Rosa's death.

On 1/16/2019 at 5:10 PM, shapeshifter said:

II'm here  heh.  (My screen name has been shapeshifter since the FanForum Roswell board in the late 90s.)

I was on fanforum back in the day, under the same sn too. I was mostly in the CHADs and Polar threads as I recall. 

[ParadoxLost]

On 1/19/2019 at 7:48 PM, Jacks-Son said:

Alex and Izzy was a slightly better coupling than Izzy and Jesse or worse, Ward. I just didn’t see Izzy choosing Alex voluntarily and not because she was without a great love. Max/Liz, Michael/Maria, yes. Izzy/Michael, Izzy/Alex, Izzy/Jesse, Izzy/Ward, No!

Holy crap.  I just now came to realize KH was in two Alex and Izzy ships.  I did seriously compartmentalize my Roswell PTSD to cope with Grey's Anatomy.

[Quickbeam]

I loved the original series, never read the books ...and enjoyed the pilot.

 

I never liked Katherine Heigl but it really pissed me off when she would diss the show. 

[bettername2come]

So I just watched the full episode. I think new Max and Liz have chemistry. I liked him refusing to kiss her because she was feeling what he was feeling for her. I'm hoping Michael's bisexual so I can get my Michael/Maria ship back. New Maria is cute and she and Liz had good potential. I genuinely think this is Michael Trevino's best work although that could just be my Tyler Lockwood hate/boredom/fatigue coming through. I read the original books and watched the OG series. Seeing that this is allegedly going to follow the books more, I'm now wondering about stupid plot lines they'll pull from there. We don't have a comparison thread, do we?

I wanted to see Max and Isabel's parents and Izzy's new husband. Those family bonds that still have that secret. And I kind of like that Michael, Isabel and Max were all found together instead of separately like in the originals. It always bugged me that they never made a connection and thought they were left in the desert by the same people and/or that all three were siblings. 

I downloaded the song from the end and the Counting Crows song, so at least I like their musical selection. Overall, the show's not as good as the OG Roswell pilot, but I like it way more than the Charmed remake so far. 

Five bucks says Liz's mom's mental illness is actually alien related. I also feel like Maria's palm-reading will lead to her having actual psychic powers. I feel like there's a Bonnie thing happening. Or maybe she's a hybrid.

[tessaray]

1 hour ago, bettername2come said:

So I just watched the full episode. I think new Max and Liz have chemistry. I liked him refusing to kiss her because she was feeling what he was feeling for her. I'm hoping Michael's bisexual so I can get my Michael/Maria ship back. New Maria is cute and she and Liz had good potential. I genuinely think this is Michael Trevino's best work although that could just be my Tyler Lockwood hate/boredom/fatigue coming through. I read the original books and watched the OG series. Seeing that this is allegedly going to follow the books more, I'm now wondering about stupid plot lines they'll pull from there. We don't have a comparison thread, do we?

We do now.  Thanks for reminding me to create one.

[bettername2come]

1 hour ago, tessaray said:

We do now.  Thanks for reminding me to create one.

Thank you! I have many thoughts.

[Enero]

On 1/15/2019 at 9:49 PM, Melina22 said:

I'm only a few minutes in, but I was such a big fan of the original show that it's hard to accept the new cast. So far I don't find any of them particularly interesting or charismatic. But I'm keeping an open mind. I'll give it at least 2 or 3 episodes to change my mind. 

I could not even give this 2-3 episodes. I could barely give it 15 minutes. This was awful. The acting. The dialogue...none of the characters have chemistry. Liz bordered on abrasive, which I could understand considering what happened with her sister and how her family is treated in the town, but it just didn't work for me.

The reason why the original Roswell immediately captured my attention was because of the soulful, smoldering chemistry between Appleby and Behr, not to mention that unforgettable healing scene as Sarah McLachlan played in the background. Mason and Parsons don't even have a smidgen of chemistry and the healing scene was forgettable at best. I won't be wasting anymore time on this poor excuse for a reboot. 

[SimoneS]

I watched the pilot. It is okay, but from his days on GH, I have never liked as Nathan Parsons as an actor. One thing that surprised me about the cast is how old they are for a CW show. They are all in their late 20s. If the show lasts five years, they will be in their thirties. Maybe the CW's audience is growing up. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by SimoneS

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, SimoneS said:

One thing that surprised me about the cast is how old they are for a CW show. They are all in their late 20s. If the show lasts five years, they will be in their thirties. Maybe the CW's audience is growing up. 

That's an interesting consideration. Maybe this reboot is seen as a bridge between the target audience ages.

[Cristofle]

When I was watching the latter part of the pilot to verify Michael's dialogue re: mindwarping Liz, I noticed something I thought this show did well - showing WHY Little Liz appealed to Little Max so much. In the OG show, he was just immediately entranced by her, but in this show, it seems she actually went out of her way to befriend him (sharing her music with him, making silly faces at him to get him to lighten up). For someone as painfully shy as Max has always been written to be, it would definitely make sense, why that would draw him to her. 

[Anela]

I watched this the other night, when I couldn't sleep, and thought it was okay. I've just found the original online, and can't believe they lifted the whole beginning from it. I'd only seen one or two episodes when I was younger (I was in their target age group at the time, but wasn't watching so much TV). Damn, it's making me feel nostalgic, just for that time period. I remember when it was cancelled, and fans were in the news for sending bottles of tabasco sauce to the network. How has it been twenty years since the first one premiered?? 

[AudienceofOne]

On 1/16/2019 at 11:22 PM, Sakura12 said:

It's the acting that is pulling me out of this show. They are so dull. I would say it's the pilot so maybe they will get better, but I've seen the actor who plays Max in other things and he has not improved. So I'm not holding my breath on that one. 

I'm a billion years late but wth, it was a rainy weekend here and I decided to pick this up. Honestly Max is badly miscast and his acting is TERRIBLE. In retrospect Jason Behr's interpretation of the character wasn't as bad as I thought it was at the time. However wooden he was at times, to me I still believed he was this angsty outsider struggling with powers outside of his control and trying to reconcile his feelings for Liz with the demands of keeping everyone safe.  This Max just does not work for me at all.

I really like what they did with Alex and Michael but couldn't work out who Maria was supposed to be at all at first. 

[AudienceofOne]

On 1/21/2019 at 12:30 PM, Keywestclubkid said:

Everyone else’s love interest were established why should his have been left out just because it happens to be with a dude?

I thought they did a good job of showing that these two haven't seen each for a while but still cannot keep their hands off each other. But the whole thing was rushed in multiple places meaning that it's not entirely why people did a lot of things. 

[LeGrandElephant]

On 1/16/2019 at 6:35 AM, Whimsy said:

The original show had iconic music that people are still lamenting to this day wasn't carried over to the DVDs

Does Hulu have the original music??

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

Does Hulu have the original music??

No. The rights were too expensive. 

[LeGrandElephant]

On 12/18/2020 at 2:33 PM, shapeshifter said:

No. The rights were too expensive. 

Do rights to the music not get included with rights to a show that used it? I started watching the old Roswell on Hulu and it has the theme song I remember and various other songs I remmeber from the 90s, but I can’t remmeber well enough to know if they’re the same songs. There was only one other song I really truly remember, which is the one from the scene where time travel max is dancing with Liz and disappears - so I’ll have to find that episode to see if it has the song I remember. 
 

I’m also watching the new Roswell in parallel, a few years late 😉

[ellieart]

22 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

Do rights to the music not get included with rights to a show that used it? I started watching the old Roswell on Hulu and it has the theme song I remember and various other songs I remmeber from the 90s, but I can’t remmeber well enough to know if they’re the same songs. There was only one other song I really truly remember, which is the one from the scene where time travel max is dancing with Liz and disappears - so I’ll have to find that episode to see if it has the song I remember. 
 

I’m also watching the new Roswell in parallel, a few years late 😉

Hulu doesn't have the original music, no streaming service does unfortunately.  The only time you'll ever see the episodes with the original music is if they show it on tv somewhere (or you download them from the Roswell Restoration Project 😉).  But Jason Katims DID pay the licensing fees to keep certain songs...like Here With Me and I Shall Believe which is the one you mentioned.  The music was changed for the DVD release because keeping all of the original songs would have made the DVDs way too expensive so they had to change almost all of them, in order to keep the cost down.  Music rights, especially at that time, didn't encompass all markets.  So you had to get the rights for television airings and then again for DVD, and had streaming existed...again for that.  Now I believe producers/productions can negotiate everything at once.