Last Tango In Halifax - General Discussion

[proserpina65]

23 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

meh, I thought Caroline yielded to Kate's desire to be mother with the suggestion that Kate would be doing the heavy lifting and was the one whose career would consequently be placed on the back burner (very conventional). 

So?  Caroline didn't particularly want more children so why should she have put her career on the backburner instead?

Edited December 27, 2017 by proserpina65
wrong episode

[SusanSunflower]

I merely meant that Kate wanted a baby and she got to have a baby (much as one might be allowed a pet) with the understanding she'd be doing the heavy lifting ... as the birth mother (maternity leave and time spent getting ready to go back to work) as well as the lower wage earner, it made sense.  It was conventional in the dynamics of the Kate + Caroline (IMHO) reinforcing Caroline as the dominant partner.   It was going to be Kate's baby ... before unforeseen tragedy.  It wasn't some vast "generosity" of Caroline's since Kate's baby lust might well otherwise derail the relationship (as is seems to continue to do just as much in 2017 as it did in 1960). 

This was reinforced again in the cute-meet with Olga where Caroline mentioned how very expensive the car Olga had just crashed into was ....  Caroline's instinct is to pull rank ... something common enough in bosses and take charge types, but something that compounded with "class differences" (even if Olga's parents were posh-but-poor) can strain even loving relationships... and poking class differences used to be one of the highlights of this show ... particularly Caroline v. Gillian and the Cold Comfort Farm crowd.  Nice that Alan cleans up so well and offers ne'er a complaint to be criticized for, living with Celia in Caroline's home. 

eta:  Also to-be-explored, and related to baby-lust, etc. -- with Olga as was not possible with Kate, are the ramifications of being involved with someone quite a bit younger than yourself.  Olga and Kate both appear to be likely 10 years younger.  

Edited December 28, 2017 by SusanSunflower

[proserpina65]

Quote

I merely meant that Kate wanted a baby and she got to have a baby (much as one might be allowed a pet) with the understanding she'd be doing the heavy lifting ... as the birth mother (maternity leave and time spent getting ready to go back to work) as well as the lower wage earner, it made sense.  It was conventional in the dynamics of the Kate + Caroline (IMHO) reinforcing Caroline as the dominant partner.   It was going to be Kate's baby ... before unforeseen tragedy.  It wasn't some vast "generosity" of Caroline's since Kate's baby lust might well otherwise derail the relationship (as is seems to continue to do just as much in 2017 as it did in 1960). 

It's nothing like being allowed to have a pet.  Kate wanted a baby and Kate was having a baby whether or not she was with Caroline, which is fine because it was her life and her decision.  Kate broke up with Caroline over having the baby; if Caroline hadn't compromised, they wouldn't have been together.  But that was previous seasons anyway and so not really relevant to this episode.  And we're clearly not going to agree on Caroline's character anyway.

[Possum]

I was disappointed in this Christmas Special, but then, I've been falling out of love with this series slowly with each new season.  My husband gave up on it completely after seeing part 1 of this Christmas Special.  I saw part 2 last night, and that will probably be my last tango in Halifax.  These two episodes were OK but held none of the charm of the early series.  Even the actors looked bored.  

[biakbiak]

The stove in Caroline's fixxer up is my dream stove and costs a gazillion dollars.

Edited January 2, 2018 by biakbiak

[SusanSunflower]

Yes, and why would Caroline buy a house with only two usable bedrooms (one, per Celia, quite small and damp)?  Were there unusable bedrooms that could be made usable?  And why would a 2 bedroom house have that absolutely enormous gorgeous kitchen? and the outbuilding/garage/stable? Gillian's house which looks to be around the same size appears to have around 4 bedrooms (at least) ... not to mention, why was Caroline (who had just moved in and was about to start a new job) hosting Christmas as-always, the house transformed into Martha Stewart Christmas approved? 

[SusanSunflower]

Sarah Lancashire has a new show, Kiri, premiered to excellent reviews 01/17/2018 .... plays a social worker, sounds like heavy dramatic role. 

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/903324/Kiri-episode-1-review-Sarah-Lancashire-Happy-Valley

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I requested a new forum for Kiri, so come over and discuss the show here!

[AZChristian]

Hi - We just watched the first episode last night (going from one Netflix series to another since December).  I like to read ahead on what to watch for because I have ADHD and tend to miss a lot while watching . . . while playing Candy Crush . . . or crocheting.  Did I mention I have ADHD?  LOL.

Anyway, the posts above amused me, because of the references to Caroline as Catherine.  She was "Catherine" in Happy Valley.  Now she's Caroline.

I have joked for years that there are only about 12 actors in all of the UK . . . and they're all in every movie or TV series.  Easy mistake to make.

[zoey1996]

I recorded and watched the Christmas special, and enjoyed so much I looked for the series.  Delighted to find it on Netflix, so watched this one yesterday.  Overall, really liked it.  Celia’s car chase was hilarious, and also liked the meeting of the two families.  Awkward!

Edited February 26, 2018 by zoey1996

[AZChristian]

On 1/2/2018 at 6:45 AM, SusanSunflower said:

Yes, and why would Caroline buy a house with only two usable bedrooms (one, per Celia, quite small and damp)?  Were there unusable bedrooms that could be made usable?  And why would a 2 bedroom house have that absolutely enormous gorgeous kitchen? and the outbuilding/garage/stable? Gillian's house which looks to be around the same size appears to have around 4 bedrooms (at least) ... not to mention, why was Caroline (who had just moved in and was about to start a new job) hosting Christmas as-always, the house transformed into Martha Stewart Christmas approved? 

I finally got the Christmas episodes on DVD from the library, as they weren't available on Netflix . . . and I didn't get addicted to this show until after the sessions would have aired on PBS (if our local station even carried it).

I got the sense that there were two large bedrooms, and other bedrooms as well, but two of them were probably designated for the sons.  The issue seemed to be that the only bedrooms that weren't damp were Caroline's and the tiny one at the end of the hall.  She didn't say there weren't other rooms . . . it just seemed that none of them were available.

[AZChristian]

Watched both Christmas episodes last night.  As the credits were rolling, I was yelling at the TV . . . "Wait a minute.  Why doesn't our Gillian get a happy ending?"  Please, Robbie, come back.

All things considered, I wish I had skipped both Christmas episodes.

[Pallas]

On 12/29/2016 at 2:48 PM, GinnyMars said:

I thought that final scene made it look quite like a series finale though. I hope that's not it! I want to go back to Halifax soon.

I suspect Sally Wainwright does too, and that the Christmas Special was designed to serve as a series finale only if need be. At the same time, she may feel there's not that much more story to tell about Alan and Celia -- in the form of romantic comedy, anyway. While Gillian and Caroline can be imagined as having put the worst of their ambivalence behind them, accepted themselves for who and where they are, and headed out into mature-adult adventures of their own. 

[Stella]

On 12/15/2017 at 7:07 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Hmmm, you know things are out of whack when Celia, the pettiest grudge holder on the show, is being the voice of reason and telling Alan to get over it.

LOL but isn't her motive purely to get Alan to accept the ticket upgrade? At first like you suggest I thought wow, Celia had character growth!? But then the self-interest came out. She drove me crazy to the point of TV yelling. Sorry for posting so late and no-one is around here anyway, but I just re-watched the series so I could remember what was going on before watching the final 2 episodes.

[Stella]

On 3/2/2018 at 9:56 AM, AZChristian said:

Watched both Christmas episodes last night.  As the credits were rolling, I was yelling at the TV . . . "Wait a minute.  Why doesn't our Gillian get a happy ending?"  Please, Robbie, come back.

Gillian has so many demons that perhaps it's impossible. I believe she wants to face consequences for her act and her future looks very uncertain with Robbie out of the picture. I could imagine her unravelling completely if the series did continue. Which I guess it is not going to.  And personally I don't think I could stand watching another season of Celia.

I did like the show quite a bit and certainly the best aspect was the merging family stories. All the acting was top notch and most of the storylines were well done. But the core "love" story was fairly annoying to me. I'm all for complex characters but  Celia's self-aborption and victim mentality was maddening. 

[Valny]

I'm in here trying not to read any posts since I haven't seen the two parter Christmas special yet, but I just noticed those two eps are on Netflix now. Have they been there for a while?  because I didn't notice. I know they ran on the PBS streaming site, but I only watched a tiny bit of one,and didn't return fast enough to finish and then they took them off, so I've been waiting for Netflix to get them.

[Quilt Fairy]

3 hours ago, Valny said:

I just noticed those two eps are on Netflix now. Have they been there for a while?

Nope, they just popped up in the last few days.

[AZChristian]

They haven't been on Netflix for long.  I actually got the DVDs from the library to see the last two episodes, and then they showed up (eventually) on Netflix.

[Brookside]

On 4/5/2018 at 8:59 AM, Stella said:

LOL but isn't her motive purely to get Alan to accept the ticket upgrade? At first like you suggest I thought wow, Celia had character growth!? But then the self-interest came out. She drove me crazy to the point of TV yelling. Sorry for posting so late and no-one is around here anyway, but I just re-watched the series so I could remember what was going on before watching the final 2 episodes.

That's okay, I'm even later, and don't even have anything to say!

[7-Zark-7]

Why does anyone sleep with John? In every episode he looks like a moving pile of dirty laundry.

[lidarose9]

Does anybody know if they plan to do more with this show? I miss the characters and want to know what happens next!

[Valny]

As far as I know, there are no plans for another season since the write/creator has a busy schedule. But who knows, fingers crossed she can someday make the time. Ii think most of the cast are all for it. But these actors aren't getting any younger.

[Blakeston]

I've never seen the stuff with Eddie's death as being a retcon. We got more and more new information about his death as the show went on, and we learned that certain characters hadn't been entirely honest in their descriptions of it, but the writer never violated continuity. I always saw it as a mystery.

Even in season one, I questioned whether the account we heard of Eddie's death was accurate. Robbie made a pretty good case for why he thought Gillian murdered him. And when Gillian told Raff that it was a suicide, it seemed like she was holding something back.

We never heard Alan question whether it was really suicide until season two, but when he told Celia about it in season one, he seemed to be holding something back himself.

Alan being extremely bitter about Eddie's death seemed pretty out of the blue. But I could see that being something he'd been repressing for a while, and then once Gillian started pissing him off in other ways (like telling them off at their wedding), the bitterness came out.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Blakeston

[Valny]

Some greats news!

[Valny]

On 11/5/2018 at 2:55 PM, lidarose9 said:

Does anybody know if they plan to do more with this show? I miss the characters and want to know what happens next!

Great news!!  Season five is already on in the UK! Here is the trailer.   Can't wait until PBS will get to air it here in the US.
Here is a little synopsis that I found:
"Season five of The Last Tango in Halifax will see Celia (Anne Reid) and Alan (Derek Jacobi) face off against the seven-year itch. Alan attempts to keep himself busy by getting a job at the local supermarket, but Celia isn’t keen on spending so much time alone. Meanwhile, Gillian and Caroline have their own (slightly less serious) issues to contend with."

Edited March 8, 2020 by Valny

[AuntiePam]

I just discovered this show and am on the second episode.  I'm only posting in case anyone has questions about earlier seasons/episodes that I might be able to answer as I watch.  Easier than going back and re-watching, maybe.  ??

Derek Jacobi says more with his eyes than most actors do with their mouths.  I just love him.  Looking forward to watching Alan and Celia develop their relationship.  So far, I like everyone except John.  What a twat.

[kirklandia]

On 4/20/2020 at 2:50 PM, AuntiePam said:

I just discovered this show and am on the second episode.  I'm only posting in case anyone has questions about earlier seasons/episodes that I might be able to answer as I watch.

I discovered it a few weeks ago and have just finished all the episodes on Netflix (strictly disciplined, did not binge!).

I made the mistake of looking at this thread early on and encountered a major spoiler, realized  it is not organized by episode.  Just finished reviewing all the commentary now that it is safe.  
There were two plot threads that seemed quite unrealistic to me, as an American educator.  One - a school administrator having a sexual relationship with a staff member, no official repercussions. The other - two students pretending to shoot up their classroom - fake weapons and loud bangs, very mild repercussions.  Different time, different place?  Wouldn't fly here, or now.

[Gizkok]

PBS is now running series 1 again and I am seeing there is either so much more or I have forgotten a lot!  Why was Alan so horrified that Celia reads the Daily Mail?

[ThePurpleArcher]

2 hours ago, Gizkok said:

PBS is now running series 1 again and I am seeing there is either so much more or I have forgotten a lot!  Why was Alan so horrified that Celia reads the Daily Mail?

I believe because the DM is a conservative newspaper, and he's a liberal. So they have very different political views. I think she came across to him as less than conservative, IIRC.

[WatchrTina]

I'm binge-watching this now and I have not read this board.  I will do so after the binge is done.  But can I just say OH MY GOD CAN NO ONE KEEP A DAMN SECRET!?

Admittedly this pair of families has more toxic secrets than your average pair of families but that's not the thing I'm starting to hate about this show.  It's the completely unprompted confessions that people make.  Up until now those confessions have usually had a legitimate reason -- people spilling secrets in anger and for vengeance and whatnot. But the episode I just watched -- in which Alan tells his new wife one incriminating story about the death of his son-in-law and Alan's daughter tells her new "friend" an entirely different story -- one where she flat-out confesses to murder (albeit with the extenuating circumstances of battered wife syndrome) is just making me CRINGE.  Why?  WHY would anyone have those conversations?  I don't care HOW drunk Alan's daughter was.  She would NEVER confess all that to a woman she's only just recently met and who she HATED when they first met.

I'm a person who can engage in some major league willful suspension of disbelief but damn, this show is testing me.  The only thing keeping me going is that I heard that this show is based on a book that was, in turn, based on real events.

I'll keep watching (I'm stuck at home for the Pandemic so I might as well stick with it) but I will be VERY interested to see what is here on this board when I've finished my binge.

Edited June 23, 2020 by WatchrTina

[Quilt Fairy]

New season coming September 20!

[Valny]

On 8/28/2020 at 9:26 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

New season coming September 20!

Yay! about time... thanks for posting that Quilt Fairy.  Damn, why did it have to premiere the same night as the Emmy's!

[zoey1996]

Fabulous news!  PBS just posted about the new season on facebook, so I came over here to see if there was more news.  Watched the trailer.  Surprised but so happy that we'll get to see it!

[Quilt Fairy]

This is the trailer for the new and final season: https://www.pbssocal.org/programs/last-tango-halifax/season-4-preview-c0tls0/

[JudyObscure]

Wow, so much time has passed and so many new problems.  Woodworms are eating Gillian's upstairs.  Judith wants to marry John and I thought they already were. Alan's getting a part time job at the supermarket for something to do and to connect with people and Celia is against it because she's a snob and she's being a right bitch about everything.  Love having them all back.

Edited September 21, 2020 by JudyObscure

[zoey1996]

Alan's trying to get a job at the supermarket.  Is it to get away from Celia from time to time?  And C's complaining about his offering to help Gillian, but also saying about his potential job that they don't need the money.  They wouldn't need the money if she'd hold back on buying!  I try to keep some perspective on Celia, but she can be a right b*tch!  Wondering about Alan's brother Ted.  What's the real situation there - lucid moments amidst the dementia, or dementia moments with plenty of lucid time?  Dementia generally happens over time, so is he getting worse?

The granddaughters are adorable, but starting to get indoctrinated in the family dysfunction.  Looks like Raff and Ellie are doing well, with another child coming.

Altogether, I'm happy we're getting a last season.  I've enjoyed this show!

Edited September 21, 2020 by zoey1996

[cinsays]

3 hours ago, zoey1996 said:

Alan's trying to get a job at the supermarket.  Is it to get away from Celia from time to time?  And C's complaining about his offering to help Gillian, but also saying about his potential job that they don't need the money.  They wouldn't need the money if she'd hold back on buying!  I try to keep some perspective on Celia, but she can be a right b*tch!  Wondering about Alan's brother Ted.  What's the real situation there - lucid moments amidst the dementia, or dementia moments with plenty of lucid time?  Dementia generally happens over time, so is he getting worse?

The granddaughters are adorable, but starting to get indoctrinated in the family dysfunction.  Looks like Raff and Ellie are doing well, with another child coming.

Altogether, I'm happy we're getting a last season.  I've enjoyed this show!

I would be wanting a part-time job to get away from Celia too!  What a miserable bitchy woman.  How awful was her attitude during the birthday party.  Hope Alan can get some backbone and stand up to her and still help Gillian.

 

[Quilt Fairy]

Does anyone understand the situation with Gillian and Robbie?  What did the card say?  They did get married, right?  I know they aired the Christmas special right before this episode, but I don't remember much from it.  Had their marriage taken a turn by that time? 

Celia, oh Celia!  I'm thinking Alan's gotten over the illusion that the sun shone out of her ass!  It's never been a secret that she has more money than Alan, so while she doesn't need to give Gillian a loan - when she's obviously desperately in need - there's also no reason that Alan can't say "You're the one that wants the remodeled kitchen (in our brand new house) - you pay for it!"  Except of course we know Alan wouldn't do that.  

Speaking of houses, what did you think of Judith's? Wowza!  Of course, I say that thinking it's an abomination.  Are we to think that she's gone from a drop-down drunk to the next R. K. Rowling?  That's a bit of a stretch. 

Oh, and be prepared.  This last season is only 4 episodes long. 😥

Edited September 21, 2020 by Quilt Fairy

[zoey1996]

Gillian and Robbie did marry, but separated after Gillian confessed to killing her first husband (who was Robbie’s brother, IIRC) after putting up with abuse for years.  Robbie wrote from Canada. Seems that he’s exploring it but wanted to wish her a happy birthday.

Yes, surprised at Judith’s success as an author.  Must grate on John since he thought he would be a successful author, but but he hasn’t been.

[Valny]

On 9/21/2020 at 12:51 PM, cinsays said:

I would be wanting a part-time job to get away from Celia too!  What a miserable bitchy woman.  How awful was her attitude during the birthday party.  Hope Alan can get some backbone and stand up to her and still help Gillian.

 

I know right?! My blood was boiling when Celia was so rude to Jillian. STFU Celia!  Jillian's may be falling apart,can you just hold off remodeling your kitchen for a bit, geez! And what a beautiful new place Alan and she have now.  
I had no idea John lived in such an amazing house with Judith. Had no idea she was that well off.

Jillian's granddaughter delivered some good lines for a little kid.
Glad to have the series back. Will it be six episodes again as usual?

[Quilt Fairy]

54 minutes ago, Valny said:

Will it be six episodes again as usual?

As I understand it, just 4. 

[peacheslatour]

On 9/22/2020 at 6:03 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

As I understand it, just 4. 

Does she even like Alan any more? She treats him like shit.

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by peacheslatour
Oops, quoted wrong post.

[Quilt Fairy]

8 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Does she even like Alan any more? She treats him like shit.

 

I hate to say it, but I can understand why her first husband cheated on her.

[7-Zark-7]

It's interesting that Celia said "We did the sums". I don't think she did. If she had, she'd know that Alan is going broke trying to keep up paying his half of everything Celia buys. She had some nerve lighting into Gillian at her own birthday party for needing help with keeping a roof over her head. I'm a little surprised Caroline didn't jump in more forcefully. She’s never had trouble shutting her mother down.

[peacheslatour]

29 minutes ago, 7-Zark-7 said:

It's interesting that Celia said "We did the sums". I don't think she did. If she had, she'd know that Alan is going broke trying to keep up paying his half of everything Celia buys. She had some nerve lighting into Gillian at her own birthday party for needing help with keeping a roof over her head. I'm a little surprised Caroline didn't jump in more forcefully. She’s never had trouble shutting her mother down.

Maybe it was one of those situations that I think all of us have been in where you're just so shocked at what she said that you freeze.

[JudyObscure]

Wow! This show can pack more into fifty minutes than anything I've known. 

I'm afraid Caroline's  not-gay  girlfriend is going to publish all that inside info about Judith and there's going to be serious trouble.  

I kind of knew who Banksy was but looked it up to be sure -- anonymous street artist.  I would love to see Jillian rich.

[Quilt Fairy]

You know, I always assumed that Celia had more money than Alan because her husband had a better job and obviously Caroline was doing well, but now I'm not so sure.  I re-watched the Christmas special a few days ago and something really struck me.  There's a scene where Alan is telling Gillian that he and Celia had changed their wills, and that they were pooling their money and it would be split equally between her and Caroline when they were both gone.  Gillian says "But surely you didn't have equal amounts to put in to begin with...."  and Alan replies "Oh, not far off.  Don't worry, you'll still come out fine in the end."   If Celia brought in more money to the pot, half of the combined amount would be more than Gillian would have gotten from Alan alone, so in that case Alan would have said "you'll come out better in the end."   Alan is also very concerned that Celia be taken care of if he passes first, as if she doesn't have enough money to do so on her own.  So now I'm thinking that even if Celia's husband did have a better job than Alan, Celia was - and obviously still is - a big spender, and Alan's more modest lifestyle allowed him to craft a bigger nest egg to retire on. 

On to tonight's episode:  It was a mistake to leave Ted sleeping on the couch.  Even if he didn't have the start of dementia, waking up in a strange place can be very disorienting. 

[possibilities]

I had thought this show was canceled! So good to see it's back, even if just for a short run.

[Gizkok]

Hope someone can help me out.  I recently watched all seasons from the beginning and as I recall in one of the very first scenes Celia was ranting to Carolina on and on about how terrible her husband had treated her. One comment she made was something like he wouldn't even put her on his pension, meaning he got it all when he was alive and when he died she got none. Yet, the way she spends she seems quite well off. So did her husband leave her that well off?  I can't imagine she saved on her own.  Maybe she made good investments?  Also in that first episode after she meets Alan and there is a car chase which results in a rear-ender. She explains to Alan that her insurance rates will go up, if she can ever even get insurance again and he tells her not to worry, he won't turn it in to his insurance.  She assures him she will pay for his damage and he says "you will not."  She didn't argue. A little manipulation there? And getting him to go halves on the car she wanted? She does know a good thing when she sees it, doesn't she?

[Quilt Fairy]

11 hours ago, possibilities said:

I had thought this show was canceled! So good to see it's back, even if just for a short run.

It was never canceled as such, although the Christmas special several years could easily serve as the finale.  In the last scene, Alan and Celia literally drive off into the sunset.   And Sally Wainwright is juggling so many series (Gentleman Jack and Happy Valley for two) that she couldn't get back to this one as quickly as we'd like. 

I've been thinking about Caroline's dinner with Ruth.  Obviously, since I like Caroline I hate how Ruth ended the evening, and that kind of reaction to hearing someone's gay just seems odd.  But think about it if Caroline were a man.  Inviting a subordinate over for dinner (and lots of wine) and letting them know they can spend the night?  That's sexual harassment.  She could get sued.