Last Tango In Halifax - General Discussion

[stormy]

It's amazing Judith didn't have the baby, that's how predictable this story is.

[shandy]

I'm really having to fight my outraged sense of fan entitlement, but it's only because this stellar cast rises above the writing, which has entered, in my view, full blown panic mode. A shout for Michelle Hurst tho as Kate's mom - so little screen time but so much presence without words,  just to show an American can stand with those theater trained Brits and not be found wanting. 

 

When she hugged Alan, and managed to convey in 2 seconds how connected she felt to that kindest of men, I thought how lovely would it be to have them as an anchor couple, and so interesting on a lot of levels.

 

The actress playing Caroline is extraordinary - G-d forgive me but I kept thinking why couldn't it have been sweet William knocked over, then she could have had all the emotional fireworks, Celia could be reconciled to her in grief, and William, well I've forgotten angsty season 1 William who I loved for adoring his mom and Florence and the Machine and he just became absent, whereas Kate ... just breaks my heart. So now I'm left with Modern Family for a middle life gay couple. Grumble. 

[JudyObscure]

If Wainwright really believes that there was no way they'd speak to each other again without this tragedy, then she was just looking for a shortcut.

And it didn't turn out to be such a great shortcut because now we have whole, sorry episodes of grieving. What happened to the wild, fast paced, comedy of misfits from the first season?

The nanny problem seemed a bit ridiculous to me. Kate was going to be a stay at home mom while Caroline worked. Fine, but what on earth would make Caroline think she needed, or could, stick to the no-nanny plan once Kate was gone? Asking her mother to do two or three days a week? Seriously, even one day would be overly exhausting for a woman Celia's age and it would be hard for Alan, too. I'm glad John made it clear that an hour now and then was all he would be down for and Celia should have said the same. Caroline will need to work, find a full-time nanny for days and only use her friends and family for occasional night time baby sitting. She's very lucky the bio-dad is interested because most of them would be far, far away in this circumstance.

I actually think Caroline should have seriously considered whether or not to put the baby up for adoption. I'm not seeing the bonding, and I didn't see the real interest even before Kate died. I thought she was just going along with something Kate had always wanted. I sort of think, after Kate died, she might have taken Flora home because she thought everyone would think she was awful if she didn't. If she keeps the baby just out of sense of duty, while silently resenting her every day, it will be no favor to her. She seemed to be voicing some of the same feelings her son had when she said, "That's the baby's biological father and that's her grandmother and I don't know what I am." I was hoping Kate's mother would take the baby to America with her.

Edited July 20, 2015 by JudyObscure

[wonderwoman]

"If Wainwright really believes that there was no way they'd speak to each other again without this tragedy, then she was just looking for a shortcut."

Exactly! And it's a shortcut that exposes the limitations of the 6-episode season. So little time has passed over the first 4 episodes, yet so much has happened. Everything's feeling compressed and unsatisfying.

[Milz]

Was i the only one who threw a mini marshmallow at the screen when Celia told Kate's mom how fond she was of Kate and how she accepted their relationship?

 

What are Caroline's legal rights to Flora? Wouldn't bio-dad Greg have more parental rights than she?

 

Anyhow, who think Robbie will find out about Eddie's death and dump Gillian?

[stormy]

This show is currently airing Season 3 not season 4

[attica]

I loved how SL played her scenes, just all the time too exhausted to raise her voice. And I also liked (but haaaaated!) the subtext of Caroline's being expected to drop everything for the baby's care. And when she puts aside her pride to ask for help, everybody basically bails. One thing I've noticed in life is that if you labor under the Curse of the Capable, nobody will ever help you out. It's like their brains short circuit and they can't even imagine you not shouldering all the weight, all the time. And they'll give you shit for hiring a nanny, which is the best thing for everybody right now. 

 

Everybody knows driving with a baby is a great way to get them to sleep, but why doesn't everybody know that you can put a vibrator in/under their cribs/carseats/prams to do the same thing? They don't call it a Magic Wand for nothing, people! (If you think it's icky to give an infant your sex toy, buy a separate one! ;0)

 

Gillian has no sense of timing, tact or grace.

 

I admit I'm a Gillian apologist, but she really had to tell Caroline right away once she'd told John. Because she's smart enough to know he knows nowt of discretion. Plus, it was Caroline that brought up Eddie in that conversation, not Gillian. 

 

Besides the tea, there's another thing that every. single, character does, all the time. If a piece of information gets told to more than one person, the first person ALWAYS has to tell the second, "Oh, yeah, I knew that already." Can no one resist that, ever? Can no one simply receive a bit of news he or she might already know by just nodding? So much drama/hurt feelings would be avoided! Argh.

[LuciaMia]

Regarding Gillians firs husband. If memory serves, I dont think she actually murdered him. Didnt she find him critically wounded in the barn and waited to call 911 untill it was too late...

[JudyObscure]

And I also liked (but haaaaated!) the subtext of Caroline's being expected to drop everything for the baby's care. And when she puts aside her pride to ask for help, everybody basically bails.

I didn't get any subtext of Caroline being expected to quit her job, but I don't think anyone owes it to someone else to care for their child. If Caroline shouldn't be expected to drop everything for the baby's care, why should Celia or John? It's one thing to run over and babysit in an emergency, but to take up a regular commitment of childcare is a very big deal to some of us. It's something I don't think other people should be expected to do, just because they were asked to.

[whatsatool]

Pay attention to the ghost. Hire the real father as the Manny.

[Fishy]

Wow - great character portrayal by the actress who plays Caroline.  Well done indeed.  I even liked Celia for a moment.  I have a bad feeling though about Gillian and Robbie marrying.  I just don't see Caroline keeping her mouth shut about knowing the details of the death of Gillian's first husband and I can see Raff spilling the fact that she was so recently intimate (allegedly) with John (please go away).  And also bad feelings about what's up with Gary.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Fishy

[Milz]

Regarding Gillians firs husband. If memory serves, I dont think she actually murdered him. Didnt she find him critically wounded in the barn and waited to call 911 untill it was too late...

 

That's how it was originally explained. But when Gillian confessed to Caroline, she implied that she helped Eddie's death along by finishing him off.

 

About Baby Flora....I think she's a month or two preterm, so she might need "more" care than a full term baby would.

 

Gary's giving off creepy vibes. I can understand that he wants to get to know his dad and half/step sisters and their families, but he's being a bit too enthusiastic about it.

 

BTW, I loved it when Caroline introduced Alan as "my stepfather", rather than "my mum's husband". Their relationship seems to be closer than Gillian's and Celia's.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Milz

[Diane M]

"....... until a stranger walks into her life who may be the answer to her prayers."

 

I just watched this episode online, but I must have missed a scene.  What stranger is this?  A nanny for Flora?

[LittleIggy]

Regarding Gillians firs husband. If memory serves, I dont think she actually murdered him. Didnt she find him critically wounded in the barn and waited to call 911 untill it was too late...

They retconned it into intentional killing.

[kassygreene]

Caroline was reluctant to hire a nanny because Kate was very very much against having a nanny for a newborn baby - bonding with the wrong adult, and so on.  And the "ghost" of Kate (I think of "ghosts" in this context as your subconscious telling you something you already know with the voice and face of your lost loved one so that it is harder to ignore it) was very anti-nanny.  But realistically she either gets a nanny or she retires, and she doesn't want to retire at 47.  And kudos to all her family for being honest about not being able to do more than the occasional couple of hours.  Sudden death knocks everything out of balance, from the big obvious things like death, to the piddly stupid details like who makes sure the groceries are purchased.

[Diane M]

Please......who is the stranger who walks into Caroline's life?  What did I miss?  The biological father??

[Starchild]

Yeah pretty sure it's the bio-dad they mean.

[Diane M]

Thank you, Starchild.  The father did seem very pleased with the baby, and it would be nice for him to be in his child's life, even though that wasn't the original plan.

[shandy]

"That's the baby's biological father and that's her grandmother and I don't know what I am." I was hoping Kate's mother would take the baby to America with her.

 

I hadn't thought of that - but it would have been quite satisfying.

 

It also got me thinking that Kate was quite unusual in this LTIH universe, having Nigerian/African-American heritage. Caroline's WASPy private school, complete with its hymns and Oxford gowns didn't seem to be very ethnically mixed. I did start to wonder whether an American show would want to say something more about having a mixed race child in an all white environment, whether through comedy or through clear exposition that the characters had thought about this. 

[Dobson]

Can someone please tell me what happened between Jillian and Gary at the end in the cafe? Between planes flying over my house, my A/C blasting and a crying baby, I pretty much missed everything other than Jillian telling Gary to calm down.  What did he say?

[attica]

Gary became increasingly agitated about how Gillian and Alan weren't calling or texting him. It got to near freak-out dimensions. Which, given this show, seems ominous to me.

[applecrisp]

About Celia, she did marry Kenneth because he was "going places".  He was  a university professor.  I wonder if Celia would have married Alan as he was not of that status, all those years ago.  She married kenneth for the wrong reasons.

[Milz]

About Celia, she did marry Kenneth because he was "going places".  He was  a university professor.  I wonder if Celia would have married Alan as he was not of that status, all those years ago.  She married kenneth for the wrong reasons.

 

That's an interesting thought. Celia married Kenneth on the rebound. She and her sister were in love with the same man. And the sister got him, not her. So she has been resentful of her sister because if it wasn't for her (the sister) Celia would never had married Kenneth<----that's Celia rationalization. My rationalization is that Celia believes the universe revolves around her and her alone, and she also believes herself to be the victim, consistently wronged by the actions of other people.

[proserpina65]

Gary became increasingly agitated about how Gillian and Alan weren't calling or texting him. It got to near freak-out dimensions. Which, given this show, seems ominous to me.

I fully expect it to turn out that Gary needs a bone marrow transplant or something similar.  That's how ridiculously soap-opera-y this show is.

[JudyObscure]

I watched it again and Gary was saying that he was just now taking it all in and he was overwhelmed about it all and Gillian seemed to suddenly get very concerned and said, "Calm down!" three times.    You know you've lost control when Gillian is embarrassed by your behavior. 

 

Seriously, he didn't seem that wild to me, but the show obviously wants us to think he's freaking out.  Gary being bi-polar would make sense because of the high achievement and energy his success has demonstrated, but then he might be due for some depression or mania about  now if that's the case.  The show hasn't done mental illness yet but it's clearly fearless about controversy so look out. Celia can be counted on to have some out-dated, non-PC things to say about it.

 

I'm just guessing here. I may be way off.  Maybe Gary is a serial killer who will kidnap Gillian and threaten to make her miss her own wedding, forcing her to squish his head in a vice.  Anything's possible in Halifax.

[dcalley]

What post is this in response to? Did I miss something?

Some posts must have been moved/reorganized. I recall a post about Derek Jacoby being injured (tearing both quads, per Quilt Fairy), though that may have been in the Vicious forum. Anyway, he couldn't sit down or stand up during a scene.

[dcalley]

On Caroline's "Well, there's no point in you being here, is there?": I wish she'd just said nothing to Alan and turned away, which would still be rude but more understandable. Ugh. I'm beginning to want this show to be all about Calamity and Angus.

 

There's definitely a weird dynamic between Gary and his wife.

[Greecelover]

What!? Seriously? Wainwright can't be that bad a writer, so is Celia really that unredeemable a character?

I felt guilty because I loathed Celia from the moment I first set eyes on her. 

Now, not so much guilt, but still the dislike.

[dcalley]

The writer said she couldn't think of another way to bring Celia and Caroline back together, if you can believe it.

How about the birth of a baby? Although Celia is such a piece of work....

 

Gillian: she needs to stay off the drink. Every time she ends up in bed with John she's drunk.

She should maybe also get an app that requires you to pass a skill test before you can text (those exist, right?).

 

I was spoiled about Kate being in mortal peril (against my will) and am happy to have finally gotten to it because I've been dreading it and it's nice to be unspoiled again.

 

Paraphrasing:

Gary: "Yes, Felicity and I have been drinking, but we have a driver."

[shot of Gary driving everyone to the hospital]

Celia: "Gary drove us here."

[Me: WTF?]

 

 

What did Gillian's drunk text say? 

Edited July 25, 2015 by dcalley

[dcalley]

Apparently, car seats can go in the front seats in the UK.

My recent rental car in the UK had instructions about disabling the passenger airbag, and I think car seats were mentioned. It also seemed to have a weight sensor because it would beep at me (the passenger) if I wasn't fast enough with the buckle.

 

I missed the first six minutes so I don't know how sad those minutes were.

You missed a fakeout of sorts. Caroline was getting ready (in black) in the mirror and Kate and Flora were on the bed. Kate proposed the baby's name and they went back and forth over whether or not Caroline liked it, and Caroline said it was more Kate's decision than hers, since she was the birth mother. Eventually William knocked on the door and Kate was shown to no longer be there/never have been there.

[Brattinella]

Wow!  What a text!

[possibilities]

Wow, even drunk, that's a hell of a thing to say more or less unprovoked to someone on their wedding day (or ever). No wonder Kate and Caroline thought she was kidding, it's really the only possible semi-sane reaction.

[whatsatool]

Great cold open

[ZoloftBlob]

I've grown to love this show because these people all talk like my grandma

[Valny]

Also, I don't know what that last scene was about, showing us that John didn't leave Caroline for Judith - Caroline threw him out after finding out he cheated 

 

  It was weird that they went with a flashback. They've never done that before that I can recall right? 

 

 

 

Still, Caroline yelling at John is just about my favorite thing on LTiH, so I don't mind his presence too much. She had some spectacular insults for him in this episode.

 Yep...and I did love seeing  her losing her shit and throwing all that stuff at him.

 

And I don't know what story they are telling with Greg. But right now I'm skeptical.

 

  Hmmm.. I haven't gotten any weird vibes as of yet, I'm just glad he's taken the burden off Caroline. I didn't realize he was moving in until Celia told John.

 

I was hoping we could have gotten to see a scene with Caroline giving hell to the stupid drunk nanny. She would have really let her have it, drunk driving with Flora! Damn!

Wasn't expecting to see figment Kate any more. I thought last ep was going to be the only one. But it's nice that the actress actually got to be in these eps even though her character is dead. 

It's probably not going to happen but I wanted to know/see something about the person who ran over Kate. All we know is that they were out on bail. I don't know, I just thought we might be seeing/hearing something about Caroline pursuing the culprit(s) to get some justice. 

 

I had some laughs in this one actually.  First one was when Gillian was on the phone with Gary while at the dinner table and she does this huge eye roll and funny face with her mouth open after she tells him they'd look forward to all going to a football game.

 

I also laughed when Alan gets a call from Gary and you see Celia mouth "Oh God".  Then whispers "Tell him no more football."    I did enjoy when Celia called Lawrence a twit.   He is indeed.   Among other things,why would you pull that stunt in the opening scene when your mom is the head of the school(or whatever Caroline is.Headmistress?)

Speaking of Lawrence, guess now he's not going to mind Flora so much now that he found out that Greg is the writer of the Death Grip comic he loves.

 

 

Great cold open

 

.  Great music, and the first time we didn't have their usual theme song.   BTW, in the opening credits, under their names, there looks to be a tiny bit of writing there. Does it say something or is it not words of some sort? It's so damn tiny

 

Why is Gillian flirting with some old fling? Are we not supposed to root for her and Robbie? Her storyline confuses me so much this series

 

Now there's another guy she's fooled around with? That woman has gotten around!  Shallow not, that guy at the store was not bad looking!  Also glad that Gillian backtracked and told Robby that he wasn't the only person she told those things about her husband beating her, it was Caroline first. 

 

I had no idea what Gillian had seen in that newspaper that stopped her cold. I thought maybe it was something about the person who hit Kate. 

Sad only one more ep, wish these seasons were about two eps longer.  Looks like we're going to get another wedding(or not) in the finale.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Valny

[DHDancer]

The preview for next week revealed the paper thing.  Gary's definitely passive/aggressive.

 

So who's "shipping" Greg and Caroline?

[JudyObscure]

I'm not shipping Greg and Caroline but I am hoping he will end up with primary custody of Flora.  Greg bonded with her in one day more than Caroline during  all these weeks.  At first I thought the drunk driving incident was going to force  Caroline into a big moment where she rushed into the police station and clutched the baby to her neck with wild, relieved sobbing and a realization that she loved Flora more than she knew.  Nope.  She just looked down at her like she was making a positive ID.  Yes, she had been very worried, she feels the responsibility of Flora keenly, but Caroline just doesn't love her the way she should and it's not her fault.  As she said, she didn't want a baby.  She wanted Kate and Kate wanted a baby.  Enough with the dead Kate scenes. 

 

In other news, are women in action comics now completely bare breasted?  The last time I saw one, they were wearing big, metal bras of various types.  I thought PBS was the one station I could watch with my son in the room.  He got up and left out of embarrassment.

 

Other than that I enjoyed the episode.  More comedy and less tragedy.  Alan didn't have many lines but his facial expressions had me laughing through most of the show.

[whatsatool]

In the paper Gary announces to the world tabloid style and in living color that Alan is his Dad.

[Milz]

When Celia said that Gary seemed to think the world revolved around him, I thought "yeah, takes one to know one." *roll eyes*

 

Who was the cheese man? I missed that part because I had to investigate a loud "crash!" in the kid's room.

[whatsatool]

Is Alan wearing lipstick?

[applecrisp]

I'm not shipping Greg and Caroline but I am hoping he will end up with primary custody of Flora.  Greg bonded with her in one day more than Caroline during  all these weeks.  At first I thought the drunk driving incident was going to force  Caroline into a big moment where she rushed into the police station and clutched the baby to her neck with wild, relieved sobbing and a realization that she loved Flora more than she knew.  Nope.  She just looked down at her like she was making a positive ID.  Yes, she had been very worried, she feels the responsibility of Flora keenly, but Caroline just doesn't love her the way she should and it's not her fault.  As she said, she didn't want a baby.  She wanted Kate and Kate wanted a baby.  Enough with the dead Kate scenes. 

 

In other news, are women in action comics now completely bare breasted?  The last time I saw one, they were wearing big, metal bras of various types.  I thought PBS was the one station I could watch with my son in the room.  He got up and left out of embarrassment.

 

Other than that I enjoyed the episode.  More comedy and less tragedy.  Alan didn't have many lines but his facial expressions had me laughing through most of the show.

 

I agree with your post.  It's funny that your son left the room.  I understand, when i watch something with my nephew who is older, I want to leave - when something is a little too explicit.. Just a little uncomfortable.  I like Kate but am tired of her ghost as well.

 

I thought more of them would be fans of "football" was a little surprised about that.  

 

It can't be said enough more Gillian and Caroline love their 'sisterly" bond. 

[attica]

Great music,

 

Was it original, or did they crib it from Pulp Fiction?

[proserpina65]

Jeez, even before the reveal at the end, Gary was becoming insufferable, and I actually liked him up until this week.  But sticking himself in the middle of a discussion about whether or not someone else's child goes to university was totally uncalled for, and the wedding thing pissed me off.  If Gillian doesn't want a big wedding and doesn't want your help with it - for whatever reason - stay the fricking hell out of it.  Ugh.

 

Greg, on the other hand, was all kinds of adorable with baby Flora.

 

John is pointless.  Can he go away and get a life now?

[proserpina65]

Quote

Great music,

Was it original, or did they crib it from Pulp Fiction?

 

 

That, or Reservoir Dogs, I believe.  Definitely Quentin Tarantino.

[LuciaMia]

 

Enough with the dead Kate scenes.

Really. Way tired of all this Blithe Spirit stuff.

*******

I dont think Gillian was flirting with Cheese Guy. She looked more appalled that she was going to be working at the same place with this old one or two night stand; whos obviously interested in starting things up...

Edited July 27, 2015 by LuciaMia

[izabella]

If Gillian doesn't want a big wedding and doesn't want your help with it - for whatever reason - stay the fricking hell out of it.  Ugh.

 

 

I don't think Gillian wants a wedding at all.  I think she agreed to marry Robbie, but doesn't really want to.  She seemed all hot and bothered after the encounter with her former fling, the cheese man, to the point she needed to grab a tabloid to fan herself to cool off.  And she was bonking John a couple of weeks prior.

 

I don't think she wants a big, fancy wedding like Gary suggested, but I also don't think she wants to get married either.

Enough with the dead Kate scenes.

 

Yes, this.  I find "ghosts" so freaking annoying.  No, just no.  Stop.

[Marianne]

Well, I thought Gillian had a little twinkle in her eye, as if she had been flattered and tantalized by the guy's attention.  I got the impression that she might end up next episode at least considering getting involved with him.  I have to say that I have come to dislike Gillian. She seems to have--for lack of a better phrase--no moral core, especially  when it comes to relationships with men. And she's a hypocrite.   for a grown up who's been around, she got stayed on her high horse a little too long with regard to the revelation of her father's infidelity.  I really like the actor, Nicola Walker, but I just find Gillian to be an unpleasant and unlikable character.

 

 

[izabella]

Well, I thought Gillian had a little twinkle in her eye, as if she had been flattered and tantalized by the guy's attention.  I got the impression that she might end up next episode at least considering getting involved with him.  I have to say that I have come to dislike Gillian. She seems to have--for lack of a better phrase--no moral core, especially  when it comes to relationships with men. And she's a hypocrite.   for a grown up who's been around, she got stayed on her high horse a little too long with regard to the revelation of her father's infidelity.  I really like the actor, Nicola Walker, but I just find Gillian to be an unpleasant and unlikable character.

 

I agree with all of this, and I absolutely got the impression she was flattered by cheese man's attention.  Why else would they make a point of her fanning herself after their encounter?

[QuelleC]

Boy, not me at all.  She looked horrified she would have to be working with this guy but needs the money.  She doesn't like to depend on anybody and all that...  She reluctantly told him she was going to be working there, he seemed really pushy and leering and glad he'll see her more.  When she left she was muttering what I thought I could make out as a swear word or two.  Horribly awkward, and she picked up the paper to cool off over it.  How else was she going to just happen to see that over the top tabloid spread by Gary?

[attica]

Yeah, I agree; Gillian was decidedly un-pleased to be in convo with Cheese Guy.