Friends - General Discussion

[Bort]

“Everything isn't magical and aglow with the light of a million fairies! They were just brake lights, Parker!“

[Ms Blue Jay]

"You're like Santa Claus...…. on Prozac…….. in DisneyLand………. getting laid!"

[VCRTracking]

 

[wendyg]

Very good interview with David Schimmer at the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jan/27/david-schwimmer-im-very-aware-of-my-privilege-as-a-heterosexual-white-male

 

 

[Mr. Meatball Man]

On 1/27/2020 at 7:15 AM, wendyg said:

Very good interview with David Schimmer at the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jan/27/david-schwimmer-im-very-aware-of-my-privilege-as-a-heterosexual-white-male

 

 

Good interview, but "an all-black Friends" already happened. In fact, it happened a year before Friends came out. I've heard people call it Living Single.

When I got to that part in the interview, that was my first thought, and everybody's calling David out for that, including Erika Alexander (Maxine from Living Single).

[Guest]

However, many of the people "calling him out" are saying that Friends was a copycat show and ripped off Living Single. Is every comedy about single people living in the city a copycat then? I can't really get behind that.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Wasn’t a show about single 20-somethings in the big city pretty new territory in 1993? Most sitcoms were family oriented and about the foibles of marriage. The dating stories came from teenage characters, so that whole post-college unmarried adults navigating life was pretty fresh for the time. I was just a kid, so I don’t know for sure, but I think Living Single was pretty groundbreaking. 

[Hiyo]

By that logic, Living Single kind of ripped off Going Places.

[Bort]

Well, hell, wasn’t Three’s Company the epitome of shows about single 20-somethings? None of this stuff is original. 

[WendyCR72]

TV shows live and thrive by tropes. I mean, as pointed out, Three's Company led the way for both Friends and Living Single. And hell, in another genre, you had the popular male/female investigative pairings of the time:

Hart To Hart which led to Remington Steele which led to Scarecrow & Mrs. King which led to Moonlighting which led to Bones which led to Castle.

Originality for any TV show is a rare commodity.

[Irlandesa]

I agree. And that's why when he talked about a Asian or black Friends, I think he actually meant a literal reboot of Friends with an all-Asian or all-black cast as opposed to a separate show with a similar premise. Because that definitely existed before Friends in many forums. 

[izabella]

16 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Well, hell, wasn’t Three’s Company the epitome of shows about single 20-somethings? None of this stuff is original. 

As was Laverne & Shirley.

[Bort]

Beginning February 10, tbs will air every episode of Friends from the beginning, so tune in weekdays 10 a.m.-4 p.m. ET through March 6.

[Jax7917]

I love friends and would love any sort of reunion they want to give us , but it is absolute insanity that each of them are getting something like 4 million dollars to do a one hour special . That money can go to so many Useful things besides people that are already loaded . The rich get richer . 

[Ms Blue Jay]

It's apples and oranges.  It's completely unrelated things.  The fans would love to see a reunion, and networks are willing to pay.  I have no idea why the actors should say they don't want to be compensated fairly or what they're worth.

I suggest following this Twitter account which shows how often people in creative fields and in arts are ripped off.  It happens constantly.  These 6 "Friends" have figured out how to have themselves and their families be safe and prosperous forever and I don't begrudge them that.

https://twitter.com/forexposure_txt

"Friends" has done so much for me in my life.  I say they're worth it. 

They've given up certain things to be 6 of the most famous people on the planet.  Look at all the personal problems that Matt Perry has gone through.  Jennifer Aniston is still on the front page of every tabloid paper every single day  with all sorts of lies said about her because tabloid writers are still insanely jealous that she married Brad Pitt 20 freaking years ago.

Networks are willing to pay, I say take the money.  The 6 "Friends" don't have to do anything they don't want to do, and they know it.  When they do the reunion, they'll be doing it mostly for the fans, and it will be a service for us.  The 6 are asked about it constantly, like daily.  There are social media accounts devoted to begging and hoping for this.

Networks always make more money than the artists.  It's like team owners always making more than the athletes.  Always always always.  The worker is never going to make more money than the corporation in America.  Ever.  So, they're compensated fairly.  With all the money that NBC made off them back in the day, they were probably underpaid, to be honest.  What about all that syndication money?  DVDs, Blu Rays, merchandise, etc.  I still buy "Friends" t-shirts and mugs.  I've been to the NBC Store at 30 Rock, etc. and bought merchandise there also.  "Friends" is in syndication worldwide, there are "Friends" cafes all over the world.  There's no way the 6 actors are seeing all of the money they should be.  

Edited February 19, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Hiyo]

Quote

I have no idea why the actors should say they don't want to be compensated fairly or what they're worth.

Yeah, since one can only wonder how much NBC would make a from reunion...

Quote

There's no way the 6 actors are seeing all of the money they should be.  

I do believe they're all still making a couple million dollars of the show annually, right?

[Ms Blue Jay]

If that's true, there's still no way for them to stop magazines, stores, and other bodies worldwide from exploiting their image for profit.  There's just no way.  

[Bort]

13 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I have no idea why the actors should say they don't want to be compensated fairly or what they're worth.

I think a lot of people don’t seem to realize that an actor’s job is essentially contract work. There’s no 401K retirement plan for them. So getting a lucrative deal like Friends, Big Bang Theory, Star Trek, etc is very good for them and I’m glad they have that. 

[helenamonster]

23 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

"Friends" is in syndication worldwide, there are "Friends" cafes all over the world.  There's no way the 6 actors are seeing all of the money they should be.  

There's no way they're not making money off syndication. They signed those contracts back in the '90s when getting a show to a hundred episodes so it could run on cable in perpetuity was big business, way before streaming platforms muddied the waters on these things. If they're not seeing syndication money then they have the world's shittiest agents and should fire them immediately.

But to the rest of your point, I doubt they're making money off any merchandise (most of the licensed merch that I see doesn't appear to feature any of their likenesses, and they don't own any rights to the Friends trademark) and like any actor, they should absolutely hold out for what they're worth when it comes to a reunion, movie, etc. As others have said, no matter what they'd make from that kind of thing, the suits at NBC and Warner Brothers would make buttloads more.

I truly don't have any desire for a reunion. I enjoyed the show for what it was and I can't see a reunion living up to people's expectations. I think if they wanted to do it, they would have already.

[Ms Blue Jay]

It's already been announced they're doing it for HBO.

[helenamonster]

7 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's already been announced they're doing it for HBO.

Ah well. Guess I'll watch--but I won't be happy about it!*

*I might be a little happy.

[chitowngirl]

Is it going to be a reunion of the actors or a show/reboot of the characters?

[Rockstar99435]

21 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's already been announced they're doing it for HBO.

 

21 hours ago, helenamonster said:

Ah well. Guess I'll watch--but I won't be happy about it!*

*I might be a little happy.

If you had asked me yesterday, I would have said that we didn't need a reunion and just let the show live in sydication peace forever, but yeah, I will definitely be watching it...with popcorn.

 

I am kinda worried that they're going to fuck it up. As long as Monica and Chandler are still being awesome together, I'll be okay. 

[Magnumfangirl]

On 2/20/2020 at 9:34 AM, chitowngirl said:

Is it going to be a reunion of the actors or a show/reboot of the characters?

I think it's just a reunion of the actors and not a sequel.  

[chitowngirl]

22 minutes ago, Magnumfangirl said:

I think it's just a reunion of the actors and not a sequel.  

That’s disappointing. They will all sit and answer the same questions, say how wonderful it was and how they are all good friends IRL...and nothing new will be discussed.

[LexieLily]

6 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

That’s disappointing. They will all sit and answer the same questions, say how wonderful it was and how they are all good friends IRL...and nothing new will be discussed.

And will this end up on YouTube? I don't even have HBO and I'm not buying whatever HBOMax is for this.

[Danny Franks]

I'll be honest, I actively do not want a scripted reunion show. I think it would be depressing to see these characters in middle age, and either see how much they've changed or how they've somehow stayed the same despite fifteen years having passed. Hey look, Chandler is the tired old dad of teenagers! Ross and Rachel are somehow still together! Phoebe's got a mortgage and is raising kids! Joey is... probably something like the Matt LeBlanc of Episodes.

I'm glad this looks like it's just a reunion, even if that is a hackneyed, tired concept that probably won't give us much we didn't already know. 

[Bort]

It also gives me a good reason to skip it and not feel like I’m missing out.

[blondiec0332]

Back in the day this reunion would.have taken place on Oprah or Larry King Live. Now it costs millions and will air on a network/streaming service millions of fans don't have.  Shaking my head.

[mojoween]

I know this is way old territory, but the episode has been on TBS, FOX and Nickelodeon in the past week so it’s their fault.

When Ross goes to Rachel’s office on their anniversary, it is APPALLING how wrong he was.

The fact that she didn’t set HIM on fire showed incredible restraint on her part.  I can’t count high enough to list all of the ways he belittled her and actively did not listen.  I mean, her phone call alone with the buyer made it pretty fucking clear that she was dealing with some serious shit and didn’t have time to deal with his bullshit.

And the episode before, with the conference he MADE her take him to and then acted like the world’s giant ass?  Generally Ross is in my Friends top three but fuck him that time.  What a dick he was!

[Ms Blue Jay]

29 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I know this is way old territory, but the episode has been on TBS, FOX and Nickelodeon in the past week so it’s their fault.

When Ross goes to Rachel’s office on their anniversary, it is APPALLING how wrong he was.

The fact that she didn’t set HIM on fire showed incredible restraint on her part.  I can’t count high enough to list all of the ways he belittled her and actively did not listen.  I mean, her phone call alone with the buyer made it pretty fucking clear that she was dealing with some serious shit and didn’t have time to deal with his bullshit.

And the episode before, with the conference he MADE her take him to and then acted like the world’s giant ass?  Generally Ross is in my Friends top three but fuck him that time.  What a dick he was!

Ugh, thank you.  Yes.  I've even gotten in arguments with people in real life over this shit.  LOL.  Ross was wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

He was extremely possessive and hated Rachel having a life outside of him.  It was nuts.  

Once my *Parents* came to my job in the middle of my holding a screening for hundreds of people, to talk to me about something unrelated and completely NOT an emergency, and I was livid.  I felt like they saw me like their little girl who doesn't have a real professional job and responsibilities…… so yeah, I'm Team Rachel.  

[Dancing Queen]

On 2/23/2020 at 12:21 AM, mojoween said:

When Ross goes to Rachel’s office on their anniversary, it is APPALLING how wrong he was.

For me, the most frustrating thing about the "we were on a break" saga is that Ross and Rachel never finished the argument that caused the break - that Ross belittled Rachel's work and didn't trust her to stay faithful because she worked with cute guys.

The writers treated "We were on a break!" as a punchline, but Ross always used it to deflect from his crappy behavior, reducing their breakup to a technicality about whether sleeping with the Copy Girl was cheating instead of acknowledging that he had consistently disrespected Rachel's work and autonomy to the point that Rachel wanted a break in the first place.

In fact, this is why I don't believe Ross and Rachel's relationship survived more than a few days/weeks/months past the finale - Ross was always more concerned about proving he was "right" than respecting Rachel as a real person with agency and feelings and a life outside of their relationship. 

[Crs97]

I forgot how much I hate Phoebe and Rachel when they plan Monica’s bridal shower.  They are such jerks about it.

[Danny Franks]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 2:24 PM, Dancing Queen said:

In fact, this is why I don't believe Ross and Rachel's relationship survived more than a few days/weeks/months past the finale - Ross was always more concerned about proving he was "right" than respecting Rachel as a real person with agency and feelings and a life outside of their relationship. 

This is one of the reasons I really, really don't want a scripted reunion show. I find it frankly unbelievable that Ross and Rachel would be a happy couple, almost twenty years later.

Chandler and Monica? Yes, I believe they could settle into domestic bliss and be happy, middle aged suburbanites. But Ross and Rachel? Countless fights, at least half a dozen breakups and a daughter who's at least mildly traumatised from having such crazy parents.

Also, I feel like a scripted reunion would still pitch Joey as a ladies man who hasn't ever settled down. And that would be the saddest spectacle of all.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Danny Franks

[princelina]

18 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I forgot how much I hate Phoebe and Rachel when they plan Monica’s bridal shower.  They are such jerks about it.

They are - but I always get caught up in the fact that Monica would never have let that happen. She would have planned it to the last detail and allowed them to host it.  So in that episode I'm just annoyed by the show 😄 

[Hiyo]

You can now get the Friends version of Monopoly in the US...

https://ew.com/tv/friends-monopoly-board-game-amazon/

[Mr. Meatball Man]

I'm watching TOW Rachel's Date. It's strange to think that the writers were able to portray Joey as intelligent and thoughtful as they did in this episode, and then gave him almost nothing to work with in the last two seasons.

Honestly, Joey's characterization in season eight was one of his better ones. 

[Peace 47]

On 2/27/2020 at 2:23 PM, Crs97 said:

I forgot how much I hate Phoebe and Rachel when they plan Monica’s bridal shower.  They are such jerks about it.

I always felt this was an unfortunate example of characters being shoehorned to fit a plot, instead of a plot being developed around the characters.  There was that prior episode where Rachel gets very emotional about the thought of being Monica’s maid of honor, and had obviously put a lot of thought into the role, even down to some handkerchief (or something?) that she wanted Monica to use.

Plus, Monica and Rachel always previously had tended to be shown as aligned on giving a lot of thought to wedding details (like pouring over Monica’s wedding binder).  So I just found it hard to believe Rachel wouldn’t have prioritized planning a shower because she views the whole marriage process as deeply important.  Forgetting to send/ delaying on actually sending out the wedding invitations?  Yeah, I could see Rachel procrastinating on that a little too long. But not forgetting to plan an entire important party.

Likewise, I wasn’t such a fan of Monica being such an overbearing jerk about Phoebe’s rehearsal dinner and wedding entertainment and whatnot.  Monica envisions weddings as these magical fairy princess days (which I don’t personally relate to, but whatever).  I could see her intense planning driving Phoebe nuts (that’s always been a sore point in their relationship), but Monica actively stomping on Phoebe’s preferences seemed just a little too far for comedy purposes.

[Nellise]

I've wondered how much of the seemingly out of character stuff we see in the last few seasons (like the wedding stuff you're all talking about) was because of Robert Carlock mostly taking over the show . His projects since then haven't exactly been filled with realistic people or situations (30 Rock, Kimmy Schmidt). He wrote the story for the Monica's Boots episode, which was one of the dumbest and poorly acted subplots they ever had, and the other episodes he wrote weren't exactly stellar (the penis cake...).

Edited March 10, 2020 by Nellise

[Mr. Meatball Man]

On 3/9/2020 at 8:46 AM, Peace 47 said:

I always felt this was an unfortunate example of characters being shoehorned to fit a plot, instead of a plot being developed around the characters.  There was that prior episode where Rachel gets very emotional about the thought of being Monica’s maid of honor, and had obviously put a lot of thought into the role, even down to some handkerchief (or something?) that she wanted Monica to use.

Plus, Monica and Rachel always previously had tended to be shown as aligned on giving a lot of thought to wedding details (like pouring over Monica’s wedding binder).  So I just found it hard to believe Rachel wouldn’t have prioritized planning a shower because she views the whole marriage process as deeply important.  Forgetting to send/ delaying on actually sending out the wedding invitations?  Yeah, I could see Rachel procrastinating on that a little too long. But not forgetting to plan an entire important party.

Likewise, I wasn’t such a fan of Monica being such an overbearing jerk about Phoebe’s rehearsal dinner and wedding entertainment and whatnot.  Monica envisions weddings as these magical fairy princess days (which I don’t personally relate to, but whatever).  I could see her intense planning driving Phoebe nuts (that’s always been a sore point in their relationship), but Monica actively stomping on Phoebe’s preferences seemed just a little too far for comedy purposes.

The only thing I didn't like about that episode was how Monica received no repercussions for the way she was acting. Everything goes wrong on the day of the wedding and Phoebe has to beg for Monica to come back like she was in the wrong for not wanting her involved. It's one of those episodes that made a lot of sense on paper, but because they pushed Monica's OCD and controlling attitude to cartoonish levels, you don't feel bad for her losing her spot as the maid of honor. 

 

On 3/10/2020 at 5:28 AM, Nellise said:

I've wondered how much of the seemingly out of character stuff we see in the last few seasons (like the wedding stuff you're all talking about) was because of Robert Carlock mostly taking over the show . His projects since then haven't exactly been filled with realistic people or situations (30 Rock, Kimmy Schmidt). He wrote the story for the Monica's Boots episode, which was one of the dumbest and poorly acted subplots they ever had, and the other episodes he wrote weren't exactly stellar (the penis cake...).

I don't know how much influence Robert Carlock had on the show, but he was just a writer and producer when he was working on it. The person who usually has the most influence on a television series is the showrunner, and at that time, I believe the showrunners of Friends were Scott Silveri and Shana Goldberg-Meehan.

A lot of sitcoms tend to decline after a couple seasons because they exaggerate the most prominent aspects of the characters. Eventually, the characters become their own people, and the sitcom starts to become a parody of itself instead of a parody of real life. You write about 20-25 episodes every season, and it becomes harder to come up with ideas that work for the characters, so you have to start having a more plot-based mindset instead of a character-based mindset. That's how you end up with episodes like Ross being attracted to his own cousin, Phoebe trying to get Sting tickets, the whole false alarm proposal at the start of season nine, Danny DeVito guest starring as a stripper, and about 80% of Joey's stories in the last two seasons. 

[wendyg]

A key element of that is that sometime around episode 100 the creators of the show want to do something new - once the show is sold into syndication, their money is locked in. So at some point new showrunners take over and the show becomes an imitation of the original show. We're seeing this now with SUPERSTORE...for example.

 

[Mr. Meatball Man]

8 hours ago, wendyg said:

A key element of that is that sometime around episode 100 the creators of the show want to do something new - once the show is sold into syndication, their money is locked in. So at some point new showrunners take over and the show becomes an imitation of the original show. We're seeing this now with SUPERSTORE...for example.

 

Yeah, it's happening with The Goldbergs too, but they hit 100 episodes a while ago. Adam F. Goldberg stepped down as showrunner this season. He's still involved in the show as an executive producer, but he's not managing the day-to-day operations anymore. He signed a development deal a while back, and some people have been complaining about the quality of the show this season.

The same thing happened back in the day with The Simpsons. A lot of the original writers left after season four to take development deals, and they also had to bring in a new showrunner. At least with that show, they were able to avoid becoming an imitation of themselves for a couple more years, even with the constant staff changes. 

[Kiki777]

So I had a Friends marathon playing all day as background noise (like many, I’ve been working from home) and something is making me scratch my head.  When Monica puts a raw turkey over head and does a little shimmy, Chandler says ‘I love you’ for the first time and they both freak out.  Fast forward a few episodes to when everyone finds out about their secret relationship and Chandler again blurts that he’s in love with her, which is somehow again a big deal.  Did the turkey head dance happen in an alternate reality or something?

[Danny Franks]

On 3/9/2020 at 12:46 PM, Peace 47 said:

I always felt this was an unfortunate example of characters being shoehorned to fit a plot, instead of a plot being developed around the characters.  There was that prior episode where Rachel gets very emotional about the thought of being Monica’s maid of honor, and had obviously put a lot of thought into the role, even down to some handkerchief (or something?) that she wanted Monica to use.

This sort of thing happens a lot in TV shows, especially once they're a few seasons in. The writers have run through a lot of ideas, a lot of storylines, and coming up with new stuff is ever more challenging. So it's easier to just twist the characters a little bit so they fit the idea you've come up with. Then, next time you have to twist them a little bit more, then a bit more.

It's a really good argument that TV shows shouldn't last more than a few years, for people who really value character and consistency.

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, Kiki777 said:

So I had a Friends marathon playing all day as background noise (like many, I’ve been working from home) and something is making me scratch my head.  When Monica puts a raw turkey over head and does a little shimmy, Chandler says ‘I love you’ for the first time and they both freak out.  Fast forward a few episodes to when everyone finds out about their secret relationship and Chandler again blurts that he’s in love with her, which is somehow again a big deal.  Did the turkey head dance happen in an alternate reality or something?

No. Chandler did blurt out "ILY" during the turkey thing in real time, but then immediately tried to deny and walk it back. I think the second time was such a big deal because it was in front of most of the gang and Chandler felt confident enough to trust in it that time, no longer afraid.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I personally think that the writers just forgot the first one, and they fucked that up.  That mistake always looks so stupid on rewatch.  

The one with all the Thanksgivings:

Written by Gregory S. Malins:  Aired November 19, 1998

The one where everybody finds out:

Written by Alexa Junge:  Aired February 11, 1999

Personally, I think it's a dumb continuity mistake.  People make mistakes, so I don't think it's so outlandish to believe that it is one.

On 3/20/2020 at 6:42 PM, Danny Franks said:

It's a really good argument that TV shows shouldn't last more than a few years, for people who really value character and consistency.

Some shows don't have trouble with it, even ones with many seasons.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Bort]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Some shows don't have trouble with it, even ones with many seasons.

True. For instance, I’m not really interested in watching most of the last two seasons of Friends. But The Big Bang Theory ran for 12 years and I’ll watch any episode of any season of that show. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

No. Chandler did blurt out "ILY" during the turkey thing in real time, but then immediately tried to deny and walk it back. I think the second time was such a big deal because it was in front of most of the gang and Chandler felt confident enough to trust in it that time, no longer afraid.

Good enough an explanation for me.

[blondiec0332]

On 3/25/2020 at 12:26 AM, kariyaki said:

True. For instance, I’m not really interested in watching most of the last two seasons of Friends. But The Big Bang Theory ran for 12 years and I’ll watch any episode of any season of that show. 

Me too. And add Frasier to the list. I think a lot of it has to do with how many writers stay with a show. If writers come and go after each season the quality is going to suffer.

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by blondiec0332

[Hiyo]

I'll take Friends at it's worst over...well, any season of The Bing Bang Theory.