Friends - General Discussion

[Was-MArsenault]

Allee Willis, ‘September’ and ‘Friends’ Theme Songwriter, Dies at 72

https://variety.com/2019/music/people-news/allee-willis-dead-dies-songwriter-1203451705/

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

Why is it being removed?

Per the story my local news had on it, the show is moving to HBO Max in the new year.

[slf]

I've always thought Phoebe's most overrated personality trait was her quirkiness. Most of it was not funny or cute. I thought her best quality - at least during the first few seasons - was her kindness. There were times when she was so sweet and supportive of her friends.

Chandler's most overrated trait is his intellect. I just didn't feel like he was so much smarter than everyone except Joey and Phoebe. He was always positioned as the Smart One, alongside Ross, but he always seemed average for his background.

 

[Madding crowd]

I also thought Chandler was the funny one and Ross was the smart one. Chandler was reasonably smart but not so much that he overshadowed anyone but Joey.

I never thought Phoebe was all that nice; anytime anyone disagreed with her she threatened them or got mean. Lisa Kudrow was great in that part but I never understood why the rest of the friends would hang out with her or why she would hang out with them. You would think she would find friends more interested in reincarnation and other spiritual things she was into.

[Bort]

I never really thought of Ross as the smart one. It was really just that he had the most education, being the only one with any post grad degree. 
 

And of the Friends who went to college, they all were in different fields, so it’s not really comparable — not to mention that they never said what the others majored in.  Monica, I always assumed she eschewed college for culinary school. Chandler: some sort business degree? Rachel: fashion?

[chitowngirl]

I always thought Rachel had a generic Liberal Arts degree. When she was job hunting in the beginning of the series, she said she was qualified for nothing. That’s not to say anything is wrong with a liberal arts degree. Just that she went to college just to go to college, possibly for an Mrs. degree, and she didn’t have any focus.

[Bort]

True, Rachel’s degree could be anything from poli-sci to communications. Whatever degree it is people get when they don’t plan on earning a living with it. We only know it wasn’t psychology, as there was never any available parking near the building. 

[Madding crowd]

Ross had a PHD, was a professor and enjoyed things like documentaries and foreign films. I do think he was supposed to be the smart one, Joey the hot one and Chandler the funny one. In reality all three guys were attractive and funny and two out of the three smart. This was a comedy though so the attributes were also use to mock them at times. I didn’t mean anything against the other characters by saying Ross was smart, it was mentioned several times in the show.

I also thought Monica was smart and Rachel and Phoebe a little less so.

[scarynikki12]

Based on my own college experience I think Rachel was communications. At my school elementary education and communications were the two degrees that sorority girls seeking their MRS degree would major in. I think the course load was generally considered to be easier than something like business or science so the MRS seekers wouldn't have to commit their brains too much. I remember how much it pissed off my sorority sisters who actually wanted to pursue careers in those fields because they got lumped in with the rest. So I've always gone with communications based one what little we know about her college experience and my own in real life.

[slf]

Ross' most overrated trait is his desire to be married. I've seen it said that this makes Ross a catch, and ultimately a good guy even if he was terrible at relationships, because so many guys aren't focused on marriage but I disagree. Ross was into marriage for the sake of being "settled". He wanted that sort of generic, suburban house with the yard and two or three kids in a neighborhood near a good school lifestyle he had growing up. As he told Rachel.

He married the first woman he was ever in a relationship with, cheated on Julie with Rachel, completely screwed up his relationship with Rachel by telling her he expected her to realize her career was "just" a job because he felt she wasn't prioritizing him, married Emily after knowing her less than four months and then said another woman's name at the altar, and he cheated on Bonnie with Rachel. Not to mention the Vegas marriage disaster and his relationship with like a nineteen year old student.

[MadyGirl1987]

19 hours ago, slf said:

Ross' most overrated trait is his desire to be married. I've seen it said that this makes Ross a catch, and ultimately a good guy even if he was terrible at relationships, because so many guys aren't focused on marriage but I disagree. Ross was into marriage for the sake of being "settled". He wanted that sort of generic, suburban house with the yard and two or three kids in a neighborhood near a good school lifestyle he had growing up. As he told Rachel.

He married the first woman he was ever in a relationship with, cheated on Julie with Rachel, completely screwed up his relationship with Rachel by telling her he expected her to realize her career was "just" a job because he felt she wasn't prioritizing him, married Emily after knowing her less than four months and then said another woman's name at the altar, and he cheated on Bonnie with Rachel. Not to mention the Vegas marriage disaster and his relationship with like a nineteen year old student.

I think you underplay the impact of Carol cheating on and dumping him. I think that caused a lot of his trust issues. How could it not, when you find out the person you wanted to spend your life with cheated on you and is leaving you for that person?

Also; you mention the times he cheats on women with Rachel. What about Rachel's part in that? She only ever goes after Ross when he's with other women... I mean she goes to London intending to tell him she loves him on his wedding day to Emily! It takes two to tango, after all, and it's not like she didn't know he was involved with another woman...

[Bort]

27 minutes ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

Also; you mention the times he cheats on women with Rachel. What about Rachel's part in that? She only ever goes after Ross when he's with other women... I mean she goes to London intending to tell him she loves him on his wedding day to Emily! It takes two to tango, after all, and it's not like she didn't know he was involved with another woman...

Rachel’s issues with pursuing Ross aside, Ross’s relationships were ultimately up to Ross. He’s the one who couldn’t keep his lips off Rachel when he was dating other people. Even if she did a naked fan dance in front of him, he should have the wherewithal to resist. 

[Guest]

The speed with which Emily remarried after the divorce from Ross makes me think they were well-suited in that regard.

[FilmTVGeek80]

23 hours ago, slf said:

Ross was into marriage for the sake of being "settled". He wanted that sort of generic, suburban house with the yard and two or three kids in a neighborhood near a good school lifestyle he had growing up. As he told Rachel.

What's wrong with that? I think a good chunk of people get married because they want to settle down with the people they love. It's not a flaw that someone wants a traditional life and the kind they had when they were growing up. 

 

23 hours ago, slf said:

He married the first woman he was ever in a relationship with, cheated on Julie with Rachel, completely screwed up his relationship with Rachel by telling her he expected her to realize her career was "just" a job because he felt she wasn't prioritizing him, married Emily after knowing her less than four months and then said another woman's name at the altar, and he cheated on Bonnie with Rachel. Not to mention the Vegas marriage disaster and his relationship with like a nineteen year old student.

He married the first woman he ever loved. Again, I ask what's wrong with that? He loved her and absolutely wanted to spend the rest of his life with her. They broke up - due to no fault of Ross - because Carol was gay (and cheated on him.) I don't really count him cheating on Julie or Bonnie. It was one kiss with Rachel before he ended things with Julie. And to paraphrase Rachel when she was talking about her relationship with Paolo, Bonnie and Ross was barely a relationship and mostly meaningless sex. The show did not portray that two episode relationship as some deep, monogamous relationship. Getting married really early to Emily clearly didn't work out but getting married fast isn't a bad thing, either.

 

3 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

I think you underplay the impact of Carol cheating on and dumping him. I think that caused a lot of his trust issues. How could it not, when you find out the person you wanted to spend your life with cheated on you and is leaving you for that person?

This is something I have always found maddening. The whole situation with Carol and Ross and Susan was handled weirdly. Even though they were supporting characters I think we were always supposed to be on Carol and Susan's side when they were the ones in the wrong. I feel a lot of sympathy for Carol being unable to come out because of her parents disapproval (as we saw in TOW the Lesbian Wedding) and probably other various reasons. It's obviously not an easy situation to deal with, but she still cheated on Ross and blindsided him when she left. Despite that, Ross is treated like he's unreasonable when he doesn't want to go to their wedding and when he is unwilling to treat Susan as an equal co-parent. I don't know how long Carol and Susan's affair lasted, but they weren't together that long when Carol got pregnant and yet Susan acted like she should be treated equally to Ross and we were supposed to think that was perfectly reasonable. I watch all the Thanksgiving episodes every year and I hate in TOW Underdog Got Away that Susan had to be involved in the moment Ross feels the baby kick for the first time. I wanted Ross to have a moment that was just his instead of Susan having to be a part of it as well.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

This is something I have always found maddening. The whole situation with Carol and Ross and Susan was handled weirdly. Even though they were supporting characters I think we were always supposed to be on Carol and Susan's side when they were the ones in the wrong. I feel a lot of sympathy for Carol being unable to come out because of her parents disapproval (as we saw in TOW the Lesbian Wedding) and probably other various reasons. It's obviously not an easy situation to deal with, but she still cheated on Ross and blindsided him when she left. Despite that, Ross is treated like he's unreasonable when he doesn't want to go to their wedding and when he is unwilling to treat Susan as an equal co-parent. I don't know how long Carol and Susan's affair lasted, but they weren't together that long when Carol got pregnant and yet Susan acted like she should be treated equally to Ross and we were supposed to think that was perfectly reasonable. I watch all the Thanksgiving episodes every year and I hate in TOW Underdog Got Away that Susan had to be involved in the moment Ross feels the baby kick for the first time. I wanted Ross to have a moment that was just his instead of Susan having to be a part of it as well.

It was maddening how they acted like Susan was equal parent to Ross and Carol. No, she is the step parent.  She should not have equal rights to name the child, etc.  

[Bort]

3 minutes ago, deaja said:

It was maddening how they acted like Susan was equal parent to Ross and Carol. No, she is the step parent.  She should not have equal rights to name the child, etc.  

Oh, Susan trying to get her last name in there on a hyphen infuriated me. Ben was always subsequently credited as Ben Gellar, so I guess Ross ended up winning on that point. 

[slf]

6 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

I think you underplay the impact of Carol cheating on and dumping him. I think that caused a lot of his trust issues. How could it not, when you find out the person you wanted to spend your life with cheated on you and is leaving you for that person?

Also; you mention the times he cheats on women with Rachel. What about Rachel's part in that? She only ever goes after Ross when he's with other women... I mean she goes to London intending to tell him she loves him on his wedding day to Emily! It takes two to tango, after all, and it's not like she didn't know he was involved with another woman...

While it's true that things we've experienced can negatively impact our relationships, Ross' decision to cheat on some of his girlfriends or to speak disparagingly about the work of another is up to him. Trust issues, in my opinion, didn't play much of a role in Ross' failed relationships. Ross and Rachel's relationship failed for a number of reasons of which trust was only one. Trust had nothing to do with why his relationships with Bonnie, Julie, Mona, and Emily ultimately imploded.

As for Rachel- so what? My post is about Ross. Despite how he sometimes acted on the show, Ross was a grown man entirely responsible for his own actions. I don't believe women are filthy harlots who entice men into cheating on their girlfriends or wives. Ross made a choice, more than once, to step out on the person he was with.

2 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

What's wrong with that? I think a good chunk of people get married because they want to settle down with the people they love. It's not a flaw that someone wants a traditional life and the kind they had when they were growing up.

He married the first woman he ever loved. Again, I ask what's wrong with that? He loved her and absolutely wanted to spend the rest of his life with her. They broke up - due to no fault of Ross - because Carol was gay (and cheated on him.) I don't really count him cheating on Julie or Bonnie. It was one kiss with Rachel before he ended things with Julie. And to paraphrase Rachel when she was talking about her relationship with Paolo, Bonnie and Ross was barely a relationship and mostly meaningless sex. The show did not portray that two episode relationship as some deep, monogamous relationship. Getting married really early to Emily clearly didn't work out but getting married fast isn't a bad thing, either.

There's nothing wrong with hoping to find the right person and to get married someday. But there most certainly is a problem when someone Just Wants To Be Married. (In my experience people who are in love with love, prefer to be in relationships, or Just Want To Be Married, are people who don't know how to be happy when single for extended periods of time. They often rush into ill-advised relationships or implode the ones they're in and they don't often choose partners who want the same things as they do.) Marrying the first person you've ever been in a serious relationship with is going to end in heartbreak a lot of the time, especially if you became involved young. One of the biggest predictors of divorce among het marriages is age. If the relationship began when either or both was under 25 then there's a high chance of divorce because most people don't want at 35 what they wanted at 19 or 20. People learn about relationships and what it takes to make them work over time, by having them. Yes, lots of people do get married young and/or to the first person they've been in a serious (or any) relationship with, and many of those people get divorced. For some it might work but it didn't work out for Ross, obviously. For Ross, this clearly wasn't the way to go.

I disagree that kissing Rachel because he had feelings for her and wanted to be with her isn't cheating. How does that work? Either he was in a monogamous relationship with Julie and then with Bonnie or he wasn't and he clearly was. He stepped out on both. Rachel's dismissive opinion of Bonnie is irrelevant, not least of all because we know her opinion was motivated out of jealousy and anger.

As for Emily, yikes. One of two things happened there: either Ross still had feelings for Rachel, in which case marrying Emily after less than four months of knowing her was a huge obvious mistake, or Emily was a very controlling person and perhaps, just perhaps, Ross might have found that out had he not married her in under 70 days of knowing her. Maybe taking things more slowly might have worked out better for him.

Edited December 30, 2019 by slf

[MadyGirl1987]

5 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

This is something I have always found maddening. The whole situation with Carol and Ross and Susan was handled weirdly. Even though they were supporting characters I think we were always supposed to be on Carol and Susan's side when they were the ones in the wrong. I feel a lot of sympathy for Carol being unable to come out because of her parents disapproval (as we saw in TOW the Lesbian Wedding) and probably other various reasons. It's obviously not an easy situation to deal with, but she still cheated on Ross and blindsided him when she left. Despite that, Ross is treated like he's unreasonable when he doesn't want to go to their wedding and when he is unwilling to treat Susan as an equal co-parent. I don't know how long Carol and Susan's affair lasted, but they weren't together that long when Carol got pregnant and yet Susan acted like she should be treated equally to Ross and we were supposed to think that was perfectly reasonable. I watch all the Thanksgiving episodes every year and I hate in TOW Underdog Got Away that Susan had to be involved in the moment Ross feels the baby kick for the first time. I wanted Ross to have a moment that was just his instead of Susan having to be a part of it as well.

 

5 hours ago, deaja said:

It was maddening how they acted like Susan was equal parent to Ross and Carol. No, she is the step parent.  She should not have equal rights to name the child, etc.  

 

5 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Oh, Susan trying to get her last name in there on a hyphen infuriated me. Ben was always subsequently credited as Ben Gellar, so I guess Ross ended up winning on that point. 

Am I the only one who thinks Ben might not have been such an”oops” baby as it might seem? That maybe Carol was trying to get pregnant before she left Ross? Carol and Susan just go all in on “our baby” and I know it’s TV, but it seems so quick and easily accepted that, “yeah we just moved in together but are raising this child from a precious marriage together.”

[Bort]

1 minute ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

Am I the only one who thinks Ben might not have been such an”oops” baby as it might seem? That maybe Carol was trying to get pregnant before she left Ross? Carol and Susan just go all in on “our baby” and I know it’s TV, but it seems so quick and easily accepted that, “yeah we just moved in together but are raising this child from a precious marriage together.”

Considering that Susan pretty clearly would’ve rather not had Ross involved at all, in vitro would’ve been the way to go if she and Carol were purposely wanting to have a baby together. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

On 12/30/2019 at 3:19 PM, kariyaki said:

Oh, Susan trying to get her last name in there on a hyphen infuriated me. Ben was always subsequently credited as Ben Gellar, so I guess Ross ended up winning on that point. 

Ugh, I forgot she wanted to get her last name in there. So annoying.

 

22 hours ago, slf said:

There's nothing wrong with hoping to find the right person and to get married someday. But there most certainly is a problem when someone Just Wants To Be Married. (In my experience people who are in love with love, prefer to be in relationships, or Just Want To Be Married, are people who don't know how to be happy when single for extended periods of time. They often rush into ill-advised relationships or implode the ones they're in and they don't often choose partners who want the same things as they do.) Marrying the first person you've ever been in a serious relationship with is going to end in heartbreak a lot of the time, especially if you became involved young. One of the biggest predictors of divorce among het marriages is age. If the relationship began when either or both was under 25 then there's a high chance of divorce because most people don't want at 35 what they wanted at 19 or 20. People learn about relationships and what it takes to make them work over time, by having them. Yes, lots of people do get married young and/or to the first person they've been in a serious (or any) relationship with, and many of those people get divorced. For some it might work but it didn't work out for Ross, obviously. For Ross, this clearly wasn't the way to go.

I think you're oversimplifying a lot of this. These situations aren't black and white. I don't think Ross started the series as someone who Just Wants To Be Married and he certainly didn't end the series that way (after Emma was born his suggestion to Rachel was just to "start things up again" not to get married.) Just because he told Rachel once that he wanted to settle down and have the kind of upbringing he did, doesn't mean he wanted to get married just to get married.

People CAN learn about relationships by having multiple relationships, but it's not a requirement. And I'm speaking from experience. I got married to the first person I was in a real relationship and I'm happy. Sure, I could have learned about relationships by playing the field but I didn't need to. Other than the requirement in most states to be 18 to get married, you can get married at whatever age you want. To use the cliche, age is nothing but a number. There are some 21 year-olds who are definitely way too immature to get married and some who are old souls or mature enough to get married. 

So, yeah getting married young can lead to divorce but a lot of times it doesn't. For Ross, it didn't work out but because - a reason you keep entirely glossing over - that his wife turned out to be gay. It's not about Ross being too young or not knowing her for long enough (they were together for seven years) but because of something he had no control over.

23 hours ago, slf said:

I disagree that kissing Rachel because he had feelings for her and wanted to be with her isn't cheating. How does that work? Either he was in a monogamous relationship with Julie and then with Bonnie or he wasn't and he clearly was. He stepped out on both. Rachel's dismissive opinion of Bonnie is irrelevant, not least of all because we know her opinion was motivated out of jealousy and anger.

I never said anything about Rachel's dismissive opinion of Bonnie. I just paraphrased her talking about her relationship with Paolo to describe how I saw Bonnie and Ross's relationship. And, again, I think you're oversimplifying. It's not an either/or where he had to be in a monogamous relationship. There are people who are in open relationships who would not consider their partner kissing someone else to be cheating. Also, when you first begin dating someone, it's not automatically immediate that it's an exclusive relationship, unless you have that conversation that you don't want to date anyone else. For Bonnie and Ross they weren't together that long and the show didn't portray it as a serious relationship.

Julie and Ross on the other hand were a serious couple and he did technically cheat on her by kissing Rachel, but I still don't see it as that big a deal. First, because it's a sitcom we're talking about. But even in real life, sharing one kiss with another person is not a hugely unforgivable act to me. If someone breaks up with someone because they kissed someone else that's totally their right, but I would easily understand it if they were able to get over it fairly quickly. And with Julie (and Bonnie) Ross pretty much broke up with them immediately after he kissed Rachel. He didn't sleep with someone else or carry out some long drawn-out affair.

23 hours ago, slf said:

As for Emily, yikes. One of two things happened there: either Ross still had feelings for Rachel, in which case marrying Emily after less than four months of knowing her was a huge obvious mistake, or Emily was a very controlling person and perhaps, just perhaps, Ross might have found that out had he not married her in under 70 days of knowing her. Maybe taking things more slowly might have worked out better for him.

As for Emily, again it's not a black and white situation. There aren't only two possibilities for what happened. Maybe taking his time would have worked out better, but getting married impulsively because he fell in love isn't some huge character flaw. 

 

23 hours ago, slf said:

Ross and Rachel's relationship failed for a number of reasons of which trust was only one. Trust had nothing to do with why his relationships with Bonnie, Julie, Mona, and Emily ultimately imploded.

Trust might have been only one of the reasons he and Rachel broke up but it was one of the main issues and can't just be swept aside because there were other problems as well. And you're wrong about why his relationships with Mona and Emily ended - trust issues definitely played a huge part. After Ross said Rachel's name at the altar, Emily said she would try to forgive him but, ultimately, she admitted she just couldn't trust him so they both realized it wouldn't work without trust. And with Mona, he lied to her multiple times and she couldn't trust him so they broke up.

[Madding crowd]

Ross kissing Rachel while dating Bonnie ( and he was never serious about her nor she about him), was no different than Chandler kissing Joey’s girlfriend Kathy or Phoebe kissing David while she was dating Mike. I don’t see Ross as some kind of awful person. People have arguments and sometimes say mean things. One of the things I liked about Friends was that it showed relationships honestly, not in a sitcom bubble.

I am in the same age group as the Friends and it seemed honest to me about dating and about navigating life in your 20’s and early 30’s. And it was a comedy so things were played for laughs.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Madding crowd

[slf]

@FilmTVGeek80 Look, I get it. You, for some reason, took my criticism of Ross personally. But here's the thing: these things that Ross did that I criticized? Didn't work out for him. Ross' approach to relationships was deeply flawed (and something of a long-running joke on the show). Don't date a student. Be upfront about the fact you're living with your baby momma, why you're doing that, etc. Don't share deep, meaningful kisses with a woman you've had feelings for since you were 17/18 years old when you're involved with someone else. Say the right name at the altar. And, as I said in my original post: I don't believe that Ross' desire for a relationship is some kind of virtue or an appealing trait as I have often seemed claimed. Which was my point.

Monica's most overrated trait was her OCD. While they'd sometimes play it up I didn't think it was so outlandish. Put the caps back on pens, please use coasters and don't put your feet on the table, don't get crumbs all over the floor, etc. Her 'quirks' were, for the most part, reasonable. Perhaps not fun but certainly not outlandish. I'd consider Joey and Chandler's super lax approach to be weirder (throwing wet paper towels at the wall, intentionally dropping spaghetti in the floor, etc). The eleven towel categories was nuts, tho.

[falltime]

I had made a goal in december to finish watching the series on Netflix before they took it off but I failed. I left off somewhere in season 7.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, falltime said:

I had made a goal in december to finish watching the series on Netflix before they took it off but I failed. I left off somewhere in season 7.

Same except I only made it partway through Season 6. 😞

I don't think we know for sure that Ross cheated on Bonnie because I don't think we heard that they were exclusive. With Julie, it seems more concrete to me that they had committed to each other.

[slf]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

Same except I only made it partway through Season 6. 😞

I don't think we know for sure that Ross cheated on Bonnie because I don't think we heard that they were exclusive. With Julie, it seems more concrete to me that they had committed to each other.

True. I just always assume it was cheating in that instance based on Ross' reactions in that episode. He made sure to hide it from Bonnie while he tried to make up his mind which wouldn't really have been necessary if he and Bonnie weren't exclusive, I thought.

[wendyg]

On 12/31/2019 at 10:06 PM, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I don't think Ross started the series as someone who Just Wants To Be Married

To be precisely accurate, in the pilot Ross actually says, "I just want to be married again," a split second before Rachel bursts through the Central Perk door in her bridal dress. However, I think we're meant to understand that he wants his *marriage to Carol* back.

[Jax7917]

11 hours ago, slf said:

True. I just always assume it was cheating in that instance based on Ross' reactions in that episode. He made sure to hide it from Bonnie while he tried to make up his mind which wouldn't really have been necessary if he and Bonnie weren't exclusive, I thought.

I wouldn’t say he cheated on Bonnie . It was clear they Didn’t have a serious relationship . It was a fling . I think he just felt awkward because they were away together for the weekend , so he didn’t know what to do with her . 

[Hiyo]

I just remember loving the Rachel/Ross/Bonnie cliff-hanger at the time, and having to wait the whole summer to find out...

[CaliforniaLove]

In the episode where Ross & Mike have that awkward hangout at Ross's, why wouldn't they have just turned on the TV?

[voiceover]

Fiddling about with entertainment themed lists (eh, it's a thing), and I came up with my favorite line for each character:

1. Monica [to Chandler in TOW The Girl Who Hits Joey]: "Two divorces and Joey?"

2. Rachel [to Ross in TOT Could Have Been]: "Do marriage vows mean squat to you people?"

3. Phoebe: [to Ross in The 100th Episode] "I don't see three kids coming out of *your vagina!"

4. Ross:  [to himself as the kitchen timer dings, in TOW Ross is Fine] "I don't even know what that's for!"

5. Joey: [to Chandler in TOW The Late Thanksgiving] "That's some gentle comedy, dude."

6. Chandler: [to Joey in TOW The Videotape] "Get there faster!!!"

[Rockstar99435]

My favorite Rachel will always be "Oh yeah? Beth dies."

It's not only the line, but the smug way she delivers it. She knows she has the trump card and she's just pissed enough to use it. 

[Hiyo]

Yeah, sometimes it's the delivery, not just line.

Phoebe's "Hey, that's not for you, bitch!" always cracks me up.

[Rose Quartz]

1 hour ago, Rockstar99435 said:

My favorite Rachel will always be "Oh yeah? Beth dies."

It's not only the line, but the smug way she delivers it. She knows she has the trump card and she's just pissed enough to use it. 

Joey's horrified reaction was also a classic.

[Ms Blue Jay]

While Ross and Chandler are booksmart  [ Chandler is "sarcastic smart", all of his humour is based on seeing himself as somewhat superior and pointing out everyone else's foibles, he likes irony, etc. -  and Ross is nerdy/booksmart ] - Joey is street smart.  He also has emotional intelligence that Chandler lacks.  Remember, Chandler can't cry?  Joey does not have this issue. I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this.  He's savvy, he's charismatic and charming, he knows how to get what he wants, and he's good with women AND men.  Ross and Chandler are good with neither.  The show illustrated this often.   (Of course, Joey could easily be outsmarted - for example, when he's robbed in the TV stand - but still, he is the "smartest" of the three men when it comes to certain things that Ross and Chandler fail at over and over again.)  Chandler and Ross recognize this also and sometimes have to go to Joey for advice, especially for anything related to women.

I think calling Joey the hot one and Chandler the funny one oversimplifies things.  While yes, they are hot and funny, I do think they are both intelligent in different ways.  Joey is also an incredible friend and rarely fails on that front.  While Chandler 'failed' with Kathy, Joey 'failed' with the TV stand incident but totally unintentionally.

I seem to find Rachel smarter than others here.  

"Friends" still appears to be on Netflix Canada.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Danny Franks]

9 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

While Ross and Chandler are booksmart  [ Chandler is "sarcastic smart", all of his humour is based on seeing himself as somewhat superior and pointing out everyone else's foibles, he likes irony, etc. -  and Ross is nerdy/booksmart ] - Joey is street smart.  He also has emotional intelligence that Chandler lacks.  Remember, Chandler can't cry?  Joey does not have this issue. I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this.  He's savvy, he's charismatic and charming, he knows how to get what he wants, and he's good with women AND men.  Ross and Chandler are good with neither.  The show illustrated this often.   (Of course, Joey could easily be outsmarted - for example, when he's robbed in the TV stand - but still, he is the "smartest" of the three men when it comes to certain things that Ross and Chandler fail at over and over again.)  Chandler and Ross recognize this also and sometimes have to go to Joey for advice, especially for anything related to women.

I really appreciated when Joey would be like 'why is this so difficult for you? Are you dumb?' over a relationship issue that one of the others was having. It was a nice reversal from the usual dynamic, and showed that he definitely had areas of expertise that the others lacked.

You're right, it all did seem very easy for him, and that was the basis of a lot of the jokes about Chandler and Ross being bad with women (though given Ross's run of incredibly attractive girlfriends, you'd think he'd be a bit more confident in his abilities).

But as I've said before, early Joey was far smarter than late Joey. He was lacking in education, and not well read or informed, but he wasn't an idiot. I've used this example before, but one of my favourite Joey bits is when Chandler lets slip that Ross is in love with Rachel, and Joey realises what he's said before anyone else does. He sits back, looking horrified, before Chandler has even finished speaking. Season Ten Joey would have just sat there with a dumb look on his face for five seconds, while everyone else reacted.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yes, Joey of Season 1 was allowed to make sarcastic, ironic, witty remarks.  That was deleted once Season 2 rolled around.

[Hiyo]

To be fair, it is common for some characters as shows go on to become more extreme versions of themselves. It wasn't just Joey, Monica's OCD and cleanliness became much more extreme over the years.

It happened on other shows too, like the Golden Girls and Seinfeld.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Season Ten Joey would have just sat there with a dumb look on his face for five seconds, while everyone else reacted.

Season Ten Joey would have said "Duh.... which one is Rachel?" 

 

[WendyCR72]

Some sad news to report: Stan Kirsch, best known as Richie from Highlander and Monica's much-younger boyfriend in the S1 episode, "The One With the Ick Factor", has died. He was only 51.

Cause of death was suicide.  😞

[Mr. Meatball Man]

On 1/13/2020 at 3:23 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Yes, Joey of Season 1 was allowed to make sarcastic, ironic, witty remarks.  That was deleted once Season 2 rolled around.

They had him ask, "Was 'Egg the Gellers' the war cry of your neighborhood?" in season three. It doesn't even sound like something you would hear Joey saying, but that highlights the difference between his character in the earlier seasons and his character in the later seasons.

I don't know if there was a moment where he shifted exactly, but I think they started to exaggerate him gradually after season three and he became almost cartoonish in the last two seasons. One of my least favorite plots in the series is when he has to convince Chandler and Monica to let him write them a letter of recommendation for the adoption agency. They portray him as so stupid in that episode, you can't take him seriously. Chandler and Monica have absolutely no faith in him, he doesn't know what a thesaurus is, and his writing ability is literally the same as a small child's. It's just a watered down version of when he became the minister for Chandler and Monica's wedding, except there, he was portrayed as having the potential to actually do a really good job.

[Ms Blue Jay]

There's also "Paper, snow, a ghost!"  and then Joey tries to speak French.  LOL.  Lowest points of the series.  He's Italian for christ's sakes of course he knows what the French language is.  Ugh!

[Bort]

Season 1 Joey was still no Rhodes scholar. He thought omnipotence was impotence. 

[Inquisitionist]

17 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Some sad news to report: Stan Kirsch, best known as Richie from Highlander and Monica's much-younger boyfriend in the S1 episode, "The One With the Ick Factor", has died. He was only 51.

Cause of death was suicide.  😞

Aw, that's sad.  While he was very young looking on Friends, it's interesting that he was actually a bit older than Jennifer Aniston and Matthew Perry, the youngest cast members.

[princelina]

On 1/13/2020 at 11:50 AM, Danny Franks said:

I really appreciated when Joey would be like 'why is this so difficult for you? Are you dumb?' over a relationship issue that one of the others was having. It was a nice reversal from the usual dynamic, and showed that he definitely had areas of expertise that the others lacked.

You're right, it all did seem very easy for him, and that was the basis of a lot of the jokes about Chandler and Ross being bad with women (though given Ross's run of incredibly attractive girlfriends, you'd think he'd be a bit more confident in his abilities).

But as I've said before, early Joey was far smarter than late Joey. He was lacking in education, and not well read or informed, but he wasn't an idiot. I've used this example before, but one of my favourite Joey bits is when Chandler lets slip that Ross is in love with Rachel, and Joey realises what he's said before anyone else does. He sits back, looking horrified, before Chandler has even finished speaking. Season Ten Joey would have just sat there with a dumb look on his face for five seconds, while everyone else reacted.

Ross could get attractive girlfriends - he just couldn't keep them 😄 

My favorite Joey moment is in TOW The Videotape when Ross tells Joey "If you ever need any help with the ladies" and Joey's hilarious face as he says "Thanks man, I appreciate it" 😂

[Chas411]

“The sky’s blue Ross and I had sex yesterday”

 

[Mr. Meatball Man]

Does "The One in Massapequa" feel like a season one episode to anyone else? I don't know why, but the plot with Phoebe's boyfriend makes it feel like a throwback. Especially the scene where they're all making fun of Parker.

[Inquisitionist]

10 hours ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

Does "The One in Massapequa" feel like a season one episode to anyone else? I don't know why, but the plot with Phoebe's boyfriend makes it feel like a throwback. Especially the scene where they're all making fun of Parker.

I see what you mean in that it kind of harked back to the one with Fisher Stevens as Phoebe's annoying psychoanalyst boyfriend.  But Rachel wasn't pregnant in S1.  😉

[princelina]

15 hours ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

Does "The One in Massapequa" feel like a season one episode to anyone else? I don't know why, but the plot with Phoebe's boyfriend makes it feel like a throwback. Especially the scene where they're all making fun of Parker.

Someone asked earlier about episodes where you're only in it for one storyline - I love Phoebe/Parker but couldn't care less about Monica's toast (it actually is embarrassing to watch) OR Ross and Rachel's gift grubbing!

[Ms Blue Jay]

The Parker storyline was wonderful.  Too bad I hate Alec Baldwin now.  But yeah that's a funny episode.

[readster]

On 1/14/2020 at 8:32 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

There's also "Paper, snow, a ghost!"  and then Joey tries to speak French.  LOL.  Lowest points of the series.  He's Italian for christ's sakes of course he knows what the French language is.  Ugh!

Oh that was so horrible, including hearing the Rosetta Stone tapes and still couldn't even REPEAT what they were saying. It was sooooo bad, plus I've seen Le Mis many times, the use of the French language is like... 3 lines. You can fake that even on Broadway. The story made NO SENSE!