S02.E02: Primal Urges

[SmithW6079]

1 hour ago, Jacks-Son said:

Imagine,  you're with your 14 year old niece , watching an episode of "The Orville" and you hear a kid call his friend's mother a "pain in the ass", or you hear Kelly say, "What a dick!", or a watch as a husband murders his spouse because he wants a divorce,  or a crew member using the holodeck for some intimacy and the scenes are scantily clad holographic Moclans rubbing another practically nude Moclan's chest suggestively.  You're cool with it, or perhaps, your sibling, would be cool with their 14 yr old daughter watching it?   But.but....it said,  TV-14! Oh,  parent says,  then it's perfectly cool!  Is that the scenario you expect? 

Have you seen a PG-13 movie lately? There's nothing in "The Orville" that would have been out of place. Now that you know what TV-14 entails, you can make your parenting decisions accordingly.

Edited January 6, 2019 by SmithW6079

[Danielg342]

Maybe it's just me, but when I was 14, I could watch a sexy scene or hear someone on TV call someone else a "pain in the ass" and understand the context, knowing full well that in my personal life I may not be able to recreate those moments.

Heck, I was 10 and I watched Wayne's World without issue.

Also, and to be frank, if you think 14-year-olds today (or in the yesteryear) have no idea how sex works or don't know any dirty words (let alone use those words), you're badly mistaken. 14-year-olds are much closer to adults in terms of comprehension and understanding than they are to kids...there's a reason why people as young as 12 (in Canada, at least) can be tried for crimes because it's understood they actually know the difference between right and wrong.

I could go on a rant that says teens' real struggles are coming to terms with their new reality and fully appreciating that they're no longer kids but adults whose decisions actually have consequences, but that's a whole other debate that doesn't belong here. Truth is, knowing my own experience, I wouldn't be afraid of a teen watching The Orville because I'm sure they would understand it's just a story. Of course, I grant every teenager is different so I would leave it to individual parents to know what their teen is and isn't capable of watching, though if I had to generalize, I'd do it in favour of The Orville.

[Jacks-Son]

Why is there a comparison between a PG-13 movie and a PG-13 TV episode. They are not equivalent. One, you pay to go see, the other is aired in your home.

My sons are in their 30's and listen to rap music with graphic language.  (no discussions  please, I'm just trying to make my point)That's their perogative and they have no qualms with allowing their kids to hear rap music with foul language and even worse descriptions of what male/female acts will happen next. Although I may cringe, it's their kids to raise as they want. However, if the kids are left in my care, I don't follow my sons' tolerance. My sons know their Dad is a square and lame or whatever they think of me and they know when they leave their kids with me that GrandPa is not going to get "Jiggy With It". See, lame and square.

[meatball77]

Both episodes were just fine for teens or even tweens.  The first episode would have a nice way to start a discussion on peer pressure with teens or tweens.  The second episode would be a good one to start a discussion on porn (which is a topic that parents should be discussing with their teens and tweens).
 

It sounds like your idea of appropriate is the Disney channel.  Perhaps you should just stick with childrens shows that or preview all media first with your grandkids.  It's 2018, we don't pretend that we live in the Cleaver household anymore.

[Jacks-Son]

10 minutes ago, meatball77 said:

It's 2018, we don't pretend that we live in the Cleaver household anymore.

Ooh boy.  I'm going to keep my mouth shut after this.  Yes,  let's discuss pornography with our teens and tweens.  What sort of pornography should we discuss?  Is everything fair game or because this is only 2019 should we limit ourselves to what's acceptable in this day & age? 

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Why is there a comparison between a PG-13 movie and a PG-13 TV episode. They are not equivalent. One, you pay to go see, the other is aired in your home.

Have you ever watched "Family Guy"?  That's also created by Seth McFarland and is arguably much worse than this show with regard to adult content, and that's rated TV-14 too.

But I get why you're concerned.  I grew up in NYC and over 40 years ago regularly hung out in Greenwich Village with my parents as my Dad worked there, so I saw it all by the age of 14 with regard to gay sex, free love, etc.  So I'm remarkably accepting of lifestyles, and yet I STILL get where you're coming from with this.  I think the show should probably issue a warning before and during certain episodes (like this one), especially if they're going to do stuff like mention "toilet cams", which I swear even my HUSBAND didn't know what that was, LOL.  Either they should issue a warning or re-rate certain episodes as TV-MA (mature audiences).   Not every parent wants to expose their kids to certain subjects like porn before a certain age so they should have the opportunity to know what they're getting into before they let their kids watch it.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Yeah No
Clarity and grammar as usual.

[Jacks-Son]

5 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Have you ever watched "Family Guy"?  That's also created by Seth McFarland and is arguably much worse than this show with regard to adult content, and that's rated TV-14 too.

LOL,  this is probably no surprise,  coming from someone who should restrict their watching to the Disney Channel,  which I will watch once they start airing Marvel's Superheroes shows,  but both my brother and my youngest son time their Sundays around "Family Guy" and have been making it their mission to have me sit and watch it with them.   I did see one episode,  and it had some Michael J. Fox guy writing his name on a blackboard and because of his Parkinson's his handwriting was very disjointed. I found that depiction so insulting and derisive,  that I refused to continue the episode and I haven't watched another since.  So,  yes,  I know it can get worse and when it is,  I just don't watch it. 

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

Have you seen a PG-13 movie lately? There's nothing in "The Orville" that would have been out of place. Now that you know what TV-14 entails, you can make your parenting decisions accordingly.

I question whether some of those ratings are handed out appropriately.  I know a lot of parents that wouldn't want their 14 year old to hear about toilet cams.  Obviously parents shouldn't trust those age ratings, but then it becomes hard to figure out whether or not to let one's kids watch a show.  I've come across websites aimed at parents to give them the real scoop on the content of certain shows since the rating system doesn't seem to be of much help.  This page rates the Orville and a lot of the parents' comments say it's not really a family show.

[Yeah No]

10 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

LOL,  this is probably no surprise,  coming from someone who should restrict their watching to the Disney Channel,  which I will watch once they start airing Marvel's Superheroes shows,  but both my brother and my youngest son time their Sundays around "Family Guy" and have been making it their mission to have me sit and watch it with them.   I did see one episode,  and it had some Michael J. Fox guy writing his name on a blackboard and because of his Parkinson's his handwriting was very disjointed. I found that depiction so insulting and derisive,  that I refused to continue the episode and I haven't watched another since.  So,  yes,  I know it can get worse and when it is,  I just don't watch it. 

Well, that show would make "The Orville" seem positively tame by comparison.  It takes a LOT to offend me and that show often goes over my tolerance limit for raunch and poor taste.  Yet I do watch it from time to time because my husband will put it on every once in a while and it is funny.  I just question whether it's good for certain impressionable minds to watch because it can present doing bad things to people like it's OK - It's not even about lifestyles or raunch as much as morality in general. 

[Jacks-Son]

I had read some of the posts at Common Sense media regarding this particular episode and there were some who viewed it very harshly,  mostly Phobes, but I'll check it out and maybe there's a bit less animosity and more constructive criticism. 

[jaigurudeva]

Compared with other TV-14 shows like Riverdale or Arrow, where it can get pretty hot and heavy before cutting away, I thought the "porn scenes" were pretty tame; maybe two kisses total and some idle petting by dudes in trunks. Nothing that will break any 14-year-old's brain these days.

I really liked that there were more rippling effects from Topa's birth and gender assignment. It will be interesting to see more as Topa (quickly) grows up and learns about their past. (Considering Bortus seems to be the first Moclan on the Orville to go back for the Ja'loja, does that make Topa less than a year old and already looking like a 7-year-old human? Edit: Just realized that Moclan years could be much longer than Earth years, for all we know Moclans pee once every 14 Earth years or something, unless this was addressed in the previous episode wherein they went to Moclus.)

Maybe the lottery is meant to be more dispassionate, but I feel like the dying planet's youngest generations should have all gone, with one or two of the most educated adults to pass on the society's history and culture. This would give them the best chance at the survivors reproducing through more of their race's sexual maturity and repopulating faster and more diversely. Also surprised that the race was completely humanoid, given the creativity of the make up department on this show. Maybe they were too busy painting all those Moclans.

Edited January 6, 2019 by jaigurudeva

[MissLucas]

4 hours ago, jaigurudeva said:

 Maybe they were too busy painting all those Moclans.

 

Don't forget creating molds for the porn purveyor costume!

As for the discussion about the soft porn scenes: context matters. Sex scenes in Arrow for example are normally built within what the show considers romances. The scenes here were purely about sexual pleasure without any emotional attachments and I actually thought they were also pandering to a voyeuristic urge (how exactly are the Moclans getting it on - nothing new for this show, remember gelatine sex last season). To some people that makes a difference. YMMV.

Edited January 6, 2019 by MissLucas

[aemom]

17 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

This show may be a bit too mature for the advertised audience rating of TV-14 and air time of 9 PM.  Both season two aired episodes may be unsuitable for an actual 14 year old child.  The premiere episode featured a "little shit" who introduced late high school,  early college level,  aggressively bad behavior – the PITA comment to an adult exhibits disrespectful behavior,  so does stealing alcohol and getting drunk on a holodeck (these areas need to beef up their security - no way should kids be able to sneak in).  Next episode introduces a shit load of adult subjects,  including dereliction of duty to go masturbate,  murder/divorce (in the current age of #MeToo the show chose to posit an extreme solution to marital disagreements - kill your mate in the traditional Moclan's divorce manner).

I'm no prude and I like porn just as much as the next person,  but i don't need to see my characters go in for a physical  and be caressed by the doctor from behind <wink,  wink> and then depart with a satiated smile on their lips.  And before anyone thinks about calling me a homophobe, I will say that being born and growing up in NYC and living 20 years in San Francisco just a few blocks from the Castro district where men walk around wearing chaps with nothing underneath,  I'm too old to be shocked and disturbed by the situation.  Just surprised that the writers felt that these two episodes were suitable for a 14 year old child.  Just an FYI,  my mother took me to see the original "King Kong" (Fay Wray) in the theater, as a very young child and my mother's very good friend was an old,  out Gay guy,  so,  this kind of stuff doesn't shock me,  but then again it may shock my young grandchildren who we've all been trying to caution about unwanted touching. 

What's interesting, is that in Quebec, we have an entirely different rating system:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_motion_picture_rating_system#Quebec_system

It's definitely more lenient than the other system, because I've seen many R rated movies as 13+ here. It used to be even more lenient when i was a kid and the ratings were G, 14, and 18.

At the same time, I haven't seen a commercial for a toy in many years because there are very strict rules about advertising marketed to children. 

Age 14 is really a grey area for me. I realized that when my kids were 14, they knew more about, sex, etc than I thought they did. It's very hard to get most kids to talk about sex because the squirming and discomfort (typically both ways) is awful. The one good thing about a show like this is that it can prompt a discussion about topics that wouldn't normally have a natural jumping off point. We've had quite a few discussions in my house that were started by movies and TV shows. This episode actually brought up a very lively one amongst all family members.

[Raja]

7 hours ago, jaigurudeva said:

 

Maybe the lottery is meant to be more dispassionate, but I feel like the dying planet's youngest generations should have all gone, with one or two of the most educated adults to pass on the society's history and culture. This would give them the best chance at the survivors reproducing through more of their race's sexual maturity and repopulating faster and more diversely. Also surprised that the race was completely humanoid, given the creativity of the make up department on this show. Maybe they were too busy painting all those Moclans.

Maybe if the society as a whole had time to think of it. They had literally minutes of going from certain death with scientific proof, not their religious end times myth and suddenly aliens appear on the radio to offer hope. If they knew for millennium that the end was coming in D minus 3 days the culture probably doesn't have a chivalrous women and children first standard. Thus the universal lottery without the obligatory scene of an elder trying to give his shuttle seat to a kid. There was a Sandra Oh movie about 20 years on this subject and among those Canadians coming to the end, without alien intervention some killed themselves as an act of defiance against mother nature. Others desperately tried to finish their bucket list while others remained at work as their duty to the survivors on the last day. Then the scary part was the rape and murder gangs on the streets doing their thing because there would be no punishment.

[shapeshifter]

14 hours ago, Driad said:

Maybe we need a separate thread for viewer discretion discussion?  This will probably continue in later episodes.

I'm willing and able to start such a thread, but if I do, I will then "report" it requesting that the Mod move posts on the topic of viewer discretion out of this thread and into that thread (which may or may not happen). 
Is that what y'all prefer?

[Ceindreadh]

On 4/1/2019 at 4:21 PM, The Companion said:

Absolutely, though from an HR perspective I supposed the fact that he was off duty (even if he was asking to leave early) is also a mitigating factor. They might have a different opinion had he been on duty. Even then, porn addiction might be treated like any other addiction. I would imagine there might even be protocols in place for use of the holoporn in species who have strong mating seasons/go into heat. A lock is probably going on the maintenance list, though.

 

Did they ever address why he was skivving off early?  I mean, was he originally just planning on using that 15 mins and getting home at his usual time and just kept overrunning?  I know it was partly to highlight to Ed and Kelly that Bortus was behaving out of character but it doesn’t make sense that he’d need to leave early when he was going to be spending hours in there anyway  

 

On 4/1/2019 at 6:45 PM, Cobb Salad said:

Good question.  I was wondering how just anyone could open the panel and put in a disk to run a holodeck program for it not be checked for something like viruses or if it is “Union approved” or whatever.   From having worked for a bunch of companies that issue laptops to their employees I know they tightly control what someone can install on it in order to protect both the laptop, the company network and other company laptops from viruses, etc. I’d think that this type of thinking would exist on the Orville and their other ships.  

Bortus is third in command. He would probably have the authority to approve a non standard piece of software. 

 

On 5/1/2019 at 12:25 AM, marinw said:

The dignity and stoicism of the First Minister crushed me. Although I did wonder if she did rig the lottery to save her family.

I always thought in any such scenario, the children always go first. The remnants of this society must have other sensibilities.

It’s possible they felt it was better to keep families together as much as they could. Rather than send a bunch of kids off with nobody to look after them. 

They should have had some sort of evacuation protocol in place even before the shuttle got there though. Even without the shortened time, they would have still had to split the evacuees up - with no guarantees that the shuttle would be able to return a second time. 

 

It it was also nice and convenient that the survivors were all humanoid. When they couldn’t get video, I was expecting them to land on the planet and discover that they were maybe all giants or some species that they couldn’t fit more than a few people at a time in the shuttle. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Ceindreadh said:

 

Did they ever address why he was skivving off early?  I mean, was he originally just planning on using that 15 mins and getting home at his usual time and just kept overrunning?  I know it was partly to highlight to Ed and Kelly that Bortus was behaving out of character but it doesn’t make sense that he’d need to leave early when he was going to be spending hours in there anyway  

 

Bortus is third in command. He would probably have the authority to approve a non standard piece of software. 

 

It’s possible they felt it was better to keep families together as much as they could. Rather than send a bunch of kids off with nobody to look after them. 

They should have had some sort of evacuation protocol in place even before the shuttle got there though. Even without the shortened time, they would have still had to split the evacuees up - with no guarantees that the shuttle would be able to return a second time. 

 

It it was also nice and convenient that the survivors were all humanoid. When they couldn’t get video, I was expecting them to land on the planet and discover that they were maybe all giants or some species that they couldn’t fit more than a few people at a time in the shuttle. 

Evacuation by who, when the call came in they seemed flabbergasted that there was intelligent life able to travel the stars.

[Ceindreadh]

41 minutes ago, Raja said:

Evacuation by who, when the call came in they seemed flabbergasted that there was intelligent life able to travel the stars.

Yes, but it took several hours to prep the shuttle and fly it to the planet. 

They had at least that much time to do the lottery as to who was going to travel in the first batch of evacuees. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

It it was also nice and convenient that the survivors were all humanoid. When they couldn’t get video, I was expecting them to land on the planet and discover that they were maybe all giants or some species that they couldn’t fit more than a few people at a time in the shuttle. 

Now that you mention it, I hope the show has a more humorous plot in the future in which a shuttle is sent to ferry some people off of a planet in a non-emergency situation and arrives to discover that they are essentially sentient elephants.
So far it seems this is a post-monetary society (yay!), but if there was some reason to want to "earn" extra bitcoins or whatever, I could imagine John and Gordon signing a *sekret* contract to shuttle 100 Elephantians without knowing their size.

Speaking of size and weight WRT this episode and how many they were able to fit on the shuttle (30 of 75), in space, weight shouldn't matter, right?

[Bort]

15 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Speaking of size and weight WRT this episode and how many they were able to fit on the shuttle (30 of 75), in space, weight shouldn't matter, right?

Weight doesn't matter but mass does. You still have the same laws of physics with acceleration and deceleration. More mass means you need more force to stop and go.

[Jacks-Son]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I'm willing and able to start such a thread, but if I do, I will then "report" it requesting that the Mod move posts on the topic of viewer discretion out of this thread and into that thread (which may or may not happen). 
Is that what y'all prefer?

No need to move what's already been written, opinions are on record already.  It should be simpler if the thread was started and people who wanted to address or discuss viewer discretion or not,  can contribute,  observe,  or ignore.  No need to make extra work for the mods.  I have no problem redirecting appropriate comments to the correct feed,  as I'm used to mods reminding me. However,  is this a desirable solution?  It's normal for viewers to disagree on the manner in which a show chooses to present an opinion on a subject. How is this handled on other threads like,  "Game of Thrones"? 

Edited January 6, 2019 by Jacks-Son

[Jacks-Son]

Interesting review that seems to bring up some of the questions a few of us had about this episode:

 

TVFanatic's Orville Season 2, Episode 2, "Primal Urges" Review

[Ubiquitous]

Did they say the bootleg simulator program have a virus or was it poorly-written or of alien design and caused incompatibility problems with the ship?

[Pike Ludwell]

I would like to see Yaphit (that blob of a creature) return. Perhaps there could be an episode focusing on Dr Finn and him trying to have a relationship. (Maybe she realized, after the pheromone episode last season that they have things in common.) Dr. Finn is having difficulty and is feeling very guilty about not being able to like him because of his physical characteristics. They go to a counselor to try to work out the diversity issues. It could be hilarious.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Pat Hoolihan

[Affogato]

I think the things children need to not see or not see alone are things like free scientology lectures, cigarette and coke commercials, things that are entirely meant to manipulate in order to extract loyalty and money. Also things they may identify with too strongly, like children being beaten or raped. 

Im ok with moclan orgies. 

[Affogato]

The Moclan licking Isaac’s head will stick with me. 

It may be that Moclans di not absolutely need to piss off a cliff on their home planet but that it is preferred if it is possible. It may be part of his contract.  “If we can accomodate you...”

I wonder about the privacy settings on the holodecks. They must record like crazy. The decks would be used to perfect dance moves, for trainings, for sports. Murders must happen and accidents. 

 But the feature would embarass people using it, as Bortus did, for sex. Or private  religious ceremonies. Or embarassing wish fulfillment. 

[Dobian]

If I were to pick an episode from the Orville to represent what this show is all about, it would be this one.  Howlingly funny, and an exciting and dramatic finish.

I just knew Seth MacFarlane was going to show what people *really* use those holodecks for, lol.

"He's a glorified speak-and-spell so screw him."

"I went to town on myself this morning"...."This ship is gross"

Moclan divorce, it's a killer.

A ship almost destroyed by a porn virus.

I think the only thing that would have made the episode even more hilarious - but would have ended the series - was if Isaac couldn't stop the virus in time, and the final shot as the ship exploded was the a.i. Moclan licking Isaac's metal bits, lol.

[Ilovepie]

4 hours ago, Dobian said:

"I went to town on myself this morning"...."This ship is gross"

This exchange was hilarious. Also, "I'm Dann"......who is killing it so far this season. I'm a fan of Dann.

I think this is why I like this show so much. The juxtaposition of the horror of the lottery with this dumb stuff on the ship. I actually think that mimics real life. There is a lot of horrible stuff that happens every day both personally and on a larger scale and sometimes you have to find humor in the absurd or daily goings on or you will lose your mind......

[shapeshifter]

36 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

I think this is why I like this show so much. The juxtaposition of the horror of the lottery with this dumb stuff on the ship. I actually think that mimics real life. There is a lot of horrible stuff that happens every day both personally and on a larger scale and sometimes you have to find humor in the absurd or daily goings on or you will lose your mind......

Yes. And it's a very delicate balance.

[legaleagle53]

On 1/6/2019 at 4:41 PM, Ubiquitous said:

Did they say the bootleg simulator program have a virus or was it poorly-written or of alien design and caused incompatibility problems with the ship?

The problem was very clearly identified as a virus.  What IS incomprehensible is why Isaac didn't run a more thorough diagnostic to make sure that the virus had been completely purged from the system before he left the ship.

[Raja]

3 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

The problem was very clearly identified as a virus.  What IS incomprehensible is why Isaac didn't run a more thorough diagnostic to make sure that the virus had been completely purged from the system before he left the ship.

Because Isaac is an arrogant alien. He choose the level of diagnosis needed thus it was good enough. Until facts proved it was not good enough 

[ganesh]

Isn't he just a robot?

[SmithW6079]

On 1/9/2019 at 12:14 PM, ganesh said:

Isn't he just a robot?

I'm sure he'd be insulted by that. He's an artificial being.

I know Dann is played by Mike Henry, who is one of the original "Family Guy" writers (and he was Cleveland), but I really hope they dial him back. He was funny in the elevator scenes between Kelly and Ed  in the episode where the blue alien seduces both Ed and Kelly, but he's too much of a dingus for me to want to watch him on a regular basis or to have him become part of the regular complement of crew. I was surprised that he was on Bortus's staff; I figured he was something in ship's maintenance or something like that.

[legaleagle53]

4 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

I'm sure he'd be insulted by that. He's an artificial being.

I know Dann is played by Mike Henry, who is one of the original "Family Guy" writers (and he was Cleveland), but I really hope they dial him back. He was funny in the elevator scenes between Kelly and Ed  in the episode where the blue alien seduces both Ed and Kelly, but he's too much of a dingus for me to want to watch him on a regular basis or to have him become part of the regular complement of crew. I was surprised that he was on Bortus's staff; I figured he was something in ship's maintenance or something like that.

Yeah, part of what turns me off about Dann is that he comes across as needy, clingy, and desperate. He's trying way too hard to fit in, and his behavior on that disastrous blind date? Yeah, that would be a total red flag for me!

Edited January 13, 2019 by legaleagle53

[lucindabelle]

Does anyone in this universe have transporter technology? The Krill also use shuttles.

[Bort]

21 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

Does anyone in this universe have transporter technology? The Krill also use shuttles.

Those aliens that kidnapped Ed and Kelly for a zoo display had it. But nobody else seems to.

[ganesh]

I hope it stays that way. It can be too much of a plot-out. 

[italianguy626]

3 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Those aliens that kidnapped Ed and Kelly for a zoo display had it. But nobody else seems to.

IIRC, it was mentioned that those aliens were way more advanced in terms of technology and looked down on species not as advanced as they were, so we may never see transporter tech used by the less advanced species.

[tennisgurl]

Been catching up on this show, and I am glad I decided to give it a shot. I have never been a huge Seth McFarland person, but I am enjoying this weird little trek through space (see what I did there?) quite a lot. You can tell the people behind it really love Star Trek and science fiction in general, and its mockery is with affection. This episode is a good example of the show working well, when on paper, it really shouldn't. It can go from wacky alien porn, to full on drama and tearjerking, and actually make it work out. They even tied the plots together pretty well, with Bortus seeing the First Ministers tearful goodbye with her family and her putting them before herself, and realizing that he was throwing away his own family with his porn addiction. It worked way better than it should have.