S01.E09: Rage Against the Machine

[Mu Shu]

21 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

I've been on SS since 2006. Anything I earn reduces my benefits. Maybe your uncle is working under the table?

I assure he isn’t.  He works at Publix part time.  Are we talking SSI?  

But Dan could certainly work at the Lobo and pocket his tips. 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Mu Shu

[Pallas]

If Dan is now on Social Security, but under 66, he can earn up to $1,420/month in addition to his benefits, without penalty. Earnings over that amount reduce his benefit by $1 for every $2 in excess. This holds true only until he turns 66: full retirement age. After that, he can earn any amount without diminishing his Social Security benefit.

But that benefit will probably be between $1,500/$1,750 a month: it's not going to pay all his bills. 

[Mu Shu]

13 minutes ago, Pallas said:

If Dan is now on Social Security, but under 66, he can earn up to $1,420/month in addition to his benefits, without penalty. Earnings over that amount reduce his benefit by $1 for every $2 in excess. This holds true only until he turns 66: full retirement age. After that, he can earn any amount without diminishing his Social Security benefit.

But that benefit will probably be between $1,500/$1,750 a month: it's not going to pay all his bills. 

But a part time job will probably keep him going fine, like my uncle does.   That’s what a lot of seniors in Florida are doing, and living well enough. 

dan is still in construction and struggling to get contracts, and doesn’t look healthy enough for the manual labor he still has to do, even as an owner.  Once he turns 66, he can earn more if he wants or needs to.  Which is where he could use his construction skills to turn his home into an income.  If not renting to his kids, getting tenants.  

Its like there are no options for these people to gain financial security when it’s right underneath their feet, literally.  Hell, Dan could turn the upstairs and the basement into two income units.  That’s how older people in Miami get by, and a lot of them are immigrants without the benefits Dan has.  

[peacheslatour]

Quote

But that benefit will probably be between $1,500/$1,750 a month: it's not going to pay all his bills. 

Especially if he still has a mortgage or two.

[MaryMitch]

In regards to Dan working DJ's job: Do we know that the company didn't hire or contract with Dan to do this? I don't remember anything that would lead me to assume DJ just asked Dan to cover for him without getting approval from the company. Maybe I missed it?

[buckboard]

6 hours ago, eel2178 said:

I've been on SS since 2006. Anything I earn reduces my benefits. Maybe your uncle is working under the table?

Dan -- and EEL2178) -- seem to be under full retirement age (probably 66).  Once you are full retirement age or older (say 66+), you can earn as much as you want and your benefits won't be reduced.

If you start to collect your retirement benefits early, say age 62, then there is a limit to how much you can earn and $1 will be deducted for every $2 you earn over $17,000 (in 2018).  This number changes as you approach full retirement age.
 

If you work and are full retirement age or older, you can earn as much as you want and your benefits will not be reduced. 

[BeachDays]

I still think David and Darlene will eventually get back together-  perhaps stronger than ever.   

[ButterQueen]

I enjoyed the episode.  I love having them back on my TV.  Just seeing their Christmas tree made me happy.  I still have 3 trees up.  🎄🎄🎄

[Pallas]

Please keep episode threads clear of posts that don't refer to the episode or to topics it raises directly. I moved a bunch of posts about the Conners past and present into The Conners Past and Present. 

[andipandi]

On 1/8/2019 at 9:44 PM, Mu Shu said:

This total insistence on poverty porn is old.  

This is the point of the show, and the reality that many people live. Many of us, even if appearing to do well, are all just one paycheck, one slip, one stock market crash, one furlough, away from losing our house, our car, our jobs.

DJ's job: I assumed he was a contractor who could subcontract, and that Dan had done it before, also the company wasn't surprised Dan covered.

Jackie: glad they allowed her to show competence and tough love for Becky, not the usual gilliganing.

[bigskygirl]

On 1/11/2019 at 3:51 PM, iMonrey said:

It also suffers because we aren't sure how much of the original series we are supposed to pretend never happened. Did they never open the Lunchbox? If so, what happened to it? Didn't Dan ever get a job helping to build prisons? If so, what happened to that job? It's one thing to say they made poor choices but clearly we are supposed to ignore a lot of things that went right for them too. And that's what makes it so frustrating. The show asks us to "just go along with it" instead of explaining it, because they don't want to bother. And that? Is just lazy writing.

Dan got the one prison job due to having a minority partner as part of the crew when he applied for the job. He left a good paying city job with decent benefits and a pension to take a job he only got because of Chuck. It was just the one job, and he would still have to submit contracts to get other jobs.

In Darlene's case, she had a decent paying job as a waitress with decent benefits, but she left because of the one guy hitting on her and expect her boss who she is sleeping with to give her benefits. I also do not buy she left Chicago because she wanted to help Dan and Roseanne. She left because she got fired, could not find a job, and had no where else to go. She wanted to make money off of Dan's "accident" at the expense of her brother's job. Dan should not have been working on the machine. It was his own stupidity that got him injured, and he thought he should make money off it it.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Dan got the one prison job due to having a minority partner as part of the crew when he applied for the job. He left a good paying city job with decent benefits and a pension to take a job he only got because of Chuck. It was just the one job, and he would still have to submit contracts to get other jobs.

I agree, it always bugged me that Dan left a good-paying job with security and benefits for another lark. Even if that one job promised a big payday it was still one job. And they were banking on there being more similar jobs based on nothing but speculation. Seemed like a very ill-advised move. (Assuming that's still cannon and ever happened.)

Quote

Dan should not have been working on the machine. It was his own stupidity that got him injured, and he thought he should make money off it it.

I don't know the legal ramifications of Dan subbing in for DJ - we weren't specifically told whether or not the company allowed such a thing. But I disagree it was "stupidity" that got him injured - it was negligence on the part of the company. They're lucky the vending machine didn't topple over onto some little kid and crush him to death since it wasn't properly anchored to the wall.

[andipandi]

When you open the door to a vending machine it becomes much more unstable, weighted toward the front, especially if empty.

[peacheslatour]

21 minutes ago, andipandi said:

When you open the door to a vending machine it becomes much more unstable, weighted toward the front, especially if empty.

Like pulling open all the drawers on a file cabinet. I may or may not have learned this from experience.

[izabella]

Why was Dan doing DJ's job in the first place?  Why wasn't DJ doing it?

[CrystalBlue]

19 minutes ago, izabella said:

Why was Dan doing DJ's job in the first place?  Why wasn't DJ doing it?

DJ was staying home with a cold or the flu, which Mark wanted to stay away from so he wouldn't get sick, and Harris inhaled DJ's scarf hoping she would get sick so she could stay out of school.  Darlene was tending to DJ with an old can of soup that may or may not have been contaminated with food poisoning.

[bigskygirl]

20 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I agree, it always bugged me that Dan left a good-paying job with security and benefits for another lark. Even if that one job promised a big payday it was still one job. And they were banking on there being more similar jobs based on nothing but speculation. Seemed like a very ill-advised move. (Assuming that's still cannon and ever happened.)

I don't know the legal ramifications of Dan subbing in for DJ - we weren't specifically told whether or not the company allowed such a thing. But I disagree it was "stupidity" that got him injured - it was negligence on the part of the company. They're lucky the vending machine didn't topple over onto some little kid and crush him to death since it wasn't properly anchored to the wall.

If you have someone who works on a machine with no training, and he gets injured, I cannot see how it was negligence on the part of the company. It would be like me going to the auto repair shop and trying to work on a vehicle, and I get injured. Would I sue the repair shop because I knew I should not be working on any type of vehicle with absolutely no training. Also I do believe they have been putting warnings on vending machines warning people not to shake them because they can fall over. DJ's boss or supervisor did not cause the machine to topple over. It was Dan not knowing how to work on the machine, and he probably knew shaking the machine could have cause it to tip over.

[andipandi]

He didn't shake it. He opened it to service it, and it wasn't bolted to the wall as it should have been, and became front-heavy.

[Ottis]

So I guess we were the only people who didn't see the last 10ish minutes of this episode because if Trump's speech and the Dem response? We record the show (and just watched it last night) and only made it to the point where they finished the baby shower and the lawyer for Dan came in and sat on their couch. Then it cut off.  We're in the MTZ.

[Annber03]

9 hours ago, Ottis said:

So I guess we were the only people who didn't see the last 10ish minutes of this episode because if Trump's speech and the Dem response? We record the show (and just watched it last night) and only made it to the point where they finished the baby shower and the lawyer for Dan came in and sat on their couch. Then it cut off.  We're in the MTZ.

I'm in the central time zone, and here, the episode aired at 7 pm, and Trump's speech came on at 8. 

[Ottis]

53 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I'm in the central time zone, and here, the episode aired at 7 pm, and Trump's speech came on at 8. 

MT zone is weird. I believe The Connors come on at 8 here. I just know that we lost 10-12 minutes. Weirdly, they started the show from the beginning. They just didn't finish it (or my DVR didn't figure it out). I just wondered if it was just us.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Ottis

[Annber03]

It's a very strange time zone, indeed! I lived in the mountain time zone for a few years, and I remember how it took a while to adjust to shows being on at different times and whatnot :p. 

Anywho, I'm sorry you missed out on some of the show. 

[tessaray]

11 hours ago, Ottis said:

So I guess we were the only people who didn't see the last 10ish minutes of this episode because if Trump's speech and the Dem response? We record the show (and just watched it last night) and only made it to the point where they finished the baby shower and the lawyer for Dan came in and sat on their couch. Then it cut off.  We're in the MTZ.

You can watch for free on Yahoo. It looks like they are a week and a half behind but they do have this one. 

https://view.yahoo.com/show/the-conners/episodes 

[DangerousMinds]

It’s also on Hulu.

[Meushell]

On 1/16/2019 at 5:59 PM, andipandi said:

He didn't shake it. He opened it to service it, and it wasn't bolted to the wall as it should have been, and became front-heavy.

I wonder though, wouldn’t checking to see if it was bolted down, and bolting it if it’s not, be part of the job?

[andipandi]

DJ was pretty clear that already being bolted down during install was supposed to be SOP.

[bigskygirl]

On 1/16/2019 at 6:59 PM, andipandi said:

He didn't shake it. He opened it to service it, and it wasn't bolted to the wall as it should have been, and became front-heavy.

He should not have been trying to service it in the first place because it was not his job, nor did he have the training to do it. 

[Florinaldo]

7 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

He should not have been trying to service it in the first place because it was not his job, nor did he have the training to do it. 

Something Dan should have known immediately since he owns a business and is an employer himself, in the construction industry no less, a field rife with dangerous work situations and workplace accidents. But that was a plot contrivance to make us feel sorry for the Conners' plight as they were being victimized by the Big Bad System. Although Dan was written as having some concept of his shaky legal position in the accident (him being open to a settlement with the company's owner) and Darlene's aggressiveness being the main reason they went forward with the lawyer and started to believe in an unrealistic potential windfall.

The sympathy card did not work with me; I could not even side with Dan when he chastised the lawyer. His character knew the game and yet he let himself fall for an unrealistic hope and he was the one who made impossible promises to his grandkids.

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 1/9/2019 at 5:57 PM, Marley said:

Since when can someone else just do someone else’s job like that when they aren’t employed by that company? That annoyed me and ruined the whole episode for me lol.

I think the only time that’s okay is if someone has a paper route, and his/her mom, dad, sibling, or friend delivers the papers for him/her. 

[Meushell]

On 1/18/2019 at 7:51 AM, andipandi said:

DJ was pretty clear that already being bolted down during install was supposed to be SOP.

It’s supposed to be, but it wasn’t. If vending machine maintenance is his job, then I don’t see how that would not be part of his job. He says he does more than just filling the machines after all. Maybe the issue is that they don’t make it clear what he is supposed to be doing. It sounds to me though like he forgot to tell his dad to check the bolts beforehand, then didn’t want to admit to that after.

[janie jones]

Unless it was a new vending machine on the route, if DJ were checking that they were bolted down himself, he would have noticed before that this one wasn't.

[bigskygirl]

On 1/19/2019 at 5:40 PM, Florinaldo said:

Something Dan should have known immediately since he owns a business and is an employer himself, in the construction industry no less, a field rife with dangerous work situations and workplace accidents. But that was a plot contrivance to make us feel sorry for the Conners' plight as they were being victimized by the Big Bad System. Although Dan was written as having some concept of his shaky legal position in the accident (him being open to a settlement with the company's owner) and Darlene's aggressiveness being the main reason they went forward with the lawyer and started to believe in an unrealistic potential windfall.

The sympathy card did not work with me; I could not even side with Dan when he chastised the lawyer. His character knew the game and yet he let himself fall for an unrealistic hope and he was the one who made impossible promises to his grandkids.

Exactly! Darlene was hoping to get money from the whole thing for her and her two kids. She quits her decent paying job and loses the benefits she was getting and wants Dan to sue so she along with her two kids can benefit from his being hurt along with DJ losing his job. She is a selfish piece of work. Dan should not have been working on the machine in the first place, and the chances of him getting money except for his medical bills would have been slim to nothing along with his lawyer getting more than 50% of any money he would have received.

[CrystalBlue]

9 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

Exactly! Darlene was hoping to get money from the whole thing for her and her two kids. She quits her decent paying job and loses the benefits she was getting and wants Dan to sue so she along with her two kids can benefit from his being hurt along with DJ losing his job. She is a selfish piece of work. Dan should not have been working on the machine in the first place, and the chances of him getting money except for his medical bills would have been slim to nothing along with his lawyer getting more than 50% of any money he would have received.

I found online that the Illinois rate of contingency fees is usually 33% but that there is a cap of 20% on work-related injuries.  But yeah, selfish to try to get money out of Dan's injury.

[Tosia]

On 1/12/2019 at 11:22 PM, CrystalBlue said:

This, plus by the way, DJ has been in therapy for the past two years, per Geena.  DJ touched on his "problems" after coming back from the war zone, but the show didn't put much into that.

I think they will focus on DJ's PTSD next season.  It's a seriously sad hard issue  abd needs to be done justice. 

I read Thank You for Your Service,  and it was horribly depressing how little help the vets get for mental health  issues.  And their families who serve also,  even after the vet is out of active service.  

[bigskygirl]

18 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I found online that the Illinois rate of contingency fees is usually 33% but that there is a cap of 20% on work-related injuries.  But yeah, selfish to try to get money out of Dan's injury.

Would Dan's injury be considered a work-related injury since technically he was not working for the one company?

[CrystalBlue]

56 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

Would Dan's injury be considered a work-related injury since technically he was not working for the one company?

I really don't know.  He would not be covered by Workers' Compensation insurance because he was not an employee.  If there was some independent contractor status of DJ and DJ was allowed to have other people work in lieu of him on a limited basis, then there wouldn't be WC because he's an IC and not covered as an employee.  Basically, the most the contingency fee would have been would be 33% which is the same in California.  I don't know what category the attorney would put him in.  Dan would still have to pay out the expenses back to the attorney though, although that probably wouldn't amount to much.