Avengers: Endgame (2019)

[Danny Franks]

The only problem with Cap's ending was the time travel inconsistency. As I've already said, I'd have had him go back to meet Peggy in the hotel bar in 1945, which wouldn't make Agent Carter non-canon, because they've explained that they're following the divergent timelines theory of time travel. Peggy still gets her happy life, with her non-Steve husband, in the original timeline.

And then, instead of having old man Steve show up, I'd have put a macguffin into the machine that let them see what time someone has gone to. Have Steve not come back, and everyone wonders where he's gone, Bruce says "he's in 1945", and Bucky smiles. Then we cut to Steve reuniting with Peggy.

The shield wouldn't be passed on but that shouldn't be that big a deal. Steve's shield was destroyed anyway.

[Shannon L.]

Did I miss Gamora with the other guardians at Tony's funeral? 

Also, did anyone notice that in one scene, Hulk was serving ice cream and that it was green with chunks of chocolate and in a Ben and Jerry's container?  lol! I looked carefully to see if I could see a bit of the flavor, but if it was there, I couldn't catch it in time.  I still think they missed an advertising opportunity of teaming up with Ben and Jerry's for limited ice cream flavors. 

[Wynterwolf]

9 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I would keep complaining until she would finally just say, “It was supposed to end exactly the way you wanted, but they ran out of film.”

Which is fine, in theory... unless you're part of the fandom that never get's to experience what it's like to be the 'serviced' part, and you're always left with trying to imagine an ending where it does go a way that would be meaningful to you.  

[VCRTracking]

I didn't think about Cap having to put the Aether back into Jane until I saw this on Tumblr:

https://gamerwithamonocle.tumblr.com/post/184522885860/i-mean-for-the-sake-of-continuity-this-had-to

Edited May 3, 2019 by VCRTracking

[scarynikki12]

21 minutes ago, Shannon L. said:

Did I miss Gamora with the other guardians at Tony's funeral? 

She wasn't there.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Shannon L. said:

Did I miss Gamora with the other guardians at Tony's funeral? 

Also, did anyone notice that in one scene, Hulk was serving ice cream and that it was green with chunks of chocolate and in a Ben and Jerry's container?  lol! I looked carefully to see if I could see a bit of the flavor, but if it was there, I couldn't catch it in time.  I still think they missed an advertising opportunity of teaming up with Ben and Jerry's for limited ice cream flavors. 

Gamora wasn’t at the funeral. 

I didn’t catch the ice cream flavor but read somewhere that it was Hunka-Hulka Burning Fudge. I’m not sure if the name was in the movie or if people are just making the assumption based on Infinity War. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Guest

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

Okay, I can work with that image for a sketch. Also: how did Bruce get glasses that big? I mean, maybe the lenses are clear to make him look smart (as opposed to rampaging), but the frames probably took a lot of work.

Speaking of spoiler stuff, Funko is putting out four figures: Pepper as Rescue, Hulk with Starkfinity Gauntlet, and two . . . robust Thors.

He found some vintage frames from the 70s

[festivus]

2 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

Yeah, I mean at this point I think they might even be purposely contradicting themselves, or giving the 'I don't know' or 'I'm not sure' answer, just so it's impossible to created a coherent narrative, kind of like how they used the time travel in the movie to confuse and complicate the plot so in the end, most people are just going, "Oh, fire bad, tree pretty! I cried when Tony died, but Thor was funny, and oh yay, Steve got a happy ending!” 

That's my sons and my husband(even though he grew up reading Marvel comics in the 60's). I'm the only MCU freak in this house like, "but I need it to make sense".  I'm pretty sure they've quit listening to me. 

[VCRTracking]

While the Fandango interview with the screenwriters might have left more questions(going back to get the stones DOES create alternate timelines but Cap going back at the end to be with Peggy  somehow didn't? Huh?), I loved learning this:
 

Quote

Fandango: One of the most memorable lines in the film is Stark's "I love you, three thousand." Where did that come from?

Christopher Markus: Well much as we'd like to take credit for what is inevitably going to be one of the most memorable lines in MCU history, that is something that Robert and his children actually say to each other, and he brought it from real life onto the set.

Stephen McFeely: The script was, "Love you tons. Love you tons." And now it's, "Love you tons. Love you 3000."

Edited May 3, 2019 by VCRTracking

[festivus]

1 hour ago, Dandesun said:

It's nice to know that my family cares about me and my mental state after watching a blockbuster super hero movie. But I do have a tendency to dwell on the things I didn't like as much as opposed to celebrating what I did love. And, honestly, I loved 95% of the movie. I really did.

That's sweet. Mine don't care! Sorry I missed your post when I was posting somehow.

eta: I actually loved the movie too although you wouldn't be able to tell from my whinging on here.  😄 I'll go see it next week and I'm going to just concentrate on all the stuff I love about it.

Edited May 3, 2019 by festivus

[Dandesun]

1 hour ago, Shannon L. said:

Did I miss Gamora with the other guardians at Tony's funeral? 

Also, did anyone notice that in one scene, Hulk was serving ice cream and that it was green with chunks of chocolate and in a Ben and Jerry's container?  lol! I looked carefully to see if I could see a bit of the flavor, but if it was there, I couldn't catch it in time.  I still think they missed an advertising opportunity of teaming up with Ben and Jerry's for limited ice cream flavors. 

It's GOT to be Hulka Hulka Burning Love (I don't remember the exact name of the ice cream) or something along those lines because Dr, Strange and Wong both expressed their preference for the Hulk Ben & Jerry's over the Stark one in Infinity War.

Much to Tony's consternation.

And I am also going to sit here and WONDER about how Bruce/Hulk managed to carve out a life that was celebrated by the public when General Fuckstuck Ross was NOT Snaptured (according to the Word of Gods) and was still around being... you know, HIM.

Or maybe the Snapture made Gen. Ross rethink his entire life and he became, you know, tolerable.

Also, I'm obviously going to see this again but I don't remember seeing Gamora with Thor and the rest of the Guardians at the end, either. My vision was a little blurry and I had two nephews (who I warned before the movie to not talk to me at all during the show) who kept trying to get my attention to say... you know, 8 or 10 year old boy stuff at me.

Okay, since Word of Gods said that Steve created a new timeline by staying (my brother keeps saying 'I want to see THAT movie!' which I can't argue with because Steve taking on McCarthy and Nixon and all that and finding Bucky that much sooner and taking on Hydra that much sooner and then maybe giving T'Challa a call at some point all 'Hey! I'm a friend of yours from another timeline, would you like to hang out some time without a tragic explosion and gross misunderstanding being the cause of our friendship?') but I have to assume that Loki grabbing the Tesseract did the exact same thing. Hell, did future!Cap telling past!Cap that Bucky was still alive splinter off that timeline as well?!

By the way, Loki catching on to the shenanigans there was so delightful.

The point is, I've read comics. I've seen Into the Spider-Verse. I know there are multi-verses (a few of which spawned in this very movie) where I can absolutely have the ending I want.

I also totally squeed when I saw Jarvis. With his 70s hair. God I loved Agent Carter so much.

(Speaking of, I still wonder how compatible Peggy and Steve are in the long run. I truly do. Also, the idea of Steve going back and being Mr. Killjoy Stay At Home while Peggy, Young Howard and Jarvis have adventures galore (throw in Angie and Daniel for good measure...) just doesn't spark joy.

I mean, honestly... Steve, go back and get Natasha. Leave Peggy and her crew alone to have awesome pulpy 1940s fun and return to the future to hang out with your barbershop quartet of idiots.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Dandesun

[raven]

6 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

They should have just said only Tony could steal the stones with his nanotech and transfer it to his suit without Thanos noticing.

This is exactly what I thought happened because of course Tony would put in a smart fail-safe.  So the fact that the Russos say something dumb else about it - STOP! TALKING! <---- directed at the Russos, not you 😉  And I'm someone who is about 99% fine with the movie as a whole.

Quote

Also, I'm obviously going to see this again but I don't remember seeing Gamora with Thor and the rest of the Guardians at the end, either.

She was not with them.  When Thor boards the ship, we see Quill doing a search for her. 

Quote

By the way, Loki catching on to the shenanigans there was so delightful. 

Yes!  Tom Hiddleston's expressions, even with the mouth covering, are on point here.  Loki is nothing if not quick on his feet.

[Sakura12]

18 hours ago, Kromm said:

That's already bullsht, but there's the bigger issue of Aunt May. 

If May WAS snapped, how do they still have an Apartment five years later? 

If May WASN'T snapped, she seems awfully calm and collected to have Peter back after him being DEAD for five years, and all too willing based on the material we've seen from Far From Home to let Peter travel to Europe so soon. And even in this scenario, I'm skeptical she'd be living in the same place and Peter would still aparantly have the same room. 

Some people may have moved on and some people may not have. I could see people staying in the same house for 5 years. It's not like their loved ones were killed. 50% of the population just disappeared. Most probably didn't even know what happened until later when it appears the Avengers told them. May knowing that Peter is Spider-Man and probably thought Tony or the Avengers would find a way to fix it and stayed in her apartment and kept Peter's room the same. Then was probably too tired to move when it looked like they couldn't. 5 years isn't 20 years. That includes aging, most adults don't age that much in 5 years. Tony could've even been paying for May to keep her apartment. 

They might bring up the 5 years in Spider-man Far From Home. They had that scene in the trailer

where Happy comments on May's dress and Peter's confused. That could mean that Happy's been talking to May for the past 5 years enough to know she bought a new dress.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Sakura12

[Raja]

38 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Some people may have moved on and some people may not have. I could see people staying in the same house for 5 years. It's not like their loved ones were killed. 50% of the population just disappeared. Most probably didn't even know what happened until later when it appears the Avengers told them. May knowing that Peter is Spider-Man and probably thought Tony or the Avengers would find a way to fix it and stayed in her apartment and kept Peter's room the same. Then was probably too tired to move when it looked like they couldn't. 5 years isn't 20 years. That includes aging, most adults don't age that much in 5 years. Tony could've even been paying for May to keep her apartment. 

They might bring up the 5 years in Spider-man Far From Home. They had that scene in the trailer where Happy comments on May's dress and Peter's confused. That could mean that Happy's been talking to May for the past 5 years enough to know she bought a new dress. 

And another of the things from the Spider-Man Far From Home trailer

Spoiler

is where Happy was talking to May. In a depressed looking town hall in a benefit for the homeless

. I would speculate that while some places went vacant after the decimation some nicer places eventually got taken over and now the returned are displaced.  San Francisco may have put as much of the missing persons stuff like the van into storage, but did every community?

[MisterGlass]

I have another one for the hanging threads list.

Where has Valkyrie been keeping her winged horse for the last thousand years?

[Dandesun]

8 minutes ago, MisterGlass said:

I have another one for the hanging threads list.

Where has Valkyrie been keeping her winged horse for the last thousand years?

I wondered that, too. But then I was like I DON'T CARE!! FLYING HORSE!!!

I've wanted one since I was 6 so I don't care if that horse has been grazing on starlight in the Horsehead Nebula. It exists and Valkyrie was riding it and it was magical.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Dandesun

[VCRTracking]

Thor: The Dark World is on TV now. I liked it when I came out but watching it in 2019 it's crazy how different the tone is from Ragnarok. They were really going for that very solemn and  formal "Lord of the Rings" vibe. The problem with that is there's a reason Tolkien started with the POV of the Hobbits and not the Elves. One of the things I like about Endgame is seeing Rene Russo as Frigga again and that she could easily interact with the goofier, colloquial sounding Thor of Ragnarok. The scene with her and future Thor was moving and Hemsworth really shows how good a dramatic actor is more than the first two Thor movies.

Also I realized Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch are two of the most powerful people in the MCU because they got infused with energy from Infinity Stones. Jane Foster had an Infinity Stone INSIDE her and got zilch except being treated rudely by Odin!

Edited May 4, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Anduin]

37 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Thor: The Dark World is on TV now. I liked it when I came out but watching it in 2019 it's crazy how different the tone is from Ragnarok. They were really going for that very solemn and  formal "Lord of the Rings" vibe. The problem with that is there's a reason Tolkien started with the POV of the Hobbits and not the Elves. One of the things I like about Endgame is seeing Rene Russo as Frigga again and that she could easily interact with the goofier, colloquial sounding Thor of Ragnarok. The scene with her and future Thor was moving and Hemsworth really shows how good a dramatic actor is more than the first two Thor movies.

Also I realized Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch are two of the most powerful people in the MCU because they got infused with energy from Infinity Stones. Jane Foster had an Infinity Stone INSIDE her and got zilch except being treated rudely by Odin!

Well, there's a story hook for Thor 4. Jane, probably not played by Portman, starts developing powers.

[Danny Franks]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Thor: The Dark World is on TV now. I liked it when I came out but watching it in 2019 it's crazy how different the tone is from Ragnarok. They were really going for that very solemn and  formal "Lord of the Rings" vibe. The problem with that is there's a reason Tolkien started with the POV of the Hobbits and not the Elves. One of the things I like about Endgame is seeing Rene Russo as Frigga again and that she could easily interact with the goofier, colloquial sounding Thor of Ragnarok. The scene with her and future Thor was moving and Hemsworth really shows how good a dramatic actor is more than the first two Thor movies.

The first Thor movie had a fair bit of humour, around Thor's fish out of water act on Earth. It was clear even then that Hemsworth had good comedic chops. Although it was also clear that he and Natalie Portman had no chemistry.

I don't remember anything in Thor: The Dark World that was played for laughs, other than Jane's date and then Thor being browbeaten and guilty over having stayed away from her. It was a very dull movie.

Ragnarok was jarring, when it was so clearly played for laughs from the opening scene, but it worked amazingly well.

For me, the best dramatic work Hemsworth has done in his career is that scene from Infinity War, where Rocket asks him if he's up to the task of stopping Thanos. There's incredible subtlety in it, and the ability to maintain a long, static shot of your face as you internalise grief, guilt, rage, despair and every other emotion you could think of, is one many actors don't have.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Danny Franks

[Jeebus Cripes]

12 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

It get's better:

They literally made different movies.  This would be hilarious if this wasn't about how a multi-million dollar movie was made, that had a tremendous emotional impact on millions of fans.  The lack of care and understanding of consequences is staggering.  But hey, it made it's billion+ so no one will care, or in many cases even see, the damage that they caused to multiple marginalized fan groups.  

 

I can't... 

11 hours ago, Dandesun said:

It's nice to know that my family cares about me and my mental state after watching a blockbuster super hero movie. But I do have a tendency to dwell on the things I didn't like as much as opposed to celebrating what I did love. And, honestly, I loved 95% of the movie. I really did.

But that doesn't stop me from trying to figure out how to save everybody and how to get the ending I want. It's comics. That's the whole fucking point.

Heh. Same. I've been doing a tremendous amount of bitching considering how much I loved it. I just can't help being salty about that ending. 

9 hours ago, festivus said:

That's my sons and my husband(even though he grew up reading Marvel comics in the 60's). I'm the only MCU freak in this house like, "but I need it to make sense".  I'm pretty sure they've quit listening to me. 

The people around me keep getting glazed over looks on their faces every time I mention the film, and they just nod their heads. LOL.

[BigBeagle]

I totally missed that the "on your left" line was a callback to the jogging scene with Cap and Sam in "Winter Soldier." I'm really going to have to watch this film again to see how many other callbacks I missed.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, BigBeagle said:

I totally missed that the "on your left" line was a callback to the jogging scene with Cap and Sam in "Winter Soldier." I'm really going to have to watch this film again to see how many other callbacks I missed.

I hope you already are on the rewatch 😊. And later when Captain Rogers was in recovery,

Cap didn't see the lean over "hail Hydra" whisper, another character did it.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Raja

[Dandesun]

1 hour ago, BigBeagle said:

I totally missed that the "on your left" line was a callback to the jogging scene with Cap and Sam in "Winter Soldier." I'm really going to have to watch this film again to see how many other callbacks I missed.

Oh, that ‘on your left’ moment made my heart swell like the Grinch on Christmas Day.

I actually really loved the Sam/Steve moments we got and I absolutely love the Steve gave Sam the shield. I know Bucky was Cap in the comics for a bit but I really feel that Sam is the only choice here.

i just wish we had gotten something with Steve/Bucky that was more than one line at the end. Bucky was the first one dusted and it was done in front of Cap so he, specifically, could be devastated by the loss and we got nothing about that in Endgame.

And the Peggy push is particularly annoying when you know these writers really didn’t give a shit. They dismissed Peggy as ‘a girl Steve kissed once in a car’ when they were trying to push the Sharon narrative and they even wanted to start Infinity War with Steve and Sharon in a serious relationship. So the fact that they viewed these two characters as pretty interchangeable and easy to slot in as Cap’s True Love du Jour for whatever movie they were doing at the moment doesn’t make me happy at all. 

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the sheer amount of momentary lady love interests they’ll throw at Bucky and Sam during their team up show. Not.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Dandesun

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

And the Peggy push is particularly annoying when you know these writers really didn’t give a shit. They dismissed Peggy as ‘a girl Steve kissed once in a car’ when they were trying to push the Sharon narrative and they even wanted to start Infinity War with Steve and Sharon in a serious relationship. So the fact that they viewed these two characters as pretty interchangeable and easy to slot in as Cap’s True Love du Jour for whatever movie they were doing at the moment doesn’t make me happy at all. 

Actually I think the Peggy push happened because the writers do love her. They were also the creators of Agent Carter. I think Steve and Sharon failed because they could not let go of Steve and Peggy and ultimately it was a disservice to both women. 

[Danny Franks]

45 minutes ago, Dani said:

Actually I think the Peggy push happened because the writers do love her. They were also the creators of Agent Carter. I think Steve and Sharon failed because they could not let go of Steve and Peggy and ultimately it was a disservice to both women. 

That's the way I see it too. They tried to follow comic book continuity with Sharon Carter (who is a big part of the Winter Soldier storyline, in the comics), but realised that fans were not buying it. And it didn't help that Peggy was one of the most vibrant, memorable women in the MCU. So they went back to a resolution for Steve that they had previously considered impossible. The tragedy was that Steve found the right partner, but never got to dance with her, but once you've invented time travel, that possibility opens up again.

Bucky just wasn't given enough character development at all. From the end of Winter Soldier, he's been a light sketch, instead of the fully inked and coloured character he needed to be, for a wider cinema audience to give a shit about him. And I say that as a huge fan of Bucky Barnes.

For what it's worth, I hope they do give Bucky a love interest in the show they're doing. The guy deserves some fucking happiness, after being a brainwashed assassin for seventy years. Let him get laid, let him fall in love, let him be utterly bamboozled by modern dating, and wondering why his old, 1940s chat up lines don't work any more. Also, let him get his hair cut.

[festivus]

Maybe he met a nice girl in Wakanda. I mean, he couldn't have been herding goats the whole time. Could he?

[Wynterwolf]

On 5/4/2019 at 12:16 PM, festivus said:

Maybe he met a nice girl in Wakanda. I mean, he couldn't have been herding goats the whole time. Could he?

Yes, by all means... lets erase every last smidge of queer reading the text had allowed us, because we don't deserve to keep anything!  Wee!  Sorry, @festivus I do not mean to take my hurt out on you specifically and I know and understand your position,  yours was just last post here.

After reading some more commentary, it occurred to me that, at its core, this movie is basically like a GGer’s manifesto (i.e. the 'fans' that hounded Kelly Marie Tran off social media) that we’ve been conditioned to see as the default:

Bruce/Hulk:  Smart, nerdy guys should be celebrated and idolized.

Clint:  All Asians and Latinx are criminals and should be hunted down like animals (because we are hard wired in our western brain to recognize them as shorthand for criminal. There were seriously no rogue skinhead Hydra/Nazis brutalizing people and taking advantage of the chaos closer to home? And no I don’t think the argument that ‘maybe he did that before we saw him in Asia’ or ‘it was meant imply he was Ronin from the comic’, is valid because it’s not what they chose to show us and this isn’t the comic. I didn’t even recognize this until I saw a black woman commenting on it, this is why diverse journalism is important)

Thor: people with mental health issues are weak and pathetic and should be physically abused and ridiculed until they snap out of it.

Natasha: must have the cool girl who hangs out with The Men, to show how cool The Men are, because the cool girl loves and supports them.  But all she’s good for is to sacrifice herself so The Men can save the day (so she doesn’t rate a funeral or any acknowledgement because she was just a tool to be used and discarded when she wasn’t useful any more). 

Steve: Champion of Masculinity who is so het he travels through space and time to be with his idolized one true love and trophy wife, so of course he is worthy (so Peggy wasn’t allowed to speak, since she was a prize not a person, and she would have called Steve on his bullshit and sent him home, like she did in WS).

Tony: the rich cis het white dude is always the true hero and martyr of any story. 

But they spruced it up and disguised it really well under a veneer of performative progressiveness:

Minuscule lip service to ‘queer rep’ by having an extra say the words “he” and “him”.

Genuinely cool “Girl Power” images, and other incredibly cool iconic imagery sprinkled throughout, that were ultimately just a lot of flash with little substance. 

Stellar performances hid a lot of this too, I think, particularly with Chris H and ScarJo. 

But once you scrape off all the glitzy makeup, it’s basically a GGer’s wet dream.  And it comes across like a highly calculated and effective con job.  Even the time travel inconsistencies and conflicting interviews, whether intentional or not, have helped disguise the myriad issues by giving people a puzzle to gnaw on,  so they’re distracted by that instead of spending any time exploring the deeper themes and how they were portrayed. 

I love the ideal of Disney, I grew up in Disneyland’s backyard, but this is just making me feel… so tired.  I worked for a globally known company for almost 20 years, so I know that there are good and bad people that work in any large company, but people there made these decisions.  And M&M and the Russos, regardless of how they may personally feel, are complicit in this.  But literally no one is going to pay any attention to the (cis het abled white) dude behind the curtain, because he put on a really great show and any legitimate criticism has been successfully reduced to, "You just don't understand Quantum Mechanics" or “Stucky shipper are mad because Steve and Bucky didn’t kiss…  heh heh heh”.  And since this will probably end up being the highest grossing movie in history, there is absolutely no incentive for anything to change, because it’s always just about money. 

And I absolutely get that examining these kinds of things can make people feel defensive for enjoying them, but there isn’t anything wrong with enjoying it… it was great fun!!!  And there are so few fun things to enjoy right now, but at the same time… [insert Will Smith ‘ta da’ meme]. 

Alright, I think I’ve finally gotten all this out of my system, I just had to get that off my chest and just… say it out loud somewhere.

(And oh look! They’re already using the ambiguity of the ending with Steve and Bucky to plug the F&WS D+ series… “maybe we’ll find out more then.”  Yeah, no.  I reserve the right to change my mind, but as of this moment, I’ll pass because yeah, I really don't want to see Bucky flirt with a Natasha-lookalike.  But I would laugh if they are forced into some sort of action because Steve is coming across so badly in certain factions of fandom over his treatment of Bucky and Peggy)

Edited May 6, 2019 by Wynterwolf

[festivus]

26 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

After reading some more commentary, it occurred to me that, at its core, this movie is basically like a GGer’s manifesto that we’ve been conditioned to see as the default:

I googled this term and all I found was good game. Is that what it means or is it something else? Just want to understand it correctly when reading your post.

[Bruinsfan]

16 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Also I realized Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch are two of the most powerful people in the MCU because they got infused with energy from Infinity Stones. Jane Foster had an Infinity Stone INSIDE her and got zilch except being treated rudely by Odin!

When Jane had the Aether in her she (or rather, it) was able to fling Asgardian guards around like ragdolls. And it was removed from her by someone who had a long history with it; presumably Malekith didn't want to leave traces behind that his enemies could use as weapons against him.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Bruinsfan

[Wynterwolf]

27 minutes ago, festivus said:

I googled this term and all I found was good game. Is that what it means or is it something else? Just want to understand it correctly when reading your post.

Replied via message.

[AES13]

I saw it for the second time in Imax 3D today and while I loved it before, it was even better this time.  Knowing the plot made me much more emotionally engaged and I had a lump in my throat just seeing Black Window in the Marvel Studio animation. I also caught a lot more of the lines and the cinematography since my brain wasn't engaged in just reacting to the plot points and wondering where we were going.  The worst part to me is that we won't see RDJ or Chris Evans in these roles again; luckily I'm a huge fan of fanfiction so they will live on forever.  My biggest concern is Natasha; being the fangirl I am, I am certain I will be seeing the Black Window movie.  I just hope that it's not just a prequel but is a mechanism for her to come back somehow.  I feel that Scarlett Johannson has been getting better and better (as her role has grown) and, while she died a noble and heroic death, it would truly be a shame if Natasha didn't get some measure of happiness.

[Dee]

2 hours ago, festivus said:

Maybe he met a nice girl in Wakanda. I mean, he couldn't have been herding goats the whole time. Could he?

You don't think he got his hair in those spiffy ponytails by himself, do you?

[festivus]

7 minutes ago, Dee said:

You don't think he got his hair in those spiffy ponytails by himself, do you?

I always thought the kids did it. Better if he met a nice lady that did it for him. 😊

[stealinghome]

1 hour ago, AES13 said:

My biggest concern is Natasha; being the fangirl I am, I am certain I will be seeing the Black Window movie.  I just hope that it's not just a prequel but is a mechanism for her to come back somehow.  I feel that Scarlett Johannson has been getting better and better (as her role has grown) and, while she died a noble and heroic death, it would truly be a shame if Natasha didn't get some measure of happiness.

I think it's probably a prequel, but I hope that sandwiched around the meat of the story is a frame that brings Natasha back to life in the MCU. (Or at least starts movement that way, if GotG3 is going to pick up that thread--I could TOTALLY see a post-credits scene teasing Guardians 3: The Search for Gamora [And Nat By Association].) I just can't believe that the studio would greenlight a Black Widow prequel movie knowing they were going to kill the character permanently in Endgame. It makes zero sense, especially since the studio has never really wanted to do a Black Widow movie to begin with.

[Dee]

Hasn't ScarJo said she's done playing Widow ala Evans & RDJ?

[kieyra]

Low quality reply from a casual filmgoer at best ...

Saw it today. I feel like I watched 90 minutes of The Leftovers and 90 minutes of a so-so Avengers movie. Which in total was about 45 minutes too long. 

I teared up in two spots: first, when the magician circles began to break through to the battlefield. I’m pretty sure this was mostly due to a recent devastating season finale of a TV show called The Magicians and not much else. 

And I did start sobbing when they did the girl power scene. My husband did (gently) point later out how badly it was set up, in that tacked-on sort of way. But it’s been a bad couple of years, and I had been glumly watching the way it was down to the three white dudes vs Thanos up till that point. So, yeah, sobbed. 

(My favorite MCU movies are the Deadpools and Thor: Ragnarok (which I am rewatching right now). Well, and GotG 1. So yeah, bit of a lightweight and need the comic relief in this stuff. That said, husband is way into the core lore of this cycle, and loved Thanos as a villain until this movie. He was very disappointed and salty about the whole thing.) 

I do think Whedon could have fixed this mess. 

Edited May 5, 2019 by kieyra

[Apprentice79]

2 hours ago, stealinghome said:

I think it's probably a prequel, but I hope that sandwiched around the meat of the story is a frame that brings Natasha back to life in the MCU. (Or at least starts movement that way, if GotG3 is going to pick up that thread--I could TOTALLY see a post-credits scene teasing Guardians 3: The Search for Gamora [And Nat By Association].) I just can't believe that the studio would greenlight a Black Widow prequel movie knowing they were going to kill the character permanently in Endgame. It makes zero sense, especially since the studio has never really wanted to do a Black Widow movie to begin with.

Why were the studios against doing a Black Widow movie?  She should have gotten one a long time ago.  

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

Why were the studios against doing a Black Widow movie?  She should have gotten one a long time ago.  

From what I’ve read the Marvel CEO, Perlmutter, believed that female superheroes could not be commercially successful. Supposedly he is the one behind the lack of Black Widow merchandise and he wouldn’t let Feige make Black Panther or Captain Marvel. Apparently Feige threatened to quit and Disney separated Marvel Studios from Marvel Comics so that Feige no longer reported to Perlmutter. 

I don’t know how much of that is actually true but there are leaked emails where Perlmutter said that female superhero movies had been a disaster. 

Edited May 5, 2019 by Guest

[Sakura12]

2 billion dollars showed how wrong Permultter was on both Black Panther and Captain Marvel. 

A Black Widow movie was written after Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 1. I met one of the writers. Disney was just too afraid to make it. I'm guessing it's a prequel, but that doesn't mean it won't go into modern times and get Nat back. That mostly depends on if Scarlett Johansson wants to continue . 

[Danny Franks]

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

2 billion dollars showed how wrong Permultter was on both Black Panther and Captain Marvel. 

A Black Widow movie was written after Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 1. I met one of the writers. Disney was just too afraid to make it. I'm guessing it's a prequel, but that doesn't mean it won't go into modern times and get Nat back. That mostly depends on if Scarlett Johansson wants to continue . 

I think she's done with the role, at least in terms of emotional commitment. I imagine she thinks Natasha's sacrifice was a fitting end for the character. But that doesn't mean she won't do a Black Widow movie, if the money is right and the script is decent.

It'll be four years past due, but the chance to headline a Marvel movie as a woman is definitely something Scarlett Johansson wanted to do. And I still have an idea that they could do that movie with all female villains too - Yelena Belova and Viper.

Originally I'd have loved to see Bucky appear, but it's clear that the MCU has no connection between the characters. I'm not going to deny the reality they've chosen to create, just because I want it to be different.

[VCRTracking]

Chris Pratt doing an Essex accent from a while back:

To see how accurate it is:

Edited May 5, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Mellowyellow]

On 5/2/2019 at 12:29 PM, Jaded Sapphire said:

As was briefly mentioned earlier in this thread, not only do I think the Steve ending doesn't work but I think Tony deserved better. As much as there was talk about him not being worthy (Nick Fury in Iron Man 2) and him not being willing to sacrifice (Steve in Avengers) all of his movies include him putting himself in danger to save people and most of them include Tony specifically putting his own life on the line to save people:

Iron Man 1 - he almost died

Avengers 1 - he almost died

Avengers 2 - he volunteered to destroy the floating city (with Thor) knowing he could die "This could be a one-way trip"

Avengers Infinity War - Tells Spidey that "This is a one-way ticket" so again expecting to die and almost did against Thanos

Avengers Endgame - Actually dies to save the world

So not only is him sacrificing 'old' from a storytelling point of view, he doesn't get to live with and raise his daughter with Pepper and retire. That is something he's been hoping to do since Avengers 2 (Maybe I'll do like Clint and get a farm with Pepper). After everything he's been through he gets only 5 years of peace. 5 years! It may be an unpopular opinion but I think he was robbed.

500% with you on this. I get why they did it but he was robbed and I knew he was doomed. Letting him live would have been a surprise. 

I loved the movie by yeah Tony was robbed.

Pepper's final words to him though...my husband and I cried in the car on the way home while we were discussing that scene. It summarised their relationship beautifully and no speech could have conveyed what those few words did. 

[Crs97]

I didn’t want Tony to die, but couldn’t figure out how they could let him live because they had made him too indispensable to the group.  He became an expert in Bruce Banner’s science overnight.  He almost solved the Extremis problem one morning while drunk.  Rhodey is still paralyzed but walking fine thanks to him.  He figured out time travel.  People need a new suit or shield or armor?  He’s got it.

If Tony were still alive, you would spend every movie waiting for the cameo.  Could you picture Spider-Man in danger without Tony feeling compelled to help?

I couldn’t wrap my head around how they could avoid it, but wanted Tony to get his happy ending so badly.  I also knew he was doomed when this was the first and only movie that Pepper and he didn’t bicker once.  I am still in mourning.

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Pepper's final words to him though...my husband and I cried in the car on the way home while we were discussing that scene.

Considering that it was almost word-for-word the last thing my husband said to my FIL as he lay dying (hubby's younger brother was barely out of his teens at the time and their mom had been a SAHM for years, so there was going to be really tough times ahead) I really don't know how he held it together in the theater.  I was a sobbing mess.

[Danny Franks]

Yeah, it felt cruel and unfair that Tony died but... isn't that kind of the point? Tony gets five years of happiness, while everyone else suffers through loss. But that's all he gets. It's still a bittersweet ending because even though he's dying, he fixed everything else, and at least Pepper insists that she and Morgan will be okay.

The whole movie was bittersweet, with genuine sacrifices being made so that others could have the chance to get their lives back. Even Cap gets his happiness at the expense of life with his friends in the present day. We're not supposed to think that it was a happy ending, just a fitting and satisfying one.*

* Yes, I'm aware some people weren't satisfied, but that doesn't negate the intentions of the writers and directors.

[Kromm]

On 5/3/2019 at 7:40 PM, Sakura12 said:

Some people may have moved on and some people may not have. I could see people staying in the same house for 5 years. It's not like their loved ones were killed. 50% of the population just disappeared. Most probably didn't even know what happened until later when it appears the Avengers told them. May knowing that Peter is Spider-Man and probably thought Tony or the Avengers would find a way to fix it and stayed in her apartment and kept Peter's room the same. Then was probably too tired to move when it looked like they couldn't. 5 years isn't 20 years. That includes aging, most adults don't age that much in 5 years. Tony could've even been paying for May to keep her apartment. 

They might bring up the 5 years in Spider-man Far From Home. They had that scene in the trailer

  Reveal spoiler

where Happy comments on May's dress and Peter's confused. That could mean that Happy's been talking to May for the past 5 years enough to know she bought a new dress.

The bigger issue of the two between is May living in the same place and why did she seem so calm/willing to let Peter go on a school trip so soon is the second question. You have to fanwank a hell of a lot harder to gloss over the natural emotions we'd expect someone to have in that circumstance vs. real estate issues.  Unless we've been misled (very possible) about Far From Home supposedly happening right on the heels of Endgame.

[Kromm]

21 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

When Jane had the Aether in her she (or rather, it) was able to fling Asgardian guards around like ragdolls. And it was removed from her by someone who had a long history with it; presumably Malekith didn't want to leave traces behind that his enemies could use as weapons against him.

OR if Natalie Portman ever deigned to come back to the MCU (it seems unlikely since she wasn't willing to do a cameo in Endgame and they had to CGI the older footage) they could say that the power has been sitting latent in her and is the basis for her becoming the female version of Thor (a plotpoint from the comics, minus that particular explanation for it). 

[Kromm]

On 5/2/2019 at 4:11 PM, Danny Franks said:

I almost laughed out loud at the scene where all the women teamed up with Carol. Not because it was corny or silly, but because I felt like it was a deliberate choice, put in the movie just to enrage the whiny fanboys and misogynists who thought they could sabotage Captain Marvel. I hope that scene made them seethe with impotent anger.

I've been staying away from places where that's likely happening, although I noticed a bunch of YouTube video reviews where 95% of the review is gushing about the movie, with an interlude somewhere in the middle venting about how much they hated the Captain Marvel parts but were willing to overlook them as long as Disney waves a wand and gets rid of her after this.

Just to reiterate my opinion on that scene, so nobody has to scroll back, I was more than fine with the concept of the scene, but felt the execution was horribly ham-handed. I even came up with a headcanon/theory about why it wound up in the movie seeming so arbitrary/badly set up.  That I bet there was a preceding scene shot where these women meet/are teamed up and it was cut for time.  Leaving a super-well intentioned and thematically appropriate scene behind which despite that felt forced and artificial... when it didn't really have to.

The various pigs out there STILL would have been offended and loathsome about it, even if it had been set up better by this other theoretical scene I'm speculating about though, so really I think this instead comes down to one of the few bad editing decisions made in the movie and has nothing to do with those (mostly) guys and their misogynistic bullcrap.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Kromm said:

The bigger issue of the two between is May living in the same place and why did she seem so calm/willing to let Peter go on a school trip so soon is the second question. You have to fanwank a hell of a lot harder to gloss over the natural emotions we'd expect someone to have in that circumstance vs. real estate issues.  Unless we've been misled (very possible) about Far From Home supposedly happening right on the heels of Endgame.

There might be answers about that very soon. There are reports that the new Far From Home trailer is going to be released soon and that it will include a Endgame spoiler warning. If it’s true, it will be interesting to see what is considered big enough to warrant a spoiler warning. 

[Apprentice79]

1 hour ago, Kromm said:

I've been staying away from places where that's likely happening, although I noticed a bunch of YouTube video reviews where 95% of the review is gushing about the movie, with an interlude somewhere in the middle venting about how much they hated the Captain Marvel parts but were willing to overlook them as long as Disney waves a wand and gets rid of her after this.

Just to reiterate my opinion on that scene, so nobody has to scroll back, I was more than fine with the concept of the scene, but felt the execution was horribly ham-handed. I even came up with a headcanon/theory about why it wound up in the movie seeming so arbitrary/badly set up.  That I bet there was a preceding scene shot where these women meet/are teamed up and it was cut for time.  Leaving a super-well intentioned and thematically appropriate scene behind which despite that felt forced and artificial... when it didn't really have to.

The various pigs out there STILL would have been offended and loathsome about it, even if it had been set up better by this other theoretical scene I'm speculating about though, so really I think this instead comes down to one of the few bad editing decisions made in the movie and has nothing to do with those (mostly) guys and their misogynistic bullcrap.

I don't understand the intense hatred for Captain Marvel.  Why does she trigger so many nuts out there. Why does a fictitious person inspire so much vitriol.  The misogyny is really scary. Some people need to get some perspective, it is not that serious.  I liked the scene with the women, but, I can understand why some people felt it was forced. Live and let live..