S04.E05: Savages

[Athena]

Quote

Claire's medical expertise proves invaluable, but she begins to fear for her life when tragedy strikes her patients' household. Jamie and Young Ian travel to a nearby town to recruit settlers for Fraser's Ridge.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Awwwww, Murtagh! I loved how thrilled he was when Jamie said that Claire had come back to him. When he asked Jamie, "Will you join us?" I was ready to have a Les Mis singalong. I loved his reunion with Claire too.

I have nothing to say about Mueller and his self righteous indignation about the savages daring to set foot on his land to steal water for their horses because it speaks for itself.

Is it wrong that I laughed when Roger got Brianna's letter? Maybe if you hadn't been such a DICK, she would have told you herself what she was doing before she left! Sorry, man. You reap what you sow. When you slut shame and give ultimatums to a girl who you aren't even officially dating, shit happens.

[nara]

I was really glad to see Murtagh. I’d forgotten that he was sent to America. Willie from season 1 went there too, but I think it’s unlikely we’ll see him.

America agrees with Murtagh—he seems years younger despite having whiter hair. I am also glad that his storyline appears to be less Jamie-centric now.

 I thought the story with the Muellers and the Cherokee family was well done.  I think it’s more nuanced than season 1’s “Scots good, English bad” approach. It’s sad but realistic to see how issues can get escalated quickly, and how the difference in ideas and inability to see the common ground can create fear and violence. 

 

However, I am pissed that my favorite new character, Adawehi, was killed off so quickly.  What is this, Game of Thrones?

[riverheightsnancy]

One of the best episodes. Like a Season 1 episode. Watching again. Murtaugh is not as grumpy! But still an old coot! lol

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, nara said:

 

However, I am pissed that my favorite new character, Adawehi, was killed off so quickly.  What is this, Game of Thrones?

She's like the Outlander version of Sean Bean.

I was pretty much in tears the entire episode. The Cherokee healer being murdered, Murtaugh being reunited with Jamie and Claire, Murtaugh ribbing Ian the way he used to do with Fergus. Just so many freaking feels. 

I'm trying to figure out how deep into 1768 we are, because the Frasers managed to throw up a well-appointed cabin suspiciously quickly. I guess I'll have to assume they were deeded the land early in the year and now we're approaching 1769. That would give them nine months or so to get it together. Otherwise it's ridiculous that three people could fell trees, clear stumps, fashion boards, build a hearth, build a two story cabin, construct animal pens, a gravel driveway and shlep back and forth to town for furniture, cookware, tools, livestock etc., and we are STILL in 1768. 

Brianna's time travel dress was awful, but that's probably the best she could do on such short notice.

Lord John Grey and Willie next week? Blasts from the past are everywhere!

Edited December 3, 2018 by BitterApple

[Cdh20]

SO everyone is going to show up at Fraser's Ridge? First Murtagh, next John & Willie, then Brianna, & lastly Roger? I love reunions!

[Emkat]

Claire's wig!!! Why is the hairline just totally straight across?!

[Lily H]

How much time passed between the end of the last ep and the beginning of this one? We went from an outline of a cabin in the dirt to a fully furnished home with all the amenities of the day. They must be miracle workers.

I had to laugh because the inside walls of their cabin look exactly like a couple of the walls in my TV room (which I have never been a fan of). With the fireplace and all the wood, it almost felt like I was there.

I didn't recognize Murtagh at all when Ian first spoke to him, so his reunion with Jamie was a complete surprise.

[Cdh20]

4 hours ago, Lily H said:

How much time passed between the end of the last ep and the beginning of this one? We went from an outline of a cabin in the dirt to a fully furnished home with all the amenities of the day. They must be miracle workers.

I had to laugh because the inside walls of their cabin look exactly like a couple of the walls in my TV room (which I have never been a fan of). With the fireplace and all the wood, it almost felt like I was there.

I didn't recognize Murtagh at all when Ian first spoke to him, so his reunion with Jamie was a complete surprise.

My guess is the last episode was early 1768, & now it’s the end of that year?

[terrymct]

13 hours ago, nara said:

I was really glad to see Murtagh. I’d forgotten that he was sent to America. Willie from season 1 went there too, but I think it’s unlikely we’ll see him.

America agrees with Murtagh—he seems years younger despite having whiter hair. I am also glad that his storyline appears to be less Jamie-centric now.

 I thought the story with the Muellers and the Cherokee family was well done.  I think it’s more nuanced than season 1’s “Scots good, English bad” approach. It’s sad but realistic to see how issues can get escalated quickly, and how the difference in ideas and inability to see the common ground can create fear and violence. 

 

However, I am pissed that my favorite new character, Adawehi, was killed off so quickly.  What is this, Game of Thrones?

 

I was really happy to see Murtaugh, too.  He was a voice of reason and the source of a good bit of humor, something this season could really use.

You KNEW that Adawehi was going to die.  Claire has been like the Grim Reaper on this show.  Where she goes, death and suffering follow.  Sometimes due to her actions, sometimes not.

[Nidratime]

Quote

You KNEW that Adawehi was going to die.  Claire has been like the Grim Reaper on this show.  Where she goes, death and suffering follow.  Sometimes due to her actions, sometimes not.

In episode 4.04, Adawehi says to Claire that there will be a death and that she should not feel that it's her fault. Not sure if Adawehi knew or felt that it was going to be herself, but she definitely predicted it. 

[terrymct]

44 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

In episode 4.04, Adawehi says to Claire that there will be a death and that she should not feel that it's her fault. Not sure if Adawehi knew or felt that it was going to be herself, but she definitely predicted it. 

Good point.  I thought that might be related to the upcoming fire, but it could be related to a few things.

[nara]

6 hours ago, terrymct said:

You KNEW that Adawehi was going to die.  Claire has been like the Grim Reaper on this show.  Where she goes, death and suffering follow.  Sometimes due to her actions, sometimes not.

But they could have given us a few episodes!

[Cdh20]

3 minutes ago, nara said:

But they could have given us a few episodes!

They did- it was 2.

 

Sometimes I forget how violent this show is until I am recommending it to friends, & a few times recently I had to say-don't watch it to a few that I know can't take that kind of darkness.

[taanja]

7 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

My guess is the last episode was early 1768, & now it’s the end of that year?

The end of the year would imply winter--- which sure???? cuz we could see the actors breath in many scenes-- my quibble with that was Claire feeding all the animals--- buckets full of fresh greens /radishes/vegetables and even in NC fresh veggies don't grow in the winter months. So where was she getting that? Town is three days away. They mentioned that several times.

Oh they killed the old native woman. I know by now NOT to get attached to any characters!

I thought it was a good ep -- re-watch worthy even.

[Cdh20]

The producers have made a point to say they can’t control the weather, so I am not sure the seasons always line up right with the story, but  I did see a bit of snow in the mountains so I think it is late fall/ winter, & Claire mentioned that the pig was to be a Christmas pork chop so  that must be coming up soon?

[BitterApple]

I don't know if you guys are into this sort of thing, but I'm subscribed to an awesome YouTube channel called "Townsends." It's dedicated to all things 1700s, from recreating recipes to food preservation methods to homebuilding. The majority of it is centered around Colonial America, so it provides an interesting parallel to what we're seeing in Outlander. It's very entertaining and informative.

Back on topic, I'm guessing we're in late fall of 1768. Cold enough to see your breath but not heavy into winter. 

I rewatched the episode today and I think it was even more emotional the second time around. The reunions between Jamie/Murtaugh and Murtaugh/Claire were so beautifully done.

[Cdh20]

23 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I don't know if you guys are into this sort of thing, but I'm subscribed to an awesome YouTube channel called "Townsends." It's dedicated to all things 1700s, from recreating recipes to food preservation methods to homebuilding. The majority of it is centered around Colonial America, so it provides an interesting parallel to what we're seeing in Outlander. It's very entertaining and informative.

Back on topic, I'm guessing we're in late fall of 1768. Cold enough to see your breath but not heavy into winter. 

I rewatched the episode today and I think it was even more emotional the second time around. The reunions between Jamie/Murtaugh and Murtaugh/Claire were so beautifully done.

I agree Jamie's face was everything when  he saw Murtagh! And Claire's joy too!!!!

[taanja]

22 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I don't know if you guys are into this sort of thing, but I'm subscribed to an awesome YouTube channel called "Townsends." It's dedicated to all things 1700s, from recreating recipes to food preservation methods to homebuilding. The majority of it is centered around Colonial America, so it provides an interesting parallel to what we're seeing in Outlander. It's very entertaining and informative.

Back on topic, I'm guessing we're in late fall of 1768. Cold enough to see your breath but not heavy into winter. 

I rewatched the episode today and I think it was even more emotional the second time around. The reunions between Jamie/Murtaugh and Murtaugh/Claire were so beautifully done.

I re-watched again last night and concur! Really well done.

[Cdh20]

I am questioning the amount of time that has gone by though as Herr Meuller asked Claire if she had grandchildren & she said “no”, so Fergus & Marsali haven’t had their baby yet? That is one long pregnancy? Or perhaps they haven’t heard word yet?

[Nidratime]

Claire also doesn't bring up Fergus when Adawehi asks if she has any children. But the way Adawehi was using hand signals, it looked more like she was asking if Claire had ever given birth. So, I didn't think too much about it.  Besides, it would've been difficult to explain who Fergus was to Claire without speaking the same language.

[Hannah Lee]

On 12/3/2018 at 4:27 PM, taanja said:

The end of the year would imply winter--- which sure???? cuz we could see the actors breath in many scenes-- my quibble with that was Claire feeding all the animals--- buckets full of fresh greens /radishes/vegetables and even in NC fresh veggies don't grow in the winter months. So where was she getting that? Town is three days away. They mentioned that several times.

Oh they killed the old native woman. I know by now NOT to get attached to any characters!

I thought it was a good ep -- re-watch worthy even.

 

That didn't bother me too much (aside from the timing of establishing a vegetable garden and the fact that it looked like a lot of scraps that a settler family wouldn't have considered waste)  Depending on how a garden patch is set (south facing, abutting a building, etc) vegetables can sometimes be grown in the winter if it's kind of mild and snow doesn't last long.  Row covers or cloches can be used to extend growing time too.  Root vegetables, cabbages, herbs, chard and other greens could be fine.  (I've harvested things like that for Christmas dinners and into January in mild winters in the northeast US) 

Cabbages, squashes and root vegetables also can store pretty well for long periods, depending on where/how they are stored (in a root cellar, for example)

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/growing-a-fall-vegetable-garden

Edited December 5, 2018 by Hannah Lee

[toolazy]

1 hour ago, Hannah Lee said:

 

That didn't bother me too much (aside from the timing of establishing a vegetable garden and the fact that it looked like a lot of scraps that a settler family wouldn't have considered waste)  Depending on how a garden patch is set (south facing, abutting a building, etc) vegetables can sometimes be grown in the winter if it's kind of mild and snow doesn't last long.  Row covers or cloches can be used to extend growing time too.  Root vegetables, cabbages, herbs, chard and other greens could be fine.  (I've harvested things like that for Christmas dinners and into January in mild winters in the northeast US) 

Cabbages, squashes and root vegetables also can store pretty well for long periods, depending on where/how they are stored (in a root cellar, for example)

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/growing-a-fall-vegetable-garden

I saw a still shot of what she fed the animals and it looked like a lot of cabbage and root vegetables, which are reasonable to have on hand in late fall/early winter.  

[BitterApple]

6 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

I am questioning the amount of time that has gone by though as Herr Meuller asked Claire if she had grandchildren & she said “no”, so Fergus & Marsali haven’t had their baby yet? That is one long pregnancy? Or perhaps they haven’t heard word yet?

Marsali was visibly showing when Claire left Wilmington, so she should've had the baby by now. Otherwise,  Claire, Jamie and Ian are the fastest three-person construction crew on the planet.  

Edited December 5, 2018 by BitterApple

[ganesh]

So I was all hung up on the cabin construction last week and it looks like they built a 2 story condo. Ok. With animal pens. And all the furniture. And plates. And candles. And they built a fireplace. 

As much as I do rip on them all being busybodies, the scene with Claire standing down the Germans and the Native Americans was well done. Good job Claire. Not her fault on this time. Sorry to tell the German, it's not "your land" really. I'm surprised Claire didn't just shoot him. 

I also liked all the scenes with Claire and the animals. "Ladies". "You don't know you're going to be a porkchop". 

I did like the conversation about the "future."

Of course, Jamie is up to his ears in the tax problems now. Way to not think anything through. 

So is Murtagh the Patrick Henry of the South? I'm assuming the burning down the cabin is on his plan because he clearly knows the lay of the land much much much more than Jamie. "Hey I have a ton of land, you want some?" And we know they can rely on the Native Americans to frame up a burning. 

Also I loved him coming up to Claire whistling 'boogie woogie bugle boy'. At some point she actually taught him popular music post WWII. 

Still though, I think this was the most interesting of the season to me because I feel like they're going to actually be here for a while and develop plot, as opposed to "he's my heir. We don't like slaves. Kill that guy. We're leaving." in 50 minutes. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by ganesh

[BitterApple]

14 hours ago, ganesh said:

 I'm assuming the burning down the cabin is on his plan because he clearly knows the lay of the land much much much more than Jamie. "Hey I have a ton of land, you want some?" 

It's kind of funny that Jamie was so shocked the Scottish settlers didn't want the land. Taking the tax issues out of the equation, think of how long it would take to cut down trees, clear the land, make it suitable for farming and grow and harvest crops. That's a hell of a long time to go without any income. I can't say I blame them for not giving up steady work to take such a huge risk.

Which leads me to my next question: How is it that Jamie and Claire have been in the colonies for a year, but still seem so clueless about the social, political and economic issues facing the region? I know Google and CNN didn't exist back then, but sheesh.

[ganesh]

23 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Which leads me to my next question: How is it that Jamie and Claire have been in the colonies for a year, but still seem so clueless about the social, political and economic issues facing the region?

Maybe if they stayed more than a day with the Lannisters at River Run they might have learned a little something about something.

For one, Claire kind of knows about the current issues and I would think that she would talk about them with Jamie. For the other, it's not like Jamie doesn't have political experience or know to suss out the politics of the region at the least from when they were in France in the second season. For the last, they're on the doorstop of the biggest rebellion in human history, so I'd think they would be more cautious. 

I don't think it's OOC though because they are fairly impulsive.

The Lord that gave Jamie the land only mentioned something briefly about the taxes, so I think having Mur back now will shed more light on the issue. 

[BusyOctober]

So if Brianna went through the stones in Scotland, won’t she be transported back in time to SCOTLAND?  Claire only went traveling through time in the UK. She needed ships to get to and from France, the Caribbean and the Colonies.  Is there a dial of some kind on the stones to punch in the desired date and location? Like Mr. Peabody’s Way Back Machine or Doc Brown’s DeLorean?  How does Brianna know she’ll land in the right year?  If she lands in Scotland, she will need to get her single young woman with no family, no job butt to the Colonies. And in time to rescue her parents from dying in a fire like Roger warned her.

Murtagh ending up in North Carolina is plausible enough (for a tv show).  Same township or county....oh-kayyy. I guess.  But now we will see Jamie’s patron, Sir John and his illegitimate son are showing up on Fraser’s Ridge??  Will the ousted King James be popping by for tea and jerky as well? 

I knew the clash between the Muellers and the Cherokee would end badly.  How cowardly of the man to kill an old woman.  Not that he should kill anyone, but why not go after a brave or a chief to impress upon the tribe you mean business? Instead you go after one of the physically weakest member.  Jamie and Claire already have a potential tax uprising in their midst, and the pending Revolutionary War is a-comin’.  Now this shmuck has brought down the wrath of the Native Americans with whom he previously achieved a tenuous relationship.  Thanks, Herr Mueller.

[ganesh]

Presumably. Given that Claire went back to a specific time and returned to her time exactly x+n years, I would assume that the "n" is fixed, so she'd likely be in the correct year, but of course it's a risk. I think it's way more of a risk for her to get to North Carolina than if he landed in the correct year + or -. I mean, the show is corny, so of course she's going to land in the right year. 

The problem is that we know there's stones in the Americas, so there's nothing that stops her from reappearing through them if they're networked or something. I mean, the show is what it is, but the only issue I really have is that Claire hasn't shown any interest in the stones at all. Their legend is known before Jamie's time. That didn't even seem to pique Claire's interest. And then meeting Gellis. They didn't talk about how she went through at all? We eventually saw it. 

1 hour ago, BusyOctober said:

Instead you go after one of the physically weakest member.

I think it was targeted either because Claire and she were friends or because he thought she provided the "poison" that was used in the river. So it's actually a reasonably calculated murder. The tribe doesn't have their healer anymore. You kill the chief, then they elect a new chief, and now what? 

[RedHackle]

Quote

America agrees with Murtagh—he seems years younger despite having whiter hair.

I thought the same thing. Delighted to see Murtagh and extra delighted to seem him looking so well. Loved his sneak-up on Claire. I thought that was perfect.

Almost made up for the heartbreaking moment Claire unwrapped the gingham to reveal Adawehi's scalp. That was horrendous. (I only read the first book so didn't see this coming.)

Can't wait to see the upcoming episodes.

[Mountainair]

Not sure where best to post at this point but I just finished this episode. 
 

I found this show on Netflix last summer and it took me a while to get through season 1. I finally did and was hooked. Lucky for me my cable provider is offering a free preview of Starz this weekend so I was able to download all of season 4 for free! 
 

I am of Scottish decent. Even know what clan I’m from so this is a really interesting watch for me. On top of that, I live in Asheville, NC (used to live in Wilmington, NC) about 30 minutes from Grandfather mountain and 45 minutes from Cherokee, NC which is the nearest Cherokee native reservation. They do a wonderful outdoor drama called Unto These Hills about this very subject in the summertime. I have not been as an adult (my youngest child is 3 and I want to wait until she is a bit older to go). It’s very moving. 
 

The CGI in this season is killing me. You can tell they try to portray the Appalachian mountains in the scenic shots. More specifically in the shot of Jamie and Claire from the credits it looks like they are trying to make it look like a view of Lake Lure which is not near Grandfather Mountain. In the woodsy shots it’s very clearly not our mountains because our trees just don’t look like that. 

They did get the wildlife references correct though. Bears are a regular occurrence here and I’ve accidentally come face to face with one too many in my lifetime. Our winters are cold but we aren’t all that snowy. We’ve been in a snow drought as a matter of fact only just receiving our first snowfall of the winter two days ago. 

Asheville just hosted its first indoor Highland games last weekend which I attended with my family. It was a lot of fun! The massive Highland games are this summer at Grandfather Mountain which we will be attending as well. 
 

Last season was kind of a miss for me but it makes sense now seeing the trajectory season 4 is taking. 

[Cdh20]

Mountainair, It seems this is a show made for you! Don’t let that cgi ruin it!  Why didn’t you enjoy season 3? 

[Camera One]

I hope they at least sent a crew to North Carolina to get some establishing shots.  But even that view from Fraser's Fridge looked so fake.

This was a really well-done episode, though I found it really traumatizing with the death of that wonderful Cherokee healer.  I would have loved to see her and Claire interact more.  I know violence was common in the 1700s but this show almost revels in it.  I was even traumatized by how the German wife got killed, though the husband certainly deserved it. 

They did a good job of showing the misunderstandings on both sides.  The two groups' views of water/property rights were so fundamentally different.  I was relieved the German man didn't try to kill Claire too, though the whole situation plus Claire all alone in the cabin really drove home the point that they were foolish to settle here instead of going back to Scotland where they could at least *attempt* to lie low.  

Of course, the other reason why this episode was so awesome was the surprise Murtaugh appearance.  Though I am on edge that this whole conflict with the corrupt tax collectors is going to cause even more trouble for Jaime and Claire.

I sure hope Brianna actually came prepared, though being a single young female is going to be extremely dangerous for her.  I hope they show how she gets to America, instead of skipping everything.  Plus it would be fun seeing another modern character experience the 1700s for the first time.  I think it would have been more interesting if she and Roger had gone through together, since we would get to hear more reaction.  I suppose Roger is going to be another prop placeholder like Frank?

I have to be more careful reading the threads from now on.  I actively try to avoid promos for the next episode for any show I watch, and there were quite a few mentions of the next episode in the above posts.  I really enjoy reading other people's thoughts after an episode when binge-watching, but I also don't want to be spoiled for any surprises.  I guess I'm lucky I got through Season 2 and 3 without that problem.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Camera One

[gingerella]

On 4/4/2021 at 6:12 PM, Camera One said:

I have to be more careful reading the threads from now on.  I actively try to avoid promos for the next episode for any show I watch, and there were quite a few mentions of the next episode in the above posts.  I really enjoy reading other people's thoughts after an episode when binge-watching, but I also don't want to be spoiled for any surprises.  I guess I'm lucky I got through Season 2 and 3 without that problem.

^THIS!!!^ I realize this thread is old but still, I don't want to know what's coming next episode thankyouverymuch.

Now on to this episode, which I liked, but I was also on pins and needles the entire time, waiting for Claire to be attacked. Thank god for Rollo!

Things I liked:

I enjoy watching Claire learn about and prepare herbs for healing purposes, and the scene with the Indian healer I could watch that all day, though it's impossible now thanks to fuckwit Herr Mueller.

I wondered why Jamie was stealing his own mother's candlestick but then when he was looking for the silversmith I realized he wants to take a bit of silver from it and make Claire a new ring. At least I assume so.

Jamie seeing Brianna's birthmark in his dreams. That was....interesting. I started to wonder if Jamie can sort of time travel in his dreams? That would be an interesting twist on things - he can't travel through time physically, but he can during his dream states. Claire came to him often from the time he was laying for dead on the field at Culloden, to before she came back. So maybe he/they can time travel in a dream state?

Roger is a fucking BOSS. I know he acted like a major dick to Brianna BUT, he's the guy I want on my team in a pinch because he's got a good head on his shoulders and hes great at sussing out information!

I could also watch general cabin life for like an entire season no problem!

MURTAGH! Loved every scene he was in, and got chills and all teary-eyed when M&J, then M&C were reunited. The scene with Murtagh and the Scotsmen's meeting was very interesting. Good old reliable Murtagh has always been there guiding and protecting Jamie, upholding his vow to Ellen Fraser to always look out for his godson. But as Culloden neared, Murtagh watched, and followed, as Jamie became a true leader of men, and Murtagh followed Jamie's leadership unflinchingly - he became the follower, no longer the leader to young Jamie Fraser. So much so that he insisted on returning to Culloden after he set the Lallybroch men on a safe path home, so he could fight and die next to Jamie. Now, Jamie is in a new place and it is Murtagh who we see has grown into a leader of men, leader of Regulators apparently. And unlike before, Jamie cannot reciprocate and follow behind Murtagh's leadership. It's an interesting conundrum, isn't it? A flipping of the script of two men who were so tied to one another in Scotland.

It was interesting to see the level of fear in Jamie's face at that regulator's meeting. He knows shite will go down and let's face it, he's seen his fair share of shite so I don't blame him for shying away. But now he also knows just how hated the slimy governor really is.

Things I did NOT like:

The whole thing with Herr Mueller (HM) being a hateful, ignorant piece of shite to the Cherokee. Thank god Claire was there or he'd have been killed earlier, which probably would have been a better end because it would have saved Adowei. Speaking of which, this must have been what she meant when she said 'people will die but it won't be your fault'. I wonder if she saw her own death? And not for nothing but HOW did HM sashay into a Cherokee camp, kill AND scalp their female healer, and sashay out again without being killed on the spot? That's weird and I guess I'm supposed to hand wave that part, right?

Things that made me go 'Hmmmmm?!?:

So has it even been a year yet since the last episode? And in that time, that short time, they've managed to build a bitchin' cabin and filled it will all the accoutrement of a household that's been there for like 10-20 years?! Seriously? That cabin was STOCKED TO THE RAFTERS with all manner of both mundane and luxury stuff! How is that even possible? And where did all those fresh veggies for the Christmas pork chop come from? If they're going to show that they need to show like one scene of Claire working in or harvesting some carrots or cabbage or whatever. Otherwise I'm calling BS.

Brianna, what did she do with her luggage and whatever clothing she had when she traveled from Boston to Inverness? If she'd left something with her innskeeper okay, but it seems like she did not. And wasn't that the same surname as the place Frank & Claire stayed? Maybe it was the original innskeeper's daughter since she said she was a 'Miss'?

And lastly, in Brianna's letter, it sounds like she was planning on coming back and telling Roger what had happened so this letter was just in case she cannot come back. But she also says in it, "I learned something terrible that's going to happen to my parents and I have to try to warn them", but what did she learn? Fiona told Roger about the article she found from Rev. Wakefield's research, that said J&C die in a house fire. But Roger didn't tell Brianna that did he? I seem to remember him only calling her to tell her that Claire found Jamie, and that they lived in NC very near to where the Clan festival had been held. But I don't remember him telling her about the fire because didn't he learn about the fire after he had that call with her, when he went to pick up the last boxes of his things at the house? And after Fiona told him didn't he call her and that's when he learned she'd gone to Scotland to see her mother? So what did Brianna learn?

God this show tires me out!

Edited August 11, 2021 by gingerella

[Camera One]

14 minutes ago, gingerella said:

Roger is a fucking BOSS. I know he acted like a major dick to Brianna BUT, he's the guy I want on my team in a pinch because he's got a good head on his shoulders and hes great at sussing out information!

It really provided this season with a bit of momentum.  Because there wasn't much to look forward to in colonial life.

Quote

So has it even been a year yet since the last episode? And in that time, that short time, they've managed to build a bitchin' cabin and filled it will all the accoutrement of a household that's been there for like 10-20 years?! Seriously? That cabin was STOCKED TO THE RAFTERS with all manner of both mundane and luxury stuff! How is that even possible? And where did all those fresh veggies for the Christmas pork chop come from? If they're going to show that they need to show like one scene of Claire working in or harvesting some carrots or cabbage or whatever. Otherwise I'm calling BS.

It really was ridiculous.  There should have been a bit of progression.  If they are choosing to show pioneer life, then actually show us.

[gingerella]

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

It really was ridiculous.  There should have been a bit of progression.  If they are choosing to show pioneer life, then actually show us.

It really was ridiculous. And did we even see a bedroom or a bed, and where does Ian sleep? If you're gonna show me a Better Huts & Cabins that's Architectural Cabin Digest level fly, then show me all of the place. Usually such homesteads had at best a  bed or two but no extra rooms. Given Claire and Jamie's sex drive for each other, and the fact that the Cherokee seem to pop out of nowhere in the woods all the time, where are they doing it with Ian around. I want to know if stuff like this! 

Okay, that last bit sounded a little creepy but you guys know what I meant!

Edited August 11, 2021 by gingerella

[Cdh20]

14 hours ago, gingerella said:

It really was ridiculous. And did we even see a bedroom or a bed, and where does Ian sleep? If you're gonna show me a Better Huts & Cabins that's Architectural Cabin Digest level fly, then show me all of the place. Usually such homesteads had at best a  bed or two but no extra rooms. Given Claire and Jamie's sex drive for each other, and the fact that the Cherokee seem to pop out of nowhere in the woods all the time, where are they doing it with Ian around. I want to know if stuff like this! 

Okay, that last bit sounded a little creepy but you guys know what I meant!

I am with you, Jamie & Claire need their own bedroom ( preferably with soundproof walls, cause Claire, you know).

[SassAndSnacks]

20 hours ago, gingerella said:

I could also watch general cabin life for like an entire season no problem!

Ah, me too.  Why can't we see more of this?  I want to see the cabin being built and them breaking all of that virgin ground for crops (the work of that!).  Jamie making a table, a bed frame, laying stone for and blessing the hearth...sigh. 

20 hours ago, gingerella said:

So has it even been a year yet since the last episode? And in that time, that short time, they've managed to build a bitchin' cabin and filled it will all the accoutrement of a household that's been there for like 10-20 years?! Seriously? That cabin was STOCKED TO THE RAFTERS with all manner of both mundane and luxury stuff! How is that even possible?

I like to think that Auntie Jo sent some first-world provisions to the Back Country.  She wouldna want them to rough it too much, ya ken?  Jamie is a man of worth.  

18 hours ago, gingerella said:

I want to know if stuff like this!

Sounds like a perfectly practical, reasonable request.  Perhaps Ian does a lot of hanging out with JQM?

4 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

I am with you, Jamie & Claire need their own bedroom ( preferably with soundproof walls, cause Claire, you know).

Between your britches and backing her up against a tree comment last week and now this one, I'm seeing you in a whole new light.  Day-um!  I feel like I need a drink and I didn't even see anything (or do anything dammit!).  

Can we talk about Murts for a second?  The colonial air clearly agrees with him.  He turned around from that forge like a freaking boss.  His joy over Jamie's joy made my heart so happy, and let's be honest we could all use some of that these days.  

Finally, I wasn't a fan of the Get In My Pantaloons Jamie Fraser Silversmith Wife subplot.  We get it, JAMMF is a HAMF.  He's a fine looking "45" year old.  The whole context of that just seemed to be so pointless.  How about skip that and show me more cabin building?!

[Cdh20]

41 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

 Jamie making a table, a bed frame, laying stone for and blessing the hearth...sigh. 

I like to think that Auntie Jo sent some first-world provisions to the Back Country.  She wouldna want them to rough it too much, ya ken?  Jamie is a man of worth.  

Between your britches and backing her up against a tree comment last week and now this one, I'm seeing you in a whole new light.  Day-um!  I feel like I need a drink and I didn't even see anything (or do anything dammit!).  

Can we talk about Murts for a second?  The colonial air clearly agrees with him.  He turned around from that forge like a freaking boss.  His joy over Jamie's joy made my heart so happy, and let's be honest we could all use some of that these days.  

 

I am not so enthralled by the homesteading! Yawn! I do believe Jocasta generously outfitted the cabin! Maybe  watching Jamie build something would have made it more interesting, especially if he was shirtless, oops did I say that out loud? Aren’t we all the silversmith’s wife when it comes to Jamie? 
 

Murtagh kind of scowled at first thinking Jamie had a wife, until Jamie said it was Claire. Then it was the happiest I’ve ever seen him! 
 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Cdh20

[Anothermi]

So far, these last few (couple?) episodes are more my pace. And to my liking. I agree with you @gingerella that it would have been nice to see a bit more of the everyday toil of building a homestead.  It could be done in just a few minutes with a kind of time-lapse series of scenes that incorporate the character/plot bits while subtly inserting the gradual build up of improvements and furnishings .  It would be like a Coles Notes version of relationships—so we wouldn't feel blindsided. 

But... that's not the way this show does things.  The Meullers were mentioned by Jamie and/or Claire in the opening scene and one named  Gerhard was mentioned comparing him unfavourably to Clarence the mule 🥰—Clarence being less stubborn and exhibiting more sense.  I have to assume they were talking about Herr Mueller. BUT I didn't catch it until I reviewed the beginning a second time! And after reading your responses.

I loved the scene with Claire and Adawehi. And I felt totally cheated by the end of the episode because I'd assumed we'd see more than one scene of them together. At least we know what Adawehi was referring to regarding there being deaths but they would not be Claire's fault.  I believe when Adawehi first met Claire she <prophesied> that Claire would possess even greater skills than herself. 

Ah. Here it is:

Giduhwa:  This is my husband's grandmother, Adawehi.

I'm Claire.

Giduhwa: She had a dream about you. 

Adawehi (translated by Giduhwa):  The moon was in the water, and you became a white raven. You flew over the water and swallowed the moon. The white raven flew back and laid an egg in the palm of her hand. The egg split open, and there was a shining stone inside. She knew this was great magic, that the stone could heal sickness. She's a healer. A very powerful healer. My husband's grandmother says that you have medicine now, but you will have more. When your hair is white like snow, you will have wisdom beyond time.

You must not be troubled. Death is sent from the gods. It will not be your fault.

 

So my next favourite thing was THE RETURN OF MURTAUGH!!!  💗  I was no longer expecting to see him. He's aged impressively!

On 8/10/2021 at 10:19 PM, gingerella said:

MURTAGH! Loved every scene he was in, and got chills and all teary-eyed when M&J, then M&C were reunited. The scene with Murtagh and the Scotsmen's meeting was very interesting. Good old reliable Murtagh has always been there guiding and protecting Jamie, upholding his vow to Ellen Fraser to always look out for his godson. But as Culloden neared, Murtagh watched, and followed, as Jamie became a true leader of men, and Murtagh followed Jamie's leadership unflinchingly - he became the follower, no longer the leader to young Jamie Fraser. So much so that he insisted on returning to Culloden after he set the Lallybroch men on a safe path home, so he could fight and die next to Jamie. Now, Jamie is in a new place and it is Murtagh who we see has grown into a leader of men, leader of Regulators apparently. And unlike before, Jamie cannot reciprocate and follow behind Murtagh's leadership. It's an interesting conundrum, isn't it? A flipping of the script of two men who were so tied to one another in Scotland.

Well said my friend. Thanks for highlighting how much leadership Murtaugh has grown into. HE is a man of substance. But he has been Jamie's God Father since... forever... so I'd expect some of what we see in Jamie he learned by the example of both his father AND Murtagh.

Next notable item on my list:

On 8/10/2021 at 10:19 PM, gingerella said:

Jamie seeing Brianna's birthmark in his dreams. That was....interesting. I started to wonder if Jamie can sort of time travel in his dreams? That would be an interesting twist on things - he can't travel through time physically, but he can during his dream states. Claire came to him often from the time he was laying for dead on the field at Culloden, to before she came back. So maybe he/they can time travel in a dream state?

^^*THIS*^^  I don't get it yet—except that there is a tie-in with Brianna deciding to time travel—but I'll be watching for (hopefully) a little more  from Jamie than just a hunky protector—who knows how to talk to women. (miraculous as that is)

Then comes:

On 8/10/2021 at 10:19 PM, gingerella said:

Roger is a fucking BOSS. I know he acted like a major dick to Brianna BUT, he's the guy I want on my team in a pinch because he's got a good head on his shoulders and hes great at sussing out information!

I particularly enjoyed Miss Baird's description comparing Brianna to Ali MacGraw who starred in  Love Story—a movie released in 1970. Although Ali's hair was black, it was styled in a way similar to Brianna's. Long and straight. So in that one reference we got the year Brianna went through the stones and a possible nod to her and Roger's relationship. Although, on second thought, I hope that is not the case because Ali's character dies at the end of the movie!

On 8/10/2021 at 10:19 PM, gingerella said:

That cabin was STOCKED TO THE RAFTERS with all manner of both mundane and luxury stuff! How is that even possible? And where did all those fresh veggies for the Christmas pork chop come from? If they're going to show that they need to show like one scene of Claire working in or harvesting some carrots or cabbage or whatever.

^^This.^^ Again! This stuff is frustrating. Not to mention Claire is not even using the veg that the human's discard... but fresh—practically right out of the market—produce. The farmers that I grew up around had a slop bucket by the stove for the pigs. Everything the humans didn't eat went in there. NOTHING resembled fresh vegetables!

Still—I was able to enjoy most of the episode.  I won't forgive them for Adawehi though. 🤬

Edited August 13, 2021 by Anothermi

[SassAndSnacks]

3 hours ago, Anothermi said:

So my next favourite thing was THE RETURN OF MURTAUGH!!!

When he popped on the screen, I thought of you and your reaction. 

3 hours ago, Anothermi said:

^^This.^^ Again! This stuff is frustrating. Not to mention Claire is not even using the veg that the human's discard... but fresh—practically right out of the market—produce. The farmers that I grew up around had a slop bucket by the stove for the pigs. Everything the humans didn't eat went in there. NOTHING resembled fresh vegetables!

As a farm kid, this urked me.  You don't give the good stuff to the pigs, which will happily eat just about anything.  Further, I would imagine any good homesteader would have used those "scraps" (which didn't look too scrap-ish) to make stew or broth or something else edible for the people.  As for the slop bucket, my grandparents definitely had one and it sat by the sink.  When you would take your plate to the sink after your meal, you would scrape the remnant produce into the bucket.  At the end of the day, the bucket would be dumped into the pig trough.  

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:53 PM, Anothermi said:

I loved the scene with Claire and Adawehi. And I felt totally cheated by the end of the episode because I'd assumed we'd see more than one scene of them together. At least we know what Adawehi was referring to regarding there being deaths but they would not be Claire's fault.  I believe when Adawehi first met Claire she <prophesied> that Claire would possess even greater skills than herself. 

Ah. Here it is:

Giduhwa:  This is my husband's grandmother, Adawehi.

I'm Claire.

Giduhwa: She had a dream about you. 

Adawehi (translated by Giduhwa):  The moon was in the water, and you became a white raven. You flew over the water and swallowed the moon. The white raven flew back and laid an egg in the palm of her hand. The egg split open, and there was a shining stone inside. She knew this was great magic, that the stone could heal sickness. She's a healer. A very powerful healer. My husband's grandmother says that you have medicine now, but you will have more. When your hair is white like snow, you will have wisdom beyond time.

Let me preface this by saying that I have been living under a rock for the past many moons and am probably the only person in the world who is completely unspoiled with how the series progresses, having never read the books and only discovering the tv show on Netflix a couple of weeks ago. I imagine my experience binge-watching multiple seasons in a short period of time differs from your original viewing. Literally everything is plot twist to me -- you mean Claire and Jamie were always the endgame, and that whole getting back to Frank was just a detour? That's the kind of obliviousness to the Outlander universe I'm talking about having.

Saying all that to highlight that this is pure speculation that probably doesn't even fit into the essence of the Outlander saga. 

I interpreted Adawehi's line about having wisdom beyond time to mean that Claire travels to the future, like to the year 4000, and thus develops knowledge of medicine unimaginable to us even today. After all, magic is just science that has yet to be explained.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 7/9/2022 at 10:50 PM, Sheikh Yerbouti said:

you mean Claire and Jamie were always the endgame, and that whole getting back to Frank was just a detour? That's the kind of obliviousness to the Outlander universe I'm talking about having.

!!!

[gingerella]

On 7/9/2022 at 7:50 PM, Sheikh Yerbouti said:

Let me preface this by saying that I have been living under a rock for the past many moons and am probably the only person in the world who is completely unspoiled with how the series progresses, having never read the books and only discovering the tv show on Netflix a couple of weeks ago.

You're not alone, a small group if us found Outlander last year and went through it but we tool breaks because...shit don't make sense! 

[SassAndSnacks]

On 7/13/2022 at 1:02 AM, gingerella said:

shit don't make sense!

Spat water all over the screen!