S01.E07: Part 7

[Drogo]

Matt and Sweat run for their lives as the tension between them is pushed to the extreme. Tilly gets out of the hospital and does her best to evade the authorities. But as the law closes in, all three are confronted with hard truths about who they really are.

[LoveLeigh]

Is this episode not being put up at midnight On Demand? 

[leighdear]

I watched at about 5am Central time. 

Good ending, though there wasn't any surprise.  Though I was amazed that Sweat didn't ditch "that fat fu@k" sooner.  

Strange, but it was nice to watch a drama that we know the creators won't try to ruin by stretching it out into more seasons. 

[Lambie]

I thought I'd be really disappointed with only 1 episode focusing on the aftermath of the escape but it was movie length. I really did get a sense of the slow realization that Sweat and Fat Fuck weren't going to make it and Tilly being recognized for the damaged person she is, even right up to the last shot of her pondering what I imagine to be her future, her actions, and one last "party." I would have liked more on her though, especially with Bonnie Hunt. 

 

I loved this series. The casting was phenomenal. Patricia Arquette blew me away in every scene. Eric Lange (who I had never heard of) did just as an impressive job transforming into a simple, working class guy who seemed to love his wife. I don't know anything about the real Lyle other than what I've read here so I don't know how committed he actually was to Tilly but his physical embodiment of the character was incredible. 

[WaltersHair]

It was interesting to see tough Matt devolve into clueless idiot once out of the prison.  Drinking and acting a fool in the deep woods.

I loved the look Sweat got in his eyes like a man who knows the marriage has gone off the rails and it's time to get out. I don't know if he had died if that would have been a better ending. The state of New York has spent so much on him already. Solitary. Was it worth it, Dave?

They did Joyce's son wrong, though. He was Air Force and they don't take idiots that I know of.

And Joyce was Joyce. If Lyle is waiting for her, then bless him.

Great acting, and production all around.

[sadie]

Great finale to a great series!

I did want to see more of Tillys unraveling. Seeing her in her prison jumpsuit was ultimately satisfying. She remains the worst human ever and I hope when they finally let her out that society shuns her appropriately.

Since Sweat is the one that survived I think we have to take his recollection of Matt’s forest adventures with a grain of salt.Although it wasn’t a stretch that Matt was as lazy and useless on the outside as he was helping Sweat dig so there’s that. He would have easily made Canada without him and I’m shocked it took him as long as it did to ditch Matt.  Was it just me or did Stiller almost give him a soft edit here as he almost seemed sympathetic? 

Excellent job by all involved, Stiller, the actors just outstanding. 

[leighdear]

1 hour ago, sadie said:

Was it just me or did Stiller almost give him a soft edit here as he almost seemed sympathetic? 

I thought the same thing.  But I think he's relying on us to remember last episode where we see Sweat run over the nice cop, back up, and run over him again.  That memory removes all traces of sympathy, and we can go back to being completely horrified and disgusted with both of them.  

[edhopper]

Good ending. While we have all given acolades to the main actors, I must comment on how excellent the direction was. Ben Stiller has done good work directing some of his own movies, But this was another level. Would love to see him take on more big movies.

[Drogo]

"You look like The Hamburglar."

Dead.

[Milburn Stone]

6 hours ago, sadie said:

I did want to see more of Tillys unraveling.

That was my one complaint also. When they said, "She's now come in four times to give statements," and we saw a transcript in which she admitted to her "affairs" with the men, I was like, "What, why?" The investigator in the supermarket seemed satisfied that she wasn't guilty of anything, once she said what she had to say. So she must have been plagued by guilt to volunteer four separate statements after that, but we didn't see that, so we're left with no way to make sense of it.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Milburn Stone

[Chaos Theory]

Matt looked like he had a lot of power and control on the inside but once he and Sweat escaped he was just a fat fuck and out of his debth.  Sweat was young and agile and was actually better off on his own.

I am not sure if I feel sorry for Lyle or think he is just a dope who like everyone else is getting what he deserves by sticking with a woman who he knows is a liar and a cheat.

The truly tragic thing out of all this though is that Matt had talent as an artist.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Armchair Critic]

I have read and Ben Stiller has said that Lyle refuses to believe Tilly was fooling around with Matt and Sweat. Then how come when he visited her in prison Lyle told Tilly that he knew she was having an affair on him when she was ordering from the diet menu?

[EtheltoTillie]

On 12/30/2018 at 2:56 AM, DakotaLavender said:

Is this episode not being put up at midnight On Demand? 

Too late now but for future reference it was on Showtime Anywhere at midnight, but not on regular on demand.   They usually post episodes earlier on the SA app. I learned this while watching other shows. 

[CynicalGirl]

12 hours ago, sadie said:

Since Sweat is the one that survived I think we have to take his recollection of Matt’s forest adventures with a grain of salt.Although it wasn’t a stretch that Matt was as lazy and useless on the outside as he was helping Sweat dig so there’s that. He would have easily made Canada without him and I’m shocked it took him as long as it did to ditch Matt.  Was it just me or did Stiller almost give him a soft edit here as he almost seemed sympathetic? 

I posted a link in the media thread to an interview with Stiller in which he says he (with DelToro and Dano) met with Sweat in prison for 5 hours. Stiller described him as an "affable" guy. So yeah, I think that may have had something to do with the "soft edit". And of course we only have Sweat's version of events, but I do think he was the brains of the operation. On both the inside and outside. 

And speaking of the outside, I can almost believe that Sweat might have made it and stayed under the radar. Matt, on the other hand, would have continued a life of crime and ended up back in prison. Yes, they were both murderers, but it takes a special kind of sadism to drive around with someone in your trunk for a week, and then dismember the body. And no, I'm not saying running someone over twice isn't awful, but it's just not as up close and personal. Not that I'm trying to give him the "soft edit" too. 

[Milburn Stone]

1 hour ago, CynicalGirl said:

And speaking of the outside, I can almost believe that Sweat might have made it and stayed under the radar. Matt, on the other hand, would have continued a life of crime and ended up back in prison. Yes, they were both murderers, but it takes a special kind of sadism to drive around with someone in your trunk for a week, and then dismember the body. And no, I'm not saying running someone over twice isn't awful, but it's just not as up close and personal. Not that I'm trying to give him the "soft edit" too. 

As portrayed, the impulsivity of Sweat's crime made it seem like he was hopped up on meth or something when he did it--in other words, not his "real" self. Which may be accurate, or may be part of the "soft edit."

[Chaos Theory]

Honestly I think my favorite part was probably when Bonnie Hunts character tried to get into the prison and couldn’t get in with her phone and she commented that there was suddenly security at the prison.   I am paraphrasing a lot but I chuckled.  I also liked her scene with Sweat where she commented on how he got farther when he separated from Matt.  

Edited December 31, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[roughing it]

I would have liked one more episode - end this one with the capture then add one more episode with the aftermath more in-depth, the IG interviews with Sweat and Tillie.  I felt this part was rushed.

[leighdear]

9 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

I have read and Ben Stiller has said that Lyle refuses to believe Tilly was fooling around with Matt and Sweat. Then how come when he visited her in prison Lyle told Tilly that he knew she was having an affair on him when she was ordering from the diet menu?

That may be one of the instances where Stiller used a little creative license, for dramatic effect.  He's pointed out that the story is not a straight biography, and some of the plot points we see are a little bit of embroidery.  

And Lyle was also a liar and a cheat when he was hooking up with Tilly, both married to other people.  He gets no claim to moral high ground.  He's probably "waiting" for Tilly because he knows no other woman would really want him after that expose. 

[toogoodtobetrue]

One thing that I don't understand is how she was able to qualify for a public defender / why her husband and son couldn't afford to bail her out / why they were portrayed as pretty poor throughout the series? Lyle and Tilley's salaries are public record and she was making 57k and he was making 60-something. For that area of the country that would put them far above the average. Yet, they drove a 20  year old car, it seemed like Chinese food was a special treat, and their house seemed dilapidated. It doesn't make much sense.

 

https://www.vulture.com/2018/12/escape-at-dannemora-true-story.html

[roughing it]

I was hoping the investigators would find her Mexico stash in the trash, but either they didn't look or it wasn't shown.  Again, a little more "fill in the blanks" was needed.

[LoveLeigh]

On 12/21/2018 at 6:59 PM, chick binewski said:

This is a good point and something that's bothered me since the start of the show. I'm seeing Sweat portrayed as someone very reticent, whose crime was more of a 'wrong place, wrong time' thing than the murder of a deputy. Dano has made Sweat increasingly more compelling to watch as he focuses on the tunnel and becomes more sure of himself. To me, up until this episode Del Toro has been the center of the show - smoothly transitioning from confidante to friend to menace. That he completely unravels the minute he sticks his head out of the pothole seemed a little off.

I have no problem believing David Sweat bounced from embellishment to outright lies during his interviews, but damn that guy liked to TALK. I guess it's my belief that IRL Matt was not as smooth an operator as we see on the show (although from most accounts he was quite the con man), and that Sweat was quite a bit more aggressive than he's shown here. I've been curious what everyone else thinks regarding this as well.

It is hard to analyze them just from the TV series. In documentaries, Sweat has been called a sociopath who thinks only of himself. I read he now considers himself a "celebrity." Yet, in this show he seems likable. You can almost feel sorry for him and believe that he is telling the truth when he says he was not the murderer. There were times I actually wanted him to "make it." 

I think Matt was a demented man, seriously sick in the head. He had a total disregard for human life. During the "run," he would have killed again to get what he wanted. He was glad Tilly was caught. I think Matt had a bit of the Manson gene in him. 

[kicksave]

22 hours ago, sadie said:

Great finale to a great series!

I did want to see more of Tillys unraveling. Seeing her in her prison jumpsuit was ultimately satisfying. She remains the worst human ever and I hope when they finally let her out that society shuns her appropriately.

Since Sweat is the one that survived I think we have to take his recollection of Matt’s forest adventures with a grain of salt.Although it wasn’t a stretch that Matt was as lazy and useless on the outside as he was helping Sweat dig so there’s that. He would have easily made Canada without him and I’m shocked it took him as long as it did to ditch Matt.  Was it just me or did Stiller almost give him a soft edit here as he almost seemed sympathetic? 

Excellent job by all involved, Stiller, the actors just outstanding. 

I didn't see it as Stiller doing a soft edit but trying to show the huge differences between these two men once they were out of prison and didn't have the shared experience of being locked up anymore. Sweat had smarts and excellent survival skills. He knew how to go off the grid and how to navigate their hike through the wilderness. Basically, he was a very bright guy that engineered the escape from start to finish while Matt was strictly in charge of using Tilly to get tools and arrange for the pick up when they escape. The differences between them couldn't have been made more evident during their wilderness trek to Canada. Sweat's loyalty to Matt by not ditching him early on when he saw how weak and out of shape Matt was interesting...not sure why he hung in there with Matt for so long. 

9 hours ago, CynicalGirl said:

I posted a link in the media thread to an interview with Stiller in which he says he (with DelToro and Dano) met with Sweat in prison for 5 hours. Stiller described him as an "affable" guy. So yeah, I think that may have had something to do with the "soft edit". And of course we only have Sweat's version of events, but I do think he was the brains of the operation. On both the inside and outside. 

And speaking of the outside, I can almost believe that Sweat might have made it and stayed under the radar. Matt, on the other hand, would have continued a life of crime and ended up back in prison. Yes, they were both murderers, but it takes a special kind of sadism to drive around with someone in your trunk for a week, and then dismember the body. And no, I'm not saying running someone over twice isn't awful, but it's just not as up close and personal. Not that I'm trying to give him the "soft edit" too. 

You have to think that if Sweat had chosen a different path in life he could have used his engineering skills and survival smarts to a much better life...he could have been a successful person instead of a felon.

[Armchair Critic]

What made me laugh is how Tilly and Lyle would listen to top 40 pop music.... I picture them more as the classic rock or even country type.

[CynicalGirl]

Speaking of music, I couldn't believe I was hearing Graham Nash's "Better Days", a song I hadn't listened to in years. Also liked the Part 1 opening song, Emerson Lake and Palmer's "From the Beginning". Give me good '70s music any day. 

[roughing it]

On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 11:22 AM, Lambie said:

Tilly being recognized for the damaged person she is, even right up to the last shot of her pondering what I imagine to be her future, her actions, and one last "party."

What was this?  I replayed and still didn't understand what the guard said.  I only heard "party", the rest was garbled to me.

[Armchair Critic]

1 minute ago, roughing it said:

What was this?  I replayed and still didn't understand what the guard said.  I only heard "party", the rest was garbled to me.

The "party" was in his pants. 

[CynicalGirl]

Yeah, he was dirty. Funny how things in prison hadn't changed much for Tilly, except which side of the bars she was on. 

[ElderPrice]

4 hours ago, toogoodtobetrue said:

One thing that I don't understand is how she was able to qualify for a public defender / why her husband and son couldn't afford to bail her out / why they were portrayed as pretty poor throughout the series? Lyle and Tilley's salaries are public record and she was making 57k and he was making 60-something. For that area of the country that would put them far above the average. Yet, they drove a 20  year old car, it seemed like Chinese food was a special treat, and their house seemed dilapidated. It doesn't make much sense.

I live in the Adirondacks and I don’t get it either. Up here, just one of their salaries would have them living very comfortably, with both of them working they should have had plenty of discretionary money. 

Matt and Sweat picked the worst time of the year to run away into the mountains. Early June is still mud season, it’s rainy, humid and also blackfly season. Those little suckers cover you in clouds that time of year. 

[ElderPrice]

2 hours ago, roughing it said:

What was this?  I replayed and still didn't understand what the guard said.  I only heard "party", the rest was garbled to me.

The guard said “I like to throw a party for a girl’s last night here. Think about it.” But yeah, he meant in his pants. 

[leighdear]

6 hours ago, toogoodtobetrue said:

One thing that I don't understand is how she was able to qualify for a public defender / why her husband and son couldn't afford to bail her out / why they were portrayed as pretty poor throughout the series? Lyle and Tilley's salaries are public record and she was making 57k and he was making 60-something. For that area of the country that would put them far above the average. Yet, they drove a 20  year old car, it seemed like Chinese food was a special treat, and their house seemed dilapidated. It doesn't make much sense.

 

https://www.vulture.com/2018/12/escape-at-dannemora-true-story.html

Maybe Lyle was paying hefty alimony to his ex, as he cheated on her.  Possibly Tilly had a nasty custody battle for Kenny, Jr.  Expensive repairs to their crap house.  Back taxes owed for years.  Medical bills and sub-standard insurance.  Lots of ways 2 people with healthy salaries can piss it away and have very little to show for it.  

Edited January 1, 2019 by leighdear

[Milburn Stone]

3 hours ago, kicksave said:

Sweat's loyalty to Matt by not ditching him early on when he saw how weak and out of shape Matt was interesting...not sure why he hung in there with Matt for so long.

I think we were meant to see Sweat not just as more capable than Matt, but also a "better person" than Matt. A truly decent person whose life got messed up by drugs and went off the rails. Whether that's true or not, it was the show's point of view. It was expressed right up till the end, with Bonnie Hunt seeming sincerely moved by his loyalty to his friend. (I realize her empathy was also a tactic, designed to get him to talk, because information-gathering was her one and only mission. And the seeming genuineness of her emotion could have merely been evidence that she was superb at her job. But I don't think it was merely that.)

Edited January 1, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[CynicalGirl]

^ ITA. He definitely got the best edit of the three. The only one who might garner the slightest bit of sympathy from the viewers. Again, I think that might be due to Stiller et al meeting with him, and I believe I also read that Arquette did too. 

[kicksave]

Matt was a socio/psychopath...Sweat was just effed up. I think Sweat could have been rehabilitated earlier in his life but Matt was doomed to be a lifer or die committing more crimes.

[LoveIsJoy]

Does anyone know if Lyle continued working at the prison?  The closing credits said he still lived in the area and was waiting for Tilly to be released, but I'm just wondering what he's actually doing now.

[Armchair Critic]

Quote

 

Lyle — who’s depicted as an electrician on the show but was actually a prison tailor — no longer works at Clinton and collects disability. He still lives in the couple’s home in Dickinson Center, about an hour from Dannemora. And he is still devoted to Tillie, even taking in her ailing 77-year-old mother, Joyce Clookey.

Besotted Lyle even built his wife, who is eligible for parole in June 2019 after two denials in 2017, a backyard gazebo — something she said she wanted upon her release. “He’s waiting for her to come home,” said Bill, who lives down the road.

 

There's more info in this article about Lyle and Tilly and what the people from the area think about them:

Escape At Dannemora Has Divided This Small Upstate New York Town

[Drogo]

4 hours ago, ElderPrice said:

The guard said “I like to throw a party for a girl’s last night here. Think about it.” But yeah, he meant in his pants. 

Like the intimate parties Tilly threw in the machine room.

[Andromeda]

12 hours ago, kicksave said:

You have to think that if Sweat had chosen a different path in life he could have used his engineering skills and survival smarts to a much better life...he could have been a successful person instead of a felon.

I had the same thought about Matt. He may not have made it as a fine art painter, but he could have made a good living as an Illustrator. And I did get the feeling Sweat would have gone on to live the straight and narrow.

I agree that I would have liked to see a few more scenes outlining Tilly's downfall, both from the police perspective and hers. And the prison's, for that matter. I got the feeling she couldn't resist sharing what she knew because it was a big story. In the first episode, she asked the IG if she would get her old job back!

This article helped remove my sympathy for Sweat, but he might have been redeemable since he was so young. Matt, however, belonged where he was forever. 

. http://nypost.com/2015/06/28/how-the-shaw-skank-killers-pulled-off-their-prison-break/

Edited January 1, 2019 by Andromeda
Article link

[Brooklynista]

14 hours ago, ElderPrice said:

 

Matt and Sweat picked the worst time of the year to run away into the mountains. Early June is still mud season, it’s rainy, humid and also blackfly season. Those little suckers cover you in clouds that time of year. 

After watching Sweat navigate the woods so confidently even while dragging Matt along, I would have loved to see what he could do on a season of Alone.

[lezlers]

On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 12:28 PM, WaltersHair said:

It was interesting to see tough Matt devolve into clueless idiot once out of the prison.  Drinking and acting a fool in the deep woods.

I loved the look Sweat got in his eyes like a man who knows the marriage has gone off the rails and it's time to get out. I don't know if he had died if that would have been a better ending. The state of New York has spent so much on him already. Solitary. Was it worth it, Dave?

They did Joyce's son wrong, though. He was Air Force and they don't take idiots that I know of.

And Joyce was Joyce. If Lyle is waiting for her, then bless him.

Great acting, and production all around.

Well, they couldn't have had him die since he's still alive.  I think for a guy like Sweat, a large number of years in solitary is a great punishment.  He'll go insane.  Although:

Spoiler

Apparently he's got a new girlfriend (with a six year old daughter) visiting him regularly.  So he's still managing to keep up human connections.  I guess they allow people in solitary to have visitors.  Who knew?

Joyce's son actually does still support her to this day, so that part was accurate.  It's kind of amazing that he does.  I mean, she stole his real father from him!  He didn't look THAT young when all that stuff went down so he should still have SOME memory of it.

I thought it was a great ending.  Matt being so awful made me sympathetic for Sweat, despite looking forward to both of them being caught after Episode 6.  I have little doubt Sweat would've made it if he hadn't been slowed down by Matt (who made my skin crawl.) 18 miles in 2 days vs 20 miles in 21 days?  Jesus.  Looks like they were essentially just hanging out in the forest with Matt drunk while they were together.  

[lezlers]

On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 5:19 AM, Milburn Stone said:

As portrayed, the impulsivity of Sweat's crime made it seem like he was hopped up on meth or something when he did it--in other words, not his "real" self. Which may be accurate, or may be part of the "soft edit."

He was also really young, I believe in his very early twenties.  Shit, his brain wasn't even fully developed yet.  He was 35 when he broke out.  Matt was completely irredeemable and I'm glad he's dead.  I believe, like others have said, Sweat wasn't beyond redemption.

22 hours ago, toogoodtobetrue said:

One thing that I don't understand is how she was able to qualify for a public defender / why her husband and son couldn't afford to bail her out / why they were portrayed as pretty poor throughout the series? Lyle and Tilley's salaries are public record and she was making 57k and he was making 60-something. For that area of the country that would put them far above the average. Yet, they drove a 20  year old car, it seemed like Chinese food was a special treat, and their house seemed dilapidated. It doesn't make much sense.

 

https://www.vulture.com/2018/12/escape-at-dannemora-true-story.html

I'm a public defender.  Our cut off is 2K a month or owning any property.  However, we get appointed on people that don't qualify all the time, subject to fees.  Usually when someone won't retain private counsel claiming they can't afford it (despite assets showing otherwise) and the judge doesn't want to deal with them in pro per status..  It kind of pisses me off.  My boss once made me represent another attorney who was busted for DUI while driving an expensive rental sportscar.  I was not amused.  Being forced to represent people that can clearly afford private counsel directly steals resources from those that really can't (a good chunk of my clients are legitimately homeless.)  I've gotten into arguments more than a few times with people claiming destitution and demanding I represent them who earn more annually than I do.  People have a lot of nerve.

Edited January 1, 2019 by lezlers

[lezlers]

15 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I think we were meant to see Sweat not just as more capable than Matt, but also a "better person" than Matt. A truly decent person whose life got messed up by drugs and went off the rails. Whether that's true or not, it was the show's point of view. It was expressed right up till the end, with Bonnie Hunt seeming sincerely moved by his loyalty to his friend. (I realize her empathy was also a tactic, designed to get him to talk, because information-gathering was her one and only mission. And the seeming genuineness of her emotion could have merely been evidence that she was superb at her job. But I don't think it was merely that.)

There's a great podcast about this show by the creators an two episodes featured an interview with Ms. Lehey Scott.  You should check it out.  It's called Real Crime Profile.

[Milburn Stone]

42 minutes ago, lezlers said:

There's a great podcast about this show by the creators an two episodes featured an interview with Ms. Lehey Scott.  You should check it out.  It's called Real Crime Profile.

Thanks, @lezlers. I've found the two episodes devoted to the IG. (Episodes 154 and 155, for anyone else who wants to know.) Will listen with interest!

Edited January 1, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[kicksave]

I would like to add that the acting was really very good by all but Paul Dano was a standout. He's come a long way from "Little Miss Sunshine"...very impressive performance and Benecio Del Toro (sp?) was quite good as a ruthless sociopath. I did read the NY Post article on Joyce Mitchell that someone posted on here...wow. She is more awful in person than on the series. Denies any wrong doing, denies she had consensual sex, denies that she cheated on Lyle or her first husband. And her tone is both belligerent and self righteous. She has no friends and the townspeople hate her...they don't want her back there when she is released. A truly unlikable and negative person.

Edited January 1, 2019 by kicksave

[Joimiaroxeu]

"Egscaped." What was that accent Tilly and Lyle had?

I unexpectedly liked Michael Imperioli as Governor Cuomo. Kept waiting for someone to call him Christofuh though. (Had to laugh when I saw that painting of Tony Soprano in the epilogue.)

Didn't the prisoners know Tilly had been banging Matt and Sweat in the back room? At least the ones in the tailor shop must have. Surprising that they didn't blow Tilly's cover right away.

Poor Lyle. He had no idea what a horrifically selfish nutbag he was married to. It was like he was living in an alternate reality. Still is, apparently.

Forget honor among thieves or fellow convicts, I think Sweat should've killed Matt the first chance he got. Matt was a drunken psychopath and was always going to be an albatross around Sweat's neck. Odds are Matt wouldn't have survived long on his own anyway. He couldn't really handle freedom once it was no longer a fantasy.

Congrats, Ben Stiller, you get all the awards. And Patricia Arquette gets the rest. This was one of the best short series I've ever seen. I bet the Emmys are going to come down to a battle between this show and Dirty John, assuming they'll be in a separate category from regular dramas.

Edited January 1, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[Thalia]

Add me to the list of those who are disappointed by the lack of Tilly scenes in the finale.  I thought one of the show's most powerful scenes, as far as drawing me into the story, was the initial meeting between Tilly and Leahy Scott.  I sat through the entire series waiting for more Bonnie Hunt.  And I would have loved to have seen more about how the cops broke Tilly down -- or failed to, as the case may be, since it sounds like she's still denying everything.  

Amazing that both men had skills that would have translated into jobs on the outside.  Sweat with construction and Matt with technical drawing, or even as one of those people who draws pictures of people at tourist attractions.  But I'm guessing they didn't have great childhoods, and that overworked teachers were unable to give them much attention.  Sad. 

[Tippi]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Didn't the prisoners know Tilly had been banging Matt and Sweat in the back? At least the ones in the tailor shop must have. Surprising that they didn't blow Tilly's cover right away.

I really don't know what to think about this as well.  Sweat was moved and she was reprimanded, but it seems to me that the inmates and the male guards that worked in the sewing shop would have been happy to report all they knew to the prison admins.  Once Sweat was moved and then she continued to sex it up with Matt--no one reported all that suspicious activity going on in the back room all over again?  Tilly said "They're watching me like a hawk" but hard nosed boss lady that had it in for Tilly didn't follow up?

I guess what is bugging me about this series is the question in the back of my mind--did it really happen this way?  Gene Palmer's actions, prison life, the tunneling, the time on the run, Lyle, all rang true to me.  I'm not convinced about the sexual activity shown between Tilly, Sweat, and Matt.  I could see an unfulfilled infatuation with Sweat that Matt could turn to blackmailing Tilly, clinched with a forced oral sex encounter.  The letter that Tilly wrote to Sweat, the naked selfies--are these verified?  Maybe I should read the IG's report--I wish the show had covered a bit more of that in the end.

[Chaos Theory]

5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Didn't the prisoners know Tilly had been banging Matt and Sweat in the back room? At least the ones in the tailor shop must have. Surprising that they didn't blow Tilly's cover right away.

 

 

One of the really interesting things about this project is that Ben Stiller used real ex guards and inmates.  One of them Erik Jensen was both a character in the story and is credited as consultant for the project.  If you were on twitter for the show he actually answered questions of what life was like during those days and he knew all the players involved.   What he said was that no one knew for sure they were having an affair but  the inmates joked that Sweat would go into the store room for special time with his girl.  

Edited January 2, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[msrachelj]

On 12/30/2018 at 3:28 PM, WaltersHair said:

It was interesting to see tough Matt devolve into clueless idiot once out of the prison.  Drinking and acting a fool in the deep woods.

I loved the look Sweat got in his eyes like a man who knows the marriage has gone off the rails and it's time to get out. I don't know if he had died if that would have been a better ending. The state of New York has spent so much on him already. Solitary. Was it worth it, Dave?

They did Joyce's son wrong, though. He was Air Force and they don't take idiots that I know of.

And Joyce was Joyce. If Lyle is waiting for her, then bless him.

Great acting, and production all around.

great series. joyce needs therapy. very unhappy woman. as for the air force not taking idiots, the military as a whole will pretty much take anyone with few exceptions.  there are bad and dumb people everywhere. 

[WaltersHair]

Quote

as for the air force not taking idiots, the military as a whole will pretty much take anyone with few exceptions.  there are bad and dumb people everywhere. 

I just remember back in the 90's when I was in school, the advanced Air Force scholarship was the most sought after and supposedly the hardest to get of the three branches. Those people had money to burn and never paid a dime for books compared to the rest of us on regular, multiple loans. I suppose things have changed drastically in the past 20 years (including a war), but that idea has always stuck with me.

[Quilt Fairy]

This is the NY IG's report: https://ig.ny.gov/sites/default/files/pdfs/DOCCS Clinton Report FINAL_1.pdf 

I'm not even half-way through (it's 154 pages!) but it's in clear English, it doesn't read like a legal or government document.   As with most "inspired by a true story" shows, some events in the timeline are condensed, altered, or simplified, but nothing that materially affects the story.  The sole exception is Tilly and Sweat having intercourse, which both of them deny.