S01.E09: Dead Reckoning

[ElectricBoogaloo]

MID SEASON FINALE!

Quote

When Ben and Michaela put everything on the line to save the other missing passengers, the mission goes horribly awry and not everyone makes it out alive. The devastating result pushes Ben and Grace to a traumatic brink, while pulling Michaela and Jared dangerously close together.

 

Promo:

Original air date: 11/26/18

[CleoCaesar]

That was kind of a low-key finale. I didn't even realize it was the finale until the "Returns January 7th" promo.

Not buying Vance is dead. This is TV. No body, no death.

Ah, extended machine-gun fire in small enclosed places. Everyone in those scenes should have ruptured eardrums and profound hearing loss. But nope, they’re fine. Shit like that just takes me out of supposedly intense scenes.

I wish they’d stop having the actors do hysterical blubbering scenes when there clearly aren’t any tears. It looks goofy. Eyebrows in particular can’t cry convincingly.

But most importantly, Grace needs to be run over by a car. I loathe her.

[Frost]

Argh!!!  Ben needs to stop being so damn nice and tell Grace to go bungee jumping off a tall cliff with a really really long cord.  He's being way too understanding.  I keep wanting him to snap and tell her SHE has no idea what HE'S going through!  It works both ways Grace!

Very interesting that she only went on and on about grieving Cal and what Cal's gravestone cost, etc.  No shed tears over her husband apparently.

Why did they trust the doctor to take off with all the patients?  Without telling anyone where she was taking them?  Just that she knew a 'safe place.'  And why on earth do they believe Vance is dead?  Because someone told them?  After all the official lies, why would they believe anything?

What was up with Ben's vision of the peacock?  

Was anyone left alive to testify about the lab?  Besides Ben, Michaela, and Jared....and Vance?  

[Suzysite]

2 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

But most importantly, Grace needs to be run over by a car. I loathe her.

This, times a million.

[stealinghome]

I thought for sure the big tunnel explosion was going to be the fall cliffhanger, so props to the show for swerving on that one! Overall, that was a very solid fall finale. I’m glad the show ended on a relatively high note. Some reactions:

Fiona has got to be SO PISSED that mirror neurons exist and she’s not sharing in them, lol! I really like her as an addition to the team, but it seemed to happen absurdly quickly. Also she found a remote property and she can just take the rescued missing passengers there? Yeah, okay. Also, I’m super glad the “escaped passenger” was a plant. The idea that she could just wander off when the prisoner-passengers were being transported was so ridiculously farfetched that I was ready to call major plot hole. But real question, what is the woman’s incentive to keep playing along? Why not just be in the free and clear now?

I really, really rolled my eyes when Cal showed up to tell the adults where to look. OF COURSE The Chosen One had to show up and save the day. That said, I did like the misdirection of the black site being next to the warehouse. It’s a clever move.

I like the idea that some of the passengers are very specifically linked one-on-one, so hopefully the show will eventually explore that.

Grace can go fuck herself with a cactus. Lady, Ben tried to tell you about this shit but you blew him off and called him crazy. HE IS KEEPING CAL SAFE. Isn’t that what you want? Or would you rather Cal die while Ben just sits around and does nothing??? Since it is ~oh so awful to mourn your kid, I'd think you'd WANT Ben to keep him safe. JFC. It’s amazing how insufferable she’s become in the last 3 episodes—can she hurry up and get off my screen? Please, someone should kill HER off in a big explosion.  Or, oooh, actually, can Grace be the next person to know about the callings and die??? Please?!?! Also, why is Ben not allowed to tell her that she’s insufferable? Why is everyone acting like she is the wounded party when she’s being a heinous bitch? Die in a fire, Grace, die in a fire. At some point I really hope they allow Ben to ream her the fuck out. Also…WHY IS CAL NOT WITH BEN??? That’s absurd. Grace can’t protect him and has no idea about any of the weird calling stuff. I guess it’s a logistical thing—Ben can’t be off being a superspy if he’s gotta watch Cal constantly—BUT STILL.

Poor, poor Danny. He definitely deserves better than Grace. But…that now clears the way for Saanvi Ben! Saanvi/Ben 5ever!!!

I’m torn as to whether I think Vance is actually dead (not seeing the body feels like they’re at least leaving it open for him to return), but if he is: OF COURSE Vance died. OF COURSE. Just when he got interesting…but it was too easy for the passengers to have a high-ranking governmental ally. The board had to be re-set. So even if he comes back, he will be officially dead and not able to help them in an official capacity anymore.

Did the corporate guy die?

Ben, Michaela, and Jared are so pretty when they’re scuffed up! Also Michaela’s breakdown at the hospital was good. The actress is capable when they give her something to do that’s not be a stoic brick wall.

I’m actually totally down for Ben and Michaela sharing an apartment, because the two of them do have a nice rapport when they’re allowed to talk. Ben putting his head on her knee was a really sweet moment.

I kind of want the peacock just to be a NBC shout-out, lol, but I'm sure it will come up down the road.

[tennisgurl]

"Uggg, my husband is the worst! He runs around trying to save our sons life, including running into gunfire to protect him! He risks his life to save innocent people from being tortured by some shady corporation after he worked endlessly to solve the mystery of their disappearance! When I ask him to tell me the truth, he just...does it! He has been nothing but dedicated to my family just weeks after finding out that he lost five years of his life! I better kick his ass to the curb!" -Grace, apparently. 

[Moose135]

There's no way Vance is dead.  I think Grace needs a few sessions of electroshock therapy and see how she feels about all this.  Funny how she was so upset about losing her son when the plane disappeared, but not so much her husband.  Interesting how Lourdes wasn't at her husband's bedside in the hospital...

[meggonzo]

I don't trust Fiona taking all the missing passengers with her.  What were the papers she found and took with her?

Is the guy in charge of the experiment dead?  He was the first guy Michaela saw on the ground, right?  I'm wondering who the "escaped" passenger was texting at the end.

[Maverick]

 So Fiona is totally sketch, right?

 Wasn't Michaela living with Ben?   Why aren't they going to their father's house? 

 If the Calling's really are offing people, can we move Grace up in line? 

[CCTC]

I can see why Grace is upset, and technically she is not a bad actress, but the character just does not exude any empathy to anyone else, and her hurt seems to  come of as more of a woe is me rather than a sympathetic vulnerability.   She also did not seem to be too concerned how upset her kids were when Ben left and was saying good bye - she was just feeling sorry for herself. 

And yes, she should have had a bit more curiosity of what just happened - her son had some sort of vision and found her husband and they were at some sort of explosion.   She maybe could have shown some interest her husband risked his life while saving multiple lives.  Something is obviously going on and she has seen enough that she should know her husband might be onto to something about how Cal is affected.  I think it is easier for her to use this as an excuse to break up with Ben so she can have an excuse to cry on Danny's shoulder.  It is easier for her to ignore what is happening right in front of her, because it is all about how things affect her.

It would not shock me if Vance was alive - which I would not mind because I like the actor/character.

I thought it was a pretty solid episode.  

[Amy Beth]

The lights that Ben saw to get out of the black site were supposed to be the lights that illuminate the aisle during a plane’s emergency landing, right?

[SimoneS]

Chiming in to say: Michaela and Jared are hot together and obviously still love each other. He needs to dump his wife and go back to her.

The comments about Grace are hilarious. Yes, she is a pain, but I feel for her. She is being thrown under the bus so that Ben can hook up with the gorgeous Saanvi. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by SimoneS

[tennisgurl]

If Michaela really is killing people by telling them about the Calling, maybe she could have a little hart to hart with Grace...

I thought that was a pretty good mid season finale, we actually accomplished some stuff! I thought we would end with them missing the evil scientists again, but they actually did find them, and save the people! We even got some arrests made! It was fun seeing a bunch of people all working together (I especially thought the little conflict between Saanvi and Fiona as scientists was interesting) and we actually got real results! I dont buy that Vance is dead at all. No body, no death, especially in this kind of conspiracy plot. At least, I hope he is still alive, I like him a lot. He brings a lot to the mystery as the guy on the inside who has some authority to actually get stuff done with the weight of the government behind him, and is actually trying to do some good. 

I knew that woman was sketchy! I am also not sure I trust Fiona, I think there is a good chance she knows more than she is letting on. She did run off awful quickly with all of those people, huh? I dont know, but I am interested in finding out, I think the actress is really good. 

Grace is just the worst. I dont blame her for being mad that ben didnt tell her about the job, but the hissing "GET AWAAAY" stuff and acting like he kidnapped Cal or something, like this is all his fault, is just so terribly selfish and lacking in empathy towards her own husband. She never really seems like she feels for him or cares about what all he is clearly going through. Like, have we ever seen her asking him how he is about finding out his mom is dead?! And she acts like she has some monopoly on parent grief and stress, when Ben was right there with her for Cal's treatment, and while she keeps on going on about how much she missed her son (and never her husband I guess) she hardly seems to spend time with him. I dont know if its the actress, or the writing, or both, but there is just no warmth in her performance. It comes off like she is annoyed that Ben and Cal are back and interrupted her nice life with Danny and Olive, and cant be bothered with thinking about what they've gone through. Really, it just seems like she was looking for an excuse to ditch Ben and run off back to Danny. 

Well, Ben can do better anyway. You know Ben, Saanvi is single...

And then a peacock! Is a Katie Perry video about to start? Or is Ben seeing the fourth wall, and realizing he is on NBC? I cant help rolling my eyes at Cal. When they let Cal be a normal kid, like last week when he was at school sitting with his old friends, who are now all much older, I like him just fine, but as the Savior or whatever? Not interested. 

Jared and Michaela have pretty good chemistry. Maybe they and Lourdes can all make something work next go around?!

[stealinghome]

Quote

but the hissing "GET AWAAAY" stuff and acting like he kidnapped Cal or something, like this is all his fault, is just so terribly selfish and lacking in empathy towards her own husband.

Especially when Cal ran off under her watch! One could make the argument that SHE was the one who endangered Cal by not keeping a closer eye on him, if we're going to play the irrational blame game.

I just realized--Grace is so actively annoying to me because she's got the Regina Problem, for those that watched OUAT. The problem isn't how she's acting, precisely, it's that the narrative is framing her (and thus the other characters are reacting to her) as if she's right, when in fact she's totally and completely wrong.

Quote

Jared and Michaela have pretty good chemistry. Maybe they and Lourdes can all make something work next go around?!

That's what I'm saying! It would be a far more interesting storyline than the inevitable eventual Michaela/Jared hookup.

Edited November 27, 2018 by stealinghome

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

But most importantly, Grace needs to be run over by a car. I loathe her.

3 hours ago, Suzysite said:

This, times a million.

 

 

3 hours ago, Frost said:

Ben needs to stop being so damn nice and tell Grace to go bungee jumping off a tall cliff with a really really long cord.  He's being way too understanding.  I keep wanting him to snap and tell her SHE has no idea what HE'S going through!  It works both ways Grace!

 

3 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Grace can go fuck herself with a cactus. Lady, Ben tried to tell you about this shit but you blew him off and called him crazy. HE IS KEEPING CAL SAFE. Isn’t that what you want? Or would you rather Cal die while Ben just sits around and does nothing??? Since it is ~oh so awful to mourn your kid, I'd think you'd WANT Ben to keep him safe. JFC. It’s amazing how insufferable she’s become in the last 3 episodes—can she hurry up and get off my screen? Please, someone should kill HER off in a big explosion.  Or, oooh, actually, can Grace be the next person to know about the callings and die??? Please?!?! Also, why is Ben not allowed to tell her that she’s insufferable? Why is everyone acting like she is the wounded party when she’s being a heinous bitch? Die in a fire, Grace, die in a fire. At some point I really hope they allow Ben to ream her the fuck out. Also…WHY IS CAL NOT WITH BEN??? That’s absurd. Grace can’t protect him and has no idea about any of the weird calling stuff. I guess it’s a logistical thing—Ben can’t be off being a superspy if he’s gotta watch Cal constantly—BUT STILL.

 

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

"Uggg, my husband is the worst! He runs around trying to save my our life, including running into gunfire to protect him! He risks his life to save innocent people from being tortured by some shady corporation after he worked endlessly to solve the mystery of their disappearance! When I ask him to tell me the truth, he just...does it! He has been nothing but dedicated to my family just weeks after finding out that he lost five years of his life! I better kick his ass to the curb!" -Grace, apparently. 

Grace is literally the dumbest most self-absorbed dummy on this show, which is truly saying something because there are some really stupid characters on this show.

These are the things that Grace knows to be true: her husband, son, and sister-in-law went missing on a plane for 5 years, the NSA is investigating what happened to her family, her husband has been working as a junior accountant for like two weeks, which somehow warrants corporate security showing up to his house on a weekend to collect his things when he's fired, and her kid disappears out from under her nose to schlep across town because of a vision about a law enforcement raid. Way to miss the forest for the trees dumbass.

It's pretty clear that something super weird and sketchy is going on even if Grace doesn't have access to all of the info. And if Grace's rant had been about how shut out she feels, I'd have sided with her. It wasn't, which is why she comes across like a selfish asshole. It wouldn't have been that hard to have her express about how alone she still feels even though Ben, Cal, and Mikaela are back.

Even worse is that Grace has been left to carry the bulk of the non-mystery readjusting to the return of the 828ers storyline; neither the writing nor the character are up to the task. Whereas Olive's scenes have been far more effective at conveying this.

Edited November 27, 2018 by HunterHunted

[lala2]

I cannot stand Grace. Honestly, I've never liked the character, and she's only become more annoying and insufferable in the last few episodes.

The truth of the matter is she's no longer in love w/her husband. She fell in love w/Danny, but felt obligated to go back to Ben b/c he had just returned from this horrific ordeal.  She knows she's no longer in love w/him, but she's just too gutless and spineless to tell him. She has probably been waiting for any excuse to ditch him and run back to Danny. I think that's what's really happening here.

I mean your husband has been gone for five freaking years. He, your son, and SIL return the exact same age as when they left w/no memory as to where they've been or what happened to them. Clearly, something weird and supernatural occurred w/them, so when your husband tells you he must protect your son, you cannot give this man the benefit of the doubt?!?! You can't trust him even a little?!?! It makes me wonder if she ever trusted him. 

Grace is awful. She's the most unsupportive, self-absorbed, clueless spouse I've seen on a show in a long time. 

[Elih143]

40 minutes ago, Amy Beth said:

The lights that Ben saw to get out of the black site were supposed to be the lights that illuminate the aisle during a plane’s emergency landing, right?

Good catch. Yes. I didn't notice that when it was on.

[Elih143]

So I literally came looking for a forum to post my disgust with the drama they have the Grace character to and her hubby play all teary eyed about. Many moons ago now my wife wanted the whole divorce thing. I showed her the teary eye because it suited my purpose. It was genuine, I wasn't faking. I was hurt and upset. I was also livid. When she tried the "you need to move out routine" she was literally shocked when I explained to her that if she wanted out of the relationship, she needed to leave. She tried to argue and my response was a simple, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. And by the way, take your kids buy leave our son right where he is." It's amazing how the tune changes when they realize they were never really in control.

 

So when I see these sappy scenes play out on TV time and time again, playing up the strong woman, weaker man idea, it pisses me off. I taught my son that friends come and go. It doesn't matter whether it is a school friend or "the love of your life". Sometimes they leave. There are plenty of fish in the sea and the better of a friend you are the easier they are to catch. He waited a long time to get into a serious relationship but I think he has hit it out of the park. I don't think I've ever seen a more balanced couple. They change who takes the lead in a situation and who follows so seamlessly that if they're still together in 20 years they should write a book.

Screw Hollywood and their portrayal of men as wimpy teary eyed, oh please don't leave me baby buffoons. I imagined that I'd run into a bunch of people defending the strong woman. Glad to see that 100% of you think that she is just acting like a self serving, short sighted b*tch.

 

Okay, off my soapbox now. Thanks for reading and now back to regular programming.

[Frost]

In the boiler room, Fiona didn't react to the shock like everyone else.  She was kind in the background, but Ben, saanvi, Michaela and the spy were all clutching their heads while Vance looked bewildered.  I don't think she was affected.  Why not?

Were the lights Ben's first vision?  He's heard the calling multiple times, but he didn't see the stone angel.  And now also the peacock.  Damn, it would be hard to go through life not knowing if what you see is real or not.

[Elih143]

1 hour ago, CCTC said:

I can see why Grace is upset, and technically she is not a bad actress.  

 

I have nothing against the actress myself. My disgust is directed at the character and the writers that constantly portray the woman in the relationship as the one in control and the man as the one who serves at her pleasure. Hollywood writers don't seem to want to portray relationships as two way streets.

1 hour ago, Moose135 said:

There's no way Vance is dead.  I think Grace needs a few sessions of electroshock therapy and see how she feels about all this.  Funny how she was so upset about losing her son when the plane disappeared, but not so much her husband.  Interesting how Lourdes wasn't at her husband's bedside in the hospital...

Hell yeah he is not dead. They did everything but show us his personal life. Doubt NBC would write him out like that.

[stealinghome]

4 minutes ago, Frost said:

In the boiler room, Fiona didn't react to the shock like everyone else.  She was kind in the background, but Ben, saanvi, Michaela and the spy were all clutching their heads while Vance looked bewildered.  I don't think she was affected.  Why not?

It seems like Fiona’s not getting the callings, nor was she linked to any of the passengers who were being tested on. Whatever is linking all the 828ers seems to be leaving her out for the time being.

If Vance was gonna die, he could at least have sprung Bethany before he did so!

4 minutes ago, Frost said:

Were the lights Ben's first vision?  He's heard the calling multiple times, but he didn't see the stone angel.  And now also the peacock.  Damn, it would be hard to go through life not knowing if what you see is real or not.

Good catch, I actually do think this is Ben’s first vision. Good thing the callings know when to come and when not to come.... They never hit at overly inconvenient times!

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, CleoCaesar said:

I wish they’d stop having the actors do hysterical blubbering scenes when there clearly aren’t any tears. It looks goofy. Eyebrows in particular can’t cry convincingly.

That blubberfest by Michaela while praying to Jeebus/The Callings/whatever was pretty bad.  Of course, now Michaela is convinced that Jared surviving was an answer to prayer.
 

1 hour ago, Frost said:

Very interesting that she only went on and on about grieving Cal and what Cal's gravestone cost, etc.  No shed tears over her husband apparently.

Why did they trust the doctor to take off with all the patients?  Without telling anyone where she was taking them?  Just that she knew a 'safe place.'  And why on earth do they believe Vance is dead?  Because someone told them?  After all the official lies, why would they believe anything?

What was up with Ben's vision of the peacock?  

I guess Grace got Ben's tombstone at the dollar store, and she grieved for Ben for at least 10 minutes.

I'm thinking that Fiona is just going to continue the experiments on her own -- in conjunction with funding from the Singularity Project. 
I think Belsen is definitely dead, so a position just opened up.

As for Ben's peacock vision, it is November sweeps so  ...... N ..... B ..... C.

[Elih143]

I think you're all wrong about Fiona.

[djinn]

1 hour ago, CCTC said:

 I think it is easier for her to use this as an excuse to break up with Ben so she can have an excuse to cry on Danny's shoulder. 

BINGO!!!! Grace has been stomping at the bits to have Ben out of the picture for a while now..... I bet she'll go crying/crawling back to Ben when Cal's in serious trouble....

19 minutes ago, Frost said:

In the boiler room, Fiona didn't react to the shock like everyone else.

Ahh... good catch! She wasn't affected. Why not? Also, does she now want to continue the experiments - but perhaps in a more benign way - up at her remote location?

 

Vance had better NOT be dead. The peacock often denotes "eyes", and also, may symbolize resurrection, renewal and immortality. Ben's vision of one may mean that now he will be able to "see", have visions. Perhaps that part of his brain was activated, and Cal had received the memo. I hope Michaela can continue to connect with the "network" and get help from there, just as she though she did with Jared, whose brain may have a received a neural jolt after her request.

[Elih143]

16 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

That blubberfest by Michaela while praying to Jeebus/The Callings/whatever was pretty bad.  Of course, now Michaela is convinced that Jared surviving was an answer to prayer.
 

I guess Grace got Ben's tombstone at the dollar store, and she grieved for Ben for at least 10 minutes.

I'm thinking that Fiona is just going to continue the experiments on her own -- in conjunction with funding from the Singularity Project. 
I think Belsen is definitely dead, so a position just opened up.

As for Ben's peacock vision, it is November sweeps so  ...... N ..... B ..... C.

 

Peacock>>>> NBC. I get it. LOL

I pondered the tombstone thing for a second before my mind ran off to the "don't puss out" path. Glad I'm not the only one who caught that.

[Elih143]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Chiming in to say: Michaela and Jared are hot together and obviously still love each other. He needs to dump his wife and go back to her.

The comments about Grace are hilarious. Yes, she is a pain, but I feel for her. She being thrown under the bus so that Ben can hook up with the gorgeous Saanvi. 

Oh you're just sympathizing with her because she's black and female. So racist and sexist of you. ;-) Whereas on the flipside my sympathies for Ben's position has nothing to do with him being white and male. :-)

[llongori]

37 minutes ago, Elih143 said:

So I literally came looking for a forum to post my disgust with the drama they have the Grace character to and her hubby play all teary eyed about. Many moons ago now my wife wanted the whole divorce thing. I showed her the teary eye because it suited my purpose. It was genuine, I wasn't faking. I was hurt and upset. I was also livid. When she tried the "you need to move out routine" she was literally shocked when I explained to her that if she wanted out of the relationship, she needed to leave. She tried to argue and my response was a simple, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. And by the way, take your kids buy leave our son right where he is." It's amazing how the tune changes when they realize they were never really in control.

I so wanted Ben to say NO when Grace told him he needed to leave.  They don't need to be "married" but there's no reason why he needs to leave RIGHT NOW.  He knows he needs to stay near Cal.  If he doesn't, Cal will just come to him when Cal feels the need.  Grace doesn't understand and doesn't want to understand.  His first priority should be to protect his kids.

 

I like that Josh Dallas is getting to show more range as an actor than he was allowed on OUAT.  The storylines need some improvement, but he's doing well with what he's being given.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Not buying Vance is dead. This is TV. No body, no death.

Thank you all for reminding me of the (especially scifi) TV show axiom of "no body, no death." And they did tell us that he at least made it out of the explosion alive.

So Vance is either:

1. Hiding out, pretending to be dead
2. Kidnapped, with his death staged

 

So, now that presumably the entire viewing audience hates Grace, at the end of the season, either:

1. Grace will have her eyes opened, repent mightily, and have a tearful reunion with Prince Charming 
2. Grace will die a heroic, violent death after she sees the error of her ways 

 

I hope the double agent girl turns triple agent.

 

I hope Fiona is a good guy. They did make a point of showing in the experiment that not everyone was effected.

Edited November 27, 2018 by shapeshifter

[Camera One]

I liked everyone working together again, though I had to laugh when Michaela and Jared decided to join in the special ops party. 

I would be annoyed if Vance really is dead, right when his dynamic with the others was getting good.  He has either been kidnapped by the big bad, or he's smart enough to fake his own death (I hope the latter). [Edit: shapeshifter, we had the same thought]

I was getting a little annoyed with the hothead Ben for awhile there, but I'm glad he explained everything to Vance, which helped to convince him to act.  

2 hours ago, CCTC said:

And yes, she should have had a bit more curiosity of what just happened - her son had some sort of vision and found her husband and they were at some sort of explosion.   She maybe could have shown some interest her husband risked his life while saving multiple lives.  Something is obviously going on and she has seen enough that she should know her husband might be onto to something about how Cal is affected.  I think it is easier for her to use this as an excuse to break up with Ben so she can have an excuse to cry on Danny's shoulder.  It is easier for her to ignore what is happening right in front of her, because it is all about how things affect her.

This was the key problem for me.  Did she hear Ben out?  Did Ben try to explain to her what happened with the other passengers?  

The public transit system must be pretty awesome for Cal to get to that location by bus so soon after special ops.  

Ben should have left a sign in the tunnels, so Vance and Jared and the others would know how to get out of there.  

I didn't like the twist with the mole.  She was experimented on as well, so why would she be so gung-ho about continuing to help the guy torturing her?  She was also pretty useless to the bad guys.  She didn't give them a heads-up at all.  She seemed to be reporting to that underling Singularity guy, not the mysterious boss.  

Overall, the episode was pretty intense (especially the "Will Ben make it to his surprise BBQ bit?"), though still a tad unbelievable.  

Edited November 27, 2018 by Camera One

[Camera One]

One thing I don't buy is that Cal hasn't confided in Olive at all about the Callings and his connection to the other passengers.  Surely, Olive would have asked Cal what happened.  This oversimplifies the whole Ben/Grace situation.  Even if Grace believes that Ben is influencing Cal to believe in nonsense, Olive should be able to tell that Cal was telling the truth.  Olive was conveniently absent the entire episode where Cal was in the hospital.  Even though I'm enjoying the show overall, this type of selective writing makes the plotlines feel less natural and organic, and more contrived and manufactured.  

I wonder if there was a deleted scene we didn't see.

HOSPITAL ROOM.  MICHAELA is holding JARED's hand.

LOURDES walks in.

LOURDES:  I'm here.

MICHAELA: Lourdes.

LOURDES: Michaela.

MICHAELA: I'm so sorry.

LOURDES: For what.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Camera One

[TwistedandBored]

I didn't even know this was a mid-season finale until that "Manifest returns January 7th" promo. Whaaat!?!

Anyways, I like the show but I am just tired they are focusing on Ben Michaela and their problems only. I don't know why I thought this would an ensemble show but I did.

Saying that, I do think Ben should be more assertive with Grace. Ben has been the one making most of the comprises in their relationship and all she has done is make everything about herself. Her and Olive have both been selfish to be honest.  I understand Grace thought she lost her husband and kid but they are back and she hasn't really been that supportive of the trauma they might have experience or question what happen to them. 

Grace is not even open to listening to what Ben is telling her about what they are experiencing currently. She didn't even take a minute to question how Cal could have found Ben. She just immediately continued with blaming Ben. God! I really can't stand her. 

Also, Ben, Saanvi, and Michaela are way to trusting with these passengers. I still don't trust that Doctor lady. I also don't trust that Vance is dead. Nope. 

[GaT]

At least we won't be spending any more time watching them trying to find the missing passengers.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, GaT said:

At least we won't be spending any more time watching them trying to find the missing passengers.

Now that you mention it, since Ben won't have to prevent Cal from being tortured by mirror neurons anymore, maybe Cal will fade into the background.

[Melina22]

I feel so sorry for the actress playing Grace. She must hate being stuck every week playing the whiny, naggy wife. "How dare you run around saving the world when you were supposed to be at my BBQ! Why weren't you there for meeeeeee!?" She must know a lot of us FF her scenes to avoid rage ulcers. 

The factory scene cracked me up. I love scenes where people are running through strategically placed raging infernos that never quite spread to the actors. If only real fires were that considerate. 

I also cracked up at the peacock. I heard N. B. C. chiming in my head. 

[Suzysite]

5 hours ago, Elih143 said:

So I literally came looking for a forum to post my disgust with the drama they have the Grace character to and her hubby play all teary eyed about. Many moons ago now my wife wanted the whole divorce thing. I showed her the teary eye because it suited my purpose. It was genuine, I wasn't faking. I was hurt and upset. I was also livid. When she tried the "you need to move out routine" she was literally shocked when I explained to her that if she wanted out of the relationship, she needed to leave. She tried to argue and my response was a simple, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. And by the way, take your kids buy leave our son right where he is." It's amazing how the tune changes when they realize they were never really in control.

I was inwardly screaming at Ben to grow a spine, or a pair.  Just letting that shrew yell about HER needs, HER feelings, HER whatever while he stood all teary-eyed and not fighting back at all was maddening.   I wonder if the show realizes how Grace comes across, or if they think she's an admirably strong character.

[Melina22]

I hate to say it because there are things about this show I enjoy, but Grace is just bad writing. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I accidentally saw a headline about the show before I watched this episode. It said something along the lines of "no everyone survives the Manifest mid-season finale." I am a spoilerphobe so normally my reaction would be "NOOOOOOO!!!!" but this time my reaction was to start making a list of who I hoped died. Suffice it to say, I was disappointed that all we really got was Vance's alleged offscreen death which I don't buy at all. No body = not dead

I was totally cracking up at everyone forcing their way into joining the raid. Of course it's totally normal for NSA to take along a math guy, a neuroscience professor, and two random police officers when they're doing a super sekrit raid! I'm so used to seeing Nate Fillion wearing a vest with the word WRITER emblazoned across the front that I was hoping Ben and the neuroscience lady would have vests with PROFESSOR on them.

Ben had me rolling my eyes. You KNOW about the callings. You KNOW your son instinctively knew how to get to the subway tunnels. Yet when the same kid gives you specific instructions for where to find the other passengers and says that YOU need to go down to help them, you hesitate? Okay then.

Also dumb: there's an explosion so Michaela runs straight towards it.

More dumb: Cal's "It's okay! I left a note!" translates to "Sorry I had to leave. Dad needed me." Yes, that's enough information that your mom won't worry.

Michaela truly believes that asking the power behind the callings for help is what saved Jared? FFS. She's even dumber than I thought.

I don't understand why Ben trusts Fiona. Since they confronted her, she has done nothing to earn that trust. She denied being involved with the bad guys and that was good enough for Ben. And then she says, "I have a place where I can take all the kidnapped passengers," and once again that's good enough for Ben. Nope, don't bother telling me where it is because I trust you not to run off with these tortured people and continue experimenting on them!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, SimoneS said:

The comments about Grace are hilarious. Yes, she is a pain, but I feel for her. She being thrown under the bus so that Ben can hook up with the gorgeous Saanvi. 

 

5 hours ago, Elih143 said:

Oh you're just sympathizing with her because she's black and female. So racist and sexist of you. ;-) Whereas on the flipside my sympathies for Ben's position has nothing to do with him being white and male. :-)

(1) If it turns out that @SimoneS is actually Missandei, I am going to need some GoT spoilers immediately!

(2) Saanvi Bahl is not black. The actress who plays her is South Asian.

[SimoneS]

9 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

(1) If it turns out that @SimoneS is actually Missandei, I am going to need some GoT spoilers immediately!

Ha! I wish.

[Amy Beth]

I don’t care for Grace, but I do think she is suffering from a plot point. Ben can’t fully let her in and tell her about the Callings because if she doesn’t quickly die (or almost) , it will ruin Michaela’s Angel of Death theory.

[green]

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

"Uggg, my husband is the worst! He runs around trying to save our sons life, including running into gunfire to protect him! He risks his life to save innocent people from being tortured by some shady corporation after he worked endlessly to solve the mystery of their disappearance! When I ask him to tell me the truth, he just...does it! He has been nothing but dedicated to my family just weeks after finding out that he lost five years of his life! I better kick his ass to the curb!" -Grace, apparently. 

"Uggg, my wife is the worst!  She gets upset when I return with The Golden Child half-bloodied on the latest father-son bonding adventure.  She doesn't understand I risk my life for The Golden Child every day because I am his anointed Prophet.  When I refuse to tell her the truth in detail and lie and give her only half-truths at best she gets upset for some reason.  I can't tell "the little woman" the real reason I took that job at the accounting firm because she will never understand how very special I am.  I better just stand here and silently cry and look stoically heroic than have a sit down with her and my daughter, The Golden Child and Sister Cop and explain everything truthfully from day one because how can one of the Non-Chosen ever understand me.  Oh whoa is me, sob, sigh, and boo-hoo."  -Ben, totally.

I have never ever loathed a fictional character more than self-absorbed Ben on this show.  He makes Grace seem like the adult, sane one by comparison.

10 hours ago, meggonzo said:

I don't trust Fiona taking all the missing passengers with her.  What were the papers she found and took with her?

Is the guy in charge of the experiment dead?  He was the first guy Michaela saw on the ground, right?  I'm wondering who the "escaped" passenger was texting at the end.

The Young Evil Corp Guy mentioned someone called The Major last episode I believe so if Young Evil Corp Guy is dead then it must be The Mysterious Major.  And hey, Young Evil Corp Guy, now that you are apparently dead how did working with Tortured Now Turned Judas Woman work out for you?  Got you and your whole team killed and all the patients sprung.  Of course they all fell into Fiona's hands along with some research data she hurriedly scarfed up in the lab.  I like Fiona since she is totally sketchy and has been playing for Team Fiona only and has been from the beginning.  Fiona: "Thanks for the help, Golden Child, but I can take it from here.

Hilarious that Commando Guys (who were they ... Vance have a rental agreement with Blackwater or something since he was doing this on his own?) just jumped in the van and sped away with Fiona leaving Vance and some of their comrades behind.  Well one token Commando Guy stayed behind but there is always one poor sucker that never gets the memo.

9 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Grace is literally the dumbest most self-absorbed dummy on this show, which is truly saying something because there are some really stupid characters on this show.

Well like I say I am Team Grace over Team Ben any day though I can't stand either.  But Ben knows more and acts more selfish and far worse -- note he left his sister and Vance and Police Guy behind to take a perfectly fine Golden Child home in the middle of the crisis, twit, because only Golden Child's life matter's and no one else's -- so I think he is the stupidest character on the show.  Also most annoying.  Most self-indulgence.  Most arrogant.  Most untruthful.  Most elitist.  And most definitely most self-righteous.

Also the dumbest by a country mile.  Ben:  "I will go rescue these people because, you know, Golden Child!"  Vance:  "They have private guards armed with automatic weapons."  Ben:  "But ... Golden Child trumps everyone else on earth dying!"

9 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I'm thinking that Fiona is just going to continue the experiments on her own -- in conjunction with funding from the Singularity Project. 
I think Belsen is definitely dead, so a position just opened up.

As for Ben's peacock vision, it is November sweeps so  ...... N ..... B ..... C.

Yeah Fiona definitely sees opportunity when it knocks. 

And that peacock will mean something because these writers are that stupid but I wish it was just the first of many out of the blue, red herring visions Ben sees that drives him mad.

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't understand why Ben trusts Fiona. Since they confronted her, she has done nothing to earn that trust. She denied being involved with the bad guys and that was good enough for Ben. And then she says, "I have a place where I can take all the kidnapped passengers," and once again that's good enough for Ben. Nope, don't bother telling me where it is because I trust you not to run off with these tortured people and continue experimenting on them!

Yeah did I mention yet I think Ben is the most stupid and arrogant character on this show?  Hah!!

I hope Vance isn't dead because I want him, Wacky Accounting Firm Dept Boss and the Peacock to go off on their own and save the world every week after Long Suffering Bulgarian Guy kills off that whole annoying family for me first.

Edited November 27, 2018 by green

[meggonzo]

I missed the peacock vision. :(

[stealinghome]

1 hour ago, Amy Beth said:

I don’t care for Grace, but I do think she is suffering from a plot point. Ben can’t fully let her in and tell her about the Callings because if she doesn’t quickly die (or almost) , it will ruin Michaela’s Angel of Death theory.

But did Ben tell her about the callings in any less detail than he told Vance or Michaela told Jared? I didn’t think so, though I suppose I would need to check (or if he did, it’s because she shut him down HARD when he tried). She seems to me to be suffering more from “la la la, I am going to stick my head in the sand and ignore everything”-itis than anything else. I predict that the back half of the season or S2 includes an episode where Cal gets in trouble because Ben isn’t around and Grace has to believe to save him.

I do agree that Grace is a casualty of the writing, though, in the sense that she’s the most affected by the writing’s weird need to have characters downplay things that should be huge and/or only selectively be interested in information they should be interested in. Grace SHOULD be all over the callings and wanting to know exactly what happened to Cal, but she isn’t so that we can have ~drama. (As if the whole “came back afted 5 years thing” isn’t enough!)

I actually DO want Jared to have been saved by the callings, because I think it’s a more interesting story if the passengers can bargain with them or even find a way to communicate with them.

Edited November 27, 2018 by stealinghome

[SimoneS]

58 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Lourdes bought a pregnancy test.  She probably is already pregnant, that complicates things.  Michaela knows that Jared and Lourdes are trying to have a baby, Michaela needs to move on.  She probably won't, but she needs to.

 

I don't think that Lourdes is pregnant. I saw an ovulation kit along with the pregnancy test in her basket and she told Grace that they said that they would start trying once Jared got a promotion or something. Regardless, Jared and Michaela need to be honest with themselves about their feelings for each other rather than Jared knocking Lourdes up and adding a baby to their drama. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by SimoneS
I meant, "Jared" not "Ben."

[meggonzo]

6 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I don't think that Lourdes is pregnant. I saw an ovulation kit along with the pregnancy test in her basket and she told Grace that they said that they would start trying once Ben got a promotion or something. Regardless, Ben and Michaela need to be honest with themselves about their feelings for each other rather than Ben knocking Lourdes up and adding a baby to their drama. 

You mean Jared, not Ben. I imagine Ben knocking up Lourdes would cause drama, lol.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Melina22 said:

feel so sorry for the actress playing Grace. She must hate being stuck every week playing the whiny, naggy wife.

Plus she played an equally loathsome (albeit very different) character on Zoo. IDK. Maybe she likes playing the villain we love to hate—except in both cases I don't think any viewers loved anything about her character. 

3 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I hate to say it because there are things about this show I enjoy, but Grace is just bad writing. 

Since she's a lot like my sister, I'm guessing there's a writer working out some personal frustrations through the character of Grace—which does not mean it's good writing.

But at least my brother-in-law is not like Ben:

1 hour ago, green said:

"Uggg, my wife is the worst!  She gets upset when I return with The Golden Child half-bloodied on the latest father-son bonding adventure.  She doesn't understand I risk my life for The Golden Child every day because I am his anointed Prophet.  When I refuse to tell her the truth in detail and lie and give her only half-truths at best she gets upset for some reason.  I can't tell "the little woman" the real reason I took that job at the accounting firm because she will never understand how very special I am.  I better just stand here and silently cry and look stoically heroic than have a sit down with her and my daughter, The Golden Child and Sister Cop and explain everything truthfully from day one because how can one of the Non-Chosen ever understand me.  Oh whoa is me, sob, sigh, and boo-hoo."  -Ben, totally

 

8 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I don't think that Lourdes is pregnant. I saw an ovulation kit along with the pregnancy test in her basket and she told Grace that they said that they would start trying once Ben got a promotion or something. Regardless, Ben and Michaela need to be honest with themselves about their feelings for each other rather than Ben knocking Lourdes up and adding a baby to their drama. 

Heh, I'm sure you meant "Jared" and not "Ben" in your post, @SimoneS, but maybe if Ben did run off with Lourdes and Cal, this would be a better show.

[Melina22]

In interests of finding something positive to say, I submit the following :

1. I love that the writers avoided the trope of the rude, obnoxious teenage daughter. Ben's daughter is pleasant, helpful and extremely reasonable. Not at all a drama queen. (Her mother should take note.) 

2. Regardless of fires, explosions, gunfights or sleepless nights, most of the women still manage to have awesome hair. Bouncy, shiny and perfectly curled or straightened. Mine should only look this good on my best day, let alone when I'm chasing bad guys through exploding factories. 

[kili]

Quote

When I refuse to tell her the truth in detail and lie and give her only half-truths at best she gets upset for some reason. 

Grace got super upset with Ben when he tried to tell her the truth. She called him crazy and absolutely refused to listen to him. If he tells her the truth, she threatens to toss him out. If he doesn't tell her the truth, she threatens to throw him out. The only way he wins with her is if he just lets Cal die and she will probably blame him for that too. She admits that she blamed him for the first time she thought her son died.  

Her wanting Ben out of her life started long ago. She was never upset that he died, just her son. That has been made quite clear. When the plane first went missing, she only went on about her son. She tried to make a go of it when he returned, but her heart was never in it.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I don't think that Lourdes is pregnant. I saw an ovulation kit along with the pregnancy test in her basket and she told Grace that they said that they would start trying once Jared got a promotion or something. Regardless, Jared and Michaela need to be honest with themselves about their feelings for each other rather than Jared knocking Lourdes up and adding a baby to their drama. 

 

Yes, there was an ovulation kit in her basket. The explanation:

Quote

Lourdes: Jared and I always said once I got my master's, we'd start trying, and my thesis just got approved.

What I wonder is whether she and Jared have discussed this recently aka since Michaela returned. My guess is that they initially talked it about it when they got married or when she went back to school and she just assumed that since her thesis got approved, it's time to start the baby making. I was already thinking last week that she might be in for a shock/discussion when she busted out the ovulation kit at home, but after this episode with the tears and the goo goo eyes between Michaela and Jared in the hospital, I feel like it's just a matter of time before Jared says they need to take a break so he can think about his feelings for Michaela.

Edited November 27, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Camera One]

The only way to try to see things from Grace's perspective is to assume she believes Ben has gone nuts and he's putting ideas into Cal's head.  I don't even see how her conversation with Cal is going to go.  

GRACE: You know why Daddy had to leave, right?

CAL: I'm the one who went to save Daddy.  If I didn't go, everyone would have died.

GRACE: I'm sure that's what you believe, kiddo.  Your dad is sick.  He has gone down a rabbit hole like 5 years ago when he did too much research to find a cure for your disease.

As said above, the only way in which Grace kicking Ben out would have worked is if she knew nothing about the Callings or the situation about the missing passengers. 

The bigger problem is we have no idea what Grace knows or doesn't about this latest incident.  , Ben did fail to keep her updated about his real motives for getting the job at the accounting firm.   I feel that I can't make a full assessment of Grace unless I knew this information.

So maybe what we need is more Grace centric episodes, LOL.