The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[BkWurm1]

17 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Rene has been given connections to most characters on the show, more so than any other noob. He has a connection with Oliver, Diggle and Lance. He has a somewhat awkward/competitive relationship with Curtis and oddly enough a weirdly antagonistic/annoying sibling relationship with Evelyn (before she went evil). He also had a weird relationship with Thea which may/maynot end up with a romance.

Out of all of the noobs (Curtis included) they spent the most time giving Rene connections to the team. So, I'm really not seeing what's so wrong with the comment.

Part of it for me is what Chaser said, he's elevating his character to greater importance than what those scenes really meant, and part of it is just plain annoyance that the character I still least like got to have scenes with so many people when characters I'd love to see have many more scene partners still get nothing.

 Of course, him having scenes with a lot of characters to start with very well could have been the writers trying that hard to find some formula that actually works and finally they hit upon Rene and Quentin.  He did stop having scenes quite so abundantly after that (to my pleasure) and was limited on the team end to Curtis and Dinah (and the requisite rare background B team comment when the adults are talking) and Lance.  

And while he HAD a "nice" scene with Diggle, that was long in the past and never touched on again.  Diggle had several with Dinah but they happily dropped giving him bonding moments with Rene.  

Edited September 18, 2017 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

I'm worried they're going to start putting him with Thea now.  Even Thea in a coma would be better.  Yeah, I'm bitter that there is barely anything with Thea and Felicity and they've both been on the show since s1 and Felicity is going to be Thea's sister-in-law.

[tv echo]

REVIEW: Arrow: The Complete Fifth Season
Robert Greenberger September 18, 2017
http://www.comicmix.com/2017/09/18/review-arrow-the-complete-fifth-season/

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As the series entered its fifth year, they began the season uncertain if this was going to be its final one so they made certain things got tidied up. The tedious flashbacks had to wrap up the five years before the series’ start and move Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) and his friends towards a point where, should it be canceled, viewers were left satisfied.

Somewhere during the production of the final nine episodes, they got a sixth season renewal so shifted the planning to bring things to a climax and a cliffhanger. The messy 23 episodes are now collected by Warner Home Entertainment in Arrow: The Complete Fifth Season.

Oliver Queen’s story was one of redemption and responsibility wrapped around his family. Along the way it has taken interesting twists and turns and this year it was clear the intent was to get back to the street-level threats that propelled the Hood, the Arrow, and Green Arrow to protect Starling, now Star, City. As a result, it was an odd monkey-wrench tossed in when the series had to acknowledge the existence of aliens among us with its participation in the four-part crossover. The planning was haphazard since the episode had to double as a celebration of its 100th episode and therefore focused more on that than the crossover, spoiling the impact it should have had.
*  *  *
Picking up from the Olicity breakup at the end of season four, the season’s best episode may have been “Underneath”, which focused mainly on Ollie and Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards), allowing them to air out their emotions showing more can be done with less – a lesson I wish all the CW series would learn.
*  *  *
The problem with Adrian Chase (Josh Segarra) as Prometheus is that he’s too smart, too sophisticated and accomplishes way more than he should be capable of. He’s too perfect of a villain to be a true threat and I reached my limit when he produced Ollie’s secret son William (Jack Moore).

Muddying the storyline are threads that never went anywhere such as Ollie’s sort of romance with journalist Susan Williams (Carly Pope), and the periodic appearance of Vigilante, who in the comics is Chase, so makes us wonder who this one is.

And with such a sprawling cast, Quentin Lance (Paul Blackthorne) doesn’t get enough screen time but what he does get, is usually as a foil to Wild Dog – their dynamic is at least a fresh one. Holland’s coming and going from the series was never adequately covered so her character is under-served and deserves far better.
*  *  *
... We get the third installment of Allied: The Invasion Complex, this one focusing on using the alien tech to let the Arrow characters see alternate histories, which reset Oliver’s goals for the remainder of the season. There are two other featurettes: The New Team Arrow where the production team talk about how the new team members were selected, designed to be fresh and allow the writers to change-up the character interplays; and Returning to the Roots of Arrow: Prometheus, examining how the series unintentionally set this up and how it got to be paid off (without really discussing the comic book origins of Prometheus or Adrian Chase).

Edited September 19, 2017 by tv echo

[EmilyBettFan]

Wow a comic site stating Underneath was one of the best. Yes! Suck is comic hater fanboys, and Craig! 

[Starfish35]

TVLine's Fall TV Predictions

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ARROW

PREDICTION: Vigilante — who has a “personal” agenda and will be revealed to have a “very close connection” to a series regular character — is either A) SCPD Captain Pike, B) Dinah’s “dead” partner/lover or C) Earth-2’s John Diggle. But for our final answer, we’ll go with… B, aka Vincent Sobel. 

http://tvline.com/gallery/fall-tv-predictions-2017-lost-spinoff-scandal-finale/#!1/vigilante-4/

Edited September 20, 2017 by Starfish35
Remove too large screenshot

[DrSpaceman10]

But wasn't Vigilante around before Tinah showed up? Is there a reason people think he has a connection to her? 

[SmallScreenDiva]

13 minutes ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

But wasn't Vigilante around before Tinah showed up? Is there a reason people think he has a connection to her? 

I think the "will be revealed to have a “very close connection” to a series regular character" is the part that makes people speculate Tinah's maybe dead partner

[Sunshine]

There was also a shot in the scene where the limo blew up and she screamed. It showed Vigilante zooming in on her. Vincent probably had no idea Dinah was alive until then.

[tv echo]

EXCLUSIVE Arrow Season 5 Finale Podcast Commentary With Marc Guggenheim and Wendy Mericle
by Russ Burlingame | September 19, 201
http://comicbook.com/2017/09/19/arrow-season-5-finale-commentary-guggenheim-mericle/

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With season 5 of Arrow coming out today on Blu-ray and DVD, ComicBook.com had the opportunity to join showrunners Marc Guggenheim and Wendy Mericle to record a special "podcast commentary" for the season finale.
*  *  *
The episode presented a bit of a technical challenge, since both Arrow's long-running flashback device and the present-day story were going to be taking place in the same setting (Lian Yu, the island where Oliver's journey began). The filmmakers took advantage of this by shooting certain mirroring shots, but also had to reckon with how to quickly and easily discern between the two eras. They opted for a shift in the color palette in the flashbacks.

“We’ve always tried to make the flashbacks distinctive in some way with a color palette, and this year with Russia, we had gone to a lot of greens and grays,” Mericle explained. “It just helps delineate the present from the past. In terms of Lian Yu, it was really a conversation between us and our camera department, and our colorist. It was a process,where we talked about it and it was shot with certain filters and certain lighting and those choices were made and then they were enhanced in post production, so it was really a team effort like everything in television.”

With almost everyone in Oliver's life kidnapped by Prometheus and taken to Lian Yu, and a handful of powerful villains like Black Siren and Talia al Ghul teamed with the other guys, Team Arrow did not have much time to stop and breathe -- so the writers had to be very aware of pacing the episode in order to keep the emotional stakes grounded for the characters.

“I think we’re always looking for those moments,” Mericle said. “Most of the time on the show, in a regular episode it’s not that hard to find it. You can have a down beat in the bunker or you can dedicate a scene in the loft or city hall to having two characters having a heart to heart. In a finale, as you pointed out, it is really challenging because we always have so much story, and we are bringing in so many stories for landings that it becomes a question of how you carve that space out. It really does help to create a ticking clock or build a natural lull into the action that allows you to have those moments and let them breathe a little bit.”

Edited September 20, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

David Ramsey and Stephen Amell honored by US Military Soldiers at ‘Heroes and Villains Fan Fest’
Sep. 19,, 2017   BY JULIA VALENTI
http://fanfest.com/2017/09/19/david-ramsey-and-stephen-amell-honored-by-us-military-soldiers-at-heroes-and-villains-fan-fest/

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One of the several amazing factors about this convention, is how personable and interactive the celebrity guests are with their fans. That is why two fans in particular took up an amazing opportunity to give back to some of these actors that mean so much to them. At two separate Heroes and Villains conventions (Portland and New York/New Jersey), actors Stephen Amell and David Ramsey were presented with honors by members of the United States Military.

One of them, was me.

To me, Arrow is just more than just a show to ‘fangirl’ over and to watch and write about weekly. It was something that saved my life, but that is another story for another day. Whether branch that you are in, or whether you are Active, Reserve or National Guard – the life of a Soldier can be quite lonely and even crazy at times. We take pride in doing what we do, and we in return, honor those who inspire us. Both David Ramsey and Stephen Amell have done that!

Stephen, for portraying great strength even in the toughest of times – showing us that no matter what life throws at you… don’t ever stop fighting. David, for displaying the role of an honorary Soldier who is committed to serving his country with fortitude, honor and personal courage even in the toughest of times.

This past weekend, I attended Heroes and Villains. I knew exactly what I wanted to do – to present David Ramsey with a challenge coin that was given to me by my previous commander. I’m not going to lie, I was incredibly nervous!

What is a challenge coin, may you ask?

Traditionally, a ‘challenge coin’ is presented by US Military Commanders or Leadership to an individual Soldier as a special achievement for displaying the Army Values. They are awarded to a Soldier for displaying fortitude, honor, personal courage and duty to ones country. This is a high honor to all military members, across the country.

Having the opportunity to present David Ramsey was an incredible honor. Seeing David portray this character who still runs on honor courage, all while displaying amazing leadership (despite what has happened to him in the past) has truly inspired me… and has made a better Solider – or better Officer, rather- than I ever was before.
*  *  *
I was not the only one who felt as though a member from Team Arrow displayed great courage, and also was worthy of the same military honor. During Heroes and Villains Fan Fest in Portland, another Soldier presented Stephen Amell with a challenge coin as well.

Edited September 21, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

On 9/19/2017 at 8:54 AM, tv echo said:

REVIEW: Arrow: The Complete Fifth Season
Robert Greenberger September 18, 2017
http://www.comicmix.com/2017/09/18/review-arrow-the-complete-fifth-season/

I'm confused by some of this.

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As the series entered its fifth year, they began the season uncertain if this was going to be its final one so they made certain things got tidied up. The tedious flashbacks had to wrap up the five years before the series’ start and move Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) and his friends towards a point where, should it be canceled, viewers were left satisfied.

This feels like pure speculation.  I don't recall anything that suggested Arrow's producers had any worries about the show being renewed.  They wrapped up the flashbacks because they finally could.  

Quote

Somewhere during the production of the final nine episodes, they got a sixth season renewal so shifted the planning to bring things to a climax and a cliffhanger. The messy 23 episodes are now collected by Warner Home Entertainment in Arrow: The Complete Fifth Season.

 

Again, pure spec that they were left wondering.  Given all the time spent adding new characters and stalling resolutions with the original ones I call BS on the idea they only at the end started planning for there to be a next season.  The first 14 episodes is not how one writes a final season.  But they get the messy part right.  

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.. We get the third installment of Allied: The Invasion Complex, this one focusing on using the alien tech to let the Arrowcharacters see alternate histories, which reset Oliver’s goals for the remainder of the season. 

Are they talking the alien induced dream world?  Because that was not an "alternate history" that was just a bunch of made up stuff, not a what if look at different choices.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Yet another example of an entertainment writer who didn't quite understand what he watched, apparently. 

[tv echo]

Fox Nabs CIA Drama ‘Classified’ From Marc Guggenheim & Howard Gordon As Put Pilot
by Nellie Andreeva •  September 21, 2017 9:30am
http://deadline.com/2017/09/fox-cia-drama-classified-marc-guggenheim-howard-gordon-put-pilot-commitment-1202174331/

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Fox has given a put pilot commitment to Classified, an hourlong drama from Marc Guggenheim (Arrow) and Howard Gordon (Homeland). The project hails from Gordon’s Teakwood Lane and 20th Century Fox TV where the company is based.

Written and executive produced by Guggenheim, Classified is set in the high stakes world of the CIA. It is a character driven drama focusing on the dedicated attorneys who represent the Agency. At the heart of this show is a fearless woman trying to navigate her way to the top while putting out fires professionally and personally.

This marks the second put pilot commitment at Fox for both Guggenheim and Gordon.

Guggenheim also is writing and executive producing an adaptation of True Lies with McG and James Cameron producing. Guggenheim co-created and serves as an executive producer on the CW’s DC series Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow and also exec produces Trollhunters for DreamWorks Animation and Netflix. He is repped by WME.

Edited September 22, 2017 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

7 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Written and executive produced by Guggenheim, Classified is set in the high stakes world of the CIA. It is a character driven drama

From Guggenheim? LMFAO!

[tv echo]

These Beloved TV Characters Were Actually Jerks
Areeba Abid  September 21, 2017
http://www.zimbio.com/These+Beloved+TV+Characters+Were+Actually+Jerks/articles/llbMu4I7Gxz/Oliver+Queen+Arrow

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16 of 31
16. Oliver Queen, 'Arrow'
Oliver Queen is a patronizing ass with an endless list of short-comings. The alpha male vibe has been cranked up to an 11, when Oliver needs to take several seats and let others do the talking and thinking. Of course, he just loves to reassert his own opinions because apparently his emotions and ideas trump other people's much more rational plans. After getting together with Felicity, Oliver continuously pushed her away and largely contributed to her acting out in crazy ways. It's like Oliver purposely wants to win the Worst Person Human Ever award.

[Primal Slayer]

I understand wanting to get that money but MY has his hands in how many shows (counting this pilot)? 5? I'l be interested to see if this effects Arrows quality even further.

[tv echo]

Stop comparing Arrow’s complex female heroes
By CATHERINE PALMER on September 21, 2017
http://www.jhunewsletter.com/2017/09/21/stop-comparing-arrows-complex-female-heroes/

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The female characters most often pitted against each other are Laurel and Felicity Smoak (Emily Bett Rickards), because they are Oliver’s primary love interests. However, Laurel and Felicity never actually let Oliver come between them out of their love and respect for one another.

Felicity encourages Laurel on her journey to becoming Black Canary in season three. She reminds Laurel to accept herself and her abilities instead of comparing herself to her sister who was The Canary in season two. She also doesn’t feel threatened when Laurel later joins Team Arrow.

Laurel in turn provides emotional support to Felicity when she becomes paralyzed and must endure a series of surgeries in season four. Later that year, Laurel tells Oliver that he has always been the “love of [her] life.” But she always knew that Felicity was Oliver’s, and she was “really glad” that he had found her.

However, in 2017, many fans are apparently still frustrated by the lack of a cliched love triangle. Laurel seems to get the brunt of the hate for being seen as weak and annoying and consequently not good enough for Oliver.

On the other hand, many fans seem to think that a condition of being pro-Laurel is hating Felicity. They say she’s not as a strong as Laurel because she’s just tech support instead of a street fighter or she’s too mean to Oliver or she’s selfish.
*  *  *
Laurel and Felicity are also frequently compared in terms of their relationships with the other Queen sibling, Thea (Willa Holland). Many fans see a need to determine which woman cares more about Thea and to villainize the other.
*  *  *
We finally are getting more strong, complex, vulnerable and independent women represented on television. They don’t tear each other down on-screen. We should follow their example off-screen.

Edited September 22, 2017 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Yes, Felicity did support Laurel in S3. Did I miss the scenes of Laurel supporting Felicity?

[insomniadreams88]

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Laurel in turn provides emotional support to Felicity when she becomes paralyzed and must endure a series of surgeries in season four.

Wait, what? When? Is this because of the time Laurel goes to the hospital to visit Felicity and Oliver decides to keep hitting the streets in 410?

[leopardprint]

I honestly feel like MG is totally checked out of Arrow except for his precious "message" episodes. LOT is his live action comic panel show. No wonder he doesn't care about the details.

Also, Laurel and Felicity were never primary love interests at the same time and who is asking for a love triangle? 

Edited September 22, 2017 by leopardprint

[Belinea]

Maybe he is planning to let go off Arrow at some point. And now he is building other things for himself.

[tv echo]

10 Pointed Facts About Arrow
BY JAY SERAFINO  SEPTEMBER 14, 2017
http://mentalfloss.com/article/504243/10-pointed-facts-about-arrow

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In 2012—more than a decade after Smallville had introduced the world to an adolescent Superman—Arrow brought a new brand of super heroics to The CW. Focusing on the adventures of Oliver Queen as the Green Arrow, the hooded vigilante from DC Comics, the show was originally conceived as a realistic superhero yarn in the same vein as 2005's Batman Begins. But since its second season in 2013, the series has changed course and expanded into the centerpiece of the network's colorful take on the DC Universe, featuring spin-offs like The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow.
*  *  *
In the mid-2000s, the Green Arrow was languishing in Hollywood’s famed development hell along with the rest of the DC Universe, but he did come tantalizingly close to becoming a movie star. At one point, he was going to be the center of the DC movie Green Arrow: Escape From Super Max, which was to focus on a wrongfully incarcerated Oliver Queen’s struggle to break out from a prison designed to hold the world's most dangerous super villains. Though that idea never came to be, it was the success of the Caped Crusader that helped Green Arrow come to live-action.
*  *  *
In an interview with The Huffington Post, Kreisberg explained why Nolan’s Batman was so important to them:

“We were heavily influenced, obviously, by Chris Nolan’s take on Batman, especially the second movie, The Dark Knight. If you pull Batman out of that movie you’re essentially left with Michael Mann’s Heat. It really is just a crime thriller. Truly, the only fantastical thing in it really is Batman. That’s the way we approached this material.”
*  *  *
Emily Bett Rickards’s breakout role as Felicity Smoak on the show wasn’t planned to be anything more than a one-off. Rickards told Comic Book Resources that the character was originally written to be a "'possibly recurring' role,” which she admits rarely, if ever, actually happens.

But her performance impressed everyone so much that, going into season six, she’s one of the principal members of the cast, and the character has even been reintroduced into the comic books in recent years.
*  *  *
“We tried to make him as real as possible. The character doesn’t have any superpowers. Nobody on the show has any superpowers,” Amell told IGN in preparation of the show’s first season.

1. THE SHOW WAS INSPIRED BY THE DARK KNIGHT TRILOGY.
2. THE FIRST SEASON TAKES NUMEROUS CUES FROM MIKE GRELL’S GREEN ARROW COMICS.
3. OLIVER QUEEN’S MANSION HAS A SURPRISING SUPERHERO PEDIGREE.
4. FELICITY SMOAK WAS ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE IN ONE EPISODE.
5. STEPHEN AMELL REALLY PERFORMED THE “SALMON LADDER” ON HIS OWN.
6. ORIGINALLY, NO ONE WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE SUPER POWERS.
7. THE ARROW FOLKS NEEDED CHRISTOPHER NOLAN’S PERMISSION TO BRING THE FLASH ONTO THE SHOW.
8. THE SERIES IS SOAKED IN DC COMIC BOOK REFERENCES.
9. WILLA HOLLAND WAS DISCOVERED BY STEVEN SPIELBERG.
10. AN ARCHERY EXPERT HELPS KEEP THE BOW ACTION AUTHENTIC.

ETA: The above article cited the following two 2012 articles, both of which are well worth reading...

‘Arrow’ On The CW: Executive Producers On Adapting The Comics And Creating Realistic Superheroes
Laura Prudom   Aug. 21, 2012
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/21/arrow-cw-executive-producers-interview_n_1815057.html

ARROW STAR STEPHEN AMELL TALKS ABOUT PLAYING TV'S NEW OLIVER QUEEN
Eric Goldman  May 30, 2012
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/05/30/arrow-star-stephen-amell-talks-about-playing-tvs-new-oliver-queen

Edited September 22, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

From the above-cited 2012 Huffington Post article...

Quote

Guggenheim: It’s very interesting; I’m so surprised by the number of questions we’ve gotten about DC characters and superheroes and everything. It’s interesting to me because we don’t really see the show as a superhero show. We see it as more like a crime thriller. It’s designed to appeal to comic book fans, obviously. That’s why we’re putting in all the Easter eggs and everything. But it’s also designed to appeal to a much larger audience. The most gratifying thing that I hear is from a lot of women, quite frankly, going, “I did not expect to like this show, but I really liked it.” The phrase I hear a lot is, “It’s not for me but I loved it.” I’m like, well it is for you. There’s character and there’s heart and there’s emotion and then there’s a lot of soapy elements. It’s totally for you. But that’s not what people expect when the poster is a guy in a hood with a bow and arrow. That’s the appeal of the show.

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Can you talk a little bit about Laurel’s progression as a character? I’d imagine you’re trying to keep the Black Canary superheroic stuff for further down the line?
Kreisberg: You won’t be seeing fishnets anytime soon. I think that Laurel’s progression as a character, some of it will be what fans are probably expecting. I think a lot of it is going to not be what they’re expecting. Again, you can see the DNA of that character in Laurel. But she’s also had a lot of different iterations in the comics over the years, so we’re sort of going our own route. I think one of the other things that’s important for us is we say that it took Oliver five years to go from being this callow youth to this dark warrior capable of doing all of these amazing things. For anyone else in our world to make the transition to their comic book character, they would have to go through a similar trial by fire. Because if they don’t, it sort of invalidates what Oliver had to go through. So, you won’t be seeing people getting pissed off in one episode and the next episode they’re going toe to toe with Oliver, whether it’s Laurel or Tommy or Thea. If any of these people do take that journey, it’ll be done with the same sort of care and thought that went into transforming Oliver.

Edited September 22, 2017 by tv echo

[ohjoy]

41 minutes ago, tv echo said:

10 Pointed Facts About Arrow
BY JAY SERAFINO  SEPTEMBER 14, 2017
http://mentalfloss.com/article/504243/10-pointed-facts-about-arrow
6. ORIGINALLY, NO ONE WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE SUPER POWERS.

I miss this. So very much. 

[Guest]

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However, in 2017, many fans are apparently still frustrated by the lack of a cliched love triangle.

Um, no we are not. Not doing a love triangle is the best thing they ever did. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Guest

[Featherhat]

46 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Um, no we are not. Not doing a love triangle is the best thing they ever did. 

Yeah seriously. *Sara* and Felicity were closer to being in a love triangle than Felicity/Oliver/Laurel and even that was the barest hint of that, maybe Oliver/Felicity/Ray but even that was mild considering most CW shows. I guess the only people who might have wanted a love triangle were Laurel/BC fans who wanted them back together in S3 or 4 but then a lot of them wouldn't have admitted Felicity was a serious threat anyway considering the "oh they came out of nowhere!!" complaints in S3. They were just done with LL as a LI in S2, especially once Oliver/Sara started their thing. Now KC may have been projecting a lot of her hopes/head canon on to Laurel scenes ala 4.06 but I'm so glad it wasn't written that way.

[tv echo]

Arrow: The Complete Fifth Season Blu-ray review
PIP ELLWOOD-HUGHES   SEPTEMBER 24, 2017
http://www.entertainment-focus.com/arrow/arrow-the-complete-fifth-season-blu-ray-review/

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Arrow was once the jewel in The CW’s crown until the show spawned The Flash and DC’s Legends of Tomorrow. The once untouchable superhero drama was a dark and thrilling watch that was a weekly ‘must-see’. Personally I loved it for the first three seasons then the show hit a remarkable rough patch in season 4 with the introduction of Big Bad Damien Darhk (Neal McDonough). The show moved out of reality into the realm of supernatural, forced in part by the other shows in the Arrowverse, and it’s not something that sat comfortably with critics or fans.

Season 4 culminated in a terrible season finale (so bad it may go down as one of the worst season finales of all time) so expectations for season 5 were pretty low. With audiences quickly abandoning the show, it feels like Arrow’s days may be numbered and to the credit of the show’s writers, it seems like they may suspect the same as season 5 is a reboot of sorts.
*  *   *
Having pleased and pissed off fans in equal measure by devoting so much time to Oliver Queen’s (Stephen Amell) relationship with Felicity Smoak (Emily Bett Rickards), the writers have put the attention back on the crime fighting this season. Oliver and Felicity aren’t together when the season premieres and instead they work together to assemble a new team following the decisions of Thea (Willa Holland) and Diggle (David Ramsey) to pursue different interests at the end of season 4.
*  *  *
Season 5 of Arrow promises to be the last to use the split narrative device that has been a staple since season 1. I for one will be very glad of that as the flashbacks in season 5 are among the worst the show has done. They are so dull and take up far too much time. I understand they are trying to tie up Oliver’s backstory but they just aren’t necessary any more at this point.
*  *  *
The central arc of the season is strong. Prometheus is a worthy adversary for Oliver, even if the reveal of his identity isn’t particularly surprising. It’s a lot of fun watching Oliver trying to whip his new team into shape and there are a few surprises over the course of the season including the return of some familiar faces. The season finale leaves everything in the air and is the biggest hint yet that the writers know they need to shake the show up significantly if they want to get another season after the sixth.
*  *  *
Arrow goes some way to rectifying the mess that was season 4 with its fifth season. It’s still not of the same quality its first three seasons were but it’s a big step in the right direction. The season does enough to tie up the original Oliver Queen arc and I’m excited to see where it’s going to go after the game changing season finale. I still have faith that Arrow could deliver another stellar season when it returns next month based on season 5 being better than I expected it would be.

Edited September 24, 2017 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Where's the head hitting desk gif? - This article is about what should happen to BS after her redemption (that's "all but been confirmed to happen eventually")...

‘Arrow’: Why Earth-2 Laurel Lance Is the Rightful Black Canary 
BY BILL COOKE ON    24 SEPTEMBER 2017
http://gearsofbiz.com/arrow-why-earth-2-laurel-lance-is-the-rightful-black-canary/82358

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Sure, she’s not Earth-1 Laurel, but she’s close. She can honor her late counterpart by taking up her legacy and doing something good with it.
*  *  *
Black Siren could learn a lot from her counterpart and that could put her back on the path of good. She’ll never be completely good, but perhaps that’s for the best. Laurel was always too pure for Arrow; she wanted justice for everyone, and she could never truly get behind how dark Oliver’s path was. Black Siren can, however. She’s embraced the darkness inside; being the Black Canary means finding the justice and light inside, which is why Sara was never the Black Canary.

In the comics, the mantle is passed down through the family; Dinah Lance gave the mantle to her daughter, Dinah Laurel Lance, and in the show, Sara being the Canary inspired Laurel to be the Black Canary. Dinah Drake shares no relation; Laurel Lance is the Black Canary, and the only “rightful” person to inherit this mantle would be her doppelganger.
*  *  *
Dinah Drake started her mission off with justice and killing people, much like Sara did. The Black Canary has never stood for killing (justified or not, and no, Laurel never killed anyone as much as she may have wanted to sometimes.) Black Siren has no confirmed kills either, and she was raised with a similar upbringing to our Laurel so she has the same values inside of her somewhere. From what we’ve seen of Dinah, she has more in common with Sara than with Laurel.

Black Siren is the only person that should be taking the Black Canary mantle; not only because Katie Cassidy waited so long to play the part she was hired for only to have it ripped away, but because nothing else makes sense for Black Siren’s character after she finds redemption. Arrow always treats women like they’re replaceable, like they did with Laurel and Dinah, so it’s time to stop that trend.

Bringing this over from the Spoilers thread, because there's something that's been bugging me about this argument and I didn't want to derail that thread.  Apologies if I've gotten on this soapbox before - I can't remember if I have or not.

Disregarding for the moment the point that, yes, Laurel has killed, and if BS hasn't it isn't for lack of trying on her part....

To me there is something very sexist about this argument that Black Canary cannot have killed.  Primarily because you never see anyone making the same claim about Oliver and how he cannot be the true Green Arrow because he's a killer.  It's true, in the comics Black Canary did not kill, but neither did the Green Arrow, for the most part.  My understanding is that he did kill once, and that was why Dinah divorced him.  But he hardly was dropping bodies left and right like Oliver was in season one.  

So this argument that Black Canary must be pure as the driven snow while the Green Arrow can have as much blood  on his hands as the show wants feels incredibly sexist, holding the female character to this higher standard of good and right and purity.  It's just...ugh.  

[BkWurm1]

6 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

So this argument that Black Canary must be pure as the driven snow while the Green Arrow can have as much blood  on his hands as the show wants feels incredibly sexist, holding the female character to this higher standard of good and right and purity.  It's just...ugh.  

And at the same time, this is probably the same crowd that used to rail against Felicity for encouraging Oliver not to kill.  (Even if she actually was only all about supporting Oliver in what he felt he should or shouldn't be doing in that regards)

[Starfish35]

Yeah, I know, it's all coming from a pro-Laurel, pro-Lauriver standpoint.  It just irritates me because I've seen this argument used for years to bash Sara and now Dinah, but yet somehow the same logic doesn't extend to Oliver.  Grrr.  Just say you prefer Laurel/KC, guys.  It's ok!  Just don't pull this righteous "pure heart" worthiness crap! :(

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah, I know, it's all coming from a pro-Laurel, pro-Lauriver standpoint.  It just irritates me because I've seen this argument used for years to bash Sara and now Dinah, but yet somehow the same logic doesn't extend to Oliver.  Grrr.  Just say you prefer Laurel/KC, guys.  It's ok!  Just don't pull this righteous "pure heart" worthiness crap! :(

See, the problem is you're trying to find logic in articles with none, that ignore facts from the show to "prove" their point. 

[Starfish35]

Yeah, but even if Laurel had never killed, I'd still be having the same issue.  The problem is that in order to prove that somehow only she is worthy, they're holding the female characters to a higher standard than the male lead.  And that's a sexist argument IMO.  If you (general you) don't like Sara or Dinah as BC, that's fine, but saying they can't be BC because they've killed, when the lead character probably has more blood on his hands than either of them?  Yeah that doesn't work for me.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Starfish35

[Velocity23]

Hmmmm my impression was that certain section of fans always claimed Sara cannot be the BC because she has killed before.  And why LL is the chosen one.

[Featherhat]

12 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Hmmmm my impression was that certain section of fans always claimed Sara cannot be the BC because she has killed before.  And why LL is the chosen one.

They did, along with the fact that her name was Sara. Which was basically just an excuse because BC wasn't a Rachel Dawes knock off either and as above Oliver is radically different from comics Ollie, almost every character is. It never seemed to bother people that Mia Dearden became Thea Queen (Merlyn) though.

I do agree it is a sexist argument when taking Oliver's actions into account, kinda goes hand in hand with the Felicity must sit in her IT geek corner and say three lines an episode and do nothing else.

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah, I know, it's all coming from a pro-Laurel, pro-Lauriver standpoint.  It just irritates me because I've seen this argument used for years to bash Sara and now Dinah, but yet somehow the same logic doesn't extend to Oliver.  Grrr.  Just say you prefer Laurel/KC, guys.  It's ok!  Just don't pull this righteous "pure heart" worthiness crap! :(

The funny thing is that in show, I've found Sara and Oliver, the killers, to be far more pure of heart than Laurel ever seemed to be.  Sara and Oliver and yeah, even Dinah, seem to be in the hero business now because they deep down feel they owe it to the world to make it a better place while Laurel's choice seemed far more firmly rooted in her expression of self.  Oliver and Sara were righting wrongs while Laurel was achieving self-esteem goals.   

[Featherhat]

Laurel was in it to Single White Female, sorry *honour* her sister and because she found out Oliver was the Arrow and wanted and felt entitled to be part of his super cool club, not only that but thought she was an equal fighter to him after a few months of training. Trying to quell her rage read as an addict finding another addiction to me and they literally tossed the "honour Sara" motivation out of the window after a few episodes.

and no she certainly did not have more light in her than Sara who fought her way back from victim to assassin to hero and was prepared to die rather than kill again. The fact that Oliver and Sara resemble human beings at all means they are pure in heart more so than others who got into it because "I want to be a hero!" I do come at this with a dislike of the Laurel character, I admit but that's what I personally saw on screen.

[Mellowyellow]

Your view of her is far more generous than mine. 

I always thought she did it to get back with Oliver. 

[Featherhat]

Well that as well ;) No wonder she was so furious Oliver efused to train her. KC's head cannon certainly bares that out and possibly what she thought would happen. I do think she thought she'd regain/recement her leading lady status which didn't exactly happen and certainly not LI which was important to her.

[LeighAn]

Laurel wasn't pure of heart. Laurel was self righteous. There's a difference.

Edited September 25, 2017 by LeighAn

[tv echo]

Nice write-up on SA's Nocking Point wines by Food&Wine...

L.A. Restaurants Like Kettle Black Start Pouring 'Arrow' Star Stephen Amell's Dude-Friendly Wines
Andy Wang  September 25, 2017
http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/la-restaurants-kettle-black-start-pouring-arrow-star-stephen-amells-dude-friendly-wines

Edited September 26, 2017 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

Quote

In the meantime, Kettle Black is promoting its relationship with Nocking Point by offering a steal of a prix-fixe dinner that is available through October 5. The $40 meal includes three courses and three wine pairings.

The meal starts with Apex rosé that nicely balances the acidity of Kettle Black's Tuscan kale salad. It's a reminder that men can enjoy rosé.

"One of the most important things we've done with Nocking Point, and I hope we can continue to do it, is being known for rosé," Amell says. "The back label for our Apex rosé reads, 'pink wine for dudes.' We love rosé as much as my wife hates merlot."

For the second course, there's cavatelli with wood-fired bolognese and Pecorino-Romano. Origins pinot noir pairs well with the rich, meaty pasta.

For dessert, a plum cake with an Origins pinot noir reduction, vanilla gelato and almonds is paired with a lovely vermouth that Kettle Black bar director Jordan Young makes with Nocking Point Maja pinot gris.

I would have thought it would be harder to get dudes to eat kale salad than a rosé.

I'd go for that meal

[Morrigan2575]

Is that the thing I read a fan talking about? Where he pretended they got NP wine into restaurants but it's actually restaurants that the Amells invested in? 

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

Is that the thing I read a fan talking about? Where he pretended they got NP wine into restaurants but it's actually restaurants that the Amells invested in? 

LOL, yes. 

 

Also:

The “pink wine for dudes” thing is just....ugh. 

[Guest]

Why did it take so long to stock NP wine in restaurants SA invested in?

[leopardprint]

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

LOL, yes. 

 

Also:

The “pink wine for dudes” thing is just....ugh. 

I hear brands based on "stereotypical gendered product for the opposite gender" are totes known for their market longevity. Can't wait for their spin off line of beer for ladies. So innovative. 

[tv echo]

Five Things You Didn’t Know about Manu Bennett 
Nat Berman  September 26, 2017
http://www.tvovermind.com/entertainment-news/five-things-didnt-know-manu-bennett

Quote

Manu was in a horrible car accident and his mother and brother were killed.
Manu was just 15 years old at the time. He said that it was difficult to concentrate on schooling and life after they died. He dealt with it physically by playing rugby. He made the Australian schoolboy team. To deal with his emotions, his girlfriend introduced him to ballet. He missed out on the Australian rugby championships because he had to dance in Swan Lake. He described himself has having great expressive ability in the world of dance, and that is the key ingredient which drew him to become an actor.

He described himself has having two sides, both emotional and physical. He uses both sides to portray his roles, employing his emotional sense and physical abilities to create his character interpretations. He always tries to find “all there is to a man” …not just the right camera angles, but whatever he has inside himself to help his audience feel his characters. The experience of ballet helped him to get through the feelings he had about losing his mother.
*  *  *
Manu bought every single one of the Deathstroke comics.
He was at a Comic Con and one guy had a massive comic book collection. He asked the seller to help him find them all, and he bought them. He’s read a lot of them, he’s flicked through some, and poured over the pictures. He said that it’s important to anchor yourself in the original material when part of a television show. The TV adaptation has its own interpretation and artistic license. Manu met with the first artist who drew Deathstroke, George Perez, who said to Manu, “You don’t look anything like him!” But Manu has crafted his own sense of the character, created his own interpretation, and has had huge compliments from Deathstroke creator and writer, Marv Wolfman about using the right sense of the character.

Edited September 27, 2017 by tv echo

[tofutan]

Yet another Black Siren video on the CW channel? 

[BkWurm1]

Such an unflattering pause in that video.  

[lemotomato]

Sara Netzley, who wrote the Arrow recaps for EW.com last season, is part of a new podcast talking about all the TV shows based on DC comics. So far they haven't talked about Arrow much, but the big news I heard from their latest episode is that she has been assigned to write ew.com's Supergirl recaps this year and won't be covering Arrow anymore. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

That's disappointing. I've enjoyed her reviews. Solid female voices such as Laura Hurley and the lady from Vulture have stopped reviewing and recapping Arrow, too.