Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[Lantern7]

Before I turn in for the night . . . am I a putz to believe that Ben wasn't directly given the win by the producers? I mean, the series is prone to shenanigans, and Ben was the closest thing to Colby that Probst had in recent years . . . but I think the firemaking challenge was installed to benefit a power player in the even they couldn't win the final immunity idol. Probably brought in with an alpha male in mind, but not specifically Ben.

I'm not trying to be contrary for its own sake. I'm just reading posts and seeing magma and venom spewed in Ben's direction, and I don't think he's that big of an asshole to deserve most of it.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Lantern7

[Nashville]

17 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Before I turn in for the night . . . am I a putz to believe that Ben wasn't directly given the win by the producers? I mean, the series is prone to shenanigans, and Ben was the closest thing to Colby that Probst had in recent years . . . but I think the firemaking challenge was installed to benefit a power player in the even they couldn't win the final immunity idol. Probably brought in with an alpha male in mind, but not specifically Ben.

I'm not trying to be contrary for its own sake. I'm just reading posts and seeing magma and venom spewed in Ben's direction, and I don't think he's that big of an asshole to deserve most of it.

Peachy can (and does) have his favorites of course, but I’ve always thought the notion Production would risk alienation of their entire fan (and revenue) base for the benefit of an individual to be ridiculous.  In the eyes of TPTB the long term well-being of the franchise will always take precedence over any one player in a season.

[SVNBob]

30 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Before I turn in for the night . . . am I a putz to believe that Ben wasn't directly given the win by the producers? I mean, the series is prone to shenanigans, and Ben was the closest thing to Colby that Probst had in recent years . . . but I think the firemaking challenge was installed to benefit a power player in the even they couldn't win the final immunity idol. Probably brought in with an alpha male in mind, but not specifically Ben.

You're exactly right about why they brought the firemaking at F4 in.  But that's not the only reason Ben is getting vitriol.

It's a combination of that being the first season with that new twist, the fact it was a secret until it happened, and (mainly) the series of HIIs Ben found.  Granted, no body else that season really looked for idols as much as he did.  But it seemed to some (not me though) that he found some of them too easily.  Like they'd been hidden only in places he'd look or be. 

(There's a Conspiracy Theory thread in this section that hasn't really seen much action recently.  But one of the last things discussed in there was Ben's win.)

[OutOfTheQuestion]

On 2/11/2020 at 11:54 AM, fishcakes said:

The only reason she won is because the jury thought Albert was transparently smarmy and because Coach wouldn't own his game. They were practically begging Coach to admit that he'd lied and backstabbed so they'd feel okay about voting for him, but he wouldn't do it and kept insisting that he'd played an honorable game, so they punished him by voting for Sophie. She claimed that she was the mastermind and that Coach was her puppet, but no one believed that except for her. Votes for her were purely "Not Coach" votes.

Don't agree with this interpretation. Based on his two previous seasons, Sophie correctly figured that Coach would be an ideal final tribal council opponent, since she knew he couldn't turn off his hypocritical "noble warrior" persona.  She played that season perfectly, getting to the end with two goats who absolutely couldn't beat her.

[fishcakes]

11 hours ago, OutOfTheQuestion said:

Don't agree with this interpretation. Based on his two previous seasons, Sophie correctly figured that Coach would be an ideal final tribal council opponent, since she knew he couldn't turn off his hypocritical "noble warrior" persona.  She played that season perfectly, getting to the end with two goats who absolutely couldn't beat her.

Even Sophie didn't make that argument. She said that when she came into the game, she wished she were a man so she could find some "dumb girls" whose votes she could control. Basically, she wanted to play like Russell Hantz played in two of his three losing seasons, including the one immediately prior to her own. Then she said she was happy that Coach was there because he was just like a dumb girl. But that's just delusional. I have zero love for Coach, but he ran that season. She only got to the end because he brought her, and on her own steam she did nothing but win one IIC at exactly the right time. If the final IC hadn't been a puzzle, or if Ozzy had been a little faster at completing it, he would have been in F3 and he would have won that season. Coach was arguably a goat, and Albert was definitely a goat, but Sophie was also a goat. She was just the least goaty of the three.

I will say though that Sophie seems like a completely different person this time around. She was downright pleasant on the first episode of 40.

[SVNBob]

12 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I will say though that Sophie seems like a completely different person this time around. She was downright pleasant on the first episode of 40.

Not having Brandon or Benji around would explain that.

[Eolivet]

Moving this from the episode thread:

8 hours ago, simplyme said:

'm not really a conspiracy theorist. I think they decided before the season rather than specifically for Ben. That said, it still sucked specifically for that season because it was a surprise twist. You had ALWAYS been able to vote someone out at Final Four. Now you couldn't. Also, it now means that there is no TC where someone cannot play an HII but they can get voted out. That's gone. Before they had to either win immunity or convince at least one person to vote with them. Now they can skip those if they have faith in their fire-making.

I mean, should Chrissy et al have tried harder to prevent Ben from finding HIIs? Of course. But in every other season from something like 13 (?) up until that one, they would have been able to vote him out at Final Four as long as someone else won immunity. 

This.

Here's my problem with Ben's win, the further away it gets from his season. He's not the first person to benefit from a twist. But he may be the first person to benefit from a twist without making one strategic move by himself, or having any semblance of a late-game social game.

As I recall, he had neither.

He would've been out at 5, 6, 7, 8 without all those idols. And I get winning immunity is a legitimate way to win the game (heck, my personal five-tool player of the 30s, Nick, wouldn't have won without winning immunity at the end).

But to contrast with Nick, Nick laid a lot of groundwork to get where he was. He built relationships, he made alliances, he was on the bottom a few times. He worked his connections, got into a solid group and then got himself there himself by winning immunity.

Ben had his biggest strategic move handed to him by Devon ("super-spy Ben"), he was persona non grata with every single alliance at F8, and then he idol-ed himself to 4, and was saved by a twist. He's not an illegitimate winner, but in my eyes, his win is one of the least impressive.

Other than finding idols (which is "work" in and of itself), he didn't really have to do much. That's why I put him a shade above Mike Holloway in terms of useless winners. If you have to immunity your way to the end for a long time ... what are your skills? You can win competitions? You can find idols? What else did you do? And in Ben's case, it was "have a good backstory" and "not be Chrissy."

(You could theoretically say the same thing about Adam, but at least he, and nearly every other winner, had to dig themselves out from something at one point ... by doing something other than literally digging in the sand.  Was Ben ever a target prior to finding idols? From what I can recall, he was dragged along by Chrissy, until he was dragged into Devon and Ashley's group against Chrissy and was sort of along for the ride.)

He was in the majority alliance in the Heroes, swapped into a tribe that never lost, then reabsorbed by Chrissy at the merge. Did he do one strategic thing by himself? Maybe others have better memories. Heck, at least Mike Holloway tried to screw over Second Worst Dan at the auction for the letters from home. Ben didn't even do that.

So, his win isn't illegitimate, but on this current season, I can see why some question his inclusion for any other reason other than "recent winner" and "good backstory."

[loki567]

Even if Ben isn't a good winner, I'm not sure he's a bad player. A lot of great players can look bad if they're shut out of conversations. We saw that with Kim in the first episode of WaW. Ben because of the marine backstory, immediately got the, "winning if he gets to the end of the game," tag and because of that, the social and strategic elements of the game were closed off to him. So he had to go at it through idols, comps, and twists. 

I can understand not liking the win but it seems like the hate goes past that and lands on Ben directly like he's a moron or something. I don't think he is. 

[SVNBob]

Ben technically had one "strategic" move of his own.  But it was the move that really made him persona non grata.

Ben was the first person to use an idol to cancel out every vote except his own, thus voting out Lauren (someone who was supposedly his ally) 1-0.

[Lantern7]

@SVNBob . . . I don’t remember, but by that logic, wouldn’t that mean Lauren voted for him? Basically, this sounds like a Lil/Burton situation. “How dare you try to vote me off when I’m doing the same to you!”

And I get the “Ben Bombs” getting increasingly annoying . . . but the others should have tried to prevent him from scoring idols. He could have set off air horns and I wouldn’t have blamed him.

[fishcakes]

I don't remember all that well, but I thought the thing that made Ben persona non grata was that his alliance was scheming to vote him out -- not in a malicious way but more of a "he's a threat, let's get rid of him" way -- and he overheard them and they took offense at the fact that he overheard them. I remember thinking how ridiculous it was that their position seemed to, "how dare he catch us!" He seemed to be completely on the outs after that. But as I said, I might be wrong; very little about that season is worth remembering.

[SVNBob]

13 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

@SVNBob . . . I don’t remember, but by that logic, wouldn’t that mean Lauren voted for him? Basically, this sounds like a Lil/Burton situation. “How dare you try to vote me off when I’m doing the same to you!”

Like @fishcakes said, it was a case of the alliance paring down and trying to eliminate a big physical threat.  And his vote was to eliminate the most social threat.

13 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I don't remember all that well, but I thought the thing that made Ben persona non grata was that his alliance was scheming to vote him out -- not in a malicious way but more of a "he's a threat, let's get rid of him" way -- and he overheard them and they took offense at the fact that he overheard them. I remember thinking how ridiculous it was that their position seemed to, "how dare he catch us!" He seemed to be completely on the outs after that. But as I said, I might be wrong; very little about that season is worth remembering.

I think we're both about half-right.  I think the timeline went as you said, minus them catching him.  But that's how he knew to play the idol to nullify all the votes, leading to the "how dare he" bit.

But agreed in that I'm not remembering exactly, without re-watching the season, and I do not plan to do so for a while.

Edited February 15, 2020 by SVNBob

[Robert]

I started watching Survivor Season 1, episode... 2 actually.  I have no memory why I didn't watch the first ep, but I do recall BB's elimination as my first! Lol

There was a time I was so obsessed with Survivor I could name all players in order of elimination, up until Cook Islands. My interest started waining around then (though I thoroughly enjoyed China and Mirconesia), and still solidly watched up until HvV, but I haven't seen anything since HvV.

Partly due to not been in the US and the local channel that has the rights has been pretty haphazard about showing it and my real life legitimately changing my TV viewing habits (confession - until my partner moved in with me a couple of years ago, I spent the previous 4 years without a television - hahahaha so hipster of me!)

But I've recently turned the big 4-0 myself and now I have a local streaming service with all the seasons on it,  I'm gonna jump back in and watch the show from the beginning (as well as the current Season 40 of course)

I'm actually feeling really nostalgic about some of those earlier seasons! (Okay maybe not Thailand, though I can respect Brian's gameplay (though nothing else)) - funny how they feel like such simpler times. 

I reckon I can get to at least All Stars before I start questioning myself! Hahaha Though I'm definitely interested in reviewing Cook Islands/Fiji/Tocantins again (if I get that far) as I don't actually remember much of them though I know I watched them! I'm legitimately drawing blanks for large parts of those seasons. 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Robert

[omophagia]

Read this tidbit in one of the "Inside Baseball" type Survivor blogs and found it interesting: After the first episode of "Winners At War," Brian Heidik is now the only winner never to have received a vote against them.

[tvgoddess]

I just finished watching Thailand (save for the reunion), and I definitely feel like I need a shower. So many awful horrible people on this season. It was just...gross. Clay goes on my list of most hated players I've seen so far in 13? seasons. Still many seasons to go, but I despised just about everything about him.

[Josh371982]

On 8/29/2015 at 10:31 AM, fishcakes said:

At the reunion show, though, Steve said if they had gotten Rob instead of Russell, they wouldn't have voted him out right away. He didn't elaborate much there -- he just said something like, "it would have been different" -- but in post-boot interviews, he and the other Zapateras said that they liked Rob and wanted to work with him. I think people underestimate how likeable and what a schmoozer Rob is; he makes promises to everyone and they all know that he does that, but they assume that he's being truthful with them and lying to the others. We'll never know how he would have done if he'd been on Zapatera -- and it's not as if they made up a think tank recruitment pool either -- but I don't assume he would have been an early boot. On Ometepe, Francesca, Kristina, Phillip, Matt, to a lesser extent Andrea, and late in the game Ashley were all gunning for him. He turned Phillip into an ally and voted the rest of them out. The "Rob's Zombies" trope has never rung true to me.

Ashley was one of his puppets she didnt even go after him until F4. Her and Natalie had the big opportunity to be smart and vote Rob out along with Andrea when he didnt win that Immunity and both women joined him and Phillip to vote her back out 

[LadyChatts]

On 2/16/2020 at 12:59 AM, tvgoddess said:

I just finished watching Thailand (save for the reunion), and I definitely feel like I need a shower. So many awful horrible people on this season. It was just...gross. Clay goes on my list of most hated players I've seen so far in 13? seasons. Still many seasons to go, but I despised just about everything about him.

Usually when I watch a season that I thought was originally bad, I can find it enjoyable in hindsight (especially compared to the boob parade of recent seasons).  But Thailand was perhaps even worse on re-watch, and it had been many, many years since I saw it.  Sook-Jai is probably one of the most miserable tribes ever.  If you do watch the reunion, there's a clip they showed of Stephanie's audition video, and Jeff asked why they didn't see that Stephanie out there.  This is probably a case where the cast gave one hell of an interview during casting, because on paper I never would have expected them to be as boring and bad as they were.  I don't even think this was the type of season that would have been any better had certain people been voted off earlier, and others lasted longer.  

Edited February 19, 2020 by LadyChatts

[tvgoddess]

1 hour ago, LadyChatts said:

If you do watch the reunion, there's a clip they showed of Stephanie's audition video, and Jeff asked why they didn't see that Stephanie out there.  This is probably a case where the cast gave one hell of an interview during casting, because on paper I never would have expected them to be as boring and bad as they were.  I don't even think this was the type of season that would have been any better had certain people been voted off earlier, and others lasted longer.  

I did end up watching the reunion (again, my OCD requires me to watch everything before moving on). Stephanie's audition video, wow. It kind of made me a little uncomfortable, and I'm far from what you'd call a prude. The whole reunion was geared towards embarrassing the players, but I guess that's what they gave them to work with. I can't stress enough how gross this season really was.

Currently watching the infamous Amazon season (infamous in that I'd always heard so much about it). I knew Jenna and Rob C. already from All Stars, and of course Heidi because well Heidi. It was interesting to fill in the blanks with the other ones I'd heard about, and the strategy so far from switching from all guys vs. all girls to the switch and then merge is a nice change. Not really hating anyone too much. Shawna just got voted out. Hilarious at her quick 180 turnaround once the guys came over.

[LadyChatts]

4 minutes ago, tvgoddess said:

I did end up watching the reunion (again, my OCD requires me to watch everything before moving on). Stephanie's audition video, wow. It kind of made me a little uncomfortable, and I'm far from what you'd call a prude. The whole reunion was geared towards embarrassing the players, but I guess that's what they gave them to work with. I can't stress enough how gross this season really was.

Currently watching the infamous Amazon season (infamous in that I'd always heard so much about it). I knew Jenna and Rob C. already from All Stars, and of course Heidi because well Heidi. It was interesting to fill in the blanks with the other ones I'd heard about, and the strategy so far from switching from all guys vs. all girls to the switch and then merge is a nice change. Not really hating anyone too much. Shawna just got voted out. Hilarious at her quick 180 turnaround once the guys came over.

Heh, I loved how she was moaning and groaning in pain, and Deena refused to let her get voted out because they needed her as a number.  And then when the guys came over she was fine.  

Stephanie's audition video was interesting.  It definitely was not what I would have expected, but looking back at this era of Survivor, I guess you'd want to get noticed in a field of thousands of applicants.  I don't know if they did as much recruiting back then as they do now.  Probst has openly said before how much he hated Thailand (something fans can probably agree with him on), so I wasn't surprised even the reunion show was sour.  I felt like half of the cast really seemed like they had a miserable time out there.   

[Josh371982]

On 12/22/2015 at 1:35 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

The problem is that James would get stuck on a joke that he thinks is very funny - like Stephenie is the only one who remained of her tribe in Palau where everyone else  got kicked off one by one, and he didn't want that to happen to him (He even called it "romantic", LOL) or that 10 years later, super badass challenge monster Colby was like Superman in a fat suit.  And then at Tribal he would just berate that person like crazy with these "jokes" hoping to stay in the game!  What a horrible strategy.  It was so over the top mean.  

 

Heroes vs Villains is interesting because Boston Rob chooses to not believe in or use idols, like they're aliens or ghosts, and he commands the entire tribe to follow his decree that no one shalt touch them lest they be banned from his castle.  Courtney and Sandra listen, Coach listens breathlessly, and Parv is fine to go along, but of course Russell doesn't.   Again so far this season (I'm 8 episodes deep) is a fine representation of everything I love about Russell.  For his haters who say that producers plant the idols for Russell to find, here's a perfect season showing that not to be the case.  No one else on Villains looks for idols -- hell -- they're not allowed to -- and they only show the little troll doll Russell scurrying about from tree to tree, digging, thinking, hiding, and looking.  He digs for hours.  By the end when he finally finds one, he says it took him three days to find.

 

Also, he gets Tyson to vote out himself.  How could anyone not love this man?  For the critics who said Russell tries to play the same game as Samoa (because he hadn't yet known he lost, he hadn't yet known his strategies didn't work for him), let me say this.  Russell does not berate or abuse one player (that we can see).  Instead, Rob threatens HIM, and he kind of lies back and takes it , until he finally says, No YOU watch out, Rob.  Then he proceeds to (very politely) manipulate Tyson and get Tyson booted, then boots Rob next.  I do see him as a mastermind of this game (up until Final tribal).  The way he played Tyson is so incredibly beautiful.  He also easily sees through people's lies.  He's told that everyone is voting for Russell, but he plainly says "I ain't stupid.  They're voting for Parv."  I don't know how he gets all the information he does -- were Coach and Jerri feeding him information from earlier votes?  But he plays those tribals perfectly.

It was easy to hate Russell. He was an uber arrogant nasty troll looking asshole with a horrid social game 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Josh371982

[Josh371982]

On 1/14/2017 at 4:03 PM, LadyChatts said:

About the only good thing from that season.

LOL Speak for yourself. Jenn and Hali😍😍😍

[Oholibamah]

On 2/19/2020 at 2:26 PM, Josh371982 said:

Ashley was one of his puppets she didnt even go after him until F4. Her and Natalie had the big opportunity to be smart and vote Rob out along with Andrea when he didnt win that Immunity and both women joined him and Phillip to vote her back out 

I liked Ashley: she was playing her own game the best she could given her options. She knew Rob had to go, but her options were limited because the Buddy System prevented her from talking to Zapatera. From the edit, she’s the only one who tried, but Rob found out which put her on his radar. She won two crucial Immunities when she was eventually in Rob’s crosshairs. 
 

That Tribal (Top 5) was the last time Rob could play his Idol, so he was safe and Ashley knew it. 
 

At the Top 6 where Andrea was first voted out, Rob had Immunity. 
 

At the original Top 5, Ashley could have taken a shot at Rob, but her only option was to work with Grant and Natalie, and Grant was Rob’s “buddy” which limited/negated her time to talk to him. He also seemed pretty hoodwinked by Rob, given his reunion appearance. And even if she did pull this off, Rob would have had a duel the very next day against Andrea and Matt to get back into the game. 
 

Ashley was seconds behind Rob in the puzzle for Final Four Immunity. Even though she lost, her relationship with Natalie rivalled Rob’s, and there is a chance of forcing a tie with Phillip. Does Ashley beat Rob? Given how much the jury despised him, it is a solid possibility she’d be seen as a palatable alternative. 
 

There are tiny things Ashley could have done differently (build a stronger relationship with Phillip or Andrea), but even with those changes, her best shot at a win was to beat Rob at Final 4 where he’s unprotected, or use her relationship with Natalie to slide into the finals. 
 

tl;dr: I don’t think it’s accurate to lump Ashley into “Rob’s Zombies”. 
 

 

[Lantern7]

Funny 115: The Vince Sly Entry. Not for the faint at heart.

[tvgoddess]

I'm finishing up Amazon (5 players left, I know Jenna wins and I think Rob is voted out at 3), another season I didn't watch when it aired. While it's a good season, and giving Rob credit for coming in from the beginning and thinking strategically throughout almost the entire game, his constant drooling and obsession over Heidi was so gross and such a turn-off. Never mind the fact that I think Heidi's looks are overrated, it was just such OTT stereotypical male behavior. I appreciate his self-deprecating comments about how he's not the best looking or most adept at physical survivor skills. But some of the things he said were just such an obvious tell that he had barely ever been with any girl at that point. He was young, but it makes me cheer Boston Rob even more when he blindsided him in All Stars. Served him right.

[ProfCrash]

Oh, Rob's behavior was embarrassing. He seemed to be the stereotypical nerd type who had little experience with dating. But he played a solid game.  I don't rewatch seasons but he did a good amount of objectification if I am remembering properly.

[tvgoddess]

57 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Oh, Rob's behavior was embarrassing. He seemed to be the stereotypical nerd type who had little experience with dating. But he played a solid game.  I don't rewatch seasons but he did a good amount of objectification if I am remembering properly.

You summarized it perfectly.

[peachmangosteen]

19 minutes ago, LanceM said:

Julia never encouraged it. But you are right she was panning on taking those two goats to the end which would have given her the best chance at the million

I don't remember her encouraging it but she definitely got the stink of those two on her more than, say, Natalie White did when she put up with Russell for 39 days. Julia was definitely using them in the hopes that she could get to the F3 with them and get the super easy win but she also did herself no favors by seeming to enjoy hanging out with them.

But then again I barely remember the details of a season about 5 minutes after it airs so take this with a grain of salt!

[Guest]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't remember her encouraging it but she definitely got the stink of those two on her more than, say, Natalie White did when she put up with Russell for 39 days. Julia was definitely using them in the hopes that she could get to the F3 with them and get the super easy win but she also did herself no favors by seeming to enjoy hanging out with them.

But then again I barely remember the details of a season about 5 minutes after it airs so take this with a grain of salt!

That's essentially how I remember it, too. But I was much less focused on them, than on the dynamic of Aubry and Cydney circling each other as allies waiting to see who would make the first move against the other.

[Hera]

I really wish Cydney would come back. She was my favorite of the Kaôh Rōng cast and I'd love to see what she could do when she has slightly more pleasant people to work with at the start than Scot and Kyle—she had to play the whole game with the latter.

[SVNBob]

3 hours ago, Hera said:

I really wish Cydney would come back.

She's said she's up for it.  I know she's been focusing on her body-building career.  Which has paid off since she's apparently won a major title 3 times.  But she'd really need the time to prepare.  Because she wouldn't really last on the island looking like this:

 

[OutOfTheQuestion]

Redemption Island and Kaoh Rong are both examples of why I still hate a final three, as opposed to a final two.  A final three alliance means one less promise you have to break, and it makes it a lot easier to get to the end with two goats (like Natalie and Phillip, or Tai and an active goat who didn't realize she was a goat like Aubry).  There have been so many seasons now where the entire final seven or eight has been a competition of people fighting to see who gets the opportunity to get next to the two dead-meat goats at FTC.

[Hera]

From the episode thread, in the discussion of whether or not Rob has ever backstabbed anyone:

14 hours ago, simplyme said:

And I'm pretty sure Grant from RI feels like he was backstabbed.

I interpreted Grant's reaction at the Redemption Island reunion as being hurt more than anything else. I think he thought he and Rob had a real friendship and mutual respect during filming, and then watched the show as it aired and did not appreciate the snarky things Rob had to say about everyone in his confessionals that season (or finding out that Rob had sent him on a wild goose chase for an idol Rob had already found).

In fact, now that I think of it, Rob is at least partly to blame for people thinking his win was handed to him. You can't spend a season being dismissive of your tribemates and making them look like idiots for your entertainment and then be upset when the audience agrees with your assessment of your competition.

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, Hera said:

You can't spend a season being dismissive of your tribemates and making them look like idiots for your entertainment ....

When you put it this way, I change my position that Rob is not a bully. He totally is lol.

[tvgoddess]

14 hours ago, Hera said:

You can't spend a season being dismissive of your tribemates and making them look like idiots for your entertainment and then be upset when the audience agrees with your assessment of your competition.

If this is the definition, then Rob Cesternino is a bully too. Because all of his TH's were basically this and his outright treatment of Matthew was complete brainwashing.

[Hera]

@tvgoddess, I'm not sure if you were replying to me or not, but in case you were, I never said that I thought Rob was a bully (because I don't think he is).

Edited February 28, 2020 by Hera

[Rachel RSL]

3 hours ago, tvgoddess said:

If this is the definition, then Rob Cesternino is a bully too. Because all of his TH's were basically this and his outright treatment of Matthew was complete brainwashing.

If this is the definition, then almost everyone who has ever been on a reality show is a bully.

[peachmangosteen]

Ok yea, he’s actually just an unmitigated asshole lol.

[tvgoddess]

Finished up Amazon. On to Pearl Islands! (This little joke of an experiment of mine is actually going pretty well, I thought I'd give up halfway into Australia, but it's been fun so far.)

Looking forward to revisiting Sandra's first season again (it's been a long time). NOT looking forward to Fairplay (gag) or completely overrated Rupert.

[simplyme]

4 hours ago, tvgoddess said:

Looking forward to revisiting Sandra's first season again (it's been a long time). NOT looking forward to Fairplay (gag) or completely overrated Rupert.

I started showing my mother Survivor seasons as a bonding thing a while back. At the time I had access starting with season 12. As we watched, my father would wander through. Then he started watching with us, which was a bit of a surprise to me but awesome.

Now I subscribe to CBS All Access and we went back and started with the first season. We just finished All Stars (8), which we all disliked intensely. (For me, still disliked.)

But the highlight of the early seasons for all three of us has definitely been Pearl Islands (7). That was the first season I ever watched, so I was happy to see it held up. What was particularly amusing to me is that my father immediately recognized Rupert from later seasons and groaned. However, none of us found him quite as grating his first season (though the longer the season went, the more entitled, preachy, and self-righteous he got.) So there is that. He's the best of all the possible Ruperts you could be watching, I'd say.

I found Fairplay less horrible than I remembered him. I mean, he was still clearly an a-hole (especially when drunk), but he is smart and will certainly admit that he's a jerk. (He also actually worked around camp.) That made him slightly more tolerable to me than, say, the Dan Foley types.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, simplyme said:

I found Fairplay less horrible than I remembered him. I mean, he was still clearly an a-hole (especially when drunk), but he is smart and will certainly admit that he's a jerk. (He also actually worked around camp.) That made him slightly more tolerable to me than, say, the Dan Foley types.

I feel like this is typical of reality show "villains". As time goes on, and behavior gets worse, the ones who seemed horrible back in the day don't look so bad anymore. Jerri was absolutely hated when Season 2 first aired, ripped up one side and down the other as a terrible person - but I bet if you watched that season now, you'd wonder what all the fuss was about.

[Lady Calypso]

Well, I took a few weeks' break on my binge watching. I still haven't gotten past episode 1 of Guatemala, but since I don't necessarily need to watch it right now, and since I plan to restart my binge watching today, I think I might actually move to Blood vs Water or Game Changers today. I haven't decided which one yet.

[simplyme]

4 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

I feel like this is typical of reality show "villains". As time goes on, and behavior gets worse, the ones who seemed horrible back in the day don't look so bad anymore. Jerri was absolutely hated when Season 2 first aired, ripped up one side and down the other as a terrible person - but I bet if you watched that season now, you'd wonder what all the fuss was about.

Having just watched Season 2 for the first time not too long ago, she was godawful selfish and vain. It was really painful to watch. She was better in season 8 (finished last night), though still had her moments. From what I remember from season 20, which I've now seen twice but it's been over a year at this point, she was practically delightful by comparison. Almost a kinder, gentler Jerri.

That said, I'd still take her over Dan Foley, but that might be because I'm not Colby.

It's like she and Rupert took opposing paths on the "annoying the Simply Family" arc.

[Sarahsmile416]

On 1/8/2020 at 3:13 AM, BK1978 said:

I still stick by my opinion that Cirie was robbed in Micronesia.  That should have been a final three and I honestly do think that Cirie would have won.  This is not because I cannot stand Parvati and Cirie is one of my favorites, I just think Cirie played a master game that season.  That was the first time she got screwed royally by production.

I love Parvati, but I actually agree with you.   What annoys me about that season is that Cirie is actually low key the impetus between some of the biggest, most epic moves in the game.  She was the one who suggested getting Ozzy out before Jason and then she was the one who just casually mentioned to Natalie about Erik giving her the necklace and came up with the way she could convince him.   Don’t get me wrong, Parvati was an awesome player and I don’t hate that she won, but I think Cirie played a much better game than Amanda (and Parvati to a point) but doesn’t get the credit for it. 
 

Honestly, I love Cirie but she probably shouldn’t have been a Hero lol. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Sarahsmile416
Forgot to specify Cirie

[tvgoddess]

6 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

I feel like this is typical of reality show "villains". As time goes on, and behavior gets worse, the ones who seemed horrible back in the day don't look so bad anymore. Jerri was absolutely hated when Season 2 first aired, ripped up one side and down the other as a terrible person - but I bet if you watched that season now, you'd wonder what all the fuss was about.

I recently re-watched Season 2 not that long ago. She was really bitchy. And it was trash for her to go through Kel's bag. One of my favorite moments of that season was when Colby was so fed up with her, he threw the bucket of water all over her.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, simplyme said:

9 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

I feel like this is typical of reality show "villains". As time goes on, and behavior gets worse, the ones who seemed horrible back in the day don't look so bad anymore. Jerri was absolutely hated when Season 2 first aired, ripped up one side and down the other as a terrible person - but I bet if you watched that season now, you'd wonder what all the fuss was about.

Having just watched Season 2 for the first time not too long ago, she was godawful selfish and vain. It was really painful to watch. She was better in season 8 (finished last night), though still had her moments. From what I remember from season 20, which I've now seen twice but it's been over a year at this point, she was practically delightful by comparison. Almost a kinder, gentler Jerri.

 

2 hours ago, tvgoddess said:

I recently re-watched Season 2 not that long ago. She was really bitchy. And it was trash for her to go through Kel's bag. One of my favorite moments of that season was when Colby was so fed up with her, he threw the bucket of water all over her.

OK, never mind, I guess Jerri really was awful back then. Some things are timeless XD

[Hera]

13 hours ago, simplyme said:

I found Fairplay less horrible than I remembered him. I mean, he was still clearly an a-hole (especially when drunk), but he is smart and will certainly admit that he's a jerk. (He also actually worked around camp.) That made him slightly more tolerable to me than, say, the Dan Foley types.

I think self-awareness makes a huge difference. Johnny Fairplay gleefully leaned into his villainy, while Dan Foley saw himself as smart and likeable. Then you also have someone like Russell Hantz, who knew he was a villain as well, but wasn't self-aware about how good his "moves" were (at best, messing with people's stuff around camp added nothing to his game) or how he was perceived by other players.

Also, while I know Fairplay's Dead Grandma gambit offended a lot of people, I found it hilarious, even if it did end up making players more skeptical and cynical about one another.

[Rachel RSL]

Even back when Fairplay’s season first aired and I couldn’t stand him, I always thought his dead grandma scheme was impressive. Not saying it’s something I personally would have done but when you look at it from a game point of view, he came up with a plan before he was even on the island and executed it perfectly. 

[fishcakes]

I thought the execution was just so-so, what with Thunder D's monotone, "she died, dude."  But then Lil jumped in and unwittingly sold it.

She was sobbing so hard, you'd think it was her grandma who fake-died.

[tvgoddess]

I don't have that much of a problem with his fake dead grandma. I just find him kind of repulsive to look at. Much like Russell, he's just really unattractive. I know that makes me horribly shallow. But I like to see nice looking people on my screen. If I wanted ugly, I'd look in the mirror.

[nlkm9]

So which season was yuman? The guy who promised his car to “dreamz “ and had to give it to him even though he lied? Or is it yauman? I loved that guys .