Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[jsm1125]

If Erik, in reality, voted for Amanda despite her dismal final tribal council performance, I'm not sure that Cirie's presence in the finals would have changed his vote. So I think it's possible that we would have seen an Amanda win in a final three.

[KimberStormer]

I have come to believe that Amanda could very well have pulled it out in an F3 with Ozzy and James as sure votes and Erik a very good possibility.  But that's just conjecture on my part.  (I love Eliza in the game...but she is full of baloney on social media etc.)

 

As sad as I am that Cirie never got her win (she should have won Panama...one lousy fire-making challenge away!  Because Terry is an arrogant moron who thought he didn't need to worry about beating a mere girl!) I do love that Parvati won and did it in what is, for my money, the best possible way to win--lose final immunity and get taken to the end and win anyway.

[Mrs. P.]

.....

As sad as I am that Cirie never got her win (she should have won Panama...one lousy fire-making challenge away! Because Terry is an arrogant moron who thought he didn't need to worry about beating a mere girl!) I do love that Parvati won and did it in what is, for my money, the best possible way to win--lose final immunity and get taken to the end and win anyway.

Kind of like the way Natalie won this past season? :) Edited December 26, 2014 by Mrs. P.

[kikaha]

Question for the board: if Amanda had taken Cirie instead of Parvati, who would have won? 

 

Mrs. P., to me Parv's is a bit more impressive, because it was a F2.  All or nothing.  e.g., if Jaclyn only had to choose one to go with her, I don't think it would have been Natalie.  

[jsm1125]

I think that, had Amanda taken Cirie instead of Parvati, Cirie would have won. Eliza genuinely liked and respected Cirie, Jason would have probably respected Cirie's gameplay, Alexis and Natalie seemed thoroughly disgusted with Amanda, and Parvati seemed to think more highly of Cirie as a player than she did Amanda.

[choclatechip45]

 

If Erik, in reality, voted for Amanda despite her dismal final tribal council performance, I'm not sure that Cirie's presence in the finals would have changed his vote. So I think it's possible that we would have seen an Amanda win in a final three.

Erik and Alexis both looked pretty upset when Cirie was voted out and at ponderosa (I forgot if it was when she was voted or at ponderosa.) Which why I think they would of voted for her. Also, depending  if Cirie did really  in her FTC performance I could see either James or Jason voting for her.

Edited December 27, 2014 by choclatechip45

[bafleyanne]

I think that, had Amanda taken Cirie instead of Parvati, Cirie would have won. Eliza genuinely liked and respected Cirie, Jason would have probably respected Cirie's gameplay, Alexis and Natalie seemed thoroughly disgusted with Amanda, and Parvati seemed to think more highly of Cirie as a player than she did Amanda.

I agree. I don't think, as the game stood at a F2 situation, Amanda could win regardless. Essentially her vote at final 3 was who to give the million dollars to.

Now whether she could have won at F3...that's an interesting question. I honestly don't know.

[Oholibamah]

I have been a pretty consistent proponent of the unfortunate "Amanda would win in a F3" scenario. However, I think I have been naive about how much jury collusion really goes on out there. It wasn't until Reed pulled the "deny Missy 15K" vote for Jaclyn that I realized that these people all know who everybody is voting for ahead of time.

 

If Natalie/Jason want to vote Parvati and Eliza/Alexis want to vote Cirie, I can't imagine they would just let it go to a 3-2-2 split and let Amanda take it. They would talk it out ahead of time, come to a consensus, and make it a 4-3-0 vote.

 

I imagine Eliza would have enough pull over the "Fans" to bring Natalie/Jason to her side and maybe even pull in Erik to make it 5-2-0 since he also loved Cirie. But who knows. I am rewatching HvV and it's hilarious to hear Amanda in episode 2 openly admit how terrible she is at TC.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Oholibamah

[ByaNose]

I was just alway impressed that Amanda made back to back finals. I still think that's pretty impressive. Of course, Russell did it too but I don't think they were back to back.

[choclatechip45]

I know Erik has said in interviews he would of voted for Cirie over Amanda, but this is after the season so who knows if confessionals/seeing the show influenced him. Cirie wasn't the nicest to Erik though behind his back so I tend to think it would influence the other way.

 

I was just alway impressed that Amanda made back to back finals. I still think that's pretty impressive. Of course, Russell did it too but I don't think they were back to back.

 

They saw the first few episodes of China no one really remembered Amanda from the show since she didn't get to much airtime in the beginning. The whole reason Amanda didn't like Eliza was because the minute they got to the favorites beach Eliza took Amanda aside and asked her if it was true she won Survivor China since Eliza read the spoilers.

[kikaha]

ByaNose, I'm pretty sure Russell did play back-to-back.  On the one hand that was an advantage:no one knew him or his style of play.  OTOH, he had no relationships or alliances going into the season.  Given his personality, the first benefit probably outweighed the second. 

 

Malcolm also played back to back.  After his 2nd season he said his body had no time to recover from the first season, and that impacted his play, especially the challenges where he seemed to underperform. 

[bafleyanne]

Russell did also play back to back. And something people seem to forget is that James also went right from China to Micronesia.

I was amused seeing Probst giving Amanda a hard time on the Micronesia reunion about getting to the finals twice and losing both times. ;) And also watching that reunion made me nostalgic for the days when the reunion show was about actually talking to the players and not random audience members or people not cast in that season. Sure wish they'd go back to that.

[choclatechip45]

 

And something people seem to forget is that James also went right from China to Micronesia.

It's different with James, Micronesia didn't start filming until a couple episodes of China already aired. According to WIkipedia China filed during the summer of 2007 finished early August while Micronesia didn't start filming until late October of 2007. They didn't start filming the seasons back to back until Samoa. It's the same thing that happened with Rupert All-Stars started filming after the first few episodes of Pearl Islands aired.

Edited December 28, 2014 by choclatechip45

[ByaNose]

The back to back is a tricky thing. Season 30 will have been done over 6 months ago when it finally airs. Granted, it's not having any returnees but if it did they wouldn't have known Jon, Jaclyn, Missy or Baylor. Of course, they would know Natalie & Nadyia.

Just wanted to get the filming dates correct. For San Juan Del Sur the filming dates was June 2, 2014 - July 10, 2014. And, I assume World Apart was a few weeks later which would will be aired 6-7 months later but filmed back to back.

Edited December 29, 2014 by ByaNose

[kikaha]

Just watched Exile Island again (season 12).  My reactions:

 

Te challenges were more physical than now. 

 

Shane was entertaining, in an insanely delusional kind of way. 

 

Cirie, besides being the master strategist/social player of the season, also performed real well at many team challenges.  She had a number of strengths the team could exploit. 

 

Both tribes were almost perfectly matched.  In several ICs, only a few seconds separated winner from loser.  But those few seconds gave the numbers to Cirie/Aras' tribe, and that set the course for the rest of the game. 

 

Terry was in most respects an outstanding player, as a leader, a tribemate, a challenge beast, socially (until the last few episodes) and even strategically, where he repeatedly tried to use his HII to lure people from the other alliance.  His problems were that 1) the target was on his back from the start, i.e. everyone on the other tribe desperately wanted to boot him; 2) no one thought they could beat him at the end, so they didn't want to align with him; 3) he lost the coin toss Danielle performed in her mind when deciding who to take to F2.  

 

Aras winning F4 IC cost Cirie the game.  If Terry had won, they would have booted Aras.  F3 then is Danielle, Cirie and Terry.  Danielle still would win the FIC, and I think she would have taken Cirie with her, who gets nearly all the votes for Sole Survivor.     

 

I didn't like Aras.  When push came to shove, that new age enlightened persona he tried to project seemed phony to me.  He threatened his way into F2... was only too eager to get into (and at times initiate) trash talking bouts with Terry... and desperately wanted to win ICs after merge.  His speech at FTC about integrity rang hollow to me. 

 

It didn't matter who Danielle chose for F2.  She couldn't have beaten any of the F4 IMO. 

 

I'm curious who would have won if F3 had gone to FTC (probably need to include Nick in the jury in this case).  My guess is Terry.  Sally, Austin, Nick and Shane would have voted for him.  Probably Bruce, too.  That's five votes out of seven and the win.

[Oholibamah]

Terry's use of the HII to "lure" members of the majority were pathetic. He thought that whipping it out was sufficient enough to make them want to jump ship before proceeding to offer them the bottom rung in his alliance. With Cirie specifically, he behaved as if even sharing space with him let alone an alliance would be an honor for Cirie that she shouldn't hesitate in taking.

Yes, his maneuvering at the endgame was more successful with his ability to align with Danielle and force a tie - but under normal circumstances he never should have made it there. Winning every challenge is helpful, but is a terrible strategy because, as we saw, some challenges simply will not play to your strengths.

Had he used the Idol to get out Aras at 8, Bruce is medevaced at 7, and suddenly he's in a Final 6 scenario with Sally as a solid ally, two wishy washy goats, and Cirie and Danielle as opposition. Much better odds than facing down the barell of a gargantuan alliance.

On top of being a complete douche, I think Terry misplayed at every turn and am pleased as punch to this day that he lost.

[kikaha]

 

Do you really think Terry would of won  the final vote over Danielle? I don't see Cirie or Aras, voting for him. which would of given Danielle 4 votes since Bruce and Shane voted for her over Aras

 

Aras convinced Danielle to take him, in part, by promising her that if she didn't, both he and Cirie would vote for Terry.  Sally and Austin would have voted for him.  At FTC Shane declared Terry the best player of all, the most most deserving.  So it's reasonable to think Terry gets his vote as well. 

 

That's five votes already.  Courtney bore a lot of animosity towards Danielle: another likely Terry vote.  And Bruce admired him. 

 

So I think Terry wins, at least 5-2, likely 6-1, and possibly 7-0. 

[choclatechip45]

 

3) he lost the coin toss Danielle performed in her mind when deciding who to take to F2

It wasn't a coin toss. Cirie and Aras threatened Danielle at the final 4 and said if you take Terry to the final 2 neither of us will vote for you. That is if you ever read

Danielle's pre game interviews before Heroes vs Villains she says she doesn't trust Cirie and will never align with her again because she back stabbed me. In an interview after Heroes vs Villains someone asked her about it and she said that she was really upset they never showed it on TV, but she was really betrayed by the fact that Cirie voted for Aras over her. In a recent RHAP interview Aras confirmed it and that it was Cirie's idea.

 

And Bruce admired him.

 

So I think Terry wins, at least 5-2, likely 6-1, and possibly 7-0.

I don't think Bruce would of voted for Terry over Danielle. They had this father-daughter relationship out there and were pretty close. I think Danielle would of had Cirie and Bruce. Aras said that even though Cirie told Danielle she wouldn't have voted she probably would have anyway because she really disliked Terry.  Honestly Courtney and Shane are such loose cannons, it came out in everyone's post-show interviews that Shane had a crush on Danielle. So even though Shane said it in his FTC speech that day I don't think it was a sure vote.

Edited January 1, 2015 by choclatechip45

[kikaha]

 

Had he used the Idol to get out Aras at 8, Bruce is medevaced at 7, and suddenly he's in a Final 6 scenario with Sally as a solid ally,

 

If he uses the idol at 8, he's still way down in the numbers (5-2)... the biggest target in the game... with zero protection.  He has to win the next 3 ICs or get booted for sure.  And even if he does win all those ICs, Sally is the next boot.  He again is on his own.  i.e. in reality he still had to run the table at challenges, or join the jury.  Your proposal wouldn't have changed a thing for him. 

 

Even if he knew Bruce would leave the game, he's still down 4-2.  He still must win or get booted.  But it was impossible to know or base any decisions on that. 

[kikaha]

chocolatechip: I know that Aras threatened Danielle.  Still, I think she was torn over who to take.  She said that was true -- repeatedly -- and that was my read of her from watching the final episodes. 

 

Surprised she thought Cirie would vote for her over Aras.  Those two seemed tighter than anyone else out there, and Danielle finally aligned with Terry because Aras chose Cirie over her at the F4 reward challenge. 

 

As for how she would do in an F2 with Terry, it's impossible to know for sure.  fwiw, at the reunion, I believe the straw vote gave Terry the win, 5-2.  So long as he gave a decent performance at FTC, I expected something in that neighborhood.   

[choclatechip45]

 

chocolatechip: I know that Aras threatened Danielle.  Still, I think she was torn over who to take.  She said that was true -- repeatedly -- and that was my read of her from watching the final episodes.Surprised she thought Cirie would vote for her over Aras.  Those two seemed tighter than anyone else out there, and Danielle finally aligned with Terry because Aras chose Cirie over her at the F4 reward challenge.

Oh I agree! When I heard that I think in her Survivor Oz interview I was shocked. I guess maybe that was one of Cirie's strengths that she seemed close with everyone in Casaya? Yeah, Danielle said in her Survivor Oz interview that the fact she would loose Cirie's vote was what convinced her to take Aras she did say she thinks she would of taken Aras anyways because she was aligned with him from the beginning and liked him better than Terry.

 

If he uses the idol at 8, he's still way down in the numbers (5-2)... the biggest target in the game... with zero protection.  He has to win the next 3 ICs or get booted for sure.  And even if he does win all those ICs, Sally is the next boot.  He again is on his own.  i.e. in reality he still had to run the table at challenges, or join the jury.  Your proposal wouldn't have changed a thing for him.

I don't think Terry was very good at the social game. I think his flaw was that he wasn't use to being the underdog and that really made him frustrated. He seems like the type of guy that expected everything to go his way for whatever reason.

Edited January 1, 2015 by choclatechip45

[kikaha]

 

I don't think Terry was very good at the social game. I think his flaw was that he wasn't use to being the underdog and that really made him frustrated. He seems like the type of guy that expected everything to go his way for whatever reason.

 

Terry was fine at the social game inside his tribe (La Mina).  He was the leader they all liked, looked up to, leaned on to hold things together.  They were overjoyed when he came back from the isle of exile.  (Where he quickly found the HII.)  

 

But IMO it wouldn't have mattered how good Terry was at the social game.  Casaya (the other tribe) wanted him gone.  Just like it didn't matter how good Malcolm was at the social game his second season.  He played his idol(s)... it was a cool move that bounced one of the dominant alliance... and as soon as he lost an IC he was gone.  He was too big a threat.  All his scrambling bought him nothing.   

 

In Terry's case Casaya put the target on him from the start.  They sent him to Exile Island whenever they could, because they knew he was the leader of his tribe, and the others would fall apart without him. 

 

The strategy worked.  Casaya entered merge with the numbers.  They also immediately let Terry know he was the guy they were going to boot.  They turned down every offer to flip.  Not only Terry's offers, but Austin's offers and Sally's offers too.   

 

The IC at 8 said it all.  Jeff offered burgers, fries and drinks to anyone who felt secure enough to opt out of the challenge.  Terry and Sally, the only remaining members of La Mina, took part.  Only one person from Casaya (Aras) took part.  All the other five Casaya members sat on the sidelines, filling their bellies.  They knew they had nothing to worry about. 

 

IMO Kim had to win the FIC, or she would not have made it to FTC.  Same with Boston Rob his winning season.  Same with Sophie.  Same with Jenna.  Same with Judd.  Cirie's inability to win key ICs cost her the game, not once but twice.  Rob C lost the game because he couldn't win a critical IC.   

 

Terry was in a similar do-or-die position, just about every week after merge.  His idol meant he could afford to lose just once.  After that he was gone.  Cirie pointed this out.  She said Terry wouldn't play the idol for someone else, because to do so would be the dumbest move in Survivor history, and meant he'd have to win every challenge from there on. 

 

Without the numbers, which Casaya would not budge on for anyone, she was right on both points. 

[Donny Ketchum]

I personally like JT's game in HvV a lot--he realized that he had to play completely differently, because this was the kind of group who would vote him out quickly, extra-quickly, in fact, because it was an All-Stars and these were aggressive, strong players.  He used Tom to get rid of Cirie, a well-known Survivor big game hunter; then he turned right around and got rid of Tom, the Hero most like himself, who could fill the niche he needed to fill as a challenge winner and natural leader.  He went for a big crazy move with the idol handoff partly, I'm sure, because he wanted a spectacular move for his FTC resume (little did he know that he was giving one to Parvati instead, though it didn't do her much good) and partly because he's just a big showy creative player, which I love about him.  To me that merge showdown between him and Parv should have been a winner-defining moment--they both took a huge game-changing risk which should have either won them the game or sent them to Ponderosa; where JT's game goes sour for me is that he was a shitty, partisan, sexist jury member.  (Should we consider their jury performance as part of their Survivor game?  I think we should.)  Unfortunately there was no question that he would ever vote for Parvati, and that sucks, because they were very similar and she got the better of him, and it was in my opinion small of him to not acknowledge it.

@KimberStormer, I see you continuously heap praise upon praise for J.T.'s game in Heroes vs. Villains when I frankly don't see why.  Every single point you make just keeps bringing me back to one thing: no one on the Heroes tribe ended up trusting him and actually ended up throwing him right to the bottom of their totem pole.  Colby, Amanda, and Candice have ALL said that had they faced one more Tribal Council before the merge, he would've been gone.  And the fact that he was willing to give up his idol showed that he really had no grasp on his situation at all.  So no, I have no love or even liking for his game and can't see why anyone would.

[KimberStormer]

@KimberStormer, I see you continuously heap praise upon praise for J.T.'s game in Heroes vs. Villains when I frankly don't see why...So no, I have no love or even liking for his game and can't see why anyone would.

 

Oh well!  It's a matter of taste.  If the Heroes had gone to tribal again I don't think it would make any difference who was left at the merge, they all would be doomed, idol or no idol.  I like JT's chances of winning over a Villain or two over any of the other Hero morons who made the merge, and I like him in challenges against most of them too.  Being the only one willing to be a "villain" (i.e. to play the game) on a tribe of stoops who'd rather blather Rupertishly about integrity is an asset, not a hindrance.  (I'm sure Amanda was planning to actually play, too, but I don't think any of the Villains would look at her twice, if she even had the courage to cross party lines, which I'm not sure she did.  She took Todd instead of Denise, after all.)

 

But the bigger point is not really about good play, strategy, etc, just that much like Probst, I have a bias towards people who play big and crazy instead of boring and "rational".  South Pacific is what happens when people play by-the-numbers Survivor like the online fans continually demand.  I'm not into it.  Give me a bold doomed move like Reed's split-vote try any day.

Edited January 5, 2015 by KimberStormer

[snoopythecat]

Kimber, it's interesting that you mention preferring big, bold moves, because I know you also love Kim -- whose game I'd classify as coolly rational rather than than big and bold. What is it about Kim's game that you loved? (I personally love both types of play, although I hate the bloviating, self-aggrandizing confessionals that often accompany the big and bold style.)

One thing I loved about about HvV was the way the producers messed with the players' heads by openly labeling them "Heroes" and "Villains." As a result the Heroes felt pressure to play "heroically," while the Villains' label freed them to play in a more underhanded manner. However, the Heroes saw themselves as "better" than the Villains and automatically more deserving of the win; therefore, as others have noted, they were never going to give the money to a Villain unless they only had Villains from whom to choose.

I've often wondered how the season would have played out had the producers informed us the viewers of the theme but never let on to the players themselves that they were being classified as Heroes and Villains.

ETA: Damn you, autocorrect!

Edited January 5, 2015 by snoopythecat

[choclatechip45]

Well lets be honest Rupert takes any theme and goes with it. Remember the whole Pirate thing he did in Pearl Island?

[snoopythecat]

Probst has said that the best Survivor seasons tend to be the ones where they have their cast in place first and then choose the theme for the season. But in earlier seasons, including Pearl Islands, the theme was often inspired by the locale chosen. It makes me wonder whether they picked the cast first and the theme was inspired by Rupert's look, or they already had a pirate theme planned and then somebody in casting saw Rupert's audition video and said, "Jackpot! It's Blackbeard in tie-dye!"

Edited January 5, 2015 by snoopythecat

[choclatechip45]

I would love to see Rupert's casting interviews. I remember he put down as his favorite drink 2% Cow's milk.

[KimberStormer]

Kimber, it's interesting that you mention preferring big, bold moves, because I know you also love Kim -- whose game I'd classify as coolly rational rather than than big and bold. What is it about Kim's game that you loved? (I personally love both types of play, although I hate the bloviating, self-aggrandizing confessionals that often accompany the big and bold style.)

 

For me Kim's excellence was a kind of big boldness in itself--I don't know how to explain it really.  I just remember, for example, when Chelsea said something ambiguous and set off alarm bells in Jay's head, and Kim didn't get mad or even hesitate, she just said "I'm gonna go talk to him" and walked off immediately to fix the problem and I feel like I've never really seen that before or since, this lack of any angst, just a smooth stride through the game like a tiger through the grass.  Or when she sold Troyzan on the idea that Michael was gunning for him and he fell for it so hard and probably thought that voting Mike out was all his own idea.  (Which also reminds me of one of my favorite secret scenes of all time -- a stone cold killer, that Kim.)

 

Perhaps what I like about both Kim's play is the same thing that I like about Parvati or JT's BIG MOVES; it feels to me like the sort of fearlessness that comes for remembering it's just a game, in the end.  Not the cocky Russell kind of fearlessness/bravado, which comes from taking the game too seriously and therefore thinking you're "better" than other people if you "beat" them, just as a lot of wilting violets worry too much about what will happen if their attempts fail than what will happen if they don't make the attempt.  (In this I must regretfully include another favorite of mine, Lisa Welchel.)  I always like people who have fun, who are playing, in every sense.  To me Parvati and Kim played that way, Tom played that way, Brandon and Taj played that way, etc: they were just really happy to be there and willing to take risks and be creative.  I don't enjoy people who take the game super-seriously such that they get furious when things don't go their way, like the Onions, or such that they play like rational businessmen like Yul or Sophie.

 

Honestly, I would never have said that Kim didn't play big and bold or that One World was a boring season.  I just heard that on the Internet.  Actually, my first time posting on TWOP was when Kim won and I just had to talk about how happy I was about it.

Edited January 6, 2015 by KimberStormer

[treeofdreams]

Who do you think is the most popular winner?  I've always thought it was Yul, but I haven't watched all the seasons, and don't have as good a memory of past players as you all have.

 

And while we are at it, who do you think was the least popular winner?

 

I'm speaking of popular with viewers, not popular within the game.  Although that might be an interesting question as well.  Being popular with your fellow players doesn't necessarily mean winning.

[Hera]

I don't think Terry was very good at the social game. I think his flaw was that he wasn't use to being the underdog and that really made him frustrated. He seems like the type of guy that expected everything to go his way for whatever reason.

 

Terry was fine at the social game inside his tribe (La Mina).  He was the leader they all liked, looked up to, leaned on to hold things together.  They were overjoyed when he came back from the isle of exile.  (Where he quickly found the HII.)  

 

But IMO it wouldn't have mattered how good Terry was at the social game.  Casaya (the other tribe) wanted him gone.

 

...

 

IMO Kim had to win the FIC, or she would not have made it to FTC.  Same with Boston Rob his winning season.  Same with Sophie.  Same with Jenna.  Same with Judd.

I think Terry is the kind of guy who is usually the one in charge. That's why he was fine when it was just La Mina—he was the leader, everyone did as he said, and no one posed a threat to him. But once the tribes merged and he was on the wrong side of the numbers, he couldn't adjust his thinking or his strategy. Every time he tried to "use the idol" to get someone to flip, his pitch was, "How would you like to spend the next couple of votes helping me pick off your allies? You won't have to worry about a thing until they're all gone." He also kept approaching people as though he were the one helping them by bestowing extra days in the game that they wouldn't otherwise have. In reality, he needed the people he was talking to much more than they needed him. The Casaya alliance may well have held strong regardless of what Terry did, but I don't think his approach helped him at all—I think showing a little humility would have yielded better results.

 

As for the people who "needed" to win the final immunity challenge, I suspect it's true for most of the people listed, but I think there is a very good chance that Kim and Boston Rob could have gotten someone to take them. Kim's allies were extremely loyal to her (I seem to remember one of them—maybe Sabrina?—saying in a confessional that another player needed to go because she had almost beaten Kim in an immunity challenge) and I'm not so sure that her dominance was as apparent to the people still in the game as it was to everyone watching. As for Boston Rob—if he hadn't won the challenge (unlikely, given that he made sure that he went to the later part of the game with people who were unlikely to beat him in challenges in the first place), I think he could have convinced the winner to take him by claiming that everyone on the jury hated him and would never vote for him or by using some sort of appeal to loyalty. His tribe was basically a cult and by the end, I think he could have talked any of them into anything.

[fishcakes]

Who do you think is the most popular winner?  I've always thought it was Yul, but I haven't watched all the seasons, and don't have as good a memory of past players as you all have.

 

And while we are at it, who do you think was the least popular winner?

 

I'm speaking of popular with viewers, not popular within the game.  Although that might be an interesting question as well.  Being popular with your fellow players doesn't necessarily mean winning.

 

I would say Bob Crowley is probably the least popular winner, not because he wasn't a good guy or anything (although, really, I have almost no memory of him) but because he's the one no one ever talks about. But thinking back on Gabon, I'd almost guess that anyone who won that season would be least popular because they were either hated by the audience or basically hapless. Most popular is harder to say because everyone has their very vocal detractors who have a list of reasons (or maybe just one reason that they repeat over and over) as to why that person shouldn't have won his or her season. If they did an All-Star season of all winners, I don't think there would be any one person favored to win by the audience.

[auchic]

Brian Heidik was an irritatingly boring winner from an irritatingly boring season. He was the literal definition of the lesser of two evils.

[ProfCrash]

Didn't Brian have a pretty shady past as well? Fabio goes down as the worst winner on a lot of lists. Last season and this season I saw people in the press writing that if Wu or Keith won they would replace Fabio as the worst winner ever.

[choclatechip45]

 

Who do you think is the most popular winner?  I've always thought it was Yul, but I haven't watched all the seasons, and don't have as good a memory of past players as you all have.

Ethan Zohn and Tom Westman. Both were easily the fan favorite of there season. Ozzy won the fan favorite vote for Cook Islands, Yul was runner-up. The fan bases towards the end were pretty split you were either an Ozzy or Yul fan. I don't think Cook Islands had a clear fan favorite.

 

And while we are at it, who do you think was the least popular winner?

Brian Hedik it came out he was a porn star and right before the finale his wife was arrested for hitting him. I thin Probst mentioned in an interview that they felt Brian was the least popular among fans. The thing with Bob Crowley is that he won the fan favorite so it's hard for me to say he is the least popular.

 

 

I'm speaking of popular with viewers, not popular within the game.  Although that might be an interesting question as well.  Being popular with your fellow players doesn't necessarily mean winning.

I remember Lex being really popular in Africa among his fellow players the only person who didn't like him was Kelly Goldsmith. I remember all the players would talk about what a great guy he was, however he was one of the least popular players among the viewers.

Edited January 9, 2015 by choclatechip45

[Maverick]

Veceipia wasn't one of the most popular winners either. I haven't seen the season/reunion since it first aired, but I think even then it was kinda of subdued and boring. While no one liked Brian, he had some form of personality and impact on the game even if it was negative.

[fishcakes]

I thought of Brian, but he at least seems to have fans who think he played a great game, even though he turned out to be a pretty heinous person. The porn doesn't bother me (as I recall, it was just Cinemax After Dark and not hard core porn), but the story about him shooting a puppy with a bow and arrow makes him unredeemable. Even so, I think there are more people who would want to see Brian play again than Bob. I'd put Fabio in the same category as Bob too. Likeable enough, but really only won because the jury was voting against his competition rather than for him.

 

Vecepia was really unpopular too for the longest time, although I always thought her game was underrated. I think we've had so many seasons since then with really bad players who literally do nothing but get dragged to the end that, in retrospect, her game gets a lot more respect. But, yeah, if this were Season 15 or so, I think Vecepia would be the least popular.

[choclatechip45]

I forgot about Vecepia, but she was definitely one of the least popular winners. Plus she helped kill the Fallon Comrades challenge by bringing a notebook and writing everything down. The thing is with Brian is that Thailand is the least popular season among the first 8 seasons when the show was really popular.

Edited January 9, 2015 by choclatechip45

[Special K]

I thought Brian's play was brilliant, like scary good.  He invented the drag-a-goat strategy, which has been used practically every season since.  

 

But that doesn't mean I liked him.  At all.  And the puppy thing probably makes him the most reviled of all Survivors, after the fact.  With Johnny Fairplay and the Hantzes in that category as well.  Unless Colton is the most reviled?

[Mike Teevee]

I forgot about Vecepia, but she was definitely one of the least popular winners. Plus she helped kill the Fallon Comrades challenge by bringing a notebook and writing everything down.

What killed the Fallen Comrades challenge was the producer screw-up in S3 Africa. They asked a question about a Survivor with no piercings. Kim J. answered Kelly, and Lex answered Lindsay. While both answers were correct, production gave the point to Kim J. Cut to the Africa Reunion, when the S16 were watching the final episode. Lindsay is watching this challenge for the first time and tells Lex he WAS correct also, she has no piercings. Of course, by that time Marquesas had already finished taping, and included the Fallen Comrades challenge, but going forward producers decided to stay away from the challenge.

Meanwhile, the story is they made retribution to Lex by giving him 2nd place prize money, and a guaranteed slot on the All-Star cast.

[choclatechip45]

 

What killed the Fallen Comrades challenge was the producer screw-up in S3 Africa. They asked a question about a Survivor with no piercings. Kim J. answered Kelly, and Lex answered Lindsay. While both answers were correct, production gave the point to Kim J. Cut to the Africa Reunion, when the S16 were watching the final episode. Lindsay is watching this challenge for the first time and tells Lex he WAS correct also, she has no piercings. Of course, by that time Marquesas had already finished taping, and included the Fallen Comrades challenge, but going forward producers decided to stay away from the challenge.

Meanwhile, the story is they made retribution to Lex by giving him 2nd place prize money, and a guaranteed slot on the All-Star cast.

They also gave Big Tom 2nd place money and a guaranteed slot in All-Stars. Even with the screw up in Africa it does not take away the fact Vecepia chose a notebook and  pen as her luxury item to write down information about everyone and studied it in case she made it far enough to participate in the fallen comrade challenge. She said this in her post game interviews and said it on RHAP during One World.

[Mike Teevee]

They also gave Big Tom 2nd place money and a guaranteed slot in All-Stars. Even with the screw up in Africa it does not take away the fact Vecepia chose a notebook and  pen as her luxury item to write down information about everyone and studied it in case she made it far enough to participate in the fallen comrade challenge. She said this in her post game interviews and said it on RHAP during One World.

Certainly, they even aired it on the show. They showed Vecepia studying from her notebook, while the other players were asking her for the answers. And Paschal thought the most fair approach would be for everyone to compare notes, LOL.

The easy fix if they didn't want that to occur would be to ban notebooks and writing instruments as luxury items. Of course, nowadays they don't have luxury items because we wouldn't want any of the players revealing a personality that wasn't created by the editors. [/sarcasm]

[choclatechip45]

Certainly, they even aired it on the show. They showed Vecepia studying from her notebook, while the other players were asking her for the answers. And Paschal thought the most fair approach would be for everyone to compare notes, LOL.

I completely forgot they aired that.

[ToastnBacon]

The easy fix if they didn't want that to occur would be to ban notebooks and writing instruments as luxury items. Of course, nowadays they don't have luxury items because we wouldn't want any of the players revealing a personality that wasn't created by the editors. [/sarcasm]

I have been wondering how thorough they search the players prior to departure.

If they don't do body cavity searches, I would smuggle in as many fake clues printed out on that parchment paper as I could fit up there.

I bet you could roll them up tight, cover them in plastic and get at least a dozen or so in there.

You could cause a lot of chaos by flooding the camp with nonsensical clues. I can only imagine Jeff's reaction to such a thing.

[henripootel]

Of course, nowadays they don't have luxury items because we wouldn't want any of the players revealing a personality that wasn't created by the editors. [/sarcasm]

 

Crafted, Mike, crafted.  But a fair point, and one which makes me fear for the upcoming season.  I see the 'no collars' being 'encouraged' to act like the no-account lay-abouts that production wants, and Probst asking lots of questions like this: 'Hey, Hardworking Guy Who Was Never Given Anything, does it ever bother you that Hippy Guy expects you to do all the work?'

If they don't do body cavity searches, I would smuggle in as many fake clues printed out on that parchment paper as I could fit up there.

For as much hard cash as I'd pay to see you do this, Toast, I fear the ubiquitous PAs would confiscate your 'prison wallet' contents the moment they were revealed.  If you go ahead and try anyway, I'd suggest keistering the real clues briefly so that they, uh, smell the same.  I would seriously watch this season and never say another bad thing about Survivor as long as I live.

Edited January 14, 2015 by henripootel

[ToastnBacon]

For as much hard cash as I'd pay to see you do this, Toast, I fear the ubiquitous PAs would confiscate your 'prison wallet' contents the moment they were revealed.  If you go ahead and try anyway, I'd suggest keistering the real clues briefly so that they, uh, smell the same.  I would seriously watch this season and never say another bad thing about Survivor as long as I live.

I'm not sure how the PAs would react to such a stunt, but assuming they would be annoyed at being thrown a curve ball like that.

It would be great if you could keep it a secret, and plant a few around camp undetected by the film crew, and fellow players.

I'm sure it would cause a major dilemma for the crew if fake clues started being found in the trees and they didn't know who was behind it.

However, I'm guessing that there is some type of clause in the rules that prohibits smuggling any items into the game.

I think a lawyer would be the one to thwart using a prison wallet, not a PA.

[Trick Question]

The least popular winner ever at the time of the actual victory was far and away Jenna Morasca.  Her win was treated with VENOM both online and from the casual fans, both because she was edited to be such a villain and because Matt was seen as far more deserving...it was just that the audience wasn't made aware of just how skeeved out the jury was by Matt's weird personality. 

[Daisy]

There's a game that is being played on my Survivor facebook page right now: 

If you could only watch Odd-Number Survivor Seasons or Even-Number Survivor Seasons, what would you pick? 

 

I -without hesitation picked - Odd. I love Borneo, Africa is what made me a fan, I get Pearl Islands (which means i get Sandra 1.0), I get Guatemala, I get  Cook Islands (yay. Yul) - a lot of good game play and seasons that I enjoy. And the benefit is: I only get 2 servings of Hantz. (1 Russel, 1 Brandon)

 

But then when thinking about it, I miss all the seasons where my favourite people or moments are in.
Australia had a little bit of everything
Season 4 had John peeing on on Kathy's hand, and the coconut chop challenge

I wouldn't have Cirie at all (she was in 12-16-20)

I don't get the best tribal council bar non (Edguardo's blindside)

I don't get any Rob Cesterino... or Boston Rob, looking at it.            

 

It's interesting how that worked out. my favoruite seasons were odd but my favourite memories were even. 

[kikaha]

Not sure which thread this question belongs in, but since it applies to Survivor in general, I'll ask here. 

 

Do the showrunners change things, mid-course, according to how the season unfolds?  e.g. do they add twists, turns, shuffles, challenges, etc.-- that were not planned pre-season -- to make the season more exciting/dramatic/less predictable?  

 

I know that after a medevac, tribal sometimes gets cancelled.  In Stephenie's first season, when her tribe had been decimated down to just two, she competed one-on-one with Bobby Jon in a fire-making contest. 

 

How common is this?  I'm wondering how often it has impacted the final outcome.  Seems like it has the potential to affect the game a whole lot.   

[Hera]

Good questions; I don't know the answers, but that won't stop me from speculation.

 

I have a strong suspicion that they always have contingency plans for a tribal reshuffle if one tribe is completely terrible at challenges. At this point, players pretty much need to factor in that this might happen, especially on seasons that start out with three or more tribes. As for medevacs and quitters—I've sometimes wondered if they change final tribal council so that it's at final two instead of final three or if they plan double eliminations episodes that they can change to normal ones if these situations come up, but I'm less sure about this. After all, Nicaragua had two people quit and still had the final tribal council at final three. I'm sure whatever contingency plans they have regarding medevacs and quitters depend largely on how many people and days/rounds are left in the game.