Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[ProfCrash]

Vytas is so full of bitter it is disgusting. Even if Kelley found the idol clue within the first 30 minutes, which I seriously doubt, she didn't need to use it until after the merge. Obviously Kelley found it pretty fast, sometime in the first two days, and she might have found it on the first day. I doubt that she was given any help in finding it. Her tribe had Spencer, Shirin and Jeff Varner on it. If Production was going to help anyone, it would have been one of those three. Hell, the tribe had Kelly Wiglesworth who they wanted to turn into a major story. Imagine if she had found the idol?

 

So, yeah. Vytas can go back and work on his meditation and yoga and drain some of the insanely high levels of negativity he has.

 

Kelley was looking for the idol and found the clue. She was able to figure out when she could safely grab it. She played it at the right time and knocked out a big player. There is nothing weak in that game play.

[Skeeter22]

I didn't think Vytas implied anything about Kelley, other than she found the clue to the idol immediately.

[Lantern7]

For those who devote more memory space to Survivor than me . . . has anybody had two episodes as hectic as Stephen? He loses the reward challenge, doesn't get a break from the game, breaks down, has gastrointestinal distress, breaks down some more, bails out of an immunity challenge for a shot for a better shelter, and he gets five votes against him . . . but since Jeremy plays one of his idols for him, he's saved. Then he wins a rare individual reward challenge, gets a break from the game, and he uses his advantage to spilt the difference between Abi-Maria and a vulnerable Joe . . .. but more people get spooked about his plot device, and he gets voted out. I'm betting the post-boot psychological exams are going to be thorough.

 

I feel bad for Stephen. It's a mix of pity and empathy for the guy who lost big to the person who gave Day 39 to Russell in S20. At the very least, I give him props for not tapping out of the game.

[BigRedCheese]

 

"Remarkably" is really pushing it.

 

It's all subjective of course, but it's not pushing it for me, Julie Berry is one of my top five most beautiful women ever on Survivor.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Okay fine, I pick Colleen, Brenda, Kat, Parvati, and ....?    Have to look into that deeper.

And Greg Buis, James Clement, Ozzy Lusth, Woo Hwang and Nick Brown...... and (Ryan Opray) ... Brady from Vanuatu...  I know Malcolm's hot but maybe his cold personality didn't make me crave him as much.

 

John and Jaclyn from SJDS were both so pretty.

And Adam from Cook Islands looks like Josh Holloway..... Oh man..... 

Edited November 26, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[BigRedCheese]

Colleen would definitely be my top pick for cutest!

[Ms Blue Jay]

It's not like I'm proud of it, but I remember being super enamoured with Elisabeth Hasselbeck on Season 2 before we all figured out the person she really is.

[BigRedCheese]

Elisabeth was adorable in season 2! 

[LadyChatts]

Okay fine, I pick Colleen, Brenda, Kat, Parvati, and ....?    Have to look into that deeper.

And Greg Buis, James Clement, Ozzy Lusth, Woo Hwang and Nick Brown...... and (Ryan Opray) ... Brady from Vanuatu...  I know Malcolm's hot but maybe his cold personality didn't make me crave him as much.

 

John and Jaclyn from SJDS were both so pretty.

And Adam from Cook Islands looks like Josh Holloway..... Oh man..... 

 

Brady!  I have to say my first ever Survivor crush was Silas from the Africa season.  I loved CI Ozzy more than Micronesia and SP Ozzy.  My taste in Survivor men varies.  Usually I go for the big strong strapping alpha males like Joe, Jeremy, Bobby Jon, etc, but I love the likes of the good ol'farm boys, like Brandon from Guatemala

[Ms Blue Jay]

CI Ozzy .......  I was obsessed.  Dangerously.  But yeah, that crush really dissipated after further seasons.  When you say good ol farm boy I think of Bobby Jon and Jeremiah from Cagayan.

[henripootel]

people don't get idols because the producers love them. The producers love them because they get idols.

I don't think it's that simple.  I mean in one sense it's obviously correct - people with idols are generally worth pointing the camera at cuz something interesting is likely to happen.  But there have been a number of extremely curious HII acquisitions, several of which concerned Russell.  Not least of these was when JD (correct me if I'm misremembering here) passed Russell and idol during a challenge when he didn't know Russell from Adam, and it was (apparently) against the rules for JD to do such a thing because Russell was on another team.  I mean Russell may be especially good at finding lost things or particularly energetic at looking, but come on.  

 

I think that the last part of the above statement is correct but it in no way implies the first part is too.  There's also no reason at all to think it can't go both ways, and I'm pretty convinced it does.  Not every HII nor every single time, but who says they all have to be shenanigans for any of them to be?

 

I've a pet theory that a lot of this nonsense got ramped up when they started inviting people back.  My reasoning is that this and other curious things are part and parcel with pretending that being good at Survivor the TV Show is exactly the same as being good at Survivor the Game.  It isn't, and Russell seems to be a particularly good example of this.

Edited December 5, 2015 by henripootel

[KimberStormer]

Vicky8675309, on 07 Dec 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:Vicky8675309, on 07 Dec 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:Vicky8675309, on 07 Dec 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Dawn didn't bully Corrine. Corrine came to Dawn wanting Dawn to switch to be #5 or 6 of a 5 or 6 person alliance). Corrine approached Dawn and why wouldn't Dawn tell her alliance about it since she is in a better spot with her own alliance and then they could thwart the flipping of the bottom (Malcolm, Reynold, Eddie, Corrine). Plus Corrine did the same with Sherri and both Sherri and Dawn told on Corrine. When watching it I was disappointed since I didn't like Phillip and I like watching the bottom flip however I think Dawn and Sherri made the right call for their game.

 

I'll trust you, since I wouldn't rewatch Caramoan for ready money.  My memory was that at the merge Dawn was in FULL ON FREAKOUT MODE THAT OMG I AM GOING HOME AREN'T I JUST TELL ME. JUST TELL ME IF I'M GOING HOME. I KNOW I'M GOING HOME BUT JUST TELL ME (which, it seems, was pretty much her every day mode, even though she was never in any danger at all) and Corrine, exhausted by this constant whining, seeking to calm her down so she didn't do anything dumb, and fooled into thinking Dawn was not playing but just panicking, told her "look Dawn don't worry you're not going home we're gonna get out Phillip soon, not you."  I definitely think it was the right move for Dawn to put the kibosh on this.  This approach, of using her own insecurities and emotions as a tool to get people to dismiss and trust her and to get information, which her rational brain then used to vote people out, is as far as I can remember unique to Dawn, and as I say brilliant, though like Russell's game, unlikely to net the win.

 

I respect Dawn as a player but like Terry in Panama she triggers something visceral in me and I can't stand her.  A lot of people react to Russell Hantz in a way that I find bafflingly personal but since watching Caramoan I understand it better.  Russell's never bothered me at all really, and I think it's because I've never met a Russell in my life.  But I've met Dawns, who have hurt me.  It's hard for me to look at her objectively.

Edited December 7, 2015 by KimberStormer

[Vicky8675309]

agree

I don't know if Dawn was bright enough to intentionally use her emotional vampirism as part of her strategy, not that it was a good strategy for winning but it did help get her to the end. I understand about reacting viscerally to some players. I can also see how someone like Dawn is annoying and I avoid people like her IRL. It sounds like the editing was fairly kind to Dawn in that it showed her crying but it didn't really show her using Corrine. It showed a "normal Dawn" and Corrine just out of the blue talking to her about her & Malcolm's plan to flip everything and target Phillip. Then to the camera she said last time she flipped and lost so this time she wasn't going to flip and I remember thinking that was faulty logic and basically came to the conclusion she was stupid if that was the only fact she looked at. I didn't like Dawn and I'm not defending her. I do think she tried to emotionally manipulate people (intentionally) like Cochran (but I don't think it worked) but I think most of the emotional manipulation (unintentional) didn't work.

In other words, to intentionally emotionally manipulate another person in the game seems like it could be intelligent depending on how it is done and other factors. Whereas to unintentionally manipulate someone in the game seems lucky or unlucky but not intelligent. By emotionally manipulate, I am not talking about people skills or aura or presence (not like how Kim or Denise or Jeremy have good "people skills" since they have a calming presence or are charismatic or something they give off in speech and/or actions that cause people to intrinsically (?) like them (something innately appealing about them).

Edited December 7, 2015 by Vicky8675309

[Oholibamah]

I'll trust you, since you I wouldn't rewatch Caramoan for ready money. My memory was that at the merge Dawn was in FULL ON FREAKOUT MODE THAT OMG I AM GOING HOME AREN'T I JUST TELL ME. JUST TELL ME IF I'M GOING HOME. I KNOW I'M GOING HOME BUT JUST TELL ME (which, it seems, was pretty much her every day mode, even though she was never in any danger at all) and Corrine, exhausted by this constant whining, seeking to calm her down so she didn't do anything dumb, and fooled into thinking Dawn was not playing but just panicking, told her "look Dawn don't worry you're not going home we're gonna get out Phillip soon, not you." I definitely think it was the right move for Dawn to put the kibosh on this. This approach, of using her own insecurities and emotions as a tool to get people to dismiss and trust her and to get information, which her rational brain then used to vote people out, is as far as I can remember unique to Dawn, and as I say brilliant, though like Russell's game, unlikely to net the win.

I respect Dawn as a player but like Terry in Panama she triggers something visceral in me and I can't stand her. A lot of people react to Russell Hantz in a way that I find bafflingly personal but since watching Caramoan I understand it better. Russell's never bothered me at all really, and I think it's because I've never met a Russell in my life. But I've met Dawns, who have hurt me. It's hard for me to look at her objectively.

I have a similar visceral reaction to Dawn, to the point where the Brenda betrayal has always seemed grossly beyond the game to me. I tend to have a pretty staunch "all is fair in Survivor" mindset, but that episode was downright disturbing to watch.

Maybe it makes me an awful person, but I loved Teethgate. It was delicious schadenfreude.

Not to mention, Brenda wasn't actually demanding that Dawn take out her teeth. She wanted her to finally, once and for all, decide if she was playing the game (emotional manipulation) or was truly upset by the situation. Dawn had been trying to have her cake for 39 days, and frankly, she fully deserved to be called on her shit.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Oholibamah

[Vicky8675309]

I have a similar visceral reaction to Dawn, to the point where the Brenda betrayal has always seemed grossly beyond the game to me. I tend to have a pretty staunch "all is fair in Survivor" mindset, but that episode was downright disturbing to watch.

Maybe it makes me an awful person, but I loved Teethgate. It was delicious schadenfreude.

Not to mention, Brenda wasn't actually demanding that Dawn take out her teeth. She wanted her to finally, once and for all, decide if she was playing the game (emotional manipulation) or was truly upset by the situation. Dawn had been trying to have her cake for 39 days, and frankly, she fully deserved to be called on her shit.

 

You are not an awful person and I think many of us loved Teethgate. I thought it was particularly powerful in that Dawn who tries to play sweet and innocent (didn't own her sh*t) was lying her teeth off (lol) about saying she wouldn't have really quit the game if Brenda hadn't found her teeth. Bullsh*t! Dawn was totally going to quit when she didn't think she would get her teeth back. I was shocked that she lied about it rather then saying "Sorry Brenda, you are right, you saved my game and I screwed you. It's for a million dollars. Sorry". Even at the FTC after she lied to Brenda and said she would have stayed in the game she still didn't show her mouth until Brenda pushed for it at least 3 times and Dawn finally realized that Brenda was not going to let her talk her way out of it. It's the last juror at the very end of the FTC and so when push came to shove, she had to show her mouth without teeth or say "I've been lying all night long".

 

I'm probably awful because I was so happy that Brenda still didn't vote for her and that no one voted for Dawn. HaHa, she showed her mouth (not a big deal imo) and it was too late in that she was shown to be the liar she was. No problem with lying in the game but own it in the FTC! Karma;-)

 

I didn't like the fake apology after getting criticized by the public (social media) and the fake acceptance. I wasn't thrilled with jeff putting them on the spot for the fake apology/forgiveness.

[Miss Scarlet]

I've heard a few different Survivors say that the game is a microcosm of real life. This is an interesting idea and I wanted to get posters' opinions on it. What do you guys think of this? To what extent do you think it's true/untrue?

[Guest]

I hear that one from Jeff in interviews all the time.  It's a good marketing spiel.  But I do think the game is a bit like the hero's journey mythos Joseph Campbell writes about.  We all love to see a journey full of strife that ends in glory.  In that way, it's kind of a metaphor for life.  

 

But most wouldn't watch if it wasn't full of beautiful people in beautiful locales, myself included.  So in a way it's just mindless eye candy.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

The thing is about Teethgate is that I loved Brenda so much before it (in her first season), and then after that I just couldn't look at her in the same way.  I guess I was a bit traumatized by it.  I never liked Dawn so that didn't affect my opinion of her.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[LanceM]

Speaking of Brenda I got a Brookstone catalog in the mail today and I open it up who do I see modeling a neck massager? Brenda.

[BigRedCheese]

 

But most wouldn't watch if it wasn't full of beautiful people in beautiful locales

 

Reality shows are chock full of that, but Survivor is pretty much the only one I watch (I watch Big Brother, but just enough to keep up with it so I can follow the discussion here, that's more entertaining than the show). I don't think it's really deep or anything, but there's something about it that goes beyond eye candy, for me at least.

[Quilt Fairy]

Just a heads up, guys.  Thanks to our wonderful mods, we now have a separate thread for each season from 1-27 in the Past Seasons sub-forum.

[Nashville]

Speaking of Brenda I got a Brookstone catalog in the mail today and I open it up who do I see modeling a neck massager? Brenda.

 

That's just begging for a good dirty punch line.

[phlebas]

After Abi finally got voted out, I decided to rewatch Survivor: Nicaragua to try to get some perspective on how she stacks up compared to other villains -- specifically, against two people I remember being surprisingly awful people:  NaOnka and Shannon.

 

I've made it past the point where both of them left the game.  And I think my memories of those two were worse than they came off the second time around.

 

I remember Shannon as being this moronic, homophobic douchebro.  And I still think that, but now he seems more ignorant than vile. In my memory, he was this poster boy for anti-LGBT bigotry that would have happily snapped Sash in half given the chance. Second time around, he strikes me more as a clueless manchild with no filter.  

 

NaOnka is much more complex. I remember her as being cruel and hateful, and I still think that. But she's also someone acting on impulse and cannot admit she did anything wrong. Pushing over Kelly B I think was an accident, but NaOnka was unable to back off or apologize. She had this amazing sense of entitlement and a severe misread of her social game.  I find her more pathetic and pitiable now.

 

 

By comparison, I don't feel Abi measures up, awful-wise. Abi is an emotional player who is quick to anger and vindictive.  But I don't think she's cruel or hateful. I think with Abi there is a mix of a communication/culture barrier and her decision to play a character. (NaOnka implies she did the same, but I don't know if I believe her.)

 

Interesting experiment.

[Lantern7]

So . . . what is the legacy of S31? I think it lived up to the hype for the most part, as long as you sweep stuff like the tribal twists under the rug. If you watch up close without the benefit of editing, I reckon even Kimmi or Keith would've had a shot. If I had to come up with a title for the season in general, it would be "Bloc Party." It should be interesting to see if upcoming casts incorporate that into their gameplay.

 

ETA: Did Jeremy clean up the stain of New Englanders left by Rodney and Dan? I totally forgot that he hailed from Massachusetts until I looked back in the S31 voting thread.

[KimberStormer]

That accent didn't give it away??? 

[LadyChatts]

S31 would be in my top 10.  Not my all time favorite, but a great season, and I think it helped that it followed two very weak seasons (for me anyway, Survivor hasn't had a ton of strong, memorable seasons in the post HvsV era).  But definitely worth of the hype it received, even if I did think the whole voting bloc and 'evolution' was much ado about nothing.  My biggest wish for the next fan voted season is more old schoolers, less contestants who were just on in the last 3 seasons.  The finale 5 was exactly that.  People from S28 & 29.  

 

I would be curious if they would consider doing the amount of tribe swaps in a normal season, because I think that might be one thing that did help people stay on their toes.  Going forward, I am curious how the idols will play out.  Now that people know they are hidden at challenges, will it be a lot more risky to try and grab them?  Will people purposely lose a challenge if it means getting an idol?  That is one thing I am very anxious to see play out.  Also, I am hopeful that the idols stay different (and maybe some look more homemade than professional) and someone can successfully play that card at TC.  Of course it would probably just result in a split vote, but I'd love to see a scenario like the 3 Amigos, only with fake idols, and people to be duped.  Since S32 filmed before S31, we won't really see the effects of this season until next fall.  Probst made mention in an interview about this "evolution" to the game that he felt would change it going forward, but I'm skeptical.  What works in a season with returnees might not translate to a season of newbies.  Last season nobody wanted to make moves or jump ship on alliances after the merge.  Also, the advantage.  Will someone finally succeed in getting it to work?  Or, since it puts a target on people's back, will castaways of the future not risk having it.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm trying to rewatch HvV because everyone here seems to love it and I never much cared for it.... (not in my top 10 - I have entered Season 31 into my Top 10 though.)

 

Stephenie is such an attractive looking person.  Her personality seems very cold/stoic (that's how I mostly saw Malcolm too) so those people never end up in my favourite personalities.  But I love the way she looks; she looks like she should be in movies.  Candice is also incredibly super duper beautiful.  The shot of Courtney in the HvV opening looks (ironically) angelic.

 

For me, Candice is so obviously a villain, not a hero (her and Penner ditching the Aitu 4 in Cook Islands).    And isn't Boston Rob a hero?  He seems to be a hero of Probst's and the show, that's for damn sure.   One of the most intelligent and charismatic players who gets a lot of screentime and is seen as a loyal family man.  Is it because he betrayed Lex and everyone for Amber?   (Only now remembering that I never saw Marquesas.)

 

Also I'm surprised to see Sugar a hero.  I guess she is?  (I remember her being a villain on Gilmore Girls, LOL!)  Other than that I guess people are placed on the correct tribes.  Though Amanda is another question mark.  Hero and Villain are difficult boxes to place humans in anyway.  

 

Regarding Seasons 28/31, I guess Tony would be a villain; I would love it if he came back.  The Witches Coven was obviously painted as villainous versus the so-called heroes I guess - Jeremy, Spencer, Tasha, maybe even Stephen.  Kimmie would be a villain I guess.  Keith and Joe are obvious heroes.   I know people think Woo made really stupid movies i.e. taking Tony to the end, but he's akin to James Clement I think.  Probst said that children love Woo and I say Woo is a hero - too "innocent" to be a villain, diplomatically speaking.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[LadyChatts]

Some people on Sucks were speculating that, with this cast, they were setting up either another HvsV or BvsW seasons.  I could see it going either way.  Some returnee seasons are successful, while others completely bomb out.  But both HvsV and the first BvsW seemed popular enough.  I know they said their reasoning for putting Candice on the Heroes tribe was something along the lines of yeah, she mutinied (and paid for it) but there was something noble about going where the game would get her the furthest, looking out for herself, and she owned up to it.  Sugar was America's Sweetheart, I guess, coming off a horrible, nasty season like Gabon.  I like she was more villain but in a 'love to root for' type of way.  Candice and I think Sandra were surprised by their tribe designations.  I look at this current season of S31 and ask, if they did a HvsV season with solely this cast, where would they put everyone?  Some people don't fit either way.

[Guest]

I feel like Sugar got a bit of a victim/underdog edit.  She got sent to Exile so many times, and bullied by the cool kids and Randy (at least it was edited to look that way).  And she did some pretty amusing things in the game like double crossing asshole Ace and getting Randy out in the most humiliating way possible, playing a fake idol he thought was real.  She had just lost her father and bonded with Bob and made sure he got to the end to win because she knew she was too hated to win despite being a driving force in the game.

 

That said, her edit must've been the most generous ever, after what we saw and heard from her the next time, and read in the press and on social media.  She seems like a nutcase.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

Candice was such an annoying twerp in Cook Islands.  A lot of them were.  Parvati, Adam, and Candice.  Candice and Jonathan were swapped over to Aitu and Jeff gave everyone a chance to mutiny.  Candice did, because she wanted to be with Adam and I guess, Parvati.  They were like annoying high schoolers.  Jonathan also then mutinied, because he thought Candice was his closest ally.  In confessionals, Candice admitted she didn't like Jonathan at all.  Anyways, I do not find her the least bit heroic.  In her later seasons I liked her more, but she was very different.

 

I remember really liking how Sugar played in Gabon.  But I didn't watch all the way to the end.  Just until they got rid of Randy which was great.

 

Edited because now I'm watching the James versus Stephenie conflict as we speak.  I'm a fan of James, but yeah, he didn't make himself look too good here.  Both sides have their points and their faults in this conflict.  James lost his temper and kind of went nuts on Stephenie and it was overboard.  But I understand the crux of what he's saying - about the challenge, that is.   

 

Yes, LanceM, I do understand that.  The point of my post is whether I agreed with the producers' choices or not.  The designations are there, why not comment on them?  For example, the producers see Rupert as a hero so if Sandra beats out Rupert she's therefore a villain.  

 

I think I forget how likeable and pretty Amanda is until I see her seasons again.  Man, James kind of went off on a psychotic tangent throughout this episode.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[LanceM]

The producers just put the players wherever they want. I mean the only reason Danielle was a villain was because she voted out Probst's mancrush Terry and went to the final two with Aras.

[phlebas]

I think I forget how likeable and pretty Amanda is until I see her seasons again.  

 

Always loved Amanda.  At first it was because she was one of the most beautiful women I'd ever seen (YMMV). And she also brought the goods when it came to the game. She just had that one fatal (in Survivor) flaw where she couldn't own the moves where she had hurt people's feelings.

 

And yeah, James got grumpier each time he came on the show.  By the end, he was kind of a jerk.

[Ms Blue Jay]

The problem is that James would get stuck on a joke that he thinks is very funny - like Stephenie is the only one who remained of her tribe in Palau where everyone else  got kicked off one by one, and he didn't want that to happen to him (He even called it "romantic", LOL) or that 10 years later, super badass challenge monster Colby was like Superman in a fat suit.  And then at Tribal he would just berate that person like crazy with these "jokes" hoping to stay in the game!  What a horrible strategy.  It was so over the top mean.  

 

Heroes vs Villains is interesting because Boston Rob chooses to not believe in or use idols, like they're aliens or ghosts, and he commands the entire tribe to follow his decree that no one shalt touch them lest they be banned from his castle.  Courtney and Sandra listen, Coach listens breathlessly, and Parv is fine to go along, but of course Russell doesn't.   Again so far this season (I'm 8 episodes deep) is a fine representation of everything I love about Russell.  For his haters who say that producers plant the idols for Russell to find, here's a perfect season showing that not to be the case.  No one else on Villains looks for idols -- hell -- they're not allowed to -- and they only show the little troll doll Russell scurrying about from tree to tree, digging, thinking, hiding, and looking.  He digs for hours.  By the end when he finally finds one, he says it took him three days to find.

 

Also, he gets Tyson to vote out himself.  How could anyone not love this man?  For the critics who said Russell tries to play the same game as Samoa (because he hadn't yet known he lost, he hadn't yet known his strategies didn't work for him), let me say this.  Russell does not berate or abuse one player (that we can see).  Instead, Rob threatens HIM, and he kind of lies back and takes it , until he finally says, No YOU watch out, Rob.  Then he proceeds to (very politely) manipulate Tyson and get Tyson booted, then boots Rob next.  I do see him as a mastermind of this game (up until Final tribal).  The way he played Tyson is so incredibly beautiful.  He also easily sees through people's lies.  He's told that everyone is voting for Russell, but he plainly says "I ain't stupid.  They're voting for Parv."  I don't know how he gets all the information he does -- were Coach and Jerri feeding him information from earlier votes?  But he plays those tribals perfectly.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Skeeter22]

Russell was as blindsided as everyone else when Tyson went home. Pretty much everyone there agrees Russell had given up and decided to give his idol to Parvati so he could go out looking like a hero. He didn't convince Tyson to do anything. Tyson thought Danielle and Parvati would vote for Russell since they knew the others were splitting the vote. He was more threatened by Parvati than Russell. Tyson outsmarted himself.

[Ms Blue Jay]

There's a scene where Russell says to Tyson "I'm going to vote for Parv. I give up" and Tyson says to the camera "Russell is switching his vote to Parv and this seems like a good opportunity for me to vote for Parv too."  To me, this is Russell convincing Tyson (aka more people) to vote for Parv.  There is no way I'd believe that 1) Russell cares about looking like a hero and 2) Russell was fine with going home and didn't want to try to outsmart anyone first.   Also, why would he play his idol for Parv, and not himself, if he really had given up?  The idol gives him several choices to stay in the game -- nobody gives up with an idol.   That doesn't make sense to me.  No matter what Tyson thinks about Danielle and Parv's vote, Russell knew that everyone on his side was voting for Tyson.   How would Russell think he's going home when he knows that R + D + P are three votes for Tyson?

Edited December 22, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[fishcakes]

I don't think Russell gave up and thought he was going home, but I do think that Tyson thought so. Tyson, thinking Parvati and Danielle were voting for Russell, switched his vote to Parvati, in order to get rid of the person he thought was a bigger threat and to save Russell who he thought he could work with down the line. So Russell was surprised, but not that he stayed, only that Tyson outsmarted himself.

[Skeeter22]

We never saw Russell gloating about tricking Tyson during the game. Parvati has also said Russell gave up. If this had been his master plan, he never would have shut up about how he manipulated Tyson. Tyson was the one telling Russell to vote Parvati because he hoped to get rid of her and keep Russell in his back pocket. I think Russell wanted to go out on his own terms. He only had two weeks between Samoa and HvV, and he was probably exhausted. After Tyson voted himself off, Jerri saw an opportunity to get revenge on Rob for All Stars. I think this is what gave Russell a second wind.

I think the weirdest thing about HvV is Rob creating his own hero narrative, and the show buying into it. I don't think Rob is a spectacular survivor player, but he has mastered Survivor the show.

[LanceM]

I don't think Russell gave up and thought he was going home, but I do think that Tyson thought so. Tyson, thinking Parvati and Danielle were voting for Russell, switched his vote to Parvati, in order to get rid of the person he thought was a bigger threat and to save Russell who he thought he could work with down the line. So Russell was surprised, but not that he stayed, only that Tyson outsmarted himself.

In fact there was a secret scene between Parvati and Tyson where she implies just that.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't think Russell gave up and thought he was going home, but I do think that Tyson thought so. Tyson, thinking Parvati and Danielle were voting for Russell, switched his vote to Parvati, in order to get rid of the person he thought was a bigger threat and to save Russell who he thought he could work with down the line. So Russell was surprised, but not that he stayed, only that Tyson outsmarted himself.

 

Not sure where or how I disagree with any of this.

 

I will disagree, however, that Russell was "probably exhausted" and wanted to go home.  After watching Samoa I don't know how anyone could think that about Russell.  He has a lot of experience with idol playing and he went in with a plan and conscious thought.   If Russell votes for Tyson and his alliance also does, why would they not want the end result to be Tyson going home.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[BigRedCheese]

 

I will disagree, however, that Russell was "probably exhausted" and wanted to go home.  After watching Samoa I don't know how anyone could think that about Russell.

 

People might think it because he played Samoa and HvV back to back, he only had a couple of weeks between them. Personally, I doubt he wanted to go home, but no doubt he was exhausted.

[phlebas]

the only time in three seasons Russell ever seemed like he WASN'T running on nuclear-powered manic energy was at the Samoa reunion when he didn't win.  He was so sure he had beaten his Dumb-Ass Girl .

[BK1978]

I often wondered why it is called the Tyler Perry Idol.  I mean the Idol rules for his Idol and the rules for the one that Yul won are the exact same.  Why call it the Tyler Perry Idol when he did not really create it? 

[Mrs. P.]

I often wondered why it is called the Tyler Perry Idol. I mean the Idol rules for his Idol and the rules for the one that Yul won are the exact same. Why call it the Tyler Perry Idol when he did not really create it?

It is my understanding that Tyler Perry contacted Probst and suggested the show change the play of the idol to make it stronger. I don't know if he realized that the Cook Islands idol worked that way previously. In any event, Probst thought it was a great idea and introduced it to the show. It came to be known as the Tyler Perry idol.

[Jobiska]

This could just be my projecting, because it's been a while, but I thought a major part of Candice's "hero" designation was how she suffered but powered through a horrible rainy Exile Island stint.  That was actually the only time I had admiration for her on her first season.  

[BigRedCheese]

I think it was because she found true love with Billy Garcia, their love story was one for the ages.

[NutMeg]

I'm trying to rewatch HvV because everyone here seems to love it and I never much cared for it.... (not in my top 10 - I have entered Season 31 into my Top 10 though.)

 

Stephenie is such an attractive looking person.  Her personality seems very cold/stoic (that's how I mostly saw Malcolm too) so those people never end up in my favourite personalities.  But I love the way she looks; she looks like she should be in movies.  Candice is also incredibly super duper beautiful.  The shot of Courtney in the HvV opening looks (ironically) angelic.

 

For me, Candice is so obviously a villain, not a hero (her and Penner ditching the Aitu 4 in Cook Islands).    And isn't Boston Rob a hero?  He seems to be a hero of Probst's and the show, that's for damn sure.   One of the most intelligent and charismatic players who gets a lot of screentime and is seen as a loyal family man.  Is it because he betrayed Lex and everyone for Amber?   (Only now remembering that I never saw Marquesas.)

 

Also I'm surprised to see Sugar a hero.  I guess she is?  (I remember her being a villain on Gilmore Girls, LOL!)  Other than that I guess people are placed on the correct tribes.  Though Amanda is another question mark.  Hero and Villain are difficult boxes to place humans in anyway.  

 

Regarding Seasons 28/31, I guess Tony would be a villain; I would love it if he came back.  The Witches Coven was obviously painted as villainous versus the so-called heroes I guess - Jeremy, Spencer, Tasha, maybe even Stephen.  Kimmie would be a villain I guess.  Keith and Joe are obvious heroes.   I know people think Woo made really stupid movies i.e. taking Tony to the end, but he's akin to James Clement I think.  Probst said that children love Woo and I say Woo is a hero - too "innocent" to be a villain, diplomatically speaking.

Yeah, the designation of either hero or villain was pretty random. But still, the Villain tribe members were so good that it was a joy to watch them [eat each other out until the last TC], while the so called heroes were mostly dull and/or bad at the game.

[choclatechip45]

For me I think some time has to pass too see someone play a third time. I enjoyed Tina during Blood vs water. I enjoyed the players who played in All-Stars during Heroes vs Villains. I did think it was too soon to see James and Amanda again during the same season.

 

 

For me, Candice is so obviously a villain, not a hero (her and Penner ditching the Aitu 4 in Cook Islands).    And isn't Boston Rob a hero?  He seems to be a hero of Probst's and the show, that's for damn sure.   One of the most intelligent and charismatic players who gets a lot of screentime and is seen as a loyal family man.  Is it because he betrayed Lex and everyone for Amber?   (Only now remembering that I never saw Marquesas.)

 

Also I'm surprised to see Sugar a hero.  I guess she is?  (I remember her being a villain on Gilmore Girls, LOL!)  Other than that I guess people are placed on the correct tribes.  Though Amanda is another question mark.  Hero and Villain are difficult boxes to place humans in anyway.

Probst during his cast assessment said Candice was a hero for the mutiny and Sugar was a hero for wanting the "good people" to win I disagree with both. I like Boston Rob, but he will always be a villain for some of the stuff he said in Marquesas plus he played a cutthroat game in All-Stars. I think Amanda is too boring to be a Villain. Plus I'm sure they didn't want her on the same tribe with Courtney/Parvati (even though she had a falling out with the latter). 

Edited December 29, 2015 by choclatechip45

[loki567]

I imagine that the producers had similar fears to the players, that there were too many personal and game connections between the female players and there was a risk of a big female alliance would end up dominating one of the tribes. So they split things up as evenly as possible. Although I got to admit that I'd love to see Boston Rob's reaction to being on a tribe with Cirie/Amanda/Parvati/Courtney/Danielle. He probably would had a stroke. 

[Rick Kitchen]

Mike Skupin has had his probation revoked after the judge said that he violated his probation by posting on Facebook.  He is charged with multiple counts of possession of child pornography and running a Ponzi scheme.

 

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2016/04/08/survivor-star-micheal-skupin-jailed/82789116/

[azshadowwalker]

Ugh. Now, there we have an actual villain.