20/20

[GiandujaPie]

22 hours ago, TVbitch said:

The killer was a pretty convincing guy ...until he decided to come up with that ridiculous story about how he just happened to have consenual sex with the victim immediately before she was murdered (by someone else!). Can't believe the wife still stands by him after that. Thank goodness for genetic genealogy justice!

I agree. If he had had consensual sex with one of the girls right before they were murdered, why wouldn't he have just said so when they first arrested him and brought him in? When those girls were found murdered, why wouldn't he have come forward then to say that he had seen them that night? Other witnesses came forward - oh yeah, they had nothing to do with it and nothing to hide! 

And his story that the sex was consensual was ridiculous. So JB makes plans to go to a party with her friend, gets lost, asks for directions from another teenager and her mom and then decides to also call some random guy she met while working at JCPenney and ask him to come over so they could hook up while her friend waited in the car? 

And I agree, after he confessed to the "infidelity", why would his wife continue to back him? 

[UsernameFatigue]

On 5/13/2024 at 7:36 AM, GiandujaPie said:

 

And I agree, after he confessed to the "infidelity", why would his wife continue to back him? 

He claimed to have slept with a lot of women (or in this case a teenager) in the interrogation and again when in prison to the correspondent. I wonder if he did as well in court in front of his family? I love his justification that he was "in transition". But still living with the woman who would become his wife. Definitely a headscratcher why she is so blindly backing him. 

I always wonder when these monsters go on to have families of their own, particularly girls, if they hope that their daughter(s) do not have the unfortunate horror of running into someone like him. I found the footage of him dancing with his daughter, who would have been pretty much the same age as the girl he raped and murdered along with her friend, chilling. 

I can't remember if they said if his kids are standing by him too?

[GiandujaPie]

Fabio the celebrity hairdresser. I had never heard of him before this episode but I found this to be pretty interesting. The salaciousness of his wife hooking up with a former porn star was quite the twist and I don't believe for a second that she wasn't complicit in it somehow. How did he know to grab the hard drive where the security camera footage was stored? And I bet that she gave him the idea to dress up as the Knock Knock Burglars. What I found apalling was that she allowed her daughter to be the one to find her father dead, and in such a gruesome state. 

[Angeltoes]

I couldn't get over the fact that she had a gathering after the funeral at the same house where he was murdered.  Let's have sandwiches and punch just ten feet from where he died.  That says she wasn't emotionally attached to him.

[TVbitch]

^Not to mention she invited her lover to the gathering! 

They didn't say if she had some kind of prenup that would make divorcing him less attractive than going for the insurance. 

[ljenkins782]

4 hours ago, GiandujaPie said:

Fabio the celebrity hairdresser. I had never heard of him before this episode but I found this to be pretty interesting. The salaciousness of his wife hooking up with a former porn star was quite the twist and I don't believe for a second that she wasn't complicit in it somehow. How did he know to grab the hard drive where the security camera footage was stored? And I bet that she gave him the idea to dress up as the Knock Knock Burglars. What I found apalling was that she allowed her daughter to be the one to find her father dead, and in such a gruesome state. 

Yeah, I also find it hard to believe she had nothing to do with it, between the camera footage to the meticulous timing, it seems impossible that she was uninvolved. I'm curious what made the guy decide to let her get away with it and take the fall entirely. 

[bunnyface]

I just happened to see the beginning of this program and got sucked in.  I had never heard of Fabio before and had no idea there were competitive hairstyling events.  That's wild to me.  Even though the boyfriend fell on his sword and took blame for the whole thing, they said her trial was about to start so they still think/know she was involved despite what he said.  I can understand the son wanting his father's watch but I don't believe I could ever wear it knowing he was wearing it when he was killed.  That would freak me out.

[Jaded]

The only Fabio I've ever known of....

[bunnyface]

4 minutes ago, Jaded said:

The only Fabio I've ever known of....

Lots of people only have that Fabio.  They even interviewed him and he said when the murder happened, people were calling him and he's like "no, not me, I just answered the phone..."

[amarante]

5 hours ago, bunnyface said:

I just happened to see the beginning of this program and got sucked in.  I had never heard of Fabio before and had no idea there were competitive hairstyling events.  That's wild to me.  Even though the boyfriend fell on his sword and took blame for the whole thing, they said her trial was about to start so they still think/know she was involved despite what he said.  I can understand the son wanting his father's watch but I don't believe I could ever wear it knowing he was wearing it when he was killed.  That would freak me out.

I attended a corporate meeting about a decade ago in Chicago. Our rooms were at one of those massive types of hotels with lots of exhibit rooms for conferences.

There was a hair dresser contest occurring at the same time - this was for POC and so the styles were just amazing. I had literally never seen these kinds of hair styles outside the pages of magazines - just fantastic. 

Hanging out at the bar was a lot of fun in terms of viewing the models chilling out at the end of the day. 

[GiandujaPie]

Re: A Deadly Scream

Not sure what to make of this one. The entire case seemed shady from the get-go. I don't think the brother had anything to do with it but seems weird that he saw this pretty much happen. The investigation seemed botched, prosecution did not prove anything other than that the defendant was an idiot. Their "star witness" was anything but credible and I couldn't believe it when they showed a clip of the judge saying that he was! 

Most of the interviews seemed to be from 2017. So the only thing that has changed is that the star witness basically recanted and said he lied and that the convicted guy has a psychiatrist who is convinced he didn't do it. 

[TVbitch]

Same. The whole fiasco just made me sad for that poor girl. 

[UsernameFatigue]

5 hours ago, GiandujaPie said:

Re: A Deadly Scream

Not sure what to make of this one. The entire case seemed shady from the get-go. I don't think the brother had anything to do with it but seems weird that he saw this pretty much happen. The investigation seemed botched, prosecution did not prove anything other than that the defendant was an idiot. Their "star witness" was anything but credible and I couldn't believe it when they showed a clip of the judge saying that he was! 

Most of the interviews seemed to be from 2017. So the only thing that has changed is that the star witness basically recanted and said he lied and that the convicted guy has a psychiatrist who is convinced he didn't do it. 

This one was a head scratcher for sure. I also shook my head when the judge said how credible the witness was. Sheesh. Like you, I didn't think he was credible at all, and am not surprised that he said he was coached. 

What made no sense to me was that none of the defendants were the body type or height that the brother said the abductor was. Though the creepy older guy certainly was. In addition, why would only one guy abduct her if three others were involved? 

The whole case was a mess, and very hard to follow. The poor girl deserved justice, but I am not convinced she got it. 

Edited June 4 by UsernameFatigue

[nora1992]

Having only read about the Karen Read trial, I thought there was a lot of reasonable doubt in the case.  Having watched Friday’s episode and listening to her, she’s lucky her lawyer confused some jurors.

I sympathize with defendants often, but not now: it was the showing-her-father-the-cracked-tail light-after-the-suicide-watch-release-in-the-middle-of-a-blizzard explanation that did it.  Of everything going on, checking the car is strange.

[pdlinda]

4 hours ago, nora1992 said:

Having only read about the Karen Read trial, I thought there was a lot of reasonable doubt in the case

I, also, was only vaguely familiar with this case.  I can't see how the State could possibly have gotten a murder conviction against Karen.  I also do not believe there will EVER be clarity on exactly how John was murdered and by whom.  That's because there was so much alcohol ingested by all the participants involved.

The one thing I wanted to know was who was financing all the hoards of "supporters" gathered outside the courtroom and, it seems, throughout the U.S. and even abroad.  I noticed that their signs were professionally made, they were wearing t-shirts with similar messages, someone had to transport at least some of them, there were obviously some "leader" involved and, overall, there must have been some sort of "media consultant" involved in trying to "taint" the jury pool.

Also, her defense atty, Alan Jackson, must have cost her family a LOT of $$$ (maybe near $1 million)...I read that she comes from a very wealthy family so I guess that how the case was bankrolled.

I think that instead of wasting time and $$$ on a 2nd trial, the State should call John's family in and discuss the reality of where the case stands.  With the State's damaged witnesses (there were a few) and a botched police investigation coupled with the fact that Karen's supporters are likely to grow, it might be better to DISMISS THE CASE WITHOUT PREJUDICE. That would mean that it could be filed again in the future if new facts and info were collected.  In the meantime, it would avoid a 2nd trial at this time.

Also, the O'Keefe family has filed a civil "wrongful death" lawsuit and that will go forward for monetary damages.  I think that case will allow John's family to gain some "closure" for responsibility if they win it.  Of course, Karen's family will have to "foot the bill", again, for a very high-priced lawyer to handle that trial.

Karen looks so frail and gaunt, it is hard to believe that, regardless of whether she's ever convicted in criminal court, her life will ever return to any type of "normalcy".  I believe she will always be seen a guilty of killing John by many as long as she lives.  I think that, under the circumstances, that's the best resolution to this troublesome case.

 

[AheadofStraight]

I have a friend who followed the trial and attended. She made her own shirts with a cricut. She is a big-time follower of "Turtle Boy", who is the one who drummed up the support. (I don't know much about him other than he is an online presence.)

[amarante]

On 9/9/2024 at 2:09 PM, pdlinda said:

I, also, was only vaguely familiar with this case.  I can't see how the State could possibly have gotten a murder conviction against Karen.  I also do not believe there will EVER be clarity on exactly how John was murdered and by whom.  That's because there was so much alcohol ingested by all the participants involved.

The one thing I wanted to know was who was financing all the hoards of "supporters" gathered outside the courtroom and, it seems, throughout the U.S. and even abroad.  I noticed that their signs were professionally made, they were wearing t-shirts with similar messages, someone had to transport at least some of them, there were obviously some "leader" involved and, overall, there must have been some sort of "media consultant" involved in trying to "taint" the jury pool.

Also, her defense atty, Alan Jackson, must have cost her family a LOT of $$$ (maybe near $1 million)...I read that she comes from a very wealthy family so I guess that how the case was bankrolled.

I think that instead of wasting time and $$$ on a 2nd trial, the State should call John's family in and discuss the reality of where the case stands.  With the State's damaged witnesses (there were a few) and a botched police investigation coupled with the fact that Karen's supporters are likely to grow, it might be better to DISMISS THE CASE WITHOUT PREJUDICE. That would mean that it could be filed again in the future if new facts and info were collected.  In the meantime, it would avoid a 2nd trial at this time.

Also, the O'Keefe family has filed a civil "wrongful death" lawsuit and that will go forward for monetary damages.  I think that case will allow John's family to gain some "closure" for responsibility if they win it.  Of course, Karen's family will have to "foot the bill", again, for a very high-priced lawyer to handle that trial.

Karen looks so frail and gaunt, it is hard to believe that, regardless of whether she's ever convicted in criminal court, her life will ever return to any type of "normalcy".  I believe she will always be seen a guilty of killing John by many as long as she lives.  I think that, under the circumstances, that's the best resolution to this troublesome case.

 

As I recall, there was the broken light which matched what appeared to be the scene of the accident - and the damage to her car.

I think she did run him over but I don't think it was intentional and so I don't think murder was the appropriate charge

What would be best for everyone is to negotiate some kind of negligent homicide/manslaughter with a minimal sentence.

This would be extremely helpful to his family since it could be used as dispositive evidence in the civil litigation and that could also be settled 

[nora1992]

The Black Swan: once again, this is a case where I don’t sympathize with the defendant.  The claim that he killed his first wife went too far.  After that, everything she said was even more questionable.  

[LakeGal]

TONIGHT

Cold Blooded
Season 47, Episode 1 • Premiere

A secret romance in a remote Alaskan town leads to murder; police body camera footage reveals clues for a multi-state hunt for the killer.

[Annber03]

Jordan sure sucked at knowng how to cover his tracks, didn't he? I'm not sure which part amused me more, him slipping up and mentioning the name he goes by on the 911 call, or telling the officer that he and Garcia went to Wal-Mart together, and yet on the surveillance videos...not a single sign of Garcia anywhere. 

I feel bad for his fiancee. Most people who discover their significant other is cheating on them, they find that out via a text on said partner's phone, or a receipt for some hotel, or some item in their car or home that clearly doesn't belong to them, or things of that sort. 

But no, she has to find out via an entire cavalcade of cops showing up at her door. 

I also feel bad for Garcia. On the one hand, I can understand him being more private about his life in general because some people are just naturally private about their personal lives, and when you live in such a small town like this, yeah, of course you'll guard your privacy even more as a result, because it can be a little unnerving to have everyone in town knowing everything about you like that. And, honestly, it's kind of amazing that for such a small town, he was able to keep his life secret for as long as he did. 

But on the other hand, given the reason why he wouldn't have felt comfortable telling his family and friends about his relationship with Jordan...it's also just really sad. I appreciate that his brother seemed very empathetic to that particular dificulty, as did his friend Dawn. Maybe if Garcia had been more comfortable talking to them about Jordan, they might've been able to help him see a ltitle sooner that Jordan's intentions weren't good. 

Or maybe not. But still, it would've been nice if he'd had someone to turn to. 

Anywho, glad the case was resolved as it was. Amazing how easily he managed to skate by before all of this. 

Also, that area of Alaska is super pretty. 

[LakeGal]

We guessed Jordan was the killer very early.  It seemed odd that a friend in Seattle would have keys to his house.  Then he was the only one that stated Garcia was suicidal.  But when he showed up at the house in Garcia's truck from the airport it was really strange.  Why would he have the truck keys and know it was parked at the airport?  It just seemed too obvious that he would then be the secret lover.  We watched the rest and just kept laughing at how stupid Jordan was.  He was an aspiring stripper.  Who aspires to be that?

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, LakeGal said:

He was an aspiring stripper.  Who aspires to be that?

I liked the bit when they showed a clip from some adult film he was in. It ooked like the most stereotypical porn premise ever :p. 

And that bit when one of his...girlfriends, was it, was asked what he looked like with his shirt off. That was weird. 

[Arkay]

On 9/21/2024 at 6:15 AM, LakeGal said:

We guessed Jordan was the killer very early.  It seemed odd that a friend in Seattle would have keys to his house.  Then he was the only one that stated Garcia was suicidal.  But when he showed up at the house in Garcia's truck from the airport it was really strange.  Why would he have the truck keys and know it was parked at the airport?  It just seemed too obvious that he would then be the secret lover.  We watched the rest and just kept laughing at how stupid Jordan was.  He was an aspiring stripper.  Who aspires to be that?

Same.

It was just TOO obvious.

The truck was at the airport but Garcia was dead on his couch. So it seems highly unlikely that he left the truck  at the airport to then what, walk home?

That made me know he didn’t kill himself. If he got a ride home from leaving his truck at the airport then someone would have told that to the police.

Especially when the police said his house had not been broken into, and here comes a young guy from another state with Garcia’s keys.

Just seemed obvious he’d called from Washington to establish an alibi.

i wonder had Jordan not called for a wellness check, would the police have  known about him?  I suppose so after finding cards and receipts but that helped put this guy on the radar.

[LakeGal]

Season 47, Episode 2 • New

When a young singer disappears, her family, police and a woman with a prophetic vision launch an urgent search, but it's a set of keys that unlocks the answers.

 

[ljenkins782]

On 9/9/2024 at 12:34 PM, nora1992 said:

Having only read about the Karen Read trial, I thought there was a lot of reasonable doubt in the case.  Having watched Friday’s episode and listening to her, she’s lucky her lawyer confused some jurors.

I sympathize with defendants often, but not now: it was the showing-her-father-the-cracked-tail light-after-the-suicide-watch-release-in-the-middle-of-a-blizzard explanation that did it.  Of everything going on, checking the car is strange.

I hadn't heard of this one either, but boy, she was hard to find sympathy for. At first I thought I was just reacting to the hardness of her look and her overall smugness, but she just had too many answers for questions that weren't being asked.

In fairness, I guess she's now hyperaware of the facts of the case, but her bringing up the conversation she allegedly had with her dad about the taillight 30 seconds into her retelling of the story came across very much like a cover your ass move.

Given the mass quantities of alcohol seemingly consumed by all of them, I can absolutely believe she ran over him by accident and made a really poor choice to try to cover it up. 

Quote

I have a friend who followed the trial and attended. She made her own shirts with a cricut. She is a big-time follower of "Turtle Boy", who is the one who drummed up the support. (I don't know much about him other than he is an online presence.)

I have never, ever understood the people who stand outside courtrooms in high profile cases, but this one was especially puzzling. The level of investment in something they can't possibly know anything about was so strange.

[GiandujaPie]

On 9/27/2024 at 4:05 PM, LakeGal said:

Season 47, Episode 2 • New

When a young singer disappears, her family, police and a woman with a prophetic vision launch an urgent search, but it's a set of keys that unlocks the answers.

 

This case was covered on an old Forensic Files episode. I remember the thing about finding the key in the car and how they tried every door in the apartment complex. 

Karen Read - too much reasonable doubt with the compromised investigation. 

Black Swan - I'm glad she got convicted. She didn't seem authentic to me and her story just didn't make sense. 

Dr. Garcia - felt bad that he was in the closet when it seems like his family and friends would have been supportive. Jordan clearly was a predator and preyed on vulnerable women and men. 

[LakeGal]

Season 47, Episode 3 • New

Romantic jealousy leads to murder, and detectives discover the killer was closer than they could have imagined when a cold case leads to a conviction.

[DanaK]

A special edition of 20/20 will be on Wednesday at 10pm ET called “The Secret Life of Diddy”, about musician/businessman Sean Combs, who has been federally indicted for sex trafficking and other crimes

[LakeGal]

Last night's episode was one I have seen so many times.  I just skipped ahead to the end to see what the new results were.  

[LakeGal]

Season 47, Episode 4 • New

When a young mother disappears, authorities dive for clues and answers in a muddy creek while suspicious surveillance videos reveal two potential suspects walking free.

[patty1h]

On 10/11/2024 at 5:35 PM, LakeGal said:

When a young mother disappears, authorities dive for clues and answers in a muddy creek while suspicious surveillance videos reveal two potential suspects walking free.

Grant Haze playing the victim... laughable.  Grant Haze is a creep and his wife and him are where they belong.   Amanda's daughter rubbed me the wrong way.  She seemed to be in denial that mom's hands are just as bloody.

Edited October 13 by patty1h

[DanaK]

Tonight's 20/20 will be an update on the Menendez Brothers

 

[DanaK]

A special edition of 20/20 on November 27 from 9-11pm ET: "The Untold Story of Mary Poppins"

http://thefutoncritic.com/news/2024/11/01/tis-the-season-for-holiday-cheer-on-abc-637214/20241101abc01/

[DanaK]

There will also be special edition on Sunday November 3 at 10pm about the recent death of singer Liam Payne

[LakeGal]

Dateline did the same crime on the same night this one aired.  It was the Halloween party one.  

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, LakeGal said:

Dateline did the same crime on the same night this one aired.  It was the Halloween party one.  

Thanks to a poster on Dateline I found this forum again! I posted on the Dateline thread that I thought the 20/20 episode was much more thorough than the Dateline episode which gave too much airtime to the annoying podcaster/PI.

I would love to hear opinions of others who watched both episodes. However both episodes left no doubt in my mind that David is guilty.  Too bad that he can only be convicted of manslaughter at the most now. 

[LakeGal]

Dateline spent a lot more time on the Swinger angle.  Both shows did their version.  I do think this one gave more details.  

Edited November 3 by LakeGal

[pdlinda]

1 hour ago, LakeGal said:

Dateline spent a lot more time on the Swinger angle.  Both shows did their version.  I do think this one gave more details.  

Yes, I agree with you.

[GiandujaPie]

20/20 did have a better version. Dateline wasted all that time on the podcaster and the old guy who owned the Burger Land franchises. 

I do not think the prosecution proved their case, but I do think David did kill Karen. If she had been killed by a random person, I think there would be more forensics because that person wouldn't have been motivated to try to clean up the crime scene. David probably killed her outside somewhere and then buried the evidence which is why there was no forensics in the house or garage.  I can't remember now which show mentioned it, but a burn barrel was found near the body which contained a workout dumbbell and police had noticed that the set at the house was missing one. I think Dateline also mentioned that bleach bottles were found at the house but they never said if David was able to provide a plausible explanation for them but they also said there was no smell of bleach in the house. 

The fact that David stalked his second ex-wife does not prove that he murdered Karen, but it definitely shows he is controlling and is probably not above getting so angry at an intimate partner that he could kill them. 

[badgerwoman]

20 hours ago, GiandujaPie said:

 

The fact that David stalked his second ex-wife does not prove that he murdered Karen, but it definitely shows he is controlling and is probably not above getting so angry at an intimate partner that he could kill them. 

I finally watched this version, and the interview with the ex was a great edition.  His poor daughter is in denial about him - he's caught stalking the ex and she still thinks he couldn't do it.  I know women who have been stalked, it is so unbelievably scary. 

this version also shows that the prosecution could have made a better case. 

 

[LakeGal]

Season 47, Episode 8 • New

A heart-pounding body-camera video captures moments after a firefighter is gunned down; a family drama unfolds in real time as police hunt for the killer.

 

 

[UsernameFatigue]

The firefighter's death episode was strange. I did nod off a couple of times, but it seemed like the only thing the prosecution had on his wife was the phone call to her sister's boyfriend before her husband was killed? Though I do think she was responsible. Interesting that she kept talking to her son about the pension, not knowing that any benefits were to go to his daughter.

I am always gobsmacked about how little self esteem some women have. The sister? Before she met him her boyfriend was in jail for two decades for murder. When he gets out, in less than a year he murders again. This time her own brother in law. But she still loves him and wears his ring. OMG.

I did wonder once the wife revealed that the firefighter was her 6th husband, if the first 5 husbands are still alive. If any have passed I'd be looking into their deaths if I were law enforcement. 

Edited Sunday at 02:07 AM by UsernameFatigue

[pdlinda]

18 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I am always gobsmacked about how little self esteem some women have. The sister?

I thought that the traumatic history both sisters had in foster care may have led to the life experiences both had later in life.

Without long-term psychotherapy it's hard to navigate life as an adult in a healthy manner.  These sisters illustrate that fact.  

That dynamic continues generation after generation.  I noticed all the different last names among the children from both sisters.  Now these kids have the additional issue to deal with regarding the criminal matter the show covered.

[UsernameFatigue]

15 hours ago, pdlinda said:

I thought that the traumatic history both sisters had in foster care may have led to the life experiences both had later in life.

Without long-term psychotherapy it's hard to navigate life as an adult in a healthy manner.  These sisters illustrate that fact.  

That dynamic continues generation after generation.  I noticed all the different last names among the children from both sisters.  Now these kids have the additional issue to deal with regarding the criminal matter the show covered.

All good points. I do wonder though in the case of Becky and Mandy, adopted at 4.5 and 2.5 years into what seemed to be an upper middle class, loving home, how much of the early years they might remember, particularly Mandy? Nothing was said about the dentist adoptive father and his wife (who gave up her job to raise the girls) in the present time so I assume they are estranged from the daughters?

Did they ever say how many kids each of the sisters has? I only remember Becky's two sons, one who was interviewed and one who testified. They did have different surnames but considering that Becky was married 5 times before Robbie that would not be a surprise. I was actually impressed with both sons, and also was touched that the brother that testified and Robbie's daughter seem close. I only remember a daughter of Mandy's being interviewed, and a pic of her and a sibling in a family pic with Mandy's boyfriend.

In the case of Mandy and my comment about self esteem, I do think that nature has as much to do with how someone turns out as nurture. We have certainly seen (and know) people with great upbringings/parents who do not have self esteem and continually make bad choices.  And others with terrible childhoods who turn out great and almost make a point of their past not dictating their future. In any case I wish all the kids well, and hope Mandy can find happiness. 

[TVbitch]

That's about as skant for evidence as I've seen for a conviction. But her son and sister thinking she's guilty is pretty damning. I wonder if before the shooters trial, he will come clean for some consideration, but with her already in jail with a long sentence there is not a lot of bargaining power. 

[Vivigirl10]

21 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

All good points. I do wonder though in the case of Becky and Mandy, adopted at 4.5 and 2.5 years into what seemed to be an upper middle class, loving home, how much of the early years they might remember, particularly Mandy?

Wow - they both (Mandy in particular) seemed to be a huge argument for nature over nurture.  

14 hours ago, TVbitch said:

That's about as skant for evidence as I've seen for a conviction.

I don't feel certain either way if she was involved or not but I know there's no way I would have been able to convict her.  I mean come on, zero evidence.

Mandy made my blood literally boil.  Good Lord, another case of a woman throwing herself AND HER CHILDREN completely in the line of danger all to have a man.  She brought this fresh out of prison killer into a home with what appeared to be at the time a pre-teen or young teenage daughter.  Unforgiveable.  She didn't tell any of the family about his history.  And now appears to remain committed to him even after he slaughtered an absolutely amazing relative of hers.  I mean, I don't know how you can get any more gross.  Good luck looking in the mirror, Mandy.  

[ljenkins782]

1 hour ago, Vivigirl10 said:

Wow - they both (Mandy in particular) seemed to be a huge argument for nature over nurture.  

I don't feel certain either way if she was involved or not but I know there's no way I would have been able to convict her.  I mean come on, zero evidence.

Mandy made my blood literally boil.  Good Lord, another case of a woman throwing herself AND HER CHILDREN completely in the line of danger all to have a man.  She brought this fresh out of prison killer into a home with what appeared to be at the time a pre-teen or young teenage daughter.  Unforgiveable.  She didn't tell any of the family about his history.  And now appears to remain committed to him even after he slaughtered an absolutely amazing relative of hers.  I mean, I don't know how you can get any more gross.  Good luck looking in the mirror, Mandy.  

The show made me feel like she was involved, but I agree that the evidence wasn't that strong. I think I might be judging her based on her multiple marriages and the odd insistence that she deletes every phone call/text.

Certainly not evidence for murder, but to me that was evidence of a person I wouldn't trust. Getting into a habit of deleting phone calls and texts most likely stems from some situation where you felt the need to cover your tracks. And her lack of explanation for whatever relationship she might have had with her sister's fiancé also seemed suspicious. 

The Mandy part was indeed very troubling. I admit to spacing out a bit when they introduced her part so I initially missed the murder part and only realized it later in the show. What on earth was she thinking? 

[pdlinda]

6 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

What on earth was she thinking? 

It's obvious SHE WASN'T THINKING....