S02.E05: Low Self Esteem City

[David T. Cole]

A bathroom turf war sees deeper lines drawn in the sand as Gloria and Vee go head to head. Piper receives devastating news.

[maraleia]

The sight of the pipes backing up in the shower was probably the grossest thing I've seen on this show since it premiered. Also, Lorraine Toussaint is knocking it out of the park at Vee and I can't wait to see what else she worms her way into as the episodes progress.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ugh, I agree. The poop water in the showers was disgusting! That administrative bitch is ridiculous. 30 second showers? Hell no!

Vee is the most manipulative person I've seen on TV in a while. She would have been a great pimp. She knows exactly how to play on their insecurities and then make them feel wanted.

No complaints about seeing the abusive boyfriend go up in flames though. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!

Edited June 7, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Happy to be here]

Vee is the most manipulative person I've seen on TV in a while. She would have been a great pimp. She knows exactly how to play on their insecurities and then make them feel wanted.

 

 

Good villians are hard to find.  Plus we still don't know what Vee really wants.  Is it just power or is it something else?  I am really enjoying her scense plus I am liking anything with her and Red.    Nice to see the older actresses getting some meaty stuff.  

[bravelittletoaster]

Vee is pretty magic. That scene in the bathroom where she's manipulating Gloria was just brilliant. I'm really intrigued by her as an addition to this show. I've actually always liked Gloria too. So it was fun seeing them go head to head and also learning more about her backstory.

Fun / gross fact: Big Boo's line about how she'd "like to have her dick in [Alex's] mouth" was taken directly from real life. Lea said that about Laura in an interview. (I think they're probably used to her sense of humor on set though, and I also think Laura Prepon can probably take care of herself.)

I heard there was going to be a sex competition between Nicky and Boo in preseason reviews and was a little worried how that would play out, but it was light and amusing.

[Brn2bwild]

Did anyone else not get subtitles with this episode or the following one?  Were we supposed to be able to follow the Gloria flashbacks without understanding what they were saying (unless we spoke Spanish)?

[saltylemon]

Brn2bwild, I didn't get them either. It's ridiculous to have such a large portion of the show in another language with no subtitles.  Very huge fail in my book.

[ApathyMonger]

Did anyone else not get subtitles with this episode or the following one?  Were we supposed to be able to follow the Gloria flashbacks without understanding what they were saying (unless we spoke Spanish)?

 

Nope, definitely subtitles there for me.

 

http://i.imgur.com/XK9fHiG.png

[Pixel]

I had subtitles too.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I had subtitles for all of those scenes too.

[saltylemon]

Apparently older devices don't have subtitles on Netflix. Looks like I have an excuse to make an upgrade in my future. :) I pulled the eps up directly on the Netflix site and I was able to catch all the parts I missed the first time for anyone else experiencing this issue. Thanks for all the feedback.

[millennium]

Did anyone else not get subtitles with this episode or the following one?  Were we supposed to be able to follow the Gloria flashbacks without understanding what they were saying (unless we spoke Spanish)?

I definitely got subtitles.

[bravelittletoaster]

I kind of like what they're doing with Caputo this season.  On one hand, I understand Kerman's reservations with them humanizing the guards too much--it wasn't her experience and it's something she feels understandably strongly about having lived it.  On the other hand, I think a depiction of them as more uniformly heartless [while perhaps feeling more authentic to someone who experienced it] would have the unfortunate effect of coming across more cartoonish.  I've certainly had plenty of experiences where we've remarked "if you filmed this people would say it was over the top."  So that having been said, I like that Caputo, chronic at-work-masturbator that he is, actually does have genuine concern for the women and just some basic human decency that they should be "clean and safe."  I mean, yes, I know it's a low fucking bar.  But it's something.  And then it was interesting to see how that affected the [still untrustworthy imo] Healey afterwards.

 

And I find all of that way more interesting than the "romance" between Bennett and Daya, which was the only real false note for me last year.  I still think it's gross and inappropriate and my God the two characters just seem so dumb, like they're barely putting together a three digit IQ between the two of them.  So far I've been pleasantly surprised not to feel like they've been particularly foregrounded this season, though I have a lot of season to go...So if the guards are to have more attention, I'm glad that so far it's been spread out amongst them more.  And I also find the big guy kind of endearing.

Edited June 8, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Daya and Bennett's relationship is totally inappropriate, but on the other hand, it does happen. People get into inappropriate relationships all the time, even prison, and to be honest, if I have to see a prisoner/guard relationship then I'd rather see it be consensual than the gross shit that Pornstache was doing with the girls in S1.

 

And to be fair, a lot of relationships start out like Daya and Bennett's - two people who really have nothing in common but they start to like each other anyway. But to me, the beginnings of relationships are the easy part because it's all about flirting and attraction. It's later that things get real and sometimes complicated, so although I wasn't crazy about Daya getting pregnant, I think that in a way it's been a good way to unromanticize their relationship because now it's less about flirting and leaving little notes and more about the reality of how inappropriate their relationship is (and how much trouble both of them could get into if the wrong people find out about it).

 

I do like that despite all of Caputo's failings and grossness, he does care about the prisoners at least having their most basic needs met by way of safety and cleanliness. yes, they're criminals but they still deserve to take daily showers. I know that's still setting the bar pretty low but considering that Figueroa doesn't think they deserve even that much, Caputo looks like a kind-hearted soul in comparison. I don't necessarily need a back story on each guard/prison employee but I agree that it's good that they don't make all of them into caricatures who are all evil soulless assholes. I feel like some of them are normal people who either thought they could make a difference or even just needed a job and gradually got worn down by the fruitlessness of what they do and seeing how the system works. Healey seems like a decent guy who gets frustrated by the limitations of what he's allowed to do for the prisoners, how thankless his job is (even when he manages to do something nice for them, they don't seem very grateful), and how endless the grind is because no matter how much he does, there are always going to be problems.

 

But as far as the newsletter goes, I don't think that the prisoners are going to say, "Oh, it's okay if that guard gave me a shot because hey, he likes kittens just like me!"

[bravelittletoaster]

On a different topic entirely [because I could only watch this one episode yesterday and hey, what a surprise, it means I've thought about it more], I liked the scene with Piper and Cal in visitation where they were playing the terrible guessing game as to what was wrong in the family with the momentary childlike elation at "winning" and then Piper coming back down when she realized what they'd just said.  Heh.  I mean, it was over the top and absurdist, but I want the show to guard that part of itself carefully ["The Chickening" being a modern television classic IMO and always to be emulated in tone when possible.]

 

ETA: I also love the sideswipe to Neri being weird in the reception area because she was on some watchlist.  lol

 

Regardless of everything Jenji said about getting further away from the book this season, they sure are using a good bit of the book this season.  I'm kind of steeling myself, though, because Piper's grandmother's illness in the book was one of the most wrenching parts for me that I won't get into until we deal with it on the show, but I think they're going to go in a different direction here that's going to vaguely annoy me.  But enough of that for now.  I was just kind of surprised to see it show up here as a plot thread already.

Edited June 9, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[Steph01924]

I agree, bravelittletoaster, I loved Piper and her brother playing the hiding game. And Neri, I totally forgot about her. That little part was hilarious.

[SaabStory]

Andrew McCarthy directed this episode. After Gloria is arrested and her family heads back into her store, there is a life sized "poster" of Andrew McCarthy on the front of the store. I didn't go back to look , but he might be holding a NY Lottery sign.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ha, I saw his name in the beginning and then I laughed when they later showed the huge sign. I love that they do stuff like that.

[piewarmer]

I just love that Caputo's in a band named Sideboob! 

 

I was pretty confused when I watched this episode the first time using my older Roku to stream - it didn't display any subtitles. Rewatched on my iPad and caught the details with the subtitles.

[DangerousMinds]

Love the band name too! I like the character so much more just for that:)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I really want to know who came up with the band name. Based on Caputo's masturbatory activities at work, I'd guess he had something to do with it.

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

Did anyone else not get subtitles with this episode or the following one?  Were we supposed to be able to follow the Gloria flashbacks without understanding what they were saying (unless we spoke Spanish)?

 

Glad I'm not the only one with subtitle weirdness!! I have an HD Roku and it has been flashing up Spanish CC when English signs are displayed, for reasons I can't fathom. Then it didn't subtitle any of the Spanish dialog until I explicitly turned on English CC, but then EVERYTHING was CC'd of course, which is annoying. I bought the box like a year ago so can't imagine it's that out of date. It makes no sense to me, as if it thinks I am Spanish speaking it should be CC'ing all the ENglish dialog too and not just translating signs/book titles. Going to check my default settings, but I can' timagine it defaults to Spanish and I know I haven't changed the language settings. The Spanish sign translations show up even when I have subtitles turned to "off", and while they don't translate every single sign they do translate some signs/book titles, and some of them don't even seem relevent to the plot!

[piewarmer]

No, the subtitle weirdness has been all over the map for me.  Watching on a newer, non Roku device got me usable subtitles witout turning on CC for this and another episode with a lot of German (look at me, being vague), but for yet another episode with lots of foreign language, the subtitles displayed about five minutes after the scenes were over.  I've seen some debate about whether to blame Netfix or Roku for the lack of subtitles, but it's definitely been problematic to understand several of this season's episodes.

 

The struggle is real!

 

I agree that I like the development of Caputo wanting to do the human decency minimum for the inmates, and it seemed like the motivation was because it's the right thing to do, not because it's his job description.

Edited June 11, 2014 by piewarmer

[Kel Varnsen]

I agree that I like the development of Caputo wanting to do the human decency minimum for the inmates, and it seemed like the motivation was because it's the right thing to do, not because it's his job description.

 

I liked it too. I also thought it was interesting how Healey totally latched onto Caputo at the bar and the next day at work, especially after his wife reminded him that he had no friends.

 

Speaking of Caputo that plumber was totally trying to rip him off. If you have underground pipes that are backing up because of tree roots, you don't have to remove the concrete. There is a process that can be done where 1 machine clears out all the root blockage and then a second machine lines the pipe with a type of plastic so that the inside surface of the pipe is like new. We had it done at our house a few years ago as roots from trees on City property were causing damage to our sewer drains. It is not cheap (luckily the city paid for it) but it is much cheaper than what that plumber was describing.

 

I am also curious to see if/how Caputo can get around Fig and go to the warden. I am also interested to get more backstory on the warden, like what exactly does he do?

 

Also did anyone pick up any indication on when Gloria was arrested. I like trying to figure out when people were arrested and trying to figure out how much time they are doing. Gloria looked so much younger in the flashbacks. How much time would she really get for ripping off the food stamp program?

[Skittl1321]

 

Speaking of Caputo that plumber was totally trying to rip him off.

Wasn't it basically a fake plumbing company set up to funnel money to the assistant warden?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think normally they use fake contractors so Fig can funnel the money, but in this case Caputo called someone who was not on the approved list which was part of the reason she was so pissed.

[Kel Varnsen]

Wasn't it basically a fake plumbing company set up to funnel money to the assistant warden?

I thought she was pissed off because the dude was basically just some random plumber that Caputo found in the phone book, not someone from her "preferred vendors list". Speaking of which I really can't wait for the assistant wardens scams to blow up in her face. And I can't believe it has taken this long. I mean there is that reporter who knows what is going on. Plus her husband is running in an election, which means their lives must be scrutinized like crazy. Plus everyone that works for her, seems to hate her.

[radishcake]

On a different topic entirely [because I could only watch this one episode yesterday and hey, what a surprise, it means I've thought about it more], I liked the scene with Piper and Cal in visitation where they were playing the terrible guessing game as to what was wrong in the family with the momentary childlike elation at "winning" and then Piper coming back down when she realized what they'd just said.  Heh.  I mean, it was over the top and absurdist, but I want the show to guard that part of itself carefully ["The Chickening" being a modern television classic IMO and always to be emulated in tone when possible.]

My brother and I would have totally done this exact thing. I actually got teary when I saw it because he died in 2010 and it's SO a thing we would have done. Perfect little moment. 

[Olive]

In this episode, Maria's baby turns a year old.  In the first season, Polly and Maria had their babies at the same time yet Polly's baby still seems like an infant.  Also, that would mean Piper has been in for a least a year.  Not sure why the writers took this creative license because Maria's baby's birthday didn't seem to advance the story in any way.

[SNeaker]

Are you sure it was the same woman saying her baby was turning one? I feel like there was another woman who mentioned her baby's birthday aside from Maria. Maria's baby that they've shown during visitation doesn't seem to be even close to a year old.

[buttercupia]

definitely not the same baby, if it'd been a year, Daya would not still be stealth pregnant.

[bravelittletoaster]

Yeah that's not what a 1 year old baby looks like.

 

Piper was incarcerated around late Sept/early October.  It's now approximately late Feb/early March in the show's timeline at the end of season 2.

[CodeNameDuchess]

I think the baby celebration was for Martiza's kid.  In S1 there was talk of her baby being raised by a lesbian family member. 

 

Loved the exchange with Piper and her brother - "sick grandma!" *high five*

[Olive]

Thanks, you all are right.  I rewatched it and see now that it was the young girl's baby.  

[ganesh]

This was a little more humorous than the prior episodes, with the 'game'. I find Healy's life sad, but I laugh at it. I don't mind some of the personal lives of the guards. I also liked the back and forth with Piper and Red about Clive Owen in Croupier. I loved that movie. 

 

"Behind every man is a c***-faced witch." Ha ha ha ha ha. I so hope Fig gets busted. 

 

I was surprised that Gloria was such a door mat. These flashbacks have been the best part of the current season. With not having Piper front and center a close second. 

 

I'm pretty over Vee. She manipulative!!! Look at her manipulating!!! oooooooh! To what end? Because she can and she gets off on it? Yawn. Bad people are in jail. Alert the media. I hope they unfold this a little more soon because it's getting trying. I'm more interested in Red fixing up the greenhouse and getting her groove back.

[Alison]

Glad I'm not the only one with subtitle weirdness!! I have an HD Roku and it has been flashing up Spanish CC when English signs are displayed, for reasons I can't fathom. Then it didn't subtitle any of the Spanish dialog until I explicitly turned on English CC, but then EVERYTHING was CC'd of course, which is annoying. I bought the box like a year ago so can't imagine it's that out of date. It makes no sense to me, as if it thinks I am Spanish speaking it should be CC'ing all the ENglish dialog too and not just translating signs/book titles. Going to check my default settings, but I can' timagine it defaults to Spanish and I know I haven't changed the language settings. The Spanish sign translations show up even when I have subtitles turned to "off", and while they don't translate every single sign they do translate some signs/book titles, and some of them don't even seem relevent to the plot!

I'm having the exact same problem with my Roku, which I bought last April/May. I checked my settings and they were as they should be, but the show is only captioning signs/book titles in Spanish. For this episode, I kept stopping, turning on the CC for scenes in Spanish/Russian, then stopping and turning them off when the scene was in English.

[Sweets McGee]

I'm having the exact same problem with my Roku, which I bought last April/May. I checked my settings and they were as they should be, but the show is only captioning signs/book titles in Spanish. For this episode, I kept stopping, turning on the CC for scenes in Spanish/Russian, then stopping and turning them off when the scene was in English.

 

I just did the same thing with Roku 2. Switched back and forth the whole ep. I tried to leave the subtitles on during the English speaking scenes, but it was too distracting. I'd be reading what was going to be said before it was said!

 

[DrLar]

Red was so right about Vee playing Flor,  she plans to take over the kitchen and soon...

[Hanahope]

Heh, wonder what's up with Nerry's (was that it?) background.

 

Vee is just causing all sorts of problems with Gloria and crew.  And she knows how to play people alright.

 

I feel for Healy, but he's got the wrong way of working out his problems.  Though wonder what got into him after Caputo's concert.  Just felt good hanging out with a 'friend'?

 

I can't wait to see the take down of Fig, I so hope that happens.  She's just awful.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Hanahope