Loathesome!: Characters We Hate

[Spartan Girl]

Walter on Ugly Betty. I could have forgiven the fact that he was a pathetic, sad-sack loser if he didn’t treat Betty like garbage. He cheated on and dumped Betty for the neighborhood tramp, then came running back to her after said tramp dumped his ass. He had the nerve to get huffy when she didn’t automatically forgive him after throwing a bunch of gifts her way. He still showed up at her house whenever he wanted, then had the AUDACITY to make sniping judgments about her going to Mode parties.

And when she was finally browbeaten by his love-bombing into taking him back, he was still a jealous unsupportive petty asshole about her career. She couldn’t even have lunch with a coworker or get a massage at a hotel without him throwing a tantrum and accuse her of cheating—the height of hypocrisy. Most viewers despised him back when the show aired, but now people have called him out as an emotional abuser.

The worst part is how Ignacio and Hilda took his side over Betty’s every single time. They let him come to the house for Tamale Night without even asking Betty if it was okay, and when Betty told them she didn’t feel comfortable having him there, Ignacio scolded her for being “rude” (but didn’t defend her when Walter made rude cracks about her having one fucking drink at a Mode party). Why, if it hadn’t been for Hilda’s meddling, Betty would have dumped him and gotten with Henry sooner, sparing us all that stupid love triangle drama!

You know what? Add Ignacio and Hilda to the hated character list too, because they picked up right where Walter left off, making Betty feel guilty for having a career and being less available for the Suarez family beck-and-call.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[JustHereForFood]

I hated Roose and Ramsay equally. If Roose hadn't raped Ramsay's mother, there would be no Ramsay.

[Haleth]

I quit buying the dvds after the season Ramsay was introduced.  I knew I'd never watch the shows again.

[proserpina65]

5 hours ago, Haleth said:

I quit buying the dvds after the season Ramsay was introduced.  I knew I'd never watch the shows again.

I stopped buying them because I couldn't afford it at the time.  Might eventually because there are seasons I'd rewatch.  Except season 5, by far the worst season of the entire series, imo.  (I'll watch it during my HOTD wait because there is some decent stuff in it, but I'd only ever buy it for completion's sake.)  Sure, it has Hardhome, which is fantastic, and a few other good episodes but it also has that terrible Dorne storyline and the not nearly as interesting as it could've been Arya storyline.  And don't get me started on Tyrion's boring-ass travels in Essos.

[Danny Franks]

Immediate revulsion for Renna, from her first line in The Wheel of Time. Sure, she's a product of her society and its beliefs, but she's a complete monster who genuinely believes slavery is right and that those enslaved should be thankful.

The actor's performance is so good, too. Everything is played so minimally, with this cajoling, faux-empathetic attitude and a sense of actually being hurt when the slave doesn't act like a loyal animal.

[Spartan Girl]

Pretty much all the Camdens on 7th Heaven were terrible**, but I especially hated Lucy. Her psychotic jealousy of Kevin’s partner Roxanne was when I really hated her. And the fact that she still got the marriage proposal she always wanted after the terrible way she treated Kevin and Roxanne was just infuriating. Any other sane man would have run for the hills.

**Except Mary. For being “the problem child” she had the good sense to get the hell away from her family. Can’t hate her for that.

[RunningMarket]

I remember watching one episode where Lucy was basically berating Kevin into proposing, and my friend and I (both early 20s at the time) made a promise that we would knock some sense into the other if we acted in such a manner.

[Laura Holt]

My husband is a fan of the show Two and a Half Men so  I've seen way more episodes of it that I ever would have chosen to - anyway my choice for loathsome character I hate is Rose.  She starts off kooky and a little offbeat but eventually she's a stalker, a possible murderer and then a kidnapper.  And yet no comeuppance.  None.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Laura Holt

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, RunningMarket said:

I remember watching one episode where Lucy was basically berating Kevin into proposing, and my friend and I (both early 20s at the time) made a promise that we would knock some sense into the other if we acted in such a manner.

I hate that she was basically rewarded for her behavior. She doesn’t treat Kevin much better when they’re married either.

[juno]

1 hour ago, Laura Holt said:

My husband is a fan of the show Two and a Half Men so  I've seen way more episodes of it that I ever would have chosen to - anyway my choice for loathsome character I hate is Rose.  She starts off kooky and a little offbeat but eventually she's a stalker, a possible murderer and then a kidnapper.  And yet no comeuppance.  None.

I get what you are saying but I loathed Judith. Not once was there ever any positivity from her character and as much as I could not stand Alan, she was worse.

[Spartan Girl]

59 minutes ago, juno said:

I get what you are saying but I loathed Judith. Not once was there ever any positivity from her character and as much as I could not stand Alan, she was worse.

What about Lyndsey? She treated Alan like dirt whenever they were together but went all Clingy Jealous Girl every time he tried to move on with someone else. She was HORRENDOUS.

[partofme]

28 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

What about Lyndsey? She treated Alan like dirt whenever they were together but went all Clingy Jealous Girl every time he tried to move on with someone else. She was HORRENDOUS.

Yeah I hated Lindsey and Judith.   I actually liked Rose, don’t get me wrong, she was crazy and I would hate her irl, but I think she’s what Charlie deserved. 

[Laura Holt]

When I think about it was there actually any character on Two and Half Men who was a decent person?  Arguably Jake - the stupidest teenager to ever walk the earth - and Herb?  I'd say Berta but she was problematic in a lot of ways too. Of the other main cast, in some ways, Charlie ended up being the best of a sorry bunch, for all his faults he did put up with Alan (though this would happen only on a sitcom!) and he did his best for Jake.   

[Katy M]

On 9/27/2023 at 5:52 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Pretty much all the Camdens on 7th Heaven were terrible**, but I especially hated Lucy. Her psychotic jealousy of Kevin’s partner Roxanne was when I really hated her. And the fact that she still got the marriage proposal she always wanted after the terrible way she treated Kevin and Roxanne was just infuriating. Any other sane man would have run for the hills.

**Except Mary. For being “the problem child” she had the good sense to get the hell away from her family. Can’t hate her for that.

Lucy definitely had her issues, but I more or less liked her.  The one I couldn't stand was Ruthie.  She was kind of cute when she was little, but she always the biggest brat.

[jennifer6973]

From NCIS:  SecNav Jarvis

                     M. Allison Hart

                    Dr.  Samantha Ryan

[Spartan Girl]

Brilliant video. Hit every nail on the head of why Wes was another shitty Whedon male.

Perhaps this will be the channel that finally takes Xander down? I hate to get my hopes up. There was another video person I thought would do it, but then they added Xander to their favorite character list, and then said “Xander doesn’t deserve all the hate he gets.”

UNSUBSCRIBE!

[Mabinogia]

55 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

it, but then they added Xander to their favorite character list, and then said “Xander doesn’t deserve all the hate he gets.”

Meanwhile I'm all "Xander doesn't get all the hate he deserves!" Seriously, one of my least favorite characters of all time. And that's saying something. I'm a big old bundle of hate. lol

[BlueSkies]

AJ's guidance counselor in The Sopranos.  He came off already on the condescending side at first.  But I thought it was gross him sleeping with Carmella,  AJ's mom.  

[BlueSkies]

Brandon Walsh from 90210.  As a kid I thought he was like the epitome of cool.  As an adult though he comes off very self righteous more often than not 

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

Brandon Walsh from 90210.  As a kid I thought he was like the epitome of cool.  As an adult though he comes off very self righteous more often than not 

He oozed self righteousness out of every pore.

I hate watched that show off and on during the early seasons, with a friend who was really into it.  At first it was kind of awesomely bad, but it quickly became just bad.  Brandon was one of its many, many flaws (not to mention the gross, sexist discrepancy between how the Walsh parents treated Brandon and Brenda over the same things (see, e.g., sex).

I also hated Kelly when she would affect that stupid baby voice around guys.

[andromeda331]

Yeah Brandon was insufferable.

I liked Kelly and Dylan until they slept together while Brenda was away. That was crappy on both their parts. 

[Spartan Girl]

I know we’ve never actually met Emma, Charles’ ex and Lucy’s mom on Only Murders in the Building, but I already hate her anyway. Lots of people would love their boyfriend/girlfriend to get along so well with their kids, but Emma was so jealous over Lucy bonding with Charles that she not only dumped him, but she banned Charles from even contacting her out of pure spite. It wasn’t because she was afraid he was some kind of pervert, she was just being a petty, spiteful bitch.

Edited January 10 by Spartan Girl

[Ohiopirate02]

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I know we’ve never actually met Emma, Charles’ ex and Lucy’s mom on Only Murders in the Building, but I already hate her anyway. Lots of people would love their boyfriend/girlfriend to get along so well with their kids, but Emma was so jealous over Lucy bonding with Charles that she not only dumped him, but she banned Charles from even contacting her out of pure spite. It wasn’t because she was afraid he was some kind of pervert, she was just being a petty, spiteful bitch.

And she hurt her kid in the process.  As soon as Lucy is old enough to traverse NYC by herself, she heads back to the Arconia to see Charles.  How selfish to make Lucy think Charles abandoned her when she was the one who severed the relationship so abruptly.

[Spartan Girl]

8 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

And she hurt her kid in the process.  As soon as Lucy is old enough to traverse NYC by herself, she heads back to the Arconia to see Charles.  How selfish to make Lucy think Charles abandoned her when she was the one who severed the relationship so abruptly.

Seriously. She obviously was more preoccupied with her own needs instead of her daughter’s. The fact that the guy that she wound up marrying is someone Lucy can’t stand speaks volumes on that.

[Egg McMuffin]

Brandon on 90210 was the worst. Especially when he pulled his self-righteous tude with his parents. Or when he tried to act all tough, because he was such a little pipsqueak.

[Bastet]

12 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

Especially when he pulled his self-righteous tude with his parents.

Which he always got away with, because the Walshes were completely ineffectual parents who had a slew of double standards, so that Brenda would get chewed out for stuff they just stood by and let him do.  It's not even like he's older, they're fucking twins.  Sexist twits.

[ellekaelin]

The Camden's I hated the most were honestly probably the most innocent ones... I HATE THOSE TWINS. They were some of the most awful kid actors. Not their fault they were like The Olsen Twins and started acting when they were newborns. 

[callie lee 29]

Sheldon, Amy, and Leonard's mother on The Big Bang Theory. 

Amy: fucking creepy, needy, and manipulative with Penny. Anytime Penny would try to draw boundaries it's all "oh you don't like me because I'm not cool or pretty enough for you. People were mean to me in high school just like you and your so shallow...." No it's that you have zero sense of boundaries and shove your way into situations and relationships that should grow at a normal rate. I would have gotten a restraining order.

Sheldon: also a manipulative little asshole who, I think, knew exactly what he was doing and didn't give a fuck. Narcissist little prick who could never take it when he got it dished right back at him.

Leonard's mom: just an utter horrible human being and mother. She shouldn't have been invited to the wedding 2.0 and she damn sure has no business whining that Leonard didn't tell her about his relationship and then marriage with Penny. 

[juno]

5 minutes ago, callie lee 29 said:

Sheldon, Amy, and Leonard's mother on The Big Bang Theory. 

Amy: fucking creepy, needy, and manipulative with Penny. Anytime Penny would try to draw boundaries it's all "oh you don't like me because I'm not cool or pretty enough for you. People were mean to me in high school just like you and your so shallow...." No it's that you have zero sense of boundaries and shove your way into situations and relationships that should grow at a normal rate. I would have gotten a restraining order.

Sheldon: also a manipulative little asshole who, I think, knew exactly what he was doing and didn't give a fuck. Narcissist little prick who could never take it when he got it dished right back at him.

Leonard's mom: just an utter horrible human being and mother. She shouldn't have been invited to the wedding 2.0 and she damn sure has no business whining that Leonard didn't tell her about his relationship and then marriage with Penny. 

Completely agree, especially Amy and Leonard's mother. Leonard's mother was so mean and cruel it was uncomfortable to watch her and made me dislike Leonard when he was with her. Even after they softened her character when she became a part of the cast I disliked Amy for your reasons and the way she constantly whined about Sheldon.

[JustHereForFood]

12 hours ago, callie lee 29 said:

Leonard's mom: just an utter horrible human being and mother. She shouldn't have been invited to the wedding 2.0 and she damn sure has no business whining that Leonard didn't tell her about his relationship and then marriage with Penny. 

I agree about Leonard's mother and add Sheldon's mother. And it's not just the way they are both written but also how the actresses portray them that drives me crazy. I've seen them both play other characters when I didn't have issues with their acting, but on this show they enhance the dislike I have for those characters. I cut Leonard and Sheldon a lot of slack for having to put up with them in their childhoods.

[juno]

1 hour ago, JustHereForFood said:

I agree about Leonard's mother and add Sheldon's mother. And it's not just the way they are both written but also how the actresses portray them that drives me crazy. I've seen them both play other characters when I didn't have issues with their acting, but on this show they enhance the dislike I have for those characters. I cut Leonard and Sheldon a lot of slack for having to put up with them in their childhoods.

I get what you are saying, but as annoying as Sheldon's mother is at least you get that she cares about him and loves him. Leonard's mom seems to hate him and not care about him at all. For a comedy show I found her to be a very dark, abusive character that doesn't belong on this show. At times they seem to be showing Leonard allowing himself to be constantly abused and bullied. Not many laughs from that.

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

I agree about Leonard's mother and add Sheldon's mother. And it's not just the way they are both written but also how the actresses portray them that drives me crazy. I've seen them both play other characters when I didn't have issues with their acting, but on this show they enhance the dislike I have for those characters. I cut Leonard and Sheldon a lot of slack for having to put up with them in their childhoods.

I love Christine Baranski I loved her in everything she's done except the Big Bang Theory. She was such a horrible bitch to Leonard. No wonder he was so messed up. She hated him. She made him do paper work for his birthday instead of party or anything as a kid. He made something to give him a hug. She puts him down at every turn. Conceals important stuff like divorcing his dad or his dog died but she told Sheldon. She wrote a book about him about his potty training or something dumping on him even more. I think he lives with Sheldon because he's so used to being treated like crap.

When she had the nerve to be mad at missing Leonard's wedding I really hoped he'd tell her off. Why would he want her there after treating him like shit his whole life?

11 hours ago, juno said:

I get what you are saying, but as annoying as Sheldon's mother is at least you get that she cares about him and loves him. Leonard's mom seems to hate him and not care about him at all. For a comedy show I found her to be a very dark, abusive character that doesn't belong on this show. At times they seem to be showing Leonard allowing himself to be constantly abused and bullied. Not many laughs from that.

I agree about Sheldon's mother. She does love Sheldon and is the only one who can snap him out of things when the rest of his friends can't. 

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree about Sheldon's mother. She does love Sheldon and is the only one who can snap him out of things when the rest of his friends can't. 

I liked Mary Cooper on Big Bang. Not so much on Young Sheldon, mainly because she’s a control freak who neglects her other kids in favor of Sheldon, especially Missy.

[proserpina65]

On 1/19/2024 at 11:18 PM, callie lee 29 said:

Sheldon: also a manipulative little asshole who, I think, knew exactly what he was doing and didn't give a fuck. Narcissist little prick who could never take it when he got it dished right back at him.

I still haven't figured out why Leonard didn't kill him in his sleep.  His friends would've helped him dispose of the body and cover for him.

[bluegirl147]

On 1/21/2024 at 6:30 AM, Spartan Girl said:

I liked Mary Cooper on Big Bang. Not so much on Young Sheldon, mainly because she’s a control freak who neglects her other kids in favor of Sheldon, especially Missy.

Same.  But I think for me it might have something to do with the actresses.   I love Laurie Metcalf but there is something about her daughter who plays Mary on YS that annoys me.  It might be her voice.  And also how she treats her husband and children other than Sheldon. 

The only reason I could tolerate Beverly Hofstadher was because of Christine Baranski.  But yeah she was an awful mother. To the point of being cruel.  If her character was on a drama she would be a villain and most likely she would be punished in some way. But on BBT it was played for laughs.

If we are talking loathsome characters may I offer up Miranda Hobbs.  She was fine on SATC but absolutely horrible on AJLT. She became a pod person totally unlike the Miranda we knew from SATC.   Even after shedding herself of the disaster that was Che Miranda was still awful.  At this point I don't think there is any hope of undoing the damage that was done to Miranda.

[BlueSkies]

Amanda Woodward from Melrose Place played by Heather Locklear.  

 

She was a total bitch but Heather was too beautiful and sexy playing that role.  I guess that's a testament to her acting!

 

I feel like her character almost still makes me a little sympathetic to real nasty employees.  I just picture them looking that alluring in their swimsuits.  lol

 

 

 

[KWalkerInc]

I hated it when they would forget Amanda was a villain and try too hard to make her sympathetic.  It's fine to have a gray area (even though it was an Aaron Spelling show), like her conflict with her father, but I didn't care for when they decided she needed more vulnerability, so they gave her cancer for like a month.  It was so bad she nearly died, then it was never mentioned again (I wasn't rooting for a recurrence, but I don't think she even ever saw a doctor again).  And her marriage to Kyle made me want to throw up, even though (once Sydney had died) she wasn't interfering with a couple I wanted to see together the way she usually was.  It was funny though how, even though Heather joined the regular cast starting with season 2, it still said "Special Guest Star" in the opening credits every episode for 6 years.  (90210 also did that with Luke Perry when he returned.)

[BlueSkies]

4 hours ago, KWalkerInc said:

I hated it when they would forget Amanda was a villain and try too hard to make her sympathetic.  It's fine to have a gray area (even though it was an Aaron Spelling show), like her conflict with her father, but I didn't care for when they decided she needed more vulnerability, so they gave her cancer for like a month.  It was so bad she nearly died, then it was never mentioned again (I wasn't rooting for a recurrence, but I don't think she even ever saw a doctor again).  And her marriage to Kyle made me want to throw up, even though (once Sydney had died) she wasn't interfering with a couple I wanted to see together the way she usually was.  It was funny though how, even though Heather joined the regular cast starting with season 2, it still said "Special Guest Star" in the opening credits every episode for 6 years.  (90210 also did that with Luke Perry when he returned.)

I was re-watching some old clips of the show.  There was a scene Amanda beat up on Allison at work I had to turn it off it was too vile and much for me to take.

 

 

I forgot about some of that stuff that you wrote.  I guess it's a testament to Heather.  As you said she was a Special Guest Star and I think saved the show.  From my perspective as a guy she was very beautiful and alluring but yeah a horrid person.  

[BlueSkies]

Speaking of Melrose Place, to be fair Lisa Rinna is the only Housewife I recognize.

 

On Melrose Place I used to think she was cute as a button and beautiful.  

 

Today, I mean even if these clips show her at her worst.  Yuck

 

Edited January 28 by BlueSkies

[juno]

Maybe she is a great actress, but I cannot stand any character of Parker Posey. I stopped watching Lost in Space because I could not take her anymore.

[BlueSkies]

Bianca or the Spanish girl that was AJs girlfriend on The Sopranos.  
 

I know AJ isn’t really the most sort of likeable character in the universe but I never liked her for breaking up with him.  With at least telling him why.

 

Ive been young and in love like AJ and ghosted.  And it sucks 

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, BlueSkies said:

Bianca or the Spanish girl that was AJs girlfriend on The Sopranos.  
 

I know AJ isn’t really the most sort of likeable character in the universe but I never liked her for breaking up with him.  With at least telling him why.

 

Ive been young and in love like AJ and ghosted.  And it sucks 

I felt bad for AJ over the break up .  He really seemed to love her and put real effort into having a relationship with her son

But I can't blame her for breaking up with him. She found out about his family and decided to end it, for whatever reason. More than carm ever did. 

[BlueSkies]

14 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I felt bad for AJ over the break up .  He really seemed to love her and put real effort into having a relationship with her son

But I can't blame her for breaking up with him. She found out about his family and decided to end it, for whatever reason. More than carm ever did. 

Was it his family or she he just didn’t like him anymore?

 

Either way I thought it was unfortunate from my perspective.  Younger people I think that stuff harder in general.  Like a coworkers son’s friend committed suicide after a break up similar to that. I don’t miss that stuff about being a teen anymore.  

[DrSpaceman73]

6 minutes ago, BlueSkies said:

Was it his family or she he just didn’t like him anymore?

 

Either way I thought it was unfortunate from my perspective.  Younger people I think that stuff harder in general.  Like a coworkers son’s friend committed suicide after a break up similar to that. I don’t miss that stuff about being a teen anymore.  

I thought it was pretty clear it was his family. 

[AgathaC]

Hubby and I are doing a rewatch of the original Dallas (I was not born/too young to watch the original run, but we watched it on DVD a few years ago). Anyway, this time around, I realize that I genuinely dislike a lot of the characters.

JR is horrendous, as well as a baby man. But he’s supposed to be awful, so I can let that slide.

But the other Ewings — particularly Bobby and Miss Ellie — are total enablers. They’ll give lip service to JR needing to straighten up, but the second someone holds him accountable or natural consequences set in, they circle the wagons. Ray’s guilty of that too.

The most egregious example was probably Miss Ellie keeping Lucy when JR had her literally snatched from her mother’s arms.

Thank goodness for Donna, Lucy and Clayton, who see him for who/what he is and call him on it.

For all the deification of Jock, he was pretty rotten himself.

I liked Pam when she was independent and feisty, but half the time, she was a weepy, unstable mess.

same for Sue Ellen — so easily manipulated by JR. But given the verbal and emotional abuse and gaslighting she suffered, I cut her some slack. When she finally toughened up and turned the tables on him, it was beautiful.

Speaking of unstable, I can’t stand Jenna. Period.

Still find myself liking Lucy (she’s a spoiled twit, but she’s funny and sharp at times), Donna (probably the only consistently strong, smart woman on the show) and Clayton (reminds me of my grandfather).

Still entertaining, but, boy, there are some whackadoodles.

[Egg McMuffin]

Agatha, I’m a big Dallas fan and I agree with all of your points.

In some ways, Miss Ellie is the worst. JR doesn’t pretend to be anything that he isn’t. Miss Ellie is super sanctimonious for someone who stood by while the Ewings kept Lucy away from her mother. Her desperation to keep her adult sons living at home and her characterization of those who move away as having been “lost” is just bizarre.

I also didn’t like how Jock became a candidate for sainthood after his death (though that happens in real life too). JR even says to his mother at one point when she’s going on about how she doesn’t approve of how he’s running the company that she has no idea about some of the crap Jock pulled. She did know that he had Sam Culver’s uncle institutionalized so he could gain control of his land (and Culver’s uncle died in the institution). And in another episode, some farmer wants revenge against Jock because years  earlier, the farmer refused to sell to Jock, who then bribed the farmer’s customers and bankrupted him. Nice.

Jenna was nothing but a plot device to keep Pam and Bobby apart. Her finest moment is when she lets Bobby go, right before he gets run over by the car. She should have been written out after that.

I thought that writing out Donna was a big mistake given that they were losing Pam at the same time. But I also hated her divorce from Ray and the eventual Ray/Jenna pairing.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I hesitate to say anything here and get beaned, but aside from the opinions about Jenna (who I also loathed), I am the opposite as to Bobby that @AgathaC and @Egg McMuffin have stated.

I loved/love Bobby. I was a Bobby/Pam shipper. Loathed the slimey, lecherous, wife chasing Mark Graison. Bobby had his moments of "getting down in the dirt" as they said. He wasn't portrayed as perfect. But he was to me. I still cry FUGLY tears at his "death" scene.

JR was the opposite of Man Baby. He used any means necessary to get what he wanted, and a few times, did have to pay the consequences; there was nuance. A perfect example of a man baby, who constantly whines is one SonnyMooby Corinthos on General Hospital.

I think I stated it elsewhere, can't remember, that maybe I'm not as irritated or irked at having sons living in the same home as their parents with their families because I come from a culture that has such families.

I love Jock, because he was flawed. I much prefer Bell Geddes' Miss Ellie over Donna Reed's. Donna just totally changed the character in manner, character and dress. Though I do feel bad for at how the brass screwed her over, when she had signed a two year deal. But it was a negotiating tactic, to leverage against Bell Geddes, or that they wouldn't negotiate with her, so they hired Donna.

And I, for one, am among the die hard fans that didn't CARE that season 9 never happened/was a dream. I wanted Bobby back any way I could get him. Even Patrick Duffy stated Larry Hagman HATED that season, and the turn the show took. Hell, I remember a reviewer saying, at the time, everyone "liked/loved each other!" So Boring!

[Egg McMuffin]

Oh, I’m totally with you about Bobby (who I liked a lot despite his enabling JR), Bobby and Pam as a couple, sleazy Mark Graison (aka the Pornstache), and the dream season. I liked Jock too because he was such a complex character.

I guess I should have read Agatha’s post more carefully because I don’t dislike most of the characters. I just agree that they’re flawed.

Edited March 20 by Egg McMuffin

[andromeda331]

I was a Bobby/Pam fan. But my favorite character ended up being Sue Ellen. I didn't like her at first but soon felt bad for her. JR treated her like shit all of the time. She was so miserable. And she had no support from anyone. 

The whole family living together was really weird. Miss Ellie would get so upset anytime someone decided to move out. It was also really weird JR telling someone that he had to be home for dinner because Miss Ellie expected it.  Seriously? He's a grown man. 

I still wonder how Bobby turned out so well after seeing how well JR and Lucy turned out. 

[AgathaC]

13 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

Oh, I’m totally with you about Bobby (who I liked a lot despite his enabling JR), Bobby and Pam as a couple, sleazy Mark Graison (aka the Pornstache), and the dream season. I liked Jock too because he was such a complex character.

I guess I should have read Agatha’s post more carefully because I don’t dislike most of the characters. I just agree that they’re flawed.

I like Bobby just fine — when he’s not enabling JR. I would have liked Jock more if they hadn’t tried to deify him. I just found that annoying.

 

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I was a Bobby/Pam fan. But my favorite character ended up being Sue Ellen. I didn't like her at first but soon felt bad for her. JR treated her like shit all of the time. She was so miserable. And she had no support from anyone. 

The whole family living together was really weird. Miss Ellie would get so upset anytime someone decided to move out. It was also really weird JR telling someone that he had to be home for dinner because Miss Ellie expected it.  Seriously? He's a grown man. 

I still wonder how Bobby turned out so well after seeing how well JR and Lucy turned out. 

I also loved Sue Ellen. JR was so awful to her and the only real support she got was from outsiders. The family paid lip service to “you need to treat her better,” but when it came down to it they believed JR. Watching this time around, I also find myself liking her as a parent (some of the time). She doesn’t spoil John Ross and calls him out when he’s being a little shit.

As for how Bobby turned out well, I think he had some key differences in his upbringing. He was spoiled by Jock, like Lucy, but according to multiple characters, Lucy was also pretty much ignored by everyone. So, spoiled and neglected on an emotional level. Not a good combo. (Plus all the drama around her parents not being there.) At least she grew up to be ok. Not great, but not a nightmare. I usually liked Lucy. I found her funny.

As for JR, he grew up knowing he was neither parents’ favorite, constantly seeking his father’s approval. That can do a number on the psyche.