Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[Celia Rubenstein]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

There is a world of difference between sole custody and primary custody! Having sole custody means that Bethenny has complete say if and when Bryn has any contact with Jason and she can move Bryn out of state without needing his permission. Primary custody means that Jason still gets regular visits with Bryn per court order but only Bethenny has the power to make decisions (medical/school/ect) but she can not move Bryn out of state. Oh, and Bethenny would have to pay child support to Jason if she had primary custody, so there is no need for her to go for sole other than moving Bryn out of state or cutting Jason out of Bryn's life.

I'm sorry to be so blunt but what you are saying is just completely wrong.

If Jason is granted visitation, it doesn't matter what kind of custody Bethenny has.  Jason gets to see Bryn.  Bethenny does not have the right to deny them contact.

And in New York a hearing is held to determine if allowing one parent to move the child out of state is in the child's best interests. Bethenny could not just pack Bryn up and move away if Jason objected no matter what form of custody she has.

And so long as Jason has any kind of visitation with Bryn,  as the party who earns substantially more, it is likely that Bethenny will always have to pay Jason some kind of child support even if it is only a small amount. It makes no difference whether she has primary custody or not. 

Edited March 10, 2018 by Celia Rubenstein

[film noire]

Quote

I know some people consider Jason a gentle saint of a man who always ducks his head at Bethenny's many many blows and is Christlike in accepting his lot

I don't think he's a "gentle saint"  -- they're both assholes  -- but Bryn is doing well in the current custody situation and she shouldn't be used as a weapon in a fight between them as to how they communicate going forward.

Edited March 10, 2018 by film noire

[Jextella]

On 3/8/2018 at 5:46 PM, HunterHunted said:

I've always believed that Jason is no prize because a well-adjusted normal person does not marry or have a child with Bethenny.

 

Love this. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

I don't think he's a "gentle saint"  -- they're both assholes  -- but Bryn is doing well in the current custody situation and she shouldn't be used as a weapon in a fight between them as to how they communicate going forward.

 

I'm not sure I understand how Bryn is being used "as a weapon."  The ongoing fight about how Bethenny and Jason are going to communicate wouldn't exist if it weren't for Bryn. The communications in question are all about her. She really can't be completely excluded from the equation. That doesn't make her a weapon in my opinion, but rather an involved party.

If the issue turns out to be that Bethenny and Jason simply can't agree about anything when it comes to their daughter and one of them needs to be vested with the decision making power, going in front of a judge to make such an arrangement doesn't feel like using Bryn as a weapon to me.  It feels like a reasonable attempt to reduce everyone's stress level and remove Bryn from the center of the storm.

It's not like Jason would be barred from ever seeing Bryn as some kind of punishment. He just might not be able to obstruct things and be verbally abusive, which he shouldn't be doing anyway. 

Edited March 10, 2018 by Celia Rubenstein

[Rap541]

It's not my intent to pile on, Wirewrap, but you're not correct about what sole custody allows in NYS. My sister has sole custody of my niece. Her ex is still allowed visitation and my sister can't refuse him access to his child on his days. She wants to move out of state (to live with my mom and assist said aging parent if it matters) and her ex, who she wasn't even married to, has to agree she can move the neice. Bethenny being awarded sole custody is not Bethenny being give carte blanche to rescind Jason's parental rights. And frankly she may not get any change in the situation anyway

[WireWrap]

4 hours ago, Rap541 said:

So if Jason never says he uses a baysitter, then he CAN use a babysitter and is still St. Jason? Really? Jason can stick the kid with a babysitter every night if he pleases and as long as he never admits it publically, he's not on any hook? While Bethenny, horror of horrors, uses a babysitter/nanny and is therefore a terrible parent for... I'm sorry, when did using a babysitter equal child abuse?

What? That is not what I said! 

4 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

It's not about Bethenny "needing" to control anyone. Bryn is a child. Someone has to make decisions for her. Ideally that would be both her parents, but when parents can't make decisions together, the court often has to award the power to make decisions to the one parent best suited to do the job. Bethenny didn't invent the concept of sole custody, you know ... it exists for a reason.  And the reason is some divorced parents simply cannot work together. Bethenny and Jason are a perfect example.

As far as Jason's rights as a father .... Jason may well have forfeited his right to have a say so in his daughter's life by being a childish, recalcitrant obstructionist who needlessly complicates every situation with unreasonable demands and delays. The judge will decide. Just because he is Bryn's father doesn't mean he gets to make an unnecessary obstacle of himself at every opportunity just to exact revenge or make himself feel powerful.

It may well be Jason's need to be in control that is at the root of the problem, rather than Bethenny's need for control. 

Right now they use a third party for communicating in making decisions concerning Bryn and as far as we know from the court hearing, Bethenny isn't alleging that Jason has refused any of her requests or that this arrangement has put an undue hardship on any of them. What we know is that Bryn is a well adjusted little girl that gets good grades in school. So, this isn't about Bryn, this is all about Bethenny's needs/wants/demands.

3 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I'm sorry to be so blunt but what you are saying is just completely wrong.

If Jason is granted visitation, it doesn't matter what kind of custody Bethenny has.  Jason gets to see Bryn.  Bethenny does not have the right to deny them contact.

And in New York a hearing is held to determine if allowing one parent to move the child out of state is in the child's best interests. Bethenny could not just pack Bryn up and move away if Jason objected no matter what form of custody she has.

And so long as Jason has any kind of visitation with Bryn,  as the party who earns substantially more, it is likely that Bethenny will always have to pay Jason some kind of child support even if it is only a small amount. It makes no difference whether she has primary custody or not. 

I stand corrected but why change the custody arrangement is Bryn is doing great as it is? This is Bethenny's way of controlling/hurting Jason and stripping him of his parental say in his/theirs daughters life and nothing more IMO. Again, it is all about Bethenny and has nothing to do with what's best for Bryn, Period.

2 hours ago, Rap541 said:

It's not my intent to pile on, Wirewrap, but you're not correct about what sole custody allows in NYS. My sister has sole custody of my niece. Her ex is still allowed visitation and my sister can't refuse him access to his child on his days. She wants to move out of state (to live with my mom and assist said aging parent if it matters) and her ex, who she wasn't even married to, has to agree she can move the neice. Bethenny being awarded sole custody is not Bethenny being give carte blanche to rescind Jason's parental rights. And frankly she may not get any change in the situation anyway

Yes, it does affect his parental rights. If Bethenny succeeds in this, she is the only one to have a say in Bryn's life, be it medical decisions, schooling, ect. 

[RedDelicious]

I've always liked Jason and I 100% believe Bethenny used him to have a child. I do think he loved her but she's incapable of the compromise and partnership that characterizes a healthy relationship.

Edited March 11, 2018 by RedDelicious

[film noire]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

If Bethenny succeeds in this, she is the only one to have a say in Bryn's life, be it medical decisions, schooling, ect. 

And religion --  she/her lawyer accused Hoppy (in court) of mocking her " newfound Judaism" so if Frankel wins sole custody and wants to bar Bryn from Christmas Eve Mass and Easter Sunday with Jason and his family due to religious reasons,  she can.  

And (if I undersand it correctly) visitation is not a given when a judge agrees to deprive a parent of joint custody, as the reasons can be very serious (domestic violence, abuse, gambling, the child being physically neglected, etc)  Visitation is hammered out depending on the severity of the reason parental joint custody was removed.

Quote

What? That is not what I said! 

Reminds me of last summer, WW   ; )

Edited March 11, 2018 by film noire

[Celia Rubenstein]

25 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Right now they use a third party for communicating in making decisions concerning Bryn

When was it established they use a third party for communications? I know it was suggested here as being a good idea, but I don't recall it ever being confirmed as actually happening.

 

32 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

... and as far as we know from the court hearing, Bethenny isn't alleging that Jason has refused any of her requests or that this arrangement has put an undue hardship on any of them. What we know is that Bryn is a well adjusted little girl that gets good grades in school. So, this isn't about Bryn, this is all about Bethenny's needs/wants/demands.

 

Were Bethenny's filings read aloud in court? Are they available to read somewhere? 

Because without knowing what they contain, we actually don't know anything about what Bethenny has alleged or not alleged. Just because certain aspects of the case were not reported in a Page Six article about a hearing doesn't mean they don't exist. 

The Page Six article really gives very little indication what the change of custody request is based on. But there has to be something, some reason given  .... you don't just walk into court and demand a change of custody without offering some kind of justification for it. It may pertain to how something is effecting Bryn, it may be about Jason being difficult, it may have something to do with the circumstances of Bethenny's life.

We simply do not know at this point and to assert otherwise is to guess and assume.

[One Tough Cookie]

I hate that both of them have put Bryn thru this.  She's going to remember her childhood as a battleground. They both suck it big time.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

I think it is insufferable cruelty to put Bryn thru more custody turmoil.  Jason and Bethenny both need to dig deeper to work together to co parent,  the end game is for Bryn. She is priceless and #1. Let her be a little girl who doesn't have to sway to parent priorities.  

People who have nothing to hide,  hide nothing. Jason had nothing to hide in my opinion. He'll come out ok. What B is doing is needless. 

I feel like it is about money. Bethenny wants to use Bryn for more of it on TV and ads and for SG branding, child acting etc  imagine the gold mine.  Jason is using Bryn for money also because he doesn't need the child support  $ he makes enough to comfortably raise her upper middle class even by NYC standards . He wants the child support because he knows it hits Bethenny where it hurts because she is heartless and damaged and deranged and only money keeps her warm and secure.  If Jason said I will give up child support Bethenny would drop trying for sole. But he never will because he wants to hurt her where she will feel it. And Bethenny will always clamor for more more more  $$$ because of her abandonment issues even if it means Bryn goes on a SG stage. 

Jason for me has on his side that he doesn't air his side of the story like she hangs it all out there on TV.  She is shit for doing that. 

They need a mediator and a 3rd party. 

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

When was it established they use a third party for communications? I know it was suggested here as being a good idea, but I don't recall it ever being confirmed as actually happening.

 

Were Bethenny's filings read aloud in court? Are they available to read somewhere? 

Because without knowing what they contain, we actually don't know anything about what Bethenny has alleged or not alleged. Just because certain aspects of the case were not reported in a Page Six article about a hearing doesn't mean they don't exist. 

The Page Six article really gives very little indication what the change of custody request is based on. But there has to be something, some reason given  .... you don't just walk into court and demand a change of custody without offering some kind of justification for it. It may pertain to how something is effecting Bryn, it may be about Jason being difficult, it may have something to do with the circumstances of Bethenny's life.

We simply do not know at this point and to assert otherwise is to guess and assume.

As I said in the post you quoted " as far as we know from the court hearing,"! All of us here posting are discussing this from what we have read in the Page Six article as none of us actually know Bethenny and/or Jason IRL. 

[gundysgirl]

On 3/9/2018 at 3:48 PM, WireWrap said:

And Bethenny didn't just file for "primary" custody of Bryn, she filed for "sole" custody and if she gets it, she will cut Jason out of Bryn's life. Again, this is all about Bethenny's wants/needs and nothing about what is best for Bryn.

Maybe she thinks this is the best thing for Bryn. I know I would in her situation. 

[gundysgirl]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

When was it established they use a third party for communications? I know it was suggested here as being a good idea, but I don't recall it ever being confirmed as actually happening.

 

Were Bethenny's filings read aloud in court? Are they available to read somewhere? 

Because without knowing what they contain, we actually don't know anything about what Bethenny has alleged or not alleged. Just because certain aspects of the case were not reported in a Page Six article about a hearing doesn't mean they don't exist. 

The Page Six article really gives very little indication what the change of custody request is based on. But there has to be something, some reason given  .... you don't just walk into court and demand a change of custody without offering some kind of justification for it. It may pertain to how something is effecting Bryn, it may be about Jason being difficult, it may have something to do with the circumstances of Bethenny's life.

We simply do not know at this point and to assert otherwise is to guess and assume.

Exactly. And if there were no justification given, then one would assume the judge would have ruled rather quickly and easily. Didn't the Judge say she wasn't changing custody for now? Why even ponder it if Bethenny presented nothing? 

[Rap541]

Quote

I stand corrected but why change the custody arrangement is Bryn is doing great as it is?

Because Brynn is not actually the only person who matters in this dynamic. Thats number one. There's three people involved. Jason, Bethenny, and Brynn.  Brynn is likely just becoming aware that a lot of her friends don't live the way she does, and she's probably noticing how angry her parents are. That will only get worse. Likewise Bethenny AND Jason are likely stressed out most of the time since they despise each other and have to discuss all sorts of normally easy decisions that lead to endless arguments. From a mental health standpoint, it might be best for everyone. Raising a child is not supposed to be a miserable experience. 

Second, Brynn is getting older and they're currently what, exchanging her every three to four days? I was lucky that my parents didn't divorce but I had friends who lived this schedule and it's pretty hard even when mom and dad get along. 

Quote

And (if I undersand it correctly) visitation is not a given when a judge agrees to deprive a parent of joint custody, as the reasons can be very serious (domestic violence, abuse, gambling, the child being physically neglected, etc)  Visitation is hammered out depending on the severity of the reason parental joint custody was removed.

While I do think the point has been made that no one really knows the details here, the main reason cited for Bethenny's move is the inability of either side to communicate or make decisions. So if *that* is the main reason and Bethenny gets sole custody, its extremely unlikely Jason would lose visitation. And if Bethenny managed to prove domestic violence, abuse, gambling, the child being physically neglected... I really trust no one is going to argue Jason still needs to see his daughter?

I suppose at the end of the day it's hard to get terribly worked up because this is rich people's problems. If Bethenny did get sole custody, what's the worst that happens? I don't like Bethenny as a person but I really don't get the impression she's abusive or unloving to her child. Likewise Jason and the same scenario. Trust me when I say Brynn's parents are not the worst out there. 

[WireWrap]

33 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

Because Brynn is not actually the only person who matters in this dynamic. Thats number one. There's three people involved. Jason, Bethenny, and Brynn.  Brynn is likely just becoming aware that a lot of her friends don't live the way she does, and she's probably noticing how angry her parents are. That will only get worse. Likewise Bethenny AND Jason are likely stressed out most of the time since they despise each other and have to discuss all sorts of normally easy decisions that lead to endless arguments. From a mental health standpoint, it might be best for everyone. Raising a child is not supposed to be a miserable experience. 

Second, Brynn is getting older and they're currently what, exchanging her every three to four days? I was lucky that my parents didn't divorce but I had friends who lived this schedule and it's pretty hard even when mom and dad get along. 

While I do think the point has been made that no one really knows the details here, the main reason cited for Bethenny's move is the inability of either side to communicate or make decisions. So if *that* is the main reason and Bethenny gets sole custody, its extremely unlikely Jason would lose visitation. And if Bethenny managed to prove domestic violence, abuse, gambling, the child being physically neglected... I really trust no one is going to argue Jason still needs to see his daughter?

I suppose at the end of the day it's hard to get terribly worked up because this is rich people's problems. If Bethenny did get sole custody, what's the worst that happens? I don't like Bethenny as a person but I really don't get the impression she's abusive or unloving to her child. Likewise Jason and the same scenario. Trust me when I say Brynn's parents are not the worst out there. 

True, this isn't just about Bryn, it is also about Bethenny AND Jason, not just 1 parent, but both of them. 

Custody arrangements are hard no matter what, be it 50/50 or 1 getting every other weekend, it is difficult on all of them.

Again, so far, there has been no indication that Jason abuses/neglects Bryn, had any of that been happening, Bethenny would have had him arrested for it and/or at the very least, mentioned that in her petition for sole custody, which she did not. If either is harming that child, in any way, they should lose the right to be near her at all (be it Jason OR Bethenny).

[film noire]

47 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

the main reason cited for Bethenny's move is the inability of either side to communicate or make decisions.

I think her lawyer citing "the stalking" is a  strong indication that Frankel's desire is to severely limit Jason Hoppy's presence in his daughter's life, and not an indication of willingness to help her daugher continue to bond with her father.

Edited March 11, 2018 by film noire

[zoeysmom]

I am going to hazard a wild guess here that Bethenny's moving papers contained nothing about Bryn.   Hoppy’s lawyer, Robert Wallack, argued that in all the court papers there hadn’t been a single mention of the 7-year-old.  I do think the judge read the papers so it would be foolhardy for Jaosn's attorney to assert anything else.

On the surface it appears, as had been predicted by many last January, that Bethenny would use the stalking charges against Jason in a custody battle.  I see a couple of problems for almost 18 months (by the time this go back to court) if Jason has not contacted Bethenny, the point would seem moot.  

As to the mention of Bethenny's new found Jewish faith, Bethenny argued at the last custody hearing the parties had agreed to not practice a religion with the child.  I would have nothing against Bryn learning and being exposed to both faiths but just a little note-Bethenny may want to stop with all the Christmas celebrating.  The tree, the gifts, the ornaments, the gifts, the Santa references.  I think Bethenny may have been under the influence of Dennis and decided to push her new found Jewish faith- I wonder where she stands now that Dennis is not in the picture.  She was born Jewish so it isn't really new found but I don't think she ever practiced as her mother married a Catholic.  It reminded me of Bethenny claiming Jason agreed to a vegetarian diet- next thing you know Bryn is the inspiration for Bethenny developing a Skinnygirl lunch meat line-including ham.   

I think Jason and Bethenny may need to adopt the Grammer style of parenting-"parallel parenting".  Kelsey has not spoken to Camille in years and contends he will not.  They use a third party to convey the issues about the children.  Bethenny has already stated that any future with Jason is zero contact.  

[Rap541]

Well, maybe if Jason hadn't sent her hundreds of emails in a short period of time, to where there was actually a restraining order, then Bethenny wouldn't have any ammunition. But he did, so now he can't point to his perfectly clean hands. Sometimes actions have consequences. 

Mind you, I personally am not convinced that's enough for her to win this go-around.  But his own actions aren't helping him. 

[Mrs peel]

On 3/9/2018 at 5:59 PM, film noire said:

I agree -- I guess the only bright spot is that Bryn is doing so well, Frankel couldn't find any custody issues regarding Bryn's emotional/physical situation, so Frankel had to make it about how she and Hoppy communicate with each other. (Which they absolutely need to resolve as parents going forward,  but not at the expense of putting Bryn through another custody fight.) 

 

And for me this is the down side. When joint custody started, a number of times people avoided it (and the primary point of “joint custody is shared decision making, as opposed to one parent having NO input in the decision making) by claiming the 2 parents couldn’t get along well enough to make decisions together.  The one parent who tried to make it work was undermined by the jerk who refused to cooperate.  Lucky that doesn’t happen as much these days.

sole custody, if B gets it, doesn’t mean Jason will have no involvement in Bryn’s life.  He would likely still have ample visitation rights.  But he wouldn’t be involved in decisions like school choice, religion, doctors, etc.  It’s VERY difficult to stop visitation completely, or require supervised visitation.  That the parents can’t get along ( lol, they got divorced, obviously they don’t get along!) isn’t what supervised visitation about - it’s about danger to the child.

Now the standard of proof in a divorce court is different from criminal court, so to possible the judge won’t just look at the fact the charges were dropped re these emails.  But Jason will be able to bring in B’s responses or failure to respond ( to reasonable requests).  

The custody evaluation is pretty standard.  Very useful for the court that it’s the same person as before.  It’s as much about the parents and their interaction with the child as an eval of the child herself.  The psychologist is usually pretty experienced in these kind of things, and it’s not usually de vastating for the child.  Obviously Brynn is far too young for anyone to ask her where she wants to live.

on the hearing report, how does someone decide Jason “angrily” drank the water?  Sounds over the top as a description to me.  Heck, do the NY courts allow folks to bring bottled water into the building at all?  

For those who say Jason isn’t “normal” because he had a child with B, didn’t she get pregnant pretty quickly?  I doubt either of them realized much about the other before their lives were dramatically changed by the pregnancy.  They both at least tried to make it work, perhaps it was always a relationship that would have ended, but far earlier had B not gotten pregnant.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Mrs peel
Darned auto-correct!

[jumper sage]

On 3/9/2018 at 11:14 AM, Celia Rubenstein said:

The judge simply wants a professional, unbiased assessment of the girl in order to determine what is in her best interests.

I am all for it and did go through it when my parents divorced.  Apparently our dad gave full custody to our mom and didn't fight any financial arrangement and did not want any visitation in a legal sense.  We three saw a professional and had our own attorney but it lasted all of 1 meeting with each of them for we told them our dad was an alcoholic and didn't even like kids so my dad was doing the right thing.  Judge agreed.

14 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I think Jason and Bethenny may need to adopt the Grammer style of parenting-"parallel parenting".

I agree.

1 hour ago, Rap541 said:

Second, Brynn is getting older and they're currently what, exchanging her every three to four days? I was lucky that my parents didn't divorce but I had friends who lived this schedule and it's pretty hard even when mom and dad get along. 

My mom moved 7 houses away from our dad and we could go back and forth as we pleased.  We started out going over there for dinner, he could afford better food, and we did that 3 times a week and nothing else.  His mother lived about a mile away and could see us anytime she wanted and took us often on vacation with her.  I have friends who did the "kids live in the house and parents come and go" so the kids aren't moved around.  This kind of arrangement takes money and respect.  I don't see that happening for Bryn.

Note:  My parents got along and became friends.  My mom just had no idea that her husband couldn't stand kids.  It was better all the way around.

[BBHN]

Quote

I do think he loved her

I think he might have loved her money more.

Quote

Jason is using Bryn for money also because he doesn't need the child support  $ he makes enough to comfortably raise her upper middle class even by NYC standards

Apparently, he doesn't even make enough to cover his own dry cleaning.

Quote

Jason for me has on his side that he doesn't air his side of the story like she hangs it all out there on TV. 

He airs it via the "anonymous sources/sources close to" route instead, I presume.

Edited March 11, 2018 by BBHN

[Celia Rubenstein]

..

 

11 hours ago, WireWrap said:

As I said in the post you quoted " as far as we know from the court hearing,"! All of us here posting are discussing this from what we have read in the Page Six article as none of us actually know Bethenny and/or Jason IRL. 

I emphasized the unknown nature of Bethenny's petition because qualifiers such as "what we know from court" seem to be getting lost among numerous posts asserting speculation as fact. The beliefs expressed in such posts can quickly become the narrative even though they're nothing more than opinion.
 

11 hours ago, gundysgirl said:

Exactly. And if there were no justification given, then one would assume the judge would have ruled rather quickly and easily. Didn't the Judge say she wasn't changing custody for now? Why even ponder it if Bethenny presented nothing? 

Yes ... and if there was enough presented in the petition for the judge to decide psych evals were warranted, there is obviously more to Bethenny's allegations than what the Page Six article suggested. 

 

10 hours ago, film noire said:

I think her lawyer citing "the stalking" is a  strong indication that Frankel's desire is to severely limit Jason Hoppy's presence in his daughter's life, and not an indication of willingness to help her daugher continue to bond with her father.

 

It think Jason's stalking behavior was cited to emphasize to the judge that Hoppy has a well established history of making communications with Bethenny personal and hostile. This supports the (potential) argument that Jason is an unreasonable father who is now abusing his right to communicate with Bethenny about decisions regarding Bryn in order to vent his anger now that he has been muzzled when it comes to attacking her directly as a result of his arrest for stalking.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Celia Rubenstein

[film noire]

6 hours ago, gundysgirl said:

Maybe she thinks this is the best thing for Bryn. I know I would in her situation. 

I don't think it's ever the "best thing" for a child to be deprived of a non-abusive father (no matter how much the mother hates him).

4 hours ago, Rap541 said:

Then Bethenny wouldn't have any ammunition.

She can try to use it as ammunition -- and call it stalking all she wants -  but Hoppy didn't plead guilty, the case will be dismissed by April 20th, and his record is pristine -- so the word "stalking" does not apply. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by film noire

[SuprSuprElevated]

13 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

I've always liked Jason and I 100% believe Bethenny used him to have a child. I do think he loved her but she's incapable of the compromise and partnership that characterizes a healthy relationship.

I need to push back on this.  I'm no fangirl of Beth, but this appears to be a woman who would have zero issues with using a sperm bank to father her child.  I've never bought into the "used him to have a kid" theory.  Just my opinion.

[BBHN]

Quite a few people do believe they probably wouldn't have gotten married if she hadn't been knocked up.

Granted, I don't remember what came first, their engagement or her being pregnant.

[SuprSuprElevated]

5 minutes ago, BBHN said:

Quite a few people do believe they probably wouldn't have gotten married if she hadn't been knocked up.

Granted, I don't remember what came first, their engagement or her being pregnant.

At the time of their courtship/wedding, I was a believer that they were mutually in lurve.  If they were in agreement about having kids in the future, then I would imagine birth control was not being used.  I think the wedding was probably sped up considering the dead rabbit, even though she practically leaked down the aisle.  For me, the fatal blow to this union was his employment with her business.  They both should have been smarter than that.  I don't believe for a moment that he has been well behaved throughout the madness, but considering what I see from BF when she knows people are watching, I don't see how their relationship could have ended any other way.

Or, ^^this^^ is all just naivete.   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

8 hours ago, BBHN said:

I think he might have loved her money more.

Apparently, he doesn't even make enough to cover his own dry cleaning.

He airs it via the "anonymous sources/sources close to" route instead, I presume.

He is hurting her where she will feel it. Not condoning that, just saying. Money is just paper she would do better to write the check with no emotion attached . It's only money . Bryn is everything. 

Source on the "anonymous souces"? That is conjecture that he participated in those tactics.  Bethenny's own words that viewers have watched are a fact. 

[BBHN]

Quote

He is hurting her where she will feel it. Not condoning that, just saying. Money is just paper she would do better to write the check with no emotion attached . It's only money . Bryn is everything. 

It's only money? Doesn't that go both ways? You make it sound like he is using his daughter to score as much coins as he can off of Bethenny...

True, Bryn is everything, but Bethenny doesn't owe that freeloader a cent more than he is owed.

Quote

Source on the "anonymous souces"? That is conjecture that he participated in those tactics.  Bethenny's own words that viewers have watched are a fact. 

Of course it is conjecture, which is why I said "I presume". To me it just makes sense logically that he or his team is behind those anonymous sources.

Edited March 11, 2018 by BBHN

[Celia Rubenstein]

5 hours ago, film noire said:

I don't think it's ever the "best thing" for a child to be deprived of a non-abusive father (no matter how much the mother hates him).

There has been no indication whatsoever that Bethenny intends to block Bryn from seeing her father. No allegations of abuse or neglect or anything that would justify the court limiting visitation. Zero.

 

5 hours ago, film noire said:

She can try to use it as ammunition -- and call it stalking all she wants -  but Hoppy didn't plead guilty, the case will be dismissed by April 20th, and his record is pristine -- so the word "stalking" does not apply. 

Jason was arrested for stalking. What he did was stalking. He may not have a formal conviction for stalking on his record, but everyone knows damn well the guy is a stalker. 

Unfortunately for Jason, he doesn't get to have his behavior judged in a vacuum in this case. It will be judged in context with everything else that is known about him. Including the fact that he has a history of taking advantage of the contact he has with his ex due to them sharing a daughter to express his rage. And it is absolutely relevant if he is continuing to make communication difficult now just to be a pain in the ass. 

Dismissed case or not, Jason's past behavior is what it is and he will never really escape it. And that's 100% on him. 

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

18 minutes ago, BBHN said:

It's only money? Doesn't that go both ways? You make it sound like he is using his daughter to score as much coins as he can off of Bethenny...

True, Bryn is everything, but Bethenny doesn't owe that freeloader a cent more than he is owed.

Of course it is conjecture, which is why I said "I presume". 

I agree with you it does go both ways I don't think he is doing it for the coin, he is doing it for the vessel that will hurt her. She has no feelings for anything other than security and money due to her childhood stuff. 

I missed the I presume, got it ! 

[snarts]

Quote

There has been no indication whatsoever that Bethenny intends to block Bryn from seeing her father. No allegations of abuse or neglect or anything that would justify the court limiting visitation. Zero.

Bethenny is asking the court for the legal authority to make all decisions for Bryn, including how often her father can see her. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

Bethenny may be asking for the legal right to make decisions for Bryn, but she won't ever be empowered to decide how often Jason can see Bryn.

The parents are never the ones who make decisions about visitation. The court does. For obvious reasons. 

[snarts]

Quote

Bethenny may be asking for the legal right to make decisions for Bryn, but she won't ever be empowered to decide how often Jason can see Bryn.

The parents are never the ones who make decisions about visitation. The court does. For obvious reasons. 

Not true.  If Bethenny is awarded sole & primary custody, she can move Bryn anywhere without petitioning the court.  Which, IMHO, is her end game.  

She's an utterly selfish twat who really shouldn't have procreated with anyone.

Edited March 11, 2018 by snarts
grammar

[SweetieDarling]

9 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Yes ... and if there was enough presented in the petition for the judge to decide psych evals were warranted, there is obviously more to Bethenny's allegations than what the Page Six article suggested. 

To be honest, at this point I'm surprised the judge hasn't ordered Bethenney and Jason to have pscyh evals. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

I recall reading about Roseanne, after having divorced her 3rd (?) husband, the one she had the kid with while her show was still airing.  Anyway, she wanted to move to or live in Hawaii full-time, and had to pay her ex's travel expenses to come to Hawaii to have visitation with the kid, I believe once every month.  Don't know if it was court-ordered or if they agreed to it outside of court.  I also remember when she petitioned the court at some point after, to be able to stop paying these expenses for some reason.  

Edited March 11, 2018 by SuprSuprElevated

[Rap541]

Quote

Not true.  If Bethenny is awarded sole & primary custody, she can move Bryn anywhere without petitioning the court.  Which, IMHO, is her end game.  

No, in New York State, even if she has sole custody, she can't move Brynn out of state without getting the all clear from the court. If she gains sole custody, she can not restrict visitation without going to court and asking for visitation to be restricted or ended and her having sole custody does not make these requests slam dunks in her favor. Sole custody does not mean one parent can take the child and never let the other parent see the child. I think this has been explained a few times now.

The only way Bethenny can effect "Jason never gets to see Brynn again" legally is by getting his parental rights terminated and Jason isn't in prison for murdering children so thats never going to happen.

[Celia Rubenstein]

27 minutes ago, snarts said:

Not true.  If Bethenny is awarded sole & primary custody, she can move Bryn anywhere without petitioning the court.  Which, IMHO, is her end game.  

A court would have to give Bethenny permission to move Bryn out of state if Jason wouldn't agree.  A hearing on what is in the best interest of the child would be conducted and a ruling would be made.  She could not just pick up and leave with Bryn no matter what level of custody she has. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

28 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

To be honest, at this point I'm surprised the judge hasn't ordered Bethenney and Jason to have pscyh evals. 

One of the articles linked did say that the judge has ordered forensic evaluations of both Bethenny and Jason (separately, while with Bryn) to get an idea of how they interact with her. So we're getting close, lol

That's kind of a scary thought, having your whole relationship with your child judged by some shrink who watches you for an hour while you are under the most pressure imaginable. I would think the whole exercise would so stilted it would be virtually meaningless, but I guess it's done all the time ...

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

20 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

No, in New York State, even if she has sole custody, she can't move Brynn out of state without getting the all clear from the court. If she gains sole custody, she can not restrict visitation without going to court and asking for visitation to be restricted or ended and her having sole custody does not make these requests slam dunks in her favor. Sole custody does not mean one parent can take the child and never let the other parent see the child. I think this has been explained a few times now.

 

What then since you have knowledge in this state  is the major upper hand of being granted sole custody in NY? Financial ? Decision making (medical, extra curricular activities etc) ??

[QuinnM]

5 minutes ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

What then since you have knowledge in this state  is the major upper hand of being granted sole custody in NY? Financial ? Decision making (medical, extra curricular activities etc) ??

I know a number of sole custodians so there are about 5 other states where this is also true.  There is some ‘upper hand’ to sole custody.  But visitation is not one of them.   I think this might be some kind of urban myth.  The other urban myth is that there a legal requirement for grandparents visitation.  Although each state has their own laws there is a common thread.  The fun starts when someone manages to get one ruling in one state that contradicts a ruling the other parent got in another state.  For that reason the arrangements where a child moves to another state has all kinds of riders about future rulings on custody.  That I know from two people.

So life experience teaches one a lot about the laws.  But I have NEVER heard of a sole custodian being able to deny visitation.  I have watched sole custodians be extremely rigid about the visitation.  Like sorry your girlfriend has a free trip to Hawaii but no you can’t have the kids for a week.  You have Th-Sun.  So there is that.

[Celia Rubenstein]

8 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

So life experience teaches one a lot about the laws.  But I have NEVER heard of a sole custodian being able to deny visitation.

Often sole custody has to be awarded because the parents are completely at odds and can't stand each other and just cannot work together at all.  Imagine how many people would be totally cut off from their kids if the parent who had sole custody could call the shots about visitation. 

It's obvious why you can't vest the authority to decide about contact - or moving out of state - in either parent in such situations. It is rightly the responsibility of the court, basing a decision on what is in the child's best interest. 

[WireWrap]

3 hours ago, BBHN said:

Quite a few people do believe they probably wouldn't have gotten married if she hadn't been knocked up.

Granted, I don't remember what came first, their engagement or her being pregnant.

She was pregnant before they got engaged.

2 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

At the time of their courtship/wedding, I was a believer that they were mutually in lurve.  If they were in agreement about having kids in the future, then I would imagine birth control was not being used.  I think the wedding was probably sped up considering the dead rabbit, even though she practically leaked down the aisle.  For me, the fatal blow to this union was his employment with her business.  They both should have been smarter than that.  I don't believe for a moment that he has been well behaved throughout the madness, but considering what I see from BF when she knows people are watching, I don't see how their relationship could have ended any other way.

Or, ^^this^^ is all just naivete.   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Bethenny has said, several times, that she had major doubts before the wedding, that she didn't want to go through with it but felt pressured (by Andy/Bravo/production) to go through with the wedding. She may have "loved" Jason but she wasn't "In love" with him. Their marriage began to crumble not long after Bryn was born, she had what she always wanted, a baby and the final blow came when he refused to move to California like she wanted, IMO.

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

There has been no indication whatsoever that Bethenny intends to block Bryn from seeing her father. No allegations of abuse or neglect or anything that would justify the court limiting visitation. Zero.

 

Jason was arrested for stalking. What he did was stalking. He may not have a formal conviction for stalking on his record, but everyone knows damn well the guy is a stalker. 

Unfortunately for Jason, he doesn't get to have his behavior judged in a vacuum in this case. It will be judged in context with everything else that is known about him. Including the fact that he has a history of taking advantage of the contact he has with his ex due to them sharing a daughter to express his rage. And it is absolutely relevant if he is continuing to make communication difficult now just to be a pain in the ass. 

Dismissed case or not, Jason's past behavior is what it is and he will never really escape it. And that's 100% on him. 

There is every indication that Bethenny intends to block Jason from parts of Bryn's life, she is trying to remove his legal ability to have a legal say/decision making about their daughters life. If there are no allegations of abuse/neglect that would limit his visitation then there isn't any reason to remove his parental say so either. 

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

22 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

 

Bethenny has said, several times, that she had major doubts before the wedding, that she didn't want to go through with it but felt pressured (by Andy/Bravo/production) to go through with the wedding. 

? #eyeroll it’s always someone else’s fault with her, never hers.... 

[Celia Rubenstein]

34 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

If there are no allegations of abuse/neglect that would limit his visitation then there isn't any reason to remove his parental say so either. 

You are of course free to hold that opinion, but the law allows for removing parental "say so" without abuse or neglect being proven. 

It's because of cases where the parents simply cannot agree about anything with regard to their child. When serious decisions need to be made about a child's healthcare or education or religious training, what is supposed to happen? The court doesn't want you running in and filing papers every time there is a dispute. Eventually in such cases, when one party forces the issue by asking for sole legal custody, the court may decide vesting the power of parental "say so" in one party is necessary.  It really is basically a practical consideration.

The threat of being on the losing end of such a ruling is often incentive to learn to compromise.  Unfortunately that appears to have not been the case with Bethenny and Jason. 

[Rap541]

Quote

If there are no allegations of abuse/neglect that would limit his visitation then there isn't any reason to remove his parental say so either. 

Actually Celia Rubenstein has given a very succinct explanation of why sole custody might be granted in a non abuse case - a few times I think.

Quote

Often sole custody has to be awarded because the parents are completely at odds and can't stand each other and just cannot work together at all.  Imagine how many people would be totally cut off from their kids if the parent who had sole custody could call the shots about visitation. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

she didn't want to go through with it but felt pressured (by Andy/Bravo/production) to go through with the wedding

No sale.

[WireWrap]

3 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

You are of course free to hold that opinion, but the law allows for removing parental "say so" without abuse or neglect being proven. 

It's because of cases where the parents simply cannot agree about anything with regard to their child. When serious decisions need to be made about a child's healthcare or education or religious training, what is supposed to happen? The court doesn't want you running in and filing papers every time there is a dispute. Eventually in such cases, when one party forces the issue by asking for sole legal custody, the court may decide vesting the power of parental "say so" in one party is necessary.  It really is basically a practical consideration.

The threat of being on the losing end of such a ruling is often incentive to learn to compromise.  Unfortunately that appears to have not been the case with Bethenny and Jason. 

It is ridiculous to lose your right to have a say just because 1 parent doesn't want to hear your opinion, be it Jason or Bethenny. Both of them need to grow up, not just Jason but Bethenny as well. Keep communications going through an impartial 3rd party and put the child's needs before your own. And Yes, I do believe that if Jason loses his say so concerning Bryn, not only does he lose but so does Bryn. As far as I am concerned, Jason would be better off with sole custody, at least he will keep Bryn off camera and out of Bethenny's business ads./promotions. I think it time the judge scares her with giving him sole custody to wake her up. 

1 hour ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

No sale.

Her explanation, not mine! LOL That said, I agree with you, it is BS but then again, I really don't think she wanted to get married but did so for ratings for her show. And, Yes, I do think she is that base/selfish.

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 minute ago, WireWrap said:

It is ridiculous to lose your right to have a say just because 1 parent doesn't want to hear your opinion, be it Jason or Bethenny. Both of them need to grow up, not just Jason but Bethenny as well. Keep communications going through an impartial 3rd party and put the child's needs before your own. And Yes, I do believe that if Jason loses his say so concerning Bryn, not only does he lose but so does Bryn. As far as I am concerned, Jason would be better off with sole custody, at least he will keep Bryn off camera and out of Bethenny's business ads./promotions. I think it time the judge scares her with giving him sole custody to wake her up. 

Her explanation, not mine! LOL That said, I agree with you, it is BS but then again, I really don't think she wanted to get married but did so for ratings for her show. And, Yes, I do think she is that base/selfish.

If, and that's a big IF for me, she got married to a man she purportedly didn't want to marry, while pregnant with his kid for ratings/PR, then her issues go beyond Mommy/Daddy issues.  That's dipping a toe/foot/leg into the pool of sociopathy.

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

If, and that's a big IF for me, she got married to a man she purportedly didn't want to marry, while pregnant with his kid for ratings/PR, then her issues go beyond Mommy/Daddy issues.  That's dipping a toe/foot/leg into the pool of sociopathy.

There you have it! IMO, Bethenny only cares about herself/her money/her business. That's it.