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Future of Movie Stars: Who Will Shine? Who Will Fade Away?


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As for Channing Tatum- hey! Channing deserves every bit of his success. You can't deny that the guy made it where he is due to a ton of hard work, paying his dues by taking whatever he could take, and being a nice, likeable guy who realizes he's not the best actor around but wants to be better so he tries to learn from being in movies with better actors. He was chugging along in the industry for a good 10 years before he exploded in 2012.

 

I wouldn't normally care about Tatum, despite thinking he's a lousy actor. Let's face it, there's no shortage of them in Hollywood either, and if he manages to get enough people in his corner to get past his limitations, fair play. But he's slated to play one of my favourite comic book characters, Gambit, and it's incredibly annoying to me that I might get to see him finally done justice in a movie, only to have it ruined by an actor who's not up to the job. Not unlike what happened to Judge Dredd when Stallone tried to murder the character.

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I respectfully disagree. I believe that Channing Tatum is very talented-and apparently, Quentin Tarentino & the Coen Brothers do too, otherwise they wouldn't use him in their upcoming projects. As for Tatum's playing Gambit, I think that a lot depends on script and direction. I believe that if both those things are right, then so will the performance.

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I wouldn't normally care about Tatum, despite thinking he's a lousy actor. Let's face it, there's no shortage of them in Hollywood either, and if he manages to get enough people in his corner to get past his limitations, fair play. But he's slated to play one of my favourite comic book characters, Gambit, and it's incredibly annoying to me that I might get to see him finally done justice in a movie, only to have it ruined by an actor who's not up to the job. Not unlike what happened to Judge Dredd when Stallone tried to murder the character.

 

Someone was griping to me about Tatum being cast as Gambit, which only makes me wonder if Taylor Kitsch would be preferred. Considering that John Carter flopped when it didn't really deserve to, maybe Channing would have been able to make something of it.

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I was watching Inglorious Basterds and thought Daniel Brühl has been getting some international attention recently what with (some say) being snubbed for the Oscar for Rush. He's got a decently packed schedule and is a versatile actor much like Christoph Waltz -- he speaks even more languages fluently (more than four!) and is a bit racially ambiguous enough (I mean it helps)  to pull off a great many nationalities if he needed to. 

Edited by JustaPerson
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I respectfully disagree. I believe that Channing Tatum is very talented-and apparently, Quentin Tarentino & the Coen Brothers do too, otherwise they wouldn't use him in their upcoming projects. As for Tatum's playing Gambit, I think that a lot depends on script and direction. I believe that if both those things are right, then so will the performance.

 

Good directors cast lousy actors all the time. That's nothing new. And there will always be some lousy actors who have good careers because they're easy to work with, which seems to be Tatum's biggest positive. 

 

Someone was griping to me about Tatum being cast as Gambit, which only makes me wonder if Taylor Kitsch would be preferred. Considering that John Carter flopped when it didn't really deserve to, maybe Channing would have been able to make something of it.

 

 

Kitsch did what he could with John Carter, but anyone who has watched Friday Night Lights would tell you that he's at his best when he's allowed to be more carefree and goofy, rather than brooding and sullen. He didn't do a bad job of being the sullen, moody Tim Riggins in the first season, but his personality was big enough to do more, and the show's writers realised that.

 

For what it's worth, I don't think that's a bad movie, but it was scuppered by lack of studio support, an uninspiring title and general audience apathy.

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Good directors cast lousy actors all the time. That's nothing new. And there will always be some lousy actors who have good careers because they're easy to work with, which seems to be Tatum's biggest positive.

 

 Again respectfully disagreeing.  While there are lots of lousy actors in the business, because of  A Guide To Recognizing Your Saints, Stop-Loss, Foxcatcher  and possibly The Hateful 8 & Hail, Caesar!, I don't believe that Channing Tatum is one of them. 

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 Again respectfully disagreeing.  While there are lots of lousy actors in the business, because of  A Guide To Recognizing Your Saints, Stop-Loss, Foxcatcher  and possibly The Hateful 8 & Hail, Caesar!, I don't believe that Channing Tatum is one of them. 

 

Yeah, I've seen a few of his movies, and thought he was pretty terrible in all of them. I've actively sought them out because I want to like him (due to the aforesaid problem of him playing my favourite comic book character), but I just think he's bad. Anyway that's not what this thread is about, because as bad as I think he is, he clearly has a bright career ahead of him.

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21 Jump Street was enough to convince me. He went all-in for that, and I'd have never thought he had it in him to be that hilarious.

 

The scene where he finds out Jonah Hill's character slept with the captain played by Ice Cube's daughter is probably the funniest I've seen in a movie in a while.

 

 

Good directors cast lousy actors all the time. That's nothing new. And there will always be some lousy actors who have good careers because they're easy to work with, which seems to be Tatum's biggest positive.

 

That reminds me of this Charlie Sheen quote from the early 90s "

"How does Francis Ford Coppola, one of the greatest filmmakers of our time, see Keanu Reeves's work, see what we've all seen, and say, "That's what I want in my movie"? How does Bertolucci see that and say, "That's my guy?" Emilio and I sit around and just scratch our heads, thinking, "How did this guy get in?"

 

Karma pretty much Keanu is a year older than Charlie and looks like he hasn't aged in 20 years while Charlie looks like he's aged twice that(unfortunately we now know why).

 

Edited by VCRTracking
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That reminds me of this Charlie Sheen quote from the early 90s "

"How does Francis Ford Coppola, one of the greatest filmmakers of our time, see Keanu Reeves's work, see what we've all seen, and say, "That's what I want in my movie"? How does Bertolucci see that and say, "That's my guy?" Emilio and I sit around and just scratch our heads, thinking, "How did this guy get in?"

 

Karma pretty much Keanu is a year older than Charlie and looks like he hasn't aged in 20 years while Charlie looks like he's aged twice that(unfortunately we now know why).

 

I think those two are pretty much the perfect examples of how talent will not necessarily correlate with success. Sheen is talented, but he's such an asshole that people don't want to deal with him, while Keanu Reeves is far more limited, but has a sterling reputation of being one of the best guys around to work with. Someone who will be courteous and considerate of everyone involved. That will get you places, in a business where everyone talks to everyone else.

 

Sheen doesn't get that, it doesn't occur to him that being a nice person will get you work, which is why he can come out with comments like those. It's why Sheen ended up doing terrible sitcoms for years, while Keanu Reeves has continued to make movies, despite making some true stinkers (Johnny Mnemonic, anyone?)

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I honestly see Channing Tatum as being the next Kevin Costner, but with longer staying power.

 

The only difference being that Kevin Costner was (and still is) really hot.

 

JMO, of course. I really don't find Channing Tatum attractive. ;)

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I can remember a quote from Jason Patric some years back that people cared too much about being liked.  Heh.  I don't think he really cared about being famous though.

Edited by vb68
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The only difference being that Kevin Costner was (and still is) really hot.

 

JMO, of course. I really don't find Channing Tatum attractive. ;)

 

I was 4/5 years old when Dances with Wolves came out, so I never really saw Kevin Costner as hot, but I do think he has that "everyday handsome dad next door" kind of appeal to him.

 

I think the meanest description I've ever read about Channing's looks is someone who called him something along the lines of "an aging, botoxed, 35-year old Hollywood rent boy." LOL.

 

Jason Patric seems like a pretty awful person, but he also doesn't seem to give a shit about being liked or famous. It's kind of sad that a guy as talented as he was basically is only semi-relevant again because of his custody battle over his sperm donation.

Edited by methodwriter85
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I know the Magic Mike movies weren't considered high art, but I loved him in those and he really can dance his arse off.

Agreed, but to be fair playing a fictionalized version of yourself in your own semi-autobiography and spending half your screentime dancing silently is setting the bar about as low as it can go for acting difficulty. And performing opposite Cody Horn would have made Adam Sandler look like Olivier by comparison.

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Sheen doesn't get that, it doesn't occur to him that being a nice person will get you work, which is why he can come out with comments like those. It's why Sheen ended up doing terrible sitcoms for years, while Keanu Reeves has continued to make movies, despite making some true stinkers (Johnny Mnemonic, anyone?)

 

I always liked that Keanu's still friends with Alex Winter(Bill from Bill and Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure).

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The scene where he finds out Jonah Hill's character slept with the captain played by Ice Cube's daughter is probably the funniest I've seen in a movie in a while.

 

 

 

That reminds me of this Charlie Sheen quote from the early 90s "

"How does Francis Ford Coppola, one of the greatest filmmakers of our time, see Keanu Reeves's work, see what we've all seen, and say, "That's what I want in my movie"? How does Bertolucci see that and say, "That's my guy?" Emilio and I sit around and just scratch our heads, thinking, "How did this guy get in?"

 

Karma pretty much Keanu is a year older than Charlie and looks like he hasn't aged in 20 years while Charlie looks like he's aged twice that(unfortunately we now know why).

I find this to be so absurd.  Yes, Keanu Reeves is not the greatest actor but I would certainly rank him over Charlie and Emilio.  Have I missed something?  When has Charlie exemplified great acting in his career.  Don't get me wrong I like a Charlie Sheen comedy as much as the next person, and even find 2 and 1/2 men to be a great fit for him, but he is in no position to be criticizing Keanu Reeves.

 

Maybe it is because he grew up with the clique of; the Penn's, Dillon's, and the Lowe's he somehow thinks he is on some elevated level there.  Looking at that group there is a clear divide between those that are movie actors and those that are tv actors.  Sean Penn, Tom Cruise, Matt Dillon, I understand why they are in movies and continue to work.  I also think that tv suits someone like Charlie Sheen and even Rob Lowe who I would rank more talented than Sheen.

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I find this to be so absurd.  Yes, Keanu Reeves is not the greatest actor but I would certainly rank him over Charlie and Emilio.  Have I missed something?  When has Charlie exemplified great acting in his career.

 

 

It's been a few decades since I watched it, but I want to say Platoon was his best performance.   Not an all time great performance, but I remember thinking he had a lot of promise after that.  But I completely agree that he failed to build on that or live up to any potential he showed.   I don't think he was ever that serious about his craft.

Edited by vb68
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From the Christmas Movies thread:

I don't think it's that hysterical, but it does kinda remind you that Macaulay Culkin can actually act. He's only been in a very few things as an adult, like Saved and Party Monster, but he himself was suprisingly good in both of those. I even thought he was really funny when he guest starred on Will & Grace once. No one will ever be able to think of or see him as anything except the massive child star he once was, but he does have talent.

 

I was impressed with Macaulay's smallish role the one-season show Kings, playing a troubled and creepy character. I hope he's able to make some kind of a comeback, if he wants that.

Edited by Trini
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I honestly don't think Culkin's heart is in it. He seems to be happy living as a New York City hipster off on his childhood wealth. It's funny that Kieran's still chugging along as a working actor. If they ever made a sequel to Father of the Bride, I would love for him to reprise his role.

 

He was good in My Girl.

 

Speaking of, Anna Chlumsky's comeback shocked the hell out of me. She pretty much checked out of acting by the time she was 18, and she didn't come back for 7 years. I remember seeing her on a "where are they now?" deal and she seemed like she wanted to be a food critic.

 

Sometimes a break like that wouldn't go well, but in her case, it worked- she was a young woman instead of a kid, and she wasn't desperately trying to maintain relevancy by appearing in reality shows.

Edited by methodwriter85
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I honestly don't think Culkin's heart is in it. He seems to be happy living as a New York City hipster off on his childhood wealth. It's funny that Kieran's still chugging along as a working actor. If they ever made a sequel to Father of the Bride, I would love for him to reprise his role.

 

I can see why Macaulay would be over it. He grew up completely in the spotlight. He was one of the biggest child actors in the 20th century and received a lot of media attention growing up. Growing up on sets with a father like his probably means he doesn't have the best memories of acting. The Olsen twins had a similar upbringing and neither of them are interested in acting any more. I do agree Culkin can act. Kieran is not bad at acting either, but he never got the same level of limelight like his brother did.

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I agree. Macaulay Culkin's level of universal fame for a child star was extremely rare- honestly I think only Shirley Temple compares in terms of being the kind of sole, household name that everyone in the world knew for a number of years. And just like her, I don't think there's anything he could have ever done to transition into acting as an adult to the point where people could look at him and accept him as not his childhood self. The fact that he still occasionally gets reported on and mentioned and photgraphed long after he left acting testifies to that.

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See, I think McCauley's issue wasn't necessarily that he was too famous, too young.  I think it had more to do with that he had unstable parents who didn't guide him not only as his parents but also as a young actor in this business.  We only ever hear about the really horror stories, but there are millions of actors who start out as child actors who are able to manage it just fine.  Now, most of them aren't/weren't as famous as McCauley but that is all the more reason why you need stable, smart people around you to help guide you and transition you in this business as you get older. 

 

Not to take it here necessarily but maybe McCauley just wasn't able to find his niche in terms of older roles.  The reality is that MC was a cute child actor who started in a beloved franchise.  Now I happen to actually love a lot of his movies, some of that may be nostalgia, and I happen to think he is a decent actor.  But at the same time I wouldn't put him in the same league of say a Haley Joel Osment, Dakota Fanning, or Jodie Foster.

 

As he has gotten older I find MC to be more effective in darker roles than the light hearted comedies he did when he was a child.

Edited by JBC344
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Shirley Temple and Macaulay Culkin both played the adorable imp as child stars, were the cutest kids evah! which often takes a different skill set than being a dramatic actor as an adult, and lookswise, cute doesn't always age well. Culkin had a horrible stage father (when Chris Columbus was working on Harry Potter he basically said casting the parents was just as important as the right kids, i.e. he had no time for the next generation Kit Culkin) and in his twenties the drug rumors constantly lingered...maybe the truth was embellished, but you have to wonder if acting was truly a priority for him at that point. With Shirley Temple, it was a very different time when she was a young adult. Now, it's practically a rite of passage to the point of being a cliché, former child stars taking roles involving lots of sex/nudity/drugs, to prove they're "all grown up". OTOH, since the dawn of Hollywood, there have been child actors who could take or leave celebrity, and eventually find fulfillment in other areas.

 

Elizabeth Taylor had such a dramatic life that her child stardom is way down the list of things she's best known for... Maybe she wasn't saving an entire studio like Shirley Temple, but she was definitely a celebrity in her youth and not just an anonymous child acting in bit parts. Honestly, though, nature was nine-tenths of the battle in Taylor shedding her child star image. Even as a child, her appearance and personality kept her from being cast as the cutesy moppet, so that lessened the sort of child star baggage that had to be overcome (compared to someone like Shirley Temple). And then she grew up to look like that.

Edited by Dejana
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It's definitely possible to transition from being a child actor to an adult one, and of course it depends on the parents and everything too, but I still think the ones that did make the transition never did have the kind of stardom as kids that those two did. The massive box office success that rested entirely on their shoulders where they were the face of their movies and became household names- that's incredibly rare for child actors. People became SO familiar with their image as a kid that once they grew up it was always going to be hard to ever see them as anything else. Imo.

Edited by Ruby25
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Elizabeth Taylor had such a dramatic life that her child stardom is way down the list of things she's best known for... Maybe she wasn't saving an entire studio like Shirley Temple, but she was definitely a celebrity in her youth and not just an anonymous child acting in bit parts. Honestly, though, nature was nine-tenths of the battle in Taylor shedding her child star image. Even as a child, her appearance and personality kept her from being cast as the cutesy moppet, so that lessened the sort of child star baggage that had to be overcome (compared to someone like Shirley Temple). And then she grew up to look like that.

 

Elizabeth Taylor's fame came at 12, so you're right, she was never the cutesy moppet- she was closer to being a teen star than a child star. And DAMN, did she ever grow up to look like that. (I always thought it was kind of a shame that none of her bio kids really inherited her beauty.)

 

She also hit the right role at exactly the right time with the right co-star- A Place in the Sun really seemed like the turning point where she started taking acting much more seriously, at the point in her late teens/early 20's where she could have decided to just bail out of it like a lot of teen stars do. She gave us Martha, and man am I ever glad she did.

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The only person I can think of who went from worldwide child star to successful adult actor is Jodie Foster, and both stages of her career were highlighted by performances that were Oscar-worthy. So it's theoretically possible, but you have to be a literal child prodigy and one of the world's best actors of your generation.

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Christian Bale started out as a child actor. Though I guess he was already on the verge of being a teenager in Empire of the Sun. A truly astonishing performance and not in the "cutesy moppet" vein either. Though apparently he did have the usual issues with stage parents, at least it doesn't seem like he's on good terms with his family. Making a kid be the main breadwinner usually ends up with screwed dynamics. And he was struggling for years to make a transition and establish himself as a successful adult actor, though he usually put in good performances even in obscure films.

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I think Natalie Portman benefited from taking time off from acting to go to college.  It allowed audiences to get some distance from thinking of her as a kid but then she wasn't famous for cutesy roles either.  The Professional and Beautiful Girls were more mature parts for a child actor.

 

I think the parents management of their kids career can definitely have an impact on longevity in the business. There's gossip that Thora Birches' father has stalled her career because he's extremely difficult to deal with, and she still lets him manage her.

 

I heard Shirley Temple's mother was determined that her daughter got an education.  Once Shirley reached a certain level of clout, her mother started limiting how many movies Shirley would do in a year.  She insisted that Shirley be given enough time off so she could go to college.

 

Jena Malone has been around for quite some time but wasn't at Kulkin levels of fame.  She's transitioned quite well into adult roles.

 

The Harry Potter cast seems to be successful making the transition to adult roles. 

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There's also Natalie Wood, but even though she was in Miracle on 34th Street and had some fame for that, I guess the rest of her work as a child was insignificant enough that becoming a star as a young adult wasn't so difficult for her, either. Of course, like Elizabeth Taylor, she also had a secret weapon in her stunning looks (similarly, her daughters, while attractive, are not quite at the same level of beauty, either).

 

Shirley Temple deserves more credit for the fact that she was THE most successful child star of all time, and grew up to be a successful adult with her work in politics and diplomacy. If the young girl who literally saved the movie industry during the Great Depression could grow up to find success (albeit not at acting, but still), there's no reason that others with less fame than her can grow up to do the same, too. Of course, her mom making sure she had some stability played a huge role there, too. 

Edited by UYI
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Elizabeth Taylor's fame came at 12, so you're right, she was never the cutesy moppet- she was closer to being a teen star than a child star. And DAMN, did she ever grow up to look like that. (I always thought it was kind of a shame that none of her bio kids really inherited her beauty.)

 

Taylor got her first studio contract at 9 with Universal, but they dropped her less than a year later. The casting director there thought her eyes were too old-looking and that she didn't have the face of a child. Even if she'd started out younger, I don't know if she ever would have been cast in those sorts of impish/adorable little kid roles that are probably harder for the "all grown up" former child star to live down.

 

Aesthetically, I think the features that make for a "cute" kid don't always mature in a way that leads to an adult with the same level of attractiveness. OTOH, there are beautiful kids who grow into nice-looking adults (and kids who were just average, but came out of puberty looking like models). Not that looks are everything for an actor, but when a child performer who had the "star" looks as a kid grows up to be Hollywood's idea of the "best friend" or "sidekick", it's an extra layer of baggage to deal with, compared to another "character actor" who only started working as an adult. People love when it's the other way around, and the goofy kid blossoms into the gorgeous leading lady/man.

Edited by Dejana
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Adding to my thoughts on Natalie Wood her daughters:

 

While I will still say that she outranks both her daughters in outright beauty (Natasha has her mother's coloring, but seems to have a more...ordinary look overall; there ARE some really pretty photos of her, though), Courtney, her youngest daughter? In certain pictures looks like the blonde version of her mom, VERY uncanny. 

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Aesthetically, I think the features that make for a "cute" kid don't always mature in a way that leads to an adult with the same level of attractiveness. OTOH, there are beautiful kids who grow into nice-looking adults (and kids who were just average, but came out of puberty looking like models). Not that looks are everything for an actor, but when a child performer who had the "star" looks as a kid grows up to be Hollywood's idea of the "best friend" or "sidekick", it's an extra layer of baggage to deal with, compared to another "character actor" who only started working as an adult. People love when it's the other way around, and the goofy kid blossoms into the gorgeous leading lady/man.

Haley Joel Osment. Man. He does seem to be rocking the Character Actor look he has, though. Mae Whitman and her former co-star Alia Shawkat also are doing quite well for themselves despite not being the conventional beauties.

 

On the other side, Ryan Gosling. And back to Natalie Wood, she did have a very awkward stage, but it was relatively short and brief and by about 15, she was all ready to be a Teen Queen. (I would kind of say she was really the first one- movies about teenagers aimed at teenagers starring teenagers (or 24 pretending to be 17) was a relatively new phenom by the 1950's. It really wasn't until the 1940's, when the Mickey Rooney movies were going, that people even started to treat the teenage years like a separate entity between adulthood and childhood.)

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Christian Bale started out as a child actor. Though I guess he was already on the verge of being a teenager in Empire of the Sun. A truly astonishing performance and not in the "cutesy moppet" vein either. Though apparently he did have the usual issues with stage parents, at least it doesn't seem like he's on good terms with his family. Making a kid be the main breadwinner usually ends up with screwed dynamics. And he was struggling for years to make a transition and establish himself as a successful adult actor, though he usually put in good performances even in obscure films.

I remember Ron Howard doing an interview and talking how important it was that his father continued to work full time to support their family and didn't rely on Ron or his brother's acting for family income.  Howard's father felt it would be damaging if all the pressure was on the child to take care of the family. 

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The only person I can think of who went from worldwide child star to successful adult actor is Jodie Foster, and both stages of her career were highlighted by performances that were Oscar-worthy. So it's theoretically possible, but you have to be a literal child prodigy and one of the world's best actors of your generation.

I think Leonardo DiCaprio falls into this category too, even if he doesn't have an Oscar on his mantle yet. He's been a consistently working, solid actor since he was about 12, and he's always been an A-list movie star.

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Oh man, Haley Joel Osment went beyond not keeping childish good looks into looking like there's something wrong with him—I would have assumed he had some grave congential birth defect like that kid in Mask if I'd only seen him as an adult. Glad that he seems to be doing well for himself, though.

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The last really major child star we've had was Dakota Fanning- she's doing pretty well and seems to be going for a Jodie Foster kind of career. I don't think she even really wants to be an A-list actress- she seems to be content to make little indie movies while pursuing her education.

 

A level down from her but a contemporary, Abigail Breslin...she seems to be struggling a little bit. I think with the bleach blond hair she's trying to do the sexy thing, but I'm not sure it really suits her, and I wasn't all that impressed by her work on Scream Queens or the Final Girl.

 

Finally...I'm really fascinated by the fact that Chloe Grace Moretz has yet to lead a big box office hit yet she's still treated like an A-list Teen Queen. It kind of reminds me of how Saoirse Ronan was hyped hard but never really delivered teen queen status...although with Brooklyn she's officially made her break-through with adult roles.

Edited by methodwriter85
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Yeah, that performance was pretty much a shoe-in for an Oscar nom. I think she's proven she can carry a really good film now, the only hitch will be how often Hollywood wants to make serious female lead dramas that she's right for.

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A level down from her but a contemporary, Abigail Breslin...she seems to be struggling a little bit. I think with the bleach blond hair she's trying to do the sexy thing, but I'm not sure it really suits her, and I wasn't all that impressed by her work on Scream Queens or the Final Girl.

 

Agree about the bleach blond hair.  She's attractive but I don't think the sexy image suits her, if that's what she's going for.  She's a good enough actress without that.

Edited by Ohwell
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Re Oscar Isaac, while I believe that he's been a rising star since his first Golden Globe-nominated performance in Inside Llewellyn Davis, between his second GG-nominated work in Show Me A Hero, his performance in A Most Violent Year, the phenomenal success of Star Wars: The Force Awakens & next year's X-Men: Apocalypse, I think he's about to go to the next level, if he's not already there.

 

  As for his SW: TFA co-stars John Boyega & Daisy Ridley, if they play their cards right, I think they've got bright futures ahead of them, too.

Edited by DollEyes
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