S37.E08: You Get What You Give

[Nashville]

A few thoughts:

• At the episode’s start (upon return to camp from the previous episode’s TC) - Angelina ‘s totally transparent attempt at an Operation CYA was SO amateurishly comical, even the crabs on the beach were laughing at her.
• Mike paranoid-overthought THAT strategic play by a country mile, to his own detriment.  Since when has burning ALL your bridges equally been an effective winning strategy?  Stupid.
• John was one of my Top 3 favorites and the only Goliath in that grouping, so I was sad to see him go - but his departure was also liberating for me, insofar as I can now explore my antipathy for the entire remaining Goliath tribe freely and without reservation.  With the possible exception of Alec, the Gs are now nothing but big dumb chunks of meat to me.
• Best TC in a LONG damn time.  I loved the progression of reveal.  First the Ds appear to be one step ahead of the Gs in covering Christian with Davie’s idol (WTG DAVIE!!!) - but wait; now the Gs appear to be two steps ahead with their prearranged idol coverage of Angelina, in case Christian had one - but wait again; now it turns out the Ds were three steps ahead in anticipating Angelina’s idol coverage, and doing a split-vote redirect towards an entirely different Goliath target!  That’s Wizard Chess, that is!  ;)
• In a late-breaking tie with Mike for Stupidest Move of this Episode: if the Gs’ backstop strategy to idol Angelina’s ass was developed specifically because they were THAT worried Christian’s eviction would get idol blocked, then why the hell didn’t the Gs split THEIR vote?

[ProfCrash]

16 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Best TC in a LONG damn time.  I loved the progression of reveal.  First the Ds appear to be one step ahead of the Gs in covering Christian with Davie’s idol (WTG DAVIE!!!) - but wait; now the Gs appear to be two steps ahead with their prearranged idol coverage of Angelina, in case Christian had one - but wait again; now it turns out the Ds were three steps ahead in anticipating Angelina’s idol coverage, and doing a split-vote redirect towards an entirely different Goliath target!  That’s Wizard Chess, that is!  ;)

You know, that was brilliant but also why not split the vote? Everyone knows Dan has an idol (I am not sure that everyone knows he has two) so it is likely that he will play his idol for Angelina. I expected one vote for someone else, from Davie since Davie is the only one who knew he had an idol. I did not expect three votes. Christian's vote surprises me. Christian looked appropriately panicked at tribal so I am not sure that he knew Davie had an idol. I think it might have been better for everyone if the David's changed who they were voting for as a whole, more a unified swap, and not told the Goliath's. It would have been even more fun to have Dan play the idol and Angelina not get one vote.

[Haleth]

7 hours ago, 303420 said:

Dan's playing the idol was a classic blunder along the lines of "I clearly cannot chose the wine in front of me." He failed to anticipate that they were both poisoned and that the Davids had developed an immunity to Iocane.

I love you.

Davey has a much better poker face than I do.  As soon as Dan played his idol for Angelina I would have burst out laughing.  

[Kenzie]

2 hours ago, mojoween said:

I can’t get behind Angelina’s lamenting of corporate culture.  If you don’t agree with her you’re wrong; if she doesn’t get her way she cries and then runs to Elizabeth and tries to cause chaos; when she’s called out on it she tells a string of lies to save her own ass.

Her story about how Elizabeth found out she was going was so transparent that even DAN saw through it, which means she isn’t half as slick as she thinks she is.

Angelina seems very adept and at ease lying through her teeth ("I didn't tell Elizabeth, she just sensed it, you know." Her tribe mates didn't believe her but I'd bet good money she uses lying frequently in real life to get her way. 

[cujo]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not THAT Brochacho!

 

Okay now that I have that out of my system after they got to tribal I was worried and saw it coming. There were breadcrumbs dropped throughout the episode that get you there and the editing is nicely done. The previews for this episode had the talk of the "hashtag Brochacho Blindside" and all the talk about Christian which is clue #1 that Christian isn't going anywhere. So when that plan was still the plan going to tribal I was fairly confident Christian was safe. We also get a replay of John saying "hastag Brochacho Blindside". Dan wins immunity. Dan safe. Christian safe (because they wouldn't give the boot away in the previews). Add that you hear one of the David's (forget who exactly) say something along the lines of "who will hurt Dan the most" and there's a giant arrow pointing at John. You want to think it's Kara and she's a solid option for reasoning there but John and Dan are the head Brochacho's. With John cut from the alliance Dan also becomes the strongest physical guy left as well making him a larger target. I had the small bit of hope when we saw Angelina doing the begging for the idol and Dan hesitating that we had "jacket gate v2" but that didn't play out. Even without playing the idol John was gone with the 3-2 split. The Davids knew the Goliaths told them Angelina and the Goliaths assumed they'd run with that so much so that Angelina believed it, begged and flushed the idol on her own.

Someone else mentioned up above that the Goliaths planned to ditch Angelina anyway so the idol play - if Dan thought she was getting majority of the votes - was a wasted play and it definitely is. Heading to the next tribal 6-6 (if you think you're still split and based on that vote if it was all Angelina opposed to the John vote) with Dan's two idols puts you in a very powerful position even with the Davids knowing you have the one. They can make the fake target and you can protect 2 people and hope a Goliath has immunity. Thus 50% of your tribe is protected. They don't know about the Davids other advantages at all so that's where that line of thinking could get screwy but we have to base it on what they know and not what we know. 

John took it well. Angelina walking towards Jeff still begging for an idol to be played would have been TV gold though.

[blackwing]

Are Davie and the Davids are getting too much credit for the blindside? They seemed perfectly content with Angelina going home and it made sense, Goliath had the numbers and a two person advantage.  The Davids only did what they did because Alec told them that Christian was the real target.

Goliath should have considered a possible idol and split their votes, surprised that no one thought of it.   And where does Alec go from here?  Try to salvage the Six?  

[Skycatcher]

10 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

tempted to say "Oh and Jeff... that idol played on Angelina is null and void. BOOYAH!!" 

 I am still confused about exactly WHEN the nullifier must be played in the idol-playing process.

[ProfCrash]

The nullifier has to be played during the vote. Carl has to write the name of the persons whose idol he is nullifying on the nullifier and drop it in the voting urn. He has to have the correct person and the nullifier is only announced after idols are played.

I think saving the nullifier and vote steal for later use was brilliant.  

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, Skycatcher said:

 I am still confused about exactly WHEN the nullifier must be played in the idol-playing process.

I believe it must be put in the urn with the user's ballot when voting and have the name of the person whose idol they want to nullify on it.  

[Skycatcher]

Thanks, guys. So Carl has to have a very good idea if and when an idol might be played. I doubt that was the case last night. Everyone seemed pretty surprised when the idols started flying.

Now Christian knows where he stands and can fight back.

[ProfCrash]

Everyone knew that Dan had an idol, that is common knowledge. I think the David's were surprised that Dan played it for Angelina but were prepared for that possibility. Mind you, John got three votes and would have gone home even if the idol had not been played for Angelina. So they got Dan to burn an idol.

Rob and Stephen on Rob Has a Podcast (RHAP) think that Davie had told the David's he had an idol and was playing it last night. That is why the vote was split and split in such a way as to vote out John.

[Bryce Lynch]

I think Dan's move to play the idol for awful Angelina, while distasteful, was good strategy.  Keeping the alliance together was smart, though it was ruined by Davey having an idol and the Goliaths failing to plan for that contingency by splitting their votes.

Based upon the fact that the David's split their votes, it seems clear that they had firmly decided that Davey would use his idol to save Christian and everyone was in on the plan.  It was obviously not a vote time decision for Davey, as the editors tried to hint at.  

I don't totally blame Mike for turning on Christian and Strike Force.  He may have come off to some as sounding jealous, but I think he realized that Christian was a smarter, better liked and connected version of himself, and therefore a threat.   It's not personal, it's Survivor.

Also, I don't think Christian did a great job reassuring Mike that Gabby was solid with Strike Force.  He seemed to just shrug off Mike's concerns about her theatrics at TC.  

As for the suggestions that Mike dismissed the idea of Davey and Carl forming an insurgence because they were black seems unfounded (though the thought popped into my mind when they cut to the 2 black guys as he said it).  I think Davey and Carl have been playing a much lower key game than Christian, who has been out there with comments, forming cross-tribe alliances, winning a challenge or two, etc.   The fact that Mike was blindsided by them shows what a good job they have been doing of flying below the radar and not blabbing about their advantages.  

Edited November 15, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[cujo]

40 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Goliath should have considered a possible idol and split their votes, surprised that no one thought of it.   And where does Alec go from here?  Try to salvage the Six?  

At 7-5 (Goliath-David) split it's hard to split the votes. They go 4-3 on someone then Davids can pick off anyone with a non-split or it'd end in a tie with last nights vote and go from there. They go 5-2 best case they tie the Davids, worst case what happened last night would still happen. The Davids split 3-2 (John-Angela) and John would still go home with the 3 votes.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Everyone is talking about how they loved John so much as a contestant but honestly I don't remember any of his confessionals.  I guess he always said the straightforward, expected, gregarious thing because nothing sticks out to me.  It would have been GREAT to hear more from him so I can get an idea of what kind of person he is and why everyone wants him to come back, but as of now...... I haven't got anything.

[tvfanatic13]

Angelina, a wax before you left would have been a good idea. Damn girl. 

[ProfCrash]

3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Everyone is talking about how they loved John so much as a contestant but honestly I don't remember any of his confessionals.  I guess he always said the straightforward, expected, gregarious thing because nothing sticks out to me.  It would have been GREAT to hear more from him so I can get an idea of what kind of person he is and why everyone wants him to come back, but as of now...... I haven't got anything.

I don't remember John's confessionals. I don't think John was portrayed all that predominantly by Production, probably because he was an early Jury member. But he was there in the background a lot. You saw him working with people, chatting with people and doing a bang up job at challenges. I actually think the fact that we didn't see him that often on confessionals is an indication that he was not an asshole. We would have seen more from him if he was a dick in his talking heads.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Are Davie and the Davids are getting too much credit for the blindside? They seemed perfectly content with Angelina going home and it made sense, Goliath had the numbers and a two person advantage.  The Davids only did what they did because Alec told them that Christian was the real target.

Goliath should have considered a possible idol and split their votes, surprised that no one thought of it.   

Davie could have played things "safe" and went along with the Christian vote and kept his idol for himself.  Instead, he uses his idol to protect his alliance, then gets his closest allies to split the vote in case their number 1 target Angelina doesn't go home (some people think JOHN was actually their number 1 target, or rather DAN).  It's a great plan and I think they deserve credit.  This is why I was so disappointed with Carl making sure Elizabeth went home last week.  I didn't really get much from her as a television character/contestant but I just couldn't believe they threw their own alliance under the bus like that.

Mike is leading all the Goliaths around by the nose and got too arrogant and full of himself, thinking they were all too stupid to have idols or make a plan like the above, I think.  You tell the Davids to vote for Angelina and because they're just not as smart as he is, they'll simply do it.

I mean, of course Davie had to tell Carl and Nick about the idol right.... or else why would they write John's name down.  I don't know exactly HOW much he told them, because if Nick was acting at Tribal, it was some amazing acting.  Davie just meant that he couldn't tell the entire Davids set about his Idol explicitly... and I guess that means Christian and Gabby.

I'm still thinking about Angelina telling Dan to use his idol on her, him hesitating, and then finally doing it.  Whoever said Angelina acts "entitled" I mean I'm sorry, I have to agree.  She had no choice, she's a hard player, and she has to want to stay in the game, but man, I would have loved to have known exactly what Dan's thinking process was.  I know he has a second idol and imagine if he finds the next one too!

Angelina's tribal dynamics are fascinating because I think "in real life" she seems to be used to everyone doing what she says but she happens to end up in a tribe with the likes of Alec and Dan who do NOT just do whatever she says and it's hard for her.  Yet she's managed to come this far anyway.

@ProfCrash I see what you mean, he was pretty much always standing there smiling.  LOL.  Like in contrast to Carl.  The environment didn't really affect either of them at all, they just acted how they always act.  Carl looking "100% done" and John looking 100% comfortable and content, like he's not on a show about survival at all.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[ghoulina]

11 hours ago, lids said:

Dan is very dangerous now. Everyone thinks his idol is flushed so they’ll probably try to vote him out not knowing he has extra protection. Unless his (now ex) girlfriend starts telling everyone that he had two idols. Let the bitterness begin!

Lord, I hope she does. I really need Dan to totally waste both his Idols. 

 

11 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Mike apparently thinks he's smarter at this game than he is.  Was his goal to ultimately let the Davids get shrunk even more in numbers and then try to bring in whatever remained with them and hope to flip some Goliaths?  I really don't get his reasoning for bailing.  That strike force alliance was a safe place to be!

It really was. He's overthinking things. There are those who don't strategize at all, and then there are those who can never just be content and are constantly thinking of something new to do. Just stop. 

 

11 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

He might be ok since he’s the one who tipped off the Davids.  I can’t see Strike Force being a thing anymore though because who would trust Allison and Mike ever again? Such a dumb move, that secret alliance was a really good idea. But they’ve clearly drawn a line in the sand and reverted the game back to original tribe loyalties. The only Goliath I really liked was John so I’m full on rooting for the Davids now. 

I agree. They had a really good idea. They totally panicked and blew it. Now it's game on. Alec is cagey enough, though; I could see him trying to still work both sides. I think it was more Mike and Allison bailing that forced him to have to bail as well. Hopefully, for him, that Davids will notice that. 

[missyb]

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

Best TC in a LONG damn time.  I loved the progression of reveal.  First the Ds appear to be one step ahead of the Gs in covering Christian with Davie’s idol (WTG DAVIE!!!) - but wait; now the Gs appear to be two steps ahead with their prearranged idol coverage of Angelina, in case Christian had one - but wait again; now it turns out the Ds were three steps ahead in anticipating Angelina’s idol coverage, and doing a split-vote redirect towards an entirely different Goliath target!  That’s Wizard Chess, that is!  ;)

So many of the players were enjoying the heck out of the madness of the tribal council . Especially John. That was cool to see. Admiration and appreciation .

[brilliantbreakfast]

This may have been the best episode ever, because Christian has become my favorite Survivor player ever.  He's so endearingly twitchy and brilliant and maybe the young girls like the lunkheads with muscles, but Christian is someone I think you can only appreciate when you are past 40 and realize that smart > muscles.  It was only Nick and Christian who voted for John, so they bet that Dan would save Angelina and knew, or at least felt, that John had the potential to go on an immunity tear.  Nick wanted them to be the Second Coming of J.T. and Fischbach, only Christian is so smart he leaves Fischbach in the dust.  No one, not even Nick, is going to let Christian stay till the end, but man, is he taking this season for one hell of a ride.  Great casting decision.

[Bryce Lynch]

I assumed that since there was a vote split, the David's must have all been told about the idol and plan to save Christian.  If that is true, was Davey's apology to his tribe for not telling them all about the idol all an act to flush out Dan's idol, or get him to play it on Angelina instead of John.

The apology also would have discouraged Dan from playing both idols, as he would assume there no was organized plan with a vote split.  

[ghoulina]

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

Best TC in a LONG damn time.  I loved the progression of reveal.  First the Ds appear to be one step ahead of the Gs in covering Christian with Davie’s idol (WTG DAVIE!!!) - but wait; now the Gs appear to be two steps ahead with their prearranged idol coverage of Angelina, in case Christian had one - but wait again; now it turns out the Ds were three steps ahead in anticipating Angelina’s idol coverage, and doing a split-vote redirect towards an entirely different Goliath target!  That’s Wizard Chess, that is!  ;)

It was such a roller coaster! I was thrilled when Davie surprised everyone with his Idol. I was all smug as Angelina pleaded for life and Dan seemed to be ignoring her. My stomach dropped when he played HIS Idol. What will they do now???? But then the Davids shocked me by thinking ahead and splitting the vote. Just brilliant. Everything I love about TC. 

[missyb]

7 minutes ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

This may have been the best episode ever, because Christian has become my favorite Survivor player ever.  He's so endearingly twitchy and brilliant and maybe the young girls like the lunkheads with muscles, but Christian is someone I think you can only appreciate when you are past 40 and realize that smart > muscles.  It was only Nick and Christian who voted for John, so they bet that Dan would save Angelina and knew, or at least felt, that John had the potential to go on an immunity tear.  Nick wanted them to be the Second Coming of J.T. and Fischbach, only Christian is so smart he leaves Fischbach in the dust.  No one, not even Nick, is going to let Christian stay till the end, but man, is he taking this season for one hell of a ride.  Great casting decision.

I think three people voted for John. Christian, David and Carl. They showed Carl's vote in the credits. 

[Scatterbrained]

Something that hasn’t been mentioned: 

Spoiler

Angelina and John had a “showmance” that wasn’t shown on screen according to previously voted out cast members.  So voting one out and separating them is  good idea.

[peachmangosteen]

13 minutes ago, missyb said:

I think three people voted for John. Christian, David and Carl. They showed Carl's vote in the credits. 

Carl voted Angelina. The John votes were Davie, Nick, and Christian.

That ep was brilliant. Just every single minute of it was perfection. 

I loved the surprise, with some little nuggets of foreshadowing when you look back on it, but I would like to have seen how that vote came about. Did Davie tell all the Davids? I assume he must have. Christian voting for John pretty much tells me he told him and he almost certainly told Nick and Carl. I'm less sure on if he told Gabby, but I figure he did.

I also would've like to have heard more from Alison and how she felt about dropping the Strike Force alliance so quickly and easily.

Alec is great. Such a surprising character. Him mouthing Jeff's script was hilarious.

 

I continue to be so confused by why he so blatantly disregarded the rules and got himself banned from the reunion. Although, like I've said, he's a bit erratic, so it kinda makes sense.

Mike fucking himself over because he was mad he wasn't the smartest person in the room (that seemed to be the clear, underlying reason imo) and by completely underestimating Davie and Carl was hilarious and perfect. I loved it!

John's reaction to being blindsided was great. I love me a good bitter bootee, but it's always nice to see someone take it so well.

Great ep and it seems like maybe we're in for more interesting stuff, but in the back of my mind I just have this feeling this season is gonna end up boring and predictable just like last season. I guess I just wanna prepare myself for disappointment lol.

Edited November 15, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[bunnyface]

In the "nothing to do with anything" category, and worse yet, something they can't really control:  Gabby's side-knotted-up granny panties are killing me.  She is gorgeous but those things burn my eyes every time I see them.  I'm guessing she has some other clothes, although I can't recall seeing any at the moment because those are blinding me, but whatever else she has, she needs to be wearing.  All. The. Time.  Those can be burned.

Otherwise, go Christian!  I'm starting to warm to the vampire, whatever his name is.  Nick maybe?  There's a tall chick I don't know the name of either because she's practically invisible.  But she seems cool for a nameless, invisible woman.

I'm a somewhat late Survivor convert, but this season has been really good for me so far.

[ProfCrash]

51 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Davie could have played things "safe" and went along with the Christian vote and kept his idol for himself.  Instead, he uses his idol to protect his alliance, then gets his closest allies to split the vote in case their number 1 target Angelina doesn't go home (some people think JOHN was actually their number 1 target, or rather DAN).  It's a great plan and I think they deserve credit.  This is why I was so disappointed with Carl making sure Elizabeth went home last week.  I didn't really get much from her as a television character/contestant but I just couldn't believe they threw their own alliance under the bus like that.

Except that there were three votes for John and two votes for Angelina. John was their target. At least, John was the target for Davie, Nick and Christian. And I suspect Carl due to his ties with Davie. Angelina was safe even if Dan had saved the idol and not played it on her. Why would the David's throw three votes on John if he wasn't their target? No one from the Goliath's expected John to go. They figured that the rest of the votes would got to Angelina and they would have to revote. John was floored in his exit interview and Ponderosa. This was the perfect blindside for oh so many reasons.

20 minutes ago, Scatterbrained said:

Angelina and John had a “showmance” that wasn’t shown on screen according to previously voted out cast members.  So voting one out and separating them is  good idea.

Angelina said it wasn't a showmance. I suspect John will say the same thing. John's Ponderosa video is partially about his writing wedding vows for his soon to be held wedding. I have no doubt that there was an alliance of some sort and that the two slept together in the shelter, shared body warmth, all the Survivors do it. We saw no discussion of a showmance between the two, probably because there was nothing there. Jeremy claims there was. Natalie's exit interview points to Jeremey's comments and Angelina and John's desire to vote Jeremy out because Jeremy's comments were problematic to them.

The Producers are not going to hide a showmance, hell we have Dan and Kara. So I suspect that there wasn't a showmance and Jeremy was blowing something up that wasn't there.

[blackwing]

45 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Davie could have played things "safe" and went along with the Christian vote and kept his idol for himself.  Instead, he uses his idol to protect his alliance, then gets his closest allies to split the vote in case their number 1 target Angelina doesn't go home (some people think JOHN was actually their number 1 target, or rather DAN).  It's a great plan and I think they deserve credit.  This is why I was so disappointed with Carl making sure Elizabeth went home last week.  I didn't really get much from her as a television character/contestant but I just couldn't believe they threw their own alliance under the bus like that.

 

I agree that they made a great move... BUT they only were able to pull it off because Alec tipped them off that Christian was the target.  To the Goliaths, it looks like the idol play for Christian was a brilliant move, but it's not like it was a random stab... it happened because Alec betrayed his alliance.  I still am curious if Alec was purposely trying to sabotage Goliath in an effort to salvage the Six, or if he was just dumb.

[CountryGirl]

Me, after watching this episode:

This season is the best I can remember in a LONG time and the tribal council is one of the best in the history of the show.

While I hated to see good sport John go (I mean, hello, man-candy!!!), I'm so thrilled that (1) Christian is safe, (2) Dan burned one of his idols to save someone he detests and it was all for NOTHING!!!, and (3) Davie finally comes to prominence as the stone-cold player I suspected was lurking under the surface (including his distraction-dance that the idiot Gs totally fell for) all along.

Alec mouthing along with Jeff will never not be funny. 

Mike can go next - his paranoia totally bit him in the ass. 

Angelina is so predictable with her begging:

Her first tribal council: Natalie, can I have your jacket? Natalie? Natalie? Natalie?

Next tribal: Elizabeth, can I have your jury vote? Elizabeth? Elizabeth? Elizabeth?

This tribal: Dan? Dan? Please? Dan? Dan? 

I can't wait to see what she begs for next. She can also lose me with the Jan Brady/no one listens to girls shit when her fellow Gs wanted to vote out Christian and she whined about already having that idea last go-round. Um, maybe if you were less, um, YOU, they might have been up for it. It had ZERO to do with her being a woman. 

This pic says it all.

The only grins wider were mine and CountryBoy's.

[Lamima]

1 hour ago, Skycatcher said:

Thanks, guys. So Carl has to have a very good idea if and when an idol might be played. I doubt that was the case last night. Everyone seemed pretty surprised when the idols started flying.

Now Christian knows where he stands and can fight back.

I think Christian, Carl and Nick knew about Davey's idol or else they wouldn't have split the vote. I think they did not tell Gabby and that's who Davey meant went he said he was sorry to members of his alliance for not telling them he had an idol (and Gabby might also believe Chrsitian didn't know due to Carl voting Angelina). But I am guessing Alec spilled all to them. Even that Dan may or may not use idol (hence they split with John getting more votes instead of Angelina).

Edited November 15, 2018 by Lamima

[ProfCrash]

I love that Angelina asked Dan if he told Jeff who the idol was for and Dan's calm "Yes." That was gold.

[Lamima]

Also want to say that the Goliaths are the new FOUTTEs....LOL.

1 hour ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Angelina, a wax before you left would have been a good idea. Damn girl. 

Laser would have been a good idea!

[MisterBluxom]

3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

That was freaking brilliant.

<snip>

I enjoyed your post very much. I usually just skip very long posts after a quick skim. But yours was really excellent - good analysis, insightful and I agreed with almost everything you said and got a few chuckles too.

But, who is "Chrissy"? LadyChatts posted earlier that Angelina was her new Chrissy. But you spoke of them as two separate people. It sounded like you were describing Angelina when you spoke of "Chrissy".  I'm often confused.

[blackwing]

I don't necessarily disagree that there is sexism in the workplace, but Angelina specifically said that this is "like all the other times on Survivor when a woman suggests an idea and is rejected" and then "five minutes later a man says it and everyone agrees".

Serious question here... can someone point out some specific examples in the past when something like this actually happened?  I am hard pressed to remember any.  The only vague example I can think of is perhaps Chrissy.  But even then, it seemed to me that her alliance was very much behind her.  She inspired a lot of dislike from the viewers but I thought that was more because of her unapologetically aggressive style of play.  I don't recall anyone saying they disliked her because she was a woman.   Angelina said that her being ignored was like "all the other times".  What other times?

Angelina, maybe people just don't like you. 

[ProfCrash]

1 minute ago, blackwing said:

Serious question here... can someone point out some specific examples in the past when something like this actually happened?  I am hard pressed to remember any.  The only vague example I can think of is perhaps Chrissy.  But even then, it seemed to me that her alliance was very much behind her.  She inspired a lot of dislike from the viewers but I thought that was more because of her unapologetically aggressive style of play.  I don't recall anyone saying they disliked her because she was a woman.   Angelina said that her being ignored was like "all the other times".  What other times?

I don't rewatch episodes or seasons so I am not going to be the one to provide examples. I would point out that there is a fair amount that we don't see, so it is more then possible that this does happen and we simply don't view it. Jeff P gave a mid season interview to Dalton Ross on EW and pretty much agreed with Angelina.

[blackwing]

7 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I don't rewatch episodes or seasons so I am not going to be the one to provide examples. I would point out that there is a fair amount that we don't see, so it is more then possible that this does happen and we simply don't view it. Jeff P gave a mid season interview to Dalton Ross on EW and pretty much agreed with Angelina.

I agree that it is possible.  But if there is a fair amount we don't see as viewers at home watching a TV show on TV... then Angelina didn't see it either.  Her complaint was specifically about "all those other times" and I'm curious to hear what she thinks those "other times" are.  I read the article on EW and Jeff seems more to make a general observation that men and women interact with each other differently.

Angelina is interesting.  She is aggressive as you can get but then she seems to enjoy playing the victim.  However, when she tries to play the victim card, nobody buys it because they know what she is like.  As mentioned upthread, even Dan saw right through her.  She is really fake and she's not as smart as she thinks she is.

Now she's trying to play the "woman card".  I don't agree with Jeff when he seemed to be suggesting that an aggressive man gets treated differently than an aggressive woman.  Judging from comments on this and other boards, some of the most aggressive men in the game's history (Richard Hatch, Russell Hantz, Coach, arguably Jeffy's beloved Brad Culpepper) are just as disliked and don't seem to get a pass just because they were men.

[MisterBluxom]

*deleted*

Edited November 15, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Bryce Lynch]

4 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Carl gave away info about the Nullifier. I am not certain that was great play but I can see how it would be useful to work as a group while down in the numbers.

With the 6-5 advantage for the Goliaths, using Carl's nullifier along with Nick's steal a vote the Davids could flip it to 6-5 and nullify any idol Dan plays, assuming they guess right about who it gets played on.  So, in this case, sharing info about what advantages they have could be very valuable. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I assumed that since there was a vote split, the David's must have all been told about the idol and plan to save Christian.  If that is true, was Davey's apology to his tribe for not telling them all about the idol all an act to flush out Dan's idol, or get him to play it on Angelina instead of John.

The apology also would have discouraged Dan from playing both idols, as he would assume there no was organized plan with a vote split.  

Good observation!  Though how the Davids would know that Dan could possibly have two idols, I have no idea.

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

Except that there were three votes for John and two votes for Angelina. John was their target. At least, John was the target for Davie, Nick and Christian. And I suspect Carl due to his ties with Davie. Angelina was safe even if Dan had saved the idol and not played it on her. Why would the David's throw three votes on John if he wasn't their target? No one from the Goliath's expected John to go. They figured that the rest of the votes would got to Angelina and they would have to revote. John was floored in his exit interview and Ponderosa. This was the perfect blindside for oh so many reasons.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.  "Some people think JOHN was their number 1 target, or rather DAN".  I'm not disagreeing with any of this, I'm just stating that that's how people feel.

[Ms Blue Jay]

57 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

But, who is "Chrissy"? LadyChatts posted earlier that Angelina was her new Chrissy. But you spoke of them as two separate people. It sounded like you were describing Angelina when you spoke of "Chrissy".  I'm often confused.

Chrissy is from a recent past season.  A female contestant that rubbed some viewers the wrong way.  I think she only worked with men.

[MisterBluxom]

Thank you Ms Blue Jay.

I wanted to say that a lot of people here have been pretty hard on Angelina. But you have to give her credit for being flexible minded. In last night's episode, she said words to the effect:

"The reward loss was Dan epitomized. He is being way too cocky and running his mouth. I can't wait for it all to catch up to him and bite him in the ass."

But later at the TC she said:

"Oh Dan is my Angel. You saved me Dan. I loved you Dan."

I have always admired a woman woman who can be flexible minded. Even if she is a total fucking beach like Angelina.

Edited November 15, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Special K]

Angelina is just a very bad liar who thinks she is a great liar.  It's kind of hilarious actually.  It's akin to Natalie thinking she gets along with everyone when in fact she got along with no one.  I'm amused that TPTB are turning Angelina's edit into one long beg-fest with interruptions for laughably bad lying and self-aggrandizement.  I don't even mind anymore that she's still here because she's entertaining me so much.

But even more hilarious in a Shakespearean-tragedy way is Dan.  Losing that challenge because of showing off, telling his buds that he wouldn't save Angelina with his idol, then folding like a cheap suit under her begging.  AND THEN:  by doing so, causing one of his best alliance mates to get voted out, and keeping the very person he was dying to vote out anyway.  Nice day's work there, sport!  Brad Culpepper would be proud.

Major, multiple hats off to the Davids, with Davey and Nick at the top of the list.  They engineered that to perfection!  I'm sorry to see John go, and I love a good sport.  He'll be a nice addition to Ponderosa.  I too was hollering and clapping in my living room.  Just great TV.  Davey is all kinds of chill sucking on that toothpick, and I think Nick's fangs are cute.  As others have said, Mike is dead to me now.

I just wanted to point out that Kara is strong.  She was one of the people on her team consistently holding more than one bag during the Reward Challenge and didn't seem very stressed about it.

Christian should win an Oscar for his performance at Tribal.  And they ALL should win an award for pretending that skanky looking piece of pizza was good.

[Bryce Lynch]

35 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Thank you Ms Blue Jay.

I wanted to say that a lot of people here have been pretty hard on Angelina. But you have to give her credit for being flexible minded. In last night's episode, she said words to the effect:

"The loss of the reward challenge was Dan being way too cocky. I can't wait for it all to catch up to him and bite him in the ass."

But later at the TC she said:

"Oh Dan is my Angel. You saved me Dan. I loved you Dan."

I have always admired a woman woman who can be flexible minded. Even if she is a total beach like Angelina.

I think Dan was equally as flexible.  Wasn't he saying, "she has to go", about Angelina?  But then he used his idol to protect her, for the good of the alliance.   That took more on his part, as it was a real sacrifice, while Angelina had no real choice but to kiss up to Dan.

I do like how both of them were able to hide their true feelings about each other, put emotions aside and do what was best for their own games and the alliance.  Of course it didn't work out for Dan, as he lost John, but I think his decision making was sound...for a change.  

Edited November 15, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[nutty1]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

 

Angelina said it wasn't a showmance. I suspect John will say the same thing. John's Ponderosa video is partially about his writing wedding vows for his soon to be held wedding. I have no doubt that there was an alliance of some sort and that the two slept together in the shelter, shared body warmth, all the Survivors do it. We saw no discussion of a showmance between the two, probably because there was nothing there. Jeremy claims there was. Natalie's exit interview points to Jeremey's comments and Angelina and John's desire to vote Jeremy out because Jeremy's comments were problematic to them.

The Producers are not going to hide a showmance, hell we have Dan and Kara. So I suspect that there wasn't a showmance and Jeremy was blowing something up that wasn't there.

Isn't Angelina married?

[JustCrazy]

13 hours ago, GenerationX said:

Random thoughts on episode 8 - "Threat Level Midnight"

• It's not often that someone flips on a future alliance, but Secret Agent Mike managed it.
• Brochacho Blindslide, indeed.  Good to see John's sportsmanship.
• You have to love when Survivors give Peachy crap, and calling him on his patter was priceless:  "We've got nothing for you, either" and several of them mouthing "Immunity is back up for grabs" in sync with Jeff.  Heh.

There isn’t an episode where I don’t scream at Jeff and his idiotic commentary.  I’m waiting for the day when an angry contestant takes it out on him,  verbally, that is.  I want to wipe that smug smirk right off his face.  TC was awesome.  Didn’t see that coming at all.  Freakin LOVE Davie.  I’m assuming he was the mastermind of the blindside.  I think this season should show that nice people can make for interesting television, too.  Nearly everyone so far has been such a good sport.   I thought Mike was a decent guy until tonight.  Totally changed my opinion of him.

[himela]

15 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I was really hoping that Angelina’s begging would fall on deaf ears.

 

That guy was stupid for saving her. I hope it comes back to bite him in the ass. I will miss John.

Well he didn't save her, she would have stayed even if he hadn't played  the idol. John had 3 votes and she had 2.

[Bryce Lynch]

10 minutes ago, Special K said:

And they ALL should win an award for pretending that skanky looking piece of pizza was good.

Every time I see Survivor "pizza" I think of this Kevin Malone's review of the pizza from Pizza by Alfredo, "It's like eating a hot circle of garbage."  

[himela]

15 hours ago, ghoulina said:

THAT'S how you play an idol. Davey kept it quiet and shocked everyone. 

 

So how do you ecplain that the davids split the vote? I say Davie told them about his idol and they split the vote to ensure that if Dan plays the idol to save Angelina, there are enough votes on another Goliath for them to leave, and this is what ended up happening. I don't see any other explanation of why they split the vote...

[blackwing]

51 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Thank you Ms Blue Jay.

I wanted to say that a lot of people here have been pretty hard on Angelina. But you have to give her credit for being flexible minded. In last night's episode, she said words to the effect:

"The reward loss was Dan epitomized. He is being way too cocky and running his mouth. I can't wait for it all to catch up to him and bite him in the ass."

But later at the TC she said:

"Oh Dan is my Angel. You saved me Dan. I loved you Dan."

I have always admired a woman woman who can be flexible minded. Even if she is a total fucking beach like Angelina.

 

 

33 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think Dan was equally as flexible.  Wasn't he saying, "she has to go", about Angelina?  But then he used his idol to protect her, for the good of the alliance.   That took more on his part, as it was a real sacrifice, while Angelina had no real choice but to kiss up to Dan.

I do like how both of them were able to hide their true feelings about each other, put emotions aside and do what was best for their own games and the alliance.  

I don't know if "flexible minded" is how I would describe Angelina.  I think she's just playing the game, so I wouldn't give her any credit as if she was doing something over and above what everyone else does.  Everyone always keeps their true feelings hidden.  She doesn't like Dan as indicated in her confessional but he's on her team so she was doing what she needed to say and do at tribal to get his idol.

Angelina automatically turns to Dan and says "Dan... you HAVE to".

My question... did everybody in the game know that Dan had an idol?  Did we see him in a previous episode telling the rest of Goliath that he had one?  Kara and the other woman in his original three person suballiance knew he had one, and I don't remember him telling anyone else.  Was that person Angelina, or Natalia?  Back then they were physically indistinguishable to me.  

We know that Mike knew he had an idol because Jeremy snooped and he was there to see it.  Who else did Mike tell?  If it was such an open secret, why didn't Mike, who in his own mind is the smartest person in the game, consider the possibility that the Davids knew that Dan had an idol?  Or that the Davids would have an idol of their own?  If Goliath had split their votes 4-3 on Christian and say, Gabby, and planned to play an idol for Angelina.  The Davids couldn't be certain that Dan would play the idol for Angelina (and thus they split their votes 3-2).  It would have been a 3-3 tie on John and Gabby and on revote, Gabby goes home.

Edited November 15, 2018 by blackwing

[Rachel RSL]

11 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Would I be out of line for getting the feeling that he is aptly named and that he may be allowing his negative racial stereotypes to show?

Well, yes, kind of.  I mean, we have seen absolutely no indication either here or when he was on The Amazing Race that he's racist. Just because he didn't think two relatively low-key players were going to make a move doesn't automatically mean he has a problem with people who aren't white.