S04.E02: Fallout

[piperkat]

On 10/21/2018 at 7:15 PM, mxc90 said:

Does Lena has to do everything in her company where she doesn’t trust cyber security could have prevented the attempted hack before Tess ran in to tell her the news?

OMG, everything about that "hack" was totally ridiculous. The only part I sort of understood was Mercy throwing her laptop, but only because by that point *I* was about ready to throw my TV out the window. Thats...not how that works. It's not how any of this works. <aggrieved sigh> 

Agree with the poster wondering why Brainy is even using an LCorp image inducer. You have much better tech that doesn't depend on a network connection, Brainy, use it!

Finally, so all the image inducers are being sold to aliens? I can't believe no humans are buying them in order to improve their own looks, or play pranks, or do criminal things...

[Trini]

Wait -- I know it was two seasons ago, but LCorp was also developing the alien detector thingy; so they're making alien detectors AND alien concealers at the same time? That's so Luthor!

Edited October 23, 2018 by Trini

[legaleagle53]

16 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

How do they know the Vice President isn't an alien, too?

If he were an alien, he would have been outed the same way that everyone else was when their image inducers went on the fritz.

[HunterHunted]

18 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Just a general question for some of the other posters.. What would a MORE Subtle version of this episode look like... What would be done differently I see its asked for quite a bit

The entire first season of Avatar: Legend of Korra is the more subtle version of this storyline. 

[lion10]

I feel like Supergirl is portraying the anti-alien issue with too little nuance.  Alien invaders have tried three times in the past three years to either kill or enslave everyone on Earth, for no discernible reason, of course people are going to be fearful and resentful about that.  Supergirl is acting like the anti-alien sentiment came out of nowhere and is completely baseless when in fact aliens have been the unprovoked aggressors in several human-alien conflicts.  Imo, until the show acknowledges this, the season feels a little hollow and an easy way to score progressive points.  

 

Lena's quickly becoming my favorite character on the show given her pragmatic approach to problems.  Why shouldn't humans have powers equal to aliens?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

13 hours ago, piperkat said:

OMG, everything about that "hack" was totally ridiculous. The only part I sort of understood was Mercy throwing her laptop, but only because by that point *I* was about ready to throw my TV out the window. Thats...not how that works. It's not how any of this works. <aggrieved sigh> 

Agree with the poster wondering why Brainy is even using an LCorp image inducer. You have much better tech that doesn't depend on a network connection, Brainy, use it!

Finally, so all the image inducers are being sold to aliens? I can't believe no humans are buying them in order to improve their own looks, or play pranks, or do criminal things...

After Lena repelled Mercy's hack and Brainy's human visage was restored, did Lena say she had put up a firewall so that Mercy wouldn't be able to break in again?  Why in the world wouldn't the firewall have been up before the hack if it was possible to erect one?

11 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

If he were an alien, he would have been outed the same way that everyone else was when their image inducers went on the fritz.

I thought only Brainy was affected.  He, conveniently, was the first one hacked and Lena repelled Mercy before anyone else was affected.

11 hours ago, Trini said:

Wait -- I know it was two seasons ago, but LCorp was also developing the alien detector thingy; so they're alien detectors AND alien concealers at the same time? That's so Luthor!

Good catch!

[Dobian]

Yawn.  I'm about done with this show.  It was kind of fun the first couple of years, kind of sucked last year, and now we have...this.

[shantown]

Two days later and I'm still cracking up over Melissa Benoist's facial expressions when Lena was trying to protect her and wouldn't let her stay alone. "So what should we do, should we split up?" MB is great at the small comedic moments

[CletusMusashi]

Great moments in Supergirl this week:

Kara blatantly using her superpowers in front of everybody for half the action scene, and none of them noticing, not even when she does a full wardrobe change two feet away.

Not one person asking Evil Tony Stark where his trick or treat bag is.

Nobody suspecting that if you talk like an alien, walk like an alien, and order apples and olives on your pizza, it is pretty damned obvious that you're an alien.

And, best of all, while aliens all over the country struggle to pass for human, Alex seems as determined as humanly possible to make herself look like Deep Space Nine's Major Kira Narys.

Edited October 25, 2018 by CletusMusashi

[tennisgurl]

I think what has hurt the whole anti-alien allegory is that we dont really know much about how aliens being among us has really changed society. Like, how many aliens are there in the US that are living openly? Can they apply for legal citizenship? Are they common enough that one walking around the city wouldn't turn any heads? Do they use their powers in their work,or have new industries sprung up due to their appearance on Earth? How long have they been out in the open? Are their alien characters on TV shows where we get Very Special Episodes about anti-alien racism? I think if they used this for more world building, we could easier see how this anti-alien sentiment is coming about, or how prevalent it actually is. 

I dont mind them doing the anti-alien/political commentary stuff. People have been using fantasy/science fiction to talk about real social issues for ages now. But, with a whole series to explore these issues, and they clearly really want to talk about them, they seem to be missing a lot of opportunities. 

[Maelstrom]

22 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

The entire first season of Avatar: Legend of Korra is the more subtle version of this storyline. 

So I’m not the only person getting serious Amon from LoK vibes from Talky McMaskface?

It can’t be a good sign that the tertiary characters are the only ones who interest me in the least. Nia’s scenes with James and Barney, I mean Brainy, were excellent and felt very genuine. And as much as I miss Winn, I am enjoying Brainy and his dynamic with Alex quite a bit. His final scene with Alex where he discussed his newfound doubt was very humanizing, no pun intended.

Between the overdone plastic surgery, the weird line delivery and the ridiculous OTT hip swaying walk (she crossed her legs so far to each side that she nearly fell over a few times!), Mercy is just too painful to watch. Yikes. And Alex, why would you have the anti-alien guy guard the anti-alien criminals? I guess for;the same reason Nia went to a pizzeria for coffee.

[marketdoctor]

Quote

Nia’s scenes with James and Barney, I mean Brainy, were excellent and felt very genuine

Great, now I imagine a big purple/blue dinosaur with electrodes on his head singing:

"Crimes are solved, pizzas are sent,

I have a 12th level intellect..."

More seriously, the actress playing Nia was one of the bright spots this week.  And some people order the weirdest stuff on their pizza, but maybe aliens exist in this world as well.

(Known aliens have been around on Earth 4 since Superman had gone public.  It's possible there was a movement to amend the Constitution there to allow Superman to run for President, but that might not have been the only issue for the now-former President.  One of the more subtle commentaries was seeing a President get caught being misleading--possibly outright lying, and immediately resigning.)

[Lugal]

On 10/22/2018 at 12:44 AM, Winston Wolfe said:

Wow, great comparison.  Those scenes did have a kind of "March of the Penguins" feeling to it, lol.  All you needed was some wacky music.

That was kinda funny.  They least could have had Kara kick them off and knock out the soldiers.  It would have been less subtle than her "I'll just reach back here and catch these bullets."  Seriously, Lena, you can singlehandedly stop someone from hacking your servers, yet you can't tell that Kara is Supergirl, although I do give Katie McGrath points for at least playing it like she knows something's up.

With the whole riot and flag falling only for Supergirl to catch it, I know that this show has never been subtle, but I think that metaphor gave me blunt force trauma.  Are the writers those kids who would mash the piece of the jigsaw puzzle in the wrong place just to make it fit?  I mean between Nia getting coffee at a pizzeria, the same pizzeria that Brainy happened to be at when his L-Corp image inducer failed, speaking of which he used 31st century technology last year to appear human.  It'd be like us saying, I have a GPS, but I think I'll use the astrolabe.  With that, I'm amazed how well the scene between Nia and James worked, and Nia was a good addition.

12 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Between the overdone plastic surgery, the weird line delivery and the ridiculous OTT hip swaying walk (she crossed her legs so far to each side that she nearly fell over a few times!), Mercy is just too painful to watch.

I don't now what the hell Rhona Mitra was going for here.  She reminded me of Ruby Roundhouse trying to distract the guards in Jumanji: "Why is she walking like that?  Is there something wrong with her butt?"

On 10/22/2018 at 10:28 PM, HunterHunted said:

The entire first season of Avatar: Legend of Korra is the more subtle version of this storyline.

They cribbed it when J'onn went to the Equalists Humans First meeting.  But really people, a guy up on stage in a creepy mask is telling you everything you want to hear and it doesn't set off any red flags?  I'm calling it, Agent of Liberty will turn out to be Waterbender Alien.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Lugal

[Chyromaniac]

On 10/23/2018 at 9:19 AM, lion10 said:

 

I feel like Supergirl is portraying the anti-alien issue with too little nuance.  Alien invaders have tried three times in the past three years to either kill or enslave everyone on Earth, for no discernible reason, of course people are going to be fearful and resentful about that.  Supergirl is acting like the anti-alien sentiment came out of nowhere and is completely baseless when in fact aliens have been the unprovoked aggressors in several human-alien conflicts.  Imo, until the show acknowledges this, the season feels a little hollow and an easy way to score progressive points.  

 

Bigotry isn’t a nuanced position though.  Brainy didn’t attack Earth. Neither did J’onn, or the Spikey guy from last week, or practically any of the extraterrestrials being targeted by these racists and their terrorist leaders. Even among the species who have been aggressors, Mon-El, Kara and Clark have all fought for humanity.

No, I don’t want the show to portray the people at these rallies as having reasonable concerns, because they don’t.  They are being fueled by the lies of manipulators and their own xenophobia to do terrible things. There are not good people on both sides, and the only position that needs more nuance is the one that paints all “aliens” with the same broad strokes.

[Rushmoras]

A bit of hypocrisy from the DEO agents' side. Did any one of them demand that John Jones (can't really write his real name) be locked up in their holding cells for impersonating Hank Henshaw (correct name, yes?)? Because I can't really remember an instance that any of the agents protested to being led by an alien from Mars into action. Now, we have President Marsdin, who (OK, I agree) took the seat of the President by deceit as John did his position, and like John, used that seat of power to promote good deeds. But, unlike John, DEO agent's wants to lock her up? It's an obvious illogical over-look in the scenario, because we did not see in previous seasons agents protesting against a Martian leading them.

Also, another obvious mistake is for the "Man in the Iron Mask" to lead a pep-rally against alien immigrants. Why do people don't think that he might be an alien himself? Unless, he takes off the mask and proves that he's human, I don't see why people in that room would be so quick to lean towards his side (I mean, he's not really wrong, Kryptonians, Daxamites, White Martians and God knowns what else throughout the seasons of this show have attacked National City, and not everything is sunshine and rainbows as Kara portrays it to be).

P.S. Did Mellissa, Katie and Andrea received instructions from the director to run so awkwardly on purpose? Because all of them looked like retarded hens trying to fly and/or like crapped their pants.

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

Bigotry isn’t a nuanced position though.  Brainy didn’t attack Earth. Neither did J’onn, or the Spikey guy from last week, or practically any of the extraterrestrials being targeted by these racists and their terrorist leaders. Even among the species who have been aggressors, Mon-El, Kara and Clark have all fought for humanity.

No, I don’t want the show to portray the people at these rallies as having reasonable concerns, because they don’t.  They are being fueled by the lies of manipulators and their own xenophobia to do terrible things. There are not good people on both sides, and the only position that needs more nuance is the one that paints all “aliens” with the same broad strokes.

In a world where in just the last three years, separate sets of aliens have 1) mesmerized an entire city as part of a plan to mesmerize the entire planet 2) literally taken over the entire planet until deus ex machina forced them off the planet and 3) started terraforming the entire planet, I don't see how it could be said that the anti-alien people don't have reasonable concerns. And that is leaving out who knows how many other big picture things aliens have tried to pull before Supergirl became active, or smaller-than-global incidents that might have occurred. For instance, the alien slavery ring that Supergirl thwarted. 

The notion that have been a handful of aliens who have fought for humanity doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't a real threat from aliens. Indeed, realistically, Supergirl/Superman/Mon-El/J'onn could have been (and really, should have been) completely overwhelmed by the groups of aliens who vastly outnumbered them.

Prejudice against other humans is illogical because there's not much of a difference between us.

Concern about aliens who can read minds, bend steel in their bare hands, etc. and who come from completely different cultural, legal and philosophical backgrounds is not justified in every instance. But it's not irrational.

[Chyromaniac]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In a world where in just the last three years, separate sets of aliens have 1) mesmerized an entire city as part of a plan to mesmerize the entire planet 2) literally taken over the entire planet until deus ex machina forced them off the planet and 3) started terraforming the entire planet, I don't see how it could be said that the anti-alien people don't have reasonable concerns.

If humans want to be mad at the Queen of Daxam or the Dark Kryptonians or whatever that first thing was (I didn’t watch much of S1) that’s fine- but the people at the rallies and protests aren’t doing that.  The leaders behind this movement aren’t actually going after the “scary invaders” either- they’re using the paranoia to further their own agenda, whatever that may be.

No, the individuals being targeted by this “movement” had nothing to do with those past attacks- they’re just trying to live normal lives, going to their jobs, buying a pizza, etc...  But to the mob, it only matters that they’re “aliens.” There’s nothing reasonable to me about that.

8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Concern about aliens who can read minds, bend steel in their bare hands, etc. and who come from completely different cultural, legal and philosophical backgrounds is not justified in every instance. But it's not irrational.

I’m sorry- but in my mind, being afraid of someone just because of their abilities or where they are from is irrational- it’s also a textbook example of bigotry.  Even in a fictional world, individuals should be judged by their character and actions- not what they are or where they are from, no matter how dissimilar they may seem.

[Trini]

Wait - is 'Kasnian Kara' going to be affected by the Kryptonite in the atmosphere too?

[BaggythePanther]

13 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In a world where in just the last three years, separate sets of aliens have 1) mesmerized an entire city as part of a plan to mesmerize the entire planet 2) literally taken over the entire planet until deus ex machina forced them off the planet and 3) started terraforming the entire planet, I don't see how it could be said that the anti-alien people don't have reasonable concerns. And that is leaving out who knows how many other big picture things aliens have tried to pull before Supergirl became active, or smaller-than-global incidents that might have occurred. For instance, the alien slavery ring that Supergirl thwarted. 

The notion that have been a handful of aliens who have fought for humanity doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't a real threat from aliens. Indeed, realistically, Supergirl/Superman/Mon-El/J'onn could have been (and really, should have been) completely overwhelmed by the groups of aliens who vastly outnumbered them.

Prejudice against other humans is illogical because there's not much of a difference between us.

Concern about aliens who can read minds, bend steel in their bare hands, etc. and who come from completely different cultural, legal and philosophical backgrounds is not justified in every instance. But it's not irrational.

Maybe it’s because of this week’s Legends of Tomorrow episode, but in hindsight this feels more like an anti-Muslim/anti-Middle Easteners allegory. Between 9/11, the Boston bombing, shoe bomber, and various attacks in Europe I guess we can make a case as to why it’s rational to fear Muslims too. But people generally accept those attacks as outliers.

Like @tennisgurl said, we need more world building. But it appears that aliens are fully integrated into society so people should understand that the evil Kryptonians/Daxamites are the exception not the rule. 

[Rushmoras]

52 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

Maybe it’s because of this week’s Legends of Tomorrow episode, but in hindsight this feels more like an anti-Muslim/anti-Middle Easteners allegory. Between 9/11, the Boston bombing, shoe bomber, and various attacks in Europe I guess we can make a case as to why it’s rational to fear Muslims too. But people generally accept those attacks as outliers.

Like @tennisgurl said, we need more world building. But it appears that aliens are fully integrated into society so people should understand that the evil Kryptonians/Daxamites are the exception not the rule. 

I thought it's allegory for every "minorities" (I put minorities in brackets, because in this day and age, at some places it's really debatable), starting from LGBT and ending with terrorists (OK, terrorists are not rally falling into this definition, but you get the picture).

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

If humans want to be mad at the Queen of Daxam or the Dark Kryptonians or whatever that first thing was (I didn’t watch much of S1) that’s fine- but the people at the rallies and protests aren’t doing that.  The leaders behind this movement aren’t actually going after the “scary invaders” either- they’re using the paranoia to further their own agenda, whatever that may be.

No, the individuals being targeted by this “movement” had nothing to do with those past attacks- they’re just trying to live normal lives, going to their jobs, buying a pizza, etc...  But to the mob, it only matters that they’re “aliens.” There’s nothing reasonable to me about that.

I’m sorry- but in my mind, being afraid of someone just because of their abilities or where they are from is irrational- it’s also a textbook example of bigotry.  Even in a fictional world, individuals should be judged by their character and actions- not what they are or where they are from, no matter how dissimilar they may seem.

So we come full circle to the issue that has been raised -- we are presented only a superficial version of why the protestors are protesting because of lazy, one-dimensional writing. It is easier to portray the protestors as angry, biased goons than to show that they might have a point. It is easier to have the leaders of the movement be mwa-ha-ha villains  who would murder harmless aliens in cold blood than to have them show restraint and to be strategic and go after only the most dangerous of aliens. 

So far that we've seen, Mercy, Otis and Agent Liberty have targeted: Alien physicist (as a means to an end to get some macguffin), Empathy alien (for no apparent purpose but mwa-ha-hadom), President Wonder Woman (to expose how far alien influence has spread), aliens using image inducers (to show how widespread aliens are) and Supergirl.  If you take out Empathy alien, that all seems fair game. 

In terms of being afraid of someone, I guess it depends on what level that fear takes. Being aware and cautious that, for instance, any given man could be a potential rapist is rational IMO, while treating every man as though he were in fact a rapist is not. 

I think there is less room for error when we are talking about aliens on the power level of those in the show where between their inherent abilities and their tech, they could enslave or destroy humanity on a massive scale.

[Chyromaniac]

But racists are angry biased goons, and they don’t have a point.

Look, bigotry is not a subject that I care to see rationalized on this show, or anywhere else. If we say that it’s okay to suspect or distrust people because they are different- even in a case as fantastical as “aliens”- then we can find a way to justify discriminating against anyone for any reason. At that point, it’s just a matter of where we draw that line.

[MarkHB]

On 10/22/2018 at 6:58 AM, Writing Wrongs said:

Why did Brainy think he knew the new girl?

I took my potential answer to this over to the "Keeping Up with the Kryptonians" thread.

[Cthulhudrew]

On 10/21/2018 at 6:22 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Was Hank the only African-American at the Agent Liberty rally? If so, he should have really changed his appearance to blend in better.

This. Plus I get really aggravated that this show almost never has him using his telepathy. He could easily have just read that cop's mind instead of trying to press him for information, or eavesdropped on people at the rally. Yes, it isn't an exciting superpower like super breath or heat vision, but there are a lot of cool ways they could use it and visually represent it (see FX's Legion).

Rhona Mitra looked a little bit more herself this episode than last, but she seems to really be phoning it in. Is there some school of acting that requires every actor portraying a comic book villain to be completely over the top and recite all their lines in a pronounced drawl? 

[xander874]

On 10/24/2018 at 11:55 AM, Lugal said:

 Mercy is just too painful to watch.

I was so excited when I heard the character was coming to the show and I usually like Rhona Mitra, but she is so one-note here. Partially the writing, partially acting choices.

And it only took one rousing speech from her to convince Agent Whats-his-name to become a traitor? They should've built that up over more than one episode.

And I know they probably couldn't get Callista Flockhart, but to not mention Cat with the whole President thing is weird, since I think she is her Press Secretary or Spokesperson or something like that.

This episode was a little too parallel to real world and that bothered me. I know this show does that, but I feel this will go on for some time with Agent Sam Witwer and Mercy Scenechewer.

[Chas411]

I haven't been following this show in the media so I'm probably alone but I genuinely didn't see the transgender reveal coming at all. 

Hated the episode for the most part though - far too preachy.

[TV Anonymous]

Maybe I should have asked this question in last episode's thread since it began there, but here it is.

So the device emits kryptonite particulates all over the world. So what happened to other Kryptonians beside Supergirl? What happened to Clark Kent? What happened to the what remaining of Astra and Non's army? Speaking of which, how was Non doing lately?

[Rushmoras]

2 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Maybe I should have asked this question in last episode's thread since it began there, but here it is.

So the device emits kryptonite particulates all over the world. So what happened to other Kryptonians beside Supergirl? What happened to Clark Kent? What happened to the what remaining of Astra and Non's army? Speaking of which, how was Non doing lately?

Well, Superman is in Argo, so case closed. An the remaining army of Non and Astra... who are they again? (Nah, but seriously, S1 ended. Case closed).

[Trini]

3 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

So what happened to other Kryptonians beside Supergirl?

We better not meet any more Kryptonians in the future, because if they were on Earth, they're certainly dead now. But I'm pretty sure that there weren't any more Kryptonians on Earth. Fort Rozz and prisoners got jettisoned into space at the end of Season 1.

[legaleagle53]

10 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Maybe I should have asked this question in last episode's thread since it began there, but here it is.

So the device emits kryptonite particulates all over the world. So what happened to other Kryptonians beside Supergirl? What happened to Clark Kent? What happened to the what remaining of Astra and Non's army? Speaking of which, how was Non doing lately?

Non is dead.  When Kara was first reunited with Alura on Argo (which is where Superman currently is), she told Alura that she and Superman had given both Astra and Non full Kryptonian burial rites.  And the rest of the Fort Rozz prisoners perished when Fort Rozz fell into a blue star as part of the battle that Kara, Imra Ardeen (Saturn Girl), Psy, and Livewire waged against Reign when they discovered that she was trying to link up with one of Fort Rozz's most dangerous Kryptonian female inmates there (the male inmates had all already died because blue-star radiation is deadly to all males regardless of species, which is why Mon-El and J'Onn couldn't fight alongside the women there).

Edited November 13, 2018 by legaleagle53

[TV Anonymous]

Thank you!