S16.E05: Fragments

[thewhiteowl]

When a 50 year old tape surfaces the team tries to exonerate the marine serving time for murder.

[Katy M]

So, Hunter framed Mac just because he was black?  Stupid.

I guess I kind of liked the McGee thing.  

Not sure why Kasie was feeling sorry for herself at the end.

I'm with Bishop, I'm not sure how anyone can hear Yanni from that.  I also agree with McGee.  That was like 100 years ago.  

The Vance/Gibbs arguments seemed forced.

[JessDVD]

Couple is prying cabinet off

Me: Dead body in the studs.

Mr. DVD: Unexploded bomb behind the cabinet.

Couple: (finds envelope)

Us: Damn, we were both wrong.

And now that we're through the episode, I feel that exchange is completely inappropriate. Sorry.

Excuse my blinky eyes during the last scene.

Oh, and what the hell was up with that stupid Laurel/Yanni thing? Hi, last year called. The amount of time I spent scrolling past talk of it on Facebook back then was already about 300x more than I needed.

Edited October 24, 2018 by JessDVD

[mommalib]

That was a good episode. The reality for black people especially back in those days that even when your fighting for your country your still at war with your own countryman. And I liked Vance letting Gibbs know he's back, sometimes Gibbs needs to be checked with his arrogant ass.  Great to see Mcgee more involved too.

[stonehaven]

I really liked that episode...great and compelling..and Gibbs and Vance still have great interactions...and I am trying to figure out who did that CCR cover at the end?

[rhys]

The story had so much promise at the beginning but it lost its way. The reason the worthless POS master Sgt gave was ridiculous. I just cannot wrap my head around letting someone else go to prison for 48 years while you have your nice cushy life. Ugh. And then to have no consequences? Jeesch.

[mommalib]

5 minutes ago, rhys said:

The story had so much promise at the beginning but it lost its way. The reason the worthless POS master Sgt gave was ridiculous. I just cannot wrap my head around letting someone else go to prison for 48 years while you have your nice cushy life. Ugh. And then to have no consequences? Jeesch.

Unfortunately the reason the Sgt did what he did makes sense if you understand racism. And him having no consequences makes sense if you understand systemic white supremacy. So as maddening as it may be it's very real.

[Katy M]

7 hours ago, mommalib said:

Unfortunately the reason the Sgt did what he did makes sense if you understand racism. And him having no consequences makes sense if you understand systemic white supremacy. So as maddening as it may be it's very real.

The reason it made no sense to me was because he said he thought he would only get a slap on the wrist. So, what was the point?  And, why would you only get a slap on the wrist for killing someone?  Yeah, I know he said there was no evidence, but that still doesn't make a lot of sense.  And, two, he's so prejudiced and willing to keep him in jail, but he gives him money?

[FinnishViewer]

Quote

I am trying to figure out who did that CCR cover at the end

Shazam says it's Jonathan Clark.

[Trey]

Yes, I just found it.

Here's a link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMtZ7DcyfQU&feature=share

[Magnumfangirl]

The 1980s called.  They want their characters back. 

 

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

The reason it made no sense to me was because he said he thought he would only get a slap on the wrist. So, what was the point?  And, why would you only get a slap on the wrist for killing someone?  Yeah, I know he said there was no evidence, but that still doesn't make a lot of sense.  And, two, he's so prejudiced and willing to keep him in jail, but he gives him money?

I agree.  It made no sense, but I think they sort of hinted that the fragging cases in Vietnam were going ignored and those that  did get caught  got off easy.  The whole thing was clumsy. They tried to make the dead guy out to be hero.  He killed himself because he couldn't make a command decision!  That's not heroic.  It's lazy writing.  

I was thinking I'd rather be watching Night Court or Hunter.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Magnumfangirl

[Katy M]

16 minutes ago, Magnumfangirl said:

He killed himself because he couldn't make a command decision!  That's not heroic.  It's lazy writing.

I wouldn't call it lazy writing. I can see someone doing that.  Rather kill themselves than kill their whole troop in order to leave no man behind.  But, you're also right in that it probably isn't very heroic.    War is rough.

[enoughcats]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

but he gives him money?

And the money came through a fairly advanced chain so it wasn't easily traced.  Except that that particular chain would not have existed for four of the past five decades.  

I expected for one of them to have trailed the Cong and shot the prisoner, one perfect shot.  In the dark.  Mercy shot. 

[Kelda Feegle]

5 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

And the money came through a fairly advanced chain so it wasn't easily traced.  Except that that particular chain would not have existed for four of the past five decades.  

I expected for one of them to have trailed the Cong and shot the prisoner, one perfect shot.  In the dark.  Mercy shot. 

After I got over there not being a body in the wall or behind the cupboards thing this was where I got to as well, grief and guilt over the mercy shot.

Nice to see more McGee, nice to see basically a cold case episode for a change.

Did emphatically not like the theatre set up bs. 

I was also waiting for someone to mention that damn dress colour discussion that preceded the audio laurel thing.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Kelda Feegle

[JackONeill]

Not to be cruel or cold, but would the body be allowed it be reinterred where it was once learning the person had committed suicide? Doesn’t that change things? 

Yes, I know the time passage, and mitigating circumstances, and compassion . . . but the military is the military.

[LuvMyShows]

17 hours ago, JessDVD said:

Excuse my blinky eyes during the last scene.

Yep, I didn't cry until that very last scene.  But I still want Gibbs to get a haircut or re-style or something...it's just too long/stringy for him at this point.

17 hours ago, Katy M said:

Not sure why Kasie was feeling sorry for herself at the end.

I was specifically hoping someone could explain that to me!  And not only that, I also didn't understand what she was doing before that conversation...taking down forensic decorations she had put up, because she didn't feel she deserved them?  It's almost like the script left something out.  As best as I could tell, she thought that she provided no useful forensic-ness in the case (I'm inferring this, because of what McGee said about her handing the evidence to Gibbs), so therefore she is a total forensic failure now and into perpetuity?

17 hours ago, Katy M said:

The Vance/Gibbs arguments seemed forced.

They sure did.

7 hours ago, Katy M said:

And, two, he's so prejudiced and willing to keep him in jail, but he gives him money?

Yeah, and for the payments to have been going on as long as they did, means he basically had a miraculous turn-around in viewpoint (regret, guilt, etc.) pretty soon after the conviction, yet we didn't see evidence of that as he discussed it.

[Katy M]

Another thing, I was OK with Vance turning down the request for an exhumation, because I basically took that as not passing it on.  But, then he said "do it."  Did that mean that Vance has the authority to authorize an exhumation, or did that mean go ahead and apply to a judge?

[Ebau]

Soooo...  Jack 'n' Jethro? 

I almost didn't recognize Charlie Robinson - good old "Mac" from Night Court. And Freddie Dryer! So far, I've been able to fool myself into believing that I don't look 30 years older, but I think those halcyon days are coming to an end after seeing those two in this episode. In any event, I think Gibbs and Co. should have respected Ray's wishes and allowed him to remain in prison. I was reminded of Shawshank Redemption and Brooks; inside the prison, he was somebody. Who would he be on the outside? And after 50 years, would Ray even have the capacity to navigate the world, without someone else making all of his decisions for him? Brooks couldn't do it and ended his own life. Sad episode all around, I think, but one of the better ones as far as tuggin' on the old heart strings is concerned.

[Katy M]

16 minutes ago, Ebau said:

And after 50 years, would Ray even have the capacity to navigate the world, without someone else making all of his decisions for him? Brooks couldn't do it and ended his own life. Sad episode all around, I think, but one of the better ones as far as tuggin' on the old heart strings is concerned.

Maybe the widow will take him in.

[Rambler]

Vance turned down the initial request for exhumation because it was too expensive. I can believe that since it looked like NCIS probably blew its budget on that tricked out media center down in the lab - complete with reclining leather chairs, motorized curtains and huge-ass speakers that looked like they belonged on a rock concert stage. Your tax dollars at work.

[Katy M]

16 minutes ago, Rambler said:

Vance turned down the initial request for exhumation because it was too expensive. I can believe that since it looked like NCIS probably blew its budget on that tricked out media center down in the lab - complete with reclining leather chairs, motorized curtains and huge-ass speakers that looked like they belonged on a rock concert stage. Your tax dollars at work.

Yeah, I get that's why he turned down the initial request. What I'm asking is when he approved it, did he actually approve the exhumation, or did he approve it to go to a judge. Because I thought you usually needed a judge to sign off on that kind of stuff.  Not an NCIS director.  Wouldn't that kind of be like a police chief/commissioner OKing an exhumation in the civilian world?

[mommalib]

10 hours ago, Katy M said:

The reason it made no sense to me was because he said he thought he would only get a slap on the wrist. So, what was the point?  And, why would you only get a slap on the wrist for killing someone?  Yeah, I know he said there was no evidence, but that still doesn't make a lot of sense.  And, two, he's so prejudiced and willing to keep him in jail, but he gives him money?

He gave him the money out of guilt, clearly as time went on he realized how horrible what he did was and it seemed he wasn't as hateful as he once was, but he was still a coward and didn't want to pay the price for what he did. 

[Rambler]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Yeah, I get that's why he turned down the initial request. What I'm asking is when he approved it, did he actually approve the exhumation, or did he approve it to go to a judge. Because I thought you usually needed a judge to sign off on that kind of stuff.  Not an NCIS director.  Wouldn't that kind of be like a police chief/commissioner OKing an exhumation in the civilian world?

Oh I wasn't responding to your post. I was just making a little joke about that ridiculous man-cave thingy they’ve constructed down in the lab. I mean wtf do they need that for? If new lab girl needs to make powerpoint presentations every week, that's going to get old fast.

As to your question, I don't think they would need a judge to sign off on an exhumation, they would just need the family's permission. You would only need a judge's intervention if there was evidence crucial to a case and the family was resisting the exhumation request. Since the widow seemed to be interested in seeing the truth come out, no judge was needed. Of course my knowledge of the law comes solely from watching episodes of Law and Order so take that with a grain of salt.

[Katy M]

14 minutes ago, Rambler said:

As to your question, I don't think they would need a judge to sign off on an exhumation, they would just need the family's permission. You would only need a judge's intervention if there was evidence crucial to a case and the family was resisting the exhumation request. Since the widow seemed to be interested in seeing the truth come out, no judge was needed. Of course my knowledge of the law comes solely from watching episodes of Law and Order so take that with a grain of salt.

That's right.  I forgot the widow could just agree.  

yeah, I hope kasie paid for her own decorations.

[Magnumfangirl]

10 hours ago, enoughcats said:

I expected for one of them to have trailed the Cong and shot the prisoner, one perfect shot.  In the dark.  Mercy shot. 

That would have made for a more interesting story!

 

9 hours ago, JackONeill said:

Not to be cruel or cold, but would the body be allowed it be reinterred where it was once learning the person had committed suicide? Doesn’t that change things? 

Yes, I know the time passage, and mitigating circumstances, and compassion . . . but the military is the military.

Good question!  

[brgjoe]

See, I thought the reason why the guy wanted to remain in jail and keep it quiet was for the widow.  I figured she would get less benefits if the death was by suicide.  So they all conspired to cook up this scenario so she would get her full insurance/gov't benefits, etc.  Didn't see that racial angle coming.

To me, the ending saved it.  I liked the ending scene with Gibbs and McGee on the bench and Gibbs saying his dad would be proud of him.  Aww....may have just become a little misty-eyed seeing that.  Otherwise, the plot itself still doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[GHScorpiosRule]

18 hours ago, Ebau said:

Freddie Dryer

Haven’t watched yet, but please tell me Hunter Dryer is a good guy! Is he playing a Marine?

[preeya]

44 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Haven’t watched yet, but please tell me Hunter Dryer is a good guy! Is he playing a Marine?

He is playing a retired Marine. The rest you'll have to watch.

[TheGreenWave]

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 10:12 AM, enoughcats said:

I expected for one of them to have trailed the Cong and shot the prisoner, one perfect shot.  In the dark.  Mercy shot. 

That's exactly where I thought they were going to go too!  Especially after Ray said that he was walking death or similar.

 

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 9:44 AM, Magnumfangirl said:

He killed himself because he couldn't make a command decision!  That's not heroic.  It's lazy writing.  

Was that the actual reason??  I didn't actually catch it TBH

[HurricaneVal]

23 hours ago, Ebau said:

I almost didn't recognize Charlie Robinson - good old "Mac" from Night Court.

OMG.  Thank you.  I could not place him, and it was bugging me. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

DEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

NOOOOOOO!!!!! Why’d Hunter have to be the bad guy????!!!?????????? Dryer looks pretty awesome though.

But I’m confused about why he lied.

[enoughcats]

49 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But I’m confused about why he lied.

So were the writers.

[Katy M]

21 hours ago, TheGreenWave said:

Was that the actual reason??  I didn't actually catch it TBH

There was a Marine captured.  He was going to have to lead all his men back to rescue him because they're marines so "no man left behind." But, he knew they would all be killed.  And he didn't want all those deaths on his hands.  That's also why they were arguing because the guy that didn't kill him was trying to talk him out of going back and that was also why he thought he killed him.  

Edited October 26, 2018 by Katy M

[mythoughtis]

At the beginning. Vance and Kasey are on the stairs.  He announced that Kasey’s temp assignment has come to an end. Kasey gets this dejected look on her face.  Then Vancw announces she’s hired permanently.  Gee, no offer and acceptance, no discussion of money?  Really?  Shouldn’t the person you are hiring have accepted the job before you announce it to the staff? 

Thats what I got out of this episode. I was so hoping it would be similar to the Charles Durning episode- but it fell flat. 

Happy to see more of McGhee.  Not happy with Kasey.  

Edited October 30, 2018 by mythoughtis

[UncleChuck]

12 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Gee, no offer and acceptance, no discussion of money?  Really?  Shouldn’t the person you are hiring have accepted the job before you announce it to the staff? 

That offer didn't just fall out of the sky.  Vance said that Kasey had risen to the top of the other applicants for the job.  She would obviously not have applied unless she wanted the job, so acceptance was pretty obvious.  As for money, all government employees are paid according to a set salary schedule, and Kasey would have known because the job posting would have stipulated which level (GS-8, GS-10, etc.) that the lab director would be paid. 

[basiltherat]

It seems that the more time you spend in the lab, the needier and more child-like you become.  Sorry, Bill, er, Casey or whatever.

[Katy M]

28 minutes ago, UncleChuck said:

would obviously not have applied unless she wanted the job, so acceptance was pretty obvious. 

You've never applied for a job, been made an offer and then declined?  I've done it twice.  Theoretically, Kasie could have decided she didn't like the working environment and during the temp assignment, after she had applied for permanent position had started looking elsewhere, and hired elsewhere.  The announcemnt was just done for TV show theatrics, which was also stupid, since we all knew she was going to be Abby's replacement from her first epi.  But, in the real world, Vance would have discussed it with her before the announcement.

[enoughcats]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

since we all knew she was going to be Abby's replacement from her first epi.

Since we saw she was being written as Abby 2.0 with silliness and quirkiness built in.  The theater really made no sense.  But it would be kind of nice to live in a world where you can just order what you want, without the pesky need to get signed purchase orders after bids were submitted and accepted.  (Leon's exhumation expense ....whatever.)

[Katy M]

28 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

The theater really made no sense.  But it would be kind of nice to live in a world where you can just order what you want, without the pesky need to get signed purchase orders after bids were submitted and accepted. 

I was kind of assuming that she bought everything to decorate herself.  If not, it's ridiculous.

[stonehaven]

I watched this again as a tribute to Charlie Robinson who recently passed away. Excellent acting from him and this episode was emotional and completely watchable. The past couple of seasons have been neither to me. 

I also noticed that it seemed elevated in quality by the McGee-Gibbs team and Bishop and Torres were relegated to the chorus....and oh yeah, Jimmy Palmer is always cool.

RIP Charlie Robinson. You brought home the quiet fight of Vietnam vets for years to come.