S05.E04: It's Her Kid

[Bort]

Quote

Annalise and Nate look to get Nate’s dad a psych evaluation so that they can have his murder case retried under an insanity plea. Meanwhile, Michaela works overtime to convince Tegan to give her a chance to earn her trust back, and Bonnie gets an offer she mulls over.

Airdate: Thursday, October 18, 2018

[UNOSEZ]

Wasn't a great episode.. Did love Anna and Bonnie bonding.. Man Connor is a whiny bratty.. I'm still not totally sure exactly what he was angry about... I love Glenn turman.. But I FFWD thru all the Nate senior stuff I just don't care... When that white lady went for the hair.. Lol

[colorbars]

Did anyone else not hear the episode title in the episode? I might have missed it, though. I just know I went into the episode expecting a reveal because of it, but I should've known better.

But at least we know Bonnie's sister isn't a twin, so people can stop with those theories. That while farfetched, were not past this show.

Edited October 19, 2018 by colorbars

[stonehaven]

Boring...I swear all the stuff with the younger ones bored me..seems they retread over the same issues..I loved the last scene with Nate and his Dad....and loved Annalise and Bonnie hugging...Bonnie's crying seemed really cathartic on some level...but the misdirect of the cell phone makes me think it might be Nate..

[TwistedandBored]

I love seeing Annalise bonding with Teagan. I also loved seeing Bonnie and Annalise having more scenes. I am glad to know Bonnie's sister is not a twin. At least we won't have to deal with that. 

Connor continues to be needy and irritating to boot. Oliver also needs to mind his own business. 

 

So, at the end of the episode, were they hinting at Nate being the one who dies?

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, I don't think the title was actually used for the episode at all. We already knew Bonnie's kid was alive, but we never found out who officially is her kid and if it's Gabriel. It's certainly heavily implied that he is her kid, but nobody came outright to say Gabriel is a Winterbottom. At this point, it really has to be him, or else we're wasting all season with hints that would be misdirects, and then...what, some random kid is gonna pop up and say he's Bonnie's biological son? I did find it interesting that Gabriel focused on Wes in that news clipping. For a brief second, I'll admit I did wonder if he was Wes' brother or something like that. 

It wasn't a bad episode, but I don't care about Nate or his dad. At least I wasn't scrolling through my phone during their scenes this time, as I've done for all of the Nate Sr stuff. 

Annalise/Bonnie's scene at the end was very well done. I have missed their friendship and am glad Annalise can be there for Bonnie. I like that part of the scene had the music omitted. 

I gotta agree that I'm not sure why Connor's getting upset with Annalise about her lying and her choosing him or whatever....but Jack/Viola scenes are always captivating to me. I guess why Annalise chose him for K5 is going to come up at some point in some big scene. 

I think they want us to think that Nate's in danger because Bonnie has his phone in the flashforward, and with Annalise sobbing in her new home, but I'm not buying Nate being in danger. Who knows what Frank actually told her in between that first flashforward and whenever she makes it home. It's obviously a misdirect but I'm pretty sure Nate's alright. I also assume Oliver's fine as well. I am interested in why Michaela is trying to get in touch with Nate, though. 

Asher was in the episode minimally, as was Laurel, which was a nice surprise. I will say I forgot that I actually liked Bonnie and Asher together and I really liked their scene in this episode. 

I like Emmett and I'm not quite sure why? I liked Tegan as well.

[wanderingstar]

“That account went bye bye the minute “white tears” touched Annalise’s Hair!”

Tegan is such a gem. 

Loved seeing Annalise and Tegan dancing. Oh show, don't make me invest in these two, only to dash my hopes. 

Why was Nate so adamant about Annalise telling Bonnie her kid might be alive? That seemed out of left field to me. I did not buy the explanation that he saw parallels with his and his dad's situation.

Viola Davis and Liza Weil have some amazing chemistry. Whether Annalise and Bonnie are fighting, sharing a laugh or comforting each other, I am riveted by all of their scenes.

Connor, that was a masterclass in self-sabotage. I didn't even get what his issue was.

Re the flash forward, is Nate in danger too? Why does Bonnie have his phone? And why is Annalise falling out devastated?

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

Annalise/Bonnie's scene at the end was very well done. I have missed their friendship and am glad Annalise can be there for Bonnie. I like that part of the scene had the music omitted. 

I gotta agree that I'm not sure why Connor's getting upset with Annalise about her lying and her choosing him or whatever....but Jack/Viola scenes are always captivating to me. I guess why Annalise chose him for K5 is going to come up at some point in some big scene. 

Agreed on all of this. I liked the intensity in the scene with Connor and Annalise fighting, and I chuckled a little at the way Annalise said, "I'm Martin Luther freaking King, Jr.!" :p. 

Good to see my guess about Asher's old feelings for Bonnie being stirred up a bit proved true. I liked the scene between them. And I love him wanting to help out with the wedding planning for Connor and Oliver :). 

Also enjoyed Tegan and Annalise out dancing. 

[blackwing]

29 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Yeah, I don't think the title was actually used for the episode at all. We already knew Bonnie's kid was alive, but we never found out who officially is her kid and if it's Gabriel. 

The episode title was actually spoken early on in the episode.  Nate was telling Annalise what he found and he said “it’s her kid”.

Loved seeing Tegan and Annalise at La Dominica.  Loved seeing Tegan with her hair literally down.  Loved everything about Tegan.

I found this episode really boring.  Sorry, but I couldn’t care less about Nate, and by extension, I couldn’t care less about Nate Sr.

I’m annoyed that we didn’t see any newly revealed alive person in the current day scene.  Ok so Oliver and Nate are both missing.  Show wants us to think that they are dead.  Which means they probably aren’t.  So the available dead people decreases, and we are one step closer to hopefully losing Asher.

[colorbars]

1 minute ago, blackwing said:

The episode title was actually spoken early on in the episode.  Nate was telling Annalise what he found and he said “it’s her kid”.

I was wondering if it was possibly said in passing in one of their scenes so I missed it, while I was waiting for Frank to say it to Oliver or something.

[tennisgurl]

Oh man, when that lady touched Annalises hair, I thought she was gonna lose her hand! The whole room practically stopped in shock.

[Dancingjaneway]

I don't think Nate is the dead body it's TOO obvious. What I find interesting is why Mikayla was calling Nate instead of Oliver. So far in this season Nate & Oliver haven't even crossed paths. So what happens that links the two. Also why does Bonnie have Christopher? There are so many lose ends that it's too hard to tell what is up and what is down. I'm still wondering why Annalise slapped Frank. It's almost like he was supposed to take care of something or someone & things didn't go right. I still think what he tells her is separate from the blood on Bonnies shoe storyline. I can see why Annalise didn't tell Bonnie about her sister and the baby. She wanted her to get on with her life & didn't want the sister harming her. Personally I don't think the pic of the sister looks anything like Bonnie. So it makes no sense that Nate would think it was her. Asher at this point is at the top of my "who is the dead body in the snow?" list. He's nowhere to be seen during the reception & he has been such a big part of the wedding. Plus it would make sense that he steps in it while working in the D.A's office & gets killed because of it. 

[Dee]

The chemistry between Amirah & Viola is crazy. The show would be insane not to capitalize on it.

[colorbars]

I think it makes sense that whatever Frank tells Annalise is separate than whatever Bonnie's up to. Or it's a different time line (before or after), because I don't see Annalise just leaving the reception like that if it was about someone dying at the wedding. I can't remember if Frank was in wedding clothes or not. I'd assume he was invited, but I can't recall if it looked like he went.

Going by her breaking down at her place, they definitely want us to think Frank told her that Nate was dead, but I could see it being something like her mother died. Though why Frank would tell her that in the middle of the wedding reception, I have no idea. But that's my only guess for what he could've told her that was separate from the Bonnie stuff that would elicit such a reaction.

[NUguy514]

I actually totally get where Connor's insecurity is coming from.  He's been pulled into this psychotic web, and he wants to know why.  Michaela's ex-fiancé was from a well-connected political family, Asher had his father, Laurel had her father, Wes was...whatever...guilt; however, Connor seemingly didn't have any of that, so why did Annalise pick him?  I get it.  I also get that Viola/Jack scenes are amazing, and I always am glad for them.

I loved the end scene between Annalise and Bonnie.

TEGAN!!!  She is my everything, and I am all aboard the Annalise/Tegan train!  Choo-choo!

When that dipshit white lady went for Annalise's hair, I was like...

Annalise is not a toy poodle, bitch, but you will lose a hand if you do that.

[darkestboy]

Meh episode, felt like it was treading water for the most part. I do think we need to get on with revealing who Bonnie's kid is and move the story forward. Gabriel looking into Bonnie is making me wonder if it's not him after all and then there's that kid Julie was dealing with as well.

They won't kill off Nate, will they? It does seem like they're throwing a red herring with Bonnie having his phone. Where are Nate, Oliver and Asher in the flash forwards.

The show is struggling with Asher this season, more than with Nate tbh. The stuff with Nate Sr I had forgotten about tbh.

Annalise was totally right to lose it with that woman touching her hair. I did like Tegan dealing with her though though Michaela needs to dial back the fixation. 

Connor can be his own worst enemy at times. The Oliver/Frank scenes were alright.

I'll take a potential Annalise/Tegan pairing over a Laurel/Gabriel one, 6/10

[breezy424]

Hey, it's Gleb the pro from Dancing With The Stars.

From the other side of the pool:  Not caring for Tegan.  And the white woman goes to touch black woman's hair - so contrived.

The only interesting story is Bonnie's baby and who is Gabriel.  Nate's father's case is boring.  I'm also not crazy about AK's new work place. 

Maybe it's Bonnie's sister who is dead.  Maybe she was kidnapping Christopher and Bonnie kills her to get Christopher back.  You never know with this show.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Do we know for sure that Bonnie's kid has a Black father? I'm now wondering if Connor is Bonnie's son.

Quote

Oh man, when that lady touched Annalises hair, I thought she was gonna lose her hand! The whole room practically stopped in shock.

I actually recoiled while I was watching.

Quote

They won't kill off Nate, will they?

They might. However, I suspect the show is just effing with the portion of the audience that has a longstanding hate-on for Nate and have been calling for him to be gone since the first season.

[tennisgurl]

Tegan and Annalise have amazing chemistry, I am so totally here for it! 

Liked how the thing with the burger joint lady ended, and how Tegan handled it. She was right, starting off a lawyer/client relationship with blackmail is a terrible idea, but of course Michaela would think that this was totally normal procedure. Being in the Keating 5, breaking laws in the effort of enforcing the law is pretty much standard operating procedure. 

Connor really is his own biggest enemy. His lashing out can be really irritating, but I do get why he wants to know why Annalise picked him and brought him into this web of madness. Really, I still feel like we dont know all that much about his past, at least the way we do with the rest of the K5. I wonder if he has a history of mental illness or something, he really does seem to have some issues, or had some seriously toxic relationships in his past, he is so severely insecure, to the point that it hurts his own prospects. I do always love when Jack and Viola get to have meaty scenes together. 

I think that Nate might be the body, and it might even have something to do with his dads case. We are spending a whole lot of time on it at least. 

I forgot how much I liked Asher and Boonie way back when. I liked their scene together a lot. So, if the new kid isnt Bonnie's kid, who is he? And who is Bonnie's son? The kid we saw with her sister? Someone we already know?

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Connor really is his own biggest enemy. His lashing out can be really irritating, but I do get why he wants to know why Annalise picked him and brought him into this web of madness. Really, I still feel like we dont know all that much about his past, at least the way we do with the rest of the K5. I wonder if he has a history of mental illness or something, he really does seem to have some issues, or had some seriously toxic relationships in his past, he is so severely insecure, to the point that it hurts his own prospects. I do always love when Jack and Viola get to have meaty scenes together. 

It's interesting that they're keeping Connor's reason for being in K5 a secret. On first assumption, you'd think that because his dad's a lawyer that it would be the reason. However, the fact that they're making it a legit plot point, while having other characters name off reasons for them being chosen, definitely makes it seem like it'll be different than "Annalise chose me because of my dad." I do wonder why, so they got me on that. We've seen Connor take two steps forward and then one step back, like here. He hasn't freaked out on Annalise since the end of season 3. Last season had him very chummy with Annalise and they strengthened their relationship. It's why it's a shame for it to regress a little bit.

However, the only actor of the K5 who can hold their own against Viola, in my opinion, IS Jack. Alfred was the only other one who could. Everyone else pales in comparison and kind of fades when they're having an emotionally tense scene against Viola, so it's probably why I don't hate this storyline, even when Connor regresses to his angry, whiny self.

Also, for me, it's less about not knowing about Connor's past compared to the rest, as I think we know very little about Michaela's past, besides with her ex fiance, and we only got glimpses into Asher's. It's more that we don't know what happened to Connor to see why he is the way that he is since the series started. We know Michaela's insecurities and why she's so driven and so passionate about law. We know why Asher uses comic relief to hide his own insecurities. We know why Laurel is the way that she is. But Connor? It's still very much unclear as to why he's so insecure. We know his dad came out gay and is in a relationship with another man. We know Connor has a sister. But what else do we really know that has caused Connor to be the way he is? 

I think the only other person who we know even less about is Oliver, actually. 

16 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I forgot how much I liked Asher and Boonie way back when. I liked their scene together a lot. So, if the new kid isnt Bonnie's kid, who is he? And who is Bonnie's son? The kid we saw with her sister? Someone we already know?

I saw on Reddit someone jokingly saying that it could be Connor. It gave me a chuckle. I definitely don't think it's Connor but I'm laughing at the idea. Gabriel has to be Bonnie's son, at this point. I don't see how they swerve away from it since they're already head first into the theory.

The only other reason why Gabriel is around could be that he's there to investigate Wes' death. He seemed to connect to the photo of Wes, he's moved in to the same apartment building that Wes lived in, and I'm sure they'd love to bring Alfred back for a cameo (maybe make it an annual thing).

[blackwing]

I deleted the episode so can't rewatch, but it occurred to me last night that Frank was on the phone again with someone talking about the kid and then he hung up.  We didn't see who he was talking to, did we?  Can someone more specifically recount what he said?

I'm a little tired of the whole Gabriel mystery.  We already saw last season that Frank was on the phone with someone as he was looking at Gabriel and told that someone "her kid's here".  Now the show is trying to throw out possible red herrings.  Oh, Gabriel isn't Bonnie's kid, we were talking about the OTHER kid, Bonnie's kid may or may not be the kid that lives with her sister.  Gabriel HAS to be the kid of someone on the show, unless the show is going to claim that Frank wasn't talking about Gabriel when he said "her kid's here".  

I would not at all be surprised if Gabriel turns out to be the kid of Bonnie's sister.  Maybe Bonnie did something that forced the sister to give him up.  Then the sister stole Bonnie's baby in retaliation and has been raising him as her own son all these years.  Bonnie finds out and kills her in the snow.  Whatever it is, I hope we get there soon, because I am tired of this show annointing special snowflakes each season.  First it was Wes, then Laurel, now Gabriel.

Also, the birthdate on the sister's drivers license was something 1980.  Making her 38 now.  Gabriel and Connor are about 24 and 25.  I guess conceivably the sister could have had a kid at 14 or 13.

Nate was looking at hospital records from back in the day, presumably for Bonnie, but those records listed the patient's height and weight at 6'1" and 180 pounds.  If that was supposed to be Bonnie, they could have done a better job with it, in today's age of DVR and freeze frame.

[colorbars]

10 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Do we know for sure that Bonnie's kid has a Black father? I'm now wondering if Connor is Bonnie's son.

No. She was being raped by "dozens and dozens of men at the time", so she has no idea of knowing who the father is.

13 hours ago, darkestboy said:

Meh episode, felt like it was treading water for the most part. I do think we need to get on with revealing who Bonnie's kid is and move the story forward. Gabriel looking into Bonnie is making me wonder if it's not him after all and then there's that kid Julie was dealing with as well.

They won't kill off Nate, will they? It does seem like they're throwing a red herring with Bonnie having his phone. Where are Nate, Oliver and Asher in the flash forwards.

The show is struggling with Asher this season, more than with Nate tbh. The stuff with Nate Sr I had forgotten about tbh.

Considering the random and unnecessary drama between Nate and the lady testing the DNA, I suppose there's always a chance she lied about the DNA, since she knew it wasn't for a case. But she seemed very calm and levelheaded in that conversation with him, not vindictive or anything, so. There's also the chance that whatever it was that Nate took from the car wasn't the male Nate saw with Julie. But I'm going to take it at face value that he isn't her son because they did the fake out leading up to revealing it's not him, while also not focusing on him or Julie for long, for me to think they're setting up some twist down the line, but I could be wrong.

I agree that the show clearly has no idea what to do with Asher at the moment, I wouldn't be upset at all if he died. The fact that they've randomly thrown him into scenes with Bonnie again is strange, but I guess they might just be trying to put more characters than Bonnie and Nate into that side of the plot.

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I saw on Reddit someone jokingly saying that it could be Connor. It gave me a chuckle. I definitely don't think it's Connor but I'm laughing at the idea. Gabriel has to be Bonnie's son, at this point. I don't see how they swerve away from it since they're already head first into the theory.

Most of this first half of the season would feel like such a waste to me if he isn't. I know people claim it's "too obvious" to be him, but people are still out here speculating how it all comes together and that's what the midseason finale can be, so there's plenty of mystery there for them to work with, so I wish they'd either move it along or pause the red herrings for a bit.

8 hours ago, blackwing said:

I deleted the episode so can't rewatch, but it occurred to me last night that Frank was on the phone again with someone talking about the kid and then he hung up.  We didn't see who he was talking to, did we?  Can someone more specifically recount what he said?

I'm a little tired of the whole Gabriel mystery.  We already saw last season that Frank was on the phone with someone as he was looking at Gabriel and told that someone "her kid's here".  Now the show is trying to throw out possible red herrings.  Oh, Gabriel isn't Bonnie's kid, we were talking about the OTHER kid, Bonnie's kid may or may not be the kid that lives with her sister.  Gabriel HAS to be the kid of someone on the show, unless the show is going to claim that Frank wasn't talking about Gabriel when he said "her kid's here".  

I would not at all be surprised if Gabriel turns out to be the kid of Bonnie's sister.  Maybe Bonnie did something that forced the sister to give him up.  Then the sister stole Bonnie's baby in retaliation and has been raising him as her own son all these years.  Bonnie finds out and kills her in the snow.  Whatever it is, I hope we get there soon, because I am tired of this show annointing special snowflakes each season.  First it was Wes, then Laurel, now Gabriel.

Also, the birthdate on the sister's drivers license was something 1980.  Making her 38 now.  Gabriel and Connor are about 24 and 25.  I guess conceivably the sister could have had a kid at 14 or 13.

Just rewatched it and he was just saying that there's nothing about "her" on his computer, just stuff about law school and jail reform, and he tells the person not to talk down to him. For me, the thing that really made me think it has to be someone at the school was what he said in the second episode to whoever he's been talking to on the phone; that he's trying to make sure he's not "here to hurt her." Though, I suppose the "her" there could be anyone, and not necessarily his mother.

I don't see how Bonnie's sister could've had a baby before she did, that Bonnie could've been responsible for making her give up, considering she was being abused by her father and countless men and seemingly had not a shred of power. It's never been said whether her sister was also being abused, but I feel like the way Annalise called her "trash" so vehemently, that she wasn't.

But, I just realized that with Gabriel searching Bonnie on his computer last night, that Frank should see that he did that next episode. Unless he has two computers, I don't remember.

Also, a random theory for who Frank could be talking to: Bonnie's mother. I don't think her mother has ever been mentioned before? Not sure how or why Frank would be in contact with her, but... Though throwing out the mother twist might be too reminiscent of Laurel's mother, which is still a storyline that's been left hanging. ETA: I could still see it being Bonnie's sister, too. Maybe she's not as bad as others seem, and she took the baby will good intentions.

Edited October 20, 2018 by colorbars

[Kira53]

Should I watch this season?  I have the 4 episodes on the DVR and no one else to ask.

[skotnikov]

21 hours ago, colorbars said:

But at least we know Bonnie's sister isn't a twin, so people can stop with those theories. That while farfetched, were not past this show.

 

Oh come on! Probably they are three or even four sisters and the evil twin is reserved for the next season (if there is one with these ratings), along with amnesia, coma, the alien abduction, an earthquake and tsunami and another suspenseful flashback mystery. We also don't know why Annalise hired Oliver, since she has been supervising and hiring everyone for some hidden practical motive.  And we still haven't seen Oliver's parents!  

Edited October 20, 2018 by skotnikov

[colorbars]

2 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Should I watch this season?  I have the 4 episodes on the DVR and no one else to ask.

I'm personally enjoying it/the mystery a lot more than last season, but it's still obviously past its prime. I'd say yes, but I'm sure others will disagree.

[NUguy514]

2 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Should I watch this season?  I have the 4 episodes on the DVR and no one else to ask.

I think it's worth it and that it's better than last season so far.

[Drumpf1737]

I think Gabriel is a red herring. I think Annalise picks a student from difficult circumstances (foster care, troubled upbringing) first Wes, now Gabriel. 

I'm honestly really sick of the kids' attitude towards Annalise. Connor reminds me of something I read in a novel once "insecure people want you to tell them their worthless because it validates their hatred for themselves". Connor should be in intensive therapy. I don't care why Annalise picked him, I'm exhausted of having to bear witness to his berating himself. I do enjoy the actor's scenes with Viola though.

[helenamonster]

It's still far enough from the midseason finale for this to be the obvious answer, but right now I'm going with Nate as the person Bonnie killed out in the snow. She has his phone, and he's somebody I could easily buy Annalise being that upset over losing. My questions are more about: what circumstances led to Bonnie being okay to calmly kill Nate (or put him out of his misery?), was Nate trying to take Christopher and why, and why is Michaela looking for him.

Tegan is precious. Protect her at all costs.

Meanwhile, Michaela's obsession with regaining Tegan's approval has gone from pathetic to creepy, honestly. If we didn't know Michaela so well, I'd warn Tegan to watch her back, this girl's got a few screws coming loose. I don't know why she can't just get over it and move on. She's the one that torpedoed the relationship.

I still can't tell if they're committing to Gabriel being Bonnie's son or not. It seems like making it so obvious that he is is supposed to be a red herring, but I don't know. Maybe I'm reading into it wrong. Maybe it's less about him definitely being her son and more about wondering why he's here and what he exactly he wants. Revenge? A relationship? Answers?

On 10/19/2018 at 4:33 AM, NUguy514 said:

I actually totally get where Connor's insecurity is coming from.  He's been pulled into this psychotic web, and he wants to know why.  Michaela's ex-fiancé was from a well-connected political family, Asher had his father, Laurel had her father, Wes was...whatever...guilt; however, Connor seemingly didn't have any of that, so why did Annalise pick him?  I get it.  I also get that Viola/Jack scenes are amazing, and I always am glad for them.

 

You know, I was going to ask here what Annalise's reason for picking Michaela was, so thanks for this answer. The assumption I was going with was that she admired Michaela for pulling herself out of her circumstances and becoming so successful, but that's far too sentimental and doesn't jibe with her MO for picking the other students (excluding Wes, who as you pointed out she picked out of guilt). The Aiden thing makes much more sense.

It's ironic how all the reasons that Annalise had for picking the K5 are now moot. Wes is dead, Asher's father disowned him then committed suicide, Laurel's father is in prison, and Michaela broke up with Aiden. And now she's just stuck with these kids who keep leaving dead bodies on her doorstep.

14 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

I think Gabriel is a red herring. I think Annalise picks a student from difficult circumstances (foster care, troubled upbringing) first Wes, now Gabriel. 

But her reasons for picking Wes were not just because of his troubled background. She felt responsible for what happened to his mom, and her brain fused him together with the baby she lost when she was out in Ohio. Annalise's reasons for choosing Wes were deeply personal and tied to unshakeable guilt and responsibility for what his life became when his mom killed herself.

[colorbars]

1 hour ago, helenamonster said:

Meanwhile, Michaela's obsession with regaining Tegan's approval has gone from pathetic to creepy, honestly. If we didn't know Michaela so well, I'd warn Tegan to watch her back, this girl's got a few screws coming loose. I don't know why she can't just get over it and move on. She's the one that torpedoed the relationship.

Now that you mention Michaela's obsession with getting Tegan's approval being pathetic, it's kind of ironic that just the other episode, she told Annalise off and said she wasn't Bonnie, she wouldn't let Annalise boss her around and just take it. But here she is, kind of acting like the Bonnie of S1, trying to get Tegan's approval and for her to notice her.

[LoveIsJoy]

Since Frank and Oliver are keeping tabs on Gabriel, it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that Gabriel is also tracking them.  If he’s as smart as the show wants us to believe, he's probably got his own apartment under surveillance and has already seen footage that Frank broke in last episode.  And as an earlier poster suggested, he may even have two computers.  I have no idea if any of this is true or just another red herring, but it makes me wonder.

ETA:  I was under the impression that Bonnie was raped by her father, and so her son would be a product of incest.  It’s a surprise to me that so many are speculating that Gabriel is possibly Bonnie’s son; the actor appears biracial.  What did I miss?

Edited October 20, 2018 by LoveIsJoy
Confusion about Bonnie’s son.

[NUguy514]

1 hour ago, LoveIsJoy said:

ETA:  I was under the impression that Bonnie was raped by her father, and so her son would be a product of incest.  It’s a surprise to me that so many are speculating that Gabriel is possibly Bonnie’s son; the actor appears biracial.  What did I miss?

Bonnie's father did rape her, but he also had dozens of other men rape her, too; in effect, there's no reason why Gabriel couldn't be Bonnie's son, although we don't yet know for sure.

I wouldn't put too much stock in Annalise's grief-stricken reaction to the dead person: Viola Davis didn't know that Wes was intended to be the dead body when Annalise had the hysterical reaction at the end of the Season 3 premier, so she was just acting as if it were someone very important to her character; it just so happened that it turned out to be exactly that.  The same thing could be happening this season: like, Annalise was completely bereft, but the body could turn out to be New DA Guy whom I can't stand and about whom Annalise probably wouldn't give to shits.  Or it could be Nate or Asher or someone she actually does care about.  We'll see.

[secnarf]

35 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

I wouldn't put too much stock in Annalise's grief-stricken reaction to the dead person: Viola Davis didn't know that Wes was intended to be the dead body when Annalise had the hysterical reaction at the end of the Season 3 premier, so she was just acting as if it were someone very important to her character; it just so happened that it turned out to be exactly that.  The same thing could be happening this season: like, Annalise was completely bereft, but the body could turn out to be New DA Guy whom I can't stand and about whom Annalise probably wouldn't give to shits.  Or it could be Nate or Asher or someone she actually does care about.  We'll see.

By this point though, shouldn't they at the very least have all the episodes for the season written? They could have chosen to edit out that scene if it turned out it was Bonnie's DA boyfriend (I also cannot stand him).

[Lady Calypso]

14 minutes ago, secnarf said:

By this point though, shouldn't they at the very least have all the episodes for the season written? They could have chosen to edit out that scene if it turned out it was Bonnie's DA boyfriend (I also cannot stand him).

Not necessarily. They definitely would not have written all the seasons at the time of filming this, and since we know the showrunner has been on record for two different arcs (I think two....definitely one) about how he didn't know for sure the outcome of an arc until it was time to write it, then it could be the same here. I don't think they're done filming the first half of the season, or they just finished a little while ago. But it's quite possible we see a lot more to that scene in future episodes, so I think it all depends.

But we also don't know that Frank's news to Annalise has anything to do with the dead body in the snow. It could be completely unrelated. Unfortunately, the show had no idea at the time of writing this that Roger Robinson, the actor playing Annalise's father, would pass away, or else I'd say that Frank could have told Annalise about her father's death. I'm not sure that it would have also been written at the time of his death last month. 

[secnarf]

21 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Not necessarily. They definitely would not have written all the seasons at the time of filming this, and since we know the showrunner has been on record for two different arcs (I think two....definitely one) about how he didn't know for sure the outcome of an arc until it was time to write it, then it could be the same here. I don't think they're done filming the first half of the season, or they just finished a little while ago. But it's quite possible we see a lot more to that scene in future episodes, so I think it all depends.

But we also don't know that Frank's news to Annalise has anything to do with the dead body in the snow. It could be completely unrelated. Unfortunately, the show had no idea at the time of writing this that Roger Robinson, the actor playing Annalise's father, would pass away, or else I'd say that Frank could have told Annalise about her father's death. I'm not sure that it would have also been written at the time of his death last month. 

They don't have to have written all seasons at the time of filming this though - they just have to have written up until the murder/wedding night (mid-season break) by the time they finished editing (not filming) this episode.

[rubyred]

Heheheheheheheheheh "White Tears" heheheheheheh.

I dropped this show after Wes died... felt like even though he was annoying etc he was the equivalent of the moral center of the show and I couldn't enjoy it without that tension as part of the narrative. But I recently binged seasons 3 & 4, watched some YT reactions...and I realized that, since in real life we are, IMO, in The Darkest Timeline, this show has been just what I needed. It is batshit crazy and I am ride-or-die. Calgon, take me away!

 And I don't care about figuring out the mystery beforehand. I don't care if Gabriel is Bonnie's son or if it's "too obvious." I love that this show surprises me with its writing, that Viola Davis is a FORCE. That scenes with her and Liza Weil and Jack Falahee CRACKLE. Even that a more even-keeled Annalise is just as compelling as the loose cannon Annalise (I swear, VD would make me so anxious in early seasons I wasn't sure if I was actually being entertained or traumatized by her performance. Especially when she'd use her Annalise-fu to mind-fuck Wes.)

So yeah, flash forward to Dead Wedding, Bloody Bonnie, Christopher Crying in the Snow....what I want to know is, who is Frank talking to?! Everything else will be revealed in whatever batshit way the producers want, and I will be sitting on my sofa with a glass of cava, eating it all up with a spoon.

[ShowsILoveToHate]

1 hour ago, NUguy514 said:

 

I wouldn't put too much stock in Annalise's grief-stricken reaction to the dead person: Viola Davis didn't know that Wes was intended to be the dead body when Annalise had the hysterical reaction at the end of the Season 3 premier, so she was just acting as if it were someone very important to her character; it just so happened that it turned out to be exactly that.  The same thing could be happening this season: like, Annalise was completely bereft, but the body could turn out to be New DA Guy whom I can't stand and about whom Annalise probably wouldn't give to shits.  Or it could be Nate or Asher or someone she actually does care about.  We'll see.

I remember reading that the showrunner Pete Nowalk knew that it'd be one of K5 who died; he hadn't made his final decision until it was closer to him writing the actual episode, but he knew enough to tell VD that her acting should reflect how AK would feel upon learning that someone that she cared about VERY much was going to die.  I have no doubt that it's the same situation now; VD might not know yet who dies at the wedding, but the writers do, or at least have it narrowed down, and so they told her to what degree to show grief and anguish.  KWIM? 

[Drumpf1737]

7 hours ago, helenamonster said:

It's ironic how all the reasons that Annalise had for picking the K5 are now moot. Wes is dead, Asher's father disowned him then committed suicide, Laurel's father is in prison, and Michaela broke up with Aiden. And now she's just stuck with these kids who keep leaving dead bodies on her doorstep.

Right! I wish they could show just a bit of gratitude for the woman that went to jail and still didn't rat them out. My fanfic is the kids get convicted and sent to prison. We the audience watch as they are marched to prison like the last episode of Seinfeld as Asher prattles on about 20 years not being that much time when you really think about it.

7 hours ago, helenamonster said:

But her reasons for picking Wes were not just because of his troubled background. She felt responsible for what happened to his mom, and her brain fused him together with the baby she lost when she was out in Ohio. Annalise's reasons for choosing Wes were deeply personal and tied to unshakeable guilt and responsibility for what his life became when his mom killed herself.

I stand corrected. 

[colorbars]

11 hours ago, LoveIsJoy said:

Since Frank and Oliver are keeping tabs on Gabriel, it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that Gabriel is also tracking them.  If he’s as smart as the show wants us to believe, he's probably got his own apartment under surveillance and has already seen footage that Frank broke in last episode.  And as an earlier poster suggested, he may even have two computers.  I have no idea if any of this is true or just another red herring, but it makes me wonder.

ETA:  I was under the impression that Bonnie was raped by her father, and so her son would be a product of incest.  It’s a surprise to me that so many are speculating that Gabriel is possibly Bonnie’s son; the actor appears biracial.  What did I miss?

 

Given that he has fake IDs and stuff, and seems to be thinking Annalise and co are shady, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's a step ahead from Frank in the surveillance.

In the episode where it was first confirmed that she had a baby through flashbacks of how Annalise and Bonnie first met, it was also revealed that Bonnie was not only raped by her father growing up, but that he took her to city hall (where he worked as a janitor) and let councilmen and whomever else rape her, too. She said on the stand that she as being raped by "dozens and dozens of men" at the time, and she has no idea who the father of her baby was.

9 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

I wouldn't put too much stock in Annalise's grief-stricken reaction to the dead person: Viola Davis didn't know that Wes was intended to be the dead body when Annalise had the hysterical reaction at the end of the Season 3 premier, so she was just acting as if it were someone very important to her character; it just so happened that it turned out to be exactly that.  The same thing could be happening this season: like, Annalise was completely bereft, but the body could turn out to be New DA Guy whom I can't stand and about whom Annalise probably wouldn't give to shits.  Or it could be Nate or Asher or someone she actually does care about.  We'll see.

While this is true (they supposedly didn't even decide on Wes being the dead body until they were filming episode 7 of season 3), they would have to make it make sense. Even if Viola didn't know who's death she was reacting to when she was told to react that strongly, it will be the writers jobs to make her reaction appropriate, whether it's about who dies at the wedding or something else, so the intensity of her reaction should definitely not be ignored.

ETA: A random thought that just occurred to me: I feel the like nurse would have told Nate the race of the baby that was brought in and taken - not to mention you'd think the medical file on this kidnapped child would have his race listed as well - but he thought the white kid with Julie could've been Bonnie's son, so... I mean, I can easily see them ignoring this fact, but it's the first thing that's making me waver on my Gabriel Is Definitely Bonnie's Kid stance.

Edited October 21, 2018 by colorbars

[Happytobehere]

18 hours ago, helenamonster said:

1) It's still far enough from the midseason finale for this to be the obvious answer, but right now I'm going with Nate as the person Bonnie killed out in the snow. She has his phone, and he's somebody I could easily buy Annalise being that upset over losing. My questions are more about: what circumstances led to Bonnie being okay to calmly kill Nate (or put him out of his misery?), was Nate trying to take Christopher and why, and why is Michaela looking for him.

2) Tegan is precious. Protect her at all costs.

3) Meanwhile, Michaela's obsession with regaining Tegan's approval has gone from pathetic to creepy, honestly. If we didn't know Michaela so well, I'd warn Tegan to watch her back, this girl's got a few screws coming loose. I don't know why she can't just get over it and move on. She's the one that torpedoed the relationship.

4) It's ironic how all the reasons that Annalise had for picking the K5 are now moot. Wes is dead, Asher's father disowned him then committed suicide, Laurel's father is in prison, and Michaela broke up with Aiden. And now she's just stuck with these kids who keep leaving dead bodies on her doorstep.

1) I feel very strongly that in order for all this game playing to make sense, the dead body has to be a major person in the cast. For me, that leaves out Gabriel, Tegan, Timothy Hutton’s character, and Bonnie’s creepy-ugly boyfriend from Nip/Tuck. At this point, that leaves Nate and Oliver. Oliver would make sense if the actor playing Connor is leaving and this serves as the reason he walks away. Although overall, I suspect this could be the final season.

2) The more I see Tegan, the more I love her. I don’t want the show to saddle Texan with the emotional black hole that is Michaela.

3) Michaela is clearly unstable and she is in my opinion a stalker in the making. She has always come across as unbalanced to me. Her desperation for approval and her continuing sabatoging of relationships is more than youthful inexperience and need.

4) Until you said this, I hadn’t thought about that. Annalise picked the five for specific reasons and all they have done and continue to do is make her life a living nightmare with very little payoff. Maybe this is the ultimate kharma and explains why Annalise has yet to jettison this toxic bunch. She feels like she deserves what has happened to her because of why she brought them into her orbit.

[skotnikov]

17 hours ago, secnarf said:

By this point though, shouldn't they at the very least have all the episodes for the season written? They could have chosen to edit out that scene if it turned out it was Bonnie's DA boyfriend (I also cannot stand him).

 

Not really. Nowak (or whatever his name is) in all interviews says that he is proud that they write episodes the very last minute, so the resolution surprises even him. They may not even know who's body it is. And honestly I dunno they'd kill someone else from the DA office AGAIN. They almost deserted it already. 

Edited October 21, 2018 by skotnikov

[blackwing]

On 10/19/2018 at 6:25 PM, Kira53 said:

Should I watch this season?  I have the 4 episodes on the DVR and no one else to ask.

I am enjoying the season so far.  It’s still far better than most of what is currently airing on network TV.  I offer some reasons why I am really liking it.  1) Viola Davis.  She could make “Glitter” and “Gigli” watchable.  2) Tegan Tegan Tegan.   Breakout star of the season.  3) Wes is gone.  I loathed him.  4) A decreased focus on Laurel. 

[possibilities]

I have no opinion about who was killed, nor do I have a particular desire to see any of them offed. But Asher is still unaccounted for, so if it's a major character, I think he's still a possibility.

If Oliver is dead, that will completely destroy Connor, and we've already seen Connor fall apart, so that doesn't look interesting narratively. Also, they're teasing us about Oliver being missing, so the reveal that he actually is the victim is kind of too  obvious for this show.

I don't want them to kill off Nate right after killing off Wes. And also, so few people are invested in Nate, that it's kind of hard to think of his death as motivating and engaging characters or fans that much.

Asher is already marginalized from he group and looking sad and desperate, so him dying to me seems kind of anti-climactic.

I really have no idea what they are doing, but apparently the writers don't either, so I guess it makes sense.

Edited October 22, 2018 by possibilities

[Milaxx]

On 10/19/2018 at 2:34 AM, colorbars said:

I think it makes sense that whatever Frank tells Annalise is separate than whatever Bonnie's up to. Or it's a different time line (before or after), because I don't see Annalise just leaving the reception like that if it was about someone dying at the wedding. I can't remember if Frank was in wedding clothes or not. I'd assume he was invited, but I can't recall if it looked like he went.

Going by her breaking down at her place, they definitely want us to think Frank told her that Nate was dead, but I could see it being something like her mother died. Though why Frank would tell her that in the middle of the wedding reception, I have no idea. But that's my only guess for what he could've told her that was separate from the Bonnie stuff that would elicit such a reaction.

This make sense. Or it could be her father since the actor who played her dad recently passed in real life. 

On 10/19/2018 at 7:25 PM, Kira53 said:

Should I watch this season?  I have the 4 episodes on the DVR and no one else to ask.

I'd say yes. I think the writing has been pretty good this season.

[Kira53]

I thank everyone that replied to my question about whether or not you recommended that I watch this season. Now I just need a time to binge watch.  

Edited October 30, 2018 by Kira53
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