S03.E04: Vietnam

[Court]

My dad fought in Vietnam and he does not talk about it. This is pretty typical and I'm not surprised Jack didn't tell his kids or wife much about it. My kids have occasionally asked him questions and even then it's a one or two word sentence to answer them. They know he fought and is a veteran. I know he still has nightmares. I do know he has his own tradition on veteran's day but he does it solo. It was a horrifying time and I don't blame anyone for not wanting to relive it and regale people with stories. 

[dcubed]

On 10/17/2018 at 7:34 PM, voiceover said:

 

On the other hand:  

I was born long after the Korean War concluded.  But I grew up loving M*A*S*H (eh, seasons 2 through Radar's exit, anyway).  Loving it so much that my brother and I would recite whole pages of the show's dialogue at dinner.  Loving it so that it was always & ever Hawkeye Pierce (not Mary Richards) as my idol.

As an interesting note, MASH, the tv series, while set in the Korean War, was really about Vietnam.  The film came out in 1970 and was written by a Korea war vet about his experiences but the tv series were influenced by the Vietnam war.

[Violetgoblin6]

Finally watched it. 

Well, I guess we know what happened to Jack's heart in the future. People on here were correct, he was a ticking time bomb.

I admit I cried when Jack's friend in Nam held his head in his hand-Memphis! Once again showing how the past informs the future and the painting of the family done by Kevin. 

Also saw some more of the painting with Jack's grumpy grandfather. 

I want to see what happened with Nicky. Guess they'll drag Vietnam out. 

[Violetgoblin6]

On 10/16/2018 at 10:40 PM, ams1001 said:

Damn. If I had been born a day later, my number would have been called. (Well, except for the fact that I wasn't born until 1975, and I'm a girl.)

(Interestingly enough, my birthday was the cutoff for starting school, so if I had been born a day later, I would have started kindergarten a year later. Funny the difference a day can make. Sometimes I wonder how my life would be different if my birthday was the 2nd instead of the 1st.) 

One day early for me. March 7 and I'm 8. Born in 74 here and a girl. 

[CrystalBlue]

On 10/16/2018 at 7:28 PM, Roxie said:

I'm guessing that those who found this episode boring didn't live through the Vietnam era.  I found my stomach going into knots and my fingernails digging into my palms during the draft lottery scene. It was horrendous.

Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.  You win the Internet today.  Seriously.

This is the only TIU episode that left me in tears.

[Violetgoblin6]

On 10/17/2018 at 11:25 AM, Jodithgrace said:

My husband's draft number was so high, I used to joke that they would draft women and children before him. But his best friend was #20 and he had to fake diabetes to get out of it. Another friend of his went to Canada. It was a very difficult time to live through. A college deferment only lasted as long as you were in school. 

Still, i found this episode very predictable. As soon as Jack's black friend started going on about his 90 days to go and his plans for the future, I knew he was a goner. My only surprise is that he wasn't actually killed. I predicted every other the beat in the episode as well, especially that Nick would be missing when Jack woke up in the motel. It didn't help that we already know that Nick would go to Vietnam and that Jack would go also. I was glad that that the established Jack's heart issues, though I agree it was a bit of overkill. Still, Overkill is this show's trademark. 

I, too, wondered about the fate of those other babies born on October 18th. 

My dad was # 152, but he was too old for the draft. Thank God. However he'd been in the army since 61' and had done his time. 

As a Type I diabetic (just got out of the hospital, which is why I'm late watching the show) how does one fake diabetes and get away with it? 

 

@countygirl gorgeous posts! I 

[debraran]

3 hours ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

My dad was # 152, but he was too old for the draft. Thank God. However he'd been in the army since 61' and had done his time. 

As a Type I diabetic (just got out of the hospital, which is why I'm late watching the show) how does one fake diabetes and get away with it? 

 

@countygirl gorgeous posts! I 

This article glosses over some ways but if you knew a doctor who would help you. Heel spurs don't have to be debilitating or keep you from work, some don't even know they have them, but if your doctor says they are very painful, etc. it can count. I don't think deferments were always fair but that is life.

https://vietnamwarbyjohn.weebly.com/dodging-the-draft.html

[Violetgoblin6]

On 10/19/2018 at 8:58 AM, readheaded said:

This.  My dad's from Baltimore where Bethlehem Steel and any other number of well-paying manufacturing jobs were where the blue-collar kids went to work.  My dad wasn't college-bound, and didn't care for school (he's a more hands-on kind of person-plumbing and foundation work aside, he literally built his own house).  He was also drafted and served, but ended up spending his service time in Germany.  The idea that the college-bound were exempt is horrifying to me.

Same, I found myself horrified about the college exemption. My dad left high school his senior year to voluntarily join the army (Fort Eustis VA). Not a college/academic guy at all (same as my younger brother) . Worked hard as a contractor until he retired in 03" and built our house, like your dad. I'm with my parents right now actually and my dad was saying how his younger friends went up to Canada to check it out, "just in case." Another entered college to avoid being drafted. My dad, "I wanted to go to Vietnam, I had nothing going on and had ended a horrible relationship." He'd accumulated many years in the army by 1970 and was honorably discharged before the draft. 

My mom had a hard time watching as she lost a friend named Bill there and recalls the horror of Vietnam. "Every night on the news, all the bodies and deaths. It was the first time war was covered on the news." She watches Vietnam movies/shows but becomes emotional. My dad was an infant during War World II and studying it is his passion. Now retired he watches documentaries on it all day long, anything he can get his hands on. And the military channel. 

[Colleenna]

On 10/20/2018 at 9:56 AM, Pallas said:

Post-Vietnam Jack spends his first year back unable to settle into a job other than card shark, until he is a moonshadow away from knocking over a bar: a scheme that likely would have ended with him jailed or killed. For the rest of his life he will take up drinking -- for hours after work when the kids are young, then later, on the job and out in the garage -- to escape.

 

Nicky was still in high school in Pittsburgh when the My Lai massacre occurred on March 18, 1968. He won't be in Vietnam until two years later. He was drafted or enlisted following the December 1969 lottery; basic training followed by advanced individual training as an infantryman would put NIcky in Vietnam in the spring of 1970. 

Um, no. Unless Nicky was retarded, he was well out of high school. Wasn't he born October 18, 1948? That would make him 21 at the lottery. 

[ShadowFacts]

31 minutes ago, Colleenna said:

Um, no. Unless Nicky was retarded, he was well out of high school. Wasn't he born October 18, 1948? That would make him 21 at the lottery. 

If he was born in October of 1948, he would have been 19 when My Lai occurred, and possibly still in high school, about to graduate in a couple of months. He could have had a learning disability that impeded his progress, or an illness that kept him out for a semester, different things make people graduate at 19.   In any event, no one involved in the lottery we saw would have been at My Lai, obviously.  Might we see some sort of atrocity, sure, but My Lai itself, no. 

[Colleenna]

9 hours ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

My dad was # 152, but he was too old for the draft. Thank God. However he'd been in the army since 61' and had done his time. 

As a Type I diabetic (just got out of the hospital, which is why I'm late watching the show) how does one fake diabetes and get away with it? 

 

@countygirl gorgeous posts! I 

Back then, they didn't have the sorts of meters and A1c tests that they have now. "Quick" test, which most diabetics used back then, was to pee on a test strip. Guys could slam a lot of high sugar foods/pop for about three days before their physical, and voila, sugar in the urine.....

[lucindabelle]

What a relief they aren't going to do My Lai. I just can't with the Vietnam cliches.

 

I was little during this era, and what I chiefly remember was the normalcy of it, every day on the news you heard the body count like you heard weather and sports. So when it stopped I was like, what?

 

(Of course, dimly aware of protests and things too, and until I was about 10 I seriously thought any minute there was going to be a revolution and we'd all start a new world somewhere they called the promised land etc. etc. My hippy baby sitters have a lot to answer for.)

[Aloeonatable]

Very interesting review of this episode.

 

https://tv.avclub.com/this-is-us-delivers-an-outstanding-episode-about-brothe-1829804343

[DebbieM4]

7 hours ago, Colleenna said:

Back then, they didn't have the sorts of meters and A1c tests that they have now. "Quick" test, which most diabetics used back then, was to pee on a test strip. Guys could slam a lot of high sugar foods/pop for about three days before their physical, and voila, sugar in the urine.....

Yes, there were several ways to "cheat" on medical tests.  And if your family had a doctor as a friend, that could also be helpful.

[Driad]

If medical didn't work, there were other ways.  I met a man who enlisted in the Coast Guard and volunteered for icebreaker duty.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 10/17/2018 at 8:24 PM, cpmomm said:

I also agree with Roxie...you had to live through that era to really feel what was going on. Do viewers  realize the significance of 11:58 pm? If Nick were born two minutes later at midnight his birthday would of been October 19 on his grandfather's birthday that his draft number would of been 241 and not likely to go to war but since he was born on October 18 at 11:58 pm his draft number was 005 and was drafted to the war. If he was born 2 minutes later the whole war thing would not have occurred. Also they could not use the date that Vietnam episode aired as his birthday  because the airing date was October 16 and  the daft number for that birth date was 254 too high of a number to be drafted. 

We get it. Do you really think someone who wasn't born in a certain era could not understand the significance of Nicky being born at 11:58? I thought it was pretty obvious, even for someone who was previously unaware of how the draft worked. I thought this was a sad and fascinating fictionalized piece of history even though I am too young to have been there. However, it was heavy-handed, in typical This is Us fashion and at times that took me out of the story. And while some are saying a younger generation can't appreciate the story, my neighbor (wife of a Vietnam vet, the only person I know irl who watches) skipped this episode because it wasn't something she wanted from her family drama tv show. And she's a big jack fan. 

On 10/17/2018 at 8:00 AM, Jeddah said:

This is a tv show. I think it’s unfair and simplistic to say anyone who doesn’t like this episode must be a lucky member of the younger generation who just doesn’t get it.

Thank you. 

[DebbieM4]

On 10/17/2018 at 8:00 AM, Jeddah said:

This is a tv show. I think it’s unfair and simplistic to say anyone who doesn’t like this episode must be a lucky member of the younger generation who just doesn’t get it.

It seems that quite a lot of us feel the same way. 

 I've seen a lot about Vietnam over the years, and some of it was well done, struck a nerve, brought that time back, and stirred up emotions.  This show did not do that for me.  I couldn't get past the cliches, and (other than the babies in the nursery) it stirred up no emotions at all.  I was bored for most of it.  The subject of Vietnam doesn't guarantee that Boomers will embrace it.  It's how it's written, how it's acted, what story they choose to tell.  If we feel it's not well done, we're not going to relate to it and we're not going to like it. 

If something is well done, it will touch all generations.   (I loved "Lincoln", but I certainly didn't live through that time!)

[methodwriter85]

I would have been a 12, which means I definitely would have been called up. I am an openly gay man and I feel like if I had to face this in 1969, I would have declared myself as openly gay and moved to New York City after. I remember when I was 18 and the Iraq War was raging there was fear about the draft getting reinstated, although that never happened, thank god. I have really terrible eyesight and flat feet, so that would have helped, too.

I'm really glad for Michael Anagrano that he's getting some exposure here. He's mainly done indie movies since he aged out of working child actor status and I think he's done some pretty good work that no has seen, such as the Stanford Prison Experiment.

[PRgal]

5 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I would have been a 12, which means I definitely would have been called up. I am an openly gay man and I feel like if I had to face this in 1969, I would have declared myself as openly gay and moved to New York City after. I remember when I was 18 and the Iraq War was raging there was fear about the draft getting reinstated, although that never happened, thank god. I have really terrible eyesight and flat feet, so that would have helped, too.

I'm really glad for Michael Anagrano that he's getting some exposure here. He's mainly done indie movies since he aged out of working child actor status and I think he's done some pretty good work that no has seen, such as the Stanford Prison Experiment.

Would being gay have had other consequences back in that time?  Though being out wouldn't matter these days...unless they decide to bring back Don't Ask, Don't Tell.  

Michael Anagrano looks SO DIFFERENT with short hair.  I never thought he resembled Justin Hartley in the slightest, but without the hair.....Before that, Nick(y) really looked like he needed to shower.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

Would being gay have had other consequences back in that time?  Though being out wouldn't matter these days...unless they decide to bring back Don't Ask, Don't Tell.  

Yes, back then gays were excluded from all branches of the military.  Some people slipped under the radar, if they wanted to serve, but the policy was enforced until the 90s.  On M*A*S*H that's what Klinger was trying to do - get himself booted. 

[CrystalBlue]

Declaring you were a homosexual back then would not guarantee you get rejected for the draft.  That was a common ruse used by those who didn't want to go to Nam.  You would probably get your ass kicked, told you weren't gay, and when to report to boot camp.  Acting gay back then was comic relief for M*A*S*H but in real life the "openly gay" members of the military were either ostracized, given mental illness discharge, which would follow you for the rest of your life, or just tolerated if you were very, very lucky.  You cannot apply today's laws, standards and sensibilities to what happened in the Vietnam conflict era.

[Jodithgrace]

Quote

As a Type I diabetic (just got out of the hospital, which is why I'm late watching the show) how does one fake diabetes and get away with it? 

As the original poster, I can tell you that my husband's friend did have a friend who was a Doctor and who wrote him a note, along with faking the blood test. However, if it is a mitigating factor, this friend went on to be a well known (Nobel short list) scientist who works on arthritis. 

[tennisgurl]

I think the most affecting part of the episode to me was all the babies being born on the same "lucky" day, knowing that their birthday will be drafted into Vietnam one day. That got legit chills from me. 

[debraran]

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I think the most affecting part of the episode to me was all the babies being born on the same "lucky" day, knowing that their birthday will be drafted into Vietnam one day. That got legit chills from me. 

Me too, being a mom, it made my stomach ache thinking of how it must have been for so many when the draft started. I hope it doesn't go the "left behind kid" or something like that but I have a feeling it will. Some think Nicky will be alive but how can he be away so long? That to me is too weird.

I know many bodies didn't make it home from war but did they ever say he was buried, a funeral? So much of Jack's past, when his mom died, if she died, etc. I hope that is caught up quickly.

Edited October 24, 2018 by debraran

[Bliss]

Finally binge-watched this season and this particular episode made me realize that I am glad I'm a woman. Watching those men at war, what they went through... my thoughts were all over the place... and I'm not sure if I'm just speaking my opinion - all I could think was that most women would not want to be soldiers if they had to watch their peers having their foot explode off their leg. (I know there are women soldiers... and there are lots of women who see ghastly sights... and I know I've lived a mostly privileged life, not having seen war first hand.)

I'm of the Mother Teresa philosophy: would I march against war? No. Would I march FOR peace? Definitely.

My final realization is that if women were in charge, there'd be no (more) wars.

[Red Bridey]

My birthdate was called on the show. Like, top three.  Luckily I am a woman and was too young to serve, but it was a GUT PUNCH to see it on the TV.  I have four brothers, also too young to have been called up.  We lived in Canada throughout the Vietnam War, and I distinctly remember my mother saying we would never return to the US if the draft continued into my oldest brothers' eligibility.  While it was a distant thing during my childhood (we had enough Canadian/Quebec political drama to be afraid of), I do remember there were several young American men teaching in my high school and junior college.  I really didn't wonder why.  Now I know why.  This episode really got to me.

[arabidopsis]

This episode hammered home the point for me that this show is primarily interested in examining the mix of personalities and parenting, and how these things resonate down through generations. If I were to give this particular episode a thesis statement, it’s that Jack’s drive to be “Superman,” which he acquired through a combination of his innate personality and the family that he was raised in, was his deepest flaw, and one that is being carried down through his children.

From that first meeting moment seeing Nicky, where his father made it Jack’s job to protect him, Jack and Nicky were placed on a path.  It wasn’t completely set of course – perhaps if their father had not become an abusive alcoholic, for example, things would have gone differently, but that moment set the stage - Jack would take the weight of the world on his shoulders, and Nicky would never be allowed to come into his own, thanks to Jack stepping in.  Nicky made the choice to go to Vietnam to finally get out from behind Jack’s shadow, which (presumably) ultimately got him killed.  Jack made the choice to follow him – the cost/benefit of which was terrible – even without his heart condition, it was much more likely that the outcome of Jack enlisting would be the ruin of both of them, as opposed to Jack somehow being able to save Nicky.  It will be interesting to see the nature Nicky’s death and of Jack’s guilt over it – I’m guessing his guilt will take the form of, I should have been able to save him once I got to Vietnam, when in reality, whatever minuscule responsibility Jack has came way before that, in his inability to let Nicky stand up and be his own chooser/protector.  Ultimately, after lucking out and surviving the foolish “Superman” choice to go to Vietnam despite his heart condition, a version of this same scenario does kill him – needing to be the hero for his daughter and save the dog.  St. Jack isn’t supposed to be seen as admirable trait, but detrimental, and ultimately fatal.

We’ve seen throughout the couple of seasons now how this St. Jack persona has resonated, to damaging effects, through his family:

With Rebecca, he simultaneously places her on a pedestal, and diminishes/infantilizes her (all the major decisions he makes with no input from her; the horrid reaction he has when she tries to have something of her own with the band) because he needs to be her superhero and the center of her world in order to feel like he’s “doing his job” and worthy of her love. 

Little Randall’s  personality is to be a perfectionist and a pleaser, and he has taken on the Super-Jack persona most literally – trying to be all things to all people, all the time.  Interestingly, in his desperation to live up to what he believes were his father’s heroics, he is directing his hero-complex outward (rather than towards his family as Jack did), and Randall’s family is therefore being severely neglected while drug around on the roller-coaster ride of his causes.  Randall’s Jack issues are still in an uphill climb.  Hopefully they peak this season and he can start moving forward.

Little Kevin’s personality is one that seems to require a lot of external validation to feel worthy and loved.  He maybe didn’t get as much individual attention from his parents as was ideal for his personality type when he was a small child, so by the time he’s a teenager, he’s shutting down emotionally, looking to get his external validation as adoration (via sports) rather than genuine love and affection, and lashing out towards his family - particularly the person he has wrongly pinned his resentment on – Randall.  With Kevin, Jack passed down addiction to avoid dealing with unpleasant emotions, keep up the strong façade, don’t let anyone see you crack – no one can be Superman all the time, so rather than admit that it’s unsustainable to go it alone like that and instead work on forming genuine partnerships, or try to find relatively healthy outlets (say by going out and playing a round of golf where you might vent a bit about your family, rather than acting self-righteous in public and drinking in private in Jack’s case, or opening up to your family and letting them know you’re in trouble, even if they have heavy things going on too in Kevin’s case), they turned to alcohol/pills.  This is of course fear at it’s heart – fear of falling apart, being unworthy and unlovable.  I think Kevin hit his peak Jack-based issues last season with the addiction storyline, and started to make some progress during therapy that may be continued this season with a romantic relationship in which he is required to do a lot of the emotional heavy-lifting, and his exploration of Jack’s history.

Little Kate is tougher for me to decipher – I think the writers have put so much emphasis on her weight, through all eras of her life, that they have left her a bit blank.  She’s certainly the neutral ground between her two brothers, and with the dog that she rescued, they seemed to be trying to cast her as a rescuer of the vulnerable, and of course there's the singing, but somehow it seems like her entire young character is cast in relation to others - not as conventionally attractive/good at singing as Rebecca, peacemaker to her brothers, rescuer of the dog, daddy's girl to Jack.  But maybe that's the point? With Kate, Jack recreated his relationship with Nicky in a way – he saw her vulnerability and her self-doubt, and he constantly stepped in to cast his “protective” shadow over her to try to remove all of her pain and struggles.  Understandable of course.  No one wants to see their child in pain, and once again, it’s Jack’s sole identity to be the protector of those he loves – who is he if not that?  But now we have an adult Kate who never developed her own persona or the emotional resilience to deal with life’s inevitable ups and downs, and has a tendency to cast herself as permanent victim.  I’m not sure if she’s at peak Jack-related issues now, or if there’s more to come – the depression/IVF storylines have to potential to go either way at this point.

After that loooonnng side-trip, back to “Vietnam”: together with what we’ve been watching for 2+ seasons on this show, this episode said to me that Jack was a tragically flawed person who passed that baggage on through his children, but who did the best he could, and frankly remarkably well given the circumstances.  Further, I think that the strides that Jack made in improving from the baggage received from his parents are meant to provide hope/set up the character development that Randall, Kevin and Kate will have going forward.  My hope is that we will see Randall smacked in the face with how his hero-complex is detrimental to his family (especially his marriage), we’ll see Kevin continue to take down the walls around to feelings and make himself vulnerable to appropriate people so he can form genuine connections, and that we’ll see Kate develop some inner resources to both love herself and hold herself accountable for her own emotions, and from that place be able to be the support that Toby needs in a healthy way (rather than what was suggested to be the co-dependence she had with Kevin initially).  I am really hoping that Kate becomes a parent (however that happens), and that we can see her work through her touchy relationship with Rebecca by experiencing the other side of the parent-child relationship, especially given that I think Toby is likely to over-indulge their child, as Jack did with Kate.  This storyline could also finally open up some insight/growth for post-Jack Rebecca, which I think is way overdue.

With all the talk up-thread about why people did or didn’t like this episode, I think it would be interesting to run a poll concerning how one feels about spoilers – if someone tells you the ending, does it ruin your enjoyment of watching the story unfold?  If so, I think it’s much more likely that you would not have enjoyed this episode. Unfortunately, I think it’s also likely that in the long run, this show will continue to frustrate you because I believe it will continue to focus on how the details of the past resonate with who the characters are in the present (and to a lesser extent the future).    Personally, I am all in for all the spoilers, all the time.  I want to know endings so I don’t have to be stressed about the outcome, and can instead enjoy experiencing and analyzing the journey to get there.  Perhaps it’s the scientist in me, but generally I find the “why” and the “how” infinitely more fascinating than the “what,” so I’m totally on board with the episode, and with what I think this show is trying to do.  This doesn’t, of course, make me more right or wrong than people who are more interested in outcomes, and/or who aren’t interested in episodes like this – it’s just one of the many wonderful ways in which our personalities and backgrounds make us uniquely interesting people.  I will say that the glimpses of future they’re now apparently going to be throwing in feel like a bit of a cheat to me to keep the spoiler-phobic invested in this show.  I think that’s a mistake because they’re unlikely to be satisfying to the spoiler-haters, and and because they’re purposefully vague, they’re just annoying to a spoiler-lover like me.

[Scarlett45]

On 10/21/2018 at 9:00 AM, dcubed said:

Yes, you have just summed up my childhood.  My dad was an alcoholic.  He did not miss work.  He did not physically or emotionally harm any of us.  He was funny.  He was loving.  But once he started drinking, he didn’t stop until bedtime. That meant he didn’t meet nighttime commitments so if one wanted or needed him to do things, you had to catch him during the day.  My mother was the most affected, not us, because he was an unreliable partner and poor with money management (he bought a lot of rounds at the bar).   But he was not mean or abusive.

Thank you for sharing your perspective. 

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

St. Jack isn’t supposed to be seen as admirable trait, but detrimental, and ultimately fatal.

I loved your whole post, arabidopsis, especially this. I have never liked the opinion that Jack was a saint, he was far from it. 

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 7:57 AM, Arcadiasw said:

I'm female but I put my birthdate in anyway. Only me and one of my brothers would have not been drafted and I have four brothers. As others have said, I can't imagine how scary that was watching that on TV. I'm younger generation but I like this episode but I also like war documentaries from Vietnam, World War II, etc.

I typed in mine (female)--101 (1 day off of not being called; my husband's 172--4 days off of not being called; my oldest son 15; and my youngest --not called.

That's a great website--because I was moved by that scene watching the show, but typing my son's birthday and getting 15 just was a punch in the stomach.

Back to the show--I enjoyed it thought it was not my favorite episode. I did catch the moment of Jack and how he got the breathing thing to calm down. I think fewer time jumps would have been helpful.

On a random note, I did recognize Michael Ironside as Jack's drinking grandfather. I've been a fan of his since V (the original miniseries), Top Gun and arc on ER.

[MaryPatShelby]

On 10/16/2018 at 9:05 PM, CleoCaesar said:

It's rare that I so completely lose interest in an episode that I space out for entire scenes.

That was just brutally boring. At some point I started mentally listing actually interesting things the show could explore: how Rebecca and the kids moved on after Jack died, how Rebecca and Miguel got together, what caused Kevin to cheat on Sophie, how Randall fared in college and got so successful, how Annie and Tess feel about Deja joining their family, literally anything about Kate that isn’t about her weight or her mommy issues.

 

Can we be friends?  Because I was making the same list!!

On 10/18/2018 at 2:14 PM, ThisIsMe said:

Very interesting to read all of the "I was bored"  and "get back to the present day" comments about this episode.

For me, that just reinforces the stereotype that millenials and Gen Xers don't really give a damn if it's not relevant to them.  

 

Wow.  It's not conceiveable to you that people of any age give a damn about issues more important than 40 minutes of a fictional TV show?

[love2lovebadtv]

On 10/22/2018 at 10:11 AM, Colleenna said:

Um, no. Unless Nicky was retarded, he was well out of high school. Wasn't he born October 18, 1948? That would make him 21 at the lottery. 

Ouch. Retarded? I agree he was likely out of high school but if he wasn't, I still wouldn't call him retarded for any reason. 

[ShadowFacts]

I was listening to an NPR program in the car the other day, and Chuck Hagel (once a Nebraska Senator and Secretary of Defense) was talking about how he and his brother Tom both served in Vietnam, one drafted, one enlisted, and in the same rifle company.  His brother survived, though they both were wounded more than once.  What seemed farfetched about Jack and Nicky serving together now seems a little more believable to me.  I doubt it was common, but it did actually happen.

[Morlock]

I feel like the writers are in love with the idea of jumping back and forward in time so they were short on ideas and thought "Hey, wasn't there a big war around the time this guy was in his late teens/early 20's?"OMG there was, Goggle it! Oh man, Vietnam, lets do that!" And of course that brought on the misery of the Uncle and how he must be saved by the terrible trio. 

[mostlylurking]

I am certainly not downplaying Vietnam or any war, and per usual I thought the acting was top notch. However, I have to say that after last seasons final episode, with Kevin saying they can all finally exhale and let go of the past, I kind of was hoping that would happen a little this season. Of course jack will always be the character that binds them together, but I was hoping after two seasons and finally finding out how jack died we could move on a little and start focusing more on the present and everyone moving forward. Again, not disparaging anyone’s experience but I really didn’t need this episode on the context of this show. My humble opinion 🙂