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Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

MarkHB

By MarkHB
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Ruby25
Ruby25

Zack Snyder admitted in an interview that they killed Superman because he didn't know what to do with him. And that he felt that way during Man of Steel too, that he just doesn't know what to do with

Dandesun
Dandesun

Cap's my absolute favorite in the MCU and I never thought they'd be able to pull him off in the movies. And I know that some find him boring because he's such a good guy. Okay, that's a matter of tast

VCRTracking
VCRTracking

I disagree. Marvel movies may not have big operatic, emotional moments but there are little moments in them that have humanity.

GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

(edited)

I FUCKING HATE Affleck and Snyder for making me hate Batman.

I think I'll just have myself a marathon of the Bale movies and Batman:The Animated Series/Superman:The Animated Series/Justice League/Justice League Unlimited/Batman/Superman:Public Enemies, Apocalypse/JL:Doom beginning on March 25. Just BECAUSE.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
  • Love 2
Bruinsfan

Bruinsfan

If they get Henry to whip it out on camera, all will be forgiven as far as I'm concerned!

 

The trailers I've been seeing lately have been so off putting.  Especially Batman telling Superman that he was going make him a man.  It's a terrible line and makes Batman sound like he's going to rape Superman.

At this point every time I hear the trailer I can't help but think of this:

https://youtu.be/tEx8__ie6bg?t=1m23s

lion10

lion10

(edited)

I'm concerned by the amount of negativity I see on this board.  At least give the movie a chance before mocking it.  And it would help to realize that the MCU's movie formula isn't the only way to write a superhero film.

 

I have to say the more clips of the actual movie I see, the better the movie looks.  I'm especially interested in seeing the court scene because seeing such a good and powerful person like Superman being questioned could be very cool if they do it right.

 

ETA:  The critics who've already seen advanced showings of Batman v Superman seem to really like it.  It's been favorably compared to the animated series.

Edited by lion10
  • Love 3
lion10

lion10

I think the trailers have given us more than enough fodder for mockery already.

 

Eh, imo the only bad trailer was the second one with the Doomsday reveal.  Trailer 3 was excellent, especially with the Batman takedown opening.  I feel like people are too used to the lighthearted way Marvel does hero movies and so when DC takes a more serious tone they automatically think it's too dark.  I've got my concerns about the movie but I'm going to watch it with an open mind.  I'm just hyped to see Batman and Superman on the screen together for the first time ever.

  • Love 2
GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

(edited)

I've already stated why I'm not going to pay any money to see this movie. That said, in my opinion, the critics that compared this movie to the Animated series, are smoking some serious CRACK. Eisenberg wishes he comes anywhere NEAR the awesomeness that was Clancy Brown's Lex; Affleck isn't anywhere in the vicinity of the awesomeness that is KevinFucking!Conroy's Batman. And Timm's World's Finest was and is EONS better than whatever rivalry/hate or assholeness this movie is trying to portray. Yeah, Conroy's Bats was an asshole, but there was no hate or whatever those scenes of Affleck's Batman determined to take Supes down.

I'm not explaining myself very well. All I can say is whatever I've seen so far? Deserves my mockery/negativity. And it has nothing to do with how MCU makes their movies, because I'm a DC fan first, and Bats is my number one hero. So my absolutely loathing this version of him, is saying a lot!

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
  • Love 5
Bruinsfan

Bruinsfan

Yeah, I'm a lifelong DC fan who only stopped reading the comics a few years ago because the grimdarkification and constant reboots became too painful; as I care less about most of the Marvel heroes I'm not as bothered when they're handled poorly. But I never liked Miller's approach to superheroes even when it was new and all the rage back in the 80s, so Snyder taking that as his worshipful inspiration for Superman really rubs me the wrong way. (I thought the darker tone of Nolan's movies suited Batman's solo efforts perfectly, and really liked the first two, but a Batman AND Superman story should incorporate some of the tone and spirit of the latter as well as the former.)

  • Love 3
MarkHB

MarkHB

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Everyone has been really good so far, but I want to reiterate the Movies board spoiler policy:

 

Once a movie has been widely released in theatres in the United States, their specific movie thread will no longer need spoiler tags. Please proceed with caution if you have not seen the film. Before wide release, spoiler tags are only necessary if you've seen advanced screenings or sharing leaked script information.

 

Wide Release for this movie is effectively Thursday night, March 24, with the preview showings.  Please spoiler tag anything from viewings before then, including the IMAX fan previews Monday night.

lion10

lion10

Yeah, I'm a lifelong DC fan who only stopped reading the comics a few years ago because the grimdarkification and constant reboots became too painful; as I care less about most of the Marvel heroes I'm not as bothered when they're handled poorly. But I never liked Miller's approach to superheroes even when it was new and all the rage back in the 80s, so Snyder taking that as his worshipful inspiration for Superman really rubs me the wrong way. (I thought the darker tone of Nolan's movies suited Batman's solo efforts perfectly, and really liked the first two, but a Batman AND Superman story should incorporate some of the tone and spirit of the latter as well as the former.)

 

Well Snyder has said that Clark's character is steadily developing over the course of several movies, including Batman v Superman, to become the Superman from the comics that everyone knows.  This isn't All Star Superman where the character is at his peak in terms of experience and he's reached a kind of benevolent self-assured steady state.  Superman at this point is more like if he were the star of a Year One comic.  He's still figuring things out and making mistakes.  I don't know why so many people want Superman fully formed right out of the gate.  Where would his character go from there?  Of course, this is easier said if you agree overall with what Zack Snyder did for Man of Steel, which I mostly do.  The massive destruction can be explained away as what happens when super strong extremely durable people who can fly can fight, and only one of the four beings care about casualties at all.  I even agree with Superman killing Zod, because how else could that fight have ended?  

  • Love 1
Bruinsfan

Bruinsfan

John Byrne's Man of Steel is one of my all-time favorite comics stories, so my objection is not to a Year One story for Superman in theory. But there were a lot of deviations in tone from the core Superman concept about this particular approach. My problem is not so much that the super fights were destructive, it's that the destruction was lovingly fetishized in too-long scenes. And that so much more weight was given, at least in terms of being acknowledged in the movie, to the contributions of Clark's fathers than to those of his mothers. And that Jonathan Kent was apparently trying to raise Clark to be a selfish, paranoid hermit rather than a morally upstanding man who puts others first. And that Jonathan effectively committed suicide in the most ridiculous and unnecessary manner possible. And that Zod was portrayed with all the subtlety and nuance of Snidely Whiplash. And the Flesh Gordon dildo-rockets—oh my God, is there no one who can pull Snyder aside and point out how this stuff looks?!? (There were things I liked: this was my hands-down favorite ever cinematic Lois Lane, and I thought most everyone's performances except Michael Shannon's were superb, and the flight sequences and SFX in general were spectacular.)

  • Love 6
wanderingstar

wanderingstar

(edited)
OH.MY.GOD. I wasn't quick enough to grab my remote and hit the fast forward button and saw and heard (MY EARS!!)

 

This movie looks so bad. It looks like a movie that's trying hard to be Very Serious...and failing badly.

 

This isn't about Marvel vs. DC for me; it a Snyder thing.

 

My eyes and ears are still recovering from the last 20 minutes of Man of Steel.

Edited by Gillian Rosh
  • Love 2
ribboninthesky1

ribboninthesky1

I plan to see the movie, but I totally understand why the trailers are leaving some cold. Trailers are meant to stimulate interest in a film.  At the very least, Bruce Wayne/Batman comes off as sophomoric, which I suspect was not the intent.  I'm hoping that there's more to the film than what's in the trailers.  Truth be told, if Cavill wasn't in it, I'm not sure I'd bother.    

  • Love 2
lion10

lion10

I plan to see the movie, but I totally understand why the trailers are leaving some cold. Trailers are meant to stimulate interest in a film.  At the very least, Bruce Wayne/Batman comes off as sophomoric, which I suspect was not the intent.  I'm hoping that there's more to the film than what's in the trailers.  Truth be told, if Cavill wasn't in it, I'm not sure I'd bother.    

 

I've heard that there's a lot more to the film than what the trailers show.  But yeah, the main reason I'm seeing this movie is because I'm looking forward to seeing the personalities of Superman and Batman bounce off each other.  That, and Wonder Woman!

Bruinsfan

Bruinsfan

I'm loyal to Cavill, and the little snippets I've seen of Wonder Woman are encouraging enough that I'd probably override my reservations about the rest of the movie and buy a ticket just to see her on the big screen for the first time. But if it were Brandon Routh and no Diana in the trailers I'd take a pass without regret based on what we've been shown so far.

stealinghome

stealinghome

I'm going to wait to see what reviews say about Wonder Woman/Gal Gadot, as she's probably going to be the make-or-break element of the movie for me. I'm drawn to the Superman stuff but turned off by the Batman stuff and massively turned off by the fact that you just know Batman is going to come out of this movie ahead because of Snyder's grim and gritty fanboy bs. So...it's Wonder Woman for me. If she gets rave reviews, I'll probably see the movie; if she doesn't, pass with mild apologies to Henry Cavill and Amy Adams.

  • Love 1
Perfect Xero

Perfect Xero

(edited)

I actually liked most of Man of Steel... up until the third act destruction porn. But to end on a positive note, it seems they've acknowledged some of the criticisms of it in this one.

 

I'm the opposite, the only thing I like about Man of Steel (other that Cavill and some of the other performances) was the 20 minutes of destruction porn at the end.

 

 

Man of Steel would be like a Batman story where the first act had Thomas Wayne beat the crap out of the mugger in Crime Alley, and then the next 12 years were a montage of Bruce growing up happy with his family having and making Gotham a better place through their philanthropic efforts, but then Bruce decides to become Batman anyway because he just wants to beat up criminals like his dad did that one time.

Edited by Perfect Xero
Advance35

Advance35

Well the premier came and went and judging by the reactions, this movie is pretty good.  I think it's mostly opinions, I didn't see any spoilers but I'm glad this movie is purported to be awesome.  I've always been more Marvel then DC but even I am getting swept up in the epic of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman on the big screen.

 

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman_vs_superman/the-first-reactions-from-the-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice-a132330

  • Love 3
revbfc

revbfc

Well the premier came and went and judging by the reactions, this movie is pretty good. I think it's mostly opinions, I didn't see any spoilers but I'm glad this movie is purported to be awesome. I've always been more Marvel then DC but even I am getting swept up in the epic of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman on the big screen.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman_vs_superman/the-first-reactions-from-the-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice-a132330

I've been sold on this from day one; even with my initial reservations on Gal Godot as WW (which were squashed as soon as I saw the first promo image). I'm just glad my faith in this project was not misplaced.

  • Love 1
MarkHB

MarkHB

  • Author

When do the spoiler tags get lifted?  Thursday?  (I won't be seeing it until Sunday, so I need to know when to start avoiding this thread.)

 

I updated the pinned post at the top of the page.  With the permission of the overall Movies mods, the spoiler tags come off in this thread after the 6 Pm Thursday night preview shows (since most of the advance ticket sales to date have been for those). 

  • Love 1
Perfect Xero

Perfect Xero

It's at 32% on Rotten Tomatoes right now.

 

 

No major blockbuster in years has been this incoherently structured, this seemingly uninterested in telling a story with clarity and purpose. It grumbles along for what feels like forever, jinking from subplot to subplot, until two shatteringly expensive-looking fights happen back to back, and the whole thing crunches to a halt.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/review/

  • Love 1
Rina99

Rina99

(edited)

Well, it's at 41% now, but the reviews indicate to me that it has all of the flaws of a typical Zack Snyder film, which I was really hoping it would overcome.  Well, I want to see Wonder Woman, so I'll probably end up seeing it this weekend regardless.  But after giving Man of Steel the benefit of the doubt despite the buzz and ending up wholeheartedly agreeing with the critics, I'm not optimistic.

Edited by Rina99
Mars477

Mars477

37% at last look.  Yikes.

 

Well, the only thing I was interested in the movie, which is Gal Gadot as Diana Prince/Wonder Woman, is apparently pretty good, in that she at least manages to show some semblance of a personality during her very limited time on screen.

 

I don't think this is even worth my free Cinemark ticket.

jcin617

jcin617

"Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice" is state of the art epic superhero filmmaking. That's a compliment if you prefer these movies to be ponderous, disorganized and glum, but a warning if you prefer tonal variation from film to film and scene to scene, and have a soft spot for storytelling that actually tells, you know, a story, as opposed to doing an occasionally inspired but mostly just competent job of setting up the next chapter in a Marvel-styled franchise.

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice-2016

Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

a Marvel-styled franchise

 

 

And here we go.  DC will never win in this scenario.  If their movies are tonally different from Marvel's, they'll be called "too dark" or "too grim" or "joyless".  But if they use bright, saturated colors and quippy one-liners, they'll be "copying Marvel".

 

The decision has been made for me.  I'm staying out of this thread until I see the movie.  I have zero interest in seeing review after review of people who insist on comparing it to Marvel and will find it lacking, no matter what.

  • Love 2
Matt K

Matt K

(edited)

Well, it's at 41% now, but the reviews indicate to me that it has all of the flaws of a typical Zack Snyder film, which I was really hoping it would overcome.  Well, I want to see Wonder Woman, so I'll probably end up seeing it this weekend regardless.  But after giving Man of Steel the benefit of the doubt despite the buzz and ending up wholeheartedly agreeing with the critics, I'm not optimistic.

 

I have to wonder if that means the end of the DC films.  Except maybe WW as I thought that film already started production.  Because if Man of Steel proved anything, for WB even if the movie brings in the money (which MoS did, at least around the X-Men movies and Thor) a critical response like this is enough to sink it.  I mean that's the reason we're getting Batman here at all, instead of MoS 2, WB after the poor critical response and word of mouth decided that MoS was a flop.  

 

I personally I haven't seen MoS or would ever see this movie as I would never waste my time seeing another Zack Snyder movie.

 

ETA: CNN's review (via Hollywood Reporter): http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/entertainment/batman-v-superman-review-thr-feat/index.html 

 

No comparison to Marvel at all (for those of you that care) but they still savage the movie all on its own.  

Edited by Matt K
JessePinkman

JessePinkman

And here we go.  DC will never win in this scenario.  If their movies are tonally different from Marvel's, they'll be called "too dark" or "too grim" or "joyless".  But if they use bright, saturated colors and quippy one-liners, they'll be "copying Marvel".

 

But there's comparing the tone of the movies and then there's comparing what they're actually doing from a business point of view. There is no denying that Warner Bros. is trying to establish a shared universe in the same vein as Marvel, that's literally what they're doing because Marvel is making money hand over fist. I'm sure the WB sat around and wondered "If they can do this with a bunch of fucking nobodies just imagine what we can do with the most well-known superheroes in the world."

 

I don't know why people expect the DC movies to be anything like the Marvel movies, I find that expectation to be beyond silly because the characters are so fundamentally different.

  • Love 5
gator12

gator12

Nolan's Batman trilogy was good, the Snyder films and whatever DC is doing right now just suck... There is good dark and gritty which the critics and fans love (Nolan's films for example) compare to dark and gritty film that just aren't good films and completely miss the point of the characters. As far as I'm concern, Snyder's DC is just a dark and gritty version of Transformers. Just bad films that will make money regardless. 

  • Love 4
Matt K

Matt K

No way.  Too much money on the table.

 

It may mean a major revision of their plans, which always seemed overly ambitious to announce right out the gate, perhaps including the creative team.

 

That's fair, I know WB is hard up for another franchise (hence more HP movies)  and I assume despite the reviews BvS isn't going to be another Green Lantern (as at the very least the novelty of seeing 2 of the best known Superheroes in a single movie).  So I think you might be right, there's going to be some massive changes going forward.  I wonder if that means putting JL on hold (and going with a more Marvel style origins first), just firing Zack Snyder and maybe Goyer or canceling the remainder of the film to see how well WW and SS does.  

 

I think you might be right that there's too much money to simply cancel all of their movies but WB has been pretty risk averse so I'm not sure they'll just fire Snyder and Goyer.  I'm more interested to see where WB goes from here than actually seeing the movie.

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