Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

[Kromm]

Apparently Lois' photographer in her first scene was supposed to be Jimmy Olsen, and originally to be played by Jesse Eisenberg.

 

I didn't hate this movie, but this whole article pushes me further in that direction.  Like, you're telling me we could have had a traditional intimidating Lex Luthor played by Bryan Cranston, but instead we got whatever the hell Eisenberg was doing?  This article is clearly meant to be a cool bit of trivia, but it's actually a catalog of a terrible decision-making process.

 

And to top it off, the "joke" loses both of the things that were meant to make it funny/shocking, since Jimmy isn't named or played by a recognizable actor.

He's still supposed to be Jimmy Olsen, the way I read a lot of what Synder has gleefully said about it. Just unnamed now so it pisses off marginally less people.

[Rina99]

It was choppy, had too many flashbacks, and some plot points (Batman's sudden change of heart re Superman, Lex Luther's motivations) were not given the proper attention. And the ending was rather strange, I thought.

 

 

See, when I see comments like this in even positive reviews, I fail to understand why, then, it's hard to understand that for many people, this would make it a rather awful movie no matter how good the acting is.  I keep seeing comments like these and then it ending with "But it was still great!" and I'm like, what?  For me, these tend to be a movie killer.  And it's not like I go in expecting greatness in everything.

 

I think that a lot of folks were actively hoping it would fail before it even came out.

 

 

And this makes the mistake of thinking that the casual movie goer even gives a crap about who Zack Snyder is, or the inane Marvel vs DC "wars".  Most people, such as myself, just want to kill an afternoon and not be bored out of my mind, and have my kids entertained for a while.  I know who Zack Snyder is because at least twice I've been fooled into watching something he made, and really disliking it, and being pretty in tune with his worst critics.  The only halfway decent thing was Watchmen, and it appears that someone helped reign him in on that one.    

 

I do not and never will give two craps about comic books, so when these types of movies get made, the things that I'm seeing brushed off like the plot not being great and the editing being off, etc, matter a great deal.  

Edited March 26, 2016 by Rina99

[revbfc]

ITA I actually thought that the movie was fine. Not the greatest, maybe, but fine. I liked the acting, even surprisingly, Jesse Eisenberg (he did the best he could with the character as written). Affleck was a great, somewhat older Batman. Gal Gadot gave me hope for the Wonder Woman movie. The script was what kept it from getting from a B to an A+. It was choppy, had too many flashbacks, and some plot points (Batman's sudden change of heart re Superman, Lex Luther's motivations) were not given the proper attention. And the ending was rather strange, I thought.

I like Batman and many of the other superhero characters but am not a fangirl and don't understand the whole Marvel vs DC mindset, as I like both. I think that a lot of people are panning the film because they REALLY hate Snyder and, to a lesser extent, the casting of Affleck and/Eisenberg. Look, it wasn't great, but it's getting reviewed as though its the worst superhero movie EVER, and it isn't anywhere near as bad as that, in my opinion. I think that a lot of folks were actively hoping it would fail before it even came out.

I don't agree with everything you said, but we're on the same page about the movie. The bad reviews I read made it seem like BvS was one of the worst crimes against superhero movies since X3. My reality is that I want to see this movie a few more times because there were a lot of things I may have missed, and that it was very entertaining. It was an epic, and it gave me things I had never seen in a comic book movie before.

I differ with you a bit on Eisenberg. I wasn't the biggest fan of it because his portrayal of LL was jarring to me. I respect his performance because he committed to the choices he made with the character.

[Kromm]

I like Batman and many of the other superhero characters but am not a fangirl and don't understand the whole Marvel vs DC mindset, as I like both. I think that a lot of people are panning the film because they REALLY hate Snyder and, to a lesser extent, the casting of Affleck and/Eisenberg. Look, it wasn't great, but it's getting reviewed as though its the worst superhero movie EVER, and it isn't anywhere near as bad as that, in my opinion. I think that a lot of folks were actively hoping it would fail before it even came out.

If you're reading ALL of the dislike of the movie simply as ani-Snyder transference, that's a shame.

 

I think the core problem here is the same as with the rebooted Star Trek. It's made a perfectly serviceable film that many people will enjoy because it's a well done spectacle, but it's hard to translate to people who aren't dedicated long-time fans what's wrong, because what they're seeing is entertaining--albeit something else entirely. The traditionalists sound petty, I suppose--I can certainly see it from the outside enough to understand that it comes off that way. It gets redirected back against Snyder because he seems to gleefully take enjoyment in the aspects the traditionalists don't like, for example, that bit upthread about the number of ways Superman could kill Batman in an instant (which begs the question of why he even wanted to make this film). 

 

For me the big problem is that the things people don't like are things that could have been adjusted so easily, and seem to only be there as an extension of Snyder's ego. Oh, with millions of dollars in effects spent making them appear on screen, mind you, but there really is a lot of arbitrary seeming "we're doing it because we can" to a lot of it. I mean Batman didn't have to be THAT crazy. And gullible. Most traditional takes on Batman have him be kind of paranoid, but that paranoia would play more into him being skeptical rather than him being, pardon the pun, batshit crazy. Secondly, the way humans interact with Superman has had all the subtlety removed from it. The idea that Superman could be a threat has ALWAYS been a good one, and one the comics explore too, but this version is rotten to the core because it's front loaded with proof of how dangerous Kryptonians can be from the get-go. There's hand-waves to explain why anyone would think otherwise--but it's dead clear that's all they are--handwaves.  Rather than explore the idea from any kind of intellectual or philosophical perspective, it just comes down to smashing instead.  Anyway, this is just the tip of the iceberg. I mean a debate over simply making a movie spectacular/crowdpleasing vs. an actual good film is not going to get settled here.

 

And the movie made money. A LOT of it. There's no denying it. Snyder ain't going anywhere since the box office matters more than reviews.

[Kromm]

Do they (Batman and Superman) actually bond over the fact that their mom's have the same name?

Spoilery, yet silly take on this:  http://www.bustle.com/articles/149921-is-batmans-mom-really-named-martha-her-name-plays-a-big-role-in-batman-v-superman

[Raja]

. And the ending was rather strange, I thought.

 

 

Like the scream of "KHAAAN!" in Star Trek they merely flipped the players from the source material. But they didn't do the leg work to say why it was important that Clark now lives, in secret.

[Danny Franks]

Snyder is like Michael Bay. He makes cold, soulless films that operate on the principle (admittedly a proven one) that people will just show up for smashing and explosions.  And sadly they do.

 

This. I've found all Snyder's movies to be utterly without merit. Just empty vessels for special effects and ill-conceived ideas. Man of Steel was terrible, Cavill was infinitely worse than Brandon Routh in the role. I honestly have no clue why anyone thought this would be any good at all, and why anyone is surprised at the reviews.

 

I actually liked the idea of Ben Affleck as Batman, and think it could have been really good. In competent hands. As it is, I already knew I wasn't going to see this movie, and all this has just vindicated that decision.

[Ruby25]

I thought this was terrible. Nothing in the movie made any sense, from one scene to the next. Character motivations were incomprehensible, dialogue was horrible (seriously, this had some mind-boggingly awful dialogue), and Wonder Woman was shoved in basically as a commercial for her own movie coming out next year, because seriously, why was she in this and what did she contribute?

 

Look, I've always hated the idea of making the non-Batman DC heroes dark and trying to rip off the Nolan tone for this universe, which I think is completely and totally 100% wrong, but forget all that stuff for second.

 

As a movie, no matter who it was about, this was poorly written, directed and edited, because it came across as a totally incoherent mess. The acting was mostly fine, with the big exception of Eisenberg, who was HORRIBLE in this. God, he was so bad.

 

So yeah, it was just bad all around.

[AD35]

So yeah. The acting was mostly fine, with the big exception of Eisenberg, who was HORRIBLE in this. God, he was so bad., it was just bad all around.

 

Whenever he started talking, I kept hoping that someone would shove a handful of Ritalin or some other drug in his mouth to calm him down and get rid of the tics. Since the movie's big draw is the fight between the two main characters, I thought the fight would in basically a stalemate. Allowing both sides to claim a victory of sorts.  Instead it pretty much plays to Batman strengths ending with Superman getting just this close to being a Kryptonian shish kabob.

[Kromm]

I thought this was terrible. Nothing in the movie made any sense, from one scene to the next. Character motivations were incomprehensible, dialogue was horrible (seriously, this had some mind-boggingly awful dialogue), and Wonder Woman was shoved in basically as a commercial for her own movie coming out next year, because seriously, why was she in this and what did she contribute?

Well given that it ALREADY seems like it might be a better movie than BvS, perhaps we could regard the "commercial" as the highlight rather than intrusive!

[Kromm]

Look, I've always hated the idea of making the non-Batman DC heroes dark and trying to rip off the Nolan tone for this universe, which I think is completely and totally 100% wrong, but forget all that stuff for second.

I actually think there are ways and times to make Superman dark. But it's ludicrous to root him in that. It has to be a later in life/career thing with him, and this franchise started on Day 1 with GrimGrimDarkDark and doubled down with the second helping being largely in similar territory. 

[Bruinsfan]

I think most of the critics' complaints about the movie are true to a greater or lesser degree, and it's a matter of personal taste whether or not it's able to surmount those problems and become an enjoyable viewing experience. For me it surprisingly did (let's hear it for lowered expectations!). I can see a pretty good framework of a plot underneath all the ADHD camera work and editing, and the performances are collectively good enough to make it an entertaining watch despite Eisenberg's being even twitchier and more cartoonish than Michael Shannon's in Man of Steel. I was relieved to see that Clark/Superman didn't scowl his way through every minute of screentime, and while Batman did spend the bulk of the movie indulging in paranoid hostility it was clear this was an overreaction based on losses he'd suffered and not a case of him being right by default because he's Batman and cooler than everyone else. Every second of Wonder Woman on camera was as golden as her lasso, and if she'd been featured much more they would have had to title the film Batman v. Superman w/Wonder Woman Mediating.

[Rick Kitchen]

Batman was a total asshole.  He doesn't care how many people he kills, but he gets all angsty over the collateral damage caused by Superman when fighting bad guys.

 

Wonder Woman was awesome.  Loved the brief glimpse of Chris Pine.  Loved the Joker reference, thought the Martha bonding was silly.  And why did Lois throw the spear into the water just to have to go retrieve it later?  That was also silly.

 

The credits mentioned Jimmy Olsen, Lana Lang and Pete Ross.  Really?  Where were they?

 

Eisenberg was just a big, sucking hole.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Rick Kitchen

[AES13]

 

 

As a movie, no matter who it was about, this was poorly written, directed and edited, because it came across as a totally incoherent mess. The acting was mostly fine, with the big exception of Eisenberg, who was HORRIBLE in this. God, he was so bad.

So yeah, it was just bad all around.

 

I agree completely.  The only question I have is when did I become such a DC fan.  I never thought I was but given the rage I feel towards this movie, you'd think I'd been utterly betrayed by a trusted friend.   I had to consciously relax my arms from time to time as I kept tensing up from sheer anger at what was being done to the characters.  The only moment that I and most of the theatre cheered was when Wonder Woman showed up in her uniform.  

 

Actually, another question I have is how do you take such time, money, and effort from so many people (ostensibly trying their best) and end up with this crapfest?  It's mind boggling.  :(

[Raja]

 

 

The credits mentioned Jimmy Olsen, Lana Lang and Pete Ross.  Really?  Where were they?

 

Eisenberg was just a big, sucking hole.

Reading around today it seems as if the CIA Agent killed at the warlord interview with the film camera was originally Jimmy Olsen

[SeanC]

My choice for dumbest moment:  Batman is chasing Lex's men through the city (Gotham?), having a brutal firefight.  Superman shows up, trashes Batman's car and tells him to quit...and then does nothing to apprehend the bad guys.

[revbfc]

Batman was a total asshole. He doesn't care how many people he kills, but he gets all angsty over the collateral damage caused by Superman when fighting bad guys.

Wonder Woman was awesome. Loved the brief glimpse of Chris Pine. Loved the Joker reference, thought the Martha bonding was silly. And why did Lois throw the spear into the water just to have to go retrieve it later? That was also silly.

The credits mentioned Jimmy Olsen, Lana Lang and Pete Ross. Really? Where were they?

Eisenberg was just a big, sucking hole.

I think the Lana Lang and Jimmy Olsen stuff will be expanded upon in the home video R-rated cut.

I'm almost on your side about the "Martha" business. The movie at least did the work of making Thomas Wayne's last word being his wife's name, so it wasn't completely out of left field. Did it work emotionally for me as a viewer? Not really, but I understood what the deal was.

[MarkHB]

I'm guessing Pete Ross, and maybe Lana, were in the coffee shop in Smallville.

I'm trying to decide between "I'm a friend of your son's" and "I've killed things from other worlds before" (delivered with a matter-of-fact deadpan that Adam West would have been proud of) as my favorite line

[tanita]

The whole Martha things was ridiculous. And again, there was no need to take us back to that moment of her death in the middle of the fight, when you started the effing movie with it. I was already scratching my head long before, because I had no idea that Bruce's mom was named Martha as well (never paid any attention).

 

The movie has serious problems. Structure and storytelling was destroyed by terrible editing. There was so much obscure DC stuff that if I hadn't known about Doomsday and Darkseid upfront I would have been lost, and I wasn't even sure if that nightmare was the Flash time traveling. It was so messy visually.

 

I don't mind the tone they are going for, but I agree with someone who previously said that Snyder doesn't understand Superman. Superman doesn't fit into this universe. And Cavill felt  very uncomfortable as both Clark and Superman. No matter the dark theme, Superman needs that joy and optimism otherwise he isn't Superman. Also, this version of Lois and Clark have like zero chemistry. Their scenes were so inorganic and that entire relationship has come about so inorganically that it made me uncomfortable when they were on screen together.

 

Again, I was more then satisfied with this Lex Luthor. Not perfect, but not as much of a trainwreak I thought he would be.

 

Wonder Woman was flawless.

 

It has bigger problems then say AntMan or even Thor-Dark World - but as a movie it worked better for me then they did and was far more enjoyable. I kind of compere it to X Men : Last Stand - great ideas, but weak execution. I know a lot of people HATE Last Stand - and while it is a weaker movie then 4 other X men sequels - I still find it enjoyable for what it is and wanted to be. Ultimately, BvS is this year's Age of Ultron - high promises that was never going to deliver.

 

But seriously, DC NEED to rethink Snyder or par him up with other directors, preferably those who value storytelling over visual style.

 

I had it at a sold B earlier, but now I would say after some time it's definitely a C+/B- movie.

Edited March 26, 2016 by tanita

[Kromm]

The credits mentioned Jimmy Olsen, Lana Lang and Pete Ross.  Really?  Where were they?

Well Jimmy

dies, almost as a throwaway.

One of the reasons some people think Snyder is pretty much just deliberately giving a metaphorical middle finger to traditional fans...

My choice for dumbest moment:  Batman is chasing Lex's men through the city (Gotham?), having a brutal firefight.  Superman shows up, trashes Batman's car and tells him to quit...and then does nothing to apprehend the bad guys.

Well that fits the classic "Superdickery" theme.

Google it.

 Classic Superman ain't Dark N' Gritty, but that doesn't mean he isn't a...

I agree completely.  The only question I have is when did I become such a DC fan.  I never thought I was but given the rage I feel towards this movie, you'd think I'd been utterly betrayed by a trusted friend.   I had to consciously relax my arms from time to time as I kept tensing up from sheer anger at what was being done to the characters.  The only moment that I and most of the theatre cheered was when Wonder Woman showed up in her uniform.  

 

Actually, another question I have is how do you take such time, money, and effort from so many people (ostensibly trying their best) and end up with this crapfest?  It's mind boggling.  :(

It will be deeply ironic after generations of being fucked over in terms of being absent from DC's movies and non-animated TV if Wonder Woman turns out to be the shining star of their current shit-stained approach.

[Lantern7]

For anybody who wants a better take on Batman and Superman meeting, try the "World's Finest" three-parter from Superman: The Animated Series. Bruce and Clark wrecking each other's shit, Lois falling hard for a guy, and a Mercy/Harley catfight. There's also Superman/Batman Annual #1 . . . written by Joe Kelly, it's a warped take on Batman and Superman's first encounter with each other. Really funny stuff.

[Kromm]

For anybody who wants a better take on Batman and Superman meeting, try the "World's Finest" three-parter from Superman: The Animated Series. Bruce and Clark wrecking each other's shit, Lois falling hard for a guy, and a Mercy/Harley catfight. There's also Superman/Batman Annual #1 . . . written by Joe Kelly, it's a warped take on Batman and Superman's first encounter with each other. Really funny stuff.

I seem to recall a Batsy/Soupy Animated movie from a few years ago too, that wasn't nearly as good as the DCAU one, but was still at least okay.

 

EDIT - Ah, there were two apparently. 2009's Superman/Batman: Public Enemies and 2010's Superman/Batman: Apocalypse.  Don't think I saw the second one.  And actually... Tim Daly, who did the DCAU voice of Superman was still doing the voice, even though these weren't DCAU movies.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Kromm

[lion10]

This movie wasn't very good, but it wasn't NEARLY as bad as its Rotten Tomatoes score implies it would be.  A 30% is way too harsh for a movie with a lot of good parts.  I'd give it a 60%, I certainly wouldn't score it below Man of Steel.  The plot was all over the place and Lois' Lexcorp bullet plot was completely unnecessary.  The dream sequence where the swarm of bats carry Bruce to the surface was really really cool.  Say what you will about Snyder (and it's probably right) but the man knows how to make cool shots.  I HATED Lex Luthor figuring out Superman's secret identity.  Part of the beauty of Lex's distrust of Superman is that he simply can't wrap his mind around the idea that someone with godlike power would actually be so good and would actually enjoy life as a normal human and things like taking the bus to work and getting yelled at by his boss and having to endure office politics.  In fact there's a comic where Lex does figure out that Superman was Clark Kent and he rejects the conclusion because it's so ridiculous to him.

 

Is it just me or did it seem like the writers didn't give either Superman or Clark many lines to say? Did he say anything to his mom when she gives him the "you don't owe this world a thing" speech? I feel like it would've made the scene a lot better if he unburdened himself to Martha, saying something like "Mom, I don't know what to do. Everything I do is criticized and all I'm trying to do is help people." And I was really looking forward to Superman's day in court. It felt like the film was about to address some really interesting questions about disobeying the law to help people, and the geopolitical implications of Superman, and how he'd relate to the U.S. government in the 21st century, and then that whole plot line literally goes up in flames. And they killed off Mercy Graves !

Could someone explain to me why Batman wanted to kill Superman? There's the explosion at the Capitol Building, true, but the news reporter says that the disgruntled Wayne employee who lost his legs is likely the bomber so where does that leave Batman?
 

I was really impressed by Superman during that fight even though Wonder Woman was amazing during the fight. He breathes in kryptonite gas in twice, fights a creature that's much stronger than him, carries him into space, survives the vacuum of space, gets nuked, gets revived by the sun, and comes back to Earth to continue fighting Doomsday. "Man of Steel" indeed...

[Bruinsfan]

I think Batman was still operating on his original paranoia about the 1% chance of Superman being an enemy requiring him to be put down. Luthor's claims about setting up that conflict over two years made no sense, as he only apparently met Wallace Keefe after the latter defaced Superman's statue. He couldn't have been keeping Keefe from cashing those checks all along—my impression was he just talked Keefe into sending them with crazy red crayon messages all at once after discovering he'd sat on them for months (or did so himself without Keefe's knowledge...)

 

My choice for dumbest moment:  Batman is chasing Lex's men through the city (Gotham?), having a brutal firefight.  Superman shows up, trashes Batman's car and tells him to quit...and then does nothing to apprehend the bad guys.

He had no proof they were bad guys. All he saw was Batman going apeshit on the convoy with military grade weapons and mercilessly killing people in the guard cars by crashing them into buildings. I don't think he was inclined to trust Batman's judgment at that point in the movie.

[AimingforYoko]

I was really impressed by Superman during that fight even though Wonder Woman was amazing during the fight. He breathes in kryptonite gas in twice, fights a creature that's much stronger than him, carries him into space, survives the vacuum of space, gets nuked, gets revived by the sun, and comes back to Earth to continue fighting Doomsday. "Man of Steel" indeed...

But wouldn't it have worked better if he had given the Kryptonite spear to the superpowered individual who wasn't affected by Kryptonite?

Much like Tarantino (who I love), Snyder (who I don't) needs a strong editor. 40 minutes of this could've gone by the wayside. Especially the dream sequences.

[Kromm]

This movie wasn't very good, but it wasn't NEARLY as bad as its Rotten Tomatoes score implies it would be.  A 30% is way too harsh for a movie with a lot of good parts.  I'd give it a 60%.

It sounds like you're misinterpreting how Rotten Tomatoes works though. A 30% score isn't a value they assign to quantify how good or bad they think a movie is. It's an interpreted aggregate score based on dozens to hundreds of reviews they have nothing to do with. It can't be "wrong" because it's literally just a statistic they calculated, not a subjective rating about what they think of a movie's quality. I mean you can disagree with the number of course, but then what you are disagreeing with is those dozens to hundreds of reviews, not one organization called "Rotten Tomatoes"... who are pretty much just doing math.

 

EDIT - Okay, it IS apparently a little more complicated than that. Rotten Tomatoes reads the reviews and assigns a numerical score to each one based on an interpretation of what the reviewers are saying. They then take all of the scores from all of the reviewers and get an average and convert to a score out of a 100 to get the percentage. That said, while there's interpretation by them involved, they're STILL not just single-handedly assigning any kind of quality score. It's an aggregate, albeit an interpreted one, and the 30% interpretation (29% now actually) is of the reviews, not of the movie itself. 

Edited March 27, 2016 by Kromm

[lion10]

But wouldn't it have worked better if he had given the Kryptonite spear to the superpowered individual who wasn't affected by Kryptonite?

Much like Tarantino (who I love), Snyder (who I don't) needs a strong editor. 40 minutes of this could've gone by the wayside. Especially the dream sequences.

 

That's...a good point.  Was Wonder Woman KO'd at that point during the fight?  Because she was restraining Doomsday with her Lasso of Truth and then I guess he broke free.  What happened to Wondy?

[Spartan Girl]

My brother just got back from it, and he said it was shit.

Granted, my brother is the type of guy that thinks everything is shit, but he really hated it. He said it was jumpy as hell and barely made sense.

But the thing that pissed me off the most is that Aquaman was ONE BIG TEASE. I get all psyched for Jason Mamoa and he only appears through a fucking photo?? Can someone confirm this?!

Once again, poor Henry Cavill. I hope we at least get a shirtless scene to compensate for the other crap...again, can someone confirm this?

Anyway, I'm so glad I just looked up the plot on Wikipedia. That way, even if I do wind up seeing it, I won't be so worked about being let down.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Spartan Girl

[Raja]

But wouldn't it have worked better if he had given the Kryptonite spear to the superpowered individual who wasn't affected by Kryptonite?

Much like Tarantino (who I love), Snyder (who I don't) needs a strong editor. 40 minutes of this could've gone by the wayside. Especially the dream sequences.

i was thinking the same especially since she was fighting with a sword and shield but then when you get down to it her name was neither Batman or Superman. Even if it would have been an even stronger dawn of a Justice League moment

[Rick Kitchen]

 

But the thing that pissed me off the most is that Aquaman was ONE BIG TEASE. I get all psyched for Jason Mamoa and he only appears through a fucking photo?? Can someone confirm this?!

 

 

Yes, this is true.

 

 

Once again, poor Henry Cavill. I hope we at least get a shirtless scene to compensate for the other crap...again, can someone confirm this?

 

No, this doesn't happen.  He does get into a bathtub with naked Amy Adams, but he's fully clothed.  Though he does take off his glasses.

[lion10]

No, this doesn't happen.  He does get into a bathtub with naked Amy Adams, but he's fully clothed.  Though he does take off his glasses.

 

He walks around in just a towel in the kitchen of him and Lois' apartment for a bit.  Even as a straight guy I couldn't help but stare just a bit.

[Athena]

Everyone is free to express their opinion about the movie as long as you are civil and respective to your fellow posters. Do not be rude or passive aggressive in here. Please watch your tone when posting replies. Thank you.

[ShadowHunter]

Yes, this is true.

 

 

No, this doesn't happen.  He does get into a bathtub with naked Amy Adams, but he's fully clothed.  Though he does take off his glasses.

He is shirtless in the apartment for a quick scene he was making breakfast then stopped to watch the TV.

[MarkHB]

Aquaman's actually a video, not a still photo, if that makes a difference to you.  His appearance got a pretty big shot of applause at the show I was at.

 

My impression was that Superman took care of the coup de grace on Doomday because, as he put it, "it's from [his] world."  At the same time, he wasn't killed by the spear, he was killed by Doomsday's giant bony protrusion, so who knows if Diana might have been vulnerable to that as well.

Also: here's one of the funnier positive reviews.  Caveat: I know the author (no, it isn't me).

[lion10]

Doomsday was a bit of a disappointment.  Fans were hoping that he'd go from this to a more evolved traditionally bony form like this.  But instead Doomsday evolved into the shitty looking one.  Just...how do you fuck so many things up?  Hopefully WB benches Zack Snyder and he takes a backseat during the filming of the Justice League because by this point it's a pattern that he can't direct a coherent good story.

[SeanC]

He had no proof they were bad guys. All he saw was Batman going apeshit on the convoy with military grade weapons and mercilessly killing people in the guard cars by crashing them into buildings. I don't think he was inclined to trust Batman's judgment at that point in the movie.

Superman thinks Batman goes too far, not that he's not hunting bad guys.  And a convey with military grade weaponry is pretty damn suspicious.  That he doesn't even look into it is dumb.

[Racj82]

Man, fuck this movie. I can't begin to understand of defense of this movie beyond it being okay.

 

The editing. Godawful.

 

The fucking youtube Justice League videos. Such a rush job to get their team movie out there.

 

Why do people keep acting like Gadot was a revelation as Wonder Woman? She barely did anything of substance as Diana and look good Wonder Woman. Not earth shattering.

 

The fucking music cues every time Lex or Justice League stuff comes up was driving me nuts.

 

All of those dream sequences. Total visuals so that they could have more shots in the trailers.

 

Henry Cavill is just a non entity as Clark and Superman.

 

The fight was like 70% shown in trailers that were hard to escape and ends with a wimper.

 

Lois with the busy work so you can justify her being around. Whatever.

 

Superman dies! fuck off. We know he will be fine.

 

That CGI mess of a finale.

 

Worst of all, Eisenberg. Fucking Eisenberg. I legit can't stand it. I don't need him to even be the Lex Luthor I know or his dad. whatever the fuck. Just not this.

 

Good lord. A lot of the Batman related stuff was good. Some good performances. That's about it. Above all, this movie is dour as fuck. I don't need quips every ten seconds or flashy colors. I just don't need a movie to be this drab and lifeless most of the time.

[Bruinsfan]

That's...a good point.  Was Wonder Woman KO'd at that point during the fight?  Because she was restraining Doomsday with her Lasso of Truth and then I guess he broke free.  What happened to Wondy?

I think she was knocked aside when Doomsday did another of those out-of-left-field omni directional explosions. Him getting loose from the Lasso bothered me, though. Even with Wonder Woman temporarily blown out of the fray, he should have still been bound up tight by it and had to spend time squirming and contorting to free himself—it's supposed to be impossible to break free of by force. I also think Diana could have eventually won the fight by herself without the kryptonite spear—if her sword could cut through Doomsday's arm, it could cut through his neck, and I doubt his regenerative abilities would extend to growing a new head.

 

The basic Doomsday design looked OK to me, but he was too big. He should have been the size of the Hulk, not of King Kong. And once they lit him up like a Christmas tree the CGI was just horrible, like what you'd see in a Sci-Fi Channel original movie.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Bruinsfan

[Racj82]

I think she was knocked aside when Doomsday did another of those out-of-left-field omni directional explosions. Him getting loose from the Lasso bothered me, though. Even with Wonder Woman temporarily blown out of the fray, he should have still been bound up tight by it and had to spend time squirming and contorting to free himself—it's supposed to be impossible to break free of by force. I also think Diana could have eventually won the fight by herself without the kryptonite spear—if her sword could cut through Doomsday's arm, it could cut through his neck, and I doubt his regenerative abilities would extend to growing a new head.

The basic Doomsday design looked OK to me, but he was too big. He should have been the size of the Hulk, not of King Kong. And once they lit him up like a Christmas tree the CGI was just horrible, like what you'd see in a Sci-Fi Channel original movie.

why wouldn't it allow him to grow a new head? Characters that can regenerate can do that.

[lion10]

why wouldn't it allow him to grow a new head? Characters that can regenerate can do that.

It's a general rule of cinema (and real life). Even if a character can heal fast, they can't survive losing a head or being disentingrated. It keeps them from being too OP and helps the audience suspend disbelief.

[nobodyyoucare]

It's a general rule of cinema (and real life). Even if a character can heal fast, they can't survive losing a head or being disentingrated. It keeps them from being too OP and helps the audience suspend disbelief.

Actually they can sometimes regrew a head or disintegrated. Killing them off usually requires a special substance or technique or they just get imprisoned. 

[revbfc]

Actually they can sometimes regrew a head or disintegrated. Killing them off usually requires a special substance or technique or they just get imprisoned.

I'm so glad they didn't have Doomsday grow a new head. That character was my least favorite part of the movie. I'll defend my position about enjoying the hell out of BvS, but Doomsday was awful. The only thing about his fight scene I liked was seeing our three heroes working together (in other words, it had nothing to do with Doomsday).

And thinking about what could have made such a scenario worse is the possibility that Snyder might have had Doomsday's severed head grow a new body giving us two Doomsdays and 10 more minutes of fighting.

[Racj82]

It's a general rule of cinema (and real life). Even if a character can heal fast, they can't survive losing a head or being disentingrated. It keeps them from being too OP and helps the audience suspend disbelief.

That's not really a rule. But, it doesn't matter. He totally could have which is why Wonder Woman cutting his head off wouldn't work. Once Clark stabbed him with the sphere, he could be killed on a more normal scale. Not before. So, Clark had to make that sacrifice.

 

Also, yeah, fuck Doomsday. People complain about Marvel's villains but DC gives us a spastic Lex Luthor and a bootleg Abomination type villain that will remain unmemorable besides of the ninja turtle looking comparisons.

 

I'm more excited for the turtles movie at this point. Bryan Singer keeps making the same type of X Men movie over and over and they are desperate need of new flavor. I'm hyped for Civil War but I am worried about the bloat in that movie. The turtles may have it too but at least it looks like it's truly embracing the source material which I appreciate.

 

Ughh, this movie. I'm never watching this movie again.

[Sake614]

So I purposely didn't read the reviews and was cautiously optimistic about the movie. I may be the only person on earth who actually liked Daredevil and Affleck's portrayal, so I was interested in seeing his take on Batman. And while I had no interest in MoS when it first came out, I did see it on cable and rather enjoyed it. Was I thrilled with the premise of these two heroes fighting each other? No, but I figured there must be a reason and I was willing to see how it played out,

I bought tickets on Friday and saw it yesterday. Damn that was bad. I mean REALLY bad. As others have already said, the writing was just horrible. And there was no reason to revisit Bruce's parents being killed, we KNOW all that, it's been told and shown thousands of times over the years. This movie could easily have been cut to 90 minutes and been much better.

I thought Affleck was pretty bad as both Bruce and Bztman, but mostly I blame the writing. And that costume? Oh my word that was bad! It's one thing for Bztman to be a vigilante, quite another for him to be a cold-blooded murderer. And that's what he was in this movie.

I don't read the comics so had no idea who Doomsday was supposed to be. To me, he just looked like a giant Urukai.

Superman looked incredibly weak and ineffectual throughout the movie. And getting a military funeral complete with burial at Arlington? really?

I didn't understand why LEx LUthor was acting like the Joker, but I thought Jesse Eisenberg stole the show. Well, him and Gal Gadot. But if they wanted to insert Wonder Woman, she should have been involved much sooner. And the whole notion of batman suddenly bonding with superman just because their mothers have the same name? Ridiculous.

Overall, I walked out dazed and confused and feeling like I wasted 2 1/2 hours and $20. Not only will I not see it again in theatres, I have no interest in watching when it hits cable.

[JessePinkman]

This movie would. not. end. That third act could have been a movie in itself. 

 

The one word I'd have for the movie as a whole is "unearned". The Batman/Superman conflict, the Lex conflict, the Clark/Lois relationship, Superman's death. All of it was completely unearned so that made the gravitas of it all very tiring. That's how I felt about MoS, they spent most of that movie reacting more to the idea of Superman that we as a populace has rather than what was shown onscreen. Even in this, despite the monument and the vigil it didn't seem like humanity truly liked Superman. And that montage of Superman saving things does not count.

 

What was with all of the dream sequences? Enough already.

 

Batman stopped hating Superman because their mothers have the same name? Okay. I guess you could look at it as he finally saw Superman as human but...naw. Why would Clark start calling his mom "Martha" anyway?

 

And they've really turned Martha and Jonathan into shitty parents. No Clark, it's ok, be selfish, keep all of this infinite power to yourself. Fuck humanity. You don't owe them shit. They could use a lesson from Spider-Man, "With great power comes great responsibility".

 

Lex's characterization was really fucking annoying. He didn't say one complete sentence in nearly 3 hours, he kept talking in proclamations and quips. It got REALLY obnoxious. He acted more like the Riddler than anyone else.

 

All of that said it wasn't AS bad as I was expecting. Someone took the color balance controls away from Snyder and for that I was happy. And the part with The Flash was actually really cool. So there's that.

[Rick Kitchen]

I would like somebody to explain to me how that little Amazonian shield protected WW's entire body from those blasts.

[Bruinsfan]

Magic, I'm assuming. Same way an Amazonian sword could actually cut through Kryptonian flesh and blood instead of pancaking against Doomsday like it was made of tinfoil when swung with that much force.

 

why wouldn't it allow him to grow a new head? Characters that can regenerate can do that.

In most of the comic books and sci-fi media I've seen, decapitation does a good job of putting down anything that's vaguely humanoid and dependent on biology. Something like the titular creature from John Carpenter's The Thing wouldn't be inconvenienced that much, but if it has a central nervous system lopping the head off is pretty effective. (I could maybe see Doomsday's head remaining alive and dangerous for an extended period, but at least it would be pretty easy to immobilize and launch into space at that point.)

[JessePinkman]

I would like somebody to explain to me how that little Amazonian shield protected WW's entire body from those blasts.

 

Much like Superman Wonder Woman is invulnerable. Maybe the shield was to deflect the blast from hurting Bruce?

 

Speaking of Bruce I liked the shot of him running under some rubble when shit was really going down with Doomsday, just a reminder that he's only human.

[Jazzy24]

So many mixed reviews but a lot of people seem to agree on what they didn't like about the film.

And it sounds like my Superman didn't get to do much to shine.

Superman is my favorite DC character not cause he's oh so interesting but because my grandfather use to watch him and that was his fav so he became mine. I wish more could be done with the character.

I guess I'll wait till the Redbox to see this one.

[BatmanBeatles]

While this movie did well on opening weekend, I'm curious what the following week will be like.