Past Seasons Talk: Before We Traded a Cop for an Assassin, a Psycho Hacker and The Machine's Evil Twin

[stealinghome]

Definitely the S1 finale and first 2 episodes of S2, Relevance, and the last 2 episodes of S2.

[Trillium]

Season 1 I'd watch the first two for sure. The Fix #6) and Witness (#7) are the intros to Zoe and Elias. You'll want bang you head against a wall as to why they paired Reese with Iris after seeing Zoe's intro (Reese was smitten from the second he saw her) and the bit twist in Witnesses won't suprise you because you know who he is. Still great. Episodes 10-13 are important Machine and Root wise. Then the last 4.

[amensisterfriend]

...and 1.18, Identity Crisis, gives us Finch on ecstasy before being rescued by Reese. I wouldn't miss it! 

[DeLurker]

...and 1.18, Identity Crisis, gives us Finch on ecstasy before being rescued by Reese. I wouldn't miss it!

That is one of the funniest things I've ever seen on TV, but the pairing of Finch & Fusco after kills me.

[stealinghome]

Finch's "Goodnight, Nathan" KILLS ME though. every.single.time.

[FurryFury]

I'd watch every episode with Root and Nathan, but that's just me. And probably also Elias, because he's fun.

 

You'll want bang you head against a wall as to why they paired Reese with Iris after seeing Zoe's intro

 

I guess this is because Zoe's actress is on another show (which, despite being generally amazing, doesn't give her enough to do, sadly).

Edited March 27, 2015 by FurryFury

[stealinghome]

So looking ahead to the show's return tonight for the stretch run (can't believe there's just 4 episodes left!), I've been thinking a lot about this spring season for PoI and why I've been disappointed with it thus far, and I think I've finally put my finger on what's not working for the show right now, at least for me. My thoughts were sparked in large measure by reading some episode reviews and looking at other boards and whatnot, because everywhere there seems to be a general feeling of dissatisfaction with the lack of coherency of the back half of this season. I agree with the general sentiment, but for different reasons, I think, than lots of other people. (Also, props to wevel for letting me ramble some of this out beforehand.)

 

The way in which I DON'T think some complaints about the lack of cohesiveness--namely, that Reese seems entirely isolated from the Samaritan/AI stuff while Root is totally isolated from the Number stuff--really work is that that's always been the case. Reese has always had very little to do with the Samaritan/AI stuff except in the big climactic episodes, and Root has always had very little to do with the Numbers aside from one or two one-offs each season. The difference, imo, is that with the loss of Shaw, this division has become far more obvious. Finch has always been the obvious pivot point between the two halves of the show, but losing Shaw made apparent, I think, how much Shaw quietly but definitely served as a similar point of connection. As John's Mayhem Twin and partner in the Numbers, she was obviously tied to the procedural/crime side, but thanks to her ISA background and her personal relationship with Root, Shaw was just as tied to the Samaritan/AI side. It was Shaw's history that let 4x07 tie the Number and Samaritan sides together effectively, for example, and even brief exchanges between Root and Shaw in (for example) 4x02, 4x05, and 4x07 created the illusion that the Number and AI sides of the show were more closely connected than they actually were. So I've been thinking recently that Shaw, and the Root/Shaw relationship, did a lot of quiet structural work for the show that it has really been struggling with losing. The stress on Finch as the one character left that can bridge the show's halves has been painfully (and awkwardly) apparent. So I don't think the problem is isolating Reese and Root as much as it is that losing Shaw has made it apparent how isolated those two have always been. (And of course the easy response is that absent Shaw, the show should have had Reese become closer to the AI stuff and Root the Number stuff--take them off the island, people!--but I wonder if this is a problem the writers didn't really foresee when they lost Shaw. Or at least ended up way down on the list of concerns when they got the surprise news of Shahi's pregnancy and they thought they had bigger fish to fry.)

 

However, the way in which I DO think complaints that the back half have been less cohesive are correct is because, quite simply, the back half has been far less serialized than the front half (and the serialized episodes have been of weaker quality, which doesn't help). It's made the back half feel very fragmented. If you look at the numbers (and I'm excluding the Shaw quadrilogy from this count for the obvious reason that those are 4 very atypical, climactic sweeps-style episodes):

 

In episodes 1-9, we had 4 episodes (Panopticon, Nautilus, Prophets, and Honor Among Thieves) in which the Number had some form of relevance to the Samaritan/AI storyline. Of the remaining 5 episodes, 4 of them (Wingman, Pretenders, Point of Origin, and The Devil You Know) had Samaritan-relevant subplots. That leaves just 1 episode (Brotherhood) that was Samaritan-free--and that episode, while being atrocious, also effectively introduced the season's other big serialized storyline, the Brotherhood/organized crime component. That leaves exactly 0 true stand-alone episodes in the first half of the season, with 8/9 being tied to Samaritan and 5/9 being tied to the Brotherhood (another way in which the front half felt more cohesive--Samaritan and the Brotherhood were featured together in 4/9 episodes).

 

In contrast, let's look at the 5 back half episodes so far (14-18). In 0 of these 5 episodes has the Number had anything to do with the Samaritan storyline--and in fact, that number becomes 0/6 if you cheat a little and stretch back to MIA--really we haven't had a Samaritan-related Number since 4x07 (!!). In just 2 of the episodes (Q&A and Skip) has there been a real Samaritan-relevant subplot.* At the same time, only 1 of the episodes (Blunt) had anything to with the Brotherhood. That leaves us with 2/5 standalone/unserialized episodes, 2/5 episodes that are Samaritan-relevant but only in the subplot (0/5 in the Number plot), and 1/5 Brotherhood-relevant episode (while Samaritan and the Brotherhood haven't overlapped at all). These numbers, imo, are really what explains why the show is faltering right now.

 

*=I don't count Root's like eighty seconds of screentime in Blunt as a subplot. I also don't think that Greer opportunistically swooping in to take advantage of the Google company's mess in 4x15 really counts as the Number being Samaritan-relevant, though gold star for trying to create that illusion, show. But I mention them because ymmv on these.

 

Now, I do expect some of this to change as we gear up for the last few episodes. If nothing else, it's obvious that Samaritan is going to come to the fore again like in the midseason foursome and the end of S3, and there has to be some form of tie-up on the Brotherhood, even if it's just to launch them into a new phase for next season. But nevertheless, for the moment, the difference in serialization numbers from the front half is glaring, and imo it's the real reason the back half isn't gelling. It's like Samaritan and the Brotherhood decided to take turns going on vacation and leaving the team be for a while. It's jarring, and feels so much less tight than the front half, in which everything seemed to fit together well and flow. And it's exacerbated by the fact that Q&A and Blunt were both very weak as serialized episodes go--neither truly moved its respective storyline along at all, it felt like we were on a hamster wheel spinning our wheel and wasting time. Karma was also not well written, and Skip was, I would say, unevenly written. (And even Skip, which is the only episode since MIA I'd even consider rewatching, was disappointing on the serialized front, even if it did move it along a little if we assume that the trigger for the program on Beth Bridges' laptop is now in Root's hands.)

 

Aside from structure, I have to say that the other thing I've been thinking about recently is casting. Generally I think PoI knocks it out of the park casting-wise, finding actors who are both talented and perfect for their roles. But this season, the casting has been as much miss as hit, and that's not helping either. Now, it hasn't been all bad--I think Silva, Grice, and Martine have all been great in their roles, and I hope we see them all more in the future (Adria Arjona as Silva is a real find imo). More minorly, I've also liked both of Dominic's lieutenants, Link and Floyd. But to varying degrees Claire, Dominic, Harper, and Iris have been casting misfires (Iris more because she has zero chemistry with Caviezel and that's bad if she's the love interest), and those are four key roles that it is...not good not to have cast well. So it's also notable that Martine/Grice/Silva haven't appeared since 11/12/13 respectively, while the back half has been (unfortunately) heavy on the not-so-well cast thus far; at least one of the poor four has been in every back-half episode to date.

 

So, yeah. I am hopeful that the final 4 episodes right the ship and are as good as last season's last 4 (because damn, that was an excellent close to the season last year!). But I also hope the show learns from what DIDN'T work in this spring season and doesn't repeat the mistakes next season....

[stealinghome]

So, while I'm still riding the post-finale high (and also while things are fresh in my mind), a round-up of the season:

 

I would give Season 4 a B/B+ overall, but it's the tale of two halves in many different ways. I feel like this season was a bit schizophrenic, like half of it was an A+ but the other half was a C-. Without If-Then-Else & the episodes surrounding it and Asylum/YHWH, it would definitely be a B-. And this season marks a first for PoI in several respects, I think. It's the first season of PoI that wasn't an improvement on the previous, and it's definitely the first season in which the front half is substantially better than the back half. No two ways about it, 4B was a mess--there was no momentum and very little cohesion. Between 4x13 and 4x21 we were just passing time until 4x21/22 could set up S5, and if those episodes were going to be filler they needed to do important character work, which none but (hopefully) 4x20 did. Losing Shaw really hurt on a number of levels--the show lost its footing after MIA, and I'm not sure it really got it back until Search and Destroy, if not Asylum...if it ever got it back at all. The show handled the build-up to Shahi's maternity leave really well, but it really bungled the follow-up. However, to flip it around and give the show some credit, the first half was probably the best first half the show has ever produced, which is extra-impressive considering that they had to scramble when Shahi got pregnant. The episodes were tense, tight, and did a great job of engendering a sense of paranoia and danger. Maybe writing around Shahi’s pregnancy used up all their mojo and they had none to give to 14-18….

 

Best episode: If-Then-Else (probably the best episode of the show ever). Honorable mentions to, in no particular order, Prophets, The Cold War, Control-Alt-Delete, Asylum.

 

Worst episode: Brotherhood, by a wide margin. That episode was f'ing unwatchable. Dishonorable mentions to Pretenders, Q&A, Blunt, and Karma--seriously, that stretch was just killer.

 

The Great: Everything about If-Then-Else, most especially Shaw going "out" saving her friends (after planting the Big Damn Hero Kiss on Root no less). The potential show reset for S5 as given in YHWH. The Machine showing definitively that she cares for her humans in 4x21, and she and Harold saying goodbye. Reese and Root teaming up, especially rampaging to save/avenge Shaw. In terms of cinematography, Root and Martine's two-level fight in 4x05 (just beautifully choreographed and shot).

 

The (Really) Good: almost everything from episodes 5-13 and 19-22. The focus on Finch/Root this season. The focus on Finch/The Machine set up for next season (PLEASE explore that relationship, writers!). The utter arrogance of Samaritan and its people--you love to hate them. Taking Shoot canon. Fusco, when is he ever not awesome? The Reese/Zoe chemistry (come back Paige Turco!), and Zoe making two reappearances. Hopefully the end of Reese's manpain (please God). Root’s evolution away from The Machine. Everything to do with Control and the ISA, even with the blow at the end of the season. Silva as a Shawdition. The music--several standout tracks this year in both the score and songs chosen (Young Men Dead, Fortune Days, The Violent Bear It Away, and Welcome to the Machine come to mind).

 

The Bad: Dominic and the Brotherhood were a total snoozefest and a waste of space and time--what was the point? And Reese/Iris is SO VERY blah, chemistry-free, cliche, and icky to the nth--it's like we're in another show when they’re together.

 

And a special shout-out to the pacing and episode arrangement in the back half, which was terrible. There was almost NO lead-up to Asylum--we were just treading water from 14-17/18 plotwise and characterwise, as I said above--and then the last two episodes tried to cram way too much in. It’s like Samaritan and the Brotherhood went on vacation for 5 eps, which, what? And it didn’t help that the spring scheduling meant that that was like 2 months real time. So at minimum I would have rearranged the back half so that the order went something like Guilty, Karma, Q&A, Terra Incognita, Blunt, Skip...but if I had my druthers I would entirely re-envision the back half. I would leave Guilty in the 14 slot, it was a nice breather after the heaviness of the Shaw quadrilogy, but then have done the following:
15 - Brotherhood vs Elias episode (keep Root off-screen).
16 - Brotherhood vs Elias episode better than Blunt; give Root and Harold a Samaritan-relevant subplot.
17 - Terra Incognita.
18 - Go full Root Path and flesh out Root's relationship with The Machine way more, that was one of the disappointments of this season (more below). Still work in elements of Harold being Root's last tether as seen in Skip. Give John an Elias vs Brotherhood number in the background and, if we have to keep Iris, have this be the episode he kisses her as a direct result of his sojourn in the mountains and carpe diem realizations.
19 - Search and Destroy (works as the equivalent of last season's Death Benefit).
20 - New AI-heavy episode that provides more build-up.

 

The disappointing: The writers squandered basically all the potential they built up at the end of S3. This season wasn’t bad by any means, but the word that comes to mind is SAFE. The writers just kept playing it safe and being cautious, and it really stopped them from unlocking the season’s full potential. The show returned to its broader status quo way too quickly after the events of S3, and then again after 4x13--I realize that they were thrown a real curveball with SS’s pregnancy, and they handled the build-up well, but they snapped back to the status quo bizarrely quickly after losing Shaw; they didn’t REALLY explore everyone’s emotions about that, nor how losing Shaw would affect the team on an operational level. And from the start of the season, Samaritan coming online should've shaken up the team's dynamics, even if only briefly. The writers were gift-wrapped a GOLDEN opportunity to have there be friction among the team, friction that could deepen the relationships and breathe life into some dynamics (namely Finch/Reese) that have gotten stale, and they totally bypassed it to everyone's detriment.

 

More broadly, there were SO MANY missed opportunities for character development this season. Last season was much, much better at developing the core characters. This season, almost everyone was really quite stagnant. I give the writers a bit of a pass on Shaw because of Shahi's pregnancy (though I like that Shaw finally admitted she cared about the team), but:
-Finch was the most disappointingly static, because he was basically the same from start to end this season. He had no meaningful self-reflection on the events of S3; he sounded like a broken tape recorder basically any time the subject of AIs came up, and his attitude toward The Machine really started to grate; and he basically refused to get in the game re: Samaritan all season long, which was both senseless and maddening. I'm glad the S4 finale seems like it’s going to force him into action, because as I’ve said before, I'm beyond tired of his "stick my head in the sand and wait for my problems to disappear" reflex or his inability to compromise to save many more lives. There may be no good options left, but you know what there are? Better and worse bad options, so for the sake of the world, reconcile yourself to the better bad options. The end of S3 should have brought this home, and if not that, CERTAINLY losing Shaw should have made his lightbulb turn on. GET IN THE GAME, BRO.
-Reese's therapy becoming an excuse for him to be getting sexed up was also very disappointing. Reese is not my cup of tea at all, but therapy had potential to make him interesting again, and then we veered straight into bad and boring cliche territory. (Seriously, Terra Incognita did more for Reese's development than therapy all season.) And he and Iris have no chemistry. Right now, I'm just holding onto the hope that Terra Incognita signals an end of Reese's manpain, because the show has beyond exhausted that well. And also that he and Root work together a lot more next season. They push each other in really interesting ways. And a newly zen Reese+sooo not zen Root could be hilarious.
-Root probably got the best character development of the regulars, but the show still whiffed BAD on her loss of faith in The Machine in the back half. They set that arc up perfectly in the front half, and then pretty much didn't touch it in the second. I *do* like that Root continues to evolve away from The Machine--disobeying orders in 18, manipulating TM in 21, barking at her to "get in the game!" in 22, she and TM feel more like they’re becoming more equal now than a straight up god/prophet relationship--but why did she start listening to The Machine again at all after 4x13? How strained WAS their relationship as she mentions in 4x19? What happened there? And most important, losing faith in TM should have shaken Root to her core and put her entire world view in jeopardy--where was THAT disillusionment? Huge hole in her story.

 

Also disappointing: the cover IDs were really mishandled. They had potential--especially John’s because, as I’ve said elsewhere, he’s very different from the rest of Team Machine in on some level wanting a normal life, and the cover ID could’ve given him a taste of what that life would be like, that would be way better than Dr. Bland--but now they IDs are just tiresome and make no sense. So I'm quite disappointed they seem NOT to be going away.

 

For a show that usually casts well, they had an unfortunate number of misses this season for important recurring roles. I really liked Martine, Grice, Silva, Floyd, and Link, but Claire, Dominic, Harper, and Iris (no chemistry with Caviezel) were varying degrees of miscast. So I'm bummed that we basically lost everyone but Silva from the first list (hard to imagine Floyd showing up in S5), while Claire/Harper/Iris survived to bug us next season.

 

What I want for next season is for the show to stop playing it so damn safe. The end of this season gives a GREAT opportunity to reboot the show--EMBRACE IT, writers! Run with the reboot, shake up the status quo, put Finch and Reese and Root at odds more, DON’T go back to normal immediately. There’s still a lot of potential left in the Samaritan story, so please, show, really explore it. Don’t fumble the snap again.

[Coxfires]

I agree with all of this, more particularly how the show missed out with the development of its characters. Even S1, which is often said as being not that good, had some very good character moments. I also noticed that this season's flashbacks were pretty seldom and not as good as the previous' seasons, except If-Then-else, but the whole episode was a masterpiece. Finch almost killing Corwin was great but the rest of the episode made it flat.

But most of all, this season did lack proaction from all characters, notably after Shaw's death. I hope next season shows the Team taking action in its hands, not sit ducks while waiting for Samaritan to destroy them all. There is a reason why seeing Reese go in God Mode was satisfying, it is because the character had gone So lifeless I didn't recognize the badass who would put a grenade under Fusco's Seat just to get out of a car.

I hope next season shows Finch actively rebuilding the Machine and explore his relation with her, that they clue Fusco in, see more of the Team Rocket kicking ass, and, if Shahi is ok to come back, see Shaw return.

All in all, This wasn't a bad season, but this wasn't a great one, despite some excellent episodes.

[DEM]

I hope that at the upcoming media events someone tries to get clues from the writers about the original plan for S4 and, bonus, how that was disrupted by SS's pregnancy.  Perhaps it's a failure of imagination on my part, but I'm having trouble understanding why it would throw such a wrinkle into the back half of the season -- which was developed several months after they knew Shaw would be gone.

[FurryFury]

Not reading any spoilers, so just my thoughts as I've finally watched episodes 14-19. I have to say, the Dominic storyline and the overall lackluster beginning of the season really soured me on the show, and hearing about stuff like Iris dampened my enthusiasm, thus I had to wait until the season finale to binge.

 

However, thus far, I find the 2nd half overall stronger than the 1st. It has less focus on hated Dominic, more mentions of Samaritan (as it should be) and - most importantly - some very much needed exploration of Finch's morality, which I've long been clamoring for. The episode about the vigilante trying to frame the guy he thought had murdered his wife was pretty effective, and did a long way in explaining Finch's reluctance to murder even when it's absolutely necessary. And then episode 18 had an absolutely killer Finch/Root B-plot (I'm not sure I ever felt this way about a platonic relationship on any show - it's like I ship them, just not romantically, they are so great together they make the show for me). And they've also continued a couple of plotlines from earlier in the season, like the woman who was Finch's contact in Hong Kong, the girl who was recruited by Samaritan, etc. 

 

So far, Iris is the only plotline that doesn't make sense, but I'm kinda convinced she's trying to play Reese, because so much of her actions feel calculated  (and the actress is just too flat). I think the show often has absolutely fantastic writing so I don't want to believe they've made a mistake here... but then, we also somehow got Dominic, so I'm not as sure as I'd love to be.

Edited May 11, 2015 by FurryFury

[FormerMod-a1]

I am so glad this show is finally in syndication.  I am enjoying watching S1/E11 Super right now.  Man the back story on the Machine, the Finch/Reese dynamic, Reese's humor, Finch "tossing Carter into the deep end" to show what they do.  Oh so good.  I think I am going to find this show eminently rewatchable just like seasons 1-4 of Criminal Minds, or most of L&O Original (all very different shows, just ones I can almost always put on and still enjoy in different ways).

[kieyra]

Hey guys. Speaking of Netflix, I'm checking this show out while having a very dead summer, television wise. I truly do not mean to offend any fans, but I've never seen this Jim Caviezel guy in anything before and I have to ask, does his performance ever become less wooden/charmless? I'm about nine episodes in and I'm kind of not sure how he got cast as a lead by the same person who recruited the rest of the cast.

I know nothing about this show other than the episodes I've binged this weekend. I like the premise and the supporting cast.

[stealinghome]

Hey guys. Speaking of Netflix, I'm checking this show out while having a very dead summer, television wise. I truly do not mean to offend any fans, but I've never seen this Jim Caviezel guy in anything before and I have to ask, does his performance ever become less wooden/charmless? I'm about nine episodes in and I'm kind of not sure how he got cast as a lead by the same person who recruited the rest of the cast.

I know nothing about this show other than the episodes I've binged this weekend. I like the premise and the supporting cast.

My short answer would be no, I don't think Jim Caviezel's performance on this show ever drastically improves. With that said, though, I do find Reese more interesting as his rapports with Finch and Carter grow throughout the first season--both characters, albeit in very different ways, push Reese in new directions. He's much more interesting when he bounces off of them. It just takes a while to see that progression.

 

My longer answer is that I really love the show now, but I find S1 to be the weakest season. So I encourage you to stick with it because the show really does improve--it starts getting really good about halfway through S2, and then gets mindblowingly good in the third season. I promise sticking with it is worth it! If you feel like you just can't hang on with the show in S1, skip to the S1 finale, then watch the first 2 episodes of Season 2. Then skip to 2x16, 'Relevance,' then watch the last 2 episodes of Season 2 (though really everything after 2x16 is worth watching), then watch Season 3. The first 4 or so episodes of S3 are just okay, but then it gets really REALLY good from there. And regardless of how one feels about it, I think there's general agreement that PoI becomes much more of an ensemble show in S3, so if Reese isn't your cup of tea, S3/S4 is probably going to be more to your liking. (S4 comes to Netflix in about two weeks.)

[kieyra]

Thank you! Extremely helpful answer, especially since I am NOT a "completionist" and very willing to skip ahead for a show that shows promise, and backfill via Wikipedia. :)

[Trillium]

I'd watch Episode 21 of season 1. Gives the most background on who Reese is and maybe some understanding on why he's the way he his. I'd also say episode 13 and 20 are essential to really understanding the season 1 finale.

[Agent Dark]

If you're binge-watching it anyway, I'd suggest just watching all the episodes.  There's often little bits of mythology peppered in amongst the procedural stuff in S1 and S2 which is well worth it when it comes up again.  With specific regards to Reese, his "wooden" personality will very much part of his character later on, and because almost part of the charm of the Man in the Suit. 

[stealinghome]

I do think S1 and S2 are eventually worth watching in their entirety, but if you're struggling to get through them on the first go, I would watch seasons 3 and 4 first and then go back and watch 1 and 2. I think it can be easier to appreciate those bits and pieces in retrospect, once you know what they add up to.

[Enigma X]

I have never faithfully watched this show, but I have always liked it, catching episodes here and there. I am watching in order now and on the "Get Carter"episode. I really also liked Taraji P. Henson in this but did not realize how much before.

[kahauna]

If you're binge-watching it anyway, I'd suggest just watching all the episodes. There's often little bits of mythology peppered in amongst the procedural stuff in S1 and S2 which is well worth it when it comes up again. With specific regards to Reese, his "wooden" personality will very much part of his character later on, and because almost part of the charm of the Man in the Suit.

This, definitely - especially for things like the origin/introduction of Bear.

[Gigi43]

This, definitely - especially for things like the origin/introduction of Bear.

 

For a show so complex, I should be studying the past episodes in these binges WGN is doing, but the highlight so far has been the Bear episodes and specifically, Harold and Bear. I had kinda forgotten he wasn't always beloved by all. I just saw the other day the first one where Harold actually throws a ball to Bear for the first time and the way Michael Emmerson just looked between Dog and Ball, before deciding to throw it, had me dying.

[alexvillage]

I am just watching this show now, o Netflix. Don't love it, but it is fun and easy to watch.

 

One thing I just HATE about it - which is what I usually hate about every show, and I blame lazy writing - is the "serial villain". They et a super villain to be really awesome and make people's lives hell, we know they will end up dead, in jail or whatever, but we have to put up with the ridiculous stories of how they can do anything, all the things, they have access to all they need, in no time, they fool everybody.

 

In this show it is Root. I am watching the beginning of season 2 and am dreading the new episodes with the character - not to mention that the actress is mediocre. 

 

I love Finch though. If I stick with the show, it will be because  of the character

[Noirprncess]

I haven't really loved this show since they killed off Carter. It seems like her death took whatever story arc they had in mind and killed it. The entire reason for watching was the sort of humanity vs machine question it posed. The rabbit hole it fell down seems to be a complete crater they can't seem to get the show out of.

It's sad because I like the characters they introduced afterward, Shaw and even Root but not really the direction the show took.

[Cranberry]

I spent the past two weeks watching all 90 episodes of this show for the first time. I love it. I loved it when it was a two-man procedural show and I love it now that it's an ensemble mythology show. I enjoy the risks the writers take, doing things like introducing a new character with her own standalone episode ("Relevance"), setting an entire episode in the past ("RAM"), making a good chunk of an episode computer simulations ("If-Then-Else"), and following a recurring character for an entire episode ("Control-Alt-Delete"). (I will say that I probably wouldn't have been as happy with some of those if I were watching week-to-week rather than binge-watching, though, as with the latter I knew I could immediately jump right back into following the core characters.)
 
I love all of the characters (with a couple of minor exceptions, like stupid smug Harper). I was delighted when they added Bear to the show and I'm glad he's been in so many episodes. I love everything Root and Shaw, and I'm still amazed that the writers saw the chemistry there and actually ran with it. I love every scene between Root and Finch, and Shaw and Fusco, and all the other wonderful friendships/relationships/"understandings" (Carter/Elias, Finch/Elias) we've gotten with their own distinct dynamics. And as a computer programmer and someone who's always been simultaneously fascinated by and kind of scared of artificial intelligence, I'm really into the mythology. POI is just a great show all around, and I'm glad there's going to be at least one more season for me to watch (but unhappy that I have to wait until summer).

[hypnotoad]

I just started this on Netflix and am really liking it. I love Carter! I know she's a goner at some point, so I'll enjoy her while I can.

 

I'm a huge Michael Emerson fan, so of course digging him too.

 

 

does his performance ever become less wooden/charmless?

 

I think Reese is supposed to be 'wooden' isn't he? I mean because of his past and blah blah?

 

I just finished the "Get Carter' episode and really enjoyed it. And on I go binge watching ....

Edited February 6, 2016 by hypnotoad

[stealinghome]

I think Reese is supposed to be 'wooden' isn't he? I mean because of his past and blah blah?

I think this is one of those ymmv situations...I personally think there are ways to play "closed off/dead inside" that don't leave me wondering whether or not the actor is actually sleepwalking through scenes.

[Bort]

I think this is one of those ymmv situations...I personally think there are ways to play "closed off/dead inside" that don't leave me wondering whether or not the actor is actually sleepwalking through scenes.

The thing is, Jim Caviezel CAN do "closed off/dead inside" without being too wooden, his character is like that in Frequency.

[dragonsbite]

My short answer would be no, I don't think Jim Caviezel's performance on this show ever drastically improves. With that said, though, I do find Reese more interesting as his rapports with Finch and Carter grow throughout the first season--both characters, albeit in very different ways, push Reese in new directions. He's much more interesting when he bounces off of them. It just takes a while to see that progression.

 

As the others have said, Reese most definitely maintains the stoic attitude throughout. Yet there are moments where Jim Caviezel subtly yet clearly shows emotion or simply a reaction. Watch how he responds to Shaw's attempts to win over Bear (esp. when Bear runs from her to Reese). Pay attention to his interactions with Zoe...amazing amount of chemistry there without a lot of emoting on his part. When she challenges him to another game of poker! And then there's "4C" in Season 3 where Caviezel portrays Reese as very uncomfortable with how emotional he becomes while talking to Finch (end of the episode). You can see the tears in his eyes.  And, of course, his reaction to Carter's shooting.

[peachmangosteen]

I've been watching this for the first time on netflix for a month or so and finally got caught up.

 

I initially started watching because a lot of my friends are big fans of Root/Shaw, so I actually didn't watch all of s1 and s2, just watched the Root/Shaw relevant eps.

 

Overall I really loved this series. When it initially premiered I had no intention of watching it because I didn't think I would be interested in a procedure with two male leads. And tbh I probably wouldn't have kept up with it if I had watched the pilot when it originally aired. I could barely get through it; I just found it quite boring. But I kept with it and I ended up really loving the characters and relationships a lot.

 

Now for an UO, I wasn't a fan of Zoe and I hope she doesn't appear again in s5. I liked her well enough the first time she appeared but with each subsequent appearance I just got more and more tired of her. The Reese/Zoe thing did nothing for me and  just felt super forced.

[ABay]

I'm having a marathon of season 1 on Netflix. I have the DVDs but want to encourage Netflix to keep it. Anyway, I'm currently on Super and I'd forgotten how much I love this episode, the perfect companion for the previous episode--the homage to Rear Window, the Odd Coupling of Finch and Reese, the awesomeness of Nathan. Knowing the whole backstory while rewatching makes me even fonder of Nathan than I was the first time around. The Super is also the first episode that really questioned the invasion of privacy inherent in surveillance. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by ABay

[marina to]

Just saw Carter die for the first time and wow. If I hadn't known what was going to happen, it would have been a kick in the gut. There's so much to love. Kickass Fusco, electrician Finch, that entire final scene.

I wondered why we had the scene with Shaw and the car cop but see now it was to setup the protection of Fusco's son and why Shaw would know to do that. I actually loved Shaw and Fusco working together.

I was also really happy that Root wasn't part of the operation.

But more than anything else, I adored Carter and Resse. That kissing scene turned me into a Caresse shipper. I loved seeing their soft side and the lowering of the barriers added so much to both characters. I know they only went there because they were going to kill her off but I wish I had had the chance to see more of the carefree we saw at the end. It was a good look for both. Of course, we can't have happiness on this show, can we?

[ABay]

I'm watching the end of season 2 and loving all over again the beauty of Ernest Thornhill's name. 

[SharonH58]

I am watching season 4 now.  I wish they hadn't killed Hersh, Anthony and Elias.   I saw Carter's Russian partner and the guy who first had Bear on Turn Washington's spies.

[DeepRunner]

On 5/1/2016 at 9:06 AM, SharonH58 said:

I am watching season 4 now.  I wish they hadn't killed Hersh, Anthony and Elias.   I saw Carter's Russian partner and the guy who first had Bear on Turn Washington's spies.

Yeah, all three were GREAT villains. Hersh and Anthony died heroes' deaths. Elias, who is one of my all-time favorite bad guys, deserved to die a better way than Dominic, Grice, and Schiffman. 

[Syme]

3 hours ago, DeepRunner said:

 Elias, who is one of my all-time favorite bad guys, deserved to die a better way than Dominic, Grice, and Schiffman. 

I loved Elias. He was an opponent/ally worthy of Finch. But then, he will always be Keith Mars to me, and Mathesar.

[DeepRunner]

5 hours ago, Syme said:

I loved Elias. He was an opponent/ally worthy of Finch. But then, he will always be Keith Mars to me, and Mathesar.

Ditto, Syme. But Elias might have been Enrico Colantoni's best exploration as a cold-hearted, cold-blooded, killing, anti-hero.

[Driad]

The POI writers seem to be rather fond of the expression "Oops!"  Here are two examples from the latest three episodes.  Please add others if you know them.  Maybe someone can make a video collection.

S05.E06: A More Perfect Union -- Reese bashed a bad guy with a wrapped wedding gift.

S06.E08: Reassortment -- Shaw told a doctor how she would disable her, then did it and realized she had missed a step.

[elle]

WGN is airing what they are calling "The Carter Collection" on Saturday, 5/28.   One of my favorite epsiodes is "Lady Killer" with Carter, Zoe, and Shaw teaming up at the beginning.  Then at the end a favorite scene with the ladies, sans Root, happens at the end with them wrapping things up in a bar with Reese waiting outside to walk Zoe home, Carter has a date "with her son", leaving Shaw to go home with Bear.  Of course, she informs him that he will be sleeping at her place.  Shaw and Bear <3

[Gigi43]

I'd like to know who at WGN picked these episodes. "Lady Killer" is kinda the first one in this WGN marathon that I really feel reflects the supposed theme, aside from the first episode and that's really because it was the first episode, Carter's role wasn't exactly huge.  "Ghosts" she was barely in, "Bad Code" is a Root centered episode to me, I didn't watch either this morning,  "2 Pi R" is a solid Finch-centered episode that has a Carter B-story. How do you not show "Get Carter" in a Carter marathon?! No "Legacy"? "Zero Day"?  Does WGN not have the rights to "Terra Incognita" yetI?  Complaints aside, the scene in Lady Killer where Shaw, Zoe and Carter show off their weapons and Shaw telling Carter she can barrow her gun anytime, is one of my favorite scenes of the series. I'm a sucker for women being bad asses and friends, I really like Shaw and Carter -including Shaw admiring the footage of Carter- in "Endgame" (on now.)

 

I watched the Pilot this morning. Man, with every new episode of Fusco being the awesome guy we've come to know, that scene of Fusco driving Reese out to Oyster Bay talking about how he got involved with the corrupt cops just gets better and better to look back on. I don't know how many times I've seen the Pilot, but over all it was an especially hard viewing given what will probably come of Team Machine very soon. Also frustrating because while certain characters have come a long way Finch is still so freaking stubborn about the machine in general and sharing information.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Gigi43

[elle]

3 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

I'd like to know who at WGN picked these episodes.

With the exception of those that show entire series at one time, I don't think there has been a binge-a-thon for any show where I didn't ask that question!

I missed the early shows, but I did wonder why it was ending as early in the day as it did.  Now I know why, they didn't show all of the Carter episodes.  They have access to the first 4 or 5 seasons, I wouldn't think specific episodes would be unavailable to them.

3 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

I really like Shaw and Carter -including Shaw admiring the footage of Carter-

She's so proud of her girl!  I also love Reese's disbelief - That's *my* grenade launcher?!

Not a Carter scene, but a Shaw scene that I love is the one with her and Fusco in the car where he thanks her for saving his son.  

[fastiller]

Over the past week+ I've watched all of S01 and the first few episodes of S02.  I'd forgotten how early on in the series we first meet Root. I'd also forgotten how early on we first meet Bear.   

On this re-watch, I'm really impressed with (among several things): the acting chops on Emerson, Henson and Caviezel; the seamlessness with which Zoe Morgan comes into and out of the action; how much scarier Kara Stanton is than Alexandra Borgia; the planting of seeds for future use.

[fastiller]

I've got to the start of S05.  Until I'd re-watched S04, E22 (YHWH), I'd forgotten about the masterful use of Pink Floyd's Welcome to the Machine at the end.  I got goose-bumps at the first couple of chords.

Gee, if you read my previous post and this one, I must come across as really forgetful.

[mtlchick]

Thank you Space and M3 in Canada for giving me the chance to virtually binge through the first 3 seasons before you decided not to air season 4 (Space) or going defunct (M3.) It seems I need watch more of season 2 and less of season 3 that I realized.  I'll have more thoughts later but my main takeaway was: Finch was really strict on the machine and despite virtually EVERYONE to loosen the reins a bit or realize that Samaritan was going to be a big thing, he didn't.

Also Reese got a shot a LOT.  How he didn't get a shoulder replacement by the end of season 3 surprises me to no end.  

Finally, an episode with Bear makes it so much better.  

[fastiller]

On 9/2/2016 at 2:49 PM, mtlchick said:

Also Reese got a shot a LOT.  How he didn't get a shoulder replacement by the end of season 3 surprises me to no end.  

Finally, an episode with Bear makes it so much better.  

Yes, there are probably bones in Reese's body that go off in 100% unnatural angles.  Also, I think he would've likely fallen victim to concussion related dementia in later life.

And Bear makes everything better.  I miss him and his thoughtful tweets.

[elle]

WGN is running the final season episodes on Fridays.  Getting to catch up on the ones I missed, though I suspect that the mystery of the missing persons will still remain unsolved for me.

[palmaire]

Please forgive a latecomer as I've been watching the past couple of weeks for the first time.

I'm just starting season five but there are a few Things I Need to Get off my Chest:

• Can't stand Iris. Why Reese would have the slightest interest in that zero personality milquetoast with no professional ethics is beyond me. I hope he ditches her soon.
• If every bad guy who sees Reese nicknames him the man in the suit, he needs to quit wearing the damned suit.
• I've never had this thought before about a TV show, but there are too many badass women -- assassins, enemy agents, government agents, random hacker killers for hire, soccer mom spies, crime lord underbosses, etc. All super good looking. It's Mary Sue overload.
• Caveziel playing Reese with lockjaw. Certainly there must be other ways to convey emotional repression and stoicism while still moving his mouth. At least the writers had one character ask why he talked like that.

Overall I'm really enjoying the show. I watched an episode or two when it originally aired but it didn't hold my interest. Binging gave it a big boost. If there's a dividing line here, I'm on the side of those who think the later seasons were the best.  :)

Was sorry to lose Carter but came to love Shaw. Tolerated Root. Fusco, Reese and Finch for the win.