Spoilers and Speculation

[Gobi]

Not to be a spoil sport, but this could just be standard contract negotiation tactics on AL's part. 

[leto]

Congrats to Andrew Lincoln for escaping this mess.  I just read that Norman Reedus re-negotiated for $20 million for Season 9, which is a travesty because its pretty likely that Danai and Melissa, who actually can act, are probably not getting paid any where near as much money...

[CrazyDog]

Well, damn. I still enjoy the show, but I was really in it for Rick. I have found Rick and his story (major flaws and all) to be the compelling core of the show. I will likely watch to the end, but it won't be the same, at all. I really wanted to see him go to the end, and hand the torch to Carl...but that ain't happening. Leaving after just one more season just makes me think his story will just end abruptly, and not give anything near the satisfying conclusion I've hoped for since the beginning. Damn damn. What a waste. 

If they thought killing Carl lost the show viewers....

I'm wishing for a reboot do-over with new writers. Can we just pick up after season 5 and redo the rest? 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I wouldn't hold out too much hope for a big grand "heroic" death for Rick.

We've seen the guy bite & tear a throat out, hack up people to pieces with a hatchet, murdered countless 'victims', survive gun fights with nary a scratch, survive serious hits & walker-gore infection attempts and has taken on hordes of walkers almost singlehandedly.  How much can there be left, in terms of obstacles, put in his path to truly earn a "hero's death"?

Knowing the depths this ship has sunk to in recent times, I'm willing to bet that while near Negan's cell, he turns his back to Negan - who, while still in his cell, somehow obtains a sharp object - only for Negan to take him by surprise and shows him how to properly slit someone's throat by using Rick's carotid artery as the demonstration tool.

Edited May 30, 2018 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[shanndee]

Well, thats it then. I have found my "last straw" for this show. I'll finish S9, then I'm out.

I have really, really enjoyed this forum. I hope another show surfaces that everyone here enjoys. I would really love to read all of your thoughtful commentary there. Here's to hoping for a new series soon!

(Congrats on escaping this shipwreck Andrew Lincoln!)

[nodorothyparker]

Yep.  It's being reported that Norman Reedus is getting $20 million out of this.  That's like a million dollars per intelligible word of dialogue.

http://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead/2018/05/29/the-walking-dead-daryl-dixon-norman-reedus-huge-paycheck/

And more babbling from Andy Lincoln about Rick's "renewed sense of purpose" after Carl's death as he leads up to his exit.  So who knows, maybe instead of being killed off he'll say fuck it all and go wander the earth like he thinks he's in 70s TV.

https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/andrew-lincoln-leaving-the-walking-dead-after-season-9/

[raven]

15 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Yep.  It's being reported that Norman Reedus is getting $20 million out of this.  That's like a million dollars per intelligible word of dialogue.

WOW.  I mean, he seems like a decent guy and all so good for him but...still doesn't make him lead material.   Melissa McBride and Danai Gurira can actually act; so can Khary Payton for that matter (when given decent material) and he has a lot of charisma, as do MM and DG, who can elevate material most of the time. 

Quote

Not to be a spoil sport, but this could just be standard contract negotiation tactics on AL's part. 

I don't know, everything being said is so definitive.  Back for eps and then gone.  I'd think the news would be more vague if it were a tactic.  I don't pay attention to contract stuff unless it's a show I watch so I don't know if this is standard, plus AL hasn't made a statement.  

[jsbt]

To be honest I think they'll reverse themselves and cancel it at the end of S9. Try to spin it off again somehow, maybe with Daryl and/or a time jump. The reaction is too much.

Naive, maybe, but I just feel like Lincoln is going to be the signal for a lot of the cast and crew to say 'peace'.

[peach]

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Andy Lincoln is leaving the show. They are paying Norman big money to be the new lead.

http://collider.com/andrew-lincoln-leaving-walking-dead-season-9/

This gave me sadz even though I barely watch and they ruined everything with Carl.  Just sad at what my favorite show has become, when it could have been so great.

 

 

4 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Since she's probably gonzo after next season as well, here's hoping that Rick & Maggie take each other out over their pissing contest about Negan.

@Nashville

Then this made me laugh.  I'm all for some kind of epic Sergio Leone shootout that kills them all at this point.  The End.

[peach]

I wonder why they let this information out.   They always try to hide a big exit or leave it an open question of some kind.  To flat out say the main character is leaving is surprising.  By all accounts, he was very upset about what happened with Chandler, so I wonder how crappy things might be behind the scenes. 

Chris Hardwick has his work cut out for him.  lol

[raven]

3 minutes ago, peach said:

Chris Hardwick has his work cut out for him.  lol

LOL I didn't even think about this.  They should throw a few million at Chris!

[SimoneS]

19 minutes ago, peach said:

I wonder why they let this information out.   They always try to hide a big exit or leave it an open question of some kind.  To flat out say the main character is leaving is surprising.  

AMC didn't announce Andy's departure, in fact, their official statement is "no comment." Somehow Collider found out and published the news as an exclusive.

[jsbt]

I believe EW then corroborated it as well. Collider alone, a geek-centric outlet, would not be able to get the traffic this is getting.

Edited May 30, 2018 by jsbt

[peach]

It's in US Weekly

[SimoneS]

1 minute ago, jsbt said:

I believe EW then corroborated it as well. Collider alone, a geek-centric outlet, would not be able to get the traffic this is getting.

Brandon Davis from comicbook.com who has insider information corroborated Collider's exclusive first, then other entertainment media including Deadline confirmed it. EW was pretty late to the party.

[peach]

1 minute ago, SimoneS said:

Brandon Davis from comicbook.com who has insider information corroborated Collider's exclusive first, then other entertainment media including Deadline confirmed it. EW was pretty late to the party.

I was just reading that comicbook.com says they confirmed it from "multiple, independent sources."  And it's exploding all over the net right from the big outlets, so I guess it must be true. 

[jsbt]

13 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Brandon Davis from comicbook.com who has insider information corroborated Collider's exclusive first, then other entertainment media including Deadline confirmed it. EW was pretty late to the party.

Yes, but my point was it would not have gotten the kind of spread it now has at major outlets from Collider and comicbook.com alone.

[maystone]

I'm not surprised that Andy is leaving after S9, but I'm shocked that he's only in 6 episodes. WTH? I want to know the story behind that decision, because I can see that as punishment for him wanting out, as stupid a move as that would be. But after killing off Carl, stupid moves seem to be the only kind of moves that AMC makes.

You know, if they do a time jump to start S9, it's the perfect timing to clean up Daryl Dixon in all the ways that character needs to  be overhauled. Or retro-hauled. Daryl used to be a great character, and I really believe that he can be a great character again. He can't carry the show, but if the story goes on to be about civilization building (as some rumors suggest), then that means that Carol and Ezekiel can get some quality time and help with the heavy lifting - finally.

I said that I'll stick with the show until the bitter end, but damn, skippy . . . I wasn't expecting quite this amount of bitter.

[peach]

I guess maybe some folks are giving a little payback to AMC by leaking this?

[SimoneS]

3 minutes ago, maystone said:

I'm not surprised that Andy is leaving after S9, but I'm shocked that he's only in 6 episodes. WTH? I want to know the story behind that decision, because I can see that as punishment for him wanting out, as stupid a move as that would be. 

I don't get the only six episode appearances either. It doesn't give time for much of a goodbye. Unless Andy refused to give them more time to wrap up Rick's story. I wonder if it has something to do with Lauren only being in six episodes in 9A also. Maybe Rick and Maggie's fates are intertwined and they die together somehow.

Edited May 30, 2018 by SimoneS

[jsbt]

Sounds like the dude just wants out!

[maystone]

21 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I don't get the only six episode appearances either. It doesn't give time for much of a goodbye. Unless Andy refused to give them more time to wrap up Rick's story. I wonder if it has something to do with Lauren only being in six episodes in 9A also. Maybe Rick and Maggie's fates are intertwined and they die together somehow.

 

Have you seen some verification that he's only in 9A? Collider only said six episodes during S9 which sounds all kinds of crazy cakes, but doing 6 episodes and out at the end of the front half seems more palatable, for lack of a better term. Like I can see a story that could sustain that rather than dribs and drabs over 16 episodes.

Edited May 30, 2018 by maystone

[SimoneS]

7 minutes ago, maystone said:

Have you seen some verification that he's only in 9A? Collider only said six episodes during S9 which sounds all kinds of crazy cakes, but doing 6 episodes and out at the end of the front half seems more palatable, for lack of a better term. Like I can see a story that could sustain that rather than dribs and drabs over 18 episodes.

No confirmation that the six episodes are only in 9A, but he is filming now. Reports are they are filming episode three now and we have seen photos of him on horseback. It is difficult to see how they can spread the story over 16 episodes when he is already in the first three. They must be filming the other three now because I can't see Andy coming back to film in 9B. Lauren is also in the photos of them on horseback. Her new show starts filming in summer so she won't be available to film in 9B. This is why I am speculating that whatever takes both of them from the show happens in 9A. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by SimoneS

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

How much can there be left, in terms of obstacles, put in his path to truly earn a "hero's death"?

Killing Negan would be heroic IMO

[maystone]

3 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

No confirmation that the six episodes are only in 9A, but he is filming now. Reports are they are filming episode three now and we have seen photos of him on horseback. It is difficult to see how they can spread the story over 16 episodes when he is already in the first three. They must be filming the other three now because I can't see Andy coming back to film in 9B. Lauren is also in the photos of them on horseback. Her new show starts filming in summer so she won't be available to film in 9B. This is why I am speculating that whatever takes both of them from the show happens in 9A. 

Thanks, that does make more sense.

[chick binewski]

3 hours ago, jsbt said:

Given the money he's made on this show I wouldn't blame Lincoln if he wants to just go somewhere with central air conditioning and stay there for about ten years.

Yeah, based on the filming conditions alone I think it's admirable Lincoln has spent 8 seasons running around the Georgia heat. It's not like the show bothered to actually relocate once they put the story in Alexandria. 

1 hour ago, peach said:

I wonder why they let this information out.   They always try to hide a big exit or leave it an open question of some kind.

This was a head-scratcher for me, too. The (very tiny) optimistic part of me was reading the articles as 'Rick is gonna get on the helicopter to teach the re-established government some mad survival skillz and he'll be back for the series finale!'. But mostly I was thinking Lincoln leaked this because he's done.

[Artsda]

Seems like it could be money related, since they announce Norman got 20M. Maybe leaking this is a bargaining move?

http://deadline.com/2018/05/andrew-lincoln-the-walking-dead-leaving-season-9-amc-1202399473/

[peach]

47 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Seems like it could be money related, since they announce Norman got 20M. Maybe leaking this is a bargaining move?

http://deadline.com/2018/05/andrew-lincoln-the-walking-dead-leaving-season-9-amc-1202399473/

Maybe Andy already decided to leave, and THEN they gave Norman 20M, and THEN Andy was like AYFKM, and then leaked the story.   That's my head canon.

[AgentRXS]

I applaud any of you willing to stay till the bitter end. Darryl outlived his usefulness to me seasons ago and I just can't see him as lead, especially vs. Negan. I'm getting off the crazy train at Andy's stop.

Edited May 30, 2018 by AgentRXS

[Nashville]

6 hours ago, SimoneS said:

This is what I don't understand. Why did they kill off Carl to give Rick a warped reason to keep Negan alive if Andy was leaving? Now the two characters around whom the show pivoted are gone. I can only think of two possibilities; they didn't know that Andy was leaving and so soon which seems improbable or there was a behind the scenes drama with Chandler.

There’s a third, much more prosaic possible reason why Carl was killed off, and it doesn’t have anything to do with Rick or Negan, or any other character in the show - and that includes Carl, if truth be told.  

That reason? Chandler Riggs - or, more specifically, Chandler Riggs turning 18:

1. Chandler was graduating high school, with plans to attend college.  Coordinating shooting of Carl’s scenes around Chandler’s college schedule was probably not a firing issue, but may have been a compounding factor when taken in conjunction with some others.
2. Thanks to the show’s absolutely godforfuckingsaken horrible time pacing (i.e., an entire season/year’s shooting to cover every bit of two days in the show timeline), Chandler’s true chronological age had completely outstripped the age of his character, who should be somewhere around 11-12 in the current story line.  Again - probably not a firing issue, but may have been a compounding factor.
3. Most likely the strongest reason: when Chandler turned 18, he would no longer be subject to child labor law restraints - and the studio couldn’t afford Chandler working full-time adult hours.

[peach]

2 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Most likely the strongest reason: when Chandler turned 18, he would no longer be subject to child labor law restraints - and the studio couldn’t afford Chandler working full-time adult hours.
 

But they can afford giving Norman 20 million dollars.

It has just occurred to me that Norman getting an AMC contract for 20M might include him doing two shows, TWD and his motorcycle show.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Killing Negan would be heroic IMO

It sure would be........

except slashing the guy's throat open only caused motor-mouth Negan a mere inconvenience with some stronger-than-usual laryngitis. 

And that proves to me that Negan is, and will be (with all the news of departures hitting the net), the "star attraction" for some time yet.  And I will not stick around to watch this Titanic knowingly and willingly steer itself into an iceberg that will well and truly sink it to the depths of past the point of saving.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, peach said:

But they can afford giving Norman 20 million dollars.

It has just occurred to me that Norman getting an AMC contract for 20M might include him doing two shows, TWD and his motorcycle show.

That’s what I had figured; the $20M would be a bundle package including TWD, Ride, and possibly other shows/specials.

That brings another question to my mind, though; given his past work history, why would Norm permit himself to be locked down so with such a contract?  It seems totally out of character.

[SimoneS]

@maystone, below is the link to the Just Jared season 9 photos of TWD cast filming. Rick, Michonne, and others are on horseback. Maggie is actually driving the horse carriage. Daryl is on a motorcycle. These photos were taken early May and from the change in the characters' appearances (e.g. hair length), they indicate a time jump. 

http://www.justjared.com/2018/05/03/walking-dead-set-photos-show-cast-on-horseback-for-season-9/  

Edited May 30, 2018 by SimoneS

[nodorothyparker]

6 hours ago, Nashville said:

That brings another question to my mind, though; given his past work history, why would Norm permit himself to be locked down so with such a contract?  It seems totally out of character.

Media's also reporting that he's starting a second family with the current girlfriend at the tender age of 49.  I have no way of knowing because of course I'm merely a peon out here in the working world but I would imagine even in the entertainment industry $20 million is a lot of money if you're no longer a hot young thing and you have a baby on the way.

[peach]

I think we all know TWD can't have too many seasons left to be locked down on.  And The Ride seems like his baby and he just gets to ride around with friends and fo his own travelogue which looks fun.  So, yeah, he's got a really sweet deal at this stage in his life.  Andy is the one getting ripped off after spending a decade on this.   Norman is the rare individual NOT getting robbed by AMC.

[peach]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

@maystone, below is the link to the Just Jared season 9 photos of TWD cast filming. Rick, Michonne, and others are on horseback. Maggie is actually driving the horse carriage. Daryl is on a motorcycle. These photos were taken early May and from the change in the characters' appearances (e.g. hair length), they indicate time jump. 

http://www.justjared.com/2018/05/03/walking-dead-set-photos-show-cast-on-horseback-for-season-9/  

Jadis is driving the wagon.  

[Eyes High]

16 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

It's so strange.  When we first saw and heard hints of Negan on the show -- before actually seeing the character appear onscreen -- like the creepy whistling and the scenes where his scary men kept blocking the roads so our gang could not drive through, etc., there was real suspense there.  They did a good job of building up that feeling of fear and terror to make us think that whoever or whatever we were about to meet was somehow worse than all of the villains we had previously met.   Negan's presence, when he finally showed his face, was ominous.

But now... any time Negan is onscreen, he is just a caricature.  I always mutter to myself, with a giant eye roll, "Oh Lord... it's this idiot again.   Why is no one getting rid of him?"   That whole air of menace and evil is gone.  He just seems like a buffoonish fool at this point, spewing all of his random threats that everyone has heard a million times. 

Sure, it would be great if Negan could somehow change and become a decent person and babysitter for Judith, but how likely is that to happen?  Not very likely.   They have wasted too much time on that character, and I hate to say that because JDM is a talented and charismatic actor.

But is Negan going to outlive Rick?  I would assume/hope he is not?

Basic rule of horror: the less seen (and heard), the scarier. The power of suggestion is the scariest thing of all, which is why a table full of personal effects at Terminus is the most terrifying image in that episode.The moment you show specifics, you’re already going uphill, and the moment you explain the monster (or the monster explains itself) it loses its power. Negan gets less and less frightening with every word that comes out of his mouth, and Negan talks a lot.

I will say that TV Negan is true to his comic book self and he really is this obnoxious and frankly silly in the comics, but that’s hardly an excuse. Some of the show’s most iconic characters have nothing to do with the source material. If they care so much about the source material, they can go ahead and resurrect Carl.

Hard to believe Andrew Lincoln’s out. End of an era.

If AMC is dumb enough to give Norman that much money, I can’t blame him for taking it.

[TVFan17]

14 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't know why anyone would want this series cancelled.  If people are at the point where they can't watch the show anymore, not even for snarking purposes, don't.  Just move on to something else.  Whether the show is still on the air or cancelled shouldn't matter to anyone who no longer has any interest in it.   No one is forcing anyone to watch.

Even with all of its flaws, and there are many, this show is still better than much of the other crap on television.  Granted, this show isn't as good as it used to be.  Maybe over time it will get better, stay the same, or get worse.  It has to be one of those three.  I will ride it out, there is nothing else on in that time slot that interests me.

If Lincoln stays or goes, Rick does not matter.  Rick can be replaced.

I think that sometimes shows just lose steam and they never quite get back the magic that they had in earlier years.  It happens to almost all shows that are on the air for a long, long time.    Or... sometimes viewers just outgrow certain shows and it might not be the fault of the actual show itself.  

I think that people are hanging in there with this show because they have already invested so much time in it, and they want to see it through to the very end -- but that doesn't mean that everyone necessarily loves what has been happening on it in the last couple of seasons (they might even hate what has been happening).   But people want to follow the characters they have known from the first couple of seasons to their final episodes.

In my case, I am not actively championing for cancellation.  I know that other people still like the show.  But I am definitely at the point where I am either outgrowing it, or it is becoming stale (to me), and it is becoming more of a chore to keep up with than I would like it to be.   In the old days, I would never miss an episode, but if I happen to miss one now, it's not a huge deal as I figure I'll just catch it at some other point in time.  I still feel I have to stick with the show to the bitter end, though, even if I am bored, because I have devoted so much time and energy to it.  So, unless they suddenly replace all of the remaining longtime characters and bring in a whole new cast that I don't know or care about, I will try to hang in there until it ends (which could be sooner rather than later at this rate).

However, if the show does end up getting cancelled, or it is mutually agreed upon by everyone involved to end it, I will probably agree that it is time for them to wrap it up.  I am not going to protest, in other words.  I think there could be more story to tell about the ZA in other areas of the world, but that would probably have to be a separate spinoff and not something that happens on the original series.

[TVFan17]

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

@maystone, below is the link to the Just Jared season 9 photos of TWD cast filming. Rick, Michonne, and others are on horseback. Maggie is actually driving the horse carriage. Daryl is on a motorcycle. These photos were taken early May and from the change in the characters' appearances (e.g. hair length), they indicate time jump. 

http://www.justjared.com/2018/05/03/walking-dead-set-photos-show-cast-on-horseback-for-season-9/  

I tend to like Rick with slightly longer/fuller hair than what he has in those photos, but it looks as though he stopped at the local ZA Supercuts at some point -- probably the same one Negan uses for his freshly trimmed hair.

Edited May 30, 2018 by TVFan17

[Mu Shu]

Pfft.  I have a love hate thing for Rick, but I will not watch while these fuckers kill him off. 

AL has probably made enough money to move on.  Since most of the scripts are shit sandwiches, I don’t blame him.

20 mil for Daryl?  What the fuck ever.  

[Nashville]

6 hours ago, SimoneS said:

@maystone, below is the link to the Just Jared season 9 photos of TWD cast filming. Rick, Michonne, and others are on horseback. Maggie is actually driving the horse carriage. Daryl is on a motorcycle. These photos were taken early May and from the change in the characters' appearances (e.g. hair length), they indicate time jump. 

http://www.justjared.com/2018/05/03/walking-dead-set-photos-show-cast-on-horseback-for-season-9/  

Spoiler tags applied to avoid accidental coronaries:

Spoiler

Daryl has apparently washed his hair.  ;>

[Boofish]

Well with the departure of Rick, I'm done. Man I used to ride hard for this show but I cannot imagine the story without Rick AND Carl. Why don't they just flash forward and have Rick telling Judith how much he loves Robin? I mean, if you are going down in flames, don't half ass it

Edited May 30, 2018 by Boofish

[peach]

5 minutes ago, Boofish said:

Well with the departure of Rick, I'm done. Man I used to ride hard for this show but I cannot imagine the story with Rick AND Carl. Why don't they just flash forward and have Rick telling Judith how much he loves Robin? I mean, if you are going down in flames, don't have ass it

This was in the Daily Mail, quoting the Hollywood Reporter:  the time jump is apparently a quantum leap.  <me rolling my eyes>
 

Quote

Scott M. Gimple, the show's chief content officer, said the program is primed to 'evolve in a huge way' as it enters its ninth season. 

'It just feels new,' Gimple told The Hollywood Reporter last month. 'It feels like an evolved show.'

He told the publication that while the show 'very much lived in the world that Rick began with' and 'was so informed by the pilot,' the ninth season 'just takes this quantum leap forward in the stories we're telling.' 

It's like it's a spinoff of itself. 

[Nashville]

23 minutes ago, peach said:

It's like it's a spinoff of itself. 

With the TV show axing so many of the major GN characters, IMHO that’s all it CAN be.

[CrazyDog]

I'm kind of thinking they won't actually kill Rick off...maybe they will, but I could see him getting exiled, or going on walkabout, or something. But what will happen to Judith, either way? Would he leave her? Or will they actually do the shocking, now not-shocking death? Either way, only 6 episodes to wrap up his story sucks. Has AMC said anything yet?

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, peach said:

I think we all know TWD can't have too many seasons left to be locked down on.  And The Ride seems like his baby and he just gets to ride around with friends and fo his own travelogue which looks fun.  So, yeah, he's got a really sweet deal at this stage in his life.  Andy is the one getting ripped off after spending a decade on this.   Norman is the rare individual NOT getting robbed by AMC.

Andy needs Norm’s agent.  ;)

Edited May 30, 2018 by Nashville
Typo

[peach]

15 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Andy needs Norm’s agent.  ;)

 

Andy is an actor, and Norman is a brand.  This will always make it tough for Andy in this industry.  Regardless of whether people think Daryl is deserving of a lead role, Norman is a huge asset in promoting the show.  He works social media, he loves the fans, he is always accessible, while Andy wants to have a private family life, in England, as much as possible.  And that's a laudable goal.  But in this era, being an Instagram star and having a high profile life is integral to big money success. 

Edited to add that I think a lot of Norman's success in that area is that he seems to genuinely enjoy all of that and it's not all calculated hustle. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by peach

[peach]

I remember seeing Andy on a panel years ago, and someone asked what he thought about the funny memes about him saying Stuff And Thangs, and poor Andy didn't even know what a meme was, much less that he was the subject of them. Or that  throwaway lines he doesn't remember about stuff and thangs were "a thing."  He doesn't even watch the show.  lol

[Nashville]

2 minutes ago, peach said:

Andy is an actor, and Norman is a brand.  This will always make it tough for Andy in this industry.  Regardless of whether people think Daryl is deserving of a lead role, Norman is a huge asset in promoting the show.  He works social media, he loves the fans, he is always accessible, while Andy wants to have a private family life, in England, as much as possible.  And that's a laudable goal.  But in this era, being an Instagram star and having a high profile life is integral to big money success. 

To be fair - Norm’s had a LOT longer time to deal with this sort of fame and it’s ramifications.  TWD’s premiere in 2010 was Andy’s first foray into the realm of superstardom, while Norm has been riding this wave since Boondocks Saints (1999).