S04.E05: Quite A Ride

[revbfc]

On 9/3/2018 at 10:20 PM, Shriekingeel said:

A thoroughly entertaining episode with lots of classic Jimmy/Saul antics. 

 

Kim with the O BABY WHAT IS YOU DOING moment with her passive aggressive attempt to get herself fired from MV. Not sure why she’s doing that. 

 

Loved the symbolism of Saul literally slicing up/gutting the law in the flash forward. 

 

Why was the first SuperLab architect rejected?

He talked specifically about past jobs.

Edited September 11, 2018 by revbfc
Autocorrect changed “specifically,” to “specially,” and I just noticed it now. The embarrassment BURNS!

[Bannon]

Spoiler

The preview for next week has Mike saying to Gus something along the lines of "Not only do we need to keep them alive, we need to keep them from climbing the walls"

This ties in to what I was thinking during the engineer scenes in the laundry. All the construction workers are going to have to stay on site until the job is done. You can't have a bunch of guys arriving every night, leaving every morning, hoping it isn't noticed. This is an incredibly complex undertaking, and I think it plays a major role in the development of the relationship beween Mike and Gus.

[Bryce Lynch]

17 minutes ago, Bannon said:

In contrast to the recap, I thought the scenes of Mike and the engineers were interesting  useful, and necessary. We can't just have a 007 movie-style hollowed out volcano appear; that's one reason why I've disliked Bond movies, and frankly I kind of disliked how Gus just had a superlab undeneath an industrial laundry, awaiting Walt, in BB. I looked past it at the time, because the BB world was complex enough, and these aren't 26 episode seasons.

This is a show that has Mike and Gus as major characters, prior to meeting Walt. The construction of the superlab has to be part of the story, and if it is going to part of the story, it ought to be done right, giving some sense of how intense a project it was, thus making Mike and Gus tightly connected. I suspect that Nacho will get connected to this as well.

I always assumed the laundry always had a basement, and they just built a lab in it.  That would have been way easier and cheaper to build.  But, I guess the fact that doing in Gus's way the city would have no records that a basement ever existed would greatly reduce the chances of the lab ever being discovered.  

I do wonder how Fring and the engineer plan to do all that digging, including blasting, in the middle of town without being discovered.  How many men will be working on this project?  In the preview for episode 406 Mike tells Fring

Spoiler

"We just can't keep them alive.  We need to keep them from climbing the walls."

  I wonder if this refers to the lab diggers.  

[ShadowFacts]

16 minutes ago, Bannon said:

In contrast to the recap, I thought the scenes of Mike and the engineers were interesting  useful, and necessary. We can't just have a 007 movie-style hollowed out volcano appear; that's one reason why I've disliked Bond movies, and frankly I kind of disliked how Gus just had a superlab undeneath an industrial laundry, awaiting Walt, in BB. I looked past it at the time, because the BB world was complex enough, and these aren't 26 episode seasons.

This is a show that has Mike and Gus as major characters, prior to meeting Walt. The construction of the superlab has to be part of the story, and if it is going to part of the story, it ought to be done right, giving some sense of how intense a project it was, thus making Mike and Gus tightly connected. I suspect that Nacho will get connected to this as well.

I'm kind of with the recapper on this.  It doesn't really matter to me how the fantastic lab was built.  We see one more instance of the meticulous planning of Mike, the retired beat cop with a propensity for research or sniffing out illicit connections. That's fine as far as it goes and I'm glad we didn't see him ask the vet.  I would have rather seen the fallout from his outburst at the support group last week.  There's room for exploration of both things but with such short seasons with few episodes, I would rather see some blanks filled in about his inner life than about the construction of a lab.

1 minute ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I wonder if this refers to the lab diggers.  

I wonder if Gus will be fine with a simple non-disclosure agreement, or if they just disappear.

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I always assumed the laundry always had a basement, and they just built a lab in it.  That would have been way easier and cheaper to build.  But, I guess the fact that doing in Gus's way the city would have no records that a basement ever existed would greatly reduce the chances of the lab ever being discovered.  

I do wonder how Fring and the engineer plan to do all that digging, including blasting, in the middle of town without being discovered.  How many men will be working on this project?  In the preview for episode 406 Mike tells Fring

  Hide contents

"We just can't keep them alive.  We need to keep them from climbing the walls."

  I wonder if this refers to the lab diggers.  

We are thinking alike, obviously. The part of Albuquerque where this is located is industrial, so noise wouldn't necessarily be a problem. Moving that much soil and rock, however, without attracting notice, will take ingenuity.

[Bryce Lynch]

21 minutes ago, revbfc said:

He talked specially about past jobs.

I think the fact that he mentioned the tunnel under the border and the location of it was a big red flag.  I think Fring probably also thought he was making unrealistic promises about being able to do it quickly and without blasting.    Mike probably like the German guy's old school, low tech, approach, as well.  

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I'm kind of with the recapper on this.  It doesn't really matter to me how the fantastic lab was built.  We see one more instance of the meticulous planning of Mike, the retired beat cop with a propensity for research or sniffing out illicit connections. That's fine as far as it goes and I'm glad we didn't see him ask the vet.  I would have rather seen the fallout from his outburst at the support group last week.  There's room for exploration of both things but with such short seasons with few episodes, I would rather see some blanks filled in about his inner life than about the construction of a lab.

I wonder if Gus will be fine with a simple non-disclosure agreement, or if they just disappear.

If done well, the construction of the lab provides a path to reveal things about Mike's inner life.

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, Bannon said:

We are thinking alike, obviously. The part of Albuquerque where this is located is industrial, so noise wouldn't necessarily be a problem. Moving that much soil and rock, however, without attracting notice, will take ingenuity.

That doesn't happen much. :)

Will they put a few handfuls of dirt in their pockets each day, like Andy Dufresne? :)  Maybe they will ship the dirt out in laundry trucks.  

5 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I'm kind of with the recapper on this.  It doesn't really matter to me how the fantastic lab was built.  We see one more instance of the meticulous planning of Mike, the retired beat cop with a propensity for research or sniffing out illicit connections. That's fine as far as it goes and I'm glad we didn't see him ask the vet.  I would have rather seen the fallout from his outburst at the support group last week.  There's room for exploration of both things but with such short seasons with few episodes, I would rather see some blanks filled in about his inner life than about the construction of a lab.

Spoiler

Tune in next week.  The sneak preview shows Mike going to Stacey's house to apologize for the manner in which he outed the charlatan, though he stands behind his words.  Stacey seems a bit standoffish and comes outside and closes the door to talk (like you would with a cop you don't want looking around your house) rather than inviting him in.

[maystone]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, Howard did serve as a reinforcement to Jimmy's preconceived notion that a shrink would be a waste of time (not to mention a security risk), but, also, this was in the early 00s, right? Shrinks were still not very effective then. It wasn't really until HMO plans for employees began to include mental health coverage and demand to see results in a limited number of visits that structured programs like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Mindfulness began to replace freeform "talk" sessions that were often not particularly helpful and were frequently just a prerequisite to see a psychiatrist for medications that often had more unwanted side effects than any positive effects.

I want to do a little cheerleading for talk therapy. I was in talk therapy for two years (1980-1981); I started at a time of deep crisis in my life. Over the course of the two years talking out loud to a trained therapist rather than continuing the fruitless, harmful inner dialogue I had been performing for most of my life, it turned everything around for me and gave me tools and a new perspective that I use to this day. Also, no medications were involved. BCT and Mindfulness have their place, but some situations and some personalities are much better served by talk therapy. As to Howard, well, it actually could have been helping him, as he said. It's a tough process coming to terms with yourself.

Kim seemed to hit a crisis of her own when she saw her future laid out in front of her in the shape of all of those dioramas of the planned MV expansion. I think it was a bit of a case of the dog catching the car: She worked her ass off to catch this client; she proved to everyone including herself just how smart and determined she was, but she got a lot more than she started out chasing. Watching her looking around that room and especially spying the little plastic figurines frozen in place - I swear I could see her imagining the bars of a cell clanging around her and holding her captive. Yeah, there's some self-sabotage going on, and yes, she committed to help her friend's business, but I don't remember this ever being offered as some sort of lifetime indenture to Mesa Verde. A career bounded by work that could probably best be described as stultifying. I don't blame Kim at all. I know someone has to get hurt by the end of this arc, and it'll probably be Kim, but I really get why the fast-paced, quick-on-your-feet, challenging work of a public defender would be so attractive to her. And she's so damn good at it!

I loved the fast-cut scene of Jimmy dealing out of the trunk of his car. BCS excels at that kind of imagery; I immediately flashed back to the episode where Jimmy was trying to get fired from HHM and that rapid montage of him picking out and wearing loud, annoying suit and shirt combos. One of my favorite scenes in all of TV.

I didn't clue into Mike hiring a contractor to build the secret lab until the German engineer was doing his thing. (I mean seriously, who wouldn't go with German engineering?) I hope we get to see more of him and the excavation.

[Bryce Lynch]

The Insider Podcast is now available. 

https://audioboom.com/posts/6994956-405-better-call-saul-insider

[Bannon]

8 minutes ago, maystone said:

I want to do a little cheerleading for talk therapy. I was in talk therapy for two years (1980-1981); I started at a time of deep crisis in my life. Over the course of the two years talking out loud to a trained therapist rather than continuing the fruitless, harmful inner dialogue I had been performing for most of my life, it turned everything around for me and gave me tools and a new perspective that I use to this day. Also, no medications were involved. BCT and Mindfulness have their place, but some situations and some personalities are much better served by talk therapy. As to Howard, well, it actually could have been helping him, as he said. It's a tough process coming to terms with yourself.

Kim seemed to hit a crisis of her own when she saw her future laid out in front of her in the shape of all of those dioramas of the planned MV expansion. I think it was a bit of a case of the dog catching the car: She worked her ass off to catch this client; she proved to everyone including herself just how smart and determined she was, but she got a lot more than she started out chasing. Watching her looking around that room and especially spying the little plastic figurines frozen in place - I swear I could see her imagining the bars of a cell clanging around her and holding her captive. Yeah, there's some self-sabotage going on, and yes, she committed to help her friend's business, but I don't remember this ever being offered as some sort of lifetime indenture to Mesa Verde. A career bounded by work that could probably best be described as stultifying. I don't blame Kim at all. I know someone has to get hurt by the end of this arc, and it'll probably be Kim, but I really get why the fast-paced, quick-on-your-feet, challenging work of a public defender would be so attractive to her. And she's so damn good at it!

I loved the fast-cut scene of Jimmy dealing out of the trunk of his car. BCS excels at that kind of imagery; I immediately flashed back to the episode where Jimmy was trying to get fired from HHM and that rapid montage of him picking out and wearing loud, annoying suit and shirt combos. One of my favorite scenes in all of TV.

I didn't clue into Mike hiring a contractor to build the secret lab until the German engineer was doing his thing. (I mean seriously, who wouldn't go with German engineering?) I hope we get to see more of him and the excavation.

I don't "blame" Kim for not wanting to devote her professional life to Mesa Verde's expansion. I was just a bit surprised that she engaged in self sabotage, as opposed to frankly admitting to herself that this not going to satisfy her, and then making forthright moves to where she wants to go. Her path to a productive career in criminal defense will be better if she winds down Mesa Verde in a professional manner, as opposed to the passive-aggressive stuff we saw. This is what people often do, however, and it is to the writer's credit that they acknowledge it.

In reality, few lawyers last as public defenders very long, because the workload is enormous,  the resources wholly inadequate, the clientele is frequently exceedingly unpleasant, and the success rate is pretty low. Almost everybody finds it to be too crappy a job to stay in, or ends up being a clock puncher who just does the bare minimum.

[ShadowFacts]

36 minutes ago, maystone said:

I want to do a little cheerleading for talk therapy. I was in talk therapy for two years (1980-1981); I started at a time of deep crisis in my life. Over the course of the two years talking out loud to a trained therapist rather than continuing the fruitless, harmful inner dialogue I had been performing for most of my life, it turned everything around for me and gave me tools and a new perspective that I use to this day. Also, no medications were involved. BCT and Mindfulness have their place, but some situations and some personalities are much better served by talk therapy. As to Howard, well, it actually could have been helping him, as he said. It's a tough process coming to terms with yourself.

It can only have been a few weeks or so since Chuck died; Howard will need a lot longer than that to come to any peace about it.  I think it's a good start that he has recognized his trauma and wants to do something about it.  There's no insta-cure for what he's experiencing.  He's wise to see what's out there that might help.  He's facing his stuff head-on, unlike Jimbo. 

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

It can only have been a few weeks or so since Chuck died; Howard will need a lot longer than that to come to any peace about it.  I think it's a good start that he has recognized his trauma and wants to do something about it.  There's no insta-cure for what he's experiencing.  He's wise to see what's out there that might help.  He's facing his stuff head-on, unlike Jimbo. 

It'll be really interesting if Howard comes out the other end as a more self-aware, more productive, person, as opposed to where we know Jaul is heading.

[DangerousMinds]

9 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I don't agree public defenders on the whole harm society, at least I don't think it's easy to quantify.  In this case the kid had an attitude that said he wasn't going to listen to her advice, but she was right in telling him that if he doesn't, he'll be with criminals 24/7 and it's good she's trying to divert him from becoming a real 'scumbag' like Nacho (who lots of viewers like to pull for).  As for Denise, it's not predetermined that she's doomed to not turn her life around.  She looked like she could be amenable to drug treatment or other intervention, more so than the first client.  The interesting thing to me is that this kind of work, while it is currently firing up Kim, has the potential to be as soul-sucking as the regulatory humdrum she is fleeing from. 

Also, it seemed as if Denise was charged with a relatively minor drug conviction (less than 2 ounces of something) and IMO that certainly doesn’t merit jail time. So Kim was doing her a great service.

[MisterBluxom]

9 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I think Jimmy deep down knows what is eating Howard.   I just don't think Jimmy can understand why Chuck's death would bother Howard at all.  Chuck's death hasn't affected Jimmy, at least not yet.

Jimmy also saw that  even though Howard was seeing a "shrink", it didn't look like it was helping Howard at all.  That is probably why Jimmy had torn up the psychiatrist's name and number and flushed it.

I will go out on a limb here and make a guess.

From what we've seen of Howard so far, he is a real shit. Isn't he? So I don't think he is broken up about Chuck's death. I think maybe he is worried because:

1) Maybe he got into a fight with Chuck and he is responsible for starting the fire or killing Cuck in some other way and he's terrified he will be found out.

2) Maybe he knows that he's not really much of a lawyer and without Chuck's help, he will eventually be exposed as a shit lawyer?

3) Whatever is bothering Howard, I would guess it's got something to do with him being an inferior human and inferior lawyer and he knows it and is terrified he will be exposed somehow.

I can't help but think that he has done something underhanded and cowardly and maybe it will become exposed during this season and result in Howard's demise.

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Also, it seemed as if Denise was charged with a relatively minor drug conviction (less than 2 ounces of something) and IMO that certainly doesn’t merit jail time. So Kim was doing her a great service.

While she seemed like a better candidate for leniency than David, when it comes to drugs, ounces can be a lot.  I believe on BB, Walt and Jesse's dealers were selling a teenth (16th of an ounce) for $175, so an ounce would be $2,800.   It looks like possession of any amount of meth in NM is a 4th degree felony, and the penalties are more severe for intent to distribute.   

[Bryce Lynch]

20 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I will go out on a limb here and make a guess.

From what we've seen of Howard so far, he is a real shit. Isn't he? So I don't think he is broken up about Chuck's death. I think maybe he is worried because:

1) Maybe he got into a fight with Chuck and he is responsible for starting the fire or killing Cuck in some other way and he's terrified he will be found out.

2) Maybe he knows that he's not really much of a lawyer and without Chuck's help, he will eventually be exposed as a shit lawyer?

3) Whatever is bothering Howard, I would guess it's got something to do with him being an inferior human and inferior lawyer and he knows it and is terrified he will be exposed somehow.

I can't help but think that he has done something underhanded and cowardly and maybe it will become exposed during this season and result in Howard's demise.

What has Howard done to be labeled a "real shit"?  I think a lot of that feeling, early on, was based upon the fact that Jimmy saw him as the heavy, who wouldn't allow Chuck to hire Jimmy as a lawyer and HHM and who didn't want him to use the McGill name, when he was actually taking the rap for Chuck.   

I think that perception clouded our perspective a Howard's actions.   

Howard, on Kim's urging, pushed for D&M to hire Jimmy (a bad decision).  He also forgave Kim her law school debts when she left the firm, and wished her well.  

The things he probably gets the most heat for is sending Kim to doc review, but when you consider that she pushed him hard to recommend Jimmy to D&M and then allowed Howard to believe that she knew about Jimmy's rogue ad, but did not inform him, I think that made sense.  He had good reason not to trust her judgment or her loyalty to the firm at that time.  

Howard was caught in the middle of the silly, vicious feud between the McGill brothers.  He didn't  always handle this perfectly, but he tried to diffuse the conflict more than once, by urging Chuck to tone it down.  

Howard did force Chuck out of the firm because of his unstable behavior and the firm's malpractice insurance rates going through the roof, due to Jimmy ratting out Chuck to the insurance company.  Howard feels guilty about this and believes he is partly responsible for Chuck's suicide.  We saw Chuck start the fire and  kill himself onscreen, so Howard was clearly not directly responsible for causing the fire.  

Edited September 4, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[SnarkyTart]

5 hours ago, Bannon said:

I also want to caution against this forum getting too far astray into political debate.

So much this.

[PeterPirate]

Just now, MissBluxom said:

I will go out on a limb here and make a guess.

From what we've seen of Howard so far, he is a real shit. Isn't he? So I don't think he is broken up about Chuck's death. I think maybe he is worried because:

1) Maybe he got into a fight with Chuck and he is responsible for starting the fire or killing Cuck in some other way and he's terrified he will be found out.

2) Maybe he knows that he's not really much of a lawyer and without Chuck's help, he will eventually be exposed as a shit lawyer?

3) Whatever is bothering Howard, I would guess it's got something to do with him being an inferior human and inferior lawyer and he knows it and is terrified he will be exposed somehow.

I can't help but think that he has done something underhanded and cowardly and maybe it will become exposed during this season and result in Howard's demise.

Mileage varies, of course.  The way I look at it, Howard is a good guy who found himself in a situation where a someone senior to him threatened to bring down the whole firm, and he took on a lot of personal debt in order to try to save things.  Then that senior partner went and killed himself.  

Admittedly, I'm a Howard fan.  Have been since he told Kim about Chuck's betrayal of Jimmy over Sandpiper.  I never saw Howard encourage or abet Chuck in his struggles with Jimmy.  Maybe he isn't the best lawyer, but I can see how an honest person would be wracked with guilt pangs even when he did the best thing possible.   

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, maystone said:

I want to do a little cheerleading for talk therapy. I was in talk therapy for two years (1980-1981); I started at a time of deep crisis in my life. Over the course of the two years talking out loud to a trained therapist rather than continuing the fruitless, harmful inner dialogue I had been performing for most of my life, it turned everything around for me and gave me tools and a new perspective that I use to this day. Also, no medications were involved. BCT and Mindfulness have their place, but some situations and some personalities are much better served by talk therapy. As to Howard, well, it actually could have been helping him, as he said. It's a tough process coming to terms with yourself.

Kim seemed to hit a crisis of her own when she saw her future laid out in front of her in the shape of all of those dioramas of the planned MV expansion. I think it was a bit of a case of the dog catching the car: She worked her ass off to catch this client; she proved to everyone including herself just how smart and determined she was, but she got a lot more than she started out chasing. Watching her looking around that room and especially spying the little plastic figurines frozen in place - I swear I could see her imagining the bars of a cell clanging around her and holding her captive. Yeah, there's some self-sabotage going on, and yes, she committed to help her friend's business, but I don't remember this ever being offered as some sort of lifetime indenture to Mesa Verde. A career bounded by work that could probably best be described as stultifying. I don't blame Kim at all. I know someone has to get hurt by the end of this arc, and it'll probably be Kim, but I really get why the fast-paced, quick-on-your-feet, challenging work of a public defender would be so attractive to her. And she's so damn good at it!

I loved the fast-cut scene of Jimmy dealing out of the trunk of his car. BCS excels at that kind of imagery; I immediately flashed back to the episode where Jimmy was trying to get fired from HHM and that rapid montage of him picking out and wearing loud, annoying suit and shirt combos. One of my favorite scenes in all of TV.

I didn't clue into Mike hiring a contractor to build the secret lab until the German engineer was doing his thing. (I mean seriously, who wouldn't go with German engineering?) I hope we get to see more of him and the excavation.

When you get caught up practicing law and it does well for you, but, it drives you crazy....I've heard it referred to as "golden handcuffs."  Will Kim break free? 

[Bannon]

16 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Mileage varies, of course.  The way I look at it, Howard is a good guy who found himself in a situation where a someone senior to him threatened to bring down the whole firm, and he took on a lot of personal debt in order to try to save things.  Then that senior partner went and killed himself.  

Admittedly, I'm a Howard fan.  Have been since he told Kim about Chuck's betrayal of Jimmy over Sandpiper.  I never saw Howard encourage or abet Chuck in his struggles with Jimmy.  Maybe he isn't the best lawyer, but I can see how an honest person would be wracked with guilt pangs even when he did the best thing possible.   

To me, Howard is a guy who is just massively insecure about his status, due to a not unreasonable sense that it is not well earned, and more due to nepotism. This insecurity is announced in some really unfortunate ways  and ironically impedes his competence as a lawyer, business owner, and friend, but I've never gotten the feeling that he is malicious in any way. He's just kind of a sad figure, and doubly so now. I'm curious about his fate, which is a testament to the writing and acting.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Bannon

[heisenberg]

16 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

It'd be cool if the lawyer Francesca calls on November 12 is Kim. 

Or Howard?

Kim looks like she's going downhill while Howard is already at the bottom,  I am very curious about what's next. 

So much things can happen we never know.

 

And...  Francesca knows Kim, so why would Jimmy say "Call this lawyer"?...  I am thinking more and more about Howard.

Edited September 4, 2018 by heisenberg

[Trees]

When I saw Francesca, I first thought it was Kim in disguise - dyed hair and a weight gain.  I worry about what's going to happen to Kim, since she was not a Breaking Bad character. I think they will kill her off at some point. 

I'm so glad to see her hair pulled back with a nice clip, instead of that silly, little-girl ponytail.  But how distressing to see that she is self-sabotaging!

Re: Howard, I think we're going to find out something extremely shocking... perhaps a criminal activity that results in him seeking help from Jimmy and his underground connections.

[peggy06]

This is my favorite episode of the season, because it was mostly about Jimmy. And secondly about Kim. They are currently the most interesting characters to me.

I never once thought about Nacho. I wouldn't have missed Fring if he hadn't been there. It's moderately interesting to me to see the care that's being taken with the construction of the lab, but I don't need to see any more. We know the lab was built; we've seen it. I definitely don't need to see what gory end befalls the workers and architects of the final product. I'll be disappointed if they spend much more time on that storyline. Give Mike something else to do.

Back to what I liked about the episode: Jimmy being old Jimmy, wheels spinning, energetic, alive. The phone montage was great. If only he had left while the going was good. I was nonplussed when he started wiping out his new slogan, but maybe he doesn't want any of those customers coming back at him now? Or he just decided he can't handle it.

I really can't figure what direction Kim is going to go. When she told Denise it wouldn't happen again, she seemed sincere. 

So sad to hear Jimmy's pep talk to self at the end. It puts Saul in a whole new light.

[Irlandesa]

21 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I think Jimmy knows exactly what is eating Howard, and he's reveling in it.

We had scenes of Jimmy solo and it didn't really seem like he was enjoying Howard's torment.  Jimmy's statement in the premiere episode that this would be Howard's burden came off as callous but I think, after seeing how disconnected he is about Chuck's death, I think it was his "you do you."  In other words, I don't think he really harbors ill will towards Howard but nor does he empathize.  So when he asked what was bothering Howard, I think he genuinely had no clue.

I don't think that Howard would be the lawyer Francesca would contact.  It doesn't appear as if he's a criminal lawyer.

10 hours ago, wendyg said:

But she doesn't quit; she's clearly decided he's worth putting up with for some reason. Either she likes the person but not the job or it's going to turn out that her association with him makes her unemployable elsewhere.

Breaking Bad took place around 2008 during which there was a recession.  She might not have quit because it would have been difficult to find a job elsewhere.

[Clanstarling]

22 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I think Jimmy knows exactly what is eating Howard, and he's reveling in it. 

I did not think about him charging more for the phones than he paid for them, but now that you've mentioned it I think it's quite likely.  I did feel that at some point he was going to get robbed, because it was obvious that these were all strictly cash transactions.

I didn't get the sense that Jimmy was reveling in it at all.

21 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And now I'm recalling my ex husband frequently saying "mox nix," from the German for "it doesn't matter" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mox_nix ).

"machts nichts" in German. Every GI who'd ever had a tour in Germany learned that phrase right off, and carried it with them back home.

19 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I disagree that Kim had to have been a Denise in her own youth. I definitely was not, but I certainly care more about the Denises of the world than any big bank.

If it had been only Denise, I'd agree with you. But there've been hints all along that Kim's past wasn't sweetness and light.

12 hours ago, Tighthead said:

As for the suggestion above about why was a simple fix a big deal, they mentioned that the paralegal couldn’t locate the files. That seemed like a bit of a stretch but information tech was different then. 

Not that different. I've worked in information tech for the last twenty years, and there's never been a time it was particularly difficult to find files - IF there was a reasonable file structure set up. And I'm pretty sure lawyers would be trained to set up logical file structures and decent naming conventions. So it seemed pretty odd that the paralegal couldn't locate the files.
 

6 hours ago, maystone said:

Kim seemed to hit a crisis of her own when she saw her future laid out in front of her in the shape of all of those dioramas of the planned MV expansion. I think it was a bit of a case of the dog catching the car: She worked her ass off to catch this client; she proved to everyone including herself just how smart and determined she was, but she got a lot more than she started out chasing. Watching her looking around that room and especially spying the little plastic figurines frozen in place - I swear I could see her imagining the bars of a cell clanging around her and holding her captive. Yeah, there's some self-sabotage going on, and yes, she committed to help her friend's business, but I don't remember this ever being offered as some sort of lifetime indenture to Mesa Verde. A career bounded by work that could probably best be described as stultifying. I don't blame Kim at all. I know someone has to get hurt by the end of this arc, and it'll probably be Kim, but I really get why the fast-paced, quick-on-your-feet, challenging work of a public defender would be so attractive to her. And she's so damn good at it!

I agree completely.

6 hours ago, Bannon said:

I don't "blame" Kim for not wanting to devote her professional life to Mesa Verde's expansion. I was just a bit surprised that she engaged in self sabotage, as opposed to frankly admitting to herself that this not going to satisfy her, and then making forthright moves to where she wants to go. Her path to a productive career in criminal defense will be better if she winds down Mesa Verde in a professional manner, as opposed to the passive-aggressive stuff we saw. This is what people often do, however, and it is to the writer's credit that they acknowledge it.

From my experience - self-sabotage is not necessarily a conscious choice. Sometimes it's being unwilling, or unable, to face a truth you don't want to acknowledge because it will blow up your entire world.

[Ellaria]

6 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think the fact that he mentioned the tunnel under the border and the location of it was a big red flag.  I think Fring probably also thought he was making unrealistic promises about being able to do it quickly and without blasting.    Mike probably like the German guy's old school, low tech, approach, as well.  

My thoughts as well. He mentioned another job. He was overly confident and a little slick. He made promises. The second guy was honest and cautious. Even his motion sickness gave him an air of authenticity. I loved the way that Gus seemed to appear out of nowhere.

6 hours ago, Bannon said:

I don't "blame" Kim for not wanting to devote her professional life to Mesa Verde's expansion. I was just a bit surprised that she engaged in self sabotage, as opposed to frankly admitting to herself that this not going to satisfy her, and then making forthright moves to where she wants to go. Her path to a productive career in criminal defense will be better if she winds down Mesa Verde in a professional manner, as opposed to the passive-aggressive stuff we saw. This is what people often do, however, and it is to the writer's credit that they acknowledge it.

I don’t blame Kim, either but I’m not surprised. She knew full well what she was doing. Paige and Mesa Verde solved the problem without her and I think that will inform her next step. Kim will not self-destruct in the long term. She is testing the waters right now. When the time is step to walk away from MV, I believe that she will do it professionally and with a plan.

40 minutes ago, peggy06 said:

This is my favorite episode of the season, because it was mostly about Jimmy. And secondly about Kim. They are currently the most interesting characters to me...

...So sad to hear Jimmy's pep talk to self at the end. It puts Saul in a whole new light.

Same with me. I am much more invested in Jimmy and Kim than Mike and the drug cartel. (However, I do enjoy when Gus shows up because something interesting always happens.)

I think that Jimmy/Saul may prove to be the most intriguing character in the BCS/BB universe. The internal push-pull between honest, good guy and wise-cracking opportunist is fascinating. And Bob Odenkirk is such a skillful actor that I find myself rooting for Jimmy regardless.

One last comment about this show...it is so visually interesting. The vistas, the perspectives, the framing. Nearly every shot is unique. For example, Jimmy sitting alone on the couch watching TV. He looked small and insignificant which was precisely the intent. The repeated shots of puddles at The Dog House and the laundry. The overhead shots of Jimmy in his PPD’s office. Brilliant!

[peeayebee]

4 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

From what we've seen of Howard so far, he is a real shit. Isn't he? So I don't think he is broken up about Chuck's death.

I think he's sincerely broken up and, more importantly, blames himself. Seems like we've never seen him hiding his feelings or dissembling -- correct me if I'm wrong -- so I highly doubt that all this is an act. He broke down and cried when talking about believing Chuck committed suicide and that he thinks he pushed Chuck there. 

I suspect Howard will crash and burn. It's a contrast with what Jimmy is like. Howard blames himself, is breaking under his emotions, while Jimmy acts without emotion or much care for anyone else (except Kim). Jimmy survives, Howard (imo) won't.

[Bama]

Yeah, I don't think Howard is a shitty guy at all.  He was caught in an impossible situation with Chuck and Jimmy.  Chuck was his mentor and someone he greatly admired.  I think Howard also genuinely liked Jimmy and admired him too, but in a different way.  Chuck had the natural intellect and gift for the law that Howard wished he had and Jimmy had the charisma and hustle that Howard also badly wished he had.

In Howard's eyes, if you combine the McGill brothers' strengths you would have the best lawyer in the world.  And when Jimmy works his ass off to get that law degree, it seems natural to Howard to want to bring Jimmy into the fold.  Only to have his own brother cruelly shut it down.

Then Howard gallantly takes the blame for Chuck's decision and lets Jimmy - and Kim and probably everyone else at HHM - think he's the dick while Chuck gets to remain the above the fray good guy.

Now, he thinks Chuck committed suicide because Howard finally says enough after years of Howard being his figurative trash can.

So, now Howard's just a fucking mess.

And Jimmy sees the mess and thinks "If THAT is what therapy makes you become by facing your feelings, I want NO part of that!  I'll keep my feelings bottled up, please and thank you!"

As others have mentioned, the lawyer that Saul tells Francesca to call can't be Kim.  Francesca worked for Kim - doesn't make sense.  It's got to be Howard, especially with him telling her "Tell them Jimmy (not Saul) sent you."

And those poor contractors/excavators.  The opening shot of the guy they didn't use showed him at Denver International Airport.  That's a 6 1/2 drive to Albuquerque in the back of that van, with a hood on.  And actually, probably even longer as it seemed like they took back country roads.  I'd have been barfing up my toes.

And something tells me Kim is going to become a criminal lawyer along with Jimmy/Saul but she won't be as good at it or as able to compartmentalize it and ends up getting caught.  I see an orange jumpsuit in her future.

[MBayGal]

On 9/3/2018 at 8:07 PM, peeayebee said:

Oh, and seeing that car bouncing around made me think Tuco was inside. :D

Didn't Jesse at one time have a bouncing car?  That's who I thought of.

Edited September 5, 2018 by MBayGal
typo

[Lion18]

22 hours ago, ahmerali said:

I have a feeling that Jimmy is going to get his revenge on the punks. Maybe not the money, but his revenge.

Trying to figure out who the other lawyer might be or what the Francesca phone call is about. One thing I can say for sure is that the opening scene does not follow right after the scene where Jesse attacks Saul in BB....Saul and Francesca are wearing different clothes. So it's a different day.

Also according to the Breaking Bad timeline, Saul uses the Disappearer on March 15th, by the time Francesca makes that phone call in November, Walter White will already be dead....trying to find the significance of that date, and can't yet...I'm still speculating strongly that Kim will use the Disappearer first, maybe on November 12th of the coming year....

I have to ask - what is the disaperer ?  Is it from B.B. ?  Thanks 

[PeterPirate]

40 minutes ago, Bama said:

As others have mentioned, the lawyer that Saul tells Francesca to call can't be Kim.  Francesca worked for Kim - doesn't make sense.  It's got to be Howard, especially with him telling her "Tell them Jimmy (not Saul) sent you."

Of course Francesca won't call Kim Wexler when November 12 rolls around.  Kim Wexler disappeared, mysteriously, several years before.  It would put Francesca in legal jeopardy if she knowingly made a phone call to Kim Wexler, or even knew that Kim Wexler still exists.  

No, Francesca will make a phone call to "a lawyer", who will turn out to be a woman who sounds remarkably like Kim Wexler.  

That's my story and I'm sticking with it.  Until Monday.  

By the way, there's a scene in The Godfather where Tom will not accept a letter from Kay for Mike, because if he did so, it would be evidence that Tom knew of Mike's whereabouts.  So my opinion is on solid legal ground.

Edited September 5, 2018 by PeterPirate

[MBayGal]

19 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I can't believe you people knew so much about what was going on. I was pretty much bewildered at the whole episode.

I didn't even realize the two engineers were being interviewed to build the underground meth lab.

I thought it was some brand new project. I guess I better try to keep the time lines straight.

Thie is the first episode that I thought would make no sense to someone who hadn't watched Br Ba or remembered much of it.  I was an avid, and repeat, watcher, but DH gave up around Ep 3, when Jesse had to get rid of the dead guy's body.  So to him, the opening was meaningless until I explained it, and he had no idea what the two engineers were trying to do.  There are so many little callbacks for the Br Ba audience -- we all remember the Dog House, but it doesn't mess up the experience for those who don't -- and I would hate to see this become a show that can no longer stand on its own. 

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

 I think maybe he [Chuck] is worried because:
. . .

2) Maybe he knows that he's not really much of a lawyer and without Chuck's help, he will eventually be exposed as a shit lawyer

Although I agree with all of @Bryce Lynch's post in reply to this^^ post, @MissBluxom may have hit the nail of Howard's anxiety squarely on the head here. Chuck may be feeling as naked at HHM without Chuck as the legendary Emperor without any clothes once a little boy pointed it out.

 

3 hours ago, peggy06 said:

what I liked about the episode: Jimmy being old Jimmy, wheels spinning, energetic, alive. The phone montage was great. If only he had left while the going was good. I was nonplussed when he started wiping out his new slogan, but maybe he doesn't want any of those customers coming back at him now? Or he just decided he can't handle it.

Or, after getting mugged while doing his shtick, Kim excuses it with Jimmy "just being in the wrong place at the wrong time," which he kind of has to agree with. But Jimmy washing off his scheme advertising is ultimately not much different than David letting Kim put a tie on him or Denise changing clothes. 

[Miles]

On 4.9.2018 at 5:29 AM, MrWhyt said:

On 4.9.2018 at 5:12 AM, Blakeston said:

In addition to the first candidate being overly optimistic, it couldn't have helped his case that he blabbed details about a different criminal project. Gus is nothing if not discreet.

I think this was the #1 reason why he was rejected.

I don't think that had much to do with it. The guy didn't reveal any details. Yes "down town El Paso" might have been a bit more specific than he needed to be, but not that much.

The main reason seemed to have been that he didn't know what he was talking about. He didn't seem to account for the weight of the building above and the machinery in it, didn't think he needed to blast, despite the fact that that deep down they'd certainly hit rock, didn't account for the secrecy and proximity to a city, he gave an unrealistic timeframe, etc.

That he mentioned a tunnel into mexico was just the last straw. That is a completely different beast. It doesn't have to be big, thus not much support is needed, one end can be out in the middle of nowhere, thus no need for secrecy, etc.

 

On 4.9.2018 at 6:27 AM, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

If she wants to play hero to the little people, that is fine. But her old friend gave her the benefit of the doubt and trusted her with this huge account when she needed a morale boost. They are not the bad guys just because she decided to grow a conscious or whatever it is that is going on with her 

It's not about her growing a concious, it's about her being overwhelmed. She is still traumatised from the car accident and she is worried that if she works as hard again, she won't survive it. You saw how she reacted after she was shown the expansion plans for the bank and how immediatly after she gave all the work to her paralegal.

Her taking small cases is her doing something she is good at, that isn't too much and that she can control.

Of course she should tell Mesa Verde that it is too much for her and aid in the transition to a different firm. But she doesn't seem to be able to admit that it's too much for her yet.

 

23 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And now I'm recalling my ex husband frequently saying "mox nix," from the German for "it doesn't matter" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mox_nix ).

As a german that hurt to read. Please americans, if you want to use german words, just use german words. Don't do something like that!

Btw. it means "it doesn't matter" in a different context. For example if somebody were to step on your foot and say "Entschuldigung (sorry)" you might say "macht nichts (it doesn't matter)". It doesn't quite work in this context. A bit hard to explain, but basically if the "it doesn't matter" means "it's futile", "macht nichts" doesn't work. In that case you would probably use "es ist egal".

 

18 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Except what she does as a public defender actually harms society.  That scumbag kid she got off with 4 months probabation is almost certainly going to hurt a lot of people and it is unlikely that Denise will turn her life around.  

That's not how that works. That's not how any of this works. Views like this is why you have the highest incarceration rate on the planet, in the US.

[Irlandesa]

32 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Although I agree with all of @Bryce Lynch's post in reply to this^^ post, @MissBluxom may have hit the nail of Howard's anxiety squarely on the head here. Chuck may be feeling as naked at HHM without Chuck as the legendary Emperor without any clothes once a little boy pointed it out.

Possibly.  But I seem to recall a partner meeting at HHM and there were a lot of partners in that meeting.  So unless they change the game, I don't think he's that vulnerable as he's still just one lawyer with lots of talent at his disposal.  The thing is, I don't think we know much about Howard as a lawyer. 

[meira.hand]

6 hours ago, Lion18 said:

I have to ask - what is the disappearer?  Is it from B.B. ?  Thanks 

Yes. Its someone Saul had set up to allow a fast getaway in case of an emergency, including change of identity. He had it set up for several of the BB characters and of course himself. A criminal version of witness protection :).

[Lion18]

10 minutes ago, meira.hand said:

Yes. Its someone Saul had set up to allow a fast getaway in case of an emergency, including change of identity. He had it set up for several of the BB characters and of course himself. A criminal version of witness protection :).

Thank you. I watched B.B. two years ago and didn’t remember. 

[MisterBluxom]

7 hours ago, Bama said:

<snip>

And something tells me Kim is going to become a criminal lawyer along with Jimmy/Saul but she won't be as good at it or as able to compartmentalize it and ends up getting caught.  I see an orange jumpsuit in her future.

 

OMG! You may be right. But I sure hope not.  I LOVE Kim and she is my main rooting interest in this show.  I want to see her wind up getting everything she wants and living happily ever after.

I know this is kind of improbable.  But I think Kim must really love Jimmy and I want this show to end with her and Jimmy getting married and living happily ever after together.

[ShadowFacts]

9 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Not that different. I've worked in information tech for the last twenty years, and there's never been a time it was particularly difficult to find files - IF there was a reasonable file structure set up. And I'm pretty sure lawyers would be trained to set up logical file structures and decent naming conventions. So it seemed pretty odd that the paralegal couldn't locate the files.

I really don't know how Kim and her paralegal work, but there are boxes and boxes and boxes of stuff, files I presume, in Kim's apartment (which would make me want to get out of there as often as possible) so maybe the thing that couldn't be found was in one of them.  Kim isn't on a computer much, she's mostly looking through papers. 

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Possibly.  But I seem to recall a partner meeting at HHM and there were a lot of partners in that meeting.  So unless they change the game, I don't think he's that vulnerable as he's still just one lawyer with lots of talent at his disposal.  The thing is, I don't think we know much about Howard as a lawyer. 

Yes, we know little about him as a lawyer or anything else.  I do remember at the regulatory meeting about Mesa Verde with Chuck, he at least acted confident, asking Chuck if he was sure he didn't need him to handle it, or something like that.  What has me puzzled is him telling Jimmy in the bathroom that he already said too much, when he barely said anything.  Could he be in a financial bind, after having to borrow money to pay Chuck?  I think something is going on there that we just don't know yet.  Or, we're just seeing a contrast between Jimmy who is burying everything and Howard who has it all right at the surface. 

[qtpye]

33 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

 

OMG! You may be right. But I sure hope not.  I LOVE Kim and she is my main rooting interest in this show.  I want to see her wind up getting everything she wants and living happily ever after.

I know this is kind of improbable.  But I think Kim must really love Jimmy and I want this show to end with her and Jimmy getting married and living happily ever after together.

 

I kind hope she is happy as well but this will probably entail her getting away from Jimmy/Saul. I can imagine that in the last season we check in on Kim and she has a small but very solid practice. She and Jimmy are long broken up and she only thinks of him when she sees the Saul ads. Kim is heartbroken that Jimmy has let Chuck's disdain turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy but she realizes that she can not "save" Jimmy so she focuses that energy on her clients. When the final events of BrBa come down she is worried and runs to Saul only to find out he has already disappeared. 

Quote

 

I really don't know how Kim and her paralegal work, but there are boxes and boxes and boxes of stuff, files I presume, in Kim's apartment (which would make me want to get out of there as often as possible) so maybe the thing that couldn't be found was in one of them.  Kim isn't on a computer much, she's mostly looking through papers. 

Yes, we know little about him as a lawyer or anything else.  I do remember at the regulatory meeting about Mesa Verde with Chuck, he at least acted confident, asking Chuck if he was sure he didn't need him to handle it, or something like that.  What has me puzzled is him telling Jimmy in the bathroom that he already said too much, when he barely said anything.  Could he be in a financial bind, after having to borrow money to pay Chuck?  I think something is going on there that we just don't know yet.  Or, we're just seeing a contrast between Jimmy who is burying everything and Howard who has it all right at the surface. 

 

I always imagined that Howard was a very competent rainmaker. His polish and slightly swarmy charm probably was very good at getting clients in the door. He probably brought them in and let other attornies handle the more grueling legal aspects.

Edited September 5, 2018 by qtpye

[Ellaria]

On 9/4/2018 at 4:51 AM, MissBluxom said:

I can't believe you people knew so much about what was going on. I was pretty much bewildered at the whole episode.

I didn't even realize the two engineers were being interviewed to build the underground meth lab.

I thought it was some brand new project. I guess I better try to keep the time lines straight.

 

8 hours ago, MBayGal said:

Thie is the first episode that I thought would make no sense to someone who hadn't watched Br Ba or remembered much of it.  I was an avid, and repeat, watcher, but DH gave up around Ep 3, when Jesse had to get rid of the dead guy's body.  So to him, the opening was meaningless until I explained it, and he had no idea what the two engineers were trying to do.  There are so many little callbacks for the Br Ba audience -- we all remember the Dog House, but it doesn't mess up the experience for those who don't -- and I would hate to see this become a show that can no longer stand on its own. 

I don't think that this will ever become a show that cannot stand on its own. And I don't think that its necessary to keep the timelines straight. Gilligan is far too savvy to fall into that trap.

Mike's mission with the two men clearly looked mysterious (the roadside pickup, the hood, the van). Then, Gus walks out of the shadows. That's really all that you need to know about what the mission *may* involve.

Saul in the "cold open" was clearly someone getting ready to run. That's the beginning of the transformation into Gene. I'm sure that we will be told/shown what's next in the life of Jimmy/Saul and I'm sure that it can stand on its own.

At this point in the show's life, its execution does not require that a viewer watch BB to truly understand it. I binged all of BB in about 4 weeks. I miss a ton of the "easter eggs" that are thrown into BCS and it hasn't diminished my understanding of it. I'm confident that Gilligan will get us where we need to go without requiring us to go back and watch episodes of BB.

 

23 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I still have no clue about November 12 at 3PM.  Maybe it is just a random time he set, figuring that by that time (about 8 months later) the heat would have died down and Francesca wouldn't be followed by law enforcement.  He might have wanted an update about what was going on in ABQ and what she had told the police and what they told her.  It is also possible he might have had a message for someone else, he wanted her to pass on.

My guess is that it isn't random...that November 12 at 3PM holds some significance in the life of Jimmy/Saul/Gene. By the end of BCS, I'm sure that we will know what it is. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[peggy06]

I agree with Ellaria Sand that it still isn't necessary to have watched Breaking Bad in order to enjoy/follow Better Call Saul. Even the cold open is clear that Jimmy is doing a bunk and something shady is involved. I don't think you have to know why, or get the vacuum cleaner reference, to pick up the gist. This isn't the first time BCS has jumped into the future without explanation, so if you got through the Gene scenes all right, this shouldn't be so much different. Maybe they should have used a light filter to indicate a change in the timeline?  

Once past that, it also isn't necessary to know about the laundry/lab to get that Mike is working on some super-secret and shady project for Gus. Which will eventually be revealed.

I think one problem is reading discussions where BrBa fans talk about old characters and tie-ins. I think that would definitely make me feel like I was missing things. But those things are not germane to understanding the overall story; they just enhance the story for old-timers. That's in part why I don't need there to be more of them. I don't need to see old characters, and I don't look for references. 

It does make things a bit difficult for the newbies, like there's an insider club talking about the show that they can't be a part of. But that's not the fault of the show. I guess you could say it's a fault of the internet, or maybe just human nature. :)

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

I really don't know how Kim and her paralegal work, but there are boxes and boxes and boxes of stuff, files I presume, in Kim's apartment (which would make me want to get out of there as often as possible) so maybe the thing that couldn't be found was in one of them.  Kim isn't on a computer much, she's mostly looking through papers.

I don't think it's the boxed files they couldn't find. The woman at MesaVerde specifically said they had to retype everything because they couldn't find the files. Which too me meant they had the paper files in front of them (or how would they know there's an error?). We may not see Kim on the computer much, but have seen her editing her legal files on a computer in previous seasons.

7 hours ago, Miles said:

As a german that hurt to read. Please americans, if you want to use german words, just use german words. Don't do something like that!

Btw. it means "it doesn't matter" in a different context. For example if somebody were to step on your foot and say "Entschuldigung (sorry)" you might say "macht nichts (it doesn't matter)". It doesn't quite work in this context. A bit hard to explain, but basically if the "it doesn't matter" means "it's futile", "macht nichts" doesn't work. In that case you would probably use "es ist egal".

Ah, memory lane. Danke.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Clanstarling

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, we know little about him as a lawyer or anything else.  I do remember at the regulatory meeting about Mesa Verde with Chuck, he at least acted confident, asking Chuck if he was sure he didn't need him to handle it, or something like that.  What has me puzzled is him telling Jimmy in the bathroom that he already said too much, when he barely said anything.  Could he be in a financial bind, after having to borrow money to pay Chuck?  I think something is going on there that we just don't know yet.  Or, we're just seeing a contrast between Jimmy who is burying everything and Howard who has it all right at the surface. 

This^^ makes me want to speculate that the reason Chuck looked so ragged in this episode is that he's fallen in with a loan shark after paying off Chuck. And now I'm picturing a Venn diagram of Howard's life overlapping with the criminal element of Jimmy's, which cannot end well for anyone.

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

What has me puzzled is him telling Jimmy in the bathroom that he already said too much, when he barely said anything.  Could he be in a financial bind, after having to borrow money to pay Chuck?  I think something is going on there that we just don't know yet.  Or, we're just seeing a contrast between Jimmy who is burying everything and Howard who has it all right at the surface. 

Kim recently yelled at Howard for telling Jimmy too much - that is, for sharing his suspicion that Chuck committed suicide. 

I think that's what Howard was referring to. He was saying that he had already done enough damage by unburdening himself on Jimmy, and he wasn't about to do it again.

[ShadowFacts]

50 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I don't think it's the boxed files they couldn't find. The woman at MesaVerde specifically said they had to retype everything because they couldn't find the files. Which too me meant they had the paper files in front of them (or how would they know there's an error?). We may not see Kim on the computer much, but have seen her editing her legal files on a computer in previous seasons.

You're probably right.  I think the idea being driven home was that Paige questioned Kim's dedication, rightly.  What I thought was egregious was Kim essentially hanging up on Paige.  That would have been the corker for me if I were her.  Who does that and thinks it will end up well?  She's deep-sixing herself.  (Now I'll stop with the antiquated lingo.)

3 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Kim recently yelled at Howard for telling Jimmy too much - that is, for sharing his suspicion that Chuck committed suicide. 

I think that's what Howard was referring to. He was saying that he had already done enough damage by unburdening himself on Jimmy, and he wasn't about to do it again.

Could be.  If so, I'm having a bit of a moment with Howard.  He is suffering and he cares about Jimmy's suffering.  Sniff.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, peggy06 said:

I agree with Ellaria Sand that it still isn't necessary to have watched Breaking Bad in order to enjoy/follow Better Call Saul. Even the cold open is clear that Jimmy is doing a bunk and something shady is involved. I don't think you have to know why, or get the vacuum cleaner reference, to pick up the gist. This isn't the first time BCS has jumped into the future without explanation, so if you got through the Gene scenes all right, this shouldn't be so much different. Maybe they should have used a light filter to indicate a change in the timeline?  

Once past that, it also isn't necessary to know about the laundry/lab to get that Mike is working on some super-secret and shady project for Gus. Which will eventually be revealed.

I think one problem is reading discussions where BrBa fans talk about old characters and tie-ins. I think that would definitely make me feel like I was missing things. But those things are not germane to understanding the overall story; they just enhance the story for old-timers. That's in part why I don't need there to be more of them. I don't need to see old characters, and I don't look for references. 

It does make things a bit difficult for the newbies, like there's an insider club talking about the show that they can't be a part of. But that's not the fault of the show. I guess you could say it's a fault of the internet, or maybe just human nature. :)

The show can certainly stand on its own, but it is very helpful to have watched BB.  For the most part, I think BCS explains what is going on well enough without knowing BB.  I think the flash forward to Saul is one example where non-BB viewers might not totally understand what is going on.  I also think BCS hasn't done a great job explaining why Fring hates Hector so much, while it is obvious to BB fans.   

The Easter eggs, BB characters showing up and references to future events are a LOT of fun for BB fans.  On the other hand, it might be fun to watch BCS cold, as Seasons 1 to X of  Breaking Bad and then watch BB as Seasons X+1 to X+5.   

Edited September 5, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[peeayebee]

9 hours ago, MBayGal said:

Thie is the first episode that I thought would make no sense to someone who hadn't watched Br Ba or remembered much of it.

 

2 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Mike's mission with the two men clearly looked mysterious (the roadside pickup, the hood, the van). Then, Gus walks out of the shadows. That's really all that you need to know about what the mission *may* involve.

 

Yes, that's basically what I was going to say. A non-BB watcher would definitely have to do a little more thinking than a BB watcher, who would immediately recognize the laundry and know a meth lab was going to be beneath it. As you said, the main thing here to know is that something shady is going on and they're going to build a room underneath that they can't let the authorities or anyone else know about.

 

14 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Kim recently yelled at Howard for telling Jimmy too much - that is, for sharing his suspicion that Chuck committed suicide. 

I think that's what Howard was referring to. He was saying that he had already done enough damage by unburdening himself on Jimmy, and he wasn't about to do it again.

I don't see it that way. Howard looked disgusted with Jimmy as he stopped himself from explaining himself. He didn't look like he was taking pity on Jimmy or trying to avoid hurting him more (according to Kim).

It also occurred to me that Howard's therapist probably gave him insight into Jimmy's reaction to Howard's confession, and that would explain why Howard stopped himself from spitting into the wind, so to speak.

Edited September 5, 2018 by peeayebee

[peeayebee]

5 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I also think BCS hasn't done a great job explaining why Fring hates Hector so much, while it is obvious to BB fans.   

I don't think that's necessary to know. It certainly adds to the characterization, but I think it's enuf to believe that Gus wants Hector out of the picture for business reasons. Of course a non-BB watcher might wonder why Gus would stop Hector from being killed by Mike and Nacho, but I wouldn't think that would impede someone's enjoyment. It's usual in TV shows and movies to leave things to be discovered.