A Star is Born (2018)

[scarynikki12]

Cooper can still get four nominations if the screenplay gets in.  That'd be: Best Actor, Best Director, Best Adapted Screenplay, and Best Picture.  No guarantee of a win in any of them, as there's the danger that the voters could each vote assuming he'd be a lock in one category and then he goes home without any hardware.  But it would still be an amazing accomplishment.  Same with Gaga, as she can easily get a Best Actress nomination and I think she's a lock for Best Song. 

I also think this was fantastic.  Some parts were supremely uncomfortable but that's a good thing because so much of what happens with regard to addiction is uncomfortable.  The theater I was in was packed and the girls next to me somehow managed to do a massive cringe hug without leaving their seats whenever an uncomfortable scene happened.  I got a kick out of them so it didn't ruin my enjoyment.

This is the first time I've seen Gaga act and I think she was wonderful.  Cooper was too and they played off one another really well. 

I never thought I'd say that Andrew Dice Clay was a good actor but he really was.  So were Sam Elliot and Dave Chappelle, but I knew they would be so no surprise there.  Gaga tells the story of how Cooper cast her to play Ally but I think it's obvious that he had a hand in casting the other roles as well.  Just the presence of Grunberg and Rifkin is enough to demonstrate that.  Between Cooper and JJ Abrams it looks like the Alias alums will never hurt for work. 

38 minutes ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

Really, really good movie.  It deserves the hype it's getting.  I totally believed their love story and how smitten he was with her.  And how cute was Jack around a bunch of Queens?

The one who had him sign her boobs cracked me up.  "Sing anything you want as long as you look at me."  Love.

[AimingforYoko]

14 hours ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

Don't know the actor who played her scumbag manager but I'll say he did a helluva job because he had me feeling all kinds of stabby.  

He was kind of a typical music industry smarmy Brit, but I don't think he did anything terribly underhanded. He was looking out for his client and he wasn't entirely wrong about Jackson. If Ally did take him on tour, another Grammy incident was bound to happen.

Edited October 7, 2018 by AimingforYoko
Grammy, not Emmy, ya idjit!

[Enigma X]

4 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

He was kind of a typical music industry smarmy Brit, but I don't think he did anything terribly underhanded. He was looking out for his client and he wasn't entirely wrong about Jackson. If Ally did take him on tour, another Emmy incident was bound to happen.

I felt as if Ally should have made that decision though. Her manager was cruel to a person who clearly was battling some demons.  The manager did not need to be that cruel. That was unnecessary. 

Edited October 7, 2018 by Enigma X
typo

[Spartan Girl]

When Ally was leaving the restaurant at the beginnings no of the movie, was that a Judy Garland song she was singing to herself?

[Silver Raven]

Does anybody know who played the drag queen who had her boobs signed?  She looked familiar.

[phalange]

I've never seen the originals, so I had no expectations going in. I absolutely loved it. Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper were fantastic and I really believed Ally and Jack's relationship. I agree with everyone who said that sometimes it felt almost awkward watching their fights because it felt so real, especially the way they would interrupt or talk over each other. It felt like I was watching a real conversation, not people acting.

I expected that Jack would end up in rehab, but I didn't think it would end with him actually dying. As soon as he gave that plate of food to the dog, I figured something was up. Charlie sitting in front of the closed garage door like he knew something was wrong broke me. Ally singing Jack's song at the end, with flashbacks to earlier in their relationship, was heartbreaking. She was back to her original hair color too, so I'm hoping it means she dumped the douchebag manager and went back to her original style. 

I hope both Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper get nominations for this. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Amazing:

Cooper
The fact that he chose no gratuitous vomit scenes or grotesque scenes like most addict movies choose to - Thank you Lord and thank you Cooper
The Songs

The rest:

I'm not blown away by Gaga's performance, but obviously the singing and performances were great.  It's just her acting... ehhhh next to Bradley's I'm not sure.
I'm a huge Chappelle fan, so the fact that his part was only 5 minutes long was ridiculous.  He was in 50% of the trailer!

It's a very long movie and over 2 hours, so be prepared.

[Luciano]

12 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Does anybody know who played the drag queen who had her boobs signed?  She looked familiar.

Willam, who was in the fourth season of RuPaul's Drag Race.

[nilyank]

Bradley Cooper was fantastic as Jack. He didn't have to say a word so that you could tell what emotion he was feeling. I have seen all versions of a Star is Born and as we we heading towards the final act, I was hoping that Jack would not kill himself, but knew that couldn't be.

For a rock star, Jack was a pretty sweet guy but had so many demons with addictions and his father. When he told his story about trying to kill himself when he was barely 13, I knew that he was doomed.

The songs were fantastic.

GaGa was phenomenal in her singing performances and her acting was good (no where near as good as Bradley).

It was a lovely love story with a tragic ending. Cried my eyes out.

Excellent film.

[Blergh]

Saw it and thought it was a definitely B+ in terms of plot and performances! Yes, I think it was a pleasant surprise to find out just how talented Mr. Cooper IS re singing. Also, his Jackson Maine was ultimately a rather noble character even if he was self-destructive and tragic! I mean, even when he was at his very worst, at NO point was it ever hinted that there was any infidelity on either of the Maines' parts which is a rather notable thing in that field and circumstance.

However; I would have liked to known more re that made Ally tick. First of all, even though we met her father Lorenzo (who   considered himself a Sinatra-contender but for Sinatra's own existence), we never hear their surname uttered or see it written- not even ONCE! Also, while Jackson's parents' tragic fates are detailed, there's absolutely no hint about what had happened to Ally's mother- not even a 'yer Ma'd be proud of ya!' throwaway line!  Yes, Ally seemed to want to be a musician from Day One but did she finish high school or attempt college or did she throw herself at shallow execs ASAP only to retreat to working in a restaurant and moonlighting in a drag bar to release her outlet?  Also, was she so starstruck by an 'insider' manager that she never considered that SHE was now being treated as less-than-human which she was willing to bust her knuckles for on Jackson's behalf when they first met?

 

Oh, I agree that the manager Rez was horrible to Jackson re kicking him when he'd barely returned from his nadir and really wish

Spoiler

there was a scene that Ally had told him off and threw him out of her life!

 

 Still, that first duet between Jackson and Ally was phenomenal and it reminded me of Cass Elliot's breaking out with 'IF I had WINGS!'  in 'Nora's Dove' she was in the Big 3. And the final song with both Ally and Jackson separately singing it was heartbreaking!

 And, Sam Elliot was great as someone who told what NEEDED to be said rather than what others wanted to hear (and it was great how even when the bond between Bobby and Jackson seemed almost completely frayed, it never broke).

[Silver Raven]

4 hours ago, Luciano said:

Willam, who was in the fourth season of RuPaul's Drag Race.

Thanks.  William Belli?

[Luckylyn]

I really enjoyed this.  

Regarding Ally’s mother,  I thought it was implied she was an alcoholic during that scene when she talks to her dad after Jack’s driver shows up to take her to his concert and she initially refused.  She said something like Jack’s a drunk and her father should know how that would work out.  I thought that meant  her mother had a drinking problem but I could be reading too much into that.  I was wondering what Ally’s dad meant when he siad maybe it’s his fault after Jack’s Grammy meltdown.  His fault because he encouraged the romance or his fault because maybe he enabled Ally’s mother’s drinking setting a poor example for Ally to follow.

Comparing A Star is Born

[Blergh]

Luckylyn,

I suppose it's possible that the alcoholic Ally and her father Lorenzo had had dealing with was Ally's [late?] mother but not necessarily so inasmuch as Lorenzo could have had interactions with alcoholics before or after he'd met Ally's mother -perhaps in his own extended family . Still, it's the closest possible 'sighting' the movie provides.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Wikipedia calls Ally's father a widower.

[raven]

I loved it.  It is over 2 hrs long but didn't feel it.

Bradley Cooper was phenomenal, with a tiny caveat that occasionally I couldn't understand his growly dialogue - Jack's scene with Bobby in the truck after coming home from rehab, when Bobby gets teary-eyed, I wasn't quite sure what Jack said to him.  I was happy they were back on good terms at least. 

It was obvious to me that for Jack, it was love at first sight with Ally.   Ally is more understandably cautious but I felt like cheering when she and her friend take off from work and go to the concert.  I loved the element of throwing caution to the wind and they were having so much fun!  Then when she comes on stage the first time to sing - I thought that was Gaga's best work in the movie (and she was excellent) - Ally is scared but wants to do it and when she finally does, I was thinking "this is what she has been waiting for her whole life, this is the part of her that's been dying to come out". 

I think Bradley Cooper had more emotions to convey then Lady Gaga, which is why I rate his performance higher.  However, they both deserve equal credit (if that's the right word) for having outstanding chemistry.  I really felt like I was peeking in at their lives when they were on screen together - their relationship felt so intimate, even if they were just talking.   There's a little scene after Ally surprises Jack with Charlie and he tells her that she's made the house a home; it was really perfect, the scene didn't need more dialogue.

When Jack was drunk and called her ugly - ugh, my heart broke for her.   The interesting thing is that when she forgives him, to me she is forgiving from a position of strength - the movie could have shown that she was just.so.besotted but it didn't come across that way to me.  She knows her vulnerabilities and she decides that she will forgive him, that she loves him. 

I loved the big, loud concert scenes.  I've been to a few like that, though it been a long time, so it brought back a lot of good memories. 

The supporting cast was all across the board very, very good, with Sam Elliott standing out for me.  I wouldn't have minded an extra scene or two with Bobby and Jack,  the actors worked so well together.  I also enjoyed Ally's banter with her dad and his friends.

I also liked that there was humor, that the movie felt true and lived in. 

I knew Jack would commit suicide but I was horrified that he would hang himself in the garage.  I know he took pills but wouldn't Ally have been the first to find him?  No way Jack would have wanted Ally to find him like that.    In my head, someone was sent to the house and they found him first. 

I started tearing up when Charlie lies down in front of the garage; when we see Charlie in the house later, lying in front of the door (reminiscent of earlier, when Ally visits Jack in rehab and she tells him that Charlie lies in front of the door waiting for him to come home) and didn't stop until after Ally's final number.  I changed my mind, that was Gaga's best work in the  movie.

[Silver Raven]

8 minutes ago, raven said:

Jack's scene with Bobby in the truck after coming home from rehab, when Bobby gets teary-eyed, I wasn't quite sure what Jack said to him.

He told Bobby that it wasn't his father he idolized, it was Bobby.

[raven]

1 minute ago, Silver Raven said:

He told Bobby that it wasn't his father he idolized, it was Bobby.

Thank you so much!  I knew it had to be something like that. 

[AimingforYoko]

38 minutes ago, raven said:

I wouldn't have minded an extra scene or two with Bobby and Jack

Wow, Bobby and Jack. That had to be on purpose.

[raven]

8 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Wow, Bobby and Jack. That had to be on purpose.

The character's name is Jackson actually.

Interesting article about Easter Eggs and homages in the movie; Charlie is Cooper's real-life dog and that's Cooper's real-life eye doctor in the movie as well and interesting tidbits about the drag scenes

Quote

Cooper also took Gaga up on her casting suggestions for drag-bar performers, including Willam Belli and D.J. “Shangela” Pierce. Belli told Bustle that Cooper entrusted them to improv their scenes, saying, “You guys know what goes on in a drag dressing room better than me, do your thing.’ He just let me go off and do a bunch of jokes.”

Cooper was so pleased with Belli and Pierce’s work—their scenes are hilarious and heartwarming—that he convinced them to return to set and film more than what was originally scripted. One such bonus scene features Jackson—while waiting for Gaga to change clothes—performing for Shangela as she counts out her money after the bar has closed.

 

22 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

When Ally was leaving the restaurant at the beginnings no of the movie, was that a Judy Garland song she was singing to herself?

According to the article, it was "Somewhere Over the Rainbow".

[scarynikki12]

1 hour ago, raven said:

I knew Jack would commit suicide but I was horrified that he would hang himself in the garage.  I know he took pills but wouldn't Ally have been the first to find him?  No way Jack would have wanted Ally to find him like that.    In my head, someone was sent to the house and they found him first.

At Ally's show she asks someone behind the scenes where Jack is, they say he isn't there yet, and someone (it was soft so I couldn't tell who) said they'll send someone to get him.  So, no, Ally was not the one who found him. 

[tennisgurl]

Loved the movie, and loved the soundtrack. I hope this movies needs some solid Oscar love, even in just nominations. Bradley Cooper really has a of talent both as an actor AND as a director. He made a lot of interesting directorial choices throughout, which I really enjoyed, and it had a very naturalistic, 70s aesthetic, which works really well for a rock star tale. And Bradley Cooper has got some serious pipes, who knew? And Lady Gaga put in a really great performance, she seemed very down to earth and real throughout. Which is kind of funny, as I found her rather meh playing an over the top character in AHS: Hotel, which seemed to be more in line with her original persona. I hope that she looks into doing more acting, she has real talent. 

I think one of my favorite scenes was when Bobby and Jack were talking in Bobby's truck, and Jack tells him that he was the one he idolized, and not their alcoholic dad, and the camera seems like its in the back seat, and you can see Bobby trying to hold back tears as he pulls the car back. Its just such an affecting little scene, and it seemed so real. 

Speaking of, the supporting cast was really great throughout. Andrew Dice Clay was surprisingly subdued and likable as Alleys father, Sam Elliot was great as his tell it like it is brother/parental figure, and even the more minor characters, like the sleazy asshole manager, and Alleys friend from the bar, really sold their scenes. And it was fun seeing some cameos and scenes from random people (Alec Baldwin! Dave Chappel!) and even some of the old Alias gang was here! I love how Bradley Cooper apparently decided to use his movie to not only tell a compelling story, but to have an Alias reunion party with some of his old pals!

I really bought Alley and Jack instantly connecting, and the love they had seemed so real, sweet, and intimate. Of course, Jacks addictions always put a damper on their storybook love affair, and while it was inevitable that it would lead somewhere bad, I hoped when he got out of rehab that we might get a happy ending, but it was not meant to be. You know, I dont think the manager was trying to drive Jack towards suicide, but what he said, right after he left rehab, was horribly cruel, and I hope that Alley told him to fuck off as soon as possible. After he told that story about trying to kill himself as a kid and how his dad never noticed, I got worried that this is where his story would end, and then I thought he would just leave, and then when he gave his dog a steak, I knew he was going to kill himself. 

Jack seemed like such a sweet guy, even while drunk and high pretty much 24/7. Really, one of the reasons he kept it up so long, besides being a rich, famous rock star, without people really intervening, is that he was never a mean or violent drunk (except for that one time he called her ugly, which he felt awful about), and generally seemed pretty highly functioning until the Grammy scene. Of course, it also doesn't help that he seemed so lonely, with only his employees and his brother around him, no wonder he attached himself to Alley so quickly. You know, despite what asshole manager said, Alley and Jack could have pretty easily staged a comeback for him. The Grammy stuff would probably lead to a lock of mockery, but I would also think a lot of sympathy, and the two of them could have turned it into a story about love and recovery, which I think people could get behind, especially with the opium epidemic getting so many headlines. Its just so sad that he got so close to making real progress. That poor doggy sitting by the garage, then at the door, waiting for Jack. Sad puppies always kill me! 

[SallyAlbright]

Saw it a second time, haven't done that since I was a teenager. Something about this movie really affected me, plus I love the soundtrack. Cooper was even more amazing the second time. I absolutely love that his real dog is in the film too. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Andrew Dice Clay was great in "Blue Jasmine" as well, which was 2013 I believe.  A great movie all around.

@raven, SO MUCH of the dialogue was mumbled!  It was killing me.  I will have to watch it a second time with captions, but that idolizing thing was one of the lines I DID understand.  I was really emotional from Bobby's reaction.  

I agree with you that Jack and Ally's chemistry felt so incredibly believable. Like real life believable.  It was really intense.

@tennisgurl what I took from the story though was that Ally would never find out what the manager said to Jack, though.  Why would the manager ever admit it after what happened?

I want to give a random shoutout to the movie "Country Strong" - I only saw it for the first time recently.  It wasn't that well received, but I actually really, really enjoyed it.  It's similar in theme. It's a nice coupling with this film.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[Luciano]

8 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Thanks.  William Belli?

Yep. He posted a screenshot of the scene on his IGbtoday. Along with some other fake boobs.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Luciano

[Enigma X]

Since it was 20 years ago when I saw the 1976 version and I have never seen the 1930s and 1950s versions, I am marathoning them now for comparison.

[Silver Raven]

I laughed when 70-somthing Sam Elliott told 40-something Bradley Cooper that when they tried to do a brother act people thought they were father and son.

17 hours ago, Enigma X said:

Since it was 20 years ago when I saw the 1976 version and I have never seen the 1930s and 1950s versions, I am marathoning them now for comparison.

Fredric March's Norman Maine was just feckless. I did laugh at the scene where he got into a tussle with the reporter and broke his camera.  Some things never change.

[Enigma X]

3 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

I laughed when 70-somthing Sam Elliott told 40-something Bradley Cooper that when they tried to do a brother act people thought they were father and son.

Fredric March's Norman Maine was just feckless. I did laugh at the scene where he got into a tussle with the reporter and broke his camera.  Some things never change.

After watching (and rewatching the 70s version), I think the 2018 version is the best and not only because I can relate better to it. 

 

Previously, I had said the 70s version was one of my fave movies. Um no! I think I was just mesmerized by Kristofferson's pretty. It is actually my least favorite. 

[Grammaeryn]

I seriously forgot I was watching a movie - it was that good! I'm glad I'm not the only one spotting the former Alias cast member cameos. Ally needed Al Anon or her own therapy to get out of the co-dependence and apologizing away bad behavior.  Since I come from a long line of alcoholics, I believe that the root is usually self medication. Poor Jack... I'm going to snap up the soundtrack because I can't get the songs out of my head.

Edited to add - the asshole producer is Bug from "Life Unexpected"

Edited October 8, 2018 by Grammaeryn

[memememe76]

I thought it was excellent. I have been quite meh with the Lead Actors the past few years, and Bradley just gave me a real passionate reason to care about that category again. He was phenomenal. 

Gaga was terrific, if perhaps not in the same level as Cooper. She established terrific rapport with all of the other characters, not just Cooper. Her rise to fame loses focus here, and we lose her perspective. But she was great in her final sequence.

I am sure this movie will get the inevitable backlash. But I will continue to back it. I want the big studios to continuing to make more adult dramas.

[Cranberry]

I watched the 1937, 1954, and 1976 versions last week and saw this one tonight. The 1954 version was my favorite; I thought Garland had just the right amount of wit and grit, and I loved her voice. Janet Gaynor was a little too wide-eyed innocent for me and Streisand was too much of a boss straight off the bat (I did like her, but she played meeting a rock star and getting swept up in his world way too cool). 2018's version is almost tied with 1954's for me, but I can't put it in first place because I feel like it was more Jackson's story than Ally's story and that we didn't get quite enough from her perspective. I thought Gaga did an excellent job, though, with very naturalistic acting. I liked Cooper's version of Maine the best by far, with James Mason second (he was charming and more sad than cruel), Fredric March third (he was a bit of a cad, but hey, 1937), and Kristofferson dead last (he was a narcissistic ass and was the only one where I was actively rooting for his death).

I didn't like the 1976 version adding infidelity to the story line; it felt out of place as we'd never gotten any indication that Maine was even looking at other women, and this was just some random woman who happened to be hanging out in his pool. I'm glad they didn't do that this time. I also felt like the 1976 version had too many "look at my ACTING" scenes, the most egregious of which was Esther clutching Norman's dead body while crying and telling him how scared she was -- again, they didn't do here, which I appreciated. The sad dog lying in front of the garage and the police lights flashing made the scene more powerful than seeing his body would have, I think.

The 1976 version also butchered some of the great exchanges from the previous films (the scene in the 1954 version where Norman tries to explain how Esther's singing made him feel by comparing it to skilled fishing and boxing was lovely; the 1976 version chopped this exchange down to only talking about fishing). The 2018 version had the lowest number of callbacks to the others, but that was okay, as a lot of lines would feel dated now. It did have the best version of the "I just wanted to take another look at you" exchange; it felt really natural here but more stilted in the other films.

The music was, of course, great. I love "Shallow" (and could see it winning Best Song) and I thought Cooper did a great job with all his songs. The pop songs Ally did were perfectly terrible.

Overall, I thought this was really well done. There were some beautiful shots, the music was all good and believable as popular music, the relationship felt real, and the dialogue -- with everyone talking over each other and screwing up and correcting themselves -- felt extra real. This was definitely a worthy remake.

[Proclone]

On 10/6/2018 at 7:02 PM, Silver Raven said:

I think a lot of people decide to criticize anything that's hyped because they want to come across as cooler than the ordinary critic.

This movie absolutely blew me away, and Bradley Cooper was just amazing.  I keep seeing hype for an Oscar for Gaga, but I wouldn't be surprised to see four nominations for Cooper - actor, director, Best Picture and Best Song (though there is a plethora of great songs in this movie to choose from).

Andrew Dice Clay surprised me.  I hated his comedian persona, but he did well here.

One thing that stood out for me was the way the acting was so naturalistic.  People talking over each other, people repeating each other, people interrupting each other.  It wasn't the typical script where one actor says all he has to say then the other actor responds.  I enjoyed the hell out of that.

 

I saw this last night and I completely agree.  Gaga was really great, but Cooper was fantastic for me and I hope does get multiple Oscar nods (and wins a couple).  His Jack is so screwed up but also such a lovely, kind, talented man that you can completely understand why everyone in his life forgives him over and over again.  Heck, as the audience you kind of want to forgive him anything.  There is something super endearing about him, and to be perfectly honest I really liked him from the moment his reaction to realizing he's in a drag bar is to chat with the drag queen sitting next to him, despite his outward appearance of a gruff rocker. I think the movie did a really good job at not excusing Jacks behavior, but still making him a likable character you are routing to get his shit together. Cooper and Gaga also have fantastic chemistry, and you totally buy that their characters love each other and also completely understand why they love each other.  And can I just say that I praised Emily Blunt for playing drunk a couple of years ago in Girl on the Train and I have to say that Cooper is as good if not better at playing drunk.  He's also pretty good at playing someone who has a hearing impairment as well.

I absolutely loved that the acting was so naturalistic.  There's a tendency in Oscar baity movies to have scenes of ACTING, where you watch the actors act as opposed their characters behave how people do in real life.  I don't necessarily think ACTING is always bad, movies don't have be completely realistic at all times.  But, there is no ACTING in this movie and I found it really refreshing.  I felt like every moment was so super real, that it made it all the more tragic.  And I completely give Cooper credit for that.  I'm surprised that a first time director who's also an actor, didn't give himself at least one scene of ACTING, but his restraint made the film that much more compelling to me.    I also liked that there seemed to be several "flubbed" lines that were kept in.  Ally at one point calls Jack her boyfriend (after they had gotten married) during their fight, and then riffs of off that to say he's not treating her like his wife. And later she tells her father to eat his dinner when they're obviously eating breakfast and then quickly corrects herself.  They're both little moments but it's so real not to say the right thing in a middle or a fight or misspeak when you're stressed out.  I honestly don't if they were scripted or not, but it added this little level of realism to the film that once again just made it so much sadder and tragic.  I felt like I was watching real people go through this as opposed to characters for most of the film.

 

I haven't seen the two earliest iterations of A Star is Born (the 1930's and 1950's versions), but I did see the Streisand version (though at least 15 years ago), and I while I don't think that's a bad movie, this version just blew me away.  I have to honestly say, I have never, that I can remember, cried at a movie in the theater.  I've occasionally gotten teared up at home, but the something about being with strangers removes me slightly and while I feel sad I don't cry.  I got more than a little misty at this movie.  It started with Sam Elliot and his damned red-rimmed eyes in the scene in the truck when he drops Jack off.

I can't honestly think of a movie I've seen this year that's a better or more deserving of the title Best Picture.  I really hope it is nominated for all the awards and that it wins most of them.  It's just a good movie, with excellent music.  At the very least Cooper should win Best Director because he took a plot that's been told three times before and elevated it, while also starring in it. And on top of that, having a co-lead who wasn't that experienced in acting, and he got great performances out of everyone in the movie.  If that doesn't equal Best Director, I really don't know what the category is rewarding.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Proclone

[Enigma X]

I actually like that the 2018 version fleshed out the Maine character to give us more insight into his descent. The previous versions purposely focused more on Esther (2018 version Ally) while I think making Maine more 3-D for 2018 was a conscious thought. I still found Ally/Esther to be 3-D and believable though. I agree that the current version was Maine's story and am ok with that. I have always been drawn to a story about someone chasing their demons.

 

I felt as if the 1976 version had less callbacks than the 2018 version (or maybe they changed it so much that I did not notice it was a callback). 

 

I found the acting well done in the 1950's version but I hate musicals with a few exceptions. I like movies where the theme is music (2018 version, Almost Famous, Walk the Line) and where faux concerts are performed. Musicals break the third wall way too much for me.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Enigma X

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 hours ago, Cranberry said:

I watched the 1937, 1954, and 1976 versions last week and saw this one tonight. The 1954 version was my favorite; I thought Garland had just the right amount of wit and grit, and I loved her voice. Janet Gaynor was a little too wide-eyed innocent for me and Streisand was too much of a boss straight off the bat (I did like her, but she played meeting a rock star and getting swept up in his world way too cool).

I haven't seen the other versions, but I kinda felt that way about Ally in this version!  She made it clear she knew exactly who she was, but she seemed very unimpressed or trying to downplay it?

[Enigma X]

44 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I haven't seen the other versions, but I kinda felt that way about Ally in this version!  She made it clear she knew exactly who she was, but she seemed very unimpressed or trying to downplay it?

The only version where I felt as if the female character was totally star struck was the 1930s version. In fact, and this could be the sign of the times, in the 1930s and 1950s versions it seemed that many regular people did not know who the male leads were in certain settings. 

 

In the 1970s version, I got the feeling that the Streisand character knew who the male lead (John Norman here not surname Maine) was but had to be too cool for school to act as if she cared. Which took me out of the whole celebrity descending and new one ascending mode. Also, the music in the 1970s version was just not that good.

 

I felt that Ally was a bit star struck just not groupy giddy upon meeting Jack.

[Proclone]

48 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I haven't seen the other versions, but I kinda felt that way about Ally in this version!  She made it clear she knew exactly who she was, but she seemed very unimpressed or trying to downplay it?

YMMV, but I thought Ally was trying to play it cool when she met Jack but didn't really succeed.  I also think that was pretty suspicious of him and his motivations until the scene in the parking lot where he takes care of her hand.  It seemed that she had at least some familiarity with the business and stars like Jack, and probably thought he was just trying to get into her pants until then as well.  I interpreted her being guarded around him as her trying to protect herself.

 

On 10/7/2018 at 8:41 PM, tennisgurl said:

I really bought Alley and Jack instantly connecting, and the love they had seemed so real, sweet, and intimate. Of course, Jacks addictions always put a damper on their storybook love affair, and while it was inevitable that it would lead somewhere bad, I hoped when he got out of rehab that we might get a happy ending, but it was not meant to be. You know, I dont think the manager was trying to drive Jack towards suicide, but what he said, right after he left rehab, was horribly cruel, and I hope that Alley told him to fuck off as soon as possible. After he told that story about trying to kill himself as a kid and how his dad never noticed, I got worried that this is where his story would end, and then I thought he would just leave, and then when he gave his dog a steak, I knew he was going to kill himself. 

Jack seemed like such a sweet guy, even while drunk and high pretty much 24/7. Really, one of the reasons he kept it up so long, besides being a rich, famous rock star, without people really intervening, is that he was never a mean or violent drunk (except for that one time he called her ugly, which he felt awful about), and generally seemed pretty highly functioning until the Grammy scene. Of course, it also doesn't help that he seemed so lonely, with only his employees and his brother around him, no wonder he attached himself to Alley so quickly. You know, despite what asshole manager said, Alley and Jack could have pretty easily staged a comeback for him. The Grammy stuff would probably lead to a lock of mockery, but I would also think a lot of sympathy, and the two of them could have turned it into a story about love and recovery, which I think people could get behind, especially with the opium epidemic getting so many headlines. Its just so sad that he got so close to making real progress. That poor doggy sitting by the garage, then at the door, waiting for Jack. Sad puppies always kill me! 

3

As others have said, I doubt Ally will ever know what her manager said to Jack.  And to be perfectly honest, even though he never should have said those things to a guy who just got out of rehab, he wasn't wrong.  Jack certainly could have staged a comeback, but he probably would fall off the wagon eventually.  He probably would have embarrassed Ally again publically.  And while the manager was certainly an ass for voicing that out loud to Jack, he isn't to blame for Jack killing himself...Jack is.

I liked that the movie had Bobby make it clear that Jack's suicide is only his own fault.  I think there's a danger in romanticizing Jack's suicide.  Which is why I'm really glad the film is rated R.  The most of the f-bombs could have been excised and the nude scenes could have been cut and we'd have a P-13 movie that still would have been good...but it's not an appropriate story for 13-year-olds to watch without some serious parental guidance.  Because on the surface it's, "Jack loved her so much that he killed himself so she wouldn't give up her career for him."  But that's not why Jack killed himself.  Jack had dozens of other choices.  What the manager said could have spurred him to be more focused on keeping sober for Ally...he could have decided that he and Ally should separate for a bit so she wasn't always worried about him...he could have called her out on her lie and told her to do the tour anyway...there were so many choices he could have made.  Jack killed himself because he was an addict who was depressed.

In hindsight, he may have been suicidal even before the manager said those things to him.  It's hard to tell whether the things he said to Ally and his brother were him making amends or him saying goodbye. 

I also give the movie loads of credit for neither showing his actual suicide or his body afterward.  I agree what was shown was more than effective and doesn't turn him into some sort of martyr for love like a lingering shot of his body might. 

Apologies if I've gone off on a bit of rant, but the year anniversary of the suicide of a friend who killed himself in an eerily similar way to Jack (he took narcotics and then hung himself with his belt) has just past.  Everyone who knew him has felt guilty for not realizing he was suicidal and wondered if they might have done or said someone that pushed him to that point.  I know it took me a while to forgive myself and realize that while it was mental illness that caused his death, no can or should be "blamed" for his death....he made a choice.  So, on another level this movie was painfully real.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Proclone said:

In hindsight, he may have been suicidal even before the manager said those things to him.  It's hard to tell whether the things he said to Ally and his brother were him making amends or him saying goodbye. 

He was.  Remember in rehab he told the doctor/therapist/whoever that he tried to kill hang himself when he was 13 but the ceiling fan broke.  I got the sense that he was unhappy for a long time, and he might have done what he did sooner if he had never met Ally.

Also, did anyone else catch the foreshadowing at the beginning of the movie when Jack riding from his concert in the limo and he passes by that giant billboard with those nooses?  

[mojoween]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Also, did anyone else catch the foreshadowing at the beginning of the movie when Jack riding from his concert in the limo and he passes by that giant billboard with those nooses?

Yes!  That was creepy, the way it was framed.

It also made me giggle later on when Bobby was backing up the truck and the Ram logo on the steering wheel was centered in the shot.

Charlie should be nominated for supporting actor, because those two scenes at the end would not have resonated with me as hard as they did without that beautiful dog.

Jack touched on this a little bit, when he bagged on Ally’s SNL song, but I was surprised the film didn’t delve more into what he was seeing, that successful Ally is not the same Ally he first noticed.  There were parts of the movie where all I could see was GAGA, not a talented girl who made it big.  

Andrew Dice Clay!  The whole movie it was driving me insane that I could not place him, and I still didn’t know until I came in here.  I love that Ally’s dad was rightfully furious at how Jack embarrassed his daughter but still cared enough to want to help.

Edited October 9, 2018 by mojoween

[Silver Raven]

17 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Jack touched on this a little bit, when he bagged on Ally’s SNL song, but I was surprised the film didn’t delve more into what he was seeing, that successful Ally is not the same Ally he first noticed.  There were parts of the movie where all I could see was GAGA, not a talented girl who made it big.  

That SNL performance was more Beyonce and not Lady Gaga.  That's not her performance style.

[Enigma X]

46 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Jack touched on this a little bit, when he bagged on Ally’s SNL song, but I was surprised the film didn’t delve more into what he was seeing, that successful Ally is not the same Ally he first noticed. 

I got that feeling too and thought that would be explored more, but the movie was already long. I will also say that before Jack, we hear Ally sing "La Vie En Rose." Next time we hear her she is singing something more in the rock genre. It is not clear to me if that was Ally's style or Ally imitating Jack's rock/country vibe. 

[mojoween]

1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

That SNL performance was more Beyonce and not Lady Gaga.  That's not her performance style.

Ha!  Yes that’s fair.  I can’t say I'm an expert of anything that’s not played on the radio, but Gaga doesn’t usually sing songs about his ass in those pants.

Which is why I personally could have used a little more about where those songs came from.  I know manager guy wanted her to write an album quickly, is that what they came up with?

[tennisgurl]

5 hours ago, Proclone said:

As others have said, I doubt Ally will ever know what her manager said to Jack.  And to be perfectly honest, even though he never should have said those things to a guy who just got out of rehab, he wasn't wrong. 

Yeah, she will likely never know what he said to Jack, and I certainly dont think he meant for anything like that to happen, or knew about Jacks past suicide attempt. Nor do I think it was his fault. However, that was still an awful thing to say to a person, and an awful way to say it. Ally will probably never find out what he said, but maybe she will catch on to his more sleazy side. 

[Proclone]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

He was.  Remember in rehab he told the doctor/therapist/whoever that he tried to kill hang himself when he was 13 but the ceiling fan broke.  I got the sense that he was unhappy for a long time, and he might have done what he did sooner if he had never met Ally.

Also, did anyone else catch the foreshadowing at the beginning of the movie when Jack riding from his concert in the limo and he passes by that giant billboard with those nooses?  

I agree that Jack obviously had long-standing mental health issues and I think music, in general, was his way of dealing with them, and part of his issues during the film was that his coping mechanism was slowing being taken away, both by his falling star and by his own body.  If I had one minor quibble with the movie, I say that it also didn't make it clear enough, that at least to me, it seemed that part of Jack's depression and by extension what was fueling his substance abuse issues, was his hearing loss.  The movie seemed very firmly set on showing and not telling and I applaud them for that, but a couple lines of dialogue about it from Jack as to how it affected him probably would have gone a long way.  I mean could you imagine being a world-class musician and slowly going deaf?  There are a couple of conversations about it, but I don't think it really makes it completely clear how devastating to him it must be.  But then again, also part of his self-destructive behavior is to ignore warnings and perform without ear protection.

 

50 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah, she will likely never know what he said to Jack, and I certainly dont think he meant for anything like that to happen, or knew about Jacks past suicide attempt. Nor do I think it was his fault. However, that was still an awful thing to say to a person, and an awful way to say it. Ally will probably never find out what he said, but maybe she will catch on to his more sleazy side. 

Oh to be sure the manager is a complete asshole, but not just for what he said to Jack.  To be honest, my hope is that if nothing else Jack's death spurred Ally to actually take his advice and use her music to say something.  Even if that means going back "behind the piano" and being less popular. This would, of course, involve jettisoning the douchy manager.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Proclone

[Ms Blue Jay]

9 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

That SNL performance was more Beyonce and not Lady Gaga.  That's not her performance style.

Don't agree.  Gaga is known for pop hits.

Some of Ally's pop hits were very Gaga.

Ally's "Why did you do that" is lyrically very similar to Gaga's "Telephone".

"Why did you do that" has a lyric that says "Why you keep on texting me like that?" 
"Telephone" is literally about somebody calling her too much.
Gaga even has a lyric where she sings "I cannot text you with a hand in my drink, eh."

Gaga also has a hit called "Just Dance".  This is very Ally.

I don't know why Beyonce would be more comparable at all.  Gaga is known for club hits, see her first huge album "The Fame".  She later experimented with country with her more recent album "Joanne".  Beyonce is all over the place, but primarily R&B.  

Edited October 10, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[Silver Raven]

5 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Don't agree.  Gaga is known for pop hits.

The SNL performance was not a Lady Gaga performance.  She doesn't dress like that for her shows and dance like that.

[Ms Blue Jay]

To me, that's exactly how Gaga came on the scene.  She is known for performances like that.  I guess I think completely differently on this.

[Silver Raven]

I don't see anything similar, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

[thuganomics85]

Gave this a go earlier due to all the hype and praise, and I'm glad I did.  Even though I've never seen the previous films and the storyline is overall pretty basic and straightforward, almost everything else elevated it and made it one of the best films this year for me.

Considering all the aspects he was involved in, it really is amazing how Bradley Cooper nailed almost all of them.  As an actor?  This might have been his best performance yet (no small feat), and he really made Jack a mess that could be hard to watch (him drunkenly insulting Ally was brutal), but he could also be a caring and loving individual, whenever he was able to hold off his demons (even if was only for brief moments.)  As a singer?  Didn't know he had those pipes and I dug his almost Eddie Vedder-ish style.  Co-writer?  Again, the storyline treaded common ground, but the way it was told and the way the dialogue flew and was delivered, helped elevate it.  And then there was Bradley Cooper as a director that really blew me away.  Can't believe this is his first go in the director's chair, because he was a natural.  Some of the shots and aesthetics were fantastic, and I liked the natural performances he got out of his cast (including himself.)  Really, he didn't just hit a home run, but sent the ball into a completely other stadium miles away.  Really can't wait to see where he goes from here as an artist.

I was surprised over how much I enjoyed Lady Gaga as well.  She probably didn't have as much heavy lifting as Cooper had, and I guess I could see arguments that this was in her wheelhouse, but I thought she gave a very emotional, charismatic, powerhouse performance here.  Never gave off any vibes of having limited experience, and played off everyone well.  And, of course, her chemistry with Cooper was perfect.  Never thought I would ever say this, but it wouldn't be that far-fetch to see her winning a Best Actress trophy, depending on the competition.

The supporting cast was great.  While his role wasn't as big as the leads, I hope Sam Elliot sneaks in a Supporting Actor nod, because he was fantastic.  Not just with the dialogue scenes like his conversations with Ally, but just his face when Jack told Bobby that he was who he actually idolized.  Sam Elliot continues to be the best.  Andrew Dice Clay (and the talent playing his driver buddies/roomates) and Anthony Ramos (Ramon) fit their roles well, and I grew to enjoy Dave Chappelle as well, once I got past my initial "Holy shit, it's comedian Dave Chappelle!" reaction.

Heard that Charlie was played by Bradley Cooper's real dog.  Nepotism!  Kidding!  And, yes, seeing both Greg Grunberg and Ron Rifkin here made me believe that part of this was just Bradley Cooper's way to get a mini-Alias reunion on the big screen.  He just needed to get Victor Garber and then it would have been perfection!

Despite going in blind, I figured it was all going to end with Jack's suicide, but I still thought it was a well-done moment that was tragic and haunting, but I felt like Cooper avoided romanticizing it by not seeing the act, and having the moment where Bobby tells Ally that isn't her or anyone else's fault, but Jack's.  It is still tragic that Jack was so broken to the point that he couldn't see any other option, but he was the one who made the decision.

Overall, it was a great experience.  Really curious to see how it plays with the Oscars.  I have to imagine Best Original Song is already engraved unless some kind of competitor comes out of nowhere ("Venom" by Eminem?  Ha!  "Out of Ashes" by Celine Dion?  Actually, that was pretty awesome but I'm not seeing it), and with him being involved with acting, writing, directing, and producing, I would be surprised if Bradley Cooper doesn't at least win one trophy. 

[SuburbanHangSuite]

18 hours ago, mojoween said:

Which is why I personally could have used a little more about where those songs came from.  I know manager guy wanted her to write an album quickly, is that what they came up with?

I know.  I walked away thinking that the manager took what was special about Ally and morphed it into this Bittany/Beyonce pop mess that would be perfect for mass consumption and that's what disgusted Jack.  That he inadvertently played a part in her commercialization.  I also choose to believe that's what he meant when he called her ugly.  I think he meant the pop  icon, red hair, crazy makeuped Ally was ugly---not the woman he met and married.

[rippleintime17]

I loved this, and I especially loved Bradley Cooper in it. Not knowing that this was basically a passion project for him until after I saw has made it more impactful, honestly. All of the songs in the first half of the movie have been on repeat since I saw it (the Jackson songs, the Jackson/Ally collabs, Ally's Jackson concert universe tunes are exceptional to me). I also love "Look What I Found," and found the full version on the soundtrack to be a perfect blend of the Ally that Jack met and the Ally that Ally becomes as she hits fame.

The first half of the movie is such a fantastic whirlwind. It was a thrill to watch it. When the movie slows down as the "honeymoon" period wears off, I started to have a few issues with the development of Ally but it wasn't enough to take me out of the movie, just left more up to interpretation I guess. I found myself sympathetic to Jackson's views on the direction of her career, even though I wasn't sure I was supposed to. I want to know more about how they worked when they were no longer centered around his tour. 

Jackson's downhill spiral was played so well, and was so uncomfortable at times. I think the line that got me most though, was when Bobby turns up at SNL and sees Jackson, already taken aback by how vapid Ally's performance was, they catch up a bit and then Bobby says, re: Jackson's hearing, "is it getting worse?" and Jackson's responds "I'm just here with my wife." The film did a good job of depicting how isolated and lost Jack was becoming, but those moments where we're reminded that he can't even hear anymore really broke my heart. 

Anyway. All the awards for Bradley Cooper. Play some gigs as Jackson Maine, I'll be there. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by rippleintime17

[BigBlueMastiff]

Saw this last night, and it was awesome. My husband even liked it, and he hates movies like this. Also love that Charlie (the dog), is Cooper's dog in real life ;)