S04.E10: Close Your Eyes

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 2018.08.19

Quote

Alicia's forced to reckon with an agonizing past while seeking refuge from a storm.

[Primstone]

it raining walkers, halleluiah  

[WalkerTalker]

Hi, 

It's time to FTWD. Alicia's reckoning!

[SoSueMe]

Ain't gonna let no Sharknado marathon get the upper hand :D

[MrsRafaelBarba]

What. A. Snoozefest.

[raven]

Ugh yeah that was boring.

[nodorothyparker]

A nicely themed title card and a walker in a tree.  Oh, and a whole lot of tedious angsting in a flooded basement over whether characters should kill each other or bother living at all.  That really took an hour.

[Crone]

I’m going to have to take up knitting while watching- at least I’ll feel productive. 

[SimoneS]

I made the mistake of watching this episode. Characters go walkabout by themselves as usual. Characters refuse to kill characters they promise to or should kill as usual. I will give it credit for nothing changing.

[xjumper65]

FTWD is just getting ridiculous. Besides being a boring episode that is so over wrought and cliché, Alicia's weapon is about as impractical as you can get. Its heavy, too big for her hands, can't be carried on her belt (so she has to carry it all day),  and all those jagged edges pointing forward would prevent it from penetrating more than a couple inches, In a world like this where everything is free for the taking, a slim round steel bar would be a MUCH better weapon for killing walkers. For example, a fireplace poker with the hook ground off, a piece of rebar sharpened on one end with a "T" shape on the other end, or even a piece of wrought iron fence with a spike on the end would be far superior. I get that the writers probably think the sharpened flash suppressor of a .50 cal machine gun looks bad-ass, but its really just absurd. And don't get me started about how she gets knocked out trying to open a car door!!!! Oh and q0 year old Charlie is able to lift Alicia's dead weight onto a sled, drag her back across the yard, and haul her up the stairs and into the living room?  PLEASE, just stop!!!!

[xjumper65]

Oh and I love how in the middle of a huge storm the walkers were able to zero in on the sound of a lone hammer at a distance. C'mon.

[Christi]

Did she kill an animal in the fireplace?

[Iguessnot]

2 hours ago, Christi said:

Did she kill an animal in the fireplace?

I though it must have been a long dead animal stuck in the fireplace but I had no clue why she was down about it.  I've always hated Charlie, but I was so relieved they finally had that brat talk. 

Why would they light candles and eat in view of the walkers? At least close the curtains. 

Why would a walker falling on a cellar door, actually break the chain that was holding the door together? I couldn't believe they threw in the "he saved us" line. I was afraid they were going to reveal was good ole walker Nick who saved them.

At the end, Alicia was speaking of having abandoned Morgan and the others. So when Charlie was imploring that they have to save them, I thought that's who she was talking about. I was taken by surprised when she was talking about some random bus thrown on the bridge. Why would Alicia and Charlie think that anyone recently alive would even be on the bus?

[SimoneS]

40 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Alicia and her family have killed some innocent people along the way.  Alicia is in no position to judge the girl that killed her brother. 

 

No wonder the show is a snore. Predictably becoming besties with the person who killed your sibling in a few hours isn't just unrealistic, it is not entertaining tv, period.

Edited August 20, 2018 by SimoneS

[nodorothyparker]

11 hours ago, Christi said:

Did she kill an animal in the fireplace?

There was a dead bird in there.  I only know this because I happened on a couple of minutes of TTD while flipping around after I went to bed last night.  We were apparently supposed to recognize it as a callback to the midseason finale and Madison's interminable story about the dying bird to Althea and see that it reminded Alicia of her.  As I've said many times over the years, if you can't write it clear enough that I can get what you were going for without a followup show to tell me what the point is, you're failing at your job.

 

9 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

At the end, Alicia was speaking of having abandoned Morgan and the others. So when Charlie was imploring that they have to save them, I thought that's who she was talking about. I was taken by surprised when she was talking about some random bus thrown on the bridge. Why would Alicia and Charlie think that anyone recently alive would even be on the bus?

John Dorie and Laura/Naomi/June appeared to be living in the bus at the beginning of last episode.  Charlie had been in there with them and the way John was talking about her/to her it seemed like he thought they would be assuming responsibility for her as pseudo parents going forward because he talked about taking her with them if they went back to his cabin.   Alicia and Charlie don't seem to have realized yet that because it's this franchise that nobody was home because everybody went tearing off in different directions into the storm.

I'm as surprised as anyone that I remember any of this.

[sugarbaker design]

On the TD, one of the writers/producers told the panel that the bird in the chimney, not only was a reminder of Madison's story, but the bird also blocked the chimney, asphyxiating the family that lived there.  Neither of the panelists, who watched the episode, realized that.  I didn't realize it either.  If a producer has to come on a talk show and explain plot points, then the writing isn't all that great to begin with.

[Iguessnot]

17 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

There was a dead bird in there.  I only know this because I happened on a couple of minutes of TTD while flipping around after I went to bed last night.  We were apparently supposed to recognize it as a callback to the midseason finale and Madison's interminable story about the dying bird to Althea and see that it reminded Alicia of her.  As I've said many times over the years, if you can't write it clear enough that I can get what you were going for without a followup show to tell me what the point is, you're failing at your job.

 

John Dorie and Laura/Naomi/June appeared to be living in the bus at the beginning of last episode.  Charlie had been in there with them and the way John was talking about her/to her it seemed like he thought they would be assuming responsibility for her as pseudo parents going forward because he talked about taking her with them if they went back to his cabin.   Alicia and Charlie don't seem to have realized yet that because it's this franchise that nobody was home because everybody went tearing off in different directions into the storm.

I'm as surprised as anyone that I remember any of this.

Oh so it was that bus. Shows you how much I was paying attention. Still Charlie could have personalized the "them" to give the audience a clue. And if Alicia could chase down the source of notes nailed on walkers, why wouldn't she spend two minutes to check out the bus for her recent travelling buddies?

Bird thing flew over my head :)

[nodorothyparker]

22 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

On the TD, one of the writers/producers told the panel that the bird in the chimney, not only was a reminder of Madison's story, but the bird also blocked the chimney, asphyxiating the family that lived there.  Neither of the panelists, who watched the episode, realized that.  I didn't realize it either.  If a producer has to come on a talk show and explain plot points, then the writing isn't all that great to begin with.

I must have changed the channel or dozed off before they got that far into it.

Not that I want to derail an episode thread talking about TTD, but how the hell were we supposed to deduce that?  Because what we saw onscreen was a random dead bird in the fireplace and the walker versions of the family in the pictures.  Nothing else.  In the past we might have gotten a noose, a gun with obvious bullet holes, poison laid out, something to indicate how they died if we were supposed to connect the dots on their story.  Ironically, it's always been those tiny snippets of life interrupted or ended that have been among my favorite things on both shows.  At times they've been done very well in giving me a sense of an entire story in just a few images.  This wasn't one of those times.

[Iguessnot]

22 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

On the TD, one of the writers/producers told the panel that the bird in the chimney, not only was a reminder of Madison's story, but the bird also blocked the chimney, asphyxiating the family that lived there.  Neither of the panelists, who watched the episode, realized that.  I didn't realize it either.  If a producer has to come on a talk show and explain plot points, then the writing isn't all that great to begin with.

Of course Miss California girl Alicia knows about unblocking chimneys. I knew she was fiddling with the chimney, but nothing clicked for me.

[FortKnox]

I spent most of the ep trying not to go to sleep or playing on my phone.

[MrPissyPuppy]

I thought/hoped that Alicia was going to shoot Charlie at the end and was just having her close her eyes and telling her a story so the death would be easier on both of them.   The young woman playing Charlie is doing a nice job; I just don't like the character. 

[sugarbaker design]

The producer insinuated the family was asphyxiated overnight, while they were all sleeping in the living room, hence all the sleeping bags on the floor.

Edited August 20, 2018 by sugarbaker design

[TWOPrefugee]

Alicia should have used two pieces of wood to hold the door. One ain't good enough.

And on the subject of cellars and cellar doors. Where in Texas? I assume the gulf coast of Texas, did they find a house with a cellar?

That home actually appeared to be a post and beam constructed house, which would have had a crawl space, not a cellar.

Edited August 20, 2018 by TWOPrefugee

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

The producer insinuated the family was asphyxiated overnight, while they were all sleeping in the living room, hence all the sleeping bags on the floor.

I'm not doubting you, but isn't that a bit of a writing/storytelling gaffe?  Is it probable for 4 to 5 people to all die of the same thing, and not a one of them woke up to something being seriously & life-endangering wrong? 

Its possible, obviously, but even in fantasyland TV, I'm betting its extremely improbable.

[OoohMaggie]

If a room is being heated by a gas fire with a blocked chimney, then it is easy for people to be overcome with carbon monoxide poisoning without them being aware it is happening,  resulting in unconsciousness then death, if the fire used fuel that gave off smoke, ie a wood fire, then the room would become so full of smoke so quickly that it would become unliveable long before unconsciousness occurred, unless perhaps they were all blind drunk before they lit it.

[OoohMaggie]

Sorry icemiser, I seem to have repeated what you said,  I agree with all your other points as well, not a great episode, why would people live in busses and trucks when there are thousands of houses, with beds, bathrooms, kitchens and strong brick walls to utilise and hide behind? Lol

[meep.meep]

such bad acting .......

such bad writing .......

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

58 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

such bad acting .......

such bad writing .......

I know this is just an off-shoot of the parent show, but I remember the first few seasons of TWD and being impressed that even with such a created world, there was little to complain about with the writing or overall story.  For what the show was, it mostly held together fine.

Now and recent past, on both shows?  Its like tweeny fanficcers are paid to write the scripts, without betas to check & fine-tune the created works.

[Starchild]

8 hours ago, MrPissyPuppy said:

I thought/hoped that Alicia was going to shoot Charlie at the end and was just having her close her eyes and telling her a story so the death would be easier on both of them.   The young woman playing Charlie is doing a nice job; I just don't like the character. 

Me too. I was so disappointed that scene didn't end with a bullet to the head. I saw an article today that the writers used "The Grove" as inspiration for this episode. In my opinion they didn't go far enough.

Are they really going to try to make Alicia the anchor of this show? Mistake.

[Haleth]

20 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

On the TD, one of the writers/producers told the panel that the bird in the chimney, not only was a reminder of Madison's story, but the bird also blocked the chimney, asphyxiating the family that lived there.  Neither of the panelists, who watched the episode, realized that.  I didn't realize it either.  If a producer has to come on a talk show and explain plot points, then the writing isn't all that great to begin with.

Manoman, that must have been one huge bird.  Shoot, what was it?  An eagle or something?  I couldn't even tell it was a bird, I thought it was a raccoon.  And I didn't associate it with Madison's little birdie story from a couple weeks ago.  Bad writing.  Asphyxiating the family?  That is really dumb.  

The episode would have been more enjoyable if I cared about either character.  Kids on shows like this are bad enough anyway-- mopey, disobedient, always in trouble-- but I feel the introduction of Charlie is manipulative.  Everyone (except Alicia) treats her as a precious jewel.  I wonder how much the writers want us to subconsciously see her as a replacement for Carl?  Even her name is evocative of the boy we lost.  Sorry, writers, she's not doing it for me.

[bc1795]

What?  Did a turkey get stuck up there?

[jane1978]

Total minority here, but ever since first half of the season I wanted Alicia and Charlie to bond. So I´m very happy the writers are going there, instead of Charlie living as a surrogate daughter with John and Laura. They could be like the two girl leads duo from ZombieLand. Also, this was very character drama heavy episode but I think both actresses did well. 

[MVFrostsMyPie]

I thought that was Bob Saget's grandson on the couch making an appearance on TD.

[Donder]

That episode was so bad, it was good.

[SnarkyTart]

For me, this episode was so bad it was just bad.  Given one unlikable character you wish was dead (Charlie) and twice the monologuing (long scenes of Alicia talking talking talking to the door), and it was almost exactly like the mothership show with all its flaws. 

I had it even worse than the lot of you who were able to identify that the object in the fireplace was a dead animal, or maybe even a bird. My viewing partner had no idea what it was. Honestly, I thought it was Charlie's coat, as it occurred immediately after Alicia kept yelling at Charlie to give her her coat. I wish it had been.  At least that would have made Alicia a little more interesting, knowing she would take the little brother-murdering psychopath's coat away from her and burn it. Needless to say, thinking the object was Charlie's coat, I had no idea it had anything to do with Alicia's fiddling with the fireplace, or that the former occupants had died of asphyixiation, or that it was any kind of callback to Madison's story of her children saving a bird.

I was so distracted by the failed plot logic that a walker falling from a tree would cause a freaking chain to break on the cellar door, I could barely muster a pissed off feeling when Charlie said, "He saved us!"

So disappointing!  I wanted the Dorie and Drunk Strand roadtrip with double the flying zombies.

Edited August 22, 2018 by SnarkyTart

[DrNowsWeightScale]

I haven't read any of the other posts in this thread yet.

Had to learn from watching the Talking Dead show right after this episode that the object Alicia was looking at in the fireplace was a dead bird.

I think the show runner guy (whoever that guy was) also explained that the dead bird clogging up the chimney is what killed the family in the house(???)

When I watched the episode myself the first time, I could not make out what the object was in the fireplace that Alicia was looking at. I also did not put together that the family died from Co2 poisoning from the clogged chimney.

One of my pet peeves of FTWD and the original TWD show is that I sometimes don't understand the significance of some scene, object, or bit of dialogue until the after-show, where one of the guests explains it to us. 

One detail that sort of bothered me - the day after the hurricane hit, and Alicia and the kid stepped outdoors, (maybe I am remembering incorrectly), but the area outside looked pretty dry, and, I don't recall seeing any trees or branches knocked down or scattered about the yard.

At least one tree was knocked down - the guy on the after-show said that a branch from the tree by the house is what knocked open that hole for Alicia and the kid to escape. (That was something else that confused me... I couldn't figure out what had knocked open that cellar door).

But other than that, there was no debris on the property after the storm that I recall.

I've lived through 3 or 4 hurricanes in about three different Gulf Coast states (including Texas), and it's still waterlogged / puddles everywhere, and branches down, sometimes trees are pulled up by the roots, fences knocked down, etc., the day after a hurricane goes through.

Charlie is still not a favorite character of mine, but finding out about her back story and that she is struggling heavily with guilt over killing another character made me develop a little empathy for her. I don't dislike her quite as much as before.

I thought it was an "okay" episode, but my new favorite character (John Dorie) was not in it (or very little - was this the one where he was going to play scrabble with the kid on the bus, or was that last episode?), so I was a little bummed about that. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by DrNowsWeightScale

[DrNowsWeightScale]

On 8/20/2018 at 10:32 AM, nodorothyparker said:

Alicia and Charlie don't seem to have realized yet that because it's this franchise that nobody was home because everybody went tearing off in different directions into the storm.

It's like the good ol' days of the other TWD, "Stay in the house Carl!"

It would've been kind of funny if they had a similar thing going on FTWD with Charlie and the adults telling her "Stay in the bus, Charlie!"

On 8/20/2018 at 10:37 AM, sugarbaker design said:

On the TD, one of the writers/producers told the panel that the bird in the chimney, not only was a reminder of Madison's story, but the bird also blocked the chimney, asphyxiating the family that lived there.  Neither of the panelists, who watched the episode, realized that.  I didn't realize it either.  If a producer has to come on a talk show and explain plot points, then the writing isn't all that great to begin with.

Yes. I made a similar point above. Not only was I unable to recognize what the blob was in the fireplace Alicia kept looking at, but I didn't stop to consider that the bird clogged the fireplace, killing the family.

 And I was too lazy to google for the spelling of "asphyxiating" which is why I didn't use that word in my last post about this. Kudos to you for knowing how to spell that!

You said, "If a producer has to come on a talk show and explain plot points, then the writing isn't all that great to begin with."

Agreed. I was just saying in a post above this has been one of my small problems with both TWD shows... They toss in some small detail and you either overlook it or don't recognize the significance until a guest on the Talking Dead explains it or mentions it. I sometimes pick up on these small details on my own, sometimes not.

[DrNowsWeightScale]

On 8/20/2018 at 12:51 PM, MrPissyPuppy said:

 The young woman playing Charlie is doing a nice job; I just don't like the character. 

I agree. I think the actress playing her is very convincing.

She's way better, IMHO, than the actor who played the kid on the original TWD show (Carl). I usually found his acting to be flat and unconvincing. (Edit. But he seems like a nice person in his personal life, which is good.)

On 8/20/2018 at 2:21 PM, icemiser69 said:

Given how both series seem to love to kill off horses, I am surprised a horse didn't fall out of the chimney. j/k

Another big pet peeve of mine, as I'm a big animal lover.... Just once, I'd like to see either show have an animal turn on zombies, rip them apart, and survive and triumph. 

One of the recent FTWD episodes showed a horse on its side, being eaten on by a group of zombies on a street in the rain - that was either this episode being discussed in this thread, or the previous one (can't remember which). Don't know if you caught that or not. It wasn't on the screen too awful long.

One or both shows have killed off (via hunting or zombies) dogs, horses, a tiger, owls, squirrels, and I forget what all else. It bugs me. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by DrNowsWeightScale

[DrNowsWeightScale]

On 8/20/2018 at 3:51 PM, TWOPrefugee said:

And on the subject of cellars and cellar doors. Where in Texas? I assume the gulf coast of Texas, did they find a house with a cellar?

That home actually appeared to be a post and beam constructed house, which would have had a crawl space, not a cellar.

I lived along the Gulf Coast in Texas for many years, and at least in the newer neighborhoods, I don't recall any of the homes having cellar doors. I lived in the suburbs.

I'm not sure about any older homes, or homes out in "the sticks."

If that turns out to be inaccurate on their part... it reminds me of an early season of TWD where the characters go into a Baptist Church (I believe there was a sign right by the church advertising it as Baptist), and there's a large crucifix at the front.

I can't think of any Baptist churches that would have a crucifix - they'd either have a plain wooden cross (no figure on it), or no cross at all (if they are trying to present as a non-denominational type place). Crucifixes are the province of Roman Catholic Churches, not Baptists.

[DrNowsWeightScale]

8 hours ago, jane1978 said:

Total minority here, but ever since first half of the season I wanted Alicia and Charlie to bond. So I´m very happy the writers are going there, instead of Charlie living as a surrogate daughter with John and Laura. They could be like the two girl leads duo from ZombieLand. Also, this was very character drama heavy episode but I think both actresses did well. 

One of the things I thought was good about Charlie being a surrogate daughter for Laura is that we learned on an earlier episode that Laura's real daughter died at that CDC / FEMA center or whatever it was.

I figured if Laura is going to be step-mom to Charlie, that would help her cope more with the loss of her biological daughter.

I warmed up to the Charlie character a little bit this episode. I'm not opposed to her and Alicia bonding.

I felt that the acting done by Charlie (real first name is "Alexa") was very good, way better than that of the kid who played Carl on the original TWD show.

[CloudySky]

There were some good moments in the episode but also an equal amount of badly written moments. The trend of the writers just doing whatever it takes to get the characters to point B, logic and realism be damned, continues.

The major flaw was that the point of this episode  - Alicia and Charlie bonding - was so telegraphed...there was almost no point in watching it. Especially because they spoiled Charlie surviving the basement in the trailer (that showed Alicia and Charlie driving in a car so you knew they survived past that point).

The episode could have been redeemed if Alicia stabbed Charlie in the car and threw her out like garbage. And I say that as someone who doesn't hate Charlie, can see her point of view, and like the actress. But this ain't some Once Upon a Time fairytale, showrunners. The quick turnaround Alicia had with regards to Charlie was ridiculous. It's one thing to be able to tolerate her/not want to kill her. But smiling, telling stories, giving her her weapon,...Um, no. That was even more ridiculous than the deus ex walker breaking open the door.

I loved the first half of the episode, it became meh towards the end.

I have to join the club of people who had no idea what the thing in the fireplace was.

I think the original idea the writers had to put Alicia and Morgan together would have been better because the outcome wouldn't have been as predictable. I wasn't surprised to hear this script was quickly cobbled together 3 days before shooting because they had this new idea. I would have also preferred Alicia/Strand or Alicia/Althea. Oh well.

[Red Bridey]

I had no idea that there was a dead bird in the fireplace...I now don't even care that I now know.  I thought that the house was Charlie's own house and the people may have been her people.  That theory didn't pan out; so then I was looking at the blonde athletic woman in the photo and thought it was Laura/Naomi/June.  But that didn't pan out either.  So then I just didn't care.  I am just watching to watch and wait for more Drunk Strand because HE is my ZA spirit animal.

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

I did get the reference to the bird in the fireplace, but not the cause of the death of the family.  I am really sick of Alicia, " I want to be left alone" shtick, she does that at least once a season. What I miss about at least the earlier days of TWD was the scavenger aspect of the ZA, a small group that ventures out to find shit, maybe Alicia and Charlie can find fucking rubber bands to braid each others hair now that they are bff's.. IDK... I guess why I still watch is the "What would I do" in a ZA... Why isn't anyone thinking about heading to the mountains of Colorado or something ?  Crap, now that I gave you my location of where my ass will be headed, you all better gift me with some ramen box's when you show up  :)

[Janimo]

I may have missed something but how did they manage to get an actual photograph of the dead walker family outside in the rain? Was there a Polaroid somewhere in this episode?

[Texasmom1970]

If I close my eyes can someone convince me Alicia is not on the show anymore!

[AG921]

I'm finally catching up on these episodes but I sure am in the minority here. I really liked this episode! I really don't mind when an entire episode is dedicated to one or two characters instead of checking up on everyone for a few minutes each. I am actually starting the like Charlie now that spoke up about herself and we can get a peak into her frame of mind and what she is thinking/feeling.

Alicia was given the opportunity to either let Charlie die by walker bite or to shoot the girl herself and she was unable to do either. I think it was important for her to see that as much as she hates everything that Charlie has done, she doesn't actually want to kill people. I'm excited to see where her story goes now that her family is gone. I also really liked that Alicia didn't want to go running out looking for the others when they saw the tipped bus because we've seen that a million times before so something different sounds good to me.

I'll admit that I even teared up a little bit during the basement scene to see how broken and hopeless Charlie felt!

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, AG921 said:

I'll admit that I even teared up a little bit during the basement scene to see how broken and hopeless Charlie felt!

Glad to hear I'm not the only one :)