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Crisis On Infinite Earths 2019: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Their Story

scarynikki12

By scarynikki12
in Legends Of Tomorrow

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This thread is specifically for discussion of Elseworlds, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and speculation and spoilers directly pertaining to them.  Full rules for the thread are here; please read them.  Off-topic posts may be removed.

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BkWurm1
BkWurm1

Aww crap. I was hoping he'd be bored and have moved away from the crossover by next year.  I really don't like the narrow focus on just the leads.  I was willing to put up with it this year but now I'

Starfish35
Starfish35

I’m dying. 🤣 From Tumblr:

Mellowyellow
Mellowyellow

Ahh good old Stephen and his NOPE face reserved for everyone who isn't EBR. At least he doesn't look like he wants to break Iris's arm there! We had a temp LI in S5 and there was a scene where sh

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

You may recall that MG had described Laurel's appearance in the Arrow crossover hour as "Incredibly emotional and raw." That would certainly fit if they're recreating Sara's death scene.

Yeah, in "Sara" Laurel is wearing a pink shirt with blood all over it similar to the one that Katie was wearing in the BTS pic she posted and she had smeared blood on her face in the same spot. That's probably it. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

A few more spoilers from the guy who posted them for the first episode and got it right:

Ep4.

edit: forgot to mention that the Paragons were stuck in the Vanishing Point for months and that the Flash went missingduring that time

Barry uses the Speed Force to get everyone to the Dawn of Time. Spectre Oliver defeats the Anti-Monitor. It was a bit anti-climactic. A new Multiverse is created. Oliver dies again.

Ep5.

E-38 and E-1 are now called E-Prime. Only the Paragons remember the previous Multiverse. Luthor now owns the DEO. Jonn went and restored most of the important people's memories. Anti-Monitor is alive. They defeat him by perpetually shrinking him. They make a beta version of JLA with Supergirl, Flash, White Canary, Superman, Manhunter, Black Lightning and Batwoman. E-2 is where Stargirl is set with the JSA I think. E-9 is Titans. E-19 is Swamp Thing. E-21 is Doom Patrol.

 

ETA some Q&A:

Q: So five Earths are left but Earth 1 and Earth 38 have merged.

A: Not 5. Still an infinite number of earths. They just showcased that the other earths are restored and shit

 

Q: Can we expect to see Brandon Routh as Superman again or not?

A: Small cameo yes

 

Q: Do they actually name drop the Justice League?

A: No but they have chairs

 

 

Q: What earth is Black Lightning in?

Prime. The new current

 

Comment without a question: Forgot to mention that Oliver says "You have failed this universe!" to the Anti-Monitor lol
[editorial note from me: groan sounds]

 

Q: There seems to be some time travel involved (Sara's death, Season 5 Oliver fighting) - what's that about?

Is Oliver in part 5 at all or is his death the end of it for him?

 

A: The Paragons got stuck in the Speed Force and I guess that was what they were seeing. Oliver is not in part 5

 

Comment without a question: 

I freaking forgot to mention that here is a giant beebo in ep5

 

Edited by apinknightmare
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way2interested

way2interested

(edited)

I love how it's literally just the endings, because I still have a bunch of questions with stuff that happens in the episodes XD (ex: where does Diggle's GL show up, what's with revisiting past moments like Kate at Palmer Tech or Sara's death, what are the other cameos, how does everyone poof back, where's Lyla, what's SA do in part 5, etc.)

Edited by way2interested
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

6 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I love how it's literally just the endings, because I still have a bunch of questions with stuff that happens in the episodes XD (ex: where does Diggle's GL show up, what's with revisiting past moments like Kate at Palmer Tech or Sara's death, what are the other cameos, how does everyone poof back, where's Lyla, what's SA do in part 5, etc.)

People have asked some of this stuff, he just hasn't answered yet. If he does I'll paste in here.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

18 minutes ago, way2interested said:

 what's with revisiting past moments like Kate at Palmer Tech or Sara's death, what are the other cameos, how does everyone poof back, where's Lyla, what's SA do in part 5, etc.)

Here you go (also pasted above):

A couple of questions:

There seems to be some time travel involved (Sara's death, Season 5 Oliver fighting) - what's that about?

Is Oliver in part 5 at all or is his death the end of it for him?

The Paragons got stuck in the Speed Force and I guess that was what they were seeing. Oliver is not in part 5

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

18 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Oliver is not in part 5

I know it’s the LoT hour and I know everything we know about Arrow and all the spec we’ve been doing over on those threads about the final two episodes, but still, my first reaction was, “well, that’s so stupid.”

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Starry

Starry

Oliver not being in the last episode is odd even with him dying in the previous one.

How convenient that they are going to merge Earth-1 with the Black Lightning and Supergirl's Earths only.

 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

If those reddit spoilers are true (Oliver dies again, and he's not in Part 5), then my enthusiasm level for the conclusion of this crossover event just plummeted.

Also, honestly, at this point, I'm sick of Beebo. And adding him to a crossover involving the death of a major character is just tacky.

Edited by tv echo
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Oreo2234

Oreo2234

(edited)
Quote

Luthor now owns the DEO.

Just last year we had the DEO being controlled by a corrupt president (who was basically working for Lex) and Haley acting like the director and now Lex owns it.  Is Alex ever going to get to be the true leader of this organization? Why do these writers keep repeating variations on the same stuff? Hopefully Alex, Brainy etc at least get their memories back. Also, does somebody owning the DEO mean it is no longer a government organization?

Quote

How convenient that they are going to merge Earth-1 with the Black Lightning and Supergirl's Earths only.

It kinda makes sense that the Paragons earth's might merge but how are they gonna justify including Black Lightning's?

I never thought the whole multiverse would be gone for good. There is too much story potential in it and they weren't going to permanently erase the Titans and Smallville's Earths. 

Edited by Oreo2234
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Starry

Starry

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

Those spoilers honestly sound incomplete. Its just like writing down bullet points. 

They are definitely incomplete. The person guesses that the Sara death scene and the Oliver fighting scene are in there because the Paragons got stuck in the Speed Force and that's what they are seeing. He sounds unsure and could have gotten some of the details wrong.

But if he is to be trusted we are going to get Doom Patrol and Swamp Thing cameos. Otherwise I don't get what's the point in mentioning what Earth they are on.

I really could do without Beebo.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

56 minutes ago, Starry said:

They are definitely incomplete. The person guesses that the Sara death scene and the Oliver fighting scene are in there because the Paragons got stuck in the Speed Force and that's what they are seeing. He sounds unsure and could have gotten some of the details wrong.

Yeah, there are times where this person posts very detailed point-by-point descriptions of most things that happen in the episode, and things like this where they just post a few points. I've never been able to figure out how exactly they get these spoilers, whether they work BTS and see copies of the eps themselves or know someone who does. 

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Starry

Starry

All the photos seem to be from the same scene.

 

1 hour ago, Oreo2234 said:

It kinda makes sense that the Paragons earth's might merge but how are they gonna justify including Black Lightning's?

I never thought the whole multiverse would be gone for good. There is too much story potential in it and they weren't going to permanently erase the Titans and Smallville's Earths. 

They probably want Black Lightning to be on Earth-Prime so the show can deal with the consequences from Crisis but like I said it's awfully convenient that only those Earths get merged. They should have some other random Earth merge with Earth-1 too just to make it less obvious that they merged Kara and Jefferson's Earths with Earth-1 because unlike Smallville and Titans Supergirl and Black Lightning are officially a part of the Arrowverse and don't have a doppelgänger problem.

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quarks

quarks

1 hour ago, Starry said:

but like I said it's awfully convenient that only those Earths get merged. 

I mean, you're not wrong, but isn't "awfully convenient" like the go to writing/plotting method of all these shows, Black Lightning as the occasional exception?

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Starry

Starry

7 minutes ago, quarks said:

I mean, you're not wrong, but isn't "awfully convenient" like the go to writing/plotting method of all these shows, Black Lightning as the occasional exception?

Yes it is.

Shame on me for being constantly surprised that this keeps happening 😉

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Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)

I'm not surprised that Spectre-Oliver dies or that they'd want to do it at least one last time in an Arrow ep but I thought SA had said he was in all 5 episodes? Although that could be a 10 second thing in LOT. He dies defeating the anti Monitor who then immediate turns out to be alive again? Right. 

Luthor's in charge of the DEO, not surprised and DO NOT WANT. I'm all Lex'ed out after this crossover. Lena is head ache inducing enough at the moment, but that might get changed. 

Certainly not surprised Beebo is making an appearance. I assume he's not hugging the anti Monitor to death, that might surprise some non LOT viewers. 

Looks like there's a lot of stuff that's missing but that's not surprising. 

Edited by Featherhat
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Bill1978

Bill1978

21 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I freaking forgot to mention that here is a giant beebo in ep5

Welcome back LoT, how I have missed you. Glad they are still prepared to be crazy in their crossover episode. I'm probably one of the few people who only watch these crossovers because of LoT, it's the only Arrowverse show I watch.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Other source links for LoT crossover promos pics (Part 5)...
http://dclegendstv.com/2020/01/13/crisis-on-infinite-earths-part-5-photos-released/
https://www.cwtvpr.com/the-cw/photos?page=1&show=dcs-legends-of-tomorrow&season=&episode=

If Earth-2 comes back, then they'll have to explain why E2 Laurel doesn't return to her Earth (considering how desperate she was to get back after it was destroyed earlier this season on Arrow). Instead, we know she's going to be sticking around on Earth-1 or Earth-Prime (whatever) for the Mia/Canaries spinoff.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Crisis on Infinite Earths creators reveal what they'd change in their iconic comic
By Chancellor Agard January 13, 2020
https://ew.com/books/2020/01/13/crisis-on-infinite-earths-marv-wolfman-george-perez-interview/ 

Quote

Marv Wolfman and George Pérez, the writer and artist behind DC Comics’ groundbreaking series Crisis on Infinite Earths, are still surprised that their 12-issue saga has endured for so long, let alone become the basis of a major television crossover event.

“We never, not once, ever assumed this would be remembered 35, 40 years later, or that it would be five episodes of TV,” Wolfman tells EW. “This is far beyond anything we imagined.”

“I never could have imagined it could have been adapted,” Pérez adds. “It had over 500 characters, which also had 500 different continuities going for them.”
*  *  *
... While the Arrowverse had to modify the story to suit its needs, it’s paying homage to the many different corners of the DC universe in the same way the comic did when it was released. Not only that, but Wolfman co-wrote part 4 (the Arrow episode) with executive producer Marc Guggenheim.
*  *  *
“I was dealing now with a story that dealt with a different multiverse than I had done in the comic, but it was still the fun of doing that type of story line and making sure that that one worked well,” says Wolfman. “Marc was just utterly incredible to work with. I was thrilled.”
*  *  *
.... Wolfman planned on killing Supergirl from the beginning, but it was DC who asked that the Flash meet his end as well.

“We had worked up a list of characters who we thought should die,” Woflman recalls. “It sounds horrible talking about it in that fashion now. Flash was not on that list. Supergirl was number one on that list because as we were going to revive Superman and make him a stronger character for 1986 onward, we wanted Superman to be the sole survivor of Krypton. So Supergirl was definitely on the list and we were surprised that DC had no problem with that. The Flash I was asked to put in, and I really didn’t want to because I thought of him as the character who initiated the Silver Age of comics. But they wanted it.”
*  *  *
While fans remember the big deaths and other dramatic moments, Wolfman’s favorite scene is Supergirl and Batgirl’s heart-to-heart at the beginning of issue #4. “It worked as a character piece really powerfully because you generally don’t see superheroes doubting each other or doubting what they’re capable of doing,” Wolfman says. It was a really strong personal moment between two of the female characters, and it was a really good way to just tying in with where we were going to go in two or three issues.”
*  *  *
Though Wolfman and Pérez are proud of the entire book, there are a few things they would change if they could. For Wolfman, he would have liked to keep his original ending. When he first pitched the book, none of the characters were supposed to remember the Crisis, but in the finished product several characters remember, including Psycho Pirate.

“My view was if you are trying to create a universe without any of the complications of the confusion, you should create that new universe of nobody remembered what had preceded it,” Wolfman says. “But that was overruled. We made it as strong as possible by just having a small number of characters remember.”

Wolfman also would have increased the size of each book. “George’s artwork is so incredible that I wish we were able to have twice as many pages but no more story, so that he could draw bigger pictures and we could see how much more beautiful it is,” he says. “I think it’s the best stuff of his career, and best of mine. It’s so strong. I would just love people to see it, to have seen it [on] full pages rather than 30 panels on a page, or 100 characters in a panel, just to show off his work.”

Pérez agrees with the sentiment, because he would’ve been able to fit in even more characters in....

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

What to Watch on Tuesday: Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow conclude the Crisis on Infinite Earths
By EW Staff January 14, 2020
https://ew.com/tv/2020/01/14/what-to-watch-tuesday-cw-crisis-finale-arrow-legends-of-tomorrow/ 

Quote

The conclusion of this year’s epic Arrowverse crossover “Crisis on Infinite Earths” is here. “I think this will be, especially the Arrow episode, huge,” DC’s Legends of Tomorrow star Caity Lotz, who plays Sara Lance/White Canary, tells EW. “When [we were] out there shooting the big battle scene and looking at the monitors there, it looked pretty epic.” Following the destruction of the multiverse in Part 3, Part 4 finds the surviving heroes disheartened and stuck at the Vanishing Point. “At the start of it, it’s been wearing on everybody,” says Lotz. “I don’t think [Sara is] necessarily the one holding it together there. I think they’re all struggling and tensions are high. But Sara definitely ends up stepping into a leader position and calling the shots.” Meanwhile, the Legends episode, which is the crossover’s finale, is loads of fun. “It definitely has some Legends flavor,” says Lotz. “To put these characters, who are so used to being serious about everything and [think] everything is the end of the world, into a Legends situation, it’s fun watching [them] adapt to it and try to figure it out because it’s not what they’re used to.” —Chancellor Agard

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Interview: Caity Lotz Talks the Crisis on Infinite Earths Finale and What It Means for Legends
By Jessica Mason  Jan 13th, 2020
https://www.themarysue.com/interview-caity-lotz-crisis-on-infinite-earths-legends/

Quote

So, Sara is the lone Legend left standing as we go into the crossover. How is she feeling?
Not great! It’s definitely a huge challenge for Sara. And I think not having Oliver as she’s used to … she’s kind of more on her own than she’s ever been before. And processing and dealing with that is definitely a challenge for her.

Sara was revealed as the Paragon of Destiny in the first half of the crossover. We didn’t really get into much of what that means for her, emotionally. Is she scared of that role or is has she accepted it like some of the other aspects of her fate? 
Sara is used to curveballs being thrown at her and I think it was in season two of Legends—she had to wield the spear of destiny which was like a huge responsibility and temptation, so I feel like at this point Sara’s just like “eff it! And see what happens!”

How are the other Paragons getting along as we find them in these final hours? Is there any tension on the team? Ryan Choi (Osric Chau)  has a pretty great beard going in the promo pictures, so I assume some time has passed. 
Yeah, there’s a lot of time that has passed and the have been stuck in this place for a minute. And I think one of the biggest things that they’re wrestling with is hopelessness because everything that they’ve tried to do, do nothing is working, and they’re not really seeing any way out of it.

We’ve also got a super-villain that’s wormed his way onto this team. How are things going with Lew Luthor (Jon Cryer) there in the mix?
Supergirl (Melissa Benoist) has some very strong feelings about him and it definitely makes everything a little bit more challenging. You never know if you can trust him or not.
*  *  *
What’s Sara’s dynamic with the other members of the team? She’s not really close with any of these people except for maybe Barry (Grant Gustin).
You know I think … she had known Barry for a while, but—we didn’t ever have many scenes with Barry and Sara, I feel like it was always Sara and Oliver. In this crisis, Sara and Barry, I think, build more of a friendship, which is really nice. And it was nice to have some more scenes with Grant. I really enjoyed working with him
*  *  *
So it sounds like the ramifications of Crisis are going to echo into Legends season five.
It actually affects all the shows, what happens in the finale.

You mentioned Sarah’s closest relationship here with Oliver. How is she going to react to seeing Oliver in this new role as Specter?
It’s hard for her, cause she wants her Oliver back. She wants Ollie: the one she grew up with, her childhood friend, the one that knows her and they have all these memories. And this version of Oliver isn’t quite the same. I think it’s hard for her to deal with, but I think at the same time it’s better than no Oliver at all. And Oliver Queen is the last person that knows Sara—her old life—being a part of a real world, rather than just traveling through time. He was the anchor to the real world.

Edited by tv echo
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Lantern7

Lantern7

Since when does a Monitor have a wife? 🤔🤔🤔

I gotta remind myself everything ends tonight. Also, that LoT is back. Is it a rule that the series usually has to pick up the final chapter of crossovers? (Elseworlds excluded, of course)

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Trini

Trini

I've got similar thoughts: 'How Should CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths End Compared to Comic?'

Quote

... Given all this, I worry that Crisis on Infinite Earth won’t have any significant, lasting changes beyond the end of Arrow, and that will be a bummer. The original Crisis comics changed the DC universe on a massive scale, merging continuities, rearranging history, updating characters, and more, but there’s just not much for the Arrowverse to clean up other than setting all the shows on a single Earth. It would be awesome if Crisis did shake up the various series, changing up some origins, bringing some characters back to life (looking at you, Wentworth Miller’s Captain Cold), perhaps killing off a few others (looking very very hard at you, Chris Wood’s Mon-El, who is very unfortunately rumored to be coming back to Supergirl later this year), and maybe redoing some origins and backstories, just for the hell of it.

 

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Trini

Trini

And from our own Primetimer: 'Will Crisis on Infinite Earths Have Any Lasting Impact on the Arrowverse?'

Quote

The Arrowverse's annual crossovers are usually a lot of fun and often highlights of each season. At the same time, they're also frequently irrelevant to the ongoing plotlines for any of the participating shows. The higher an event like Crisis on Infinite Earths raises the stakes for its heroes (the destruction of the entire multiverse!), the harder it is to take seriously. Locations like Central City, Star City, National City, Gotham, and Freeland can't be destroyed forever, or it would mean the end of the respective series set in those locations, and we already know that's not happening. The fact that, aside from Arrow, all of the franchise's shows are confirmed to continue effectively spoils the end of Crisis. The Earth must inevitably be restored and spared from destruction — or at least, one Earth must.

 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Honestly surprised they didn’t want to keep that a surprise. I’m now looking forward to tonight’s episodes ...

If she is showing up they probably did want to keep it a secret, but Caity doesn't seem to care about spoilers very much since she posted a pretty big spoiler about Mia from the series finale during filming, LOL.

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Featherhat

Featherhat

18 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

If she is showing up they probably did want to keep it a secret, but Caity doesn't seem to care about spoilers very much since she posted a pretty big spoiler about Mia from the series finale during filming, LOL.

Yeah, with that Mia one I was all "but would CL really spoil something pretty big??!" and the answer was yes, definitely. They kept it a secret longer than Tom "just visiting friends on the set" Ellis. Though for her it would be more plausible that she was just visiting friends I assume she does have a cameo. I'm not surprised really for maximum Arrow angst, especially if tonight does involve the cabin and baby Mia it would be weird for her to have just popped out to the store. 

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

  • Author

If that’s Mia’s room Sara bursts into then a Felicity cameo makes sense. The only thing that can calm my desire for all the Sara/Oliver friendship scenes is Sara/Felicity friendship scenes so I hope she shows up to give me my crumbs. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

As far as we know Emily didn't film during the crossover, so if she is in the crossover, her scenes would've had to have been filmed during 8x10. So I don't think this picture indicates whether or not she'll be in it either way. I wouldn't be remotely surprised if she isn't, and I wouldn't be surprised if she showed up for a few seconds in a cameo or in a scene that sets up whatever storyline's going to be happening in the finale. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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way2interested

way2interested

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

As far as we know Emily didn't film during the crossover, so if she is in the crossover, her scenes would've had to have been filmed during 8x10. So I don't think this picture indicates whether or not she'll be in it either way. I wouldn't be remotely surprised if she isn't, and I wouldn't be surprised if she showed up for a few seconds in a cameo or in a scene that sets up whatever storyline's going to be happening in the finale. 

For sure. If she is in the crossover, she likely filmed that day, so maybe it's a tease that she's in it in general, I hope. Just scene-wise, I don't think that that picture is a Sara-Felicity scene in the crossover. 

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bmoore4026

bmoore4026

(edited)

Time to nag.  Did they have to get rid of the Anti-Monitor by shrinking him?  I mean, I know they didn't have the money that it would have cost to have Superman obliterating the Anti-Monitor with one punch, but seriously, shrinking!?  Oh, My God, what a weak way to end a big crossover.

Edited by bmoore4026
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