Crisis On Infinite Earths 2019: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Their Story

[statsgirl]

5 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

  Hide contents

In the tie in comics Wally, her own brother died saving Barry. 

Honestly knowing what happens in the tie-in comics they should have made changed to how Iris was reacting to all the deaths. It should have more of an impact. 

They should have for the sake of the overall punch of the storyline but I'm  not surprised, the writing for Iris has always been terrible, the worst of any regular character in the shows now that they've got Laurel right. She's 90% about Barry, 6% about Joe and 3% about Wally with 1% about everything else. Even when Oliver died, her reaction was about how Barry was feeling.

I keep wanting them to Nellie Bly her so she'll finally have something of her own.

[apinknightmare]

9 hours ago, tv echo said:

Spoiler

They trail him through the multiverse, finally catching up to him on Earth-D, a world created by Wolfman and the late artist Paul Ryan in Legends of the DC Universe: Crisis on Infinite Earths in 1999. It's there that Outkast takes aim at Barry Allen, but before The Flash can be struck down, Wally West runs in front of Outkast's antimatter beam, vanishing into thin air and seemingly dying. Certainly that's the way Barry reacts, and at no point for the rest of the issue does anyone say anything to suggest that there is an alternative working theory.

Hopefully that gets undone in the second installment of the comic, because if it doesn't and it's never mentioned, that's...yikes!

[Starfish35]

27 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Hopefully that gets undone in the second installment of the comic, because if it doesn't and it's never mentioned, that's...yikes!

I’m assuming it will be undone, because 

Spoiler

Keiynan Lonsdale is scheduled to return later in the second half of The Flash’s season.

[Starfish35]

Final Live+SD ratings for the first three episodes of Crisis (from Spotted Ratings)

• Part I - 0.65, 1.668 million.
• Part II - 0.60, 1.704 million.
• Part III - 0.65, 1.727 million.

[BaggythePanther]

12 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

  Reveal spoiler

In the tie in comics Wally, her own brother died saving Barry. 

Honestly knowing what happens in the tie-in comics they should have made changed to how Iris was reacting to all the deaths. It should have more of an impact. 

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

They should have for the sake of the overall punch of the storyline but I'm  not surprised, the writing for Iris has always been terrible, the worst of any regular character in the shows now that they've got Laurel right. She's 90% about Barry, 6% about Joe and 3% about Wally with 1% about everything else. Even when Oliver died, her reaction was about how Barry was feeling.

I keep wanting them to Nellie Bly her so she'll finally have something of her own.

I think the problem more so is that Iris is rarely allowed to show emotional vulnerability. It’s been especially bad this season on The Flash. Her husband (supposedly) had less than six months to live and she spent those months trying to establish her newspaper, but wasn’t shown grieving for the potential loss of her husband. The crossover was the most emotion she shown all season. And even then she was only emotional with Barry, she didn’t have much of a chance to react to the destruction around her. Let Iris show her feelings.

[Trini]

There's been a lot of deaths throughout the crossover, everyone should have feelings about that; but the only ones who have really gotten to react to it are Kara, E-1 Clark, Jefferson Pierce, Routh!Superman? and... if there are more I'm blanking on them. It's especially glaring that Barry, as one of the leads, hasn't really had a say about it; and especially Oliver's death.

[Primal Slayer]

So they bring in Wally just to kill him before the great wipeout of E1? And then dont have Iris or Barry react to it? Ok....

[tv echo]

You can read 8 comic pages from COIE Giant #1 in this tweet thread (courtesy of this Felicity fan)...

Edited December 16, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

'Crisis on Infinite Earths': Ranking the Wildest Crossover Cameos
DECEMBER 09, 2019 10:15am PT by Liz Shannon Miller
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/crisis-infinite-earths-ranking-wildest-crossover-cameos-1260482

17. Wil Wheaton
16. Stephen Lobo
15. Jon Cryer
14. Griffin Newman
13. Ashley Scott
12. John Wesley Shipp
11. The Titans
10. Osric Chau
9. Wentworth Miller
8. Tom Ellis
7. Brandon Routh
6. Burt Ward
5. Robert Wuhl
4. Erica Durance
3. Tom Welling
2. Ace the Bathound
1. Kevin Conroy

Edited December 16, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

More spoilers about COIE Giant #1 from these ComicBook articles here and here...

Spoiler

One of the great things about comics is that wild ideas that might not translate especially well to film can still look cool and believable. One example? The Arrowverse has now seen the introduction of Beppo the Super-Monkey, thanks to the Crisis On Infinite Earths 100-Page Giant #1, which is out today at Walmart stores and will hit the direct market in January. The character makes a cameo appearance on the final page of a backup story written by Arrow's Marc Guggenheim and original Crisis on Infinite Earths comic writer Marv Wolfman, with art by Tom Grummett, along with a number of alternate-universe Supermen.

Spoiler

The Lex Luthor played by Gene Hackman in Superman: The Movie makes a cameo appearance in Crisis on Infinite Earths 100-Page Giant #1, out today at Walmart stores in the U.S. The comic, which is an official and canonical tie-in to the ongoing CW crossover event, sees a number of Earths destroyed in the main story, but the backup deals with a "Council of Luthors" who have convened to try to kill all of the multiverse's Supermen, using the events of the Crisis for cover. Among a number of favorite looks from the comics, there's one guy who's absolutely the one seen in Superman: The Movie.

You can identify him here the same way you could tell that Batman v Superman's Luthor (Jesse Eisenberg) was going for a tribute in that Justice League post-credits scene: he's wearing a green suit with an ascot and a big, recognizable flower on it. And for a bonus? He shares his scene with the Jon Cryer Luthor from Supergirl, who of course played Hackman's nephew Lenny in Superman IV: The Quest For Peace.

"We have a backup story that is called 'Infinite Luthor,' and it’s basically all of the multiverse’s Luthors versus all of the multiverse’s Supermen," Guggenheim recently told ComicBook.com. "Jon Cryer’s Luthor basically gets the idea to do what he does in hour two of the crossover from that story, so it all ties together really neatly. The Superman story is really so much fun. To see all those Luthors and all this Supermen together, it’s fun for any comic book fan, but knowing how impossible that would be in live action, this is a real treat."

Edited December 16, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Should Evil Family Move? What Was 'Crisis' Plan for Other Lex? Riverdale's F.P. Is Bulletproof? And Lots More Qs!
By Team TVLine / December 13 2019,
https://tvline.com/2019/12/13/evil-should-david-make-kristen-quit-job-tv-questions/ 

Quote

6 | “Crisis” of Infinite Questions! By the end of Part 1, where was Earth-One housing the billions of refugees? (And we guess it doesn’t matter now that everyone is dead, but did anyone contact James to hop on a spaceship?) In Part 2, if Smallville alum Michael Rosenbaum had agreed to an encore, what, would Lex have suddenly not looked like Jon Cryer for that oh-so-brief Kent farm scene? And in Part 3, if the Anti-Monitor set up a treadmill failsafe that could destroy all worlds instantly… um, why not just use that to begin with?

Edited December 16, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

2019 in Review: Quotes of the Year!
By Team TVLine / December 16 2019
https://tvline.com/gallery/best-tv-quotes-2019/crisis-on-infinite-earths-paper-towel-guy-quote/  

Quote

 CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS (PART 2)

“Is that him?”

“It’s either him or the buff guy on the paper towel rolls.”

Iris (Candice Patton) and Lois (Elizabeth Tulloch) realize that, even without superstrength, Earth-167’s Clark Kent is a brawny fella

Edited December 16, 2019 by tv echo

[Trini]

So I read the COIE tie-in at Walmart, and re: Wally;

Spoiler

Seems to me like it's a combo of Guggenheim not caring about Flash characters in general, and needing to take out the most powerful hero that wasn't going to show up in the crossover anyway; because they didn't really have Wally do anything but die unnecessarily.

[Trini]

Another BTS video: 'Melissa Benoist & Ruby Rose - Worlds Finest'

[Primal Slayer]

On 12/16/2019 at 11:44 AM, Trini said:

So I read the COIE tie-in at Walmart, and re: Wally;

  Hide contents

Seems to me like it's a combo of Guggenheim not caring about Flash characters in general, and needing to take out the most powerful hero that wasn't going to show up in the crossover anyway; because they didn't really have Wally do anything but die unnecessarily.

But why even include him? Just ignore him like all the other characters they ignored.

[catrox14]

So, the more I think about it the more I think it's a different Oliver that died. I think maybe Sara knows it because I would think her reaction to Oliver's death would have been more animated.  I think somehow Sara came back through the rift and grabbed Oliver before he jumped into the pile of the ghost army and sent him somewhere else. I think the 2046 Earth 16 Oliver is the Spectre. I think Our Oliver is hidden somewhere else and he'll come back to help and that's when he dies.

[apinknightmare]

11 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

So, the more I think about it the more I think it's a different Oliver that died. I think maybe Sara knows it because I would think her reaction to Oliver's death would have been more animated.  I think somehow Sara came back through the rift and grabbed Oliver before he jumped into the pile of the ghost army and sent him somewhere else. I think the 2046 Earth 16 Oliver is the Spectre. I think Our Oliver is hidden somewhere else and he'll come back to help and that's when he dies.

Unless there's another Mia from another future who got zapped back to 2019 to spend time with another Oliver, I think the Oliver who died has to be ours. The Oliver who died knew Mia, he reiterated that Mia should find Felicity (something he told her to do before the big fight that killed him), he recognized her when she went to get him from Lian Yu. 

I think the direction for that scene was just bad all around, and it was awkwardly written with the side conversations going on while someone is lying there freaking dying lol. 

[Chris24601]

14 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

So, the more I think about it the more I think it's a different Oliver that died. I think maybe Sara knows it because I would think her reaction to Oliver's death would have been more animated.  I think somehow Sara came back through the rift and grabbed Oliver before he jumped into the pile of the ghost army and sent him somewhere else. I think the 2046 Earth 16 Oliver is the Spectre. I think Our Oliver is hidden somewhere else and he'll come back to help and that's when he dies.

Nah, it was Earth-1 Ollie who died; Earth-16 Ollie was notably older, had a robotic arm and wouldn't have known who Mia was.

Making Ollie the Spectre is their way of killing him as promised but also keeping him around (he may not be a regular, but this leaves it open for Ollie/The Spectre to return from time to time as a special guest star).

Making him the Spectre also let them play with subverting expectations. As the final act of Arrow, having Ollie go out as THE big damned hero of the crossover was probably the expectation of just about everyone in the general audience. But this let them kill him off in Act One, subverting expectations, but still have him come back and save the day in Act Four & Five as expected (thus the "playing with" part instead of a true subversion).

[catrox14]

29 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Unless there's another Mia from another future who got zapped back to 2019 to spend time with another Oliver, I think the Oliver who died has to be ours. The Oliver who died knew Mia, he reiterated that Mia should find Felicity (something he told her to do before the big fight that killed him), he recognized her when she went to get him from Lian Yu. 

I think the direction for that scene was just bad all around, and it was awkwardly written with the side conversations going on while someone is lying there freaking dying lol. 

Yeah, I thought about the Mia thing and thought maybe Earth 16 Oliver took all info about Our Oliver having a wife and children and repeated it. I thought it was strange that he said tell your mother I love her, twice, which left it vague enough that Earth 16 Oliver didn't have to remember Felicity's name.

I realize it's a long shot but I don't want Oliver to have died already and I don't really like him being a god either. I'm just finding a way for it to be not our Oliver.

[Chris24601]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I realize it's a long shot but I don't want Oliver to have died already and I don't really like him being a god either. I'm just finding a way for it to be not our Oliver.

The thing is, while they may be planning on tweaking the 2040 timeline a bit, I don't think they're going to just completely throw all the character development we saw in season seven and eight for Mia and William out the window either or else the spin-off is just new characters wearing the faces of the ones we've gotten to know over the last two years.

There's also just the pragmatic fact that neither SA nor EBR are going to be in the spin-off in any capacity so they're going to need to explain that and "see the end of season seven" is probably the most efficient in that regard.

So no, the writing's been on the wall for Earth-1 Oliver and Felicity since the end of season seven and it pretty much had to be that ending (i.e. Ollie dead/something else and Felicity off the grid raising Mia for the next 20 years before finally reuniting with Ollie on the other side of a portal) with the rest of the Arrowverse continuing onward without them.

We'll have to see what the "re-sparked" universe and then the backdoor pilot 8x09 looks like but I could still see things playing out with the re-sparked universe in such a way that season seven took place exactly as we saw it and Mia, William and Connor return to the exact moment they left (some of the incongruous elements might be flashbacks... a technique not exactly unknown to its parent series).

Even if there are some changes though (Dinah and Rene remember meeting a version of Mia from the future and so know Oliver and Felicity had a daughter, Rene keeps Zoe from becoming a Canary and they keep a lid on the Deathstroke Gang instead of the founder getting a rep for escaping repeatedly) my hunch is the core of season seven and Mia's backstory will be mostly intact for character continuity and economy of flashback usage if nothing else.

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

Lucifer boss addresses that Maze line in 'Crisis on Infinite Earths'
By Chancellor Agard December 17, 2019
https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/17/lucifer-crisis-on-infinite-earths-maze-constantine/

Quote

Lucifer‘s showrunnners are just as curious about Constantine’s (Matt Ryan) previous relationship with Lucifer (Tom Ellis) and Maze (Lesley-Ann Brandt) as you are after Ellis’ cameo in the Arrowverse’s “Crisis on Infinite Earths” crossover.

... During the exchange, which takes place before the events of Lucifer‘s pilot, the fallen angel said he was only helping them because he owed the chain-smoking occult detective for a favor he did for Maze way back when.

Although the Lucifer team did consult on the scene, it was primarily the brain-child of Flash writer and Lucifer fan Lauren Certo, who co-wrote the hour with Sterling Gates — including that line hinting at a previous devil’s bargain between Lucifer, Constantine, and Maze, which got their wheels spinning.

“I have thoughts,” Lucifer co-showrunner Joe Henderson tells EW about that piece of dialogue. “By the way, credit where credit is due: That scene, we only added two things to it. One, I pitched the flirt joke, which Tom surprised the actor who plays Diggle with. I wish we’d been covering his side because you got a great reaction from him. And then the Constantine, Constantyne [bit], that was Tom having heard about the debate from one of our writers. Other than that, that was all them [on The Flash]. And I thought they did such a wonderful job of capturing the voice, knowing how to write Lucifer, because Lauren Certo, [who] watches the show [and] is a fan of it, wrote our Lucifer, which was lovely.”
*  *  *
Henderson went on to reveal that he’s been dreaming of a Lucifer-Arrowverse crossover ever since the conclusion of last year’s Arrowverse event, “Elseworlds.”

“A year ago when they announced ‘Crisis on Infinite Earths,’ I called the executive of DC and I’m like, ‘If there are infinite earths, that means Lucifer‘s on one of them. And I don’t know if they’d already thought of it. I still haven’t actually asked Marc Guggenheim. I’ve been meaning to. I don’t know what was the chicken and the egg, but all I know is like that has been something that I’ve been wanting to do ever since I heard it happened and I can’t believe we actually did it. It’s the coolest thing,” he says.

“Joe fought very hard for that one,” says Modrovich, with Henderson adding, “It was a tricky thing to do, but it’s just awesome. When Tom and Matt Ryan got together, like they were outside their stage and they’re both like talking about the characters and what they could do, and I’m just like, ‘My mind is blowing cause Lucifer and Constantine are brainstorming a scene together and having the time of their lives.’ It was just delightful.”

Edited December 18, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The 10 Best TV Shows on Right Now: The Expanse, The L Word, and More
By Paste Staff & TV Writers  |  December 17, 2019
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/12/best-tv-shows-on-right-now-121719.html 

Quote

3. Crisis of Infinite Earths
Network: CW
Last Week’s Ranking: Honorable Mention
...
To say there was a lot of buildup to Crisis On Infinite Earths, The CW’s massive Arrowverse crossover event, would be an understatement the size of one of Mar Novu’s (LaMonica Garrett) quantum towers. The crisis itself was first teased with the series premiere of The Flash in 2014, if you want to be technical about it. But the ramp-up properly began with last year’s crossover, Elseworlds, in which Oliver Queen/Green Arrow (Stephen Amell) made some sort of mysterious deal with Garrett’s godlike figure to save the lives of Barry Allen/The Flash (Grant Gustin) and Kara Danvers/Supergirl (the invaluable Melissa Benoist, giving one of TV’s most underrated performances week in and week out) by, it seemed, sacrificing his own. But gods are often tricksters, and crises keep coming. The first three installments pulled off some Thanos-snapping-level dramatic events, incorporated both promised and surprise cameos, and gave us the gift of both a big focus on Sara Lance/White Canary (Caity Lotz) and not one but two Brandon Rouths. The first, the always welcome Ray Palmer/The Atom (like Sara Lance, of DC’s Legends of Tomorrow), was as delightful as ever. The second involved a return to the blue tights for the onetime Superman, here donning the Kingdom Come super-suit and introducing us to a grieving, graying, but somehow still hopeful Clark Kent. It’s one of the year’s best superhero performances, a terrific element in a “television event” that somehow, impossibly, lived up to the hype. Bring on the final two. —Allison Shoemaker

[tv echo]

 

[Trini]

8 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

...

There's also just the pragmatic fact that neither SA nor EBR are going to be in the spin-off in any capacity so they're going to need to explain that and "see the end of season seven" is probably the most efficient in that regard.

So no, the writing's been on the wall for Earth-1 Oliver and Felicity since the end of season seven and it pretty much had to be that ending (i.e. Ollie dead/something else and Felicity off the grid raising Mia for the next 20 years before finally reuniting with Ollie on the other side of a portal) with the rest of the Arrowverse continuing onward without them.

...

I just wonder if they could have kept Oliver alive if they weren't attempting a spin-off. I assumed that Amell and Rickards would be open to doing the occasional guest appearance, so no need to write Oliver and Felicity off completely.

[tv echo]

Edited December 19, 2019 by tv echo

[Chris24601]

9 hours ago, Trini said:

I just wonder if they could have kept Oliver alive if they weren't attempting a spin-off. I assumed that Amell and Rickards would be open to doing the occasional guest appearance, so no need to write Oliver and Felicity off completely.

Possibly, but I think Arrow would have had to have ended with season three or four for a spin-off to have not been considered (in which case Legends with Sara and Ray would have been the natural “successor”).

I think by season five (introduction of the newbs) they were already looking for another more direct spin-off, and if they had taken off then Ollie could have retired in peace (minus some guest spots), but they didn’t so they looked for something else and once they settled on OTA’s future children they also realized that Oliver would have to be “dead” to NOT be completely involved in his kids’ lives (and for similar reasons Felicity had to leave by the end of s7 and on the off chance EBR couldn’t come back for the series finale they wanted to include an Olicity reunion into it). Likewise, the rest of the modern day team was written out by the end of the season seven flash-forwards to clear the decks for FTA.

I also think some of the blame can be laid at the feet of the wider Arrowverse and that once it became a thing where the shows were regularly interconnecting then you have to explain why Oliver no longer shows up when the entire world is in peril anymore even if we aren’t seeing his day-to-day adventures anymore.

Let’s face it, the same problem is going to face the Flash crew and then Supergirl and various members of The Legends. It’s one of the reasons I think Future Team Arrow being set in 2040 isn’t an accident (also around the time a Nora 2.0 could come into her own after The Flash ends... Jon Kent would be turning about twenty then too).

Maybe if this story were in an actual comic book or an animated series where Oliver and Felicity weren’t being played by actors in the same roles for the better part of a decade now and who wouldn’t need to wear old-age makeup for every scene they’d be in for the spin-off, they could have done an ending where Ollie and Felicity happily raise their kids together.

But it’s a live action television series, so best case is what s7’s ending gave us... Oliver survived in a form that couldn’t actually come back to a normal life (now we know he’s The Spectre) and Felicity goes to him once she’s sure their kids can stand on their own.

So yeah, I guess you could blame the spin-off for Ollie’s ending, but ultimately it comes down to the larger Arrowverse and practicalities of live-action.

Heck, one of the main reasons FOR this crossover is likely about streamlining the Arrowverse to better handle these transitions (along with laying groundwork for both the FTA and Superman & Lois spin-offs just like Elseworlds was used to launch Batwoman last year and the second crossover was used to launch Legends of Tomorrow).

[tv echo]

You can read a few more comic panels from COIE Giant #1 in this Bleeding Cool article, which reveals more spoilers...

Spoiler

The first issue of Crisis on Infinite Earths Giant shows us several more Earth’s lost to the wave including one TV series it is surprising we haven’t seen referenced yet, the Wonder Woman TV show.

Earth 76 (because the first season of Wonder Woman debuted on April, 21 1976):

(Don’t anyone tell Andy Mangles … he’d probably disagree on the Earth designation … Though DC should too... ) Another Earth lost is the home to the Superman animated serials done by the Fleischer brothers, Earth-F

We also get two more universes lost: Earth-N52

Bethany Snow is our main New 52 focus character. Another Marv Wolfman created character from The New Teen Titans #22, though known mostly in the New 52 from all the Channel 52 backup features ran in the back of comics from the New 52 era. So the universe home to the New 52 relaunch, destroyed in the Arrowverse Crisis. Ironic?

And another Earth that was destroyed in the original Crisis on Infinite Earths, Earth-D

* *  *
So the list of destroyed Earths goes up by four in this comic book tie-in written by original Crisis on Infinite Earth’s author Marv Wolfman and the show runner/overseer for the Arrowverse version Mark Guggenheim.

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by tv echo

[Trini]

11 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

I also think some of the blame can be laid at the feet of the wider Arrowverse and that once it became a thing where the shows were regularly interconnecting then you have to explain why Oliver no longer shows up when the entire world is in peril anymore even if we aren’t seeing his day-to-day adventures anymore.

Let’s face it, the same problem is going to face the Flash crew and then Supergirl and various members of The Legends.

That's true; they'd want an explanation for missing heroes, I just don't know if death was necessary in this case. On the other hand, Arrow in particular doesn't seem to believe in 'happily ever afters', so things might have ended tragically either way.

Well Flash already had its excuse for missing Barry with the future newspaper headline. But we'll see if they keep doing these huge crossovers once The Flash is gone; I have my doubts.
 

11 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

Heck, one of the main reasons FOR this crossover is likely about streamlining the Arrowverse to better handle these transitions (along with laying groundwork for both the FTA and Superman & Lois spin-offs just like Elseworlds was used to launch Batwoman last year and the second crossover was used to launch Legends of Tomorrow).

Eh - even if they do merge universes, I don't think the main reason was to streamline anything since these big crossovers happen only once a year and everyone has an interdimensional extrapolator now, and they only slightly affect the individual shows. But I agree that they're using them now to set up other shows.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Trini

[Chris24601]

While I agree they might not WANT to do big crossovers much anymore, the network is kind of insisting on it now.

In an ironic twist given the source material, guest stars from the other showing is a way to boost viewership. "You don't want to miss the appearance by [Character X] when he shows up in [Comic/Show Y] so you better buy the comic tune in." Crossovers are basically that turned up to eleven.

One of the things I could see the Arrowverse showrunners doing to placate the network a bit after this though might be to do more periodic single crossover guests because it sort of accomplishes the same purpose as the crossovers on a smaller, but more frequent, scale.

So I do think part of the streamlining is simply so they don't have to worry about things like dimensional extrapolators and other bits you'd really have to have watched previous series to understand (especially once The Flash ends); particularly since they've already made a big deal of pushing Kara/Kate as a replacement for Ollie/Barry now that Arrow is ending and having them in the same universe removes a step from their teaming up from time to time.

The other half though is, like I said, jumping to 2040 with the FTA spin-off and other potential spin-offs because "twenty years have passed since the end of Arrow/The Flash/Supergirl" is an easy answer for why Ollie/Barry/Kara aren't turning up to help.

Sidebar: I suspect that the Flash and/or Supergirl will take advantage of the comic (in the comics Barry eventually reunites with Iris there and they have kids and grandkids... Bart Allen and XS are both Barry's grandkids from the 31st Century in the comics) and Justice League animated series lore respectively to send Barry/Iris and Supergirl to the 31st Century when their series end, thus conveniently removing them from showing up in future stories while still giving them a happy ever after.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised at all to see a XS/Nora 2.0 or Impulse/Barry Allen Jr. series set contemporaneously to FTA once The Flash winds down and Superman & Lois seems to be geared to preemptively take over for Supergirl once that series ends (Legends is an ensemble so could theoretically keep slowly replacing cast indefinitely, but have already ran with the meta bit of "I promised the crew no more crossovers,,, our problems are already bigger than yours" to excuse their absence).

Its clear that the Arrowverse has grown over the last eight years to be a HUGE part of the CW's brand identity and that's not going to be changing anytime soon. Because of Arrow ending with plenty of advance notice I think the showrunners are taking the long view of steps to ensure that the shared universe can survive the end of the other first generation series over the coming years.

[Trini]

7 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

...

Sidebar: I suspect that the Flash and/or Supergirl will take advantage of the comic (in the comics Barry eventually reunites with Iris there and they have kids and grandkids... Bart Allen and XS are both Barry's grandkids from the 31st Century in the comics) and Justice League animated series lore respectively to send Barry/Iris and Supergirl to the 31st Century when their series end, thus conveniently removing them from showing up in future stories while still giving them a happy ever after.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised at all to see a XS/Nora 2.0 or Impulse/Barry Allen Jr. series set contemporaneously to FTA once The Flash winds down and Superman & Lois seems to be geared to preemptively take over for Supergirl once that series ends ...

This is certainly a possibility; but I think with The Flash in particular, they don't need to have a future setting for a spinoff or even a 'next generation' show since it has always had the element of time travel. Plus, there are multiple Flashes/speedsters; they could always center a show on another one in another city. Arrow had no choice but to set the spinoff when Oliver's children were adults and juggle two timelines.

I'm not sure what they'd do for the next few spinoffs, but I'd assume that they'd prefer to have things set in the present day for simplicity's sake (since most of the shows are set in the present). However, I can also see them doing a Legion of Superheroes spinoff of Supergirl, which would be set in the future.

[way2interested]

22 minutes ago, Trini said:

Arrow had no choice but to set the spinoff when Oliver's children were adults and juggle two timelines.

I don't really consider it "no choice" when setting it as it's own spinoff was the intention of the story since day 1.

Quote

I'm not sure what they'd do for the next few spinoffs, but I'd assume that they'd prefer to have things set in the present day for simplicity's sake (since most of the shows are set in the present). However, I can also see them doing a Legion of Superheroes spinoff of Supergirl, which would be set in the future.

I think they'll focus on crossovers more like Elseworlds, where they use fewer shows and make each episode more distinct rather than the story be fully connected again. Like, Black Lightning, Stargirl, Green Arrow and the Canaries, and LoT I could easily picture sitting out (especially since for all intents and purposes Stargirl and Black Lightning aren't nearly as connected as the others) while the focus remains on Flash, Supergirl, and Batwoman (and likely Superman and Lois, especially depending on what MB decides to do with continuing the show).. 

[Trini]

Random unrelated musings:

Are they really not going to have J'onn J'onzz in his Martian form at all in this crossover? Maybe for an action scene later? It can't be that much more expensive/complicated than the other VFX stuff they're doing for this.

The Oliver+kissing (+other women) in the crossover streak continues with Sara kissing 2046 Oliver in Part 1.

I wish they'd do a blooper/gag reel for just the crossover episodes.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Trini

[tv echo]

Matt's Inside Line: Get Scoop on H50, Magnum, The Magicians, SEAL Team, Criminal Minds, Chicago Med and More!
By Matt Webb Mitovich / December 19 2019
https://tvline.com/2019/12/19/hawaii-five-0-magnum-pi-crossover-spoilers/ 

Quote

Is there anything to tease for the final two parts of “Crisis on Infinite Earths”? —Jesse

Arrowverse EP Marc Guggenheim says that à la Clark and Lois sending baby Jonathan off to safety in a pod — which purposely echoed a scene from the comic books involving a wee Alexander Luthor — “There’s an image in [Part] 4 that’s meant to be evocative of a moment in ‘Crisis'” and “a bunch of big [nods] in Part 5.”

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Edited December 20, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

All these "spark" comments from the tie-in comics and the on-air series...

The Monitor (to Felicity): "The Paragons have the ability to re-spark the multiverse should my 'brother' purge its existence. You mourn your husband, honor his legacy. See that his sacrifice was not in vain. Find Outkast. Learn the names of the Paragons."

Jim Corrigan (to Oliver): "In another life, I was a decorated police officer, a hero in my own right. But then I was called to a higher purpose. It's your turn now, Oliver. Only you can light the spark now, Oliver. It is your destiny."

And there's also this tweet (previously posted)...

Edited December 20, 2019 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

So they cut Barry from this scene and Sara took all the blame for putting Oliver in the Lazarus Pit when she was the one person against it. 

I guess Sara who has know Kara for awhile now can't have any meaningful scenes with her because she's not a known hero. They are giving Sara more to do but she's still get pushed into the background for the known heroes. For me I'd rather the Legends sit out of the crossovers. It's not like they matter that much to anyone. 

[tv echo]

Laura Vandervoort on V Wars, Smallville memories
By CJ    December 20, 2019
http://tvsneak.com/laura-vandervoort-on-v-wars-smallville-memories/ 

Quote

I thought of you just this week, actually – I was watching The CW’s ”Crisis on Infinite Earths” and wondered ‘hey! Where’s Smallville’s Supergirl?” Was there ever any talk of including your take on Clark’s Kryptonian cousin on it?

Not that I’m aware of.

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by tv echo

[lurker22]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I guess Sara who has know Kara for awhile now can't have any meaningful scenes with her because she's not a known hero. They are giving Sara more to do but she's still get pushed into the background for the known heroes. For me I'd rather the Legends sit out of the crossovers. It's not like they matter that much to anyone.

I agree. We know they're already pushing for Kate/Kara to be the next Oliver/Barry, and Barry/Kara already have an existing friendship, so the subsequent crossovers will likely focus on the new Big Three (Barry, Kara, Kate). The Legends, as usual, will be pushed to the background.

Well, Sara already promised the Legends they can sit out the crossovers, and there already is a precedent for it. I'd rather the Legends not waste an episode where they're guest stars in their own show.

[Starfish35]

On 12/15/2019 at 7:06 PM, Starfish35 said:

Final Live+SD ratings for the first three episodes of Crisis (from Spotted Ratings)

• Part I - 0.65, 1.668 million.
• Part II - 0.60, 1.704 million.
• Part III - 0.65, 1.727 million.

Live+7 Ratings (from Programming Insider)

• Part I - 1.04, 2.671 million.
• Part II - 0.97, 2.683 million.
• Part III - 1.05, 2.714 million.

 

[shantown]

7 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I guess Sara who has know Kara for awhile now can't have any meaningful scenes with her because she's not a known hero. They are giving Sara more to do but she's still get pushed into the background for the known heroes. 

4 hours ago, lurker22 said:

the subsequent crossovers will likely focus on the new Big Three (Barry, Kara, Kate).

This is why I preferred the first few crossovers, where one character just went to a different show here and there. It built meaningful relationships between the characters. Now these giant crossovers are trying to cram so many regulars and guest stars and villains and cameos and easter eggs in that there's not time for any characters to actually share meaningful scenes together. It leaves it with zero emotional impact. I really hope no matter how the universe(s) end up in January that there aren't any more crossovers of 3+ shows and they go back to little one episode/one character crossovers randomly throughout the season.

 

[tv echo]

CHYLER LEIGH Opens Upon SUPERGIRL's 'Crisis' And Real-Life Mental Health Awareness
By Kat Calamia   December 20, 2019
https://www.newsarama.com/48363-chyler-leigh-teases-crisis-consequences-for-supergirl.html 

Quote

Nrama: Speaking of “Crisis”, we are halfway through and Supergirl (and your) Earth hare [sic] gone. Can you say anything about what's to come? Do you know?

Leigh: Nobody does well, as the name suggests, and the whole history of “Crisis on Infinite Earths”, how it goes is that everything falls apart. It's a matter of getting to square one in a lot of ways and trying to figure out how to navigate all that chaos when there's so much out of control. But an opportunity for all of these heroes to come together.

It’s hilarious when you have us all in one room because all you hear is leather walking around. It's like all different variations of squeak and whatever other noises that can be made from the suits. It looks like a Halloween parade, but it's fantastic to have all these people and all these characters come together. It’s absolute mayhem when we're filming. It's a logistical nightmare just to be honest.

But what comes of it, it's so exciting, especially for the fans, but also for us. It’s like a little high school reunion when we get to see each other go, “Hey, how's it going?” Just realizing what we do is so important. As silly as it may seem, in the midst of it, what we're doing is so important and the fact that so many people love what we're doing and can identify in one way, shape, or form with a storyline or a character. It makes the chaos all worth it.
*  *  *
Nrama: One of my favorite things about the show is Alex’s relationship with Kara. Are we going to see more sisterly moments this season?

Leigh: 100%. Melissa and I are always very adamant about pushing for that because that is the heartbeat of the show. An episode where we don't get to work together - it's kind of like awe or episodes when we have to like fight or argue, it's like, aw. But, yes, definitely we're going to see more of that sisterly bond and working together. And things are definitely shaken up after the “Crisis”. Some pretty serious stuff goes down, but they're always their number one support system.
...
I will say I went to go see Frozen 2 - took my girls, my husband and I took our daughters to go see it. And I've never seen more likeness to two characters, well to four characters than Elsa, Anna, Kara, and Alex. The whole time I'm just sitting here going, "Oh my God, this is hilarious." So, take DC to crossover with Disney, I think we had a super Frozen experience. It's pretty awesome.

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Best TV Episodes of 2019
Chris Longo Alec Bojalad Kayti Burt Nick Harley Daniel Kurland Lacy Baugher Michael Ahr David Crow Mike Cecchini  Dec 20, 2019
https://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/285040/best-tv-episodes-of-2019 

Quote

Crisis on Infinite Earths Parts 1-3
Are we cheating by including three episodes as one entry here? Maybe. Do we care? Not even a little bit.

The original Crisis on Infinite Earths is the prototype for the line wide comic book crossover event. Everything that has ever kept casual fans from getting into comics, but that comics fans profess to love, is present and accounted for: more characters packed into a page than you could possibly keep track of; a story that makes no sense if you don’t have the equivalent of a law degree in DC Universe history; and a universe-threatening “nothing will ever be the same” ethos that could theoretically be undone whenever the narrative (or sales) demand it. But it’s also a timeless, cosmic tale of heroes making the ultimate sacrifice in the face of impossible odds and a seemingly all-powerful villain. For 30 years, the thought of a Crisis on Infinite Earths movie seemed even beyond the realm of dorm room bong hit fantasy. But a Crisis on Infinite Earths TV show? Yeah, they somehow did it.

It took seven seasons of Arrow, four seasons of Supergirl, five seasons of The Flash, four seasons of Legends of Tomorrow, and two seasons of Black Lightning to get us here (not to mention freshman drama Batwoman) but the Arrowverse found a way to make this most impossible of superhero epics work on screen. By making the stakes matter for the leads of all their shows, the Arrowverse moved beyond the novelty factor of their annual crossovers. And by bringing in stars of other DC TV shows and movies from years gone by for cameos (hi Robert Wuhl and Burt Ward!) or more substantial roles with integral stories (Brandon Routh’s sublime return as Superman and the great John Wesley Shipp giving his 1990s TV version of Barry Allen the sendoff he deserved), the first three parts of Crisis on Infinite Earths made us believe, even in this era of superhero saturation, that anything is truly possible in the multiverse.

And there’s still two episodes left in January. Holy moley.

- Mike Cecchini

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Crisis On Infinite Earths Is Adapting Green Arrow's Best Story
Matt Morrison   Dec. 21, 2019
https://screenrant.com/crisis-infinite-earths-green-arrow-story-comic-quiver/ 

Quote

The Arrowverse event Crisis on Infinite Earths seems to be taking inspiration from Green Arrow: Quiver, which is widely considered to be the best Green Arrow storyline of all time. While not a note-for-note adaptation of the classic comic book miniseries, Crisis seems to share more elements with Quiver than coincidence could account for.
*  *  *

The quest to reunite Oliver Queen's soul and body also lay at the heart of Green Arrow: Quiver. Originally published in Green Arrow #1-10 in 2001, the story was written by filmmaker Kevin Smith to bring Oliver Queen back to life and restore him to a prominent place in the pantheon of DC Comics' heroes. Oliver Queen had originally sacrificed himself to save the people of Metropolis from a terrorist attack in the Where Angels Fear To Tread storyline in 1995.

The plot of Quiver centered around a mysteriously resurrected Green Arrow, who had no memory of the past few years of his life or his death. Eventually it was revealed that the new Green Arrow was a hollow; a body without a soul, which possessed the memories of Oliver Queen up to a certain point. This "hollow Ollie" had been created by Oliver's best friend, Hal Jordan, who tried to resurrect his fallen friend using the cosmic power he acquired as Parallax, before going on to sacrifice himself to save the Earth in the Final Night event. The two friends would meet again in the afterlife, along with their friend Barry Allen, as Hal Jordan (who had taken over the mantle of The Spectre by this time) attempted to fix his mistake and convince the departed Oliver to return to Earth to inhabit the hollow body.

Beyond the resurrection storyline, Quiver is also notable for introducing the character of Mia Dearden; a homeless youth whom Oliver Queen adopted and eventually trained as the second Speedy. Mia Dearden inspired both the character of Thea Deareden Queen (Oliver's younger sister on Arrow) and Mia Smoak, the daughter who is taking up the Green Arrow mantle for herself as part of Crisis on Infinite Earths. It may be a bit convoluted in its execution, but Arrow has finally adopted the greatest Green Arrow story ever for the Arrowverse.

Edited December 21, 2019 by tv echo

[Trini]

I really wonder why they didn't have a cameo of Rachel Skarsten as Dinah from Birds of Prey. It seems to me  like it would have been even easier to arrange than Routh as Superman again.

 

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

I really wonder why they didn't have a cameo of Rachel Skarsten as Dinah from Birds of Prey. It seems to me  like it would have been even easier to arrange than Routh as Superman again.

 

Because Arrowverse actors playing dopplegangers is only for Ray/Oliver....dont want to make to much sense. Same reason why she and Huntress should've featured more in the story for Batwoman.

[tv echo]

This is an interesting review of the first three hours of COIE...

“Crisis on Infinite Earths” Is an Endearingly Clumsy Love Letter to DC’s Television Legacy
By Randy Dankievitch  December 11, 2019
https://goombastomp.com/crisis-on-infinite-earths-review/ 

Quote

Unfortunately, it gets worse before it gets better: once we get all the heroes arranged, we get a lame-ass fight scene where the heroes (Supergirl, The Flash, Green Arrow, Atom, White Canary, Superman, and Batwoman) battle against some terrible CGI demons. It is easily the low point of all three hours, a clumsily-executed scene that utterly fails in providing any sense of urgency to the larger story (The Monitor’s nemesis killing off entire planets and realities with a massive wave of anti-matter, in case you were wondering).

It’s strange, because the fight scene ostensibly serves as the kicking off point for the whole crossover: and boy, is it awkward when it tries to make the CGI ghost fight the moment Oliver sacrifices himself to save the universe (or does he?). It’s a halting way to end Part 1, after a herky-jerky hour with a few choice cameos (including Griffin Newman as a trivia host, and Wil Wheaton as a protestor) and a lot of sci-fi mumbo jumbo establishing the stakes of the anti-matter wave.

“Crisis on Infinite Earths (Part 2)” is really where the crossover comes to life; both as a contained story, and a cumulative celebration of the strange, long legacy of mixed DC media. Batwoman travels to a parallel Earth to visit an embittered Batman (played by longtime Batman voice actor Kevin Conroy), Sara Lance gives Jonah Hex his signature scar outside a Lazarus Pit, and there’s an extended cameo of Tom Welling and Erica Durance as the OG The CW Clark and Lois; though all of those things are exactly as ludicrous and self-indulgent as they sound, the more Part 2 – and as a byproduct, Part 3 – bounce around worlds to visit iconic characters (and performers) from its past, the more powerful it becomes as a true crossover event.
*  *  *
The sheer audacity of “Crisis on Infinite Earths” is, frankly, incredible to watch: while it doesn’t always work, it makes both Parts 2 and 3 utterly fascinating to dissect. It is Justice League by way of Into the Spider-Verse and Avengers: Endgame, as clumsy and endearing as that sounds; at times, it utterly fails to make its universe-ending narrative hold any actual weight, but it is an emotional powerhouse of iconic, often underappreciated performances in DC’s television history (I swear to God, if they bring in Linda Hamilton for a Wonder Woman cameo, I’ll lose my shit).

If we’re being honest, it’s more interesting in its construction than it is in execution: after ingesting 200+ episodes of DC television over the years, I hold no expectations for “Crisis on Infinite Earths” to ever capture the immense dramatic potential of its narrative.
*  *  *
That’s just not what DC television is good at (save for a couple of seasons of Arrow, and most of Legends of Tomorrow) : where these shows shine is their heartfelt depictions of human connection, of the beauty in finding shared purpose. At that, “Crisis on Infinite Earths” is a pretty resounding success; whether Batwoman and Supergirl’s young friendship, or Barry’s tunnel-visioned optimism, “Crisis on Infinite Earths” proves the DC universe still has engaging stories to tell with the biggest stars of the present – and with characters like Kate Kane, Jefferson Pierce, and Ryan Choi (introduced in Part 3, in what appears to possibly be establishing a new Atom), the future.
*  *  *
In what appears to be his swan song (knowing that he is departing Legends of Tomorrow), Brandon Routh’s double-duty as Ray Palmer and Superman (reprising his role from Superman Returns) is wonderful.
*  *  *
We forever stan Sara Lance; to see her guide and organize the team in Part 1 and Part 2… well, it’s just beautiful to see.
*  *  *
It is still hard to believe Jon Cryer as Lex Luthor.

There are hints of the theme from the 1989 Batman film in Blake Neely’s score, which is just fucking insane.[.quote]

Edited December 22, 2019 by tv echo

[Trini]

Another short BTS featurette; this time Kevin Conroy:

 

[Lantern7]

I forgot to mention I got this sketch from Kristen Gudsnuk (Henchgirl, Modern Fantasy, Making Friends) at a comic show last weekend.

In other news, I think that I could probably afford a set of eyes from Jim Lee. And maybe a nose. That might be pushing my luck.

[way2interested]

Press release for part 4 and part 5

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/12/arrow-episode-808-crisis-on-infinite.html

Quote

TUESDAY, JANUARY 14
ARROW

“Crisis on Infinite Earths: Part Four” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, LV)
(HDTV)

OLIVER HAS BECOME SOMETHING ELSE IN PART FOUR OF “CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS.” EPISODE PENNED BY MARV WOLFMAN & MARC GUGGENHEIM – Stuck in the Vanishing Point, the Paragons search for a way to escape. The futility of the situation is compounded by The Flash’s (guest star Grant Gustin) disappearance. However, hope appears in the form of Oliver (Stephen Amell), who reveals that he has become something else. Meanwhile, the origin stories for The Monitor (guest star LaMonica Garrett) and Anti-Monitor are revealed. Glen Winter directed the episode written by Marv Wolfman & Marc Guggenheim (#808). Original airdate 1/14/2020.

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/12/legends-of-tomorrow-episode-501-crisis.html

Quote

DC’S LEGENDS OF TOMORROW
“Crisis on Infinite Earths: Part Five” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV)
(HDTV)

THE EARTH-SHATTERING “CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS” CROSSOVER CONCLUDES – “Worlds lived, worlds died.  Nothing will ever be the same.”  Gregory Smith directed the episode written by Keto Shimizu and Ubah Mohamed (#508).  Original airdate 1/14/2020.

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by way2interested