S01.E07: Falling

[peach]

6 minutes ago, Schmolioot said:

Something interesting that the show hasn’t dwelled on but is interesting nonetheless is how Wind Gap is kind of a town out of time. It’s almost a feudal lordship.

There don’t seem to be any democratic institutions. No Mayor or city council that we’re shown (and usually the small town mayor is a character in stories like this). Somebody is paying Vickery and the deputies but Adora seems to have the power to fire him herself.

The town has internet but it’s nowhere near as central or ubiquitous as it should be in 2018. No one has mentioned checking the murdered girls social media. We’ve seen a lot of teenagers getting together and no one has mentioned Instagram or Twitter. Camille has followed Amma to a hog farm but has never appeared to have considered checking her Facebook to see what she’s been up to. Ashley mentions wanting to be in the paper several times but no girl her age would care about that. They want to be viral.

In fact, I’m pretty sure that the only place we’ve seen a television was at the wine mom’s house where they were watching beaches. We’ve seen several teenagers rooms and I don’t  recall seeing a single tv, computer or video game. Stuff almost all kids have at least one of now.

Moreover, the citizens don’t seem to make use of any service beyond the borders of the town. All Jackie had to do to help was make one call to child protective services. Wind Gap May be an insulated community but they’re part of a county and state where there are laws and departments and bureaucracies that are there to handle these situations. But she doesn’t even seem to have considered this bare minimum step

Its just very odd and I wish it had been explored more

I was typing at the same time as you, touching on the same idea!  Yes to all of your post.

It's like the town is literally under Adora's spell.

[Schmolioot]

2 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Wide use of modern media would probably ruin the claustrophobic mood the show is going for. That said, I think the kid who saw the Woman in White taking Ann was watching TV, and Amma's peers were sharing Camille's first article via social media, which pissed Amma off, because she was the last to know. 

Very true, but it’s still odd.

The Crellins have an $80,000 stereo but no flat screen? They’re very wealthy but never bought Amma a computer or an Xbox?

But you’re right about the mood. I just wish it had been out there a little more. Something almost supernatural about it

[Misstify]

I wonder if Amma enticed Camille into taking various drugs that night with the hope she would get a hangover (or feel ill in some way), thus prompting Adora to get out the blue bottle and alert Camille to what was going on.  A cry for help.  Or, failing that, Camille would feel ill and be "taken care of" by Adora's blue bottle and not be able to leave town the next day.  Camille refused the blue bottle and left the house; Adora took Amma's second phone; and the laptop seems to be out of commission.  I have a feeling Amma is going to do something desperate to try to get Camille's attention now.  I have no idea how this relates to the murders of Anne and Natalie.

[bijoux]

I think that was Amma's twisted version of bonding. They'd get wasted together and then momma would take care of them together. In a sick way, it's actually sort of generous of Amma, who is obviously not a sharer, but now she's willing to share Adora's attention with Camille.

[Schmolioot]

5 minutes ago, peach said:

I was typing at the same time as you, touching on the same idea!  Yes to all of your post.

It's like the town is literally under Adora's spell.

Yes, exactly 

Even the scene where Amma snuck into Camille’s room was weird. It wasn’t that she didn’t know the password on the laptop, it almost looked like she didn’t know how to turn it on or how to use it.

Maybe it was just that it had no power but it was just very weird to me

[iMonrey]

Two things confused me:

At the end when Camille is on the phone with her boss sobbing hysterically she says "it was my mother" or "my mother did it." Is she implying her mother not only killed Marion, but also Natalie and Anne? Or is she only talking about Marion, but perhaps her boss is confused, because she's down there to investigate the murders of Natalie and Anne, not her own sister's death. I don't know . . . she had some sort vision or flashback of her mother being the "woman in white" and beckoning to her (or someone) at the edge of the woods. It's so hard to tell on this show what's real, what's a flashback, and what's a dream.

Also: after John is taken away, one of the cops asks the Sheriff what to do "about the girl" (Camille, I assume). Is he implying she might have done something illegal and should be arrested? What crime has Camille committed, if any? John was of age and she wasn't on the run with him or anything. Do they think they can make a case of obstructing justice just on the basis of her being with him while they were looking for him? That's a stretch. 

[peach]

Here's the quote from the director of It Follows.  I think Wind Gap is very like this.

Quote

In an interview with The AV Club, writer/director David Robert Mitchell discusses the origin of the story being a recurring nightmare of his from childhood:

I’d had this idea for a long time. It came from a nightmare that I had as a kid—this basic idea of being followed by something that can look like different people and only I could see it. It was very slow and always coming for me.

Because of this, he wanted to keep the timeframe ambiguous, while also making the events seem a little dream-like. When asked by The AV Club about the time period and "shell-phone" shown in the movie, Mitchell had this to say:

There are production design elements from the ’50s on up to modern day. A lot of it is from the ’70s and ’80s. That e-reader cell phone—or “shell phone”—you’re talking about is not a real device. It’s a ’60s shell compact that we turned into a cell phone e-reader. So I wanted modern things, but if you show a specific smartphone now, it dates it. It’s too real for the movie. It would bother me anyway. So we made one up. And all of that is really just to create the effect of a dream—to place it outside of time, and to make people wonder about where they are. Those are things that I think happen to us when we have a dream.

Again, this might not be intentional, but it does add to the unease.  I think in the case of this show, it's a lot about how Adora demands things stay the same way, whether it's the maid, Calhoun Day, or her young children.  One of the reasons she hates Camille is that Camille is real. 

It occurs to me now that beyond the Munchausen thing, she also wants to remain the eternal young mother, and she's not young anymore if she has adult children.  So they have to die.  I have a friend with an extremely narcissistic mother, and she laments loudly and frequently that he now has a gray goatee, and how does that make HER look??  To have a child old enough to have a gray goatee.  Like, who cares, lady?!

[Schmolioot]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

Two things confused me:

At the end when Camille is on the phone with her boss sobbing hysterically she says "it was my mother" or "my mother did it." Is she implying her mother not only killed Marion, but also Natalie and Anne? Or is she only talking about Marion, but perhaps her boss is confused, because she's down there to investigate the murders of Natalie and Anne, not her own sister's death. I don't know . . . she had some sort vision or flashback of her mother being the "woman in white" and beckoning to her (or someone) at the edge of the woods. It's so hard to tell on this show what's real, what's a flashback, and what's a dream.

Also: after John is taken away, one of the cops asks the Sheriff what to do "about the girl" (Camille, I assume). Is he implying she might have done something illegal and should be arrested? What crime has Camille committed, if any? John was of age and she wasn't on the run with him or anything. Do they think they can make a case of obstructing justice just on the basis of her being with him while they were looking for him? That's a stretch. 

She was absolutely aiding and abetting. She knew John had a warrant out for him and not only didn’t alert the police of his whereabouts but actively sheltered him

[peachmangosteen]

Quote

I didn't hear the you bit. I only heard the room stinks and he knows that smell. I gathered he was talking about the smell of sex.

I'm pretty sure he said you. That was when I decided I was done with him.

Edited August 20, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[Cyranetta]

Quote

but what did you notice? It was a surprise to me, despite being an avid VC Andrews reader as a kid.

I can't say I specifically noticed MBP, but I had a presentiment of it in the early episodes. I think it's primarily because every medical show and police procedural will feature an MPB episode at some point in the run, and the combination of Marian's unspecified lingering illness and Adora's calamitous self-centeredness seemed like a natural fit for MBP.

I had a slightly different take on Camille's "tryst" with John Keene. Although there may have been an urge for healing for heself, to me it seemed to start out with an impulse of kindheartedness on Camille's part, an impulse to comfort. Whether it was Jackie's influence during her childhood or her editor's influence later, the generosity of spirit hasn't yet been entirely swamped by the alcoholism or chewed to bits by her mother's horrifically sweet malice or the rest of Wind Gap "culture."

[wovenloaf]

12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Also: after John is taken away, one of the cops asks the Sheriff what to do "about the girl" (Camille, I assume). Is he implying she might have done something illegal and should be arrested? What crime has Camille committed, if any? John was of age and she wasn't on the run with him or anything. Do they think they can make a case of obstructing justice just on the basis of her being with him while they were looking for him? That's a stretch. 

Even if they didn't want to arrest her, they could have just wanted to question her.  Which I think would have been a reasonable response to finding the reporter covering the murders with the guy they just arrested for the murders.  Especially since she knew they were looking for him.  (I don't really fault her for not turning him in...but I can see how the situation would warrant some questions.)

[Schmolioot]

22 minutes ago, peach said:

Here's the quote from the director of It Follows.  I think Wind Gap is very like this.

Again, this might not be intentional, but it does add to the unease.  I think in the case of this show, it's a lot about how Adora demands things stay the same way, whether it's the maid, Calhoun Day, or her young children.  One of the reasons she hates Camille is that Camille is real. 

It occurs to me now that beyond the Munchausen thing, she also wants to remain the eternal young mother, and she's not young anymore if she has adult children.  So they have to die.  I have a friend with an extremely narcissistic mother, and she laments loudly and frequently that he now has a gray goatee, and how does that make HER look??  To have a child old enough to have a gray goatee.  Like, who cares, lady?!

Excellent find. And much like It Follows, no one here is acting with the required urgency for the situation.

The murder investigation seemed to be more of a nuisance to Vickery than a huge priority as it should be in such a small town.

And I mentioned this in an earlier post but Camille’s complete lack or urgency or action in what is clearly an emergency situation just flooded me. She now knows that Adora killed Marion and she just saw Amma sick under mysterious circumstances that morning. This is an extreme emergency situation that Amma needs to be taken away from immediately. But she does nothing. She even seems to drive around aimlessly for hours, not arriving home until it’s pitch black. She doesn’t call protective services. She doesn’t tell her editor. She doesn’t do anything. I don’t doubt that she cares about Amma and wants to help but she takes no steps.

Even Richard. He’s a police officer and a mandatory reporter. He does nothing. There is more than enough reasonable suspicion to have Amma removed temporarily. Why doesn’t he do anything?

[Penman61]

58 minutes ago, Schmolioot said:

Something interesting that the show hasn’t dwelled on but is interesting nonetheless is how Wind Gap is kind of a town out of time. It’s almost a feudal lordship.

There don’t seem to be any democratic institutions. No Mayor or city council that we’re shown (and usually the small town mayor is a character in stories like this). Somebody is paying Vickery and the deputies but Adora seems to have the power to fire him herself.

The town has internet but it’s nowhere near as central or ubiquitous as it should be in 2018. No one has mentioned checking the murdered girls social media. We’ve seen a lot of teenagers getting together and no one has mentioned Instagram or Twitter. Camille has followed Amma to a hog farm but has never appeared to have considered checking her Facebook to see what she’s been up to. Ashley mentions wanting to be in the paper several times but no girl her age would care about that. They want to be viral.

In fact, I’m pretty sure that the only place we’ve seen a television was at the wine mom’s house where they were watching beaches. We’ve seen several teenagers rooms and I don’t  recall seeing a single tv, computer or video game. Stuff almost all kids have at least one of now.

Moreover, the citizens don’t seem to make use of any service beyond the borders of the town. All Jackie had to do to help was make one call to child protective services. Wind Gap May be an insulated community but they’re part of a county and state where there are laws and departments and bureaucracies that are there to handle these situations. But she doesn’t even seem to have considered this bare minimum step

Its just very odd and I wish it had been explored more

Good observations.  

I will add I got a very weird vibe from the Camille-editor/wife phone call.  The urgency of their pleas for Camille to GET OUT gave me a Shutter Island/Inception vibe (I know SO is not that kind of story but random words are on railroad cars and in a doll house, y'all).  It almost seemed like they were trying to wake her up or yank her out of some depersonalized state. 

Anyway, I'll be bummed if IT WAS ALL A DREAM and that's why the town is strangely out of time and Camille sees words and her only friends tell her to GET OUT...but now it's on the record.  We'll find out next week.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Penman61

[Schmolioot]

6 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Good observations.  

I will add I got a very weird vibe from the Camille-editor/wife phone call.  The urgency of their pleas for Camille to GET OUT gave me a Shutter Island/Inception vibe (I know SO is not that kind of story but random words are on railroad cars and in a doll house, y'all).  It almost seemed like they were trying to wake her up or yank her out of a some depersonalized state of mind. 

Anyway, I'll be bummed if IT WAS ALL A DREAM and that's why the town is strangely out of time and Camille sees words and her only friends tell her to GET OUT...but now it's on the record.  We'll find out next week.

Yeah, I agree. At the beginning I did wonder if this would end up being a Black Sawn type situation where Amma either wasn’t real or that the stuff she was doing was just in Camille’s head.

As for the editor, I took it as he just thought she was having another mental break and wanted her to leave immediately (but again with the lack of urgency, can’t he and his wife drive to Wind Gap and drag her home of hey believe this is an emergency?)

Does the editor even know Amma exists? He may not even know what she’s talking about when she says that she has to “finish this” or whatever 

[peach]

5 minutes ago, Schmolioot said:

Excellent find. And much like It Follows, no one here is acting with the required urgency for the situation.

The murder investigation seemed to be more of a nuisance to Vickery than a huge priority as it should be in such a small town.

And I mentioned this in an earlier post but Camille’s complete lack or urgency or action in what is clearly an emergency situation just flooded me. She now knows that Adora killed Marion and she just saw Amma sick under mysterious circumstances that morning. This is an extreme emergency situation that Amma needs to be taken away from immediately. But she does nothing. She even seems to drive around aimlessly for hours, not arriving home until it’s pitch black. She doesn’t call protective services. She doesn’t tell her editor. She doesn’t do anything. I don’t doubt that she cares about Amma and wants to help but she takes no steps.

Even Richard. He’s a police officer and a mandatory reporter. He does nothing. There is more than enough reasonable suspicion to have Amma removed temporarily. Why doesn’t he do anything?

Camille I sort of understand.  She's been dissociating and hallucinating and having flashbacks.  She's not stable, AND she's intoxicated which prevents her from making a plan.  She's in total shock, and regressing to whatever learned helplessness she had as a kid.

As for Richard, I don't even understand why he's there in the first place.  This is not a federal case or anything.  He's just somehow inserted there where nobody wants him.  As someone else said, there's not even a mayor that we have seen in this town.  It's like he's just there to be the fish out of water for Camille to explain things to.  Maybe his presence is explained better in the book.   And yeah, he's not acting on this at all, instead he just drops the EVIDENCE onto Camille's car seat for her to hopefully find and do something about.  ???  If Wind Gap is too much under the influence of Adora and her pet sheriff, he could still alert the county. 

1 minute ago, Schmolioot said:

As for the editor, I took it as he just thought she was having another mental break and wanted her to leave immediately (but again with the lack of urgency, can’t he and his wife drive to Wind Gap and drag her home of hey believe this is an emergency?)

They could be there in a few hours, but I assume this is why they showed him having medical treatments. I guess he's too sick to go down there. 

[izabella]

13 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Moreover, the citizens don’t seem to make use of any service beyond the borders of the town.

They don't seem to do much driving, either.  The streets are always deserted when we see drunk Camille driving around, and when we see the roller skaters.  There are parked cars, but nobody is ever shown driving except the cop, Richard and Camille and they're always driving around on streets without any other cars, except for in this episode when the cop sees Camille and the roller skaters and warns them about drunk drivers. 

There are never any pedestrians, either, when we see Camille driving around or the roller skaters.  It's like a ghost town outdoors..

Edited August 20, 2018 by izabella

[SarahPrtr]

51 minutes ago, Misstify said:

I wonder if Amma enticed Camille into taking various drugs that night with the hope she would get a hangover (or feel ill in some way), thus prompting Adora to get out the blue bottle and alert Camille to what was going on.  A cry for help.  Or, failing that, Camille would feel ill and be "taken care of" by Adora's blue bottle and not be able to leave town the next day.  Camille refused the blue bottle and left the house; Adora took Amma's second phone; and the laptop seems to be out of commission.  I have a feeling Amma is going to do something desperate to try to get Camille's attention now.  I have no idea how this relates to the murders of Anne and Natalie.

Really creepy af how Adora has proceeded to 'Misery'-ing Amma.

 

42 minutes ago, peach said:

Here's the quote from the director of It Follows.  I think Wind Gap is very like this.

Again, this might not be intentional, but it does add to the unease.  I think in the case of this show, it's a lot about how Adora demands things stay the same way, whether it's the maid, Calhoun Day, or her young children.  One of the reasons she hates Camille is that Camille is real. 

It occurs to me now that beyond the Munchausen thing, she also wants to remain the eternal young mother, and she's not young anymore if she has adult children.  So they have to die.  I have a friend with an extremely narcissistic mother, and she laments loudly and frequently that he now has a gray goatee, and how does that make HER look??  To have a child old enough to have a gray goatee.  Like, who cares, lady?!

Firstly, fk that mother, and I hope your friend is no longer in touch with his mother, or has very minimal contact.

 

A lot of the MBP happens to women who didn't get the attention they wanted and needed when they were young.  Adora was (supposedly) treated badly by her mother who didn't show her any love.  There's a serial killer called Mary Beth Tinning who, after losing her baby to meningitis, started killing her other children because she got so much sympathy when that first baby died.  She just kept killing them for the attention and at first, people thought there must have been some kind of genetic trait which made the children die, but then she and her husband adopted a baby and that baby died, they looked into other deaths. 

[Schmolioot]

2 minutes ago, peach said:

Camille I sort of understand.  She's been dissociating and hallucinating and having flashbacks.  She's not stable, AND she's intoxicated which prevents her from making a plan.  She's in total shock, and regressing to whatever learned helplessness she had as a kid.

As for Richard, I don't even understand why he's there in the first place.  This is not a federal case or anything.  He's just somehow inserted there where nobody wants him.  As someone else said, there's not even a mayor that we have seen in this town.  It's like he's just there to be the fish out of water for Camille to explain things to.  Maybe his presence is explained better in the book.   And yeah, he's not acting on this at all, instead he just drops the EVIDENCE onto Camille's car seat for her to hopefully find and do something about.  ???  If Wind Gap is too much under the influence of Adora and her pet sheriff, he could still alert the county. 

I mentioned the lack of mayor or any democratic institution really, but you’re right. Who exactly called Richard? And actually, kidnapped children cases do come under the FBI’s purview, so theoretically if someone had called them (like Natalie’s parents!!!) they would’ve come and taken over the case.

As for Camille, I’m not so willing to let her off the hook even though you’re correct. She’s stable enough to make a phone call to the proper auhorities. Or at the very least to race home and not leave Amma’s side until this is resolved. Or pack her a fricking bag and put her in the car when Adora goes to sleep 

[wovenloaf]

Richard's reaction in the hotel room.... Eh, certainly not his finest moment (to put it lightly), but I'm not really prepared to write him off as some horrible, no-good, misogynist, etc. based on it (however en vogue such responses to male infractions may be at the moment...).  Was she obligated to not sleep with anyone else?  No.  Does seeing someone you care about in bed with your 18 year old murder suspect still sting real bad?  Yeah, I'd assume so.  People lash out, it sucks but it doesn't always mean they're horrible people.  And let's get real, if the genders on this were reversed, and Camille was hurt by what she saw and said mean things to Richard about it, nobody would be mad at her.  

Frankly I'm bothered more by his weird snooping around about her medical history than I am about his poor reaction in the hotel room.  

[Mothra]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Add to the list of creepy things: the song over the end credits. What in the holy fuck was that creepy murder song?

That was, believe it or not, the Everly Brothers, from an album called "Songs My Daddy Taught Me," and it is *wonderful*.  It is a creepy song--many of the songs on that album are about dead children; they're old songs, some folk songs, all really wonderful. 

I'm a little disappointed in the MBP reveal; it seems too easy.  And it certainly doesn't solve the two murders (other than Marian's, I mean).  Camille "saw" her mother coming out of the woods as The Woman in White, enticing Natalie away.  I wonder if Jackie's trove of pills tells us that maybe Adora was providing Natalie and Ann with drugs?  We know Amma has access to various drugs--does she get them from her mother?

The physical brutality of Ann's and Natalie's murders contrasts violently with the hospitalized, caring calm of Marian's death.  It's hard for me to think that Adora would have two go-to MOs for killing "little girls".  But who is left?  I'm leaning toward Ashley now.  She's eager to be popular, which to her includes famous, as in having her name in the paper.  Ashley was annoyed with Camille when the information she gave Camille didn't appear in print.  The police chief was able to get her to give up John by saying she might even be on TV.  There's something really "off" with Ashley, and she's physically fit enough, I think, to have pulled teeth.  After being bitten by Natalie, she probably enjoyed getting those choppers out.

[peach]

2 minutes ago, Schmolioot said:

I mentioned the lack of mayor or any democratic institution really, but you’re right. Who exactly called Richard? And actually, kidnapped children cases do come under the FBI’s purview, so theoretically if someone had called them (like Natalie’s parents!!!) they would’ve come and taken over the case.

As for Camille, I’m not so willing to let her off the hook even though you’re correct. She’s stable enough to make a phone call to the proper auhorities. Or at the very least to race home and not leave Amma’s side until this is resolved. Or pack her a fricking bag and put her in the car when Adora goes to sleep 

Ok, I thought it had to cross state lines for the feds to get involved, but I'm just guessing.  Like you said, they would just take over the case anyway, and he's just a "Kansas City detective." It's just TV dumb.  And if they wanted a major case squad person, they would get one from St Louis.  This whole scenario was why I hated Three Billboards In Ebbing Missouri, just a sort of inexplicably sized town with no discernible leadership.  Seems like a Missouri problem of some sort.  lol

3 minutes ago, Mothra said:

  I wonder if Jackie's trove of pills tells us that maybe Adora was providing Natalie and Ann with drugs?  We know Amma has access to various drugs--does she get them from her mother?

Ooo, good catch.

[peach]

10 minutes ago, Schmolioot said:

As for Camille, I’m not so willing to let her off the hook even though you’re correct. She’s stable enough to make a phone call to the proper auhorities. Or at the very least to race home and not leave Amma’s side until this is resolved. Or pack her a fricking bag and put her in the car when Adora goes to sleep 

Yes, she should have gone to Amma's side at least. 

13 minutes ago, SarahPrtr said:

Firstly, fk that mother, and I hope your friend is no longer in touch with his mother, or has very minimal contact.

Very minimal!

[peach]

10 minutes ago, wovenloaf said:

Richard's reaction in the hotel room.... Eh, certainly not his finest moment (to put it lightly), but I'm not really prepared to write him off as some horrible, no-good, misogynist, etc. based on it (however en vogue such responses to male infractions may be at the moment...).  Was she obligated to not sleep with anyone else?  No.  Does seeing someone you care about in bed with your 18 year old murder suspect still sting real bad?  Yeah, I'd assume so.  People lash out, it sucks but it doesn't always mean they're horrible people.  And let's get real, if the genders on this were reversed, and Camille was hurt by what she saw and said mean things to Richard about it, nobody would be mad at her.  

Frankly I'm bothered more by his weird snooping around about her medical history than I am about his poor reaction in the hotel room.  

I agree.  And they already had adrenaline pumping, guns drawn, to take John Keene in...then he was genuinely stunned when he saw her there.  A real WTAF moment. Plus it was embarrassing in front of the other cops, when people sort of know something is going on between Camille and Richard.  And he would be wondering if this was going on the whole time they were investigating the case, and maybe she's been playing him (Richard) for a chump this whole time.  I think that was the actual root of his anger, feeling stupid, and looking compromised.  He had time to think of all that while they were cuffing John, etc.  Then she tried to go down on him, which also would make him think she's just trying to manipulate him with sex, even if she's just acting out her own damaged way.  So he said some super mean things. 

I think this certainly Gillian Flynn's style, her characters are all unlikable.

[Schmolioot]

3 minutes ago, peach said:

I agree.  And they already had adrenaline pumping, guns drawn, to take John Keene in...then he was genuinely stunned when he saw her there.  A real WTAF moment. Plus it was embarrassing in front of the other cops, when people sort of know something is going on between Camille and Richard.  And he would be wondering if this was going on the whole time they were investigating the case, and maybe she's been playing him (Richard) for a chump this whole time.  I think that was the actual root of his anger, feeling stupid, and looking compromised.  He had time to think of all that while they were cuffing John, etc.  Then she tried to go down on him, which also would make him think she's just trying to manipulate him with sex, even if she's just acting out her own damaged way.  So he said some super mean things. 

I think this certainly Gillian Flynn's style, her characters are all unlikable.

He was very harsh but wasn’t completely wrong.

She has to take responsibility for her behavior and decisions. She’s an adult. She knows it’s not right to have sex with the HS kid who is wanted for murder.

Yeah, she’s had a shitty life and she needs help. That doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want consequence free. Same goes for Amma too. 

[DangerousMinds]

There is no excuse for using the word "slut."

[Schmolioot]

1 minute ago, DangerousMinds said:

There is no excuse for using the word "slut."

Fair enough.

[Accidental Martyr]

1 hour ago, peach said:

The director of the movie It Follows, put modern and vintage elements together in a way that didn't quite make sense, which he said helped create that feeling of unease for the viewer, as in a dream.  When is this, where is this?  I feel this is similar, even if it wasn't intentional.

The way It Follows seemed unattached to a certain time period is one of the things that really struck me about the film. The director talks about it in this interview.

https://film.avclub.com/david-robert-mitchell-on-his-striking-new-horror-film-1798277440

Edit: I see Peach already linked to this interview.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Accidental Martyr

[Penman61]

55 minutes ago, wovenloaf said:

Richard's reaction in the hotel room.... Eh, certainly not his finest moment (to put it lightly), but I'm not really prepared to write him off as some horrible, no-good, misogynist, etc. based on it (however en vogue such responses to male infractions may be at the moment...).  Was she obligated to not sleep with anyone else?  No.  Does seeing someone you care about in bed with your 18 year old murder suspect still sting real bad?  Yeah, I'd assume so.  People lash out, it sucks but it doesn't always mean they're horrible people.  And let's get real, if the genders on this were reversed, and Camille was hurt by what she saw and said mean things to Richard about it, nobody would be mad at her.  

Frankly I'm bothered more by his weird snooping around about her medical history than I am about his poor reaction in the hotel room.  

This is thought-provoking.  If the genders were reversed...this would be a different story.  I'm actually glad we're stigmatizing the off-the-shelf sexist slurs that men and women grab so easily when they want to insult women. (I don't expect we'll get rid of "bitch" anytime soon, but it's really no less bigoted than the c-word or the n-word, IMHO.)  Of course Richard is hurt and angry, but why not a simple, gender-free, "Fuck you/fuck off/eat shit/we're done/DIAF."  There are many, many ways to hurl your anger at a woman without telling her she's a slut and her sex smells because she chose to have sex with someone other than you.  The fact that the writers had Richard use those words was a way to show us who he is:  When stripped to an angry core, he's a misogynist, too, on the less-violent end of the continuum with the rapist football players, the townspeople who celebrate a rape re-enactment as part of their historical folklore, and anyone else who thinks that a woman's body belongs to them and not her.

(And I see Richard's medical history snooping about Camille of a piece with his outburst in the motel room. He's entitled.)

Edited August 20, 2018 by Penman61

[Accidental Martyr]

2 hours ago, PepSinger said:

He definitely said, "of you." I'm not surprised. Even though she bathes, she is wearing all of that dark, covering clothing in 100 degree heat. Also, why can't Richard wear something other than a long-sleeved shirt? I mean, even a polo for goodness' sakes!

 

John Keene was wearing a black hooded sweatshirt. I would be near death wearing that.

[Dminches]

3 hours ago, izabella said:

A number of people here are saying this, but I don't understand why.  The sheriff tells Richard that Ashley showed them where the blood was, and they were getting it tested to see if it was Natalie's.  Richard later tells Camille that they found Natalie's blood at John's place after they arrest John.  

Why would Richard lie about that?  Especially since they had no other evidence on John to arrest him if the blood hadn't come back yet as Natalie's.  They didn't bring John in for questioning - he was arrested.  They couldn't arrest him until they had the blood results, because it could have been anyone's blood, even John's from a nosebleed or something.

The said they were getting it tested but they never said what the results are.  Also, when Richard said that he may have just been assuming as opposed to having the facts.  It takes more than a couple hours to test blood.  They may have arrested him but it doesn’t mean the evidence is sufficient to charge him.

[CheezyXpressed]

15 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

This is thought-provoking.  If the genders were reversed...this would be a different story.  I'm actually glad we're stigmatizing the off-the-shelf sexist slurs that men and women grab so easily when they want to insult women. (I don't expect we'll get rid of "bitch" anytime soon, but it's really no less bigoted than the c-word or the n-word, IMHO.)  Of course Richard is hurt and angry, but why not a simple, gender-free, "Fuck you/fuck off/eat shit/we're done/DIAF."  There are many, many ways to hurl your anger at a woman without telling her she's a slut and her sex smells because she chose to have sex with someone other than you.  The fact that the writers had Richard use those words was a way to show us who he is:  When stripped to an angry core, he's a misogynist, too, on the less-violent end of the continuum with the rapist football players, the townspeople who celebrate a rape re-enactment as part of their historical folklore, and anyone else who thinks that a woman's body belongs to them and not her.

(And I see Richard's medical history snooping about Camille of a piece with his outburst in the motel room. He's entitled.)

I think Richard just wanted to hurt her like she hurt him. Not only did he come in expecting John, but he ended up seeing the girl he likes sleeping with an almost minor. Not only that, but she's also naked, which is something she didn't do for him. In all of their sexual encounters, Camille has been the one who takes charge of what happens but I think Richard (and the viewers) could tell that it was different when she was with John. Despite the ick factor, Camille and John connected in a way that Richard can't understand.

Does this mean that he's a horrible human being that feels like Camille's body is his? I don't think so. Should he have used slut? No. But people react to rejection, humiliation and adrenaline differently. As much as it would be great for people to not lash out in hurtful ways, it's what humans do and what makes us flawed. I mean, when I was younger (grade 2) I got so angry at one of my classmates that I told her that Santa Claus wasn't real. It kind of ruined her world and the world of other classmates as well. It wasn't one of my finer moments, but people do stupid things when they're angry. He lashed out and I think he regretted it once he left the room. He knows Camille went through stuff, but I don't think he ever saw her as anything more than a hot girl.

[Butless]

14 hours ago, Schmolioot said:

Camille is also pretty lucky she didn’t get arrested in that motel. It wasn’t statutory rape but she most certainly aided and abetted a wanted man when she knew there was an APB out for him and obstructed justice by not turning him in.

The police didnt come out to the town and declare him wanted, did they? Everybody in town, including Amma's sidekicks, knew it was John  through gossip.  If that's the case, then Camille was ok.   What's worse for Camille is, her piece is scrapped , if John really is the killer of one or both of the girls , or involved in any way. She lost any semblance of objectivity.

 

13 hours ago, zobot81 said:

This show, you guys.

What amazes me is how well Amy Adams understands how a person who does not want to be seen or touched or "read" by anyone might react when someone like John disarms her.  And bravo to the actor who plays John (Taylor John Smith)  -- I could not have been more moved by this whole performance. 

 

I agree, she was great. Down to the nervous laugh mixed with relief she gives when she  says to John, "Youre reading me."

It's the acting that kept me in this series, because it did get frustrating at times. Some of the acting ,or reactions of the actors in scenes, was so good, it stuck with me.  Anne's dad (Will Chase), when he recognizes Anne's bike seat.  The hesitant apology of the haunted rapist (Jackson Hurst), and even Richard's (Chris Messina) outburst at Camille. I was impressed with The guy who plays Alan (Henry Czerny). I've seen this guy around in so many character acting roles but I couldnt name him, or any of his roles. He was superb when he got to shine, dressing down Camille or being bitter toward the sheriff.

I never much liked Amy Adams' performances. Or  more like, I was neutral, I guess. But this was a showcase role, and she was great in it. There're too many wonderfully acted scenes of her,  Clarkson, and Perkins, to name.  Clarkson gave a flawless performance.

[peach]

35 minutes ago, CheezyXpressed said:

I think Richard just wanted to hurt her like she hurt him. Not only did he come in expecting John, but he ended up seeing the girl he likes sleeping with an almost minor. Not only that, but she's also naked, which is something she didn't do for him. In all of their sexual encounters, Camille has been the one who takes charge of what happens but I think Richard (and the viewers) could tell that it was different when she was with John. Despite the ick factor, Camille and John connected in a way that Richard can't understand.

Does this mean that he's a horrible human being that feels like Camille's body is his? I don't think so. Should he have used slut? No. But people react to rejection, humiliation and adrenaline differently. As much as it would be great for people to not lash out in hurtful ways, it's what humans do and what makes us flawed.

Also, Richard HAS NO IDEA what happened between Camille and John.  He doesn't know what the audience knows, he only knows that everyone in town has been telling him to avoid her, and he didn't.  I think those moments when he was standing in the background processing it were great acting.  You could seem his wheels turning.  How does he know she hasn't been screwing John the whole time?  And trying to get Richard to tell her if John was a suspect or whatever.   I think he felt like a fool, and he will probably also feel like a fool after he calms down and thinks about what he said to her in anger. 

[annlaw78]

2 hours ago, peach said:

I thought it had to cross state lines for the feds to get involved, but I'm just guessing.  Like you said, they would just take over the case anyway, and he's just a "Kansas City detective." It's just TV dumb.  And if they wanted a major case squad person, they would get one from St Louis.  This whole scenario was why I hated Three Billboards In Ebbing Missouri, just a sort of inexplicably sized town with no discernible leadership.  Seems like a Missouri problem of some sort.  lol

KC (or the majority of it) is in Missouri.  Now, since this is clearly filmed nowhere in Missouri, let alone the bootheel where this is supposed to be...

You’re right though that St. Louis would be closer. 

 

Quote

She has to take responsibility for her behavior and decisions. She’s an adult. She knows it’s not right to have sex with the HS kid who is wanted for murder.

Yeah, she’s had a shitty life and she needs help. That doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want consequence free. Same goes for Amma too.

Agreed. I guess this is why the age thing bugs me a bit. 40-year old Camille probably should have figured out a way to function in a way that doesn’t require constant intoxication.  CHILDREN SKATE ON THOSE ROADS LIKE IT IS XANADU!!!

Edited August 20, 2018 by annlaw78
Sorry, I can’t work the quote function b/c I am old, hence the Xanadu reference.

[Butless]

2 hours ago, wovenloaf said:

Richard's reaction in the hotel room.... Eh, certainly not his finest moment (to put it lightly), but I'm not really prepared to write him off as some horrible, no-good, misogynist, etc. based on it (however en vogue such responses to male infractions may be at the moment...).  Was she obligated to not sleep with anyone else?  No.  Does seeing someone you care about in bed with your 18 year old murder suspect still sting real bad?  Yeah, I'd assume so.  People lash out, it sucks but it doesn't always mean they're horrible people.  And let's get real, if the genders on this were reversed, and Camille was hurt by what she saw and said mean things to Richard about it, nobody would be mad at her.  

Frankly I'm bothered more by his weird snooping around about her medical history than I am about his poor reaction in the hotel room.  

It's not "en vogue" to call a man using the word "slut" on a woman a misogynist. It's 100% factual.

I really dont think Richard needs anyone to come to his defense. There is no serious male equivalent to the word "slut." Its a gendered word used against women.  It's a gendered slur word, used to demean and dehumanize women, solely.  Had Camille been black, and Richard unleashed the N-bomb on her, he shouldnt have been forgiven, either. People show you who they really are in stressful moments, just like this.  He calls her a slut, insults her feminine scent, etc., he is literally telling her who he is, as the other poster said, at his core.  There's a reason he's wearing that huge tattoo of a cross in this show, and it's to show he's another one of these same hypocritical, misogynistic Christians, like the ones in this town. It's not just a failure on behalf of understanding the Richard character, but also of the themes in the show itself, to write his behavior off as excusable or acceptable.

Is Richard a 'horrible, no good' person? No; he's a person with some serious flaws that are all too common in a broader culture of this country, that excuses men for their casual misogyny. One thing is for sure, Chris Messina acted the scene superbly.  He shows what a crybabay, entitled, meanspirited, hurt, jealous, embarrassed, and wholly misogynist man Richard actually is, under all the smugness and teasing.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Buttless

[Mothra]

The actor who plays John Keene is absolutely beautiful.

I felt bad for Chris, and I'm willing to forgive him somewhat for his nasty outburst.  I think he was genuinely falling in love with Camille, putting up with her restrictions on their sex lives, and then to come upon her naked, which she would never do for him, with this *kid* must have hurt terribly.  I think all his ugly talk to her, including telling her the room smelled of her (which is reminiscent of Adora's telling her she smelled "ripe") was from his hurt.

When they are at the dress shop on Calhoun Day, and Camille is forced to reveal her scars, Adora says, "It's worse than I remembered" and Camille says "you weren't there at the end."  Adora then says "It's over now?" or something like that, to which Camille says yes.  Was Adora aware of Camille's cutting--I'm guessing that "cherry" was her first cut--when Camille lived at home?

I think "a town out of time" is a perfect description of Wind Gap.  Not only are there odd lapses all over the place, but, again, what's with all the roller-skating?!  Girls--kids--haven't been spending that kind of time roller-skating since I don't know when.  And Natalie rode a bike.  Is that significant?

[Butless]

7 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

This was finally an episode with PLOT! Thank heavens.

With as much as Camille drinks, I wouldn't put it past her to be able to walk on a swollen ankle without feeling much. Also, if Adora came at me with poison, I'm thinking a large dose of adrenaline would kick in. And then you really wouldn't have pain.

Camille's "arrested development" was highlighted brilliantly in this episode. It's sad that we are seeing a healthy, fully consensual encounter with an 18-year-old. But maybe not. Maybe grief has no age boundaries. Their scenes were beautiful. It is so healthy, so necessary, so important for Camille to feel "seen."  And he had no issues accepting all her scars on the inside or outside. Camille craves a real connection and it seems the only people she can get that with are teenagers. Weird, but it makes a lot of sense. She stopped maturing in her tracks as a teen.

Compare that to the hiding game she plays with Richard, and I didn't even feel that sorry for him when he found her there. He was digging up info on her from medical professionals instead of asking her about her life over dinner. I just can't get in line with that. And the "slut and drunk" comments were classic "nice-guy" statements, from a jerk who calls himself a nice guy but wishes he had the looks or nerve to be a "bad boy." What a dunce.

I wish we'd seen the blue vial earlier in the show. Maybe we did. I would have to go back and look. 

Amma's little dollhouse is the only place she has control in that house. No one can touch because she's constantly under Adora's gaze and needs to find a measure of control. I cannot imagine a kid playing along while her mother makes her sick. No effing words. Alan doesn't know everything, but he knows enough. He seems the type who doesn't want the ipecac turned on his evening drink, so he looks the other way. I'd say he's weak, but it seems everyone is weak under Adora's power.

One truly terrifying moment in the episode, which I only caught on a quick rewatch, was in the first few minutes when Adora tried to force medicine and "care" on Camille. As Camille made her way to the bathroom, she quickly closed the bathroom door, which had a mirror on the front. Upon closure, we got a quick flash of Amma standing in the doorway. I actually jumped sky high. It was reminiscent of "Paranormal Activity" or something like that. It was the only time I've had such a reaction in the series.

I love the oldies music that accompanied many scenes from Vickery's car. I grew up with parents who were older than those of my peers, and the only music I knew until I was 10 was doo wop. That music perfectly encapsulates the town of Wind Gap. The tones are sweet and reminiscent of a bygone era that was seemingly simpler. However, if you listen closely to the lyrics, there's something sinister happening in those songs. Wind Gap is a walking Ricky Nelson tune. The closing song was a home run for this ep. Listen to Nelson's version of "Last Kiss" - you'll realize that the Pearl Jam version is easier to digest. Out of a voice that's beautiful and innocent comes something horrifying and devastating. It's not as sweet as it sounds on first listen.

The actor who plays John Keene was brilliant this episode. He's just been a lurking string bean for much of this show, but I couldn't take my eyes off him tonight. The scene with Camille at the bar was an Emmy reel for Best Supporting Actor, in my opinion.

There are some fine details here beyond the random words. For example, I love that the sweat stain on the back of Dick's shirt just kept getting bigger as the episode progressed. 

I wish we'd had 6 episodes that contained this level of urgency and dread. I don't know how they're wrapping this up next week. I hope it's a 90-minute episode. 

 

I loved your post so much, I had to tell you ;)  You should post in here more.

 One of the scariest moments for me was the opening of this episode, where Camille is dreaming that she is looking into the dollhouse and she's startled away when she sees a figure moving in it. I think it was supposed to be Amma, all decked out in a white dress and garland on her head (?), which we get a flash to at the end of the episode.

Some of the songs playing in the Sheriff's car are so on the money, lyrics wise, what  with all the cheating, etc.

That closing song was perfect and awful at the same time, and  that the Everly Bros sang it with their dulcet tones, makes it so much more creepy and weird.

Im with you, hoping this is a 90min finale. I had the most fun with this episode, but it was over too quickly.  I just hope the finale isnt filled with people dying slowly from poisonings.

 

Edited to add:
 

Quote

 

And the "slut and drunk" comments were classic "nice-guy" statements, from a jerk who calls himself a nice guy but wishes he had the looks or nerve to be a "bad boy." What a dunce

 

 

 

Someone said something about if the genders were reversed, Camille would have behaved exactly like Richard did, which is not comparable due to this huge problem we have rooted in masculinity that allows men license to denigrate women. But she would have been angry and hurt (among a set of whole other things, culturally proscribed), just like him, to see that he slept with an 18 year old girl.

And I dont think that's shown enough on film, just how butthurt and jealous men get, when they find out that theyve been 'cheated' on with a younger man.  Because lets face it, an older woman, entering her sexual prime, can fuck the socks off a younger man, and vice versa. Older men dont have the stamina or refractory of younger men. And that is an inequity that is not lost on men, in the least.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Buttless

[annlaw78]

It always bugged me that for someone so “overprotective” and controlling as Adora, she and her husband take apparently no steps to ensure Anna does not sneak out, given there’s a killer on the loose. That mansion doesn’t have an alarm?  Dad can’t sleep on the couch to make sure she isn’t creeping down the stairs (lord knows he ain’t in Adora’s room)?

 

But, I guess it makes some weird sense, if Adora has some MBP thing going on, or Camille’s vision her mom is involved in the murders is true, that Adora would not be that concerned so as to actually take some basic steps to avoid teenage sneaking out of the house!

[Schmolioot]

3 minutes ago, annlaw78 said:

It always bugged me that for someone so “overprotective” and controlling as Adora, she and her husband take apparently no steps to ensure Anna does not sneak out, given there’s a killer on the loose. That mansion doesn’t have an alarm?  Dad can’t sleep on the couch to make sure she isn’t creeping down the stairs (lord knows he ain’t in Adora’s room)?

 

But, I guess it makes some weird sense, if Adora has some MBP thing going on, or Camille’s vision her mom is involved in the murders is true, that Adora would not be that concerned so as to actually take some basic steps to avoid teenage sneaking out of the house!

Kind of like when Amma ran off during Calhoun Day. Adora made a huge scene but didn’t move her ass an inch to actually look for her.

Of course, if Adora is the murderer she knows Amma has nothing to fear. Is not just Amma though. Her whole crew including the guys seem to be out every night. Nobody’s parents seem all that concerned

Speaking of that, is it supposed to be summer vacation or are they in school during the day?

[Butless]

Quote

- Milk

- Falling

- Cherry

- Closer

- Ripe

- Fix

- Dirt

- Vanish

I like this show so much, I want to see a great line of perfume based on it.

[SimonSeymour]

So, did  anyone else notice that John told Camille while at that bar/house that Natalie’s nails were painted when she was found murdered, and he said that she NEVER would have painted her nails? 

To me, I took that as a huge clue that someone who sees young girls as something to dress up and “make pretty” is the person who murdered her aka Adora. 

[FoundTime]

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Add to the list of creepy things: the song over the end credits. What in the holy fuck was that creepy murder song?

That is an awesome song called "Down in the Willow Garden" and is indeed one in a weird and creepy history of murder ballads. (Yes, there are more! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_ballad) I first heard it on Art Garfunkel's solo album.

Continuity error that I had to rewind and watch in slo-mo to be sure it was actually there: When Camille pulls over downtown and has her little mini-breakdown, there is a white storefront with what looks like Queos… (or Queqs?) across it. On a later cut, as she's driving away, it reads "Engli…" Another mystery! If they were filming in an actual downtown somewhere and made a correction in post-production, who are these Queos… people who didn't want to be associated with the production? ?

This ep was a bit more interesting, but yikes, what a slog to get there.

Edited August 21, 2018 by FoundTime
Include link re: murder ballads

[acid burn]

4 hours ago, peach said:

I have a friend with an extremely narcissistic mother, and she laments loudly and frequently that he now has a gray goatee, and how does that make HER look??  To have a child old enough to have a gray goatee.  Like, who cares, lady?!

YES. My mother has just now gotten over the fact I got married. At 36. She didn't even want to look at dresses with me and I didn't know why until she confessed she was disinterested because she wasn't going to be the center of attention and also because it made her look old. I was like, uhh, I hate to tell you but we're both old, lady, and if you want to be the center of attention you can always renew your vows.

She never tried to poison me, though, thank god.

On-topic: My husband thinks the murderer is Alan. I'm sticking with my original theory, however.

[peach]

5 hours ago, annlaw78 said:

KC (or the majority of it) is in Missouri.  Now, since this is clearly filmed nowhere in Missouri, let alone the bootheel where this is supposed to be...

You’re right though that St. Louis would be closer.

 

I know, I live in Missouri.  lol  KC is a long way from the bootheel, but yes, besides the Arch (and her going across the river in order to southeastern MO), they are obviously not in Missouri.  I watched a few episodes of Ozark, and kept wondering where they were, and it turned out to be Georgia.  They didn't film at Lake of the Ozarks because it's too built up.  Haha.
 

Quote

CHILDREN SKATE ON THOSE ROADS LIKE IT IS XANADU!!!

Quote of the day! lol

 

4 hours ago, annlaw78 said:

It always bugged me that for someone so “overprotective” and controlling as Adora, she and her husband take apparently no steps to ensure Anna does not sneak out, given there’s a killer on the loose. That mansion doesn’t have an alarm?  Dad can’t sleep on the couch to make sure she isn’t creeping down the stairs (lord knows he ain’t in Adora’s room)?

But, I guess it makes some weird sense, if Adora has some MBP thing going on, or Camille’s vision her mom is involved in the murders is true, that Adora would not be that concerned so as to actually take some basic steps to avoid teenage sneaking out of the house!

Because it's about pretending.  Camille refused to pretend, ever, so she's the scapegoat.  Amma is willing to pretend with Adora, and Adora pretends she doesn't know Amma is pretending.   Everything is fine as along as everybody goes along with the script.  She doesn't really care about Amma, as long as Amma plays her role.

This is actually a really good (extreme) depiction of an alcoholic/dysfunctional family.  Everyone is drinking all the time, even though it's Camille guzzling it down around the clock.  The person who speaks truth in a pretending family is "worse" (in the family dynamic) than the perpetrators of whatever is being perpetrated.  Which isn't necessarily specific to alcohol.

Adora pretends about EVERYTHING.  I laughed in that one episode when Camille was cutting an apple or something, and Adora said, "let me do that," and then she gave it to Gayla.  All with an air like she actually did something. 

 

[LilaFowler]

I'm not surprised that Chief Vickery didn't want to take Camille in for questioning. If it had been anyone other than Adora Crellin's daughter, she would have been hauled out of that motel room and loaded into a cop car bound for the station. Vickery has been protecting Adora and her reputation for decades. I think he's infatuated with her and probably enjoys the power that she has over him and his job. I think he protects Adora because he wants to.

[Schmolioot]

6 minutes ago, peach said:

Because it's about pretending.  Camille refused to pretend, ever, so she's the scapegoat.  Amma is willing to pretend with Adora, and Adora pretends she doesn't know Amma is pretending.   Everything is fine as along as everybody goes along with the script.  She doesn't really care about Amma, as long as Amma plays her role.

This is actually a really good (extreme) depiction of an alcoholic/dysfunctional family.  Everyone is drinking all the time, even though it's Camille guzzling it down around the clock.  The person who speaks truth in a pretending family is "worse" (in the family dynamic) than the perpetrators of whatever is being perpetrated.  Which isn't necessarily specific to alcohol.

Adora pretends about EVERYTHING.  I laughed in that one episode when Camille was cutting an apple or something, and Adora said, "let me do that," and then she gave it to Gayla.  All with an air like she actually did something. 

 

Just like there’s no way that Adora was actually making those grilled cheeses Amma wanted. You know it’s the maid.

Made Adora’s fake moralizing even worse. “I think you’re old enough to make your own grilled cheese”. Bitch, so are you.

[wovenloaf]

26 minutes ago, peach said:

I know, I live in Missouri.  lol  KC is a long way from the bootheel, but yes, besides the Arch (and her going across the river in order to southeastern MO), they are obviously not in Missouri.  I watched a few episodes of Ozark, and kept wondering where they were, and it turned out to be Georgia.  They didn't film at Lake of the Ozarks because it's too built up.  Haha.

Apparently the small town they shot it in is in Georgia. (And I remember that about Ozark too - I wonder why Georgia is the go to for pretend Missouri footage, ha!) The house used for the exterior of Adora's house is in Northern California. 

https://www.bustle.com/p/where-was-sharp-objects-filmed-the-show-totally-took-over-a-sleepy-town-9727229

[tennisgurl]

First of all, Down in the Willow Garden is a perfect song to end this episode on. Murder Ballads are perfect for this show on every level. The clinging to the past, the seemingly random violence, the folksiness that covers the darkness, its a match made in bloody heaven. 

Second of all, if Adora was the kind of person who would own a Worlds Best Mom mug, she would have to return that shit ASAP. Its not enough to be the queen of Wind Gap, she has to poison her daughters to get even more attention. Its all so messed up, and she cant be stopped, because she is just that big of a deal around Wind Gap. I dont think the sheriff wants to admit what Adora did, and is still doing, because it would mean he got taken in by the queen of Wind Gap. And not only that, but the members of their First Family will have shown themselves to be just as, if not more, fucked up then everyone else, and where does that leave them? I think he was/is in strong denial, and even if he does get hard evidence, he will try his damnedest to look the other way. I think Alan also suspects, but is so in love with Adora that he just puts on his headphones and ignores it. Jackie definitely knew what was up, and I am sure that other people knew too. 

I think that its part of a greater theme of the show, that bad things happen when people see bad things happening, or know its happening, and do nothing. Either because they dont think its "that bad", that it will upset the social order too much, make people look bad, or just because its easier to pretend not to see something awful happening.

Richard needs to back the hell down with his judgmental act. Yeah, having sex with a grieving teenage murder suspect (yeah eighteen, but still in high school!) is a pretty awful life choice, but what a dick way to handle things. He acts like they have some big relationship and he has some kind of claim on her, even though they hardly even know each other. He is spending all his time looking into her life, instead of trying to catch a killer, and acts like a huge asshole when he sees her sleeping with someone else. Acting like she is making excuses about "one bad thing" and calling her a drunken slut, totally underplaying her years of trauma and clear emotional issues, is just crappy. Although, he did still leave her the files. 

Oh Camille. She really is seriously messed up, and thats even before she realized that her mother probably killed her sister, and might be a serial killer. Honestly, I think Camille handles all her tragedies better than a lot of people would. She is definitely an alcoholic, and is frequently desperate for validation even if it leads to bad choices, but she is still a basically decent person who cares about people, manages to generally hold her life together, and despite what Richard says, doesn't make excuses, even if she has certainly earned the right to. Her begging Richard to stay with her was just so sad. She seems to have regressed some to being a young girl desperately looking for someone to love her. And as much as sleeping with John was questionable, the act itself was really kind of sweet and emotional. They clearly got each other, and he accepted her for all she was, even if it was just for that one afternoon.

[Accidental Martyr]

2 hours ago, Schmolioot said:

Speaking of that, is it supposed to be summer vacation or are they in school during the day?

In an earlier episode Camille asked Ashley why she was wearing her cheerleader uniform even though school was out.

Later, though,  we see Amma and the other kids rehearsing for the play and it looks like they’re in some sort of drama class in school. When she is talking to the teacher we hear a bell ring.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Accidental Martyr

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, FoundTime said:

Continuity error that I had to rewind and watch in slo-mo to be sure it was actually there: When Camille pulls over downtown and has her little mini-breakdown, there is a white storefront with what looks like Queos… (or Queqs?) across it. On a later cut, as she's driving away, it reads "Engli…" Another mystery! If they were filming in an actual downtown somewhere and made a correction in post-production, who are these Queos… people who didn't want to be associated with the production? ?

It's not a continuity error. They've purposely done that throughout the show - Camille will see one word, and then a later shot shows a different word. In this case the first word was "Queasy" - which is how she was feeling.