Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

[Velocity23]

Just now, Trisha said:

Bless you for reassuring us! 

He said the first part of season gonna be rough but that it will be much better in the 2nd part. He also brought up the olicity kid all on his own. But as soon as i asked when the baby was coming he became evasive like he was not sure. Looking back it just confirms to me he was talking FF, and wasnt sure yet about the present time

[Mary0360]

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

So did DR. 

David also supposedly told people that Maya is Olicity's daughter even though that doesn't really look like it's true. Or if it was it's doesn't look like it any more. Yeah I'm still bitter David! I wouldn't of even cared if he didn't open his trap. 

[Guest]

This is me trying to figure out how Maya can be Olicity's daughter:

😂😂

Even if she is the plot holes are gonna be dumb and annoying or it's just too depressing to think about why no one recognized her. I'm sticking to my Thea/Roy theory that doesn't hurt me. 😂

[jenrising]

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

It seemed to me she was reading the arrow tag and got in her feelings

She should spend more time trying an acting technique other than scowling, and less time addressing "haters"

[Velocity23]

1 minute ago, Mary0360 said:

David also supposedly told people that Maya is Olicity's daughter even though that doesn't really look like it's true. Or if it was it's doesn't look like it any more. Yeah I'm still bitter David! I wouldn't of even cared if he didn't open his trap. 

I am not so sure it means that

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

David also supposedly told people that Maya is Olicity's daughter even though that doesn't really look like it's true. Or if it was it's doesn't look like it any more. Yeah I'm still bitter David! I wouldn't of even cared if he didn't open his trap. 

To be fair to him, he told people that Oliver and Felicity had a daughter who was named Maya - he never said that this Maya was going to be their daughter, fans who had that info just put 2+2 together and assumed this was her. It could've been true at the time, and he wouldn't have had any idea that Beth was going to use the same name for a different character (or it could still be the same character, and they're just playing up mystery to make it seem impossible now). 

Edited December 5, 2018 by apinknightmare

[Velocity23]

I find it hilarious how David spoils things and people do not believe him. And at the end it turns out to be true.

[way2interested]

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

or it could still be the same character, and they're just playing up mystery to make it seem impossible now

I mean, they are doing the exact same thing with Future Felicity, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.. It's not like they wouldn't do it, and I can't remember a time where DR straight up lied

Edited December 5, 2018 by way2interested

[JJ928]

14 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

This is me trying to figure out how Maya can be Olicity's daughter:

Even if she is the plot holes are gonna be dumb and annoying or it's just too depressing to think about why no one recognized her. I'm sticking to my Thea/Roy theory that doesn't hurt me. 

If she is, the only way they could make it work is William & Maya are playing a long con, pretending not to know each other, and maybe we learn DD left present day when she was really young. Nothing else will make sense. Hell, even that won't explain Zoe/Willaim knowing each other but her not knowing Maya, unless she's in on it too.

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, way2interested said:

I mean, they are doing the exact same thing with Future Felicity, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.. It's not like they wouldn't do it, and I can't remember a time where DR straight up lied

True! I think it's a little easier to waffle on this one considering William doesn't seem to know her, and Dinah's not like, "Hey, what do you think about your sister being an evil cage fighter, William?!" NOT that they couldn't explain any inconsistencies away - in fact, I'm pretty sure they will. It's just not as sure of a thing as it would've been if David had specifically said, "This character named Maya coming on is Oliver and Felicity's daughter," rather than "Oliver and Felicity have a daughter named Maya". Because even after he told so many people that Oliver and Felicity were having a baby, he still told at least one fan at a con in Australia (and possibly elsewhere) that that was the plan but that TPTB hadn't approved it yet, and were concerned about having a baby on set. So their kid Maya could've initially been the plan when he spoiled it, that then got changed, but they kept the name. 

[way2interested]

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

So their kid Maya could've initially been the plan when he spoiled it, that then got changed, but they kept the name. 

I would still think the idea that regardless of whether getting approved to have a baby on the show they would have still gone forward with the same name/character to use in their flash forwards story anyway and just make sure to cast relatively young to be able to have the baby for the series finale especially if the baby idea for a present season wasn't approved, which is essentially also what Flash is doing.

Edited December 5, 2018 by way2interested

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

I agree, except that I think Rene is The Glades mayor or whatever they call their elected leader. 

 

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

Yeah - Zoe said in episode 4 that Rene "wouldn't be caught dead in Star City." It still makes me laugh that she was so dramatic about it when he's just a couple of blocks away in The Glades. These flash forwards are so dumb lmao. 

Thanks for the clarification.  I got the Mayor part just because they tossed it out in 708 and it was an obvious setup to the Flash Forward (IMO).  Although, nowhere near as clunky as the feels like Christmas break is 20 years away....sure Oliver you haven't seen your son that you love more than anything since 2018 when he was sent away by mean old Evil Step Mom Felicity (of course Felicity saying she misses Will totally detracts from that EVIL Flash Forward Felicity...)

Edited December 5, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

18 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I would still think the idea that regardless of whether getting approved to have a baby on the show they would have still gone forward with the same name/character to use in their flash forwards story anyway and just make sure to cast relatively young to be able to have the baby for the series finale especially if the baby idea for a present season wasn't approved, which is essentially also what Flash is doing.

 

That could totally be! I was speaking to the fact that the show itself has given reason to doubt that Maya is their kid and that the spoiler David gave didn’t go on as planned, so it’s not like people are doubting what he said just because they want to be negative or not believe him. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

If she is, the only way they could make it work is William & Maya are playing a long con, pretending not to know each other, and maybe we learn DD left present day when she was really young. Nothing else will make sense. Hell, even that won't explain Zoe/Willaim knowing each other but her not knowing Maya, unless she's in on it too.

Yeah, it's possible they're playing a long con. I considered the same myself. I'm just not sure that's what is happening anymore. I think it's better not to get my hopes up now. 

Also I did wonder if part of the reason why Roy wasn't in the flashforwards when we met Maya was so they could have his reaction later, finding out his daughter is a fighter now. Of course that also has plot holes and they would need to explain why he was living on Lian Yu when he had a daughter running around but right now that seems like the more likely option, IMO. 

I guess we'll see!

Edited December 5, 2018 by Guest

[Mary0360]

31 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

If she is, the only way they could make it work is William & Maya are playing a long con, pretending not to know each other, and maybe we learn DD left present day when she was really young. Nothing else will make sense. Hell, even that won't explain Zoe/Willaim knowing each other but her not knowing Maya, unless she's in on it too.

Even that doesn't work because Dinah is supposedly the reason Star City went to hell or at least Maya blamed her for doing something that made Star City what is what, plus the fact that she has obviously been leading the "Canary Network" and grooming Zoe, it suggest she's been in Star City long enough to you'd assume to know who Oliver and Felicitys daughter is. 

 

Logically the the only way I see this working is if Oliver and Felicity gave her away to protect her or something as a baby and lied to everyone that she died. Then reconnected with her as an adult. 

[way2interested]

The same could be said for if she's Thea and Roy's kid too (why is she in Star City? Where's Thea? etc. If she's been in Star City long enough to know about whatever event happened, wouldn't they know who she is since she presumably would have been young enough to have someone raising her?), though, or anyone's kid really. And she's got to be someone given the time gap and the fact that Beth and KM were saying that there are twists regarding the character.

[Chaser]

They made such a big deal about KM and her role that I can't imagine she's just an underground broker. There has to me more to her character. Looking at the possibilities, I can't see her being Theory's kid. I don't see it in the casting and I can't see them giving Theory's kid such a 'pivotal' role. The ship, while looked upon fondly, never had a huge impact on the show. I still like Olicity's kid is more likely. I can't get past KM's social media. Her immediately attaching herself to Olicity. Her liking the tweet about Ben being her onscreen brother. Her debut episode and all she tweets about is Felicity, Olicity and Oliver. I don't expect it to make sense, but I still think she's tied to Olicity in some important way.

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I don't expect it to make sense, but I still think she's tied to Olicity in some important way.

LOL, same.

[insomniadreams88]

14 minutes ago, way2interested said:

The same could be said for if she's Thea and Roy's kid too (why is she in Star City? Where's Thea? etc. If she's been in Star City long enough to know about whatever event happened, wouldn't they know who she is since she presumably would have been young enough to have someone raising her?), though, or anyone's kid really. And she's got to be someone given the time gap and the fact that Beth and KM were saying that there are twists regarding the character.

Yep. If she's Thea and Roy's kid, I'd expect William to know of her at the very least, even seen a photo at some point even if they haven't met (for whatever reason). Also, are we to "believe" that their kid has gone evil along with Felicity? Sure, two members of that family (by blood/marriage/etc.) are suddenly totally evil and want to destroy the city? 

I didn't watch Dinah closely enough during the FFs, but is it possible that she knows who Maya is and is trying to see if William does? Sort of a, "hmm, can I still trust him to just follow what I'm saying, does he know her or has he picked up that he might be in front of someone he's related to?" I don't know, I feel like this:

11 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I don't expect it to make sense

is the only way to describe everything FF-related. 

[Mary0360]

14 minutes ago, way2interested said:

The same could be said for if she's Thea and Roy's kid too (why is she in Star City? Where's Thea? etc. If she's been in Star City long enough to know about whatever event happened, wouldn't they know who she is since she presumably would have been young enough to have someone raising her?), though, or anyone's kid really. And she's got to be someone given the time gap and the fact that Beth and KM were saying that there are twists regarding the character.

Considering Thea and Roy have been on the  run it fits a lot more that they wouldn't recognise her or know her.  She returns to the city as a adult for some yet to be divulged reason and learns enough about what's going on. And if she does end up being Olicity's kid then all the storylines to explain it are probably going to make Olicity look like shitty parents.  In which case I'd prefer her to be someone random.

[bijoux]

5 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

Considering Thea and Roy have been on the  run it fits a lot more that they wouldn't recognise her or know her.  She returns to the city as a adult for some yet to be divulged reason and learns enough about what's going on. And if she does end up being Olicity's kid then all the storylines to explain it are probably going to make Olicity look like shitty parents.  In which case I'd prefer her to be someone random.

I don’t remember anything indicating that. Right now they’re on a quest to plug Lazarus tubs around the world or whatever. Was there something pointing to them being on the run in the future?

[way2interested]

7 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

And if she does end up being Olicity's kid then all the storylines to explain it are probably going to make Olicity look like shitty parents.

Any explanation makes at least Roy and possibly also Thea look like terrible parents too and Olicity like terrible relatives. The outcome is still the same

Edited December 5, 2018 by way2interested

[Mary0360]

8 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Yep. If she's Thea and Roy's kid, I'd expect William to know of her at the very least, even seen a photo at some point even if they haven't met (for whatever reason). Also, are we to "believe" that their kid has gone evil along with Felicity? Sure, two members of that family (by blood/marriage/etc.) are suddenly totally evil and want to destroy the city?

I didn't watch Dinah closely enough during the FFs, but is it possible that she knows who Maya is and is trying to see if William does? Sort of a, "hmm, can I still trust him to just follow what I'm saying, does he know her or has he picked up that he might be in front of someone he's related to?" I don't know, I feel like this:

But then shouldn't William equally know his own half sister? And isn't it the same thing as believing that Felicity daughter has gone "evil". I don't even think she's Theroys daughter but there seems to be less plot holes in that scenario. 

 

And if we are suppose to believe that in the flash forwards everyone knows each other but are just pretending not to know each other in even though their in private situations that absolutely don't require them to pretend not to know one another,  then it just demonstrates that the writers are hacks looking for plots at the bottom of the creative barrel. 

[calliope1975]

30 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I don't expect it to make sense, but I still think she's tied to Olicity in some important way.

Even if she's only Felicity's friend (or Felicity's only friend) in the FF, then I'm on her side. I'm still leaning towards kid even though it seems improbable. My dream is it is some long con and she and William are working together and the Canaries are the bads of the future. I'm prepared to be disappointed. (Or maybe William has face blindness or inherited his mother's smarts. Yes, I am grasping at straws!)

5 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

then it just demonstrates that the writers are hacks looking for plots at the bottom of the creative barrel. 

Well....yes. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by calliope1975

[Mary0360]

And if she is their kid then I don't even understand the purpose of there being mystery about her. Two married people having a child is hardly a surprising thing. 

[Chaser]

Frankly, the entire FFs make everyone look shitty.

[JenMD]

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Frankly, the entire FFs make everyone look shitty.

Especially the writers.

[KenyaJ]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

Frankly, the entire FFs make everyone look shitty.

Yep. We should've known this was going to be a shitty, plot-centric mess the minute William implied that Oliver and Felicity abandoned him.

[apinknightmare]

46 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

And if she does end up being Olicity's kid then all the storylines to explain it are probably going to make Olicity look like shitty parents.  

I mean, they already do if William's to be believed!

[Guest]

Let's face it. These flashforwards are a mess and make everyone look shitty and the future depressing. Even if Maya is somehow Olicity's kid, no one knows her so that doesn't bode well for her either being raised by Olicity together or being raised by them at all. If she's Thea and Roy's kid, that kinda confirms that Thea dies and Roy just leaves her in SC and runs off to Lian Yu. Every scenario sucks and Beth is an idiot for thinking this was a good idea, especially when you combine how bleak everything has been in the present at the same time. It's just too much darkness and not enough light and hope. Disaster! 

[tangerine95]

I think they should have just written the flashforwards like normal stories,without the constant mystery and maybe saved them for the very last season.They can't even have characters talk in a normal way because they want everything to be vague.It's a good idea but I'm not liking the execution.And it's really a gamble to reveal such a horrible future because it makes all the good in present day seem like less happy because we know exactly how wrong it all gets.

[insomniadreams88]

[KenyaJ]

This had better mean some domestic Queen family goodness.

[jay741982]

5 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Did she just threaten us with more Dinah 😂

We already get more than enough 

[statsgirl]

13 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I worry that working it out in his mind equals no longer fighting but talking about their problems.  But that the rest of what they need to do, accepting things aren't normal or perfect, that sounds like he's phrasing it as a hope for their future still. 

I will happily be wrong but I'm trying to trench in for the long haul if they drag this out until like episode 15 or 16.   

I'm not very worried as long as I don't remember how long it took to put them together after the split in s4. As DR said, it's 22 episodes this season and they've got to have material to fill them all.

6 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't know if this I true but, I heard that JH mentioned to people at cons how hurt she was that Dinah was hated by fans. If JH knows that Dinah isn't liked you can bet the EPs know as well.

Of course that doesn't explain why they give Dinah so much screentime. It's weird because they've obviously adjusted writing for Rene and BS and have reduced Curtis' role to counteract the S6 hatred. Yet they seem to be doubling down on JH/Dinah.

Part of it may be that it takes a long time to turn a large ship around.  They would have been writing the middle of the season by the time they got feedback that Dinah was on too much and was too annoying so it's too early to tell if they're listening to the feedback or ignoring it.

6 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Did she just threaten us with more Dinah 😂

Hee.  Yes.  (ouch)

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

I'm in the process of reviewing/editing another spoilers addendum to post in the archives thread and I came across these comments...

-- Per EP Beth Schwartz, Oliver & Felicity's marriage will be tested in upcoming episodes: "For their arc [this season], what I like about it the most is we're really going for the real struggles in marriage, so that's kind of where we're approaching their relationship. It's going to feel really authentic." (Nov. 5, 2018 TV Guide article, page 6 of Spoilers thread and page 289 of Starling City Times thread)

-- EBR: "I think her original mindset is a little broken, 'cause it's been sort of jaded and deconstructed, if not completely destroyed... I think the danger is in, has it been completely destroyed, or is it repairable? ... That is pretty much her arc for the season is deciding where now she believes justice and her morals lie, and whether or not she can accomplish that by being the person she was. ... Or does she have to accomplish it now by being the person that she has made herself into?" (Oct. 29, 2018 ETonline article, page 6 of Spoilers thread)

I'm not sure what to make of Beth's comments.

I think they're just trying to make the angst last for the first half of the season.

Felicity changed while Oliver was away and he has to figure out how to deal with it while she has to figure out the same thing in context of their relationship.

In the gala scene in Unmasked, Felicity is running interference for Oliver all through that event. She still loves him and wants to protect him, and I'm holding on to that as a template for the rest of the season.

[Primal Slayer]

It always makes me laugh when they talk about how long a season is because they never put it to good use.

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, I am so torn. It really seems like Maya will be an Olicity baby (especially based around Social Media) and she even looks like an Olicity baby, and she fights and drinks like her dad, and stands up for her mom (well, possible mom and dad) but then it seems weird that she and William have no reaction to each other, or even to the rest of the Future Smug Squad. So, maybe she had to be given up for her own good? Or they thought she died, and really she was kidnapped or something and grew up on the streets? Or something? I just cant buy a future Olicity that sucks so much as parents, and have abandoned both of their kids. These flashforwards are just a pain, and seem part of the shows plan to make Olicity look bad. Maybe as part of a master plan to get us to like their favorites, NTA? Because that sure aint happening, Beth.

[Mellowyellow]

51 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

It always makes me laugh when they talk about how long a season is because they never put it to good use.

I don't understand why they can't write good filler. If it's filler why can't it be entertaining before you reveal whatever secret you have planned. 

I say this as someone who enjoyed the Bee episode in S4.

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Hee.  Yes.  (ouch)

She's got me scared with the threat of Dinah's sour, joyless mug smirking in every episode, every week. Dinah is the big bad of S7! One that survives for the next 20yrs!!! 😱😱😱

[way2interested]

14 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Maybe as part of a master plan to get us to like their favorites, NTA? Because that sure aint happening, Beth.

More like give the main 3 a reason not to be in the flash forwards so they can have more free time. If the newbs were there favorites, Curtis would have had more than 1 one line/appearance last episode and Rene and Dinah would have their own plots instead of being plot pieces to set up things for other people.

[JamieLynn832002]

I'm convinced that they're so committed to the mystery of the ff that by the end nothing is actually going to completely make sense but other than a long con, the only way I can see William and Maya (if she's Olicity's) not knowing each other really making sense without necessarily making Olicity shitty parents is if Samantha's parents get custody before Maya is born/while she's a baby and William, who's already been abandoned/left a million times, interpets that as Olicity abandoning him and cuts off contact. It's still fairly crappy with a lot of plotholes but it might work.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

These flashforwards are just a pain, and seem part of the shows plan to make Olicity look bad. Maybe as part of a master plan to get us to like their favorites, NTA? Because that sure aint happening, Beth.

The more they focus on NTA, Dinah especially, at the expense of Felicity and Diggle, the more my hatred grows. It's laughable how Beth doesn't realize that tbh. They have such a disconnect with their audience, it's unreal.

(Logically, I know Dinah is in the FF because no one cares about her character enough to wonder where she is in 20 years and also because she's one of the newer cast members who they use to film more so SA, EBR and DR don't have to, but that doesn't make her focus/screentime any easier to stomach.)

Anyone else feel like the FF are this season's shiny new character that they're distracted by?

[way2interested]

27 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Anyone else feel like the FF are this season's shiny new character that they're distracted by?

If they were actually distracted, I think the FF would have been in every episode instead of just like half of them

[apinknightmare]

13 minutes ago, way2interested said:

If they were actually distracted, I think the FF would have been in every episode instead of just like half of them

Agreed. And I think it's probably a nice change of pace for them to get to write new people that have connections to the old ones (or ARE the old ones), and writing a mystery is always fun, they just aren't doing a very good job of it, haha. 

[Chaser]

If Star City wasn't a total dumpster fire and it was a team up of Roy and Olicity's children (assuming Maya is their daughter) investigating the disappearance of their supposedly villainous parents, I would be all about it.

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

If Star City wasn't a total dumpster fire and it was a team up of Roy and Olicity's children (assuming Maya is their daughter) investigating the disappearance of their supposedly villainous parents, I would be all about it.

Same. They picked a bad mystery to go with. Especially since I don't want to see any more of it, but I will morbidly watch out of curiosity—not about what's actually happening, but how they're going to explain it. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Chaser said:

If Star City wasn't a total dumpster fire and it was a team up of Roy and Olicity's children (assuming Maya is their daughter) investigating the disappearance of their supposedly villainous parents, I would be all about it.

This. If OTA had gone missing and their kids teamed up to find them, I'd really be enjoying it. The FF now? A mess. 

[Kymmi]

11 hours ago, jenrising said:

She should spend more time trying an acting technique other than scowling, and less time addressing "haters"

JH makes me *almost* look forward to the midseason hiatus.  I didn't think a character could bug me as much as LL1 (grudging enjoy current LL2) but she is too much.  I don't understand the large does of her.  Couldn't they spread some of those lines around?  She's not really contributing a ton to the storylines, either.  I will never understand the writers on this show.

[SmallScreenDiva]

16 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

It seemed to me she was reading the arrow tag and got in her feelings

Well, she’s GA’s boss now, sort of. I’m gonna guess we’re getting more of that amazing comic partnership 🙄 She and Stephen were dull AF even though she was giving that inappropriate smolder her all in the last ep.  (She was also doing it to Big William that I kinda worried she’d jump the kid) 

[Mary0360]

Honestly don't like the character or the actress so I'm really praying to all the gods she's fucking evil in the FFs so maybe they can kill her off.

[olicityfan25]

Never have a cheered more (apart from LL dying) than when Maya went up to that smug face and told her off.

Edited December 6, 2018 by olicityfan25