Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[Carrie Ann]

I found it sort of funny in that scene with Sara and Laurel, when Sara says, "This life--it's complicated," and Laurel says (with a big dumb smile on her face), "We didn't want you to choose it." It's almost like the writers had to say that to wave off the other Big Dumb Smile scene between them in the finale, where Laurel seemed more than happy to see her sister back off to join the LoA. Because, jacket!

 

So all of Laurel's tears this season will seem empty and false to me, just like everything else about that character.

 

I'm so frustrated that the writers can't seem to come up with alternate storytelling devices than murder. I know it's a show with high stakes, but there are stakes other than death. There are high drama scenarios that don't require killing another beloved (in this case female & queer) character. 

[Sakura12]

I think the only minds they really changed are the ones that were indifferent to Laurel now resent her. People will still watch of course but now even more people hate Laurel then ever before.

Also let me get this straight, Moira's dead, Shado's dead, Sara's dead, but Slade's alive. That's a great message, Oliver will try to save all the villains (Slade, Helena's dad) while everyone else gets murdered.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Sakura12

[blixie]

 

How they love Caity and love Sara and there's so much story left to tell...well if there was that much story left to tell WTF did you kill her off?  What I'm supposed to care about how she met/fell in love with Nyssa all the while knowing that she's dead?!

 

They have been trying to find a way to have their cake and eat it too since they introduced her last year. They didn't want to "lose" Caity as Sara, but they wanted to gain Laurel as BC. They're hoping Sara/Caity fans will tune in to see Sara/Caity, while they can have Laurel now fully motivated and on the way to becoming BC to avenge/honor Sara. They as ever simply refuse to concede what a big mistake it was to EVER have brought back Sara into the picture, and then after having done so, to sacrifice her on the alter of Laurel's journey. Given that it is pretty typical in comic book writing (different people merely 'inheriting' a moniker/heroic persona) I guess I shouldn't be that surprised TPTB think this is fine.

 

I was always pretty mentally prepared for this Sara stuff to happen sooner or later, so I'm not bitter about it, I'm more bitter about how many times I have to hear the same fucking speech out of Oliver about being aloooooone and making all the decisions and he can't let anyone else take risks except for how the risks are the same regardless of whether or not he's putting his dick in someone are not, or being nice to his sister, or loving his mom. Jesus tap dancing Christ Oliver, get OVER it.

Edited October 9, 2014 by blixie

[ohjoy]

From the Relationships Thread:

 

Laurel and Oliver are dangerous people to be around basically. 

 

Oliver makes sense. You know, vigilantism can cause trouble. 

 

But Laurel, man, she's just like the grim reaper. 

A gleeful, grinning grim reaper. (I wonder what fashion-forward attire goes with a sickle?)

[SonofaBiscuit]

Most people are nicer than me because I'm hoping that this show's ratings take a noticeable hit in the coming weeks (not enough to be cancelled but enough for the EPs to take notice).  Do I think that this would make a difference?  Mmm, probably not considering the fact that the EPs know that Laurel is disliked and have admitted as much.  Even if they didn't know, all they would have to do is take a quick look around online.  Laurel continues to win worst character awards in polls, I've seen her on two separate worst character lists, and she gets a lot of hate in general all over the internet (IMO).  The EPs blindly ignore all of this, so they'd probably ignore decreased ratings as well.

 

I'm going to do what I did in the back half of season two of Arrow.  The episodes will go on my DVR, and I will come here to read episode comments.  Then I'll wait at least three days to watch the episode and I'll be sure to fast forward through commercials.  It probably won't make a difference because I don't have one of those Nielsen box thingys, but it will make me feel better.

[Sakura12]

Being realistic I know the ratings won't suffer. People really love Olicity so that'll be what people are watching for. However that will now come with more Laurel and her "journey". So I wish everyone here good luck with that. 

Edited October 9, 2014 by Sakura12

[ban1o]

I think the only minds they really changed are the ones that were indifferent to Laurel now resent her. People will still watch of course but now even more people hate Laurel then ever before.

Also let me get this straight, Moira's dead, Shado's dead, Sara's dead, but Slade's alive. That's a great message, Oliver will try to save all the villains (Slade, Helena's dad) while everyone else gets murdered.

+Tommy, and Yao Fei. I wonder if Oliver will be so adamant about letting Ra's Al Guhl live lol. 

[ohjoy]

The more I think about it, the more irritating it is to me that they couldn't at least give Sara an heroic sendoff, even if they had to keep all the other "setting up the season's mystery / emotional arc" crap in there. The could have easily gone with something like:

 

Sara hears her name and turns around, recognizing the (offcamera) speaker.

He says something like "You have eluded (or whatever word for escaped) me for the last time."

She squares her shoulders defiantly and says "I did what I came to do."

Arrows. Fall. (No dumpster.) End scene.

 

Or even:

Sara hears her name and turns around, recognizing the (offcamera) speaker.

Arrows. She stumbles backward to the ledge. A fist reaches out grabs her.

He says something like "You have eluded (or whatever word for escaped) me for the last time."

Amidst her dying gaze she steels her face and defiantly says "I did what I came to do."

The hand flings her over the ledge.

Fall. (No dumpster.) End scene.

 

Either of those (or countless better-conceived scenes) would have allowed Sara to not be sucker-punched to death. It would have set a mystery of who killed Sara and why, fed into the "it's complicated" comment she had just made to Laurel (with something more than a seeming, "Oh, you know -- relationships"), and given her even the tiniest measure of agency at the end. And would have been less gimmicky than "Turn -- Surpise! She's dead."

 

This is me, struggling to find some measure of something that could have made that scene even remotely tolerable. I'll be here all week.

[ban1o]

@RandomMe Thatès my problem too. Like I kinda knew she was probably going to die eventually and kinda accepted it (Even though I loved Sara) but the way her death was done was just pathetic. It should have been a heroic death, saving someone or something. But  I guess they wanted a "mystery" or whatever to drive the plot of season 3. 

[dtissagirl]

@Sakura12 is completely right -- the image of Sara falling onto a dumpster is in the same scene where her mask falls at Laurel's feet. If the mask is symbolic then so is falling onto a garbage can. I'm sure it was completely unintentional, but the picture it paints is Sara is trash, Laurel is what matters. And that is hugely problematic.

Edited October 9, 2014 by dancingnancy

[wonderwall]

[Moved from The Calm thread]

 

You know what's ridiculously hilarious?

 

They wanted to set up a mystery about who killed Sara. But no one gives a damn because they're too busy reeling from that slap in the face and resenting Laurel to even care who killed her.

 

Plan: Backfired.

 

You know what would've made this season a lot tighter? If Laurel was killed. Not because she's the weakest link, but because she now requires more screentime and attention. If Laurel was killed, we wouldn't need to bring in Ted Grant, an extra character that serves no purpose other than to build Laurel up, and we wouldn't need to give her extra screentime that takes away from the plot just to make her a viable BC.

 

If Laurel died, Sara could've gone down that dark path in order to avenge Laurel, then she could've changed her name in order to honor Laurel with her new goal, to be the hero Laurel thought she could be.We wouldn't have to see Sara train, we wouldn't have to see Sara flirt with random people. We're already seeing Sara and her flashbacks and Laurel's death would've made her flashbacks more poignant.

 

The situation could've fit so perfectly, SO PERFECTLY. But the show created a mess out of this situation.

[Danny Franks]

So I knew these writers were losing the plot, just from the spoilers that have come out over the summer. They'd already convinced me not to bother watching, for at least the first few episodes. Now they're essentially telling me that they're prepared to sacrifice whatever it takes to make Laurel Lance happen.

 

No thanks. It truly beggars belief that they can be so utterly, completely, pig-headedly tone deaf to the reactions that their characters have had from fans. They decided that Laurel was worth killing Tommy for, now they decided she's worth killing Sarah for, and honestly, I don't see anyone other than Oliver who I would consider safe from Death By Laurel. I don't care to watch and find out.

 

It's funny, but this is the thing that most people on here, and on TWoP, were worried about all last season. That a vibrant, interesting, sympathetic character would be killed off for that fucking mess of a woman. And just when it seemed like she was safe, boom. I bet the writers are giggling with glee over having pulled the wool over so many peoples' eyes. Kind of makes me want to see the show crash and burn in season 3, just to teach them a lesson.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Sakura12]

[Moved from The Calm thread]

 

You know what's ridiculously hilarious?

 

They wanted to set up a mystery about who killed Sara. But no one gives a damn because they're too busy reeling from that slap in the face and resenting Laurel to even care who killed her.

 

Plan: Backfired.

 

It's not a mystery. Sara's dead because of Laurel that is the only thing I'll ever get out of that storyline. 

 

It's even better when you read the responses to Andrew Kreisberg's tweet "Who killed Canary?". Some people are guessing, but most of them are going with "You" or to "Laurel to make her relevant"

[doesntworkonwood]

Maybe people die after telling Laurel that she's 'always trying to save the world' because some magical force smites them for being such massive fucking liars.

 

Laurel Lance, always trying to save the world, unless she's too busy letting the darkness inside and blackmailing people. 

[Danny Franks]

It's not a mystery. Sara's dead because of Laurel that is the only thing I'll ever get out of that storyline. 

 

It's even better when you read the responses to Andrew Kreisberg's tweet "Who killed Canary?". Some people are guessing, but most of them are going with "You" or to "Laurel to make her relevant"

 

Pretty much. We know why Sara is dead, and it's not for story reasons at all. It's because they're clutching at every straw they have to make people care about Laurel. Her crusading lawyer gig didn't work. Tommy dying didn't work. Her descent into pills and booze (for about thirty five minutes) didn't work. Her bitchiness over Sara being alive certainly didn't work. So what's next? Um, start killing her family? That'll make people care about her, right?

 

Wrong. People who don't care about Laurel will never care about Laurel. It's too late in the day to try and fix a character that has never worked. I hope people are tweeting sentiments like this to the showrunners.

[calliope1975]

It seems they'll just keep killing off characters in an attempt to make Laurel relevant. I'm kind of joking but mostly not. I would no longer be surprised to see Diggle or Felicity sacrificed. (Not Roy, though, he's still in sidekick mode.) I doubt Lance or River Song are safe. What better way to motivate a "hero" than to kill off all their family members?  /rolls eyes 

[Chairman Meow]

Being realistic I know the ratings won't suffer. People really love Olicity so that'll be what people are watching for. However that will now come with more Laurel and her "journey". So I wish everyone here good luck with that. 

I've actually been surprised to see so many avowed Olicity fans (who have not previously been vocal Sara fans) declaring that it now makes no difference to them if Oliver and Felicity get together or not, they are done with the show due to Sara's ridiculous death. 

I think the EPs may find that teasing Olicity did not buy them enough goodwill to keep the Sara fans tuning in. 

[writersblock51]

 

No thanks. It truly beggars belief that they can be so utterly, completely, pig-headedly tone deaf to the reactions that their characters have had from fans. They decided that Laurel was worth killing Tommy for, now they decided she's worth killing Sarah for, and honestly, I don't see anyone other than Oliver who I would consider safe from Death By Laurel. I don't care to watch and find out.

 

Don't forget Kate Spencer - her death was indirectly connected to Laurel but also conveniently opens up a big position at the DA's office.

 

At this point, I think everyone but Oliver is at risk.  This could very well be like HIMYM where the ending has been so predetermined that nothing that happens in the middle really matters.

 

The notion that KC is as safe as the lead of the show concerns me from a creative aspect.  Having to consistently keep her on, when nothing has gone over as a big hit with fans & critics, invites one problem after another.  The entire show is now vulnerable to being tweaked to accommodate her.  Why?  Why is she considered so special to this show?  It cannot be all due to Laurel = Black Canary Selective Canon Crap because everything about Season 2 contradicts that.  The show knows that she's not popular, or, at least, not as popular as EBR and CL. 

 

Hell, I think WH/Thea would be accepted as Black Canary before Laurel would. That's how bad this is.  The pixie sized little sister of the hero could fill in that role at some point.  Forget about "Speedy."  I'm all for Thea being an option. She's gone through more crazy shit than Laurel has, she's now being trained by Malcolm, intensely, we can assume, she's already a skilled archer (from what we've heard, not seen, but that really doesn't matter on this show, does it?) and she will have plenty of motivation.

 

The show is going to suffer because of this bizarre obsession with KC it has.  I feel bad for Stephen Amell, I really do.  Most of the cast works their butts off to make a stellar show. The stunt crew and so on - all tops - even Emmy-deserving.  But... because of one bad casting decision, a long series of writing snafus and questionable acting skills, the show is off my family's "Must Watch" list. 

 

Sara's death, and all the aspects of it, left that bad of taste in our mouths.  We don't want to keep thinking everyone but Oliver and Laurel are on a Death Watch.  It's stressful, not enjoyable in the least and, at this point, inferior to the competition. 

 

Unlike when the show started in '12, Arrow now has competition.  Maybe not in the same category for stunts and established relationships but compelling shows nonetheless.  Why on earth would I invest 40+ minutes into a weekly show that I know I'm going to be pissed off about when it's over?  I'm not talking about 'being passionate,' either. I've been passionate about the show since the pilot.

 

I'm talking about Fuck This, I'm watching something else tonight.  or catching up on the shows on the DVR from the previous 2 nights.  The show that started the recent crop of enjoyable superhero/comic book shows is on a lifeline with me & my family. 

 

I'll watch for a few more episodes but it's strictly DVR and the FF button for me.  If I end up FFing more than a few minutes per episode, though, I'm just going to stop watch altogether.

 

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh. I need a nap. or wine or something. 

[HighwayFlower]

They know they messed up any chance for Laurel by bringing Sara onto the show. They probably hope that by a quick death people will be pissed but get over it, and that without any live competition people will accept her.

[Danny Franks]

It seems they'll just keep killing off characters in an attempt to make Laurel relevant. I'm kind of joking but mostly not. I would no longer be surprised to see Diggle or Felicity sacrificed. (Not Roy, though, he's still in sidekick mode.) I doubt Lance or River Song are safe. What better way to motivate a "hero" than to kill off all their family members?  /rolls eyes 

 

And it actually seems completely self-defeating, because from the few bits I've read in this forum over the summer, it seemed like people were at least resigned to Laurel being around, and kind of accepting it. Now? The hate will be reignited, and anyone who liked Sara will probably be even more anti-Laurel than they were when it seemed like they might one day kill Sara.

 

The notion that KC is as safe as the lead of the show concerns me from a creative aspect.  Having to consistently keep her on, when nothing has gone over as a big hit with fans & critics, invites one problem after another.  The entire show is now vulnerable to being tweaked to accommodate her.  Why?  Why is she considered so special to this show?  It cannot be all due to Laurel = Black Canary Selective Canon Crap because everything about Season 2 contradicts that.  The show knows that she's not popular, or, at least, not as popular as EBR and CL.

 

 

It is truly baffling. Because so many people watching (including plenty of critics) saw that they'd made a mess of Laurel. Even the showrunners themselves admitted it, and promised they'd fix her in season 2. They never did. They made her worse. And even more than that, they made her look crappy when compared to her sister, who was accepted very quickly by fans.

 

Now I'm sorry, but when you are faced with your fanbase rejecting your chosen heroine, and embracing first Felicity and then Sara, instead of Laurel, you have a choice to make. You might not like it, but the right decision is to go with the characters that people like, the characters that work. You can't keep trying to force something that's broken, and act like it's shiny and wonderful. People aren't stupid.

 

I have no clue what makes her so important. None at all. She plays a tangential character, she's a mediocre actor, she isn't a good PR asset, she has no producing credit or, as far as I'm aware, other creative input. Why is she still there?

Edited October 9, 2014 by Danny Franks

[discoduck227]

To me, the worst thing is that Sara didn't even get to go down fighting. Which is what she would do. She just stood there. And then the mask fell at Laurel's feet and the anvil hit my head.....as if I needed one.

 

I'm sorry EPs but killing Sara off still doesn't make Laurel relevant. I don't care and you can't make me. Bleh.

[Sakura12]

Why did they invest so much time into the Sara character (more than Laurel and she had 1 season up on her) only to toss her away like she was nothing? What was the point of them wasting so much screentime on Sara's story of suffering and survival to hero, if she was going to die so stupidly? 

 

I think it's really the dumpster thing that is bothering me more than anything else. The only way to see that is them taking out the trash. 

[shadow2008]

@RandomMe Thatès my problem too. Like I kinda knew she was probably going to die eventually and kinda accepted it (Even though I loved Sara) but the way her death was done was just pathetic. It should have been a heroic death, saving someone or something. But  I guess they wanted a "mystery" or whatever to drive the plot of season 3. 

 

A heroic death would have been ideal for sure, but even if she couldn't have that for reasons, Sara has always been a fighter. So, the one thing I would have asked for in terms of a death scene is that Sara goes down fighting. Have the mystery archer show up behind her and shoot a couple of arrows in her direction. Sara manages to elude the arrows, but gets scratched by one of them. Then a fight scene ensues and Sara starts to weaken because the arrows were laced with poison. That allows the mystery archer to get the upper hand and kill her. Would it still have sucked to see Sara being murdered? Sure, but at least she would have put up a fight and died with dignity. Now, she literally died like a deer in headlights, but I guess the writers couldn't give us anything better because anything resembling a fight scene would have given us a clue as to who the killer was. This is why plot-driven writing sucks so bad. It cripples the characters.

[calliope1975]

I think it's really the dumpster thing that is bothering me more than anything else. The only way to see that is them taking out the trash. 

 

That part really struck me as overly cruel. They could have cut to Sara on the ground instead of showing that scene. Even watching a straight fall would have been better than literally hitting a dumpster on the way down. Sara was a BAMF and if they just had to kill her, there were other, more dignified ways to do so.

[Trini]

I'm like only halfway invested in this show, but even I'm upset with killing off Sara.

 

I think what I'm most bitter about is the interviews that have come out after the episode.  The callus way in which MG joked about how great CL was at playing a dead body...WTF?

Same thing happened when they killed off (in a horrific manner) the female love interest on Prison Break. The producers were bragging about how they killed her "awesomely", while being completely tone-deaf to how much the character was liked. (They eventually backtracked and brought back the character.) Do TPTB really not realize no one wants to see great character horribly murdered??

 

Why did they invest so much time into the Sara character (more than Laurel and she had 1 season up on her) only to toss her away like she was nothing? What was the point of them wasting so much screentime on Sara's story of suffering and survival to hero, if she was going to die so stupidly?

It's ridiculous. They brought in this awesome, heroic (well, she worked with the good guys) character that was well-recieved; she wasn't even around that long, and they kill her off.

 

This also reminds of Person of Interest, in which they killed off a female character who got replaced by another. At least Carter had an exit arc and went out like a Boss.

[statsgirl]

I think Laurel is safe along with Oliver.  If they're willing to kill off Tommy, Kate Spencer and Sara to prop her, they're will to kill Diggle, and Felicity, along with Thea and Quentin.  They are determined to make her the star of the show, not matter if it kills it.

lol that won't bring her back to life though so what's the point? 

The EPs need to know that part of the audience is not excited to see Laurel motivated to take on Sara's role, or wonder who killed Sara.  Their blindness killed Sara.

 

They have been trying to find a way to have their cake and eat it too since they introduced her last year. They didn't want to "lose" Caity as Sara, but they wanted to gain Laurel as BC. They're hoping Sara/Caity fans will tune in to see Sara/Caity, while they can have Laurel now fully motivated and on the way to becoming BC to avenge/honor Sara. 

I hope this turns into a massive fail, because that is what they deserve.

 

No thanks. It truly beggars belief that they can be so utterly, completely, pig-headedly tone deaf to the reactions that their characters have had from fans. They decided that Laurel was worth killing Tommy for, now they decided she's worth killing Sarah for, and honestly, I don't see anyone other than Oliver who I would consider safe from Death By Laurel. I don't care to watch and find out.

I thought AK and MG felt like that, but I'm truly surprised at Greg Berlanti.  Or did he concentrate too much on his other shows to appreciate what an idiotic move t his was?

 

I hope this does bite them in the ass. Big time.

[FurryFury]

This also reminds of Person of Interest, in which they killed off a female character who got replaced by another. At least Carter had an exit arc and went out like a Boss.

 

Carter's death was a whole different can of worms. I get why people are upset, but her death was the right decision, imo. She was associated with a certain part of the show (the crime/police storyline) that simply stopped being relevant by season 3, but removing her from it, or taking her out of the action completely would have been pretty out of character. It sucks that she had to die, but she didn't die to prop anyone up, and none of the female characters that got added to the main cast in s3 are any worse that her. With Sara, it's just dumb and stupid and completely upsetting. I still can't believe it happened so soon, and that the writers still can't get rid of their Laurel permaboner.

Edited October 9, 2014 by FurryFury

[wonderwall]

Do you guys remember Colton Haynes saying that Sara is heading down a darker path?

 

He is officially the biggest troll on this planet. :p 

 

Fishnets are impractical and stupid and just trashy (imo). That's all I have to say about that. 

[writersblock51]

 

Their blindness killed Sara.

 

it is ironic to me that the show that had an episode called "The Blind Spot" concerning the character and actress that it has a blind spot about.

[Happy Harpy]

 

I hope people are tweeting sentiments like this to the showrunners.

I'm not on Twitter, because I'm an oldie and I make a principle out of not being into that "social networking" thing...but if all the show viewers, all over the world, who can't stand Lady Voldemort united to make a "We don't want your stinkin' Laurel" trend, I think I'd consider creating an account just for that.

 

I've actually been surprised to see so many avowed Olicity fans (who have not previously been vocal Sara fans) declaring that it now makes no difference to them if Oliver and Felicity get together or not, they are done with the show due to Sara's ridiculous death.

I think they might have woken up and smelled the coffee.

I personally am beyond pissed off that Sara, a character I liked, was killed like that, but beyond that, there's the significance for the show and its direction. And I'm quite certain that most people are upset because they genuinely liked Sara.

 

But, as an Oliver/Felicity-a- a-romantic-pairing fan since yesterday, when I look at the facts, what do I see?  They put the relationship on hold for contrived bullshit. Moreover

Felicity will be the one with a harem this year, imo, plus all the hype about Ray a a love interest and he's going to be on for 14 or something fucking too many episodes

. All of this screams "watch, dumbasses, for the maybes we're dangling, while we're preparing a never for you to put deep where the sun doesn't shine".

 

 There's a bigger issue also, imo, that I think some of us (on TWOP *sobs*, but less *sobs* because here is great, too) mentioned at Tommy's death and even more around season 2-B, i-e the readiness of the EPs to sacrifice anything and everything, including what works better for the show, to the altar of their fanboys hard-on for Laurel-Lance-the-Black-Canary-and-Oliver's-soulmate (in the 70's sense of the word =unhealthy).

 

Sara's death is imo another piece of evidence of how much they're ready to sacrifice.And that's a fucking lot. I mean, they finally had a Black Canary that people mostly loved as the badass fighter (although, I think, not as Oliver's SO) -from what I've seen on the net on the mainstream TV sites.  Yet they fridged her, coldly...and the only reason I can think of is, because her first name wasn't "Laurel'. I can understand how shippers would feel very worried about what sounds very much like a "because -some outdated version- of  the comic". Personally, I wanted to believe that Diggle and Felicity were safe, but I don't think they are anymore. I think that nothing and no one is, and actually, I'm not even sure that Oliver is safe...as least, as a character that people can root for, since his characterization has already suffered because of Laurel (end of S1, for example) and I think it could be the ultimate victim of the "Laurel" (as an idea) worship.

 

And I see that they killed Tommy, and they killed Moira, and they killed Sara, and it would be to long to detail all that those characters brought and could bring in terms of storylines and character development for Oliver and all that Laurel didn't, doesn't, will never bring. So I won't put past them to pull a "HIMYM", and destroy everything in the last episode.

 

So I'm full of bitterness right now, because I still love and enjoy what the show does right, they have my favorite female character not named Dana Scully, Audrey Horne or Arya Stark, they have my favorite team (I watched CSI:NY for years because I loved the team) and the cast and crew seem so dedicated...but I hate the message the EPs just sent. And at my age, I should know better.

So I honestly don't know if I'll go on watching or not. I saw the preview, and there was another "Emmy-worthy" -if you know what I mean, and I think you do- performance. Not an incentive, at all.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[ban1o]

Do you guys remember Colton Haynes saying that Sara is heading down a darker path?

 

He is officially the biggest troll on this planet. :p 

 

 

lol yep. I am still mad at him. All his comments made me feel like Sara maybe wouldn't die . I guess death can be considered a "darker" path. 

[icandigit]

I don't have anything new to add"

 

• Olicity separation feels contrived
• Laurel focused show
• Potential sidelining of Diggle
• Loss of Sara

 

Not really rushing to watch the season. No amazon season pass for you arrow. Still happy I didn't do one last season. Maybe I should turn my energy to Gotham.

[statsgirl]

it is ironic to me that the show that had an episode called "The Blind Spot" concerning the character and actress that it has a blind spot about.

If anything, they are patting themselves on the back for lampshading it.

 

But, as an Oliver/Felicity-a- a-romantic-pairing fan since yesterday, when I look at the facts, what do I see?  They put the relationship on hold for contrived bullshit. Moreover

Felicity will be the one with a harem this year, imo, plus all the hype about Ray a a love interest and he's going to be on for 14 or something fucking too many episodes

. All of this screams "watch, dumbasses, for the maybes we're dangling, while we're preparing a never for you to put deep where the sun doesn't shine".

Another lampshade, as Felicity says "don't keep me dangling", they prepare to dangle the audience forever.

 

ETA:  I tried Gotham but it's too violent for me and the only character I liked was Cat.

Edited October 9, 2014 by statsgirl

[Danny Franks]

I don't have anything new to add"

 

• Olicity separation feels contrived
• Laurel focused show
• Potential sidelining of Diggle
• Loss of Sara

 

Not really rushing to watch the season. No amazon season pass for you arrow. Still happy I didn't do one last season. Maybe I should turn my energy to Gotham.

 

Gotham is pretty good. It's still finding its feet, and the characters need some fleshing out, but the potential is there, and Ben McKenzie is good at playing a hero who isn't tortured by manpain and a terrible past, and who hasn't (so far) sabotaged all his relationships out of some twisted need to be miserable. He's just a good guy trying to do good things, and encountering obstacles at every turn. And hey, for those annoyed at Arrow killing a gay woman, Gotham has two who are very much alive. Well, one is bisexual.

 

As for the points you make, it's been obvious to me all summer that Oliver/Felicity being apart would be contrived. I've yet to see a show start pushing a 'will they, won't they' storyline that hasn't felt contrived within the first few episodes. Writers in television are just terrified of romance, because a show thirty years ago got cancelled. 

Edited October 9, 2014 by Danny Franks

[willpwr]

I can now understand SA's reaction to people complaining about the poster a lot more. Didn't he say he was going to take a break from social media before SDCC and some people were wondering what was wrong? If we're bitter, I can't imagine how some of the cast might feel that the person that gets the most hate is getting things handed to her on a silver platter. I honestly don't even know what to say at this point except that I'm going to be taking a break from watching Arrow for a few weeks. It's been nice talking to all of you, I'll be back soon.

[quarks]

I'm bitter, because I see I'm now in for a full season of "OMG, FELICITY'S GOING TO DIE, FELICITY'S GOING TO DIE!"

[Happy Harpy]

As for the points you make, it's been obvious to me all summer that Oliver/Felicity being apart would be contrived. I've yet to see a show start pushing a 'will they, won't they' storyline that hasn't felt contrived within the first few episodes. Writers in television are just terrified of romance, because a show thirty years ago got cancelled. 

And it got cancelled because they broke up the leads after the act and created an arrrgh stupid triangle -even though it involved B.Willis and M.Harmon-  instead of having them together. And yes, you're right, considering how organic Oliver and Felicity are, once they were officially on the romance road it was obvious that they'd be broken-up for contrivance only. But I kind of hoped that TPTB, being professional writers, would easily blindside me with a zomigod incredibly smart idea to trump the cliché. 

ETA: I would watch Gotham, but I boycott Jada Pinkett-Smith.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[ohjoy]

Another lampshade, as Felicity says "don't keep me dangling", they prepare to dangle the audience forever.

This got me thinking -- with Felicity as a stand-in for the audience, and Oliver for the showrunners -- that conversation is rather in-character for both sides. Hmm.

[icandigit]

 

ETA: I would watch Gotham, but I boycott Jada Pinkett-Smith.

lmao

[HighwayFlower]

Taking Sara out of it, I cant say there was much else about the episode I liked. Seemed like everyone was acting a little forced.... Felicity delivered some cute lines, but even her and Oliver didn't flow as naturally as they used too. Ray was way over the top acting and Laurel was even more smug then usual. Seems they lost something over the break.

[moviewhore]

I'm bitter about Arrow because I've lost three shows I liked-White Collar, Rush, and Longmire along with Dallas thru cancellations and have lost interest in many more shows lately.  Arrow was the one CW show I drop everything to watch and is the only show on the CW I'm interested in-The Originals is strictly background for me.  So killing off another character to further someone's journey, to be that predictable and dull storytelling-wise is baffling to me.  It's lazy as fuck and shows that the only way to progress anyone's tale is to fridge someone.  Really, why couldn't Sara have shown Laurel the ropes of being the Canary and then she can go wherever?  Have that bond and stisterhood be present instead of haing Sara be dropped off a building next to a dumpster like trash?  Fuck the writers for that imagery and symbolism and making that be the moment Laurel becomes the Canary having not worked at it.  To have the mask land at her feet so easily?  What bullshit. 

 

The writers know that KC and Laurel aren't beloved by fans and yet here they go with Laurel's big journey at the expense of her sister. 

 

 

[Danny Franks]

And it got cancelled because they broke up the leads after the act and created an arrrgh stupid triangle -even though it involved B.Willis and M.Harmon-  instead of having them together. And yes, you're right, considering how organic Oliver and Felicity are, once they were officially on the romance road it was obvious that they'd be broken-up for contrivance only. But I kind of hoped that TPTB, being professional writers, would easily blindside me with a zomigod incredibly smart idea to trump the cliché. 

ETA: I would watch Gotham, but I boycott Jada Pinkett-Smith.

 

Yeah, but most TV writers are far too eager to cling on to the cheap excuse. It's killed more shows than anything else, in my view. I've said it until I'm blue in the face, but a show that devotes all its creative energies to keep the two leads apart is absolutely doomed to fail when they eventually get together. Because by the time it happens, all the ideas are gone, and they've been thrown together in a desperate attempt to keep fans watching. The only ones that survive are those like Bones, where watching has become such a habit for casual viewers that the ratings stay strong.

 

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure Jada Pinkett-Smith is a one-season-wonder, on Gotham. She'll be offed by either Carmine Falcone or Penguin, I'd put money on it right now.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Danny Franks

[statsgirl]

I'm bitter, because I see I'm now in for a full season of "OMG, FELICITY'S GOING TO DIE, FELICITY'S GOING TO DIE!"

 

That's what was said last season about Sara, and look what happened -- she died.

Yeah, but most TV writers are far too eager to cling on to the cheap excuse. It's killed more shows than anything else, in my view. I've said it until I'm blue in the face, but a show that devotes all its creative energies to keep the two leads apart is absolutely doomed to fail when they eventually get together. Because by the time it happens, all the ideas are gone, and they've been thrown together in a desperate attempt to keep fans watching. The only ones that survive are those like Bones, where watching has become such a habit for casual viewers that the ratings stay strong.

Too true.  It seems like the only way to have a decent couple on a show is to start out with them together, like Hart To Hart.  Or maybe Diggle and Lyla.

 

Arrow doesn't do relationships well, that's a given.  Why don't they give  themselves an easy out and go with the easiest, best-chemistry relationship on the show and concentrate on the action stuff?

[Password]

I'm ok with Oliver and Felicity being apart. Oliver being out of a romantic relationship is what I've been crying for since that shambolic Sara-Oliver relationship. He said himself he's not ready. He has to sort himself out before he gets into any relationship otherwise it'll always crash and burn.

 

What I don't like is the annoying triangle thing. I'd much rather she moved on and Oliver supported her decision than some strange, contrived triangle I have zero interest in. Twilight scarred me for life concerning triangles and they generally make me dislike the character in the middle of it. (If they make me dislike Felicity they have failed this show...you know other than the ways it's been failed)

 

So yes, I hope the show treads lightly because contrived angst gets old very quickly. Not just that, but that's not what Olicity's about. They are good together, unlike other "epic" couples on tv nowadays.

[Happy Harpy]

I couldn't agree more. I once hoped that Castle (that was sold initially as a "they will") would break the curse. Alas...

That's why I'm so bitter right now. The Arrow writers struck gold twice, or thrice. With Oliver/Diggle, then with Oliver/Felicity, then with Diggle/Felicity. How many shows died because of lack of chemistry, only?  How many had better, more original or compelling storytelling, but didn't make it because the characters didn't resonate with the audience?  Arrow's TPTB  were incredibly lucky/had a wonderful casting team. And yet, I have the feeling they don't truly treasure their luck/the great casting work, and use Team Arrow only as a bait...even against their audience.

I love Roy, and I love Thea, and I always did. But I'm well aware that they aren't a Diggle (as universally loved as you can be in the Arrow fandom, it seems) or a Felicity (voted favorite character above Oliver, hugely popular in the fandom at least on the net, it seems); and they aren't as central to the show as Felicity and Diggle are for me.  And yet, I have the feeling that they are more protected because Roy and Speedy are comic book characters. I don't think it's right.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[icandigit]

Last season I was afraid the show peaked in the beginning of season 2. After the premiere I'm starting to suspect it's true. I know they subscribe to the  everything but the kitchen sink method of storytelling, but as others have mentioned it was disjointed. A better show would have given the story in the premiere more time to breathe. I guess I shouldn't hate on them too much. It's not like they are Under the Dome of something.

[catrox14]

From the Relationships Thread:

 

A gleeful, grinning grim reaper. (I wonder what fashion-forward attire goes with a sickle?)

 

The Grin-Reaper, amirite?  Where is Death when we need him?

[quarks]

Statsgirl, I'm not arguing that Felicity won't die. I think it's unlikely - unlike Sara/Lotz, Felicity/EBR has been touted/lauded as a breakout star and the reason Arrow has lasted; her relationship with Oliver is one of the most popular parts of the show and the one that gets a lot of press; and she's still the show's main comic relief, unless the show decides to put Ray in that position.  She had far more screentime than Laurel did this past episode, and the EPs are clearly using the character to help promote two shows, not one.  

 

But there's a pretty big gap between "I think it's unlikely" and "it will never happen," and this show just killed off a generally popular character for the sake of an unpopular character, which is why I'm bracing for a full season of people saying "Oooh, I think Felicity's going to die soon/end of the season," something I'm going to enjoy even less than the actual death, I fear, especially since my counterarguments are pretty weak.

[Chairman Meow]

 So I won't put past them to pull a "HIMYM", and destroy everything in the last episode.

 

Oh - I can see it now!  Penultimate episode will be Oliver and Felicity getting married - series finale will open with Oliver waking up on the Island and fondling his picture of Laurel... "What a weird dream." 

[Danny Franks]

Oh - I can see it now!  Penultimate episode will be Oliver and Felicity getting married - series finale will open with Oliver waking up on the Island and fondling his picture of Laurel... "What a weird dream." 

 

Nah. Oliver and Felicity get married, and as they're driving off on their honeymoon, Slade blows up the car. Oliver survives, but Felicity dies in his arms, and the show ends with Laurel turning up at the hospital where he's being treated to say, "don't worry, I'm here for you. I've always been here for you."

 

The ultimate troll ending.