Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[dtissagirl]

The only thing these writers take into account is reviews, so far very few have been in her favor. I really hope this is a last ditch effort to make her work & or to meet contractual obligations. 

 

This is a really good point. I really do feel like the throw-everything-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks way of writing Laurel is because the EPs hope some day one thing they try will strike a positive note from ONE pro critic and they'll feel validated by that single review and go LOOKIE WE DID IT.

Edited October 15, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Sakura12]

I wonder if John Campea from the Arrow Aftershow will stop watching the show when Laurel becomes insta-Canary like he said he would if that happened? They are at his work studio now doing it. He did stop watching Agents of SHIELD. 

[Chaser]

I think instanta-Canary is going to be meet with a huge backlash. Its too easy, its too fast and its too much. Most everything else is written well so when one thing is consistently missing the mark it stands out in a big way. I hope the fans/critics have a field day with this.

[JJ928]

This is a really good point. I really do feel like the throw-everything-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks way of writing Laurel is because the EPs hope some day one thing they try will strike a positive note from ONE pro critic and they'll feel validated by that single review and go LOOKIE WE DID IT.

 

This is exactly how I feel & i don't think it will work. The only woman getting positive press is Emily & Caity when she was around, that's it. I look forward to this failure, so they can concentrate on what actually works.

[statsgirl]

I think for many people it will be too fast but there will also be many who either don't care because they're in it for Oliver and Ra's, or people will be happy she's become the Black Canary like her comic book destiny.

 

From the IGN interview.  Posted here because my reaction is bitterness rather than media or the character of Laurel:

 

Cassidy: Before I get into all that, the one thing I will say is the thing that’s great about our show and television is anything can happen. So maybe she’s not dead. Who knows? The thing that I love so much is that our show, it takes place in different time periods. So everyone’s like, “Oh, Caity Lotz, she’s not going to be around” and I was like, "Actually she is." We do flashbacks. You never know what can happen. There’s dream sequences, there’s all these cool things that our writers and producers can come up with. Sara is a huge part of the season and Laurel’s journey.

 I know, but it always hits me again. Zero empathy.  Does she really think that flashbacks watching Sara grow into an awesome Canary or seeing her in Laurel's dreams is going to take away the bitterness that now she's dead so Laurel can have her leathers and mask?

 

 

Initially when I went to the CW and Greg Berlanti, and Marc [Guggenheim], and Andrew [Kreisberg], I had said to them I really, really wanted to do an action show. Obviously, that’s came about and with the chance of possibly turning into a superhero, I was like, "Great!"

Does she think they created the show for her?  Maybe that explains her delusions of Laurel and Oliver/Laurel.  (Hopefully she's not right and she isn't that important that they would create for her, or even the character, for her.)

 

 

Our writers have an idea that they’ve talked to me about and I think they’re genius. If they see this article, don’t get ahead of yourselves. I’m not blowing smoke, but I do think that the idea they’ve come up with, they’re so smart and they’re so good at what they do... I have a feeling there’s a genius plan that’s going to happen if they go with what they’ve pitched me. he words "the writers plan for Laurel" and "genius plan" do not belong in the same universe.

The words "the writers plan for Laurel" and "genius plan" do not belong in the same universe.

Edited October 15, 2014 by statsgirl

[Danny Franks]

This is a really good point. I really do feel like the throw-everything-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks way of writing Laurel is because the EPs hope some day one thing they try will strike a positive note from ONE pro critic and they'll feel validated by that single review and go LOOKIE WE DID IT.

 

If it was the last ditch attempt to make her relevant, wouldn't it be even worse? That they sacrificed Sara in a final attempt to get anyone to give a shit about Laurel, and now they've lost a character who was pretty great, and haven't even been able to replace her with one that's shitty?

 

No, I think it's more likely that, when this latest version of Laurel fails, they'll just come up with something else to try and push her into the affections of the audience. She's still got two parents to be killed, for starters. There are other characters who can be turned into Laurel-props, if necessary. She can be Felicity's bestest  bud, Oliver can fall madly in love with her again, she could babysit for Diggle's kid. The possibilities are endless! None of them will work, but I doubt the producers will ever accept that.

 

The time to get rid of her was last season, when it became clear that Sara was the character they envisioned Laurel becoming, and Laurel herself was so superfluous she wasn't even in some episodes, and no one even noticed.

[Kymmi]

All of these KC interviews are leading me to camp out in the Bitterness thread permanently.  I am seriously rage-y about all of this.  I shouldn't take what she says too seriously, I've seen that from the past.  But I can't help but think she's working off an outline the writers/EPs have given her and I hate the sound of it.  

[writersblock51]

 

But I can't help but think she's working off an outline the writers/EPs have given her and I hate the sound of it.

 

The problem is that, yet again, some of what she's said is in direct contradiction to what the EPs and SA have said.

 

Laurel & Oliver: OTP - per SA, that ship has sailed. Friends? Fine. But 'soulmates' implies an intimacy that will not be happening again, if we're to believe SA (this is independent of his future with Felicity, too)

 

Laurel & Oliver: BFFs - I can't be bothered to find links but SA and Oliver have repeated referred to Tommy has his best friend.  Laurel has never been referred as that by anyone but KC in this interview

 

Sara's Dead or Dead-Dead: per MG, the day after the premiere, said, sorry, but she's dead dead. They never said that about Malcolm (though i'm not sure anyone even thought to ask him or the other EPs about how dead is Malcolm really? once the S1 finale aired.... silly us!). 

KC's comments are one of 3 things: 1) she's teasing/trolling, 2) she's stupid or 3) she's cruel

 

The frequency with which she pulls all focus onto how everyone views Laurel is perplexing - is she trying to convince us, herself, etc that Laurel really is as strong, brave and impressive as she wants to believe?

 

She also keeps saying how Laurel is strong and a fighter.  Where the hell was any of that last season?  There were glimpses in S1 but really, these are not adjectives I would ever attribute to her.  Manipulative, self destructive, and unaccountable?  Yes, check, check and check.

Edited October 15, 2014 by writersblock51

[blixie]

As someone who likes Katie Cassidy, but is still critical of her performance,  and is mostly just confounded by the horrible writing for Laurel I find  myself more bitter about the notion of Insta Canary than I am about actually seeing them write for her. In all the things they have attempted not a once have they tried THAT, instead of writing lazy inconsistent, mind bogglingly bizarre story for her, try actually thinking about who she is supposed to be, how she is going to get to the places you want her to go. I am actually interested in seeing what KC would do with actaully good writing, and I want to see Laurel *become* Canary, I want to *see* Laurel *earn* being Black Canary. I don't want to just hear it in interiews as a way to concede what you know is the issue without actually SHOWING us the evidence that you know it can't happen over night. That Laurel has to put in the YEARS of training to really run with Team Arrow.

 

 

I really hope this is a last ditch effort to make her work & or to meet contractual obligations.

 

I hope it is too, and I'm weirdly zen about  it, I really do think AK/MG/GB, and lord knows the entire marketing department seems to grok Laurel is a Problem, so I find myself not particularly worried about either tact for BC: slow and low or quick and fast, I think Laurel on the periphery is going to be the status quo, until they see some kind of turn around/validation in the reviews/social media/bottom line. But the only hope they have of winning anyone over is to write it well, and to write it to Katie Cassidy's strengths. I think that's why I was actually excited by this comment:

 

 

 

Is no one in the show going to comment on the fact that she starts dressing like her dead sister? Starts fighting like her dead sister? And dyes her hair blonde like her dead sister?

Sounds like a case of Single White Female too me. Someone call the psych ward.

 

I can totally get behind an edgy unhinged Laurel, I've always wanted to see her go dark, but even a little crazy now and then is better than the typical angst/do goodery stuff they've wanted to package her as so far. If the show just went right at it Laurel SWF's Sara's life, and tied it back into her sense of betrayal about Sara having stolen *her* life. Yeah that could work for me. 

Edited October 15, 2014 by blixie

[SonofaBiscuit]

I have a feeling that this thread is going to explode after tonight's episode.  The four(?) or so KC interviews released today lead me to believe that tonight's episode is going to be majorly Laurel heavy.  And with that realization, I am now extremely bitter.

[Sakura12]

I'm not watching tonights ep. I know Sara's dead, I don't feel like watching it shoved in my face even more having to see her body lying on a slab. I was going to see what everyones reaction is on this forum. 

Edited October 15, 2014 by Sakura12

[NumberCruncher]

Ah the DVR is a glorious invention. Don't watch Arrow without it.

[Kymmi]

As someone who likes Katie Cassidy, but is still critical of her performance,  and is mostly just confounded by the horrible writing for Laurel I find  myself more bitter about the notion of Insta Canary than I am about actually seeing them write for her. In all the things they have attempted not a once have they tried THAT, instead of writing lazy inconsistent, mind bogglingly bizarre story for her, try actually thinking about who she is supposed to be, how she is going to get to the places you want her to go. I am actually interested in seeing what KC would do with actaully good writing, and I want to see Laurel *become* Canary, I want to *see* Laurel *earn* being Black Canary. I don't want to just hear it in interiews as a way to concede what you know is the issue without actually SHOWING us the evidence that you know it can't happen over night. That Laurel has to put in the YEARS of training to really run with Team Arrow.

 

Yes - that's exactly it!  It's the instant-Canary that is driving me over the edge.  I don't care if she thinks they're soul-mates, or will end up together after she becomes Black Canary and he finalizes into Green Arrow (rather than Arrow).  What drives me crazy is how everyone will see her as a warrior.  She will train for a few weeks and then - bam! - the bestest Black Canary EVAR.  If that were the case, I think I should sign up for the "Turn You into a Superhero in a Month" class my gym MUST offer.  As someone else aptly pointed out, Mary-Sue-Canary.  I can't imagine any actor being able to overcome that kind of writing. 

[writersblock51]

Reacting to the DC Comics article that MG retweeted - my dislike for that man does not lessen one bit...

 

The key phrases that have me beyond livid about Sara's death and treatment on the show are 'comic book continuity' and 'inheritance.'

 

First - it's been discussed at length here about how the show differs often and widely from the comics.  To then base this massive decision on this excuse at this point is just infuriating.

 

Second - inheritance isn't a given for every character.  The Dark Archer, Arsenal, and whatever Thea becomes (Artemis?) - not inherited at all

 

The show can't even be bothered to tell the truth about why they killed her off. 

[Danny Franks]

Reacting to the DC Comics article that MG retweeted - my dislike for that man does not lessen one bit...

 

The key phrases that have me beyond livid about Sara's death and treatment on the show are 'comic book continuity' and 'inheritance.'

 

First - it's been discussed at length here about how the show differs often and widely from the comics.  To then base this massive decision on this excuse at this point is just infuriating.

 

Second - inheritance isn't a given for every character.  The Dark Archer, Arsenal, and whatever Thea becomes (Artemis?) - not inherited at all

 

The show can't even be bothered to tell the truth about why they killed her off. 

 

Makes no sense. They already disrespected "comic book continuity" by making Sara the Canary in the first place. Thus, anything they did from that point onward was heretical to the almighty bible that is DC continuity, that never-changing constant in the lives of Superman, Batman and friends. Oh wait, they change that shit three or four times a decade, whenever they want to rebrand and try to entice new readers. Huh, so it means fuck all, then.

 

Laurel is going to be Black Canary because the producers want her to be, they should just summon up whatever courage they have and admit it. It won't piss anyone off worse than they already are, because no one buys their BS reasoning anyway.

 

While we're at it, Thea is in breach of comic book continuity, so is Felicity, so is Diggle. Roy Harper isn't Oliver's ward, so he's all wrong as well. It's a complete strawman of an argument, and Guggenheim should be embarrassed to even be deploying it.

 

This "inheritance" argument is dumb as well. So because they came up with some motif on the island where Oliver got the hood passed down to him, and Slade took Wintergreen's mask (which Wintergreen only had as a misdirect anyway), they have to do it with Sara's identity as well? Why? Because they think it's cool?

Edited October 15, 2014 by Danny Franks

[writersblock51]

Makes no sense. They already disrespected "comic book continuity" by making Sara the Canary in the first place. Thus, anything they did from that point onward was heretical to the almighty bible that is DC continuity, that never-changing constant in the lives of Superman, Batman and friends. Oh wait, they change that shit three or four times a decade, whenever they want to rebrand and try to entice new readers. Huh, so it means fuck all, then.

 

...

 

It's a complete strawman of an argument, and Guggenheim should be embarrassed to even be deploying it.

 

Precisely.  The show has gone to pains to explain that they are NOT following the comics - they are making the best show they can.

 

As of today, all of the elements of the show that are my favorites have absolutely no business being on the show because they weren't in the comics until recently. (ETA: Beisdes Oliver and Deadshot, if he shows up again)

 

Meanwhile, Sara's BC has had a DC endorsed action figure AND Lego character on a game created and marketed.

 

There's just no way this can sit well with me.

Edited October 15, 2014 by writersblock51

[Sakura12]

No one inherited the name from anyone else. Yao Fei's name was Yao Fei, Billy Wintergreen's name was Billy Wintergreen. Neither Oliver or Slade took their names from them. The people of Starling named Oliver, the Arrow and Slade, Deathstroke. In the show they told us Sara choose her name the Canary because it meant something to her. The three of them were the first and only characters to go by those names. 

 

Sara is the Canary just like Oliver is the Arrow. Neither of them have the color their outfit in their name, nor does it change anything if they do add it. 

 

Laurel will be the first character to go by someone elses name.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Sakura12

[statsgirl]

The show can't even be bothered to tell the truth about why they killed her off. 

How can they?    The truth is either

 

A) Everyone loved Sara so much they would never have bought Laurel as the Black Canary unless we killed Sara blue dead and we're obsessed with making Laurel the Black Canary just like in the comic books we wrote;

.

or

b) It's in Katie Cassidy's contract, no matter  how badly Laurel sucks.

[Danny Franks]

Meanwhile, Sara's BC has had a DC endorsed action figure AND Lego character on a game created and marketed.

 

 

And had the endorsement of the various geeky media sites, out there. ComicBookResources, io9, Newsrama etc. They all seemed into Sara as the Canary, and DC themselves seemed fine with it.

 

The only people who weren't, it seems, were the Katie Cassidy fans, and the people who make this show.

[kdm07]

@caitylotz: Excited for some #Arrow tonight! Can't to see the great performance I saw in person, finally on screen from @MzKatieCassidy!

 

 

She's a better person than me because I wouldn't have mentioned anything Laurel-related at all (yes I'm still very, very bitter).

Edited October 15, 2014 by kdm07

[wonderwall]

She's a better person than me because I wouldn't have mentioned anything Laurel-related at all (yes I'm still very, very bitter).

She's a better person than KC who didn't even bother to tweet about CL leaving the show or the fact that Laurel is now sisterless...

[Angel12d]

Why did they have that recent interview with SA (and DR) where he said 'You can't worry about the canon…because if you cater to what people expect you are setting yourself up for failure' and then they have interviews like this?! I don't understand. It's like a complete contradiction.

 

If they have no problems treating Sara the way they have, then clearly they have no problems destroying everything else I love about the show to ensure comic book 'continuity.' Basically Felicity, Diggle and Olicity is not safe at all. I'm not here for this crap.

[Danny Franks]

Why did they have that recent interview with SA (and DR) where he said 'You can't worry about the canon…because if you cater to what people expect you are setting yourself up for failure' and then they have interviews like this?! I don't understand. It's like a complete contradiction.

 

If they have no problems treating Sara the way they have, then clearly they have no problems destroying everything else I love about the show to ensure comic book 'continuity.' Basically Felicity, Diggle and Olicity is not safe at all. I'm not here for this crap.

 

My guess is that was a (now) not-so-veiled criticism and warning to the writers, from Stephen Amell. Being slaves to source material is always a death knell for an adaptation, and I guess he's more aware of that than the professional writers. Worryingly.

[Chaser]

She could turn in the best performance of her career and I wouldn't give a damn. It probably makes me petty and bitter. I don't care.

[bravelittletoaster]

She's a better person than me because I wouldn't have mentioned anything Laurel-related at all (yes I'm still very, very bitter).

She's a way better person than me.  What a team player.  I respect that about her, even though it just kind of inadvertently stokes the fires of my discontent.

Godspeed, Caity.  I hope she lands another super hero or action role on tv.  Seems such a waste that she has that very rare skill set and also a sort of warm charm to carry a show and the producers of this one just aggressively uninterested in what she had to offer.

[Danny Franks]

She's a way better person than me.  What a team player.  I respect that about her, even though it just kind of inadvertently stokes the fires of my discontent.

Godspeed, Caity.  I hope she lands another super hero or action role on tv.  Seems such a waste that she has that very rare skill set and also a sort of warm charm to carry a show and the producers of this one just aggressively uninterested in what she had to offer.

 

How awesome would she be as Carol Danvers? Or Black Cat? Or Jessica Jones? Or Jessica Drew? Marvel should at least snap her up for one of their Netflix series.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Danny Franks

[writersblock51]

Oooooooooooooooh - Has Jessica Jones been cast yet?

[somewhereother]

 

Laurel will be the first character to go by someone elses name.

Except for Brother Blood and Vertigo. Both villains and both cases where the power is seen to lie in the mask rather than the individual.

Which does raise the question if it is about the Canary as a symbol not an alter ego - can anyone wear the mask?

[Sakura12]

I would love it if Marvel cast Caity Lotz in something of theirs. Your loss DC, you had the perfect Black Canary and you threw her in the garbage.

 

Caity's seems like a really great person, she's humble and appreciative of the show and the entire cast, including the Stunt Team. 

 

Besides having the name Oliver Queen, being an Archer and haven been shipwrecked. The show's Oliver doesn't follow Green Arrow's comic canon. Oliver never met Slade and Shado on the island and he was only the island for 1 year not five. In most comics, Oliver lost both his parents in the shipwreck. He never had a sister named Thea. He never met Felicity Smoak and Diggle didn't exist. 

 

The EP's seem to use the comics excuse when they don't feel like writing their own story. 

Edited October 15, 2014 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

Im a little confused, I just read that article and it's the writer speculating about comic continuity and inheritance, not MG.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Tangerine]

Godspeed, Caity.  I hope she lands another super hero or action role on tv.  Seems such a waste that she has that very rare skill set and also a sort of warm charm to carry a show and the producers of this one just aggressively uninterested in what she had to offer.

 

I hope she ends up on the big screen as Black Canary in the Justice League movie. That will never happen in a million years but yeah, that's how bitter I am.

[wonderwall]

I HOPE WE'RE ALL READY FOR A BUTT LOAD OF OVERACTING TODAY!!! :D :D :D 

[SleepDeprived]

I'm bitter because I'll probably need dentures once this season is over. I've been gritting and grinding my teeth in frustration so much that I just might file all my teeth down to the gums. So not a pretty sight. Heh. My dentist thanks you, show! You're making him richer!

 

Kidding. But tonight is probably the first Wednesday night that I'm deliberately not watching the show live. I usually try to clear my schedule on Wednesdays because Arrow is appointment tv, for me. Not feeling it tonight. I'm actually willingly doing overtime tonight because, even though I know I don't have a Nielsen box, I'm refusing to add to the ratings for this episode. I might even be rebellious enough to try using alternative methods to watch the show and ignore the DVR recording, too (if the FBI is reading this, I never pirate stuff--I swear!) I'll probably watch live again for next week's Diggle-centric episode. I'll be reading everyone's reactions later, though. Hope you guys are able to enjoy it, in spite of all the bitter-inducing stuff that was released.

[bravelittletoaster]

Actually if you're not a Neilsen household your DVR is going to give them more props than live viewing would.  But if you really want to fuck with them, DVR it, find some other method of watching it if you must, and then delete it unwatched after a week.  Heh.  [They track all that data and I know from a friend who works in network tv that the deleted unwatched show is the ultimate black mark.]

[Morrigan2575]

Actually if you're not a Neilsen household your DVR is going to give them more props than live viewing would. But if you really want to fuck with them, DVR it, find some other method of watching it if you must, and then delete it unwatched after a week. Heh. [They track all that data and I know from a friend who works in network tv that the deleted unwatched show is the ultimate black mark.]

Huh, I always the the DVR viewing only applied to Neilson households as well.

I've been killing shows and didn't even know it...lol.

[AnyoneButYou]

 [They track all that data and I know from a friend who works in network tv that the deleted unwatched show is the ultimate black mark.]

 

I didn't know that. I do that all the time especially with CW shows. Interesting.

 

ETA: Do you know if they keep track of scenes that get fast-forwarded? Because I do that a lot, too.

Edited October 15, 2014 by AnyoneButYou

[SonofaBiscuit]

Ha, it's good to know that about DVR viewing.  I watched live on a non-DVR TV and will let it sit unwatched on my DVR for about a week before I delete it.

 

I'm bitter because there was a massive amount of Laurel in this episode.  I'm bitter because she was in the Arrow cave giving Felicity orders.  I'm bitter because the moments where I though Felicity should be comforting Oliver were wasted on Laurel and Oliver comforting each other. 

[Chaser]

I think that's part of the reason the episode felt so off. I feel like they missed a moment somewhere between Oliver and Felicity. I get that things are in flux between them but I needed a hug at the end. They didn't even need to talk. Just something.

 

And fine, I get it Oliver and Laurel needed to comfort each other at the funeral (if it can pass for that). But why wasn't Diggle holding Felicity? I'm liking Roy and Roy/Felicity, but after Diggle's muted reaction to Felicity getting hurt. I needed something.

 

Oliver and Diggle was prefect. All the other relationships? Just off. 

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

I'm bitter because I really want to enjoy Arrow. I enjoy so much but I feel like SARA just became S3's TOD. I OD'd on OOC. 

 

It might not be as bad as TOD, but if it is happening this early what is going to happen later?

[apinknightmare]

I think that's part of the reason the episode felt so off. I feel like they missed a moment somewhere between Oliver and Felicity. I get that things are in flux between them but I needed a hug at the end. They didn't even need to talk. Just something.

 

All the other relationships? Just off. 

 

Yeah, there were a few opportunities where I thought maybe they'd put their differences aside and hug, and I hate that it didn't happen. They've blown up at each other before (and in high-stress situations, I completely understand it, regardless of how wrong it is to the core - like Felicity with her "feelings" comment, which I'm glad she apologized for right away), but yet again they're writing for plot instead of character. They need Oliver and Felicity to have emotional distance to keep them apart (contrived, contrived, contrived), but the Felicity and Oliver they've written over the past two years would've comforted each other. Oliver in his emotionally closed-off way and Felicity in her emotionally available way. I didn't even need it to be "Olicity"-like, just...something to show that they were in this together. Ugh.

 

This ep was disappointing, and if that's a love letter to Sara Lance, then...I feel sorry for these guys' wives.

Edited October 16, 2014 by apinknightmare

[bluemapleleaf]

I'm bitter because when tragedy happens you comfort the ones you love, you hang on to the ones you love. I couldn't believe Oliver and Felicity, who are the masters of touch, of contact, didn't go anywhere near each other. Sometimes you have to pick your battles and in light of Sara's death, I would have thought they would have wanted to find comfort, if only briefly in each other.

[wonderwall]

I'm bitter because when tragedy happens you comfort the ones you love, you hang on to the ones you love. I couldn't believe Oliver and Felicity, who are the masters of touch, of contact, didn't go anywhere near each other. Sometimes you have to pick your battles and in light of Sara's death, I would have thought they would have wanted to find comfort, if only briefly in each other.

You know it's funny. I was just waiting for Oliver and Felicity to have another moment after their fight... It was odd that they didn't. It was very odd indeed when that moment didn't come. 

[Chaser]

Up until that final moment with Diggle, Oliver was almost completely closed off. He had a moment with Felicity but it was too contrived. This was what I was worried about this season. 

[HighHopes]

I'm bitter because when tragedy happens you comfort the ones you love, you hang on to the ones you love. I couldn't believe Oliver and Felicity, who are the masters of touch, of contact, didn't go anywhere near each other. Sometimes you have to pick your battles and in light of Sara's death, I would have thought they would have wanted to find comfort, if only briefly in each other.

You know, I sort of kind of understand it? Oliver is still in love with Felicity, but after last week and her "no more maybes" and "I told you it would be over" I can see him being..almost scared to seek comfort in/from her? He doesn't know the lines just yet, she pulled back and I can see him letting her set them? So she was relying on Roy for comfort, so he took that has his cue and didn't go to her?

 

(i have no idea if this makes sense, It's almost 10pm and I've been up since 3:30am).

 

That being said, I still wish that we had gotten something, but I can also take his last line to Diggle as a small part of that something too.

[thuganomics85]

OK, hopping on this thread to say that, while there has been plenty of stuff that's been pissing me off, I am really, really angry over the decision to keep Quentin in the dark about Sara's death.  After everything, EVERYTHING, that happened with those two, Quentin deserved to know, and he deserved to to actually get to bury his daughter this time, if he wanted to.  Laurel taking that option away from him infuriates me something fierce.

 

And, seriously: if the excuse is that she is afraid his heart can't take it, then I have to imagine it will be even worse, once he finds out.  I usually try and avoid the blame game (I swear!), but if Quentin does meltdown because of this, I'm will put a lot of blame at Laurel's feet.

 

Sorry, but this really is pissing me off.

[apinknightmare]

You know, I sort of kind of understand it? Oliver is still in love with Felicity, but after last week and her "no more maybes" and "I told you it would be over" I can see him being..almost scared to seek comfort in/from her? He doesn't know the lines just yet, she pulled back and I can see him letting her set them? So she was relying on Roy for comfort, so he took that has his cue and didn't go to her?

 

(i have no idea if this makes sense, It's almost 10pm and I've been up since 3:30am).

 

That being said, I still wish that we had gotten something, but I can also take his last line to Diggle as a small part of that something too.

 

No, this does make perfect sense. In my heart I know that this is an awkward, difficult situation and Oliver's not really in the right mindset to think clearly about it, so he'd let Felicity guide things to see what she was comfortable with. I think i just expected more because they've always resolved things maturely (even when, in most cases, Oliver wasn't being mature). But then again there's never been a reverse I love you in the air after the heartache that accompanies something like that first date. So I also understand that it would be difficult. And yeah, Oliver took what she said to heart, so I think that's a good sign. I hope these are the angstiest episodes of the season. At first I was worried that with the mystery of Sara's killer hanging in the air it might drag down the season and make the lighter moments TOO light, but I'm actually finding that I don't really care who killed Sara. She's dead, that's all that matters to me. So show, be as light as you want, it'll be more entertaining for me that way.

OK, hopping on this thread to say that, while there has been plenty of stuff that's been pissing me off, I am really, really angry over the decision to keep Quentin in the dark about Sara's death.  After everything, EVERYTHING, that happened with those two, Quentin deserved to know, and he deserved to to actually get to bury his daughter this time, if he wanted to.  Laurel taking that option away from him infuriates me something fierce.

 

And, seriously: if the excuse is that she is afraid his heart can't take it, then I have to imagine it will be even worse, once he finds out.  I usually try and avoid the blame game (I swear!), but if Quentin does meltdown because of this, I'm will put a lot of blame at Laurel's feet.

 

Sorry, but this really is pissing me off.

 

Yeah, it was so, so shitty, the way they handled it. And...hello, what about Dinah? Is no one going to tell her?

 

How's Quentin going to find out? Is Oliver going to slip, since he's under the impression that Laurel was going to tell him? Does he still not know by mid-season?

Edited October 16, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Sakura12]

They didn't let Sara go out fighting, they threw her at a garbage dumpster, had her mask fall at Laurel's feet, stuffed her in a fridge, put her in a pine box and buried her in her old grave. As a Sara fan I did not get love letter in any of that. What I saw was Sara's gone, accept Laurel NOW!

[Carrie Ann]

Not telling Captain Lance is definitely my biggest sticking point of this episode, because as others have mentioned, it doesn't seem like his illness/injury is acute, so when will he be healthy enough to hear that his baby girl is dead? Never, that's when. It will not hurt less, or be any easier on his heart in a day, a week, a month, a year. It won't be easier with her killer identified; it won't be easier with her killer imprisoned; it won't be easier with her killer dead. It will never be easier. Sara will always be dead.

 

So I hate this, and I hate Laurel even more for doing it, and God knows I didn't need another reason to hate her. Seriously, WTF are the EPs thinking when it comes to that character? When she was whining at the burial about how Sara deserved better, it rang so hollow. I was like, "You ARE THE REASON this is happening." Not only the middle-of-the-night secret pinebox burial, but her being dead at all.

 

The only positive point is that I sort of thought Oliver was going to be the one to push for not telling Quentin, or take Laurel's side, but he seems really uncomfortable with it, so that's good I guess?

[Moya the Leviathan]

I think that's part of the reason the episode felt so off. I feel like they missed a moment somewhere between Oliver and Felicity. I get that things are in flux between them but I needed a hug at the end. They didn't even need to talk. Just something.

 

And fine, I get it Oliver and Laurel needed to comfort each other at the funeral (if it can pass for that). But why wasn't Diggle holding Felicity? I'm liking Roy and Roy/Felicity, but after Diggle's muted reaction to Felicity getting hurt. I needed something.

 

Diggle needs to be channeling Leroy Jethro Gibbs on this matter.  Oliver needs a big ole headslap and a growly "Fix it or I will fix you"  from Diggle.  There needs to be a training session where Roy and Diggle actually coordinate an effective two-man attack.  

[Happy Harpy]

I'm so bitter it isn't even funny. I can't imagine how bitter I'd be if I had watched the episode instead of reading about it. The worst being that it confirms everything I feared from the moment Sara hit the ground.

 

I now have the feeling that the writers indulged their audience for a season and a half, thinking that people would come around re:Laurel, eventually. And since it didn't happen, they choose to destroy the audience's favorite toys so people have no choice but play with their Barbie Canary.

I'm now quite certain that K.Cassidy only says aloud what the writers whisper in her ears, while they're bullshitting the audience with their mock respect for Sara, mock interest for Diggle and Team Arrow, and mock commitment to Oliver/Felicity.

And since bitter is only fun for a short while, it will be without me.