OUAT vs. Other Fairy Tales: Compare & Contrast

[myril]

I saw the movie "Maleficent" with Angelina Jolie this summer. It was disturbing. But well done.

ETA: ok I didn't see it with Angela. Should've written starring...

 

Pfff, and here I thought I finally knew someone who could try to get me a date with Angelina. Too bad ;-)

 

The movie had some great story potential, but could have been a lot better if they hadn't made Robert Stromberg director. He might know plenty about special effects and design, the visual arts, but I felt constantly like watching a sequel or prequel of Avatar, story and characters getting drowned by CGI. But that is common phenomenon in blockbuster cinema at the moment.

[Rhetorica]

Pfff, and here I thought I finally knew someone who could try to get me a date with Angelina. Too bad ;-)

The movie had some great story potential, but could have been a lot better if they hadn't made Robert Stromberg director. He might know plenty about special effects and design, the visual arts, but I felt constantly like watching a sequel or prequel of Avatar, story and characters getting drowned by CGI. But that is common phenomenon in blockbuster cinema at the moment.

I wholeheartedly agree. Wow me with the story first, then add special effects.

[stealinghome]

That looks a little like "Grimm" to me.  I still haven't had a chance to try that show yet.  I'm not huge on crime procedurals, so maybe I'll wait 'til I can marathon it on DVD.

Grimm is up and down (says someone who herself doesn't like procedurals). There are times when it's excellent, and times when it's a total snooze. I *do* recommend the second half of the first season; that's Grimm at its best, imo.

[Minneapple]

So I'm watching SHIELD tonight, and I decided the Once writers need to contact the SHIELD writers about redemption, and remembering your characters' actions and silly things like that. Last year on SHIELD, one of the main characters was a traitor, and killed a bunch of people. Of course he happened to have been the good-looking guy who had a UST thing going on with the lead female. So there was much consternation over the summer about his inevitable redemption and how stupid it would be.

Well, guess what! The SHIELD writers remember that he's a killer! They remember that he seriously injured other members of the team and lied to them and betrayed them all. None of the characters is forgiving Ward. It's amazing. I'm so used to half-assedly "redeemed" villains like Damon Salvatore, Chuck Bass and yes, Regina, that I'm still having trouble believing in the SHIELD writers.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Minneapple

[FurryFury]

Part of the fandom's still afraid he's going to be redeemed, though, and with the shippy stuff the showrunners tweet, it's no wonder.

[KAOS Agent]

Well it's a Joss Whedon show, so they'll figure out some way to re-ensoul him and everything will be forgiven. 

[FurryFury]

AOS actually isn't Joss' show, and Angel and Spike technically weren't guilty of the stuff the demons did while possessing their bodies. With Angel, the distinction was made very clear especially.

[Hecate7]

I've never minded Cinderella so much because that was someone who was pretty well trying to make the best of an unescapable situation. She wasn't looking for a prince to take her away from it all or really expecting a fairy godmother to save her. And really all Miss Bibbity Bobbity Boo offered to do was give her a night away from it all which gave her a nice break and a bit of wish fulfillment. That the prince fell in love with her was happenstance. Disney's Snow White, on the other hand, is awful. She's living in the middle of the forest with some dwarfs singing about how someday her prince will come, but never doing anything about fixing her life on her own. Yeah, sitting around waiting for Prince Charming to show up sounds like a great idea. That he actually shows up and immediately falls for her sends a terrible message. I won't even go into how stupid she is to accept and eat food from a creepy stranger. Emma would knock that woman upside the head and tell her to get a life. I think even Mary Margaret would be embarrassed about that version of herself.

 

She's working her butt off for the dwarves. Not every woman is an astronaut. Home making is a skillset of its own, and Snow White does a lot of it. She also stays optimistic and cheerful no matter what life throws at her. She's not "sitting around" waiting for Prince Charming. She wants a prince. What's she supposed to do, stand on a street corner? Get on a computer dating site? Her whole life's not on hold because she wants a prince. Her life is on hold because she is hiding from murderers.

 

And it's the Renaissance. Talking to strangers is encouraged. Neighborliness is normal, and there are no urban legends about razor blades in apples yet, nor any stories of bizarre poisonings taking place outside the royal court. 

 

Nothing about the apple seller suggests that she's an assassin, and nobody who didn't know the spell would assume she's a shape shifter.

[Minneapple]

Part of the fandom's still afraid he's going to be redeemed, though, and with the shippy stuff the showrunners tweet, it's no wonder.

That's why I generally avoid writers on Twitter. I love hearing about the creative process, but it seems like they just want to tease fans with shippy crap and whatnot.

And yeah. I'm still a bit worried about a Woobie Not Redemption for Ward too. But so far SHIELD has handled it way better than ofher shows. Ward still seems manipulative and psychopathic. Not...broodingly romantic. Plus he just killed a guy!

I actually think Angel is a great character when it comes to an example of redemption. No matter how much good he tried to do, Angel never felt redeemed. His fight continued even as his story ended.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Minneapple

[FurryFury]

I actually think Angel is a great character when it comes to an example of redemption. No matter how much good he tried to do, Angel never felt redeemed. His fight continued even as his story ended.

 

Absolutely. Angel the show is all about redemption and the various ways it may, or may not, happen. Saying that Angel got a free pass for all the stuff Angelus did is a really simplistic view of things and kinda ticks me off, as a big fan of both the show and the character.

 

Having just watched the latest episode of Agents of SHIELD, I have to say, those scenes of Coulson laying it on Ward how they will never ever trust him and he'll never be a part of the team and the fact that even his love interest didn't spare a glance at him while he was led away felt like a breath of fresh air after the latest episode of Once. I almost wanted to imagine Regina in Ward's place and the Charmings as Coulson's team. Too bad we'll never get anything like that on this show.

[Writing Wrongs]

Trailer for new live action Cinderella:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20DF6U1HcGQ#t=116

 

I'll probably see it.

[HoodlumSheep]

Trailer for new live action Cinderella:

I'll probably see it.

Hmm...I'll probably wait to rent it. Based on the trailer it looks goodish, but probably not super amazing. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Shanna Marie]

Directed by Kenneth Branagh and with that cast (and without a lot of movies lately I've been excited about), I think I'll be building a big day out of going to see it on opening day. I'll give myself a day off work (the joy of being self-employed), walk to the neighborhood theater for a matinee and maybe even have lunch out. Ditto for Into the Woods, though I'll be out of town for opening day.

[Leia1979]

Trailer for new live action Cinderella:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20DF6U1HcGQ#t=116

 

I'll probably see it.

 

It looks like a mix of "Ever After" (the Drew Barrymore Cinderella movie) and the animated Cinderella. I didn't even recognize Hayley Atwell (Agent Carter) as Cinderella's mom. Helena Bonham Carter seems delightful as the fairy godmother.

[Rumsy4]

Ever After is one of the best twists on Cinderella. This one seems to take the more traditional route. I'll probably end up watching it on amazon or netflix.

[Camera One]

They gave already pretty much the whole plot in that trailer, didn't they LOL.  It doesn't look like they're be doing a twist on the animated movie at all.  I'm not sure if I will be able to accept Daisy from Downton Abbey as one of the ugly stepsisters since she's so nice on that show.  I also didn't like the look of that Prince.... he seemed a tad too old.  Still, it has got to be an improvement on "Once Upon a Time"'s take on Cinderella.  I still need to watch "Maleficient".

[Curio]

I also didn't like the look of that Prince.... he seemed a tad too old.

 

That would be Richard Madden, who is usually a lot hotter looking. I almost didn't recognize him at first, but yeah... whatever they did with his hair/face is not a good look for him.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Curio

[SilverShadow]

Yeah, they should have let him keep a bit of Robb Stark scruff. See the difference here. I'm kind of ridiculously excited for the movie actually. Loved Lily James on Downton, and it looks gorgeous.

[stealinghome]

I think that is a key to redemption that some writers miss very badly. Redemption isn't a one time thing. It is not one moment in time. It is a process that includes setbacks, doubts, and growing awareness for how you see yourself and others see you.... but it comes down to why they want to do it. Is it for love? Money? Reputation? Religion? Or is it because they can't stand the person they have become and need to do better to sleep easier at night.

Agreed. The key for me for a real redemption story is that the person who needs to be redeemed should NEVER feel like they have actually been redeemed. That's what Xena got so, so right, IMO. No matter how much good she did, she never felt like it was enough. That, to me, is one of the hallmarks of someone who wants to be redeemed for the RIGHT reasons.

[Camera One]

False story, but interesting, since I had never heard of that "The Princes and the Treasure" book before.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/disney-hasnt-announced-a-film-about-openly-gay-princesyet-9857866.html

[Writing Wrongs]

Live action Pan trailer:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjW1mKwNUSo#t=137

 

People are pissed about Mara playing Tiger Lily.

[HoodlumSheep]

Live action Pan trailer:

People are pissed about Mara playing Tiger Lily.

Hmmm...hugh jackman's blackbeard looks interesting. Young Hook definitely looks like an Indiana Jones (which is how they describe him). Anger over Tiger Lily is understandable.

Also, anyone keeping track of NBC's live Peter Pan? I feel horrible for saying this, but Walken didn't seem like he was putting a lot of effort into his lines? I'll have to see what he's like live I suppose.

*edited because I got Jackman's character wrong.

Edited November 25, 2014 by HoodlumSheep

[Shanna Marie]

I thought I heard that Hugh Jackman was actually playing Blackbeard, which I found amusing since there was some outcry over putting Blackbeard into Hook's story in Once Upon a Time because Blackbeard was a real person, not a storybook character, and now he's being inserted into Peter Pan. But I guess Peter Pan is based in our world. That version's Hook was actually from England, so I suppose he could have run into Blackbeard (depending on how the timelines line up).

[HoodlumSheep]

Oh whoops, sorry! I though Hugh was playing hook! Sorry! Guess i wasn't paying close enough attention! I'll fix my other post!

His character still looks interesting. Isn't Blackbeard mentioned once in Peter Pan though? Doesn't Smee mention him at some point?

Edited November 26, 2014 by HoodlumSheep

[Shanna Marie]

I thought I'd better double check, and yeah, they do have Hugh Jackman listed as Blackbeard for a movie called "Pan." Garrett Hedlund (from the TRON sequel) is playing Hook, so it looks like they're going even younger than Once Upon a Time did in casting their Hook. Hey, maybe they started a trend of making Hook young and hot (well, in this case, -ish, but I haven't seen him in character and in costume).

[Faemonic]

Isn't Blackbeard mentioned once in Peter Pan though? Doesn't Smee mention him at some point?

J.M. Barrie (author of Peter Pan) was friends with Robert Louis Stevenson (author of Treasure Island) so there was definitely a mention of Long John Silver in there as a nudgewink, but I can't remember if Blackbeard made a mention it in there too.

Garrett Hedlund (from the TRON sequel) is playing Hook, so it looks like they're going even younger than Once Upon a Time did in casting their Hook. Hey, maybe they started a trend of making Hook young and hot (well, in this case, -ish, but I haven't seen him in character and in costume).

Garett Hedlund is giving me Jason Isaacs vibes, which is good.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Faemonic

[Notwisconsin]

I figured that this very interesting article from the Guardian would be a good fit here:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/nov/12/grimm-brothers-fairytales-horror-new-translation

[kitticup]

Oh whoops, sorry! I though ahugh was playing hook! Sorry! Guess i wasn't paying close enough attention! I'll fix my other post!

His character still looks interesting. Isn't Blackbeard mentioned once in Peter Pan though? Doesn't Smee mention him at some point?

Yes Hook is described as Blackbeard's boatswain and that Bar-b-que (aka long john silver) feared him.

I saw the trailer yesterday and thought Colin would have done a better job introducing himself and carrying the princess line.

Now I wish they waited to do the Neverland arc. It kills me that one of greatest literary enemies hook and pan got so little in the Neverland arc, even though Hook is a main character.

I too am not happy that Roma is playing Tiger Lily. I am sure they could have found a woman of color to play her if they didn't want to stick to actress with names. Apparently there was a petition and the organizers only expected 5900signatures. They got 20,000.

[HoodlumSheep]

Yes Hook is described as Blackbeard's boatswain and that Bar-b-que (aka long john silver) feared him.

Thank you, It'll be interesting to see this hook's and BB's interactions, although I'll probably wait to rent it.

[Trini]

 

I thought I heard that Hugh Jackman was actually playing Blackbeard, which I found amusing since there was some outcry over putting Blackbeard into Hook's story in Once Upon a Time because Blackbeard was a real person, not a storybook character,

I don't know about this new movie, but I think the main reason Blackbeard showed up in OUAT is because he was a character in Pirates 4 --a Disney property.

[HoodlumSheep]

I don't know about this new movie, but I think the main reason Blackbeard showed up in OUAT is because he was a character in Pirates 4 --a Disney property.

Blackbeard's Ghost was Disney, and that was in '68 (I looked it up) so technically his ghost has been Disney property for a lot of years.

[Souris]

I finally got around to seeing "Maleficent" on DVD yesterday. I ... didn't really care for it. I found it very predictable, and I am so very over the trend of making the villains have some tragic backstory that excuses their villainy (in no small part because of Once's Regina story).

[KingOfHearts]

 

I finally got around to seeing "Maleficent" on DVD yesterday. I ... didn't really care for it. I found it very predictable, and I am so very over the trend of making the villains have some tragic backstory that excuses their villainy (in no small part because of Once's Regina story).

I thought the movie was fairly forgettable. Maleficent wasn't even really a villain... more like a backsliding protagonist. I totally agree it was predictable. The only highlight was Angelina Jolie's performance. Everything else was just annoying.

[Camera One]

I was randomly looking up the villain in the movie "Dumbo" since I was wondering who A&E would choose for the villain in Season 7, when I stumbled upon a description of the Disney video game "Villains' Revenge.

 

So in this video game, Jiminy Cricket is the guardian of a storybook.  He rips out some of the pages with the happy endings for fun, but the book is thus taken over by the spirit of the Disney Villains, who change the stories. So the game involves going into the storybook and correcting the stories.

 

I've never played it, but I wonder if A&E are now inspired by video games.  

 

If anything, it's good for a laugh:

Edited December 1, 2014 by Camera One

[HoodlumSheep]

Just posting here to remind people about Peter Pan Live tonight on NBC (so anyone interested in it doesn't forget)!

[Dani-Ellie]

The Sandy Duncan version of this production is the Peter Pan I grew up with. It'll be a neat bit of nostalgia, anyway!

[Rumsy4]

Christopher Walken is totally phoning it in. I'm liking the Peter Pan actress. Sadly, it's not interesting enough to keep me watching.

[HoodlumSheep]

Yeah, Christopher Walken was miscast. That's all I'm going to say. Like I don't want to sound mean or rude, because kudos to him for trying to do something outside of his comfort zone, but he's the weak link in this production. I'm enjoying the rest of it so far!

Overall I enjoyed the production!

I loved the costumes and sets; they were very colorful! I wish Smee's costume would have made him stand out more from all that red and purple.

Allison Williams did well as Peter. she hit her stride when they got to Neverland, where she managed to capture more of Peter's cockiness.

Downside: Christopher Walken, some of the music would overpower their voices, and the camera work got kind of sloppy at the end (catching the lights and other cameras in some of the frames).

I clapped for Tinkerbell!

Edited December 5, 2014 by HoodlumSheep

[Notwisconsin]

As I said in the PPL thread elsewhere on the site, the breaking the fourth wall sequence was the most mishandled. True, it was most absurd moment in the entire play, and was basically meant for the tiny kiddies attending the matinees

 

It was badly done.

[ShadowFacts]

Yeah, Christopher Walken was miscast. That's all I'm going to say. Like I don't want to sound mean or rude, because kudos to him for trying to do something outside of his comfort zone, but he's the weak link in this production. I'm enjoying the rest of it so far!

I think he was the best part of what I was able to see.  He is actually a trained dancer, so this is not that much of a stretch.  I enjoyed his take on Hook, and his casual dancing was better, to my eyes, than the overwrought pirate choreography.  But then, Christopher Walken can pretty much do no wrong as far as I'm concerned. 

 

[Serena]

They're doing two (!!) Dark and Gritty Robin Hood reboots. On bright side, they can't be worse than Once's Robin.

[HoodlumSheep]

They're doing two (!!) Dark and Gritty Robin Hood reboots. On bright side, they can't be worse than Once's Robin.

Classic Disney...isn't this the same thing that happened with The Jungle Book? I can't remember who announced they were doing that movie first.

Good luck to both companies. Makes

me wonder what A&E have in store for Robin's backstory.

[Mari]

On bright side, they can't be worse than Once's Robin.

I don't know.  I don't think we can underestimate how very much people can screw up.

 

(But I will admit they'd have to work very, very hard to be worse than Once's Robin. Very hard.)

[jhlipton]

I totes forgot about Peter Pan Live.  I think I'll cope...

 

Well it's a Joss Whedon show, so they'll figure out some way to re-ensoul him and everything will be forgiven. 

 

 

AOS actually isn't Joss' show, and Angel and Spike technically weren't guilty of the stuff the demons did while possessing their bodies. With Angel, the distinction was made very clear especially.

 

They'll re-ensoul Ward and just as everyone is welcoming him back, he'll die an unexpected (to folks who aren't Joss fans) and tragic death.

[Writing Wrongs]

Why do they usually cast women as Peter Pan?

[KAOS Agent]

This Slate article explains why a woman has traditionally been cast. The article is long, so I quoted the relevant part below.

 

"Initially, the interests of a producer, the logistics of casting, and even English law may have played a part. After that, it became tradition...[The producer] Frohman asked that, in America, the starring role of Peter be played by his protégé, Maude Adams. Frohman reasoned that a man would be wrong for the part, and if they cast a boy, the other children “would have to be scaled down in proportion.” English law prohibited the use of minors under 14 on stage after 9 p.m. So a woman it was."

[Rumsy4]

So, I finished watching the NBC Peter Pan today. It was not bad all in all. The Peter Pan actress stood out the most. She did a really good job. The Smee/Mr. Darling actor was good too. Hook was a big disappointment. It felt like a completely different, slightly bawdy (amateur) play whenever he was on-screen. It was an interesting choice to have the same actor play Smee and the father. It's usually Hook/Mr. Darling, isn't it? Although I read somewhere that the original idea has been to have the same actress play Mrs. Darling and Captain Hook.

[juice318]

I'll have to watch Peter Pan (not-so) Live on Hulu, I guess. I had to miss most of it Thursday. Christopher Walken was the best part of what I did see, next to the magnificent Kelli O'Hara. Thanks for the Buzzfeed link, XrystalPond. Now I understand the pink parasol in SNL's parody. I love watching him dance. Singing? Eh, 's ok.

 

Re casting women to play Peter Pan: I'm not sure why this is such an issue. It used to be unseemly, if not downright immoral for a woman to act on the stage, so young men played women's roles. In opera, mezzo sopranos often sing "pants roles," in other words, young male characters, the idea being that their voices resemble barely-changed male voices. Convincing? No, but it sure beats the earlier, er, um, surgical option. From a developmental standpoint, Peter's role would be too demanding for a child to play without risking permanent vocal damage performance after performance, OK, I'll get off my soapbox now. :)

Edited December 7, 2014 by juice318

[FurryFury]

They'll re-ensoul Ward and just as everyone is welcoming him back, he'll die an unexpected (to folks who aren't Joss fans) and tragic death.

 

Actually, I think by this point it's quite clear that Ward won't get his redemption. He's been called out on his shit for too many times. AoS isn't quite a good show (but quite enjoyable this season, anyway), but this is what they got right. (I actually love Ward, I just find him an effective villain and don't root for his redemption)

Edited December 7, 2014 by FurryFury

[The Cake is a Pie]

So with all this new Peter Pan talk, I've been thinking (I know) and I wonder if there is any significance that out of all the fairytales and stories they've covered so far, I think Pan is the only "hero" of a story who turned out to be a villain. Is Peter Pan a story in Henry's book? If so, does it follow the traditional version of the tale or did Henry know before being taken to Neverland that Pan was shady (ha)? He ran from the Lost Boys at first and it seemed like he knew to hide from Pan, but then he totally bought into Pan's "saving magic" BS. 

 

If Pan is in the book and wasn't shown to be a villain, does that mean that the book is fallible and therefore should not be taken as truth? And what would that mean for Regina's inane author quest? If he WAS written as a villain, then why is it so different than the mainstream version? (Other than the show writers made it that way, because plot reasons.)