S04.E03 Episode 3 2018.07.01

[Elizzikra]

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I'm tired of her always running off. 

I'm not sure she ran off of her own volition.

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Which brings me to the examples of moms in their 50s you named. They are all movie stars and celebrities! While Helen may have a comfortable life do you really see her in the same group? I don't. Sure she has a comfortable life but she's still a deeply average woman.

Well of course they are all movie stars and celebrities. How else would we know about them. Non-famous women in their 50's don't make the news when they give birth unless they are in their 80's or something.

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A woman over the age of 45 has a 2% chance of conceiving naturally.

I'm sure they won't have her conceive naturally between Vik being sick and Helen being over 50. Vik doesn't have a lot of time and as you note, Helen is unlikely to conceive naturally. I'm sure they will visit a fertility specialist. 

[Razzberry]

Maybe they should be visiting a psychiatrist instead of a fertility doc.   I can't believe Helen appears to be going along with this madness.  Sure, telling Dragon Lady was wrong, but not THAT level of wrong.   Maybe if she had run over Vic like Scotty and this was his dying wish, but even then it's still a bad idea.

[meep.meep]

15 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I'm sure they won't have her conceive naturally between Vik being sick and Helen being over 50. Vik doesn't have a lot of time and as you note, Helen is unlikely to conceive naturally. I'm sure they will visit a fertility specialist. 

Helen was visiting a fertility specialist in her last scene.  The one where she asked the woman sitting next to her who was the president when she was born.  She said Bush and Helen is probably a Johnson or Nixon. 

Having a baby is a terrible idea but Vic knows he is dying and probably soon.  He realizes his parents will have nothing to show for their sacrifices except some plaques and papers.  So he asks Helen to do the impossible.

[Elizzikra]

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Vic knows he is dying and probably soon.  He realizes his parents will have nothing to show for their sacrifices except some plaques and papers.  So he asks Helen to do the impossible.

I imagine impending death changes your perspective too. People start thinking about the legacy they are leaving behind and for Vik, he's thinking children. 

[Former Nun]

2 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

People start thinking about the legacy they are leaving behind and for Vik, he's thinking children. 

Wonder if there are some pancreatic cancer genes to pass on.

[Duke2801]

22 hours ago, DiabLOL said:

I know many and am one. Most of the people I know in this age group aren't professional models or actresses and yet I still think Maura Tierney looks very much her age except with Simpson's trout mouth desperately trying to pull up her dehydrated jowls. 

Which brings me to the examples of moms in their 50s you named. They are all movie stars and celebrities! While Helen may have a comfortable life do you really see her in the same group? I don't. Sure she has a comfortable life but she's still a deeply average woman.

That's cool.  We can agree to disagree about MT.  I think she's lovely and her figure is on point. 

As for the older moms... well I figured you don't know my cousin's step-sister or my old neighbor in Virginia, so I didn't mention them.  I listed celebrities because they are all "known." 

20 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Those women are the exception rather than the rule. A woman over the age of 45 has a 2% chance of conceiving naturally.

Well...yeah.  Hence why she's going to a fertility specialist.  I don't think the show is pretending that Helen is just going to have sex a few times and get knocked up.  They're implying it's going to be an expensive, intensive process. 

[scrb]

4 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I imagine impending death changes your perspective too. People start thinking about the legacy they are leaving behind and for Vik, he's thinking children. 

He won't get to know the kids, nor will they.  They'll be missing a father.

[Lozu68]

On 7/2/2018 at 5:37 PM, RedheadZombie said:

The writers are ignoring the history of the show, and it's only in it's fourth season!  This very episode (or maybe the last?) it was mentioned that Helen was married to Noah for 25 years.  She was already divorced when 6 y/o Joanie was conceived.  So Helen married Noah more than 30 years ago.  Add to it that they married after college, and Helen is comfortably in her fifth decade. 

The only way the story will make sense is if Helen had not already entered menopause, and she uses a donor egg.  This is still on a time table in which Vik could be dead before Helen even conceives.  The storyline is insane.  Helen is already struggling with imagined earthquakes, and it would be a disaster to add the hormonal treatment.  I'm guessing the point is a Helen breakdown, and maybe they don't want the audience to be too sad that Vik is dying.

And how does such a young woman, who apparently devotes her life to yoga and alcohol, afford a multi-million dollar pad in that area?  I know it's a minor issue, but I wish they had at least mentioned that she's from family money.  When the writing is unworthy, it turns the small plot holes into craters.

I thought Vik and Helen alluded to the neighbor as being the daughter of someone famous? 

[Lozu68]

On 7/3/2018 at 5:09 AM, scrb said:

That was suppose to be her getting off?

 

I can't decide if the writers are clueless or brilliant.  Sierra, Dr. Keaton and the teacher at the Compton school name dropping Stanford are walking cliches of what the rest of the country thinks of California kookieness.

Now is it that they only know to trade on cliches or are they saying Helen and Noah have these stereotypes of California people because they're from the East Coast?

Yeah if Vik wanted children, he shouldn't have shacked up with Mrs. Robinson.  No matter what her age is suppose to be, she has two kids who are college-age or even older.  Looked like Helen went to some fertility specialist at the end, though why would a millennial be in the same doctors waiting room?

Um...couples in their 20’s and 30’s can suffer from infertility too. It’s not just an “old persons” disease. 

(Btdt at age 26. Luckily, the younger you are (particularly the woman) the more likely fertility treatment is to work. 

I think Helen will be out of luck on this.

[Lozu68]

8 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Helen was visiting a fertility specialist in her last scene.  The one where she asked the woman sitting next to her who was the president when she was born.  She said Bush and Helen is probably a Johnson or Nixon. 

Having a baby is a terrible idea but Vic knows he is dying and probably soon.  He realizes his parents will have nothing to show for their sacrifices except some plaques and papers.  So he asks Helen to do the impossible.

It’s really a crappy request...he’s a doctor...he HAS to know this will not come about just from a few thrusts on the kitchen counter!? Fertility treatment involves a lot of invasive testing, the medications used are all self administered by needles, and if pregnancy is achieved, some injections are prescribed through the first trimester. It’s a huge ordeal...and that’s only the getting pregnant part! I know Vik was overcome with his mortality staring him in the face...but still, an overwhelmingly shitty thing to ask if someone you care about! 

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 6:34 PM, CarolMK said:

Are we supposed to think that Helen is in her late 40s? I can't quite remember the timeline of this show, but I thought in season 1, she and Noah married right after college, say age 22. It's now supposed to be 6 years later since the original affair with Allison started or is it longer than that? I still wonder how old Vic is supposed to be. Younger than Helen, but I'm not sure by how much. 

Getting new love interests for Allison and for Noah is just going to make the whole series even more confusing. By the way, is this supposed to be the final season? Are Noah's two oldest kids going to make an appearance at some point?

I beg you, no.  Whitney has been a shrieking diva since the first episode, and the actress seriously bugs with her OTT acting along with her extreme body language.  Martin had some sweet moments last season, but he's really as dour and negative as his mother.

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 8:12 PM, chocolatine said:

Those women are the exception rather than the rule. A woman over the age of 45 has a 2% chance of conceiving naturally.

It can be a very confusing topic.  Regarding Meghan Markle's marriage at 36, plenty of people are claiming she's going to take a year or two to settle in, and only then will she begin trying to get pregnant.  Point out her age, and everyone mentions their aunt who was knocked up without even trying, with her fifth child at the age of 46.   Someone else talks that their mother miraculously had twins - children 4 and 5 - at the age of 50.   What they don't seem to realize is that women with multiple children have a much higher rate of successful pregnancies into those ages (unless they experience secondary fertility).  So Meghan Markle does not have that going for her, but Helen has had four successful pregnancies.

I think what the show is really ignoring is Helen's age.  Here's how I calculate:

Helen married Noah after college graduation - 21 or 22 y/o

Helen divorced Noah after 25 years of marriage - 46 or 47 y/o

Divorce was completed by the time 6 y/o Joanie was conceived - Helen is now 53 to 54 - minimal

Average age of menopause - 51 years.  Helen's true challenge is she's at the very least peri-menopausal or full on menopausal.  That can be helped by hormonal treatments and a donor egg, but that's an emotional rollercoaster for the mother.  If Vik doesn't realize that Helen is already falling apart, he's either a moron or a selfish narcissist.  Who wants to be a single mother to that man's genes?  And possibly having a mini-Dragon Lady . . . no thanks.  Plus, Helen's own bio kids are dramatic divas - Vik's dragon lady genes could possibly be even worse.

[suomi]

4 hours ago, Lozu68 said:

I thought Vik and Helen alluded to the neighbor as being the daughter of someone famous? 

I caught the end of some reference to the neighbor that ended with Helen saying, "Michelle Pfeiffer?" Whether in regard to parentage or resemblance, I thought "WTF?" 

[bilgistic]

She asked Vik if he thought/agreed that the neighbor looks like Michelle Pfeiffer. She looked like a brunette East Asian woman in her early 20s to me, but OK, Helen. You might want to see the optometrist after you see the fertility specialist.

Edited July 6, 2018 by bilgistic

[scrb]

Wouldn't it be more likely they'd get some surrogate rather than try to get Helen pregnant?

OK Vik won't be around long to know the child and his parents are old so other than some visits here and there, they won't get close to the baby, especially if it means Helen has to put up with being in contact with Priya all the time.

That should go into Helen's calculus, that she'd have to be around Priya for decades more, even after Vik is gone.

Run away!

[suomi]

4 hours ago, scrb said:

Wouldn't it be more likely they'd get some surrogate rather than try to get Helen pregnant?

OK Vik won't be around long to know the child and his parents are old so other than some visits here and there, they won't get close to the baby, especially if it means Helen has to put up with being in contact with Priya all the time.

At this point, with how warped reality is becoming on this show ... Luisa.

[Elizzikra]

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Plus, Helen's own bio kids are dramatic divas

I like the younger two and Stacy looks exactly like Whitney, so casting win there...

[LuvMyShows]

Oops...wrong show.

Edited July 6, 2018 by LuvMyShows
posted in wrong show thread

[Trillian]

21 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

It can be a very confusing topic. 

Average age of menopause - 51 years.  Helen's true challenge is she's at the very least peri-menopausal or full on menopausal.  That can be helped by hormonal treatments and a donor egg, but that's an emotional rollercoaster for the mother.  If Vik doesn't realize that Helen is already falling apart, he's either a moron or a selfish narcissist.  Who wants to be a single mother to that man's genes?  And possibly having a mini-Dragon Lady . . . no thanks.  Plus, Helen's own bio kids are dramatic divas - Vik's dragon lady genes could possibly be even worse.

I hit menopause at 42. Two years younger than the age at which my maternal grandmother gave birth to her 6th. My gynaecologist pronounced it “early but not abnormally so”.  On top of that, my chances of conceiving with reproductive technology dropped to 2% a few years before that when the very best of them saw it coming, through daily blood tests and other, more invasive, tests.  Every woman is different, but this myth of popping out kids into one’s 50s is th exception, not the rule. 

[RedheadZombie]

12 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I like the younger two and Stacy looks exactly like Whitney, so casting win there...

Trevor punched Noah in the nose a season or two ago.  I'm sure everyone thinks he deserved it but it also showed a violent child with poor impulse control. 

Not that I blamed the kid.  His dad is suddenly absent for a large part of his life, and his mother throws things at you and laughs when she hits the target.  Noah was sneaking around with Alison and Helen's banging Vik in the basement.

Trevor has settled down - I'm sure Saint Vik will get the credit.  Stacey's okay and I love her passion for human rights, but she will be dead to me if she's a second Whitney. 

19 hours ago, scrb said:

Wouldn't it be more likely they'd get some surrogate rather than try to get Helen pregnant?

OK Vik won't be around long to know the child and his parents are old so other than some visits here and there, they won't get close to the baby, especially if it means Helen has to put up with being in contact with Priya all the time.

That should go into Helen's calculus, that she'd have to be around Priya for decades more, even after Vik is gone.

Run away!

And . . . that is how Luisa gets her baby.  She's raised someone else's child before and perhaps they can catch Helen during a psychological break down, and have her sign her rights away.  

Not really, but that's what popped into my head. 

[suomi]

13 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

And . . . that is how Luisa gets her baby.  

GMTA. I see it being cumbersome, and straining credulity, but "loose threads" appears to be the clunky, creaky, predominate theme thus far - and we're only three episodes into the season.

[Gem 10]

On 7/3/2018 at 4:47 AM, mochamajesty said:

I was under the impression that the point of that scene was that Helen didn't get off only Vic did.

I saw it as a need to feel alive after receiving devestating news. 

I still think that Vic is a flaming asshole for asking for a kid. But imagine that you received the news that you had late stage pancreatic cancer. Doesn't that disease have the lowest survival rate of all cancer?  And to someone as arrogant as Vic, that must be quite a blow. All of the money, the status, cannot help him now. 

So let the man have his quickie on the counter. But I say hell no to the kid. 

Is he the only child in his family?  Maybe to carry on the name?

[Mindthinkr]

23 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Is he the only child in his family?  Maybe to carry on the name?

I think he is the only child in the family and I can understand that his parents would like a grandson to carry on the name or family legacy. I just don’t think that Helen is a good choice to do it. Her age, going through hormone therapy while he’s so ill won’t be a happy combination. Plus she may have been guilted into exploring this option but I don’t think that she would have chosen it if not for the cement shoes of guilt being put on her feet. 

If Vik wanted a family, especially one of his own, why ever did he choose Helen?  Certainly there would have been lots of younger women he could have married. Why didn’t his parents get him into a traditional arranged marriage? Something about this is off. If Helen gets pregnant and he dies, I might bow out. I couldn’t watch another season of her especially if they are going to make her character even more unhappy. 

[izabella]

25 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

If Vik wanted a family, especially one of his own, why ever did he choose Helen?  Certainly there would have been lots of younger women he could have married. Why didn’t his parents get him into a traditional arranged marriage? Something about this is off. If Helen gets pregnant and he dies, I might bow out. I couldn’t watch another season of her especially if they are going to make her character even more unhappy. 

If Vik wanted kids, he had an entire lifetime to have them.  It obviously wasn't a priority to him.  But maybe the knowledge that he would die before his parents thrust a different perspective on him. 

The other thing is, we are only seeing this from Helen's perspective.  We don't really know if Vik said what Helen could do for him is have a baby, or if he did, that he said it that way.  Helen could be feeling guilt about that, especially since Priya brought it up when she was sewing Vik's pants (or Helen remembered it that way).  Helen could be exaggerating the whole thing about a baby.  As we saw in the Cole/Allison episode, in his perspective, Allison came late to the business meeting and in her perspective she never showed up.  So maybe Vik didn't say a word about a baby.

[Gem 10]

2 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I think he is the only child in the family and I can understand that his parents would like a grandson to carry on the name or family legacy. I just don’t think that Helen is a good choice to do it. Her age, going through hormone therapy while he’s so ill won’t be a happy combination. Plus she may have been guilted into exploring this option but I don’t think that she would have chosen it if not for the cement shoes of guilt being put on her feet. 

If Vik wanted a family, especially one of his own, why ever did he choose Helen?  Certainly there would have been lots of younger women he could have married. Why didn’t his parents get him into a traditional arranged marriage? Something about this is off. If Helen gets pregnant and he dies, I might bow out. I couldn’t watch another season of her especially if they are going to make her character even more unhappy. 

Yes.  Never mind possibly wanting a heir.  I don’t know why he picked her in the first place also.  An older woman with four kids.  I’m sure he could have had a woman from the hospital.  This show has me baffled.  Certain things don’t make sense anymore.  I  am lost concerning some of the characters.  Everything is a “ mash mash”.  If it gets anymore weirder, I’m out.  P.s.  I’m not liking this his/ her perspective thing.  Very confusing.    I meant “mish/mash”.  Darn auto correct not working.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Gem 10

[Former Nun]

6 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Certain things don’t make sense anymore.

...and that has gone on for a little too long.

9 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

If Helen gets pregnant and he dies, I might bow out.

What if the writers got creative (oh wait, that's asking too much) and Helen gets pregnant and dies and Vic LIVES ???

On 7/4/2018 at 7:04 PM, Elizzikra said:

I'm not sure she ran off of her own volition.

That's an excellent theory.  After all, NO MAN can ever resist Allison.  If she's not interested, someone can just kidnap her and work hard to convince her.

[Milburn Stone]

On 7/1/2018 at 9:02 PM, preeya said:

And she actually said:  "If I were a white guy... if I were you, Noah Solloway, with your... with your looks and your credentials, nobody would give a shit about my disciplinary practices." 

UGH!!

Have we forgotten that this is Noah's version of events?

[Jax7917]

On 7/3/2018 at 6:34 PM, LilaFowler said:

I was terrified for Vik's patient that was due to have surgery that morning. Imagine your surgeon operating on you hours after he received a death sentence. No, thank you. He was obviously not thinking clearly after his diagnosis with regard to the whole baby thing. I wonder how far they'll take this because... it's a little bit lame. Maybe if we had been shown that Vik wanted a child of his own before this, or wanted to give his parents a grandchild, but this is really coming out of nowhere IMO.

Helen was totally thinking about Noah when she brought up the subject of the person she couldn't live without. Vik had just been diagnosed with terminal cancer and she's in the therapist's office thinking about her ex. I guess Noah is the love of her life or something? I still think that the show will ultimately end with the two of them back together. She didn't want to divorce him after Allison--Noah left her.

As for Noah, I can do without the Dangerous Minds story line but I suppose they have to give him something to do while he's out in CA. His life is just one adventure after another, isn't it? He can't just take a regular teaching job and have all of his days be boring like the rest of us.

I'm not actually looking forward to finding out what becomes of Allison. I'm tired of her always running off. Such a stupid character. I actually find the whole Noah/Helen dynamic interesting, and Cole/Luisa as well, which is why I keep watching. I dread the show careening off into the abyss with more Allison drama. Spare me.

I just can't stand the shows obsession with Alison . Did she give sexual favors to the prOducers in order to be shown as the one no man can live without ? Because why is she irresistible to every man ? And if the show goes on long enough , I'm sure she'll be irresistible to women too . I mean her attractiveness is subjective , but from what I read on all the posts , no one thinks she's a pretty woman . 

I also find Helen hard to look at . I don't find her to be attractive at all , but her personality makes it even worse . 

The principal wanting Noah was eyeroll worthy . He looks like a pug . Why is everyone obsessed with him ? 

I don't know if Helen and Noah will get back together even if it's at the end of the series . He might try it but he looks really over her and it doesn't look like there's any going back ., besides , im sure Alison's the love of his life because , well , she's Alison 

[scrb]

In the first season, didn't Ruth Wilson come off some movie that was a big deal?

I guess they had to attach a relative big name as one of the leads.

I'm guessing the show's audience skews mid 40s and older so they couldn't cast some twenty-something ingenue.

[Lozu68]

On 7/6/2018 at 9:21 AM, Elizzikra said:

I like the younger two and Stacy looks exactly like Whitney, so casting win there...

 

On 7/6/2018 at 9:21 AM, Elizzikra said:

I like the younger two and Stacy looks exactly like Whitney, so casting win there...

They certainly found a spot on Mini-me for Whitney, in the new Stacy.

There is a picture of Maura Tierney as a child that I’ve seen in a few old ER boards...the original Stacy looked like that picture!

Edited July 9, 2018 by Lozu68

[Lozu68]

On 7/2/2018 at 9:42 PM, Toodleoo said:

Not sure why I watch this show anymore; Helen drives me absolutely batty. I'm sure Maura Tierney is a lovely person but she portrays Helen so much like she did Abby in ER that I think Maura's just...one-note.

Helen just suuuuuuuuuuucks the life out of everyone and everything and gaaah get off my tv.

But....actors don’t get to decide how their character is portrayed...they deliver what has been written, what the directors are looking for.

Anyone who watched ER can certainly see the similarities between Abby and Helen, but I think no one else can play that kind of emotional struggle with way Maura can. She nails it. Without wailing and chewing the scenery. Sometimes it tough to watch...because it is supposed to be!

If they give her the pregnancy storyline...oh.my! 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Lozu68

[Elizzikra]

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He looks like a pug . 

Pugs are cute.

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Helen didn't get off only Vic did.

I don't think either one of them looked particularly satisfied. I thought it looked as though Vik didn't finish, but just sort of lost his mojo.

[JenE4]

22 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

 

I don't think either one of them looked particularly satisfied. I thought it looked as though Vik didn't finish, but just sort of lost his mojo.

Yeah, I thought he couldn’t perform because of the cancer. The “affair” is over and the stark reality of life—and death—are facing them.

[jenifaohjenny]

You know you can go out with your colleague and have a drink at a bar WITHOUT making out in the parking lot. Jesus Christ...this show is ridiculous! Maybe give us a bit more time to develop the relationship.

[poeticlicensed]

This show strains the boundaries of credulity, to the point of ridiculousness with each episode. 

Noah is back in the classroom, despite being fired in another school system for impropriety and being a convicted felon who was in prison for 3 years for I am assuming was manslaughter. I know it varies by state but I have a hard time believe that Noah can even get a teaching license, much less that a school board would hire him. I suppose that we are supposed to think, oh yea, it's CA and everyone is crazy anyway and it's a charter so sure, why not? I as a parent would have a really hard time sending my kid to a charter that would hire Noah. So if I can get by that fact alone, I am supposed to buy him making a move on the principal? and of course, like all women, she can't help herself but respond. One of my major beefs with Noah is that all women fall at his feet, even to their own detriment. Guaranteed that Noah and sexy principal are doing the nasty before the end of the season. And of course another layer is that Noah happens to have the Next.Great.Black.Writer/ angry young man who is brilliant in his classroom, who just happens to be the son of sad principal. How freaking cliche. And of course Noah is going to get him into Princeton magically and mom principal will totally be his. Ugh. 

As for Helen, I'm not even going to engage in speculating about the Helen's age and the possibility of her having a baby for Vik cuz he's dying. But I will say that I did appreciate it because as Vik told Helen, his parents sacrificed their lives for him. And he didn't say it, but those sacrifices are not without expectation on the part of his parents. Yes, they sacrificed. But they expect him to be brilliant at his job, give them grandchildren and probably take care of them when they are old. Vik needs to give his parents a grandchild. Which of course is a terrible idea, because he won't be around, his mom hates Helen and can you imagine the two of them trying to get along without him around? Honestly he's better off with a surrogate who will give the baby to his mom to raise. Vik's mom probably figures Helen is a passing phase and once he's over her, he will find someone acceptable to have kids with, but of course this will be derailed. 

Just a couple of observations:

What the fuck is up with this show and countertop sex? I can think of nothing more gross than prepping food on a countertop when people are regularly doing the nasty. And I love how they just straighten their clothes, zip up and off to work they go, lol. No clean up needed. 

Alex P Keaton's dad and his touchy feely therapy. Um Helen, you are clearly uncomfortable with that kind of therapy and Michael Keaton is not the only therapist in CA, so find one who has a style you like. It's not like there aren't a bazillion therapists in the greater LA area. 

[Kid]

On 7/1/2018 at 9:02 PM, preeya said:

And she actually said:  "If I were a white guy... if I were you, Noah Solloway, with your... with your looks and your credentials, nobody would give a shit about my disciplinary practices." 

UGH!!

I saw where this portion was going very early and basically fast forwarded through it to Helen’s story. Since that was about Vik,  it was actually good.

Each season just gets worse. I signed up to Showtime to watch the series.  I will not be renewing it for another month and I may not be watching the rest of The Affair.  I am not paying for propaganda. And basically, in my opinion, that is what the Noah segment of this episode was.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Kid