S03.E12 Elmsley Count 2018.06.10

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Chuck looks to strike the ultimate blow on an enemy.

[janeta]

Well, not sad Chuck got fired, but too bad it was by Jeffcoat, who's an even bigger sleaze.

So I assume this has been renewed?

[hoodooznoodooz]

I was really expecting Axe eventually to just yell, “Eff this! I’m going to use whatever pronoun I want for Taylor.”

[dwmarch]

7 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I was really expecting Axe eventually to just yell, “Eff this! I’m going to use whatever pronoun I want for Taylor.”

I think Axe has too much class to do something like that but I noticed Wags went for a gendered insult right away, calling Taylor a bitch. Bitch can certainly be a gender-neutral insult but tends to be associated more with women.

The ending scene felt earned to me. Compare for example why Brody and Carrie could possibly be working together in Season 3 of Homeland. The answer is because Brody was supposed to be killed off in the first season but the producers liked the pairing of Damien Lewis and Claire Danes so they kept contriving up plots that would force the two of them back together.

Consequences were a big theme all this season and this episode put a nice bow on it. Chuck and Axe got to where they are by stepping on the people beneath them, not realizing that those people would not necessarily stay loyal. Chuck was able to placate Sacker on the Lugo case by having her set up the war room but when he went to her father against her wishes it was a step too far and Chuck even acknowledged it at the time, saying something like "I'm glad you're on my side at this moment". Last episode he took her to dinner at the living meme restaurant. Turns out that isn't enough to overcome her objection to having her family put in danger. Dake and Connerty were both humiliated by Chuck but humiliation isn't a vanquishing and they end up turning up at the worst possible time.

As for Axe, he failed to anticipate that scooping Taylor's investment would lead to resentment, he casually used Maffee's integrity in a scheme (and although I am sure Maffee had no idea what was actually going on, he knew something was up) and he got his firm in deep with a Russian gangster. Taylor called it when talking to Wendy. Axe really does think loyalty and integrity and all of that are commodities to be bought and sold.

My heart goes out to Chuck's (former) secretary. That lady acted the hell out of the few lines she had and I could feel how devastated she was by the whole situation.

[PBSLover]

Well, that was a surprise.

I didn’t hear what Sacker said to Chuck so I will have to watch it again.

Grigor or whatever JM’s character is named, put Axe in a no-win situation so it will be interesting how he handles Taylor.

And yes, how everyone remembers how to reference Taylor is so perfect it throws me off many times.

Another messy end to a season.

It will be interesting if Malin Ackerman continues to be on the show. Was this season a blip and she will be a part of the show again going forward or is she being written off, only showing up once in a while as she did this season?

Also, I loved how Jeffcoat said that Chuck invited him into his home. Jeffcoat told Chuck he was coming to dinner - a stupid thing to point out I know but it just underlined his character to me.

Next season will be an interesting journey for both Axe and Chuck. I felt this season was a bit of stumble but @dwmarch surmised it beautifully so I assume this is what the writers were going for.

Edited June 11, 2018 by PBSLover
More thoughts

[scrb]

Grigor:  You have a problem.  Let me take care of it for you.

Axe:  No thank you, I plan to make Taylor wish she was dead.

Grigor:  In that case, I'm taking out my money and investing with Taylor.  And if you cause Taylor to lose money, then I may have to take care of you like I offered to take care of Taylor for you.

Axe:  You're a fucking asshole!

Grigor wanted to make Bobby his sock puppet apparently.

 

So both Chuck and Bobby are betrayed by their lieutenants.  Sacker is just a climber and I don't know what bug is up Connerty's ass.  Dake is the moral crusader but he'd rather see Chuck go down that Jeffcoat?  Then again, the US Attorney's office, especially in NY, is full of sharks ready to eat each other to be the one that runs for governor or mayor of NYC.

Meanwhile Taylor believe Bobby was going to dump her as soon as he got what he needed out of her.  Probably true and the way he snarled at Maffee and still denied Ben Kim a salary bump kind of proves that you can't expect loyalty from Axe.  In fact, one of the first things he had Taylor do was to tell her to fire some people who had all been with him a lot longer than Taylor.

 

Wendy goes from "let's look inward" to "destroy that bitch!" after Taylor basically decoded all of Wendy's bullshit over the years and served it back up to her, leaving her speechless in that garage.

But really, if Axe isn't paying her millions to be a glorified coach, how long would her loyalty last?  Bobby will dump her as soon as he stops wanting to fuck her.  

Don't age Wendy!

 

I don't know about Chuck and Bobby teaming up.  It feels about as finessed as a pro wrestling tag team match in which they swap partners half way through.  They'll probably succeed in getting their revenge next season but then become mortal enemies again, just as the wrestlers go back to their original partners, since simplistic morality tales are what the fans are after, both in the ring and in prestige TV dramas.

 

I'd have to see if in previous season whether they gave even the slightest hint that Bryan had it out for Chuck.  Here was this moral crusader, offering to save Taylor's soul.  When did he start believing Chuck had to go down?  Or has he been like Kate Sacker just aiming for Chuck's seat all this time?  Maybe Brutus is his favorite Shakespeare character, because that ambush was some serious Ides of March shit.  

In the man's own office!

 

Chuck has to be pretty distraught.  Not only did he invite Bobby into his home, to sit with him at his table.  

They were drinking fucking Merlot!

[Dminches]

I thought the season finale was meh.  It was so obvious that Jeffcoat was going to be in Chuck's office.  The whole entrapment story line moved way too quickly.  Too many turns to be realistic.

The parallel story line of Axe being double crossed by Taylor was also far fetched. There is more to good business than being a walking computer.

Despite all this I enjoyed the season.  Wendy emerged as an equal to Axe and Chuck.  More Wendy = good viewing.
 

[hoodooznoodooz]

7 hours ago, PBSLover said:

Well, that was a surprise.

I didn’t hear what Sacker said to Chuck so I will have to watch it again.

Grigor or whatever JM’s character is named, put Axe in a no-win situation so it will be interesting how he handles Taylor.

And yes, how everyone remembers how to reference Taylor is so perfect it throws me off many times.

Another messy end to a season.

It will be interesting if Malin Ackerman continues to be on the show. Was this season a blip and she will be a part of the show again going forward or is she being written off, only showing up once in a while as she did this season?

Also, I loved how Jeffcoat said that Chuck invited him into his home. Jeffcoat told Chuck he was coming to dinner - a stupid thing to point out I know but it just underlined his character to me.

Next season will be an interesting journey for both Axe and Chuck. I felt this season was a bit of stumble but @dwmarch surmised it beautifully so I assume this is what the writers were going for.

At least twice in this episode, and a few times throughout this season, I felt as if Billions was emulating or borrowing from The Godfather or The Sopranos or another mafia movie/TV series. 

In my HOME! Where my children come and play with their toys. 

[txhorns79]

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Wendy emerged as an equal to Axe and Chuck.  More Wendy = good viewing.
 

Honestly, I always thought Wendy was superior to both of them given the way they both fawn over her. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Grigor offering to kill Taylor had me all, WTF? You can't trust anybody in this world. How does the whole thing not collapse from all the lies, backstabbing, and double-crossing?

Young lungs indeed. Payback is a non-gender-specific dog. And Axe's biggest mistake was ever getting in bed with Grigor.

Oh, Chuck. Sigh, both he and Axe need to learn a hard lesson about fcuking over your own staff.

I think my dislike of Wendy may have now surpassed my loathing of Lara.

Axe and Chuck as pals? Be afraid, world. Be very afraid.

[doxie]

I was underwhelmed by the finale.  Very "dark."  Aren't Axe and Taylor intelligent enough to know not to get involved with Grigor?  The last scene would have been a whole lot more effective had the same scene not already been staged when the 3 of them were sitting at the table discussing the slide.  This is my favorite show on tv.  I hope it doesn't go the way of Homeland, which was excellent the first few seasons, then went downhill. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by doxie

[PBSLover]

11 hours ago, scrb said:

But really, if Axe isn't paying her millions to be a glorified coach, how long would her loyalty last?  Bobby will dump her as soon as he stops wanting to fuck her.  

Don't age Wendy!

 

I disagee.  If there is one person Bobby will never dump, it’s Wendy. Wendy was at the company even before Wags. Wendy for Axe is a best friend, someone who is never going to let him down. Even when Axe was pushing at her when Chuck was going after him, she proved her loyalty. Wags as well but Wendy has been tested and comes out on top, every time.

[CleoCaesar]

14 hours ago, scrb said:

But really, if Axe isn't paying her millions to be a glorified coach, how long would her loyalty last?  Bobby will dump her as soon as he stops wanting to fuck her.  

Don't age Wendy!

 

This is all the exact opposite of what we've been shown for 3 seasons of the Bobby/Wendy dynamic.

[txhorns79]

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I disagree.  If there is one person Bobby will never dump, it’s Wendy. Wendy was at the company even before Wags.

Indeed.  Axe was ready to go to jail (without even a thought for his own children) to protect Wendy.  She's probably the only person who he cares about to a fault. 

I will say I kind of hope Axe destroys himself trying to take down Taylor.  I feel like Axe's anger is all about ego.  I know that Taylor has hurt Axe Cap, but I don't feel like Taylor acted malevolently or that Taylor really deserves to be on the receiving end of what will be Axe's season long tantrum.

There's not much to say about Chuck's storyline.  The AG is a cartoon, and Chuck's vendetta was kind of dumb.  So Chuck doesn't like the AG's priorities, oh well.  What a normal person does in that situation is either sucks it up or resigns.  Heck, even if Chuck had taken the guy down, there would just be another new boss, just the same as the old boss.  My main point being that it was mostly a nothing storyline that ended, yet again, with Chuck just shooting himself in the foot.   

[Lemons]

It made no sense that Chuck’s colleagues would tell that racist redneck AG about setting him up.  First they were legitimate charges on himand his brother.  Second, the AG was ordering the Southern District of NY on what cases to try.  And the cases chosen were racially motivated.  Why would they want to live with that?  Stupid.  

So Axe is a shitty enough human to consider murdering Taylor.  Nice.  Wendy is starting to go down to Axe and company level instead of helping them become better people.  

16 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Honestly, I always thought Wendy was superior to both of them given the way they both fawn over her. 

I see her losing her moral compass.  Taylor was spot on in her assessment of Wendy and Wendy did not like hearing it.  

[Pop Tart]

20 hours ago, PBSLover said:

I disagee.  If there is one person Bobby will never dump, it’s Wendy. Wendy was at the company even before Wags. Wendy for Axe is a best friend, someone who is never going to let him down. Even when Axe was pushing at her when Chuck was going after him, she proved her loyalty. Wags as well but Wendy has been tested and comes out on top, every time.

It is true that Axe is loyal to Wendy and she to him and Axe and Wags have a strong connection to one another as well - though I don't see Axe going to prison for Wags, as he was willing to do for Wendy. But outside of those three, Axe has not shown lasting loyalty to anyone, not even his wife and children, so the lecture Wendy gave to Taylor about relationships being so important, more important than money, was laughably hollow.

14 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I will say I kind of hope Axe destroys himself trying to take down Taylor.  I feel like Axe's anger is all about ego.  I know that Taylor has hurt Axe Cap, but I don't feel like Taylor acted malevolently or that Taylor really deserves to be on the receiving end of what will be Axe's season long tantrum.

Axe has shown time and again that if you cross him even slightly, if you have something he wants, if he perceives you to be competition, then he comes after you, no holds barred. And yes, he had mentored Taylor and seemed to be building a stronger relationship with them, but when he came back after his loss of power (due to being under indictment), he had to prove he was still top dog and he began to act out all the power plays with Taylor. That on top of tanking Taylor's relationship with the tech guy. So, Wendy talking to Taylor, about relationships? That is not what Axe is about at all. I loved Taylor's read back at Wendy in that scene. Taylor was spot on in everything they said. Wendy has let herself sink further and further into the morass of all the unethical, illegal behaviors both Axe and Chuck have undertaken. I've been losing respect for her for a while - she used to be somewhat of a moral center for the show, she's not anymore. So that she is being so self-righteous right now? Yeah, no.

On 6/11/2018 at 1:11 AM, scrb said:

Grigor:  You have a problem.  Let me take care of it for you.

Axe:  No thank you, I plan to make Taylor wish she was dead.

Grigor:  In that case, I'm taking out my money and investing with Taylor.  And if you cause Taylor to lose money, then I may have to take care of you like I offered to take care of Taylor for you.

Axe:  You're a fucking asshole!

Grigor wanted to make Bobby his sock puppet apparently.

I didn't read it this way. I thought that initially Grigor said he'd take all his money and give it to Taylor's firm, when Axe first said no to killing Taylor. Called Axe weak because of it. But Axe argued back and talked about the ways in which he was going to destroy Taylor, so I thought that at that point Grigor conceded and was going to leave his money with Axe. I thought the threat was that Axe better not become so distracted by his revenge on Taylor that he lost any of Grigor's money. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

I didn't read it this way. I thought that initially Grigor said he'd take all his money and give it to Taylor's firm, when Axe first said no to killing Taylor. Called Axe weak because of it. But Axe argued back and talked about the ways in which he was going to destroy Taylor, so I thought that at that point Grigor conceded and was going to leave his money with Axe. I thought the threat was that Axe better not become so distracted by his revenge on Taylor that he lost any of Grigor's money. 

I read it as Grigor taking his money from Axe, and giving it to Taylor with a warning to Axe that if and when he tried to hurt Taylor, he better not do anything that causes Grigor to lose money.  I really have no idea why Taylor would even want to associate with the guy.  Grigor is a loose cannon who has no qualms about killing someone to get his way.  That's not a person with whom you want to do business.   

[scrb]

Maybe JM won't be back next season and they could just say he moved on, no longer involved.

I don't know if the character is interesting enough to continue with the story line.

Really it would change the nature of the show.  It's one thing to commit securities fraud or blackmailing people for political favors.

But introduce organized crime into the show?  It would be hard to maintain an ounce of sympathy for Axe if he crossed the line and accepted Grigor's offer or had her killed by Hall.

[AlleC17]

12 hours ago, Lemons said:

It made no sense that Chuck’s colleagues would tell that racist redneck AG about setting him up.  First they were legitimate charges on himand his brother.  Second, the AG was ordering the Southern District of NY on what cases to try.  And the cases chosen were racially motivated.  Why would they want to live with that?  Stupid.  

So Axe is a shitty enough human to consider murdering Taylor.  Nice.  Wendy is starting to go down to Axe and company level instead of helping them become better people.  

I see her losing her moral compass.  Taylor was spot on in her assessment of Wendy and Wendy did not like hearing it.  

I thought many of the characters were acting out of character.  Jeffcoat is slime.  Why would any of them side with him?  Yes, Chuck used and abused them, but to side with Jock?  I don't buy it.  Liked that Chuck got canned though.  I do not think that Chuck and Axe would side up so quickly.  Too much went on between them over the past few seasons for them to so quickly bury the hatchet.  And for Chuck to go after Taylor makes no sense.  Why?  She did some harm to Axe Cap, but certainly no lethal blow.  She is operating within the law...well she has barely started, but I bet she has more ethics than Axe.  It makes no sense for Chuck to join the lets destroy them and make them wish they were dead team, other then the writers want Chuck and Axe together.  Wendy wanting to destroy them makes no sense either.  Sure, Wendy is pissed, but to destroy Taylor?  Don't buy it.  And really Axe?  Go fuck yourself.  Too bad she took some of your clients and one staff member.  You treat a lot of people like shit (although highly compensated shit) so just go and make your company earn better profits than Taylors.  He is a vindictive asshole.  However, he at least was acting in character.   Next season will be interesting though!

[ahpny]

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Grigor or whatever JM’s character is named, put Axe in a no-win situation so it will be interesting how he handles Taylor.

Agreed. But I didn't understand his comment that he'd never work with someone wouldn't kill to keep his business (meant literally). Does he think Taylor would kill to keep his business? Did he even bother to consider that question or even directly ask Taylor hypothetically? Sadly Axe's decision seemed based on the logic that no matter how "accidental" Taylor's death could be made to seem, Axe (especially given his association with his Russian business partners) would be near the top of any list of any suspects. Axe's "no" didn't' seem to have all that much to do with - well, murder is kind of wrong, though there was at least one discussion of how whacking someone would probably make you feel bad.

[lynxfx]

This felt like two mini seasons, or two acts. The first being the criminal investigation with Chuck and Axe. The second being both men chasing their aspirations and coming to some major hurdles. 

Really wasn't sure what would happen after the first act. It was really the conclusion of the first 2 1/2 season's storyline. I liked where they took it, even if it was a bit sloppy and sometimes out of character. I actually really dug the ending, especially the "Do you really want to hear this?" Can't say I have sympathy for any of them, so might as well watch them work together trying to burn down those they felt wronged them.

I am noticing that Maggie Siff is getting the same character arc she had in Sons of Anarchy. Starts out as the moral compass and ultimately gets sucked into a darker world. Hopefully here she stays out of the kitchen.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Axe's decision seemed based on the logic that no matter how "accidental" Taylor's death could be made to seem, Axe (especially given his association with his Russian business partners) would be near the top of any list of any suspects. Axe's "no" didn't' seem to have all that much to do with - well, murder is kind of wrong, though there was at least one discussion of how whacking someone would probably make you feel bad.

I read Axe's decision as being mostly based on his concern that if he had Grigor kill someone on his behalf, Grigor would own him forever. Grigor pretty much has him by the nads as it is.

[scrb]

Yeah how would Axe destroy Taylor other than pull something like Ice Juice to tank a particular stock?

They would have to know what kind of positions Taylor has and this super algorithm is suppose to be faster and less fallible than any human.

Maybe he bribes or blackmails that nerd who developed it into sabotaging it.  You'd think Taylor would have given that guy or anyone crucial to the operations of her firm a big stake in the firm and bonuses based on how the firm performs.  So blackmail for money reasons seem highly unlikely.  Maybe the guy turns out to be a child molester or committed some other heinous crime and they can blackmail him that way.

But Axe's prime purpose is to make money and outperform everyone else at it so he could take their clients.  So maybe he does so much better than Taylor that her clients leave her for him.  After the way he hyped her up at the capital raise, describing her as the best investor he'd ever seen, that also seems unlikely.

As for Sacker and Connerty, I guess we're suppose to believe they would kiss up to Jeffcoat to move up the ladder.  Sure that's believable but Jeffcoat made Kate prosecute that racist case.  So now we're suppose to conclude that both Sacker and Connerty will compromise any principles or ideals for their careers?

Why would we want to continue to watch these characters if they don't have any kind of integrity then?

[scrb]

That's the other thing, Taylor was against Axe taking Grigor's money.

But now she is taking it for her firm.  I can see wanting a big investor to start but after she stole those other investors from Citi Field, she should slow roll the pitch to Grigor.

[chick binewski]

17 hours ago, Lemons said:

It made no sense that Chuck’s colleagues would tell that racist redneck AG about setting him up.  First they were legitimate charges on himand his brother.  Second, the AG was ordering the Southern District of NY on what cases to try.  And the cases chosen were racially motivated.  Why would they want to live with that?  Stupid.  

2

That took me out of the show as well; it really just seemed like a tacked-on twist for the end of the season. I kept waiting for Sacker to walk into Chuck's house to reveal some sort of angle.

5 hours ago, scrb said:

Maybe JM won't be back next season and they could just say he moved on, no longer involved.

I don't know if the character is interesting enough to continue with the story line.

Really it would change the nature of the show.  It's one thing to commit securities fraud or blackmailing people for political favors.

But introduce organized crime into the show?  It would be hard to maintain an ounce of sympathy for Axe if he crossed the line and accepted Grigor's offer or had her killed by Hall.

Admittedly I find Axe completely unsympathetic, and it's pretty clear he has no problem with Hall's ability to handle the wetwork. But yes, absolutely - the Russian OC thing seems completely off the rails. Axe cringes at doing business/sharing the glory with an annoying dude with dandruff but he's OK with getting into bed with a killer who's not above hurting family members and who would most definitely be able to escape the clutches of the federal government if Axe ever needed leverage?

4 hours ago, ahpny said:

Agreed. But I didn't understand his comment that he'd never work with someone wouldn't kill to keep his business (meant literally). Does he think Taylor would kill to keep his business? Did he even bother to consider that question or even directly ask Taylor hypothetically? 

 

Another thing that was beyond my understanding. Did I miss something? Grigor goes behind Axe's back to fund Taylor, then goes behind Taylor's back to suggest Axe kill Taylor? Besides a head game worthy of a General Hospital villain who controls the weather I did not get the point.

As for Wendy, my take was always that she and Axe slept together years ago and it became the source of many "We were on a break!" arguments between Axe & Lara.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Mark Cuban. Sara Blakely. If Lori Grenier and Skinnygirl Jeans (we’re not just for skinny girls! You can buy us in a size 24, but we’re not changing the name) promoter Beth Frankel show up here, I’m dropping this show. 

[edhopper]

What I see.

Axe and Chuck team up to go after Jeffcoat's cable empire, taking down Taylor with the move.

 

Another thing, do you think Wendy would still stay loyal to Bobby if she knew he considered murdering Taylor and only decided not to out of strategic reasons and not any moral compulsion?

Edited June 15, 2018 by edhopper

[TV Diva Queen]

Sorry - but Grigor using the "they" pronoun just didn't ring true to me.  He wants to kill them and yet he's PC? yeah no.   

[PBSLover]

On 6/12/2018 at 11:20 AM, txhorns79 said:

I read it as Grigor taking his money from Axe, and giving it to Taylor with a warning to Axe that if and when he tried to hurt Taylor, he better not do anything that causes Grigor to lose money.  I really have no idea why Taylor would even want to associate with the guy.  Grigor is a loose cannon who has no qualms about killing someone to get his way.  That's not a person with whom you want to do business.  

I agree. He painted Axe into a corner basically. This show is complication, on top of complication, on top of complication.

[PBSLover]

On 6/12/2018 at 5:41 PM, chick binewski said:

As for Wendy, my take was always that she and Axe slept together years ago and it became the source of many "We were on a break!" arguments between Axe & Lara.

What? The writers have never implied anything like that.

 

On 6/14/2018 at 7:24 PM, edhopper said:

Another thing, do you think Wendy would still stay loyal to Bobby if she knew he considered murdering Taylor and only decided not to out of strategic reasons and not any moral compulsion?

Axe admitted to Wendy that he accelerated Donnie Caan's death. I don’t think Axe could do anything at this point that would surprise Wendy.

Edited June 16, 2018 by PBSLover

[edhopper]

They way everyone betrayed Chuck for Jeffcoat, even though they know Jeffcoat is a corrupt asshat, makes me wonder if they are part of  longer game by Chuck.

Chuck didn't seem upset enough losing his job. Remember how the juice thing played out.

If they are still allies, he has them positioned where he needs them, including in Washington at Justice.

[EyesGlazed]

I enjoyed the hell out of this season.  But I'm not into the show's positioning Taylor and Connerty and Sacker as the bad guys to be taken down by Axe and Chuck.  Axe is an amoral predator who thinks he's superman and doesn't have to live by other people's rules.  Chuck is less interesting now that he isn't the US Attorney and, just because he's not the big cheese any more, has apparently given up caring that Axe is an amoral predator.  Taylor didn't do anything that's so terrible in the financial world; they left the firm and took clients with them.  It happens all the time.  And Connerty got blackballed because he wouldn't turn a blind eye to Chuck and Wendy's illegal behavior.  I can't hate either one of them.  And I'm not into Wendy being vengeful either, though I would watch that actress read the phone book.

I agree with other posters that it's not consistent with Sacker or Connerty's characters that they'd turn in Chuck to Jeffcoat, who makes them prosecute innocent people to pander to racist voters.  My hope is that one of the AUSAs decides to take on the role of Jeffcoat-killer, because that guy is a shitheel.

Edited June 16, 2018 by EyesGlazed

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 6/15/2018 at 10:11 AM, TV Diva Queen said:

Sorry - but Grigor using the "they" pronoun just didn't ring true to me.  He wants to kill them and yet he's PC? yeah no.   

JM slipped up once and referred to Taylor with a “she” or “her.”  I’m surprised no one caught it and edited it. 

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

JM slipped up once and referred to Taylor with a “she” or “her.”  I’m surprised no one caught it and edited it. 

It was even in the same conversation, and it was something like “she’s your property”. I assume some writer intended it to be showing us how JM really felt about the situation. “She” and “property”.

[Double A]

On 6/12/2018 at 3:13 AM, Lemons said:

On 6/11/2018 at 10:43 AM, txhorns79 said:

Honestly, I always thought Wendy was superior to both of them given the way they both fawn over her. 

I see her losing her moral compass.  Taylor was spot on in her assessment of Wendy and Wendy did not like hearing it.  

Taylor may have been right but Wendy was too. Taylor IS young and blinded by her er their intelligence and technological capabilities to see the nuanced billionaire minefield they just stepped in. Losing the relationship with Oscar is just the beginning of that soul selling journey. I can't wait for next season - I think the battles and revelations will be epic. Axe needed a worthy adversary that isn't trying to arrest him. It will be fun to watch Chuck in the private sector and sorry but Connerty and Sacker need to see what life is like without the ambivalent Chuck covering/using them. I think they are about to find out how full of sh&t the grass is on the other side. This was a fantastic season!

[Lemons]

3 hours ago, Double A said:

Taylor may have been right but Wendy was too. Taylor IS young and blinded by her er their intelligence and technological capabilities to see the nuanced billionaire minefield they just stepped in. Losing the relationship with Oscar is just the beginning of that soul selling journey. I can't wait for next season - I think the battles and revelations will be epic. Axe needed a worthy adversary that isn't trying to arrest him. It will be fun to watch Chuck in the private sector and sorry but Connerty and Sacker need to see what life is like without the ambivalent Chuck covering/using them. I think they are about to find out how full of sh&t the grass is on the other side. This was a fantastic season!

I’m happy with the new storyline.  Taylor has issues too but Wendy, with her years of experience, has less excuses than Taylor.  

Why I like chuck better than Axe is Chuck’s lies aren’t to benefit himself.  He was on the right side when he went after the Texan AG.  The guy is a sleazebag cheater, criminal, liar and racist.  Connery and Sacker will absolutely hate working under him and it will serve them right.  

On 6/15/2018 at 10:11 AM, TV Diva Queen said:

Sorry - but Grigor using the "they" pronoun just didn't ring true to me.  He wants to kill them and yet he's PC? yeah no.   

Plus since they are going all out stereotype Russian oligarch, Grigor would have contempt for someone like Taylor.  He put his money where he makes the most money, but he wouldn’t have any respect.  

[edhopper]

One thing that is starting to bug me is the infinite knowledge of pop culture that everyone seems to have. I get the writers are trying to be clever, but it's getting inane. Taylor is a millennial who seems to know more about the financial world than almost everyone else on Wall Street (which is a stretch itself) but for her to reference obscure pop culture from the decades ago just stops the show for me. It's a bit much when it is just Axe and Wags, but when Wendy and Taylor get in, it's a reference too far.

[TV Diva Queen]

5 hours ago, edhopper said:

One thing that is starting to bug me is the infinite knowledge of pop culture that everyone seems to have. I get the writers are trying to be clever, but it's getting inane. Taylor is a millennial who seems to know more about the financial world than almost everyone else on Wall Street (which is a stretch itself) but for her to reference obscure pop culture from the decades ago just stops the show for me. It's a bit much when it is just Axe and Wags, but when Wendy and Taylor get in, it's a reference too far.

I don't mind that Wendy gets into it, she's the same age as Axe and Wags, Taylor bothers me when them/they is all up in it.  (I'm sorry, but they need a difference word to describe them.  They and them are plural and already mean something else.  drives me insane)

[MaryWebGirl]

5 hours ago, edhopper said:

One thing that is starting to bug me is the infinite knowledge of pop culture that everyone seems to have. I get the writers are trying to be clever, but it's getting inane. Taylor is a millennial who seems to know more about the financial world than almost everyone else on Wall Street (which is a stretch itself) but for her to reference obscure pop culture from the decades ago just stops the show for me. It's a bit much when it is just Axe and Wags, but when Wendy and Taylor get in, it's a reference too far.

Yeah it also rings false to me based on the finance people I know. 

[edhopper]

39 minutes ago, MaryWebGirl said:

Yeah it also rings false to me based on the finance people I know. 

It also bugs me a little that Axe is so far ahead of all the other Fund billionaires. There are a lot of very smart people on Wall Street, and none are that much better than the rest. The portrayal of the other Managers as feckless is a bit too much.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the show, just nit picking.

Edited June 19, 2018 by edhopper

[PBSLover]

5 hours ago, edhopper said:

There are a lot of very smart people on Wall Street, and none are that much better than the rest. The portrayal of the other Managers as feckless is a bit too much.

Axe is the greediest bastard of them all. For him to be mad at his staff for wanting $$ is a bit ridiculous.

Also, anyone notice Spyros dancing when the band was playing? Man, that guy does uncool guy well.

Edited June 20, 2018 by PBSLover

[kieyra]

On 6/19/2018 at 9:01 AM, edhopper said:

One thing that is starting to bug me is the infinite knowledge of pop culture that everyone seems to have. I get the writers are trying to be clever, but it's getting inane. Taylor is a millennial who seems to know more about the financial world than almost everyone else on Wall Street (which is a stretch itself) but for her to reference obscure pop culture from the decades ago just stops the show for me. It's a bit much when it is just Axe and Wags, but when Wendy and Taylor get in, it's a reference too far.

Here's a rant I (new viewer who just caught up) did on the same subject when I caught up to a prior episode:

[edhopper]

Spot on kierya.

[T-Rizzal7]

Best ending to an episode or season ever IMHO. I had always hoped tha Axe and Rhodes would team up at some stage...this is getting exiting!!

[misstwpherecool]

On 6/16/2018 at 11:54 AM, edhopper said:

They way everyone betrayed Chuck for Jeffcoat, even though they know Jeffcoat is a corrupt asshat, makes me wonder if they are part of  longer game by Chuck.

Chuck didn't seem upset enough losing his job. Remember how the juice thing played out.

If they are still allies, he has them positioned where he needs them, including in Washington at Justice.

This, there was some mumbling or speaking in low tones in the beginning of the epi where Chuck met with Epstein to sign the form for the investigation/grand jury I think. Both Chuck and Axe read people pretty good and can profile their counter moves. Here I think Chuck and Axe will exploit the situation rather than plan it.

Also Brian was a little ruffled when Sacker told him the AG wanted to pursue the case he didn't want to prosecute. Looked like he was going to back off Chuck. They're probably planning something as well. 

Axe has a tougher situation because he not only has to keep people & himself out of legal trouble he has to keep them alive, safe from the Russian. I don't want to see this turn into full fledged gangster war with murder, torture etc. I understand evil Russian but as other's have mentioned Malkovich's version isn't cutting it for me as well. I think he pissed Axe's fixer off. Hope he doesn't become a red shirt here.

In order for Axe and Chuck to get out of their current situations they will have to profile and anticipate people's behavior more than ever.

Just a thought. When Chuck and Axe held their first meeting /save Wendy's butt I think his apartment tour included planting bugs, camera's etc. They could bring something like that into play if Chuck in monitoring and finds the Russian upto to something.

Edited August 21, 2018 by misstwpherecool

[l star]

On 6/19/2018 at 1:50 PM, TV Diva Queen said:

I don't mind that Wendy gets into it, she's the same age as Axe and Wags, Taylor bothers me when them/they is all up in it. 

I would find it a lot more realistic if Axe, Wendy and Wags had their own pop culture references and different groups of the traders had their own. It's everyone being on the same page that is unrealistic to me. That is partially because of the age difference but mainly because of interest differences. Axe, Wendy and Wags are longterm friends so it's not surprising that they have similar pop culture interests and references. A lot of those should go over fantasy game playing Taylor's head and vice versa. Same for the sports references, movie quotes, game and music references- everyone shouldn't get all of it.

On 6/18/2018 at 11:52 AM, Double A said:

Taylor may have been right but Wendy was too. Taylor IS young and blinded by her er their intelligence and technological capabilities to see the nuanced billionaire minefield they just stepped in. Losing the relationship with Oscar is just the beginning of that soul selling journey.

Taylor's reactions in this conversation rubbed me the wrong way. They seemed to just assume that Wendy would actually be interested in leaving with them, which tells me that they hugely misread the relationships at play. I'm just now binge-ing this series so I haven't seen what happens next, but if Taylor couldn't tell that Wendy, of anyone, was loyal to Axe way beyond the job then I can't imagine them being able to successfully navigate their own staff. They also didn't seem to expect Wendy to be angry or feel any betrayal. Taylor's reaction when pushed was no more promising than their misread to start with.

Edited May 18, 2020 by l star
Wrong pronouns

[Ottis]

On 6/23/2018 at 2:54 AM, T-Rizzal7 said:

Best ending to an episode or season ever IMHO. I had always hoped tha Axe and Rhodes would team up at some stage...this is getting exiting!!

It's the obvious plot twist - after all, where else can the show go after 3 seasons of Chuck and Axe playing Wile E Coyote and Road Runner - but I don't buy it. I don't buy the personal animosity immediately dissipates because Chuck lost his job. I also don't buy Axe or anyone else would actually consider killing Taylor.

The show has narrowed its focus. Now it is just about who beats who, instead of being about any semblance of right and wrong. Makes it much less interesting, IMO.