S01.E04: The Fever 2018.06.24

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Candy's insecurities about her appearance are heightened when she is criticized at a ball. Blanca worries when Damon and Ricky have a medical scare that threatens to tear them apart.

Promo:

[Scarlett45]

The promo looked good. Chris Meloni!(spelling), I wonder if Electra is really going to show her vulnerable side when her boyfriend expresses displeasure at her desire for surgery. She is a kept woman right? So if she goes through with it she may lose him and her lifestyle. Just damn. Having to wonder if he loves her for her or because she is trans?

[Sile]

10 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

The promo looked good. Chris Meloni!(spelling), I wonder if Electra is really going to show her vulnerable side when her boyfriend expresses displeasure at her desire for surgery. She is a kept woman right? So if she goes through with it she may lose him and her lifestyle. Just damn. Having to wonder if he loves her for her or because she is trans?

I thought the same...although my shrieking Meloni! probably had several more exclamation points added to it.  I might not be an original fan (I've never seen WHAS), but I've loved him since I first saw him on Oz.

[Ohwell]

Chris Meloni.  Shit's about to go down!

[hoodooznoodooz]

Question: if a man is in a sexual relationship with a trans woman, do they just ignore her penis for the most part during sex? I am just wondering. Thanks!

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Question: if a man is in a sexual relationship with a trans woman, do they just ignore her penis for the most part during sex? I am just wondering. Thanks!

Assuming the transwoman has a penis I think that depends on the couple. If a transwoman has been on hormones for a length of time the penis isn’t exactly like a cis-man’s penis if that makes sense. 

For the record I am a straight cis woman who keeps herself educated as an ally- so I can speak for no one. 

[SimoneS]

Damon's dancing has crazily improved so well done setting that up, show.

Oh Pray. You are wonderful. Don't give up. I was dreading his test when the other three were negative.

Elektra's story is ruined by how bad the actress is. Is that all we get of Chris Meloni? I hope that the doctor helps Elektra, but sex reassignment surgery could still be dangerous in the 80s. The woman who defeated her and had dinner with her, now she can pass.

Candy needs to be careful. At least, Elektra was kind to her in the end. I don't know why those children stay with her, she is such a shitty mother.

Angel is just begging for trouble with Stan. He is a confused man who is unsure about his sexuality. I don't know why she is pushing him when he isn't ready.

Edited June 25, 2018 by SimoneS

[Dee]

Billy Porter continues to knock it out of the park.

[Scarlett45]

Still watching the episode, but I have to say Angel, Angel, Angel. She needs to spend some time figuring out herself. She isn’t mature or secure enough to be a mistress (not insinuating that she should inspire to be  a mistress). She WANTED to pick a fight with Stan over what?!!

 

What year is this set in? The ignorance of “you can’t get it from a woman”- WOAH. 

[SimoneS]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

What year is this set in? The ignorance of “you can’t get it from a woman”- WOAH. 

That was what most people thought for most of the 80s. At the time, "we" thought you could only get HIV if you were exposed to blood through a transfusion or shared needles or had "gay sex." Yes, the experts said that men could get HIV from women, but most people didn't really believe it, at least not until Magic Johnson admitted that he was positive and that he got the disease from a woman. Even then, there was gossip that he was secretly gay or bisexual.

Edited June 25, 2018 by SimoneS

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I was not enamored with this ep.  We had to advance several months for the various leads to face things?  No consequences for the dealer.  Damon became disciplined and committed all of a sudden?  Did Evangelista continue to offer Abundance real competition or was Elektra just waltzing off with trophy after trophy?  Far too much was assumed and unspoken.

My head was glad we got to see Pray Tell being a jerk to Candy at the ball.  My heart hated it.  It was the most important moment of the ep for me.  We caught a glimpse of the whole person.  He's not just a good guy.  

The Stan/Angel argument was certainly reasonable to depict.  I simply hated the twisted emotions coming out as they did.  Too many hours watching stoopid soaps brought me to a place thinking Pose was becoming one of them.  Man, I hope it isn't.  Reeeeeeeeeeally hope it isn't.

[Scarlett45]

10 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I was not enamored with this ep.  We had to advance several months for the various leads to face things?  No consequences for the dealer.  Damon became disciplined and committed all of a sudden?  Did Evangelista continue to offer Abundance real competition or was Elektra just waltzing off with trophy after trophy?  Far too much was assumed and unspoken.

My head was glad we got to see Pray Tell being a jerk to Candy at the ball.  My heart hated it.  It was the most important moment of the ep for me.  We caught a glimpse of the whole person.  He's not just a good guy.  

The Stan/Angel argument was certainly reasonable to depict.  I simply hated the twisted emotions coming out as they did.  Too many hours watching stoopid soaps brought me to a place thinking Pose was becoming one of them.  Man, I hope it isn't.  Reeeeeeeeeeally hope it isn't.

1. It seemed as if maybe the episodes are aired out of order and this is a later one?

2. The Stan/Angel argument was very complex. Angel was looking to fight because she isn’t secure that Stan wants her for her. How could she be, 1. He is married, 2. He went looking for a sex worker who was trans. Had they met in a coffee shop or an LGBT Safe space she would still be insecure (given how transwomen are often treated) but LESS so I think. 

3. I am glad we got some good vulnerability from Electra. She isn’t stupid, she knows at 40years old there’s no job security in being a kept woman. Chris Meloni’s character obviously doesn’t really love her for her if he would just dump her because of surgery! Surgery that he knows she’s wanted forever. Has she been saving her money?(outside of the surgery cash) How is she going to live with him gone?

[SHD]

Did Electra really say something like "You're not the first person I've seen go down this avenue of dum-dum"? That line made me laugh.

Just when I felt the music choices were lacking - Swing Out Sister! 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The HIV/AIDS test was a rite of passage in the 80s/90s so I loved that Pray Tell made the guys all go get tested. I suspected that the other kid in the house (the one who said he's been with men and women) would be the one to be HIV+ but I was not at all surprised when it turned out to be Pray Tell.

I agree that Angel doesn't have the right mindset to be a mistress, as we saw in the previous episode with her unrealistic expectation that she would get to spend time with Stan on Christmas. This week I thought that she really let her insecurities get to her. Once that discussion started, I knew there was really no way for Stan to come out of it without looking like the bad guy (and I say that as someone who has thought that Stan was acting pretty shady in previous episodes). No matter what he said, she was going to take it the wrong way because she was feeling so insecure and needy. I was afraid that he was going to freak out and hurt her.

I can see both sides of the Elektra/Chris Meloni situation. I fully support Elektra's decision to get the surgery. It's her body and if she feels there is something she can do to make herself feel more comfortable, than she should. It's not any worse than someone getting a nose job or a boob job and people get stuff like that done all the time without anyone blinking an eye. But on the other hand, you can't help what you're attracted to and if her sugar daddy is into her having a penis, then I understand why he doesn't want her to have the surgery. He was pretty clear and logical about that and he seemed to have given it some thought, so I give him credit for knowing what he likes. I'm not saying that he has any right to tell her what to do with her body, but I get that he knows what he's attracted to and that he's being honest about it. But I also don't think he can realistically expect her not to have this surgery just to keep him happy.

ETA: Janet Mock wrote this episode!

Edited June 25, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Scarlett45]

That’s all true @ElectricBoogaloo, but there was something in his attitude and tone that was not “I know what I’m attracted to, but of course you have to chose yourself. Best wishes. ” He spoke to her as if she were his property, reminding her of where they met and the life he “saved” her from. He never denied that he would trade her in for a younger model one day. He never once said anything about her needs  it was just “you know how I feel.”......

While I don’t doubt he cares for and enjoys Electra (you don’t sleep with someone for ten years if you don’t), but it’s off putting to see a white man treat a black woman like she’s his sexual property. When I have more time to think I may address this further in the social issues forum. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

8 hours ago, SHD said:

Did Electra really say something like "You're not the first person I've seen go down this avenue of dum-dum"? That line made me laugh.

Just when I felt the music choices were lacking - Swing Out Sister! 

I liked Electra telling Candy that usually she’s boring.

Has Candy been in previous episodes? I never noticed her before this one. I thought she was one of the best actresses. 

They are showing these episodes out of order. They showed previews of Blanca with her sister two weeks ago, I think. 

[mtlchick]

Angel "GET OUT OF MY HOUSE!" Me: "That...he's paying for you?"  

Outside of "STABLER?!", I didn't get much out of this one.  I did notice that Electra's voice is less clipped and accented when she's more vulnerable, so I guess that was an acting choice all along (which I'm not a fan of at all.) 

[SailorGirl]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

While I don’t doubt he cares for and enjoys Electra (you don’t sleep with someone for ten years if you don’t), but it’s off putting to see a white man treat a black woman like she’s his sexual property. When I have more time to think I may address this further in the social issues forum. 

He flat out said she was one of his possessions -- after she asked him what he acquired when he was in Europe. He told her and then said (paraphrasing but he specifically used the word possession in reference to her, "none of it compares to my possession here" -- meaning her. 

[latincoffee]

It was so heartbreaking to see PrayTell's reaction to his HIV test. The director gave us a glimpse when he was at the hospital with his partner in the hospital dying of AIDS. It was also scary for Damon & his boyfriend when he got that flu. 

Angel went off on her boytoy. YIKES! It must suck being someone's side piece. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by latincoffee

[SimoneS]

12 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

My head was glad we got to see Pray Tell being a jerk to Candy at the ball.  My heart hated it.  It was the most important moment of the ep for me.  We caught a glimpse of the whole person.  He's not just a good guy.  

Pray has been horrible to lots of the women walking the hall. Maybe you just noticed it because the episode focused on Candy. I still love him. He is for real. No bs or pretending with Pray.

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

That’s all true @ElectricBoogaloo, but there was something in his attitude and tone that was not “I know what I’m attracted to, but of course you have to chose yourself. Best wishes. ” He spoke to her as if she were his property, reminding her of where they met and the life he “saved” her from. He never denied that he would trade her in for a younger model one day. He never once said anything about her needs  it was just “you know how I feel.”......

While I don’t doubt he cares for and enjoys Electra (you don’t sleep with someone for ten years if you don’t), but it’s off putting to see a white man treat a black woman like she’s his sexual property. When I have more time to think I may address this further in the social issues forum. 

I agree that Dick acted like Elekra was his possession/property. This happens in all relationships where one person has more power than the other, in this case money. At least, unlike Stan, he knows what he likes and he didn't bullshit her.

Edited June 25, 2018 by SimoneS

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

It’s weird seeing Angelica Ross (Candy) play a storyline about how she doesn’t pass, because the first thing I saw her in was a web series where part of her arc was that she passed so well a straight guy hit on her at a restaurant without knowing. He was sweeter than most guys she dated, so she withheld coming out to him so she could enjoy falling for him. It was a great show. 

I also like the subtle highlight to the fact that trans women are held to a higher degree of femininity than cis women. Lots of cis women are thin and small-breasted, and nobody scrutinizes them. Insults them, yes, but their femininity isn’t questioned. Lots of runway models are even built that way. 

Who played Aphrodite Xtravaganza? She looked so familiar to me. I wonder if she’s supposed to be the expy of Venus so we no longer have to worry about Angel, or if the showrunners are going to give her the happy ending the real life Venus was denied. Either way, I worry about Angel. Between the name and who she’s modeled on, things don’t look good for her. 

[Ohwell]

I was so afraid it was going to be Lil' Papi who was going to test positive for HIV because it seemed like the camera stayed on him longer than in past episodes.  But while I was glad it wasn't him, I was gutted that it turned out to be Pray Tell.  When he was sitting in the office crying, I kept telling myself "it's just a damn show!" but I know this happens in real life.  He had me crying, too.  

I hope we haven't seen the last of Chris Meloni.

[sugarbaker design]

3 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

 

They are showing these episodes out of order. They showed previews of Blanca with her sister two weeks ago, I think. 

No they aren't.  Of course the eps are airing in order.

The previews showing Blamca and her sister were preceded with "This season on Pose".

[Ohwell]

I fear for Angel but she really is beginning to get on my nerves.  Now she's beginning to come off as a spoiled, neurotic diva, just because she's being kept now.   How the hell can you tell someone to "get out of my house" when you know someone else is paying for it?  Yeah, I know she's insecure and needy, and perhaps she needs to go back to Mother and the house mates for support.  But we all know that ain't gonna happen because she likes living in Stan's place (it is his place, Angel).  I really do think that based on previews, Stan's boss is going to be her downfall.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

38 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Pray has been horrible to lots of the women walking the hall. Maybe you just noticed it because the episode focused on Candy. I still love him. He is for real. No bs or pretending with Pray.

I agree that Dick acted like Elekra was his possession/property. This happens in all relationships where one person has more power than the other, in this case money. At least, unlike Stan, he knows what he likes and he didn't bullshit her.

And isn't that how being a kept woman works? Neither Christopher Meloni nor Stan has changed the parameters of their deal:  they pay for the apartment, etc, and the women are available to the men.  Unless the men are abusing the women, either verbally or physically, I don't see how the women can really complain.  It may not be "fair", but that's the deal, and the women appear free to leave if they are not happy.

3 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Has Candy been in previous episodes? I never noticed her before this one. I thought she was one of the best actresses. 

The House of Abundance has had 2 women and 2 men since the first episode, (not including Angel and Blanca who left.)  I happen to think that Candy is very pretty and, while less dramatic looking than Elektra, could pass just as easily.

42 minutes ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I also like the subtle highlight to the fact that trans women are held to a higher degree of femininity than cis women. Lots of cis women are thin and small-breasted, and nobody scrutinizes them. Insults them, yes, but their femininity isn’t questioned. Lots of runway models are even built that way. 

Yes. If they were really emulating runway models, they'd want to be as slim and waifish as possible, although that might not be what potential boyfriends are looking for.

[tennisgurl]

Damon's dancing really had improved so much already. That dance instructor really does know her stuff! 

I suspected that Pray would be positive, but it was still awful to see. Just keep on keeping on, your fabulousness will keep you going for at least the rest of the season! I thought it might be Pappi (you cant get HIV from women? Lord there really wasn't much knowledge at all about HIV to the general public), but when Pray went in last, I knew it would be him. I kind of wonder if when he is hosting the Ball, he kind of puts on a character. He is also flamboyant and snarky, but he seems to be a lot nicer when "off the clock" and just talking to people. 

Interesting how the trans women want to be more curvy, but a lot of real models are very skinny and built a lot like Angel and Candy. I mean, its not the 90s heroin chic era yet, but models have always run skinny. Personally, I think Candy and Angel can both pass easily. If I saw them on the street, and I bothered to think about it, I would assume they were born biologically female. 

Nice to see Elektra being more vulnerable, but she really does suck as a mother, even showing some warmth towards Candy at the end. Also, Meloni sighting! 

I still have no idea what Stan's deal is, but I dont think he is actually dangerous, at least for now. He is fascinated by Angel, but wont ever leave his family and fancy Greed is Good lifestyle. Really, Angel isnt very good at being a mistress. She has known what her relationship with Stan was like from day one, more or less, but she always gets mad when he doesn't treat her like his number one lady. Not saying none understandable feeling, and she likes him a lot and loves to be loved, but its kind of ridiculous when shes yelling at him to leave her apartment, when HE is the one paying for it! Still waiting to see where this is going.

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

And isn't that how being a kept woman works? Neither Christopher Meloni nor Stan has changed the parameters of their deal:  they pay for the apartment, etc, and the women are available to the men.  Unless the men are abusing the women, either verbally or physically, I don't see how the women can really complain.  It may not be "fair", but that's the deal, and the women appear free to leave if they are not happy.

Exactly.  Until there's shown some evidence that either guy is abusive, it's on the two women to decide how they want to live their lives. 

However, I suspect that neither one wants to give up their lifestyle, but if anyone does, I suspect it'll be Elektra because she's reached a milestone in her life--turning *gasp!* 40. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Pray has been horrible to lots of the women walking the hall. Maybe you just noticed it because the episode focused on Candy.

The verbal assault on Candy was different in type than any other to date.  It was personal.  You are correct in that he is typically vicious in his mocking of absurdity.  But, imo, Candy was taking him on personally and he brought out a new arsenal.  He did not have it in him to just mock and move forward.  Both of these things are true for me:  She had it coming and it was disturbing.  YMMV.

[Scarlett45]

16 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Exactly.  Until there's shown some evidence that either guy is abusive, it's on the two women to decide how they want to live their lives. 

However, I suspect that neither one wants to give up their lifestyle, but if anyone does, I suspect it'll be Elektra because she's reached a milestone in her life--turning *gasp!* 40. 

I don’t think that either Electra or Angel were coerced or forced into these relationships. You’re exactly right, being a “kept woman”(or man) means that you are to be differential to their needs/wants etc and you belong to them at their leisure, which is why they are supporting you. On a deeper level though I was pointing out that you cannot have a truly emotionally intimate and trusting relationship with those type of dynamics. I’m sure Electra has played mental mind games with herself that her man really does love her and value her happiness. Ummmhmmm.

But Electra isn’t unintelligent- turning 40 is a milestone if you’re a kept woman or a sex worker. Your youth was a part of your currency and that’s slipping away. She knows that she won’t be able to benefit from the arrangement in another decade OR whenever he tires of her. Another reason for her to stand on her own, choose herself and deal with the lifestyle downgrade. 

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

And isn't that how being a kept woman works? Neither Christopher Meloni nor Stan has changed the parameters of their deal:  they pay for the apartment, etc, and the women are available to the men.  Unless the men are abusing the women, either verbally or physically, I don't see how the women can really complain.  It may not be "fair", but that's the deal, and the women appear free to leave if they are not happy.

How often are people “happy” if they are viewed as long term possessions of another person? Of course thats preferential to being on the street, beaten, raped on the regular (and I am not insinuating that you don’t agree) but it’s not condusive to self actualization. Which is also why I think Electra is more accepting of the end of the arrangement. It’s been years since the horrors of dancing at that bar were in the forefront of her memory, and perhaps she is wants a relationship with more emotional depth. Now unlike Stan I don’t think Chris Meloni would do anything nutso but I think Electra really hoped he would be supportive of what she wanted (even if he didn’t like it) to demonstrate that she was MORE than a kept woman. Am I making sense?

[jzygayle]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

 

How often are people “happy” if they are viewed as long term possessions of another person? Of course thats preferential to being on the street, beaten, raped on the regular (and I am not insinuating that you don’t agree) but it’s not condusive to self actualization. Which is also why I think Electra is more accepting of the end of the arrangement. It’s been years since the horrors of dancing at that bar were in the forefront of her memory, and perhaps she is wants a relationship with more emotional depth. Now unlike Stan I don’t think Chris Meloni would do anything nutso but I think Electra really hoped he would be supportive of what she wanted (even if he didn’t like it) to demonstrate that she was MORE than a kept woman. Am I making sense?

You are, but I actually disagree.  Meloni (and I did NOT like him as STABLER!!!) has some serious acting chops and could absolutely go scary AF if the story drew him that way.  I do agree that the script doesn't seem to be heading that direction, though.

Now here's my candid admission--I don't really pay attention to who the actors are, but the doctor doing the surgery kept pinging my "You know her" radar. But not until Stabler came in did I recognize Det. Eames from L&O: Criminal Intent.

I'm kind of waiting for D'Onofrio to show up  now.

[Dee]

38 minutes ago, jzygayle said:

I'm kind of waiting for D'Onofrio to show up  now.

Keep an eye out for those table leans.

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

How often are people “happy” if they are viewed as long term possessions of another person?

But in the specific cases of Angel and Elektra, what's stopping them from removing themselves from their situation if they aren't "happy"?  Although, as I said, it looks like Elektra might do just that.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

38 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

But in the specific cases of Angel and Elektra, what's stopping them from removing themselves from their situation if they aren't "happy"?  Although, as I said, it looks like Elektra might do just that.

I don't think they are going there, but if Stan told Angel that she had to cut out the histrionics or she would be out, she could threaten to go to his wife (or job).  She actually has a fair amount of power.

[SHD]

2 hours ago, jzygayle said:

Now here's my candid admission--I don't really pay attention to who the actors are, but the doctor doing the surgery kept pinging my "You know her" radar. But not until Stabler came in did I recognize Det. Eames from L&O: Criminal Intent.

At first I thought it was Lynda Carter.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

But in the specific cases of Angel and Elektra, what's stopping them from removing themselves from their situation if they aren't "happy"?  Although, as I said, it looks like Elektra might do just that.

Nothing- I think it’s going to take Angel a few years to get to the mental place Electra is though (for a variety of reasons). She’s going to pretend she likes things this way although the relationship is fresh and she’s already tripping out. More evidence she can’t be fulfilled from something like this. But SHE has to realize that. 

[Ohwell]

51 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I don't think they are going there, but if Stan told Angel that she had to cut out the histrionics or she would be out, she could threaten to go to his wife (or job).  She actually has a fair amount of power.

I agree that Angel definitely has a fair amount of power; however, it could lead to her death.  

But she could still leave if she wanted to, assuming she doesn't threaten Stan.  I don't think he would stop her, I think he would just mope.  I think her problem is that, initially, she thought she had him whipped, but now she sees that he's either confused or having second thoughts about the relationship. 

[qtpye]

I think one of the big issues is that Angel thinks she might be in love with Stan. She called him her Prince Charming and might be looking at the relationship with very unrealistic Rose colored glasses. While Elektra is very grateful to CM's character, but does not love him and accepts the circumstance for what it is. Also, money is an important factor and it is just not only about greed. As trans women of color in the eighties, Elektra and Angel might not have access to the education and career opportunities that could afford them a comfortable life, particularly in an expensive place like New York City. They also might not have the work ethic that Blanca has to learn a trade and build themselves up. I really hope Elektra has saved up some of the money her sugar daddy has given her over the years, though it might be gone since she seems to have very high-end tastes.

[ShadowHunter]

20 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I think one of the big issues is that Angel thinks she might be in love with Stan. She called him her Prince Charming and might be looking at the relationship with very unrealistic Rose colored glasses.

Agree, and I am not trying to give Stan a pass here because what he is doing is crappy.  He is a jerk but he was honest with her. He said he was married with kids and wouldn't leave his wife.  I could be wrong but I worry she thinks he will leave them for her.   That sucks for her but truth she annoyed me more then he did. 

[planet17]

I 100% understand the relevance and importance of approaching the HIV topic given the time period and the LGBT history. That conversation between Pray Tell and Blanca showed that, when they talked about how neglected the HIV patients were, or the indifference towards finding a cure to it. However, I am not a big fan of that storylines, as important as they are. I want them to focus more on exploring unexplored topics and storylines with LGBTQs.

On another note, I love ensembles so I do want to get to know more about the other characters, and I liked getting to know more about Candy, exploring another issues trans women goes through. But honestly, right now I'm super invested in Angel and Blanca and I want to see more and more of them. It was a bummer to see so little of Blanca this week.

Indya Moore and MJ Rodriguez are the standouts of the show so far to me.

[Irlandesa]

I was expecting Lil Papi to be positive too because of the idea that you couldn't get HIV from women--but he did admit to sleeping with men as well.  Another misconception was Ricky when he said that he only bottomed liked twice and only bottoms can get HIV.

With Pray Tell being diagnosed as positive, I now feel like we're on death watch for him.  HIV is going to take someone on this show.  Of course, it could be someone else.  If Pray Tell lied, it's possible someone else did too.  We saw Pray Tell get his results, Damon get his results, the aftermath of Ricky grabbing his condoms after getting his results but we didn't see Lil Papi, did we?  We just saw him come out and say he was negative.

Angel definitely was insecure.  I wonder if she'd get to keep the apartment even if she ended things.  I know she made him pay for a year in case he changed his mind.  That was smart of her but she has a very unrealistic expectation of what being a mistress is like.  There can be affection and even love but at the end of the day, the mistress is unofficial. I think people can be happy in that position.  I think Elektra is just fine with it. But Angel won't be happy if what she wants is to be the primary partner while she will always come in second to Stan's official family.

[Guest]

Just popping in to say GOOD LORD Elektra is a terrible actress. She reads lines like an 8th grader trying to play Cruella de Vil.

Billy Porter carries everyone on this show.

It's interesting that even Angel equates liking dick (lots of talk about whose dick, what dick, where the dick was, how hard whose dick was this ep lol enough) to being gay when so much of transitioning is about how your genitals don't and shouldn't dictate your legitimacy as your desired gender. An understandable insecurity, but a weird narrative jump from "You like your wife more because she's cis and more feminine" to "you're only with me for my dick." By her logic, aren't those two statements diametrically opposed?

And a bougie 20-year-old mistress-in-training has a lot of nerve kicking her sugar daddy out of the apartment he pays for lmao I'd be worried he'd just take the keys away. Spoiled brats don't always get to keep their toys.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Guest

[latincoffee]

Is this who Angel's character is playing?

 

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

3 hours ago, latincoffee said:

Is this who Angel's character is playing?

 

 

Yes. 

 

10 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

It's interesting that even Angel equates liking dick (lots of talk about whose dick, what dick, where the dick was, how hard whose dick was this ep lol enough) to being gay when so much of transitioning is about how your genitals don't and shouldn't dictate your legitimacy as your desired gender. An understandable insecurity, but a weird narrative jump from "You like your wife more because she's cis and more feminine" to "you're only with me for my dick." By her logic, aren't those two statements diametrically opposed?

Genitals don’t make gender, but sadly a lot of people, cis and trans, still feel otherwise. Elektra hates her penis, and Angel said in the pilot that she was trying to get rid of hers. As recently as the early 00’s, Jennifer Finley Boylan referred to herself as having previously been transgender before getting bottom surgery. 

I’m not trans, so I don’t have much say in the discussion, and I have no opinion on bottom surgery, but I do think it’s sad how much time, effort, and medical intervention society expects of trans people just to be given basic decency. And how freely we treat their bodies like public property. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

Genitals don’t make gender, but sadly a lot of people, cis and trans, still feel otherwise. Elektra hates her penis, and Angel said in the pilot that she was trying to get rid of hers. As recently as the early 00’s, Jennifer Finley Boylan referred to herself as having previously been transgender before getting bottom surgery. 

I’m not trans, so I don’t have much say in the discussion, and I have no opinion on bottom surgery, but I do think it’s sad how much time, effort, and medical intervention society expects of trans people just to be given basic decency. And how freely we treat their bodies like public property. 

Excellent, and sad, point. It's gross that even current trans celebs like Laverne Cox are prodded about their genitalia in interviews.

[LittleIggy]

Guess I haven’t seen Chris Meloni in awhile. I kept trying to decide if that was him playing “Dick” (great name for him, BTW). He looks coarser in the face.

Did women really think that injected silicone would stay in one place?

Aphrodite was gorgeous. Glad she was supportive of Electra.

Aw, Pray Tell. Let me give you a hug! ?

[Guest]

I watched Janet Mock last night on The Daily Show and she said that a big part of the show was illustrating that trans characters aren't just tragic figures to suffer and be killed off to teach cis people lessons, which made me hopeful they won't straight up murder Angel even if she is channeling Venus. Maybe something dark or Stan's boss trying to attack her, but murder feels too on the nose for a show trying to subvert trans stereotypes and tragedy, especially for trans women of color.

Indya also dedicated her performance on Twitter to Naomi Hersi, a black trans woman who was recently murdered in a London hotel. Whether or not Angel makes it out of this season, the reality is still very bleak and sad.

[J-Man]

I found Damon's reaction to his illness to be quite unrealistic. By this time, AIDS / HIV had been around for a while, and someone who was living in the gay community in NY would have immediately suspected he might have it once he came down with all of those symptoms. No one in his situation could have been that naive.

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, J-Man said:

I found Damon's reaction to his illness to be quite unrealistic. By this time, AIDS / HIV had been around for a while, and someone who was living in the gay community in NY would have immediately suspected he might have it once he came down with all of those symptoms. No one in his situation could have been that naive.

I can see it. Damon is a 17year old kid who grew up in a middle/working class Black Christian home in New Jersey. I doubt HIV was ever mentioned to him before he was thrown out by his parents other than “god is punishing homosexuals”. 

How long has he been living with Blanca? 6months at most by the time line. Had he been a young man living on his own for several years I would expect differently, but he’s still very much a young guy coming into his own at this point. 

[Silly Angel]

Does little Papi the drug dealer ever walk? We never see him doing anything but hanging around the house eating Mother's food. She doesn't want drugs in the house, so what is he doing there? I may be forgetting how he came to the house.

[Ohwell]

3 hours ago, Silly Angel said:

Does little Papi the drug dealer ever walk? We never see him doing anything but hanging around the house eating Mother's food. She doesn't want drugs in the house, so what is he doing there? I may be forgetting how he came to the house.

I think he told Blanca that he worked in a restaurant, I know it's food-related because he told her he could bring food to the house.

I just remembered, he said he worked in a bodega.  Since he's supplying most (?) of the food, that's why he's always eating. 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Ohwell